Test Match Special - #40from40: Dame Cressida Dick

Episode Date: May 14, 2020

Dame Cressida Dick, the first woman to be Metropolitan Police Commissioner and self-confessed wicket-keeping disaster, joins Jonathan Agnew for a View from the Boundary in 2018.

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Boundary with the Test Match Specialty. Hello, I'm Jonathan Agnew and welcome to another classic view from the Boundary as part of our 40 from 40 series. Now, in early September 2018, England were taking on India at the Oval in the final test of a memorable summer, a match, of course, immortalised by Sir Alistair Cook's Farewell Century. The second morning of the game is in a flurry of runs as Joss Butler and Stuart Broad had helped England recover from a precarious, 181 for 7 to a much healthier, 304 for 8. And enjoying the action was someone with arguably one of the most important jobs in the country leading the biggest police force in Britain.

Dame Cressida Dick is the first woman to hold the post of Metropolitan Police Commissioner, having taken charge in 2017 and overseeing a force of over 40,000 staff. But well before her policing days, she was a wikikeeper at Oxford University. Can I start by saying I was quite definitely the worst wicket-keeper ever. It was in the days before women's cricket really took off. No, I was just so bad. Why? How? I can't even tell you some of the embarrassing things I did, but I loved it.

I really enjoyed it. It's a big statement to say you were the worst. I remember in the game between Oxford and Cambridge calling out, how's that, before I'd actually just drop the ball in a vital moment. That's quite bad. So you appealed for a catch that you hadn't taken? Exactly. I said has that and then I dropped the ball I was so excited

and we still won the match so that was important but I was really not good but I love cricket I've always enjoyed cricket did you improve I wouldn't say I did I think the high point probably I had to play when I played I've got a brother who's four years

older than me we played you know one hand one bounce and whatever else they're called tip and run all those things in the garden and then I went to a boys school essentially so I played cricket from the age of about 7 to about 12 all the time and I should think the high point was probably 12. I was best when I was 12.

But I had reasonable hand-eye coordination, and I love all sorts of sports. So when I got to college, they said, you know, would you have to go? Why did you end up keeping wicked if it was so bad? How did you keep the gloves? Apart from that one occasion, I can catch. And I enjoyed it. And I could bat a bit, and I knew the rules,

which was probably more than one or two other people knew in those days. Yeah. What was women's cricket like then at university? Oh, it was entirely fun. There were only a very few people who were at all serious about it. I played every week and thoroughly enjoyed it, but when you see how far women's cricket has come now, I haven't seen the university teams recently,

but I bet you they're very, very good. Yes. And, of course, the national teams are incredible. But it was in a very early, very early days. We're just a few sort of pioneers around, Rachel, and those sorts of people we'd heard of, but very little women's cricket. I do go back rather a long way,

Jonathan, almost as far as you, maybe, or a little bit further. I think you and I are very similarly aged actually, so we'll get on very well. We're talking now late 70s, early 80s. Talking about the same sort of eras, yeah, we will. Coming here today, I mean, it must be to escape the day job to sit and watch some cricket.

It's absolutely lovely. Perfect for you. Yeah, it's real joy. As I say, I love sport and I do love cricket. and maybe twice a year I try to get to a test match in fact this is my third visit to a test match this year I've got to two days at lords when Pakistan won and one of the Saturday of the Indian match

so I try to get to watch the test every year probably have every year since I was about 11 but it's just a lovely day out I come with friends we have a good chat enjoy the cricket and yeah I couldn't be happier and of course I've actually lived within a couple of months of the Oval all my life so I feel very familiar with the Oval

and it's very close to my headquarters so I'm sure nothing will happen today that may take me away but if it didn't it wouldn't be far ago so you're actually on call today as it were I mean you might well I suppose in a job like this you're you know they need to be able to get hold of you at 24-7 undoubtedly yeah

but I do think it's important also in a job like this to be able to relax and take time out and do what you like doing you know makes you better at doing the job makes you better at making, you know, thought through sensible decisions when you're not absolutely exhausted or you've been working all the time and you just lose your perspective. So I do try to keep fit and enjoy what I enjoy. Yeah. Why cricket, I wonder, why do I cricket puts you in that sort of more relaxed frame of mind?

The pace of it, is it? I think so. I mean, there might be a clue here in the fact that I enjoy test cricket slightly more than I enjoy, Wanda internationals, and slightly more again than I enjoy 20, which is probably unusual. I do like the fact that you just sort of sit down and there's a lovely green space and you know you're going to be entertained all day long

in a fairly kind of peaceful, peaceful way. Yeah. Have you enjoyed this today? I mean, that's what cricket does, though, doesn't it? And today, who had really thought England would get 340? All those runs scored? And that's the beauty of this game, isn't it? It really is.

And before I came in today, I went around to talk to my guys who are working here today and to the security people, and I know they keep a kind of probably lots of people do this. You know, how many runs are they going to score? A bit of a sweep stage. And there were quite a lot in the 240s and 250s. So they've done well.

Yeah, it's great. So you've got people working here today that... We do, yeah. I mean, when I look back to years and years and years ago, I think I first went to Lords in 1971, but I can't swear. I certainly went in 1974 and 5. I first went in 71 as well. So there you go.

We are of the same generation, you think. There you go. Well, look back, I was there at the first cricket World Cup final, and if you see any of the tapes of them, tons of police officers, bizarre, by today's standard security operation, in which, bless them, you know, all West Indies fans ran on in the last over, as you remember.

The blue line couldn't really stand up for them. Lily and Thompson went on running back and forth, and nobody knew what to do, and the blue line was just standing there, its arms out. I'm thinking, oh, my goodness, what are we going to do now, as far as I can see? It is so much more sophisticated now in such a sensible safety and security operation

and of course somewhere like the Oval has a fantastic I think they have hundreds and hundreds of stewards and the vast majority of working with and in the crowd is done by stewards and we only have a very few police dealing with kind of security issues, crime issues if there is any social behaviour which is unlikely of course at cricket but not impossible

if somebody's had a bit too much to drink and there'll be just a very few in the ground at any one time, more available if required, and then we'll be doing things when people are coming in and leaving and making sure that around the ground is safe and secure. You just don't really see it all going on. That's the beauty of it. So in those early days then, Cressida, who were you looking at as your cricketing heroes then?

Well, I grew up in Oxford and we used to walk to the University of Parks. Absolutely, we used to walk to the University Parks every day when I was not at school. and I met Imran Khan when I was, I think 11, maybe 12, on the boundary and my friend Ruth met Geoffrey Boycott but I'll stick with Imran if I may I think you probably replied I think you had the better option All right well there we go

And we met several of them of course But these were the ones we both became very fixed on And I actually wrote a letter to Imran Khan And you won't believe this because I haven't got the evidence now But he wrote back and said you're my first fan So that's one of my claims to fame, yeah. So then I got very, he was a student, of course, at Oxford. He was 18, I think, or 19.

And I got very keen on Pakistan. And although we didn't have a telly, when I was not at school, I would go down to any building I could find that had a telly and I would just watch. And then we started, Ruth and I started coming to cricket. So, you know, I was there. I was here when Zahi Abbas scored 200 and whatever it was. Right.

So you supported Pakistan. Marjid Khan and, you know, Saffiraz, I think, may have been playing, and the Mohammed's was in Bari, Bari, absolutely. And I've always had a soft spot for Pakistan absolutely ever since. You know, I've got the green shirt and the green cap. And it was Imran who did it? Yeah, I'm afraid of one. I suspect I'm not the only one over the years.

No, they're probably not. What did you say in the letter? You remember? I can't. I mean, it was just, you know, I wanted his autograph and I wanted to tell him I was a fan. Yeah. And he just wrote back and said, you're my first phone. It's amazing what's happened to him now, isn't it?

Extraordinary, yeah. I mean, yeah, absolutely incredible. And, you know, I don't want to get involved in Pakistan politics, but for anybody here involved in thinking about, you know, security, I work to encounter terrorism. We work really closely with all countries all over the world, and we just, you know, always want, for example, Pakistan to be as safe and secure as it can be. And, you know, it is a country that's had a lot of difficulties over the year.

years, and because we've got a big Pakistani population in the UK. There's a lot of hope in India that Imran's going to be the man that helps solve things between those two countries, though, with cricket being a bit of a link. That would be amazing. Yeah. Would be amazing. So, okay, so Pakistan then, what about their cricket? Because they're, I mean, for a Pakistan fan, it's a bit of a roller coaster, isn't it?

Oh, absolutely. I mean, at best it's, I think the word I sometimes hear you use is mercurial. And I've been up and down and develop that. It rather nails it, doesn't it? with Pakistan. I mean, to be I'm basically a cricket fan and I will go and watch anybody

and I love seeing England do well but in that way that it's nice to have a team that you really support and look out for. Pakistan's my team and they sometimes have bewildered us

and looked great and then collapsed and it's been very up and down over the years. It really has. I was at Lords when they were winning this year I was Lord's two years ago

when they won and so I've seen them in their highs but I've also seen them when we've had our head in our hands. We're a Pakistan fan. Okay, so therefore, how did you feel in 2010

when the spot betting business happened with Muhammad Amir? You've put yourself out there as a Pakistan supporter. How did that feel? Well, I mean, that's where my sort of personal life and professional life came together in a sense because I do like cricket and I had a job to do.

And I was the assistant commissioner that kind of led that investigation. So you actually investigated that? I did. Yeah, I did. And I suppose it is one of the things about being a police officer. You know, there's a rather perhaps overused phrase, but it's very important to us,

which is that, you know, we act without fear or favor. We do the job we have to do. And I've been involved in investigating a number of different issues and people, you know, for criminal offences where they're either people I've, you know, known well or, you know, you just have, and I'm sure my officers, As a different example, my officers would sometimes be, you know, facilitating protest where you've got arguing parties, different sort of protesters.

Yes. And the police job is very clear, you know, to keep the peace and to, you know, make sure there isn't disorder and to facilitate lawful protests. And then they may be, as individuals, feeling, you know, I have much more sympathy as a person with this group than that group. They mustn't show it. You have to get on with it. So back to, you know, that day, it was extraordinary.

Sad for you. Well, I'd been at Lords on the Thursday, and I'd seen the no balls bolt. And I'd turn to my friend Sue and said, what on earth's going on here? But I hadn't thought any more of it about it. It was just like extraordinary. You're so, weren't they? Well, you're the real expert. I didn't, maybe they look even more so to people like me now afterwards.

But I do remember thinking that's very strange, but nothing more than that. I was on with Phil Tuffin. Yeah. And so, you know, as bowlers, you look at how far, particularly Mohamed Amir actually, how much Asif was a bit craftier. And so his was actually. much smaller as it were and not quite so much. But Muhammad down there's

and tough as an eye said well how how is that possible because you know right that's I mean what two feet or so feels like three yards when you're a professional and you wouldn't let the ball

go because all you're doing is giving a run to the opposition so it just didn't make sense we weren't we weren't able to really say anything because in those days I think would we do it now possibly now but then I think as commentators and observers, we weren't quite secure enough to go on and say, this is, you know, this is dodgy, would I think possibly be difficult.

But you saw the no balls then. I saw the no balls. I didn't think anything more than how extraordinary Pakistan. I don't know what's going to happen. And then on the Friday night, the commissioner called me and said, Crestra, I've been contacted by a newspaper and they say they're going to run this enormous corruption story and they won't say what section it's in. And we agreed that I would go to the newspaper.

the following morning with a handpicked team of sensible people. I didn't know what it was about at all. I just knew it was to do with corruption. And I went there with my team and they started to show us the material that they had gathered. And I realised fairly quickly with my senior investigating officer that we needed to secure the evidence, obviously, before the newspaper published because clearly to do anything other than that

would risk the evidence being lost. And massive criticism and failure of an investigation and there ought to be taking place. So we, amongst other things, at about four or five o'clock, I drove quietly into Lords with my team up into the pavilion and went to meet David Collier, Chief Executive, I think. He was, VCB, yes. He didn't know what I was going to say.

And I just said, you know, this is the situation. And we need, my team will need to go into the dressing room and do a search of the dressing room, which he facilitated. What were you looking for? Well, evidence that we believed we would find that would show that money had been taken and for a particular reason, obviously. Anyway, fast forward, as you know, sadly for cricket,

three cricketers were convicted and it was a, I think, a very proportionate and sensible investigation. Very sad for the game, but needed to be done. But that's remarkable, because we were commentating at the other end, and you had no idea that you and your team are searching the dressing rooms at the Lord's Pavilion. It seems incredible.

Did you fight? We did. Can you say Navi did find it? Yeah, I mean, if you look at how the case developed, we found relevant material here. It's not here. At Lourdes, we found relevant material, and again, in the hotel rooms and elsewhere. And that was really important, and of course,

that could potentially have got lost. if we'd waited till the end of play or even to the end of the game and the whole thing would have been lost probably. Did you feel comfortable following a newspaper sting? We were very careful about it. As soon as you hear from, any newspaper thinks it's got very good evidence

and no judgment about one or another or another, our job is to make sure that that evidence has been properly and lawfully retrieved and immediately to work out. out whether it is likely to be able to be admitted in evidence in a court. And, you know, over the history of so-called stings, there have been some which have very clearly not been ethical or indeed lawful and others which, you know, looking back, I guess lots of people would say it was a good job. Somebody did that and nobody else was going

to do it. So it's not, they're never the easiest investigations. My team has always found difficult investigations to do. Yeah. As a cricket lover, when you'd finished all that. Were you sad? Or did you think, well, you know, that's perhaps you've just actually closed down another way in which people can wreck this sport? As a professional, I just did what we had to do. My team did what they had to do. We did it well. There was a, you know, finally they were found, you know,

our job is to put the evidence to the CPS and then if it goes forward to court to make sure it's presented for properly and fairly at court. I think that's what we did. And we'd done our job. As a cricket lover, I've no idea what the extent was of that sort of behaviour at the time, but I'm sure the fact that that investigation took place, however sad it would have been for everybody in Pakistan and elsewhere, I'm sure that has helped the cricket authorities tighten up and tighten up and tighten up. And, you know, sports should be fair, and the public shouldn't be cheated as, you know. Yes.

Are you happy with what you see these days in most sports, do you think? Or are you concerned still that the corruption has existed? It's very rare for us as the police to get involved in any sports corruption, extremely rare. Most sports have very good regulation and very good investigative bodies of their own. And so therefore, it's not a good use of public money for us to start dabbling in anything. And so it's only if we were, something is presented to us or sent to us, that we would, and there was a particular reason why we felt this is, you know, a serious crime that we need to deal with, that we would be likely to get involved, which is a long way of saying, I have no idea.

What I do know is that the bodies that try to, you know, in whatever it may be, all the different sort of international sports, I know they are well-resourced and well-supported. A lot of them are full of very good investigators, many actual metropolitan police officers actually are involved in. in trying to help sports stay clean in one way or another and it is probably a never-ending task to be absolutely sure that the risk is reduced to zero. What do you think is happening in cricket at the moment? I think it's hard to say.

I hate to even guess because you just don't know. I really believe that match fixing has been stopped. Because it's hard to do and you need more than just one or two people to do it. Sure. And I think now, as a commentator, I feel much more confident about saying, I'll go back to those no balls. I think, would I say there's something?

It's still difficult, isn't it? They go on the air and accuse somebody of cheating. But I think we are more confident. But it is, isn't it? Even if you think it is. Even if you think they might be. It's difficult. It's easier now.

We've got these numbers we can ring now, the ICC, if we're not happy, and say, I think we've seen something at least to be investigated. And I think that's important. But I don't quite get the mindset. I mean, you deal with criminal minds every day. I can't get the mindset of people fixing cricket matches and the huge sums of money that are at stake and change hands. I don't know, I'm a bit naive, I suppose,

but the fact that people would actually spend tens of thousands or whatever it is on a number of runs within a number of overs. I mean, you obviously deal with people like that, though. You can understand it. We do occasionally. And I mean, we deal with criminals every day, as you know, lots and lots and lots. And, you know, the betting markets are huge, of course,

all over the world, particularly in the east. There's a massive, massive betting markets. What would be better if it's legalized, do you think? In India, for instance? If betting was legalized, would that in India and place? No idea, actually. I don't know whether it would make it better or worse. But there's some of the, you know, there's just enormous amounts

money going through legitimate betting companies as well I'm not going to criticise them it's easy to bet on lots of different things nowadays and if if we go back to when we were young you know the only thing that anybody ever betted on and I would have thought in terms of cricket

would be who's going to win and who's going to lose that was the end of it now and it's all in fast time so that makes it quite quite tricky for all sports but I mean this is a slightly depressing conversation I do not believe that sport generally is ridden with corruption I absolutely don't I think the vast majority

of international sports people, you know, play at the best of their ability all the time and, you know, love playing. And they're not motivated by money. They're motivated, I'm sure that's a side thing for some people, but they're motivated by the game. Positive then. Tell me how proud you feel as a woman about the development of women's sport. I think it's fantastic. Yeah.

Yeah, I really do. Over the last sort of particularly 20 years, I guess, to see what's happened in soccer, in rugby. and in cricket. I mean, there have always been sports since I was young that women have played at a very high level and have had quite a lot of sort of focus and attention, you know, I don't know, equestrianism or golf maybe. Athletics, definitely, I love watching athletics.

But it's great to see it in the sort of big participation sports like soccer and cricket and rugby as well. What difference does it make actually to girls, I think it makes a mass. I mean, look, here we are looking out now over the many cricketers. And there's lots of girls there having a fantastic time.

And there's still lots of messages in society, I think, to girls about why they might not want to get involved in sport, you know, because you're going to get hugely musly or it's not very, you know, some people, girls get lots of messages about how attractive they have to be at young ages and, you know, it's not attractive to be sweaty

and all this stuff. But if you can get people involved very young, Like these girls and boys are, as I was into sport, you know, the skills you learn, the friendships you make, the resilience you build, the teamwork, the, and the sheer fun that you can have for the whole of the rest of your life, playing or watching, is, you know, to be treasured. And the idea that, you know, part of the population was, you know, never used to think that they could and couldn't imagine how they would. And some, many people wouldn't have thought they would enjoy it if they did.

and that's all changed. And I think it's wonderful. And what do you think you have done in... I mean, you're a trailblazer, let's be honest, to be the first woman to hold his post. How important has that been in the police force and indeed elsewhere, when you appear there on the telly?

To see a woman talking in those terms. I'm probably not the person to judge, really. I mean, I guess it's a moment in time. You know, we are in the Met. We're just 100 years of women in policing. and it's quite a long time. We were born in 1829. So it's quite a long time with no woman as commissioner, if you like.

But then here we are, it is 2018. You know, we've got a woman prime minister. We had until recently successive women home secretaries. There's lots of women in lots of positions that are seen as kind of powerful and or influential. And I think it is, what I do find is that a lot of people come up to me sometimes in the street and definitely when I'm, you know, in my uniform working on the street or anywhere around a police station, people come up to me and do say it's great to see a woman in that job.

It's not something that I think about very often. I haven't done for years. I just think I'm a person doing a job. But it's lovely when it's, you know, young people who say, you know, I never thought somebody could do a job like that. Or I've now started a girl will say, I've now started to think about being a police officer. So I guess just being there makes people think, well, actually,

I could have a go at that. And if it inspires a few young people, that's great. And actually, here we are in London. It's the most diverse city on the planet. And to have a modern feel about the police service, I think, well, you know, people are not all kind of the stereotypical, expected police officers. I think that's good.

I think it means that the public can see that the Met is a very modern and diverse kind of set up and is there for them in a positive way. Talk about London. I mean, I'm an occasional visitor here. I only popped down for the cricket. How safe is it? How safe is London at the moment? Well, I think London is a very safe city. If you compare it with many, if not most of the global cities, you compare it with just, well, every city in the United States, for example, big city in the United States. It's incredibly safe. And most people will go about their business feeling, you know, totally untroubled by a crime or violent crime. You know, throughout their visit, definitely is a tourist. or coming to see a sports event or, you know, if they're resident as well.

But we have had some horrible things happen in the last several years, which have been very high profile and have involved, you know, really nasty violence. And so that's, you know, my biggest operational priority is bearing down on that violence. Gang violence, terrorist violence? I mean, or do separate them. I do sort of define it quite broadly. So, of course, we've had terrorism, the terrible attacks last year. and the country faces a significant threat

and it has done for a long time so that's a big part of all our work all the time but I do define it broadly the knife and gun crime that has been very high profile but also domestic violence, sexual assaults, human trafficking there's a wide range of things I think the violent crime and terrorism have been the things that people have been

most been on people's minds for obvious reasons recently and violent crime on the streets And, you know, when I arrived as commissioner, we had Moped-enabled crime was incredibly high. Yes. Mostly phone snatches, but very unpleasant, and some of them very violent as well. Glad to say that's down about 50% now, but we've got a lot to do to make people not just be safe, as safe as is reasonably possible, in a huge city, you know, enormous numbers of people seething about all the time.

And feel safe. I want people to feel safe. How do you cope with that pressure of that, though? I mean, you just mentioned, you've rattled off all sorts of areas of, you know, crime there. You're sitting on top of the whole pyramid, aren't you? How do you deal with that? I mean, your phone, to do me, but you've got some sort of buzzer or something about you now that's got to go off and off you go. And how does that feel? How do you live with that?

Well, I've been a police officer, not completely continuously, but mostly for nearly 35 years now. I love it. It makes me, you know, very happy. I enjoy every minute of my police work. when I am dealing with something horrible or tough for the individuals affected, you know, that doing the job as well as I can with a great team, you know, gives me lots of kind of satisfaction. I wish it hadn't happened, but if it has happened, I'd rather be there than not there. So like, you know, the terrorist sentence last year, I've, as a leader, police

leader, I know from my retired colleagues, you know, everybody wants to help and you'd rather be there. So I feel that I've got a good team. There's, you know, there's 40,000. people in the Met. I've got some great officers. They're incredibly capable. I do believe we've got probably, you know, the best police service in the world. And they're always learning. They're always, you know, getting better, trying new tactics, doing new stuff. People come and visitors from all over the world. And so I feel very confident in them. And that's the most important thing, you know, they're great people. And I feel very confident in a lot of our structures and systems and the way we deal with major incidents and the way we deal with, God forbid, if there is one, a

homicide. And therefore I don't sit at home, you know, listening to Test Match Special worrying about what is happening in the town. I don't. I don't. I know they will call me if they need me and that will be rare because they, you know, they're really good people who know what they're doing. And I do work hard. I am present a lot. I'm out and about around London all the time and I do lots of different things to try to understand how the public are feeling how my staff are feeling but I'm a relaxed person as well I feel very calm about it

and I do think it would be very hard to do the job if you were a warrior I'm not complacent I hate the fact that there's violent crime in London I'm doing my damnedest together with my teams to reduce it but I enjoy every minute I enjoy every day and I enjoy my sort of pastimes like cricket

just a last thought and we've got to talk about cricket again a second before we're ever going to win this, especially the question of the sort of these terrorist activities moment. Can you see the day when actually that battle is won? I mean, we've,

this is a city, this is a country that's been dealing with terrorism in various forms for a long time, certainly throughout if I can put it this way, our lifetimes. We've been challenged by terrorism in some forms. And I think the current threats, you know,

from so-called international terrorism, but often people who are inspired and just look at something on the internet and go and do something quite quickly that's the primary sort of area that concerns us because we've got some extreme right-wing terrorism as well there's lots of different possible areas that we have to kind of really be alert to

but in terms of the international terrorism so-called I'm sure this is something that is going to be with us for I'm sorry to say for many years to come a generation or two I suspect yeah And I think that would be what most people would predict, just looking at the way in which, you know, Kaida managed to achieve what it did and then Daesh managed to achieve what it did

and the levels of support around various parts of the world and the ease, sorry, I keep pointing at your computer room, but the ease with which people can be, particularly vulnerable people, can be seduced into this sort of activity. And it does a lot of good things. I mean, I know that's this last year with my wife. But is there a way of controlling it?

Do you think it should be more controlled? Should there be some, I don't know how you do it quite, but this is clearly where a lot of this stuff is happening, isn't it? Yeah, I mean, we've been talking quite a lot about, obviously, terrorist material on the net, child sexual exploitation on the net, and indeed some aspects of how violent crime is encouraged or happens more quickly because of social media.

And, you know, if I look back, we were the first, the Met was the first place in which we started sort of work with companies to take material off the net. Right. And they're doing it all over the world now. And now the companies are doing it themselves for us. And that's the way it probably needs to be. So, you know, many years, we've taken hundreds of thousands of bits of terrorist material off the net.

And now, with the clever algorithms and their abilities, they can stop it almost before it appears sometimes, which is great. And we are working really closely with the companies. they, you know, they certainly are doing incredible things technologically. They're doing amazing things to communicate, to join people up. There's lots of benefits, as you say. I think many people would feel that they were probably a little bit slow to think harder about what I would call kind of social responsibility. But they do have some significant practical,

and on occasion really difficult legal issues because of being global and based in often in the States. so we work closely with them and I'm hopeful that in the future they will be doing more and more and more of this crime prevention. You know, I like, just as I want the Oval

to be making sure that it is sensibly preventing crime. And I want the public to be involved in policing and telling the police how to be and preventing the crime are in their own household or their own company.

I think the social media companies are doing a lot more now in the future I'd like to see them doing even more. And I'm having, you know, I personally and that many others I know the home society you're having very constructive conversations with them.

Oh, look at this. Ah, yes. Here we are. I have. You've brought it with a... Not made by me, Johnston. Oh, Kressl. I'm disappointed about that.

No, I know it doesn't qualify as a cake at all since I didn't make it. No, of course it does, because you've bought... But here we are. Right. Lots of different components to this. This is called a chocolate brownie cake. Okay. And it's made by Mirim, or Mims, as we know her,

who is a PCSO, police commission's support officer in World's End in London. Her son is going to part. out of the training school as a police constable soon. Mims has made the tease for the Metropolitan Police cricket team for at least 12 years, Saturday and Sunday, and she wanted you, and I wanted you to have a cake. I am no wicketkeeper, no baker, but I've brought a cake anyway. And you haven't dropped it.

No, to be fair, I didn't have to carry it very far. But this, is that part of a helmet or something? Right. So this is a blue, this is edible, I think, and I'm hoping that's Edwell, but be careful. And then this is a blue light. As you can see, it's a cover for a light. And it's taken off the top of a panda car.

Really? And Mims' is Uncle Reg stole it from his panda car when he retired from the police. That is, of course, a crime. Should you be revealing this? I've told Mims that we don't, in the metropolitan police intend to go back too far into the past. No, I think you're right.

I've just written that one off. So you're not going to confiscate it? No, I'm not, and nor am I going to let you have it. I think it's an artifact. There's some importance. So that's the old, that is the little panda car, blue light. He took it off the top of his car, yeah. Yeah, I'm not encouraging my officers to take things home, by the way.

Well done, ma'am. So she's a fantastic person. And, of course, Met cricket is not probably quite what it was. You remember we play at Imba Court? Yes. Which is a lovely ground. Surrey used to play there quite often, and it's a wonderful ground. Great, very wide boundary.

I think it's one of the widest boundaries. It's where the public school's final has played too, isn't it? I'm searching for the name of it. But I'm afraid because of the sort of pressures that there are on policing since about 2011 2012 the Mets cricket team is not... I was the president again they didn't let me near playing, don't worry

but so it's not quite what it was No Chris I've really been fascinated by what you've had to say today It's been lovely to see you You couldn't come in last time because the game was over too quickly It was I'm afraid, it was And I was very disappointed Because I've listened

As I say since the early 70s And you're sort of part of my family life What is it about the radio Your voices are part of our families, like many people. Like cricket on the radio, what does it do for you? It's wonderful. It's just wonderful. It is like, I mean, it's like if you play, I used to play squash to a reasonable level,

and after the match, you knew you were going to meet the other team, sit down and have, you know, and I'm sure the same industry here. Well, it's a bit more serious here, but you know, you know you're going to sort of hear from the same people and talk the same slightly, not that important, some of it, slightly in a way, some of it. No disrespect. It's going to be just, just, just. Excuse me. Excuse me, I've invited you into my office.

You've described what I say as in name. It's just going to be calming and fun and interesting and we enjoy what goes on between the commentators and the summarizers. And I do think TMS is not only a great institution and I can hear the voices of people who've gone even before you in my ears as I'm speaking. But one thing I've loved about TMS always is the way it is very generous. I think the commentators have, you know,

They might be critical with a small C. But, you know, even Jeffrey can be quite critical, can't he? But he's generous. I think he's generous. Well, that's my word. I've never seen generous from Jeffrey Boycott. Have you met him yet? No, I'm never missing.

Well, I might reserve that pleasure for you. And then you can make it very mind if he's generous or not. You see, the thing is it's just sport, isn't it? It is. It's incredibly important. It's not life and death. It isn't life and death. And people are having fun, and you're obviously having fun.

and when a great player does badly or a debutante makes a frightful fluff of something you aren't horrible to them and I think that's important I really think that's important it makes it easier for me to view I get cross when I watch sports commentators who are always saying they could do it better than the people now

and they're hopeless and they're making lots of mistakes I just think that's ridiculous I listen to cookie say and he's been a fantastic cricketer hasn't he and he's obviously had some tougher times as well and I just heard him say I may not be the most talented

but I made everything of what I could do well they're all incredibly talented they don't need knocking no they don't thanks for coming thank you it's been really good fun it's been very much indeed we're about to start here if you're not careful

you're going to be commentating on the game as well and I'm sure it won't be inane I'm not going to forget that I'm not going to get over that honestly described as inane by the head of the met how interesting it was here from Dame Cressida, who continues to lead London's police force and, of course, follows her cricket. So I hope you enjoyed that classic view from the boundary. There are lots

more interviews available for you to listen to on BBC Sounds. Here's a taster of a chat with a comedian Paul Merton from 2013. So I was listening to the radio that got you into cricket then? Yes. Yeah, I mean, I sort of, I was listening yesterday to the conversation you were having with Stephen Frye about the contest between bat and ball. And it's very interesting that the game is 200 years old or whatever, and still that hasn't changed. I would listen to sort of, you know, when the coverage on the BBC in the very early days in the 60s was basically you've got a camera at one end. And if half a fag stand in the middle of it, you ain't going to see the wicket.

It's sort of a challenge, doesn't it? You know, the umpire's called half a fag. I mean, you know, how can you not fall in love of a sport that has? You know, he was a big long white coat. And then you sort of, you realise actually the commentary on the radio is so much better in those days because you couldn't see very much and there wasn't any replays. And whereas now, you know, you know, you're still cundering up the imagery as you always did then.

I mean, one of my favourite shows, Hancock's Half Hour, doesn't date on the radio because sound recording was perfected, you know, 80 years ago. So it doesn't sound any worse than it does now. But you conjure up just the imagery of what's happening out there. And I think that's, you know, with Henry with the buses going down over there and stuff. This is how, so I know cricket, but there's certain definitions I don't understand. I found this out only the other day, and this makes cricket even more endearing to me. I said to somebody the other day, now, mid-off, I've got that,

silly mid-off? What is that? Like, like, and is that an acute angle or something? It said, no, no, it's because it's silly, it's close to the batsman. Yes. I'd never realise that. So it's the sport that incorporates the word silly into its rules and into its positions. I mean, that's, I mean, you know, that's fantastic. And I always thought it was some like

some acute angle off the hypotenuse or something. No, no, no, no. Far too technical. Not at all. Well, you'd like to have played. I mean, now you've got into it and you listen and you're watching it and you come to test matches. Do you regret they had another chance to play? Yeah, I do. I've only just started taking up golf.

I mean, cricket's a game where you need other people to play with you, don't you? With football, you can at least kick a ball against the wall. Unless you're just bowling at a wicket drawn on a brick wall or something, there's not much you can do. So, I don't know, it just wasn't in our sort of family culture to play cricket much. The schools never did it. So it's just something I never worried about it or thought about it that much. But I think also the hardness of the ball, the first time you face that,

when I was probably in my 30s the first time I actually just held a bat and you go, and this is a slow bowler and you realise that maybe that's a certain degree of courage is needed to take the game up in the first place because the ball is hard and if you're as a seven-year-old you feel that hard ball, you think, oh, this isn't for me or you think, oh, I can't wait to get some of this

so maybe it's a bit like the 11 plus it sorts out early on. So to make sure you don't miss anything from Test Match Special, just subscribe to the podcast via BBC Sounds. Alan Shearer and Ian Wright are in my kitchen. What's going on here? The all-new Match of the Day Top Ten podcast,

answering a huge football question every week. This has not been easy, hasn't it? Like the Top Ten Premier League strikers. Personally, I think it's really hard to have Shearer anywhere near the top ten. The Match of the Day Top Ten podcast. Only available on BBC Sounds. Radio Podcasts.