Test Match Special - #40from40: Daniel Radcliffe

Episode Date: April 9, 2020

Harry Potter actor Daniel Radcliffe chats to Jonathan Agnew on his 18th birthday during a Test against India in 2007.

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On BBC Sounds. Hello, Jonathan Agnew here to bring you another edition of Classic View from the Boundary. For this episode, we're heading to 2007. Actor Daniel Radcliffe played Harry Potter in the acclaimed movie franchise and decided to spend his 18th birthday at Lords, as England tried in vain to force a win against India. The Harry Potter star hadn't finished filming the series. Indeed, the final book had only just been released,

but he took the time to chat to us at the home of cricket. And this was far from a special treat for Daniel just on his birthday he'd been following the whole game. We've been a lot time in the Compton stand and a little bit in the Edric stand. No, it's been fantastic. I have to say the best time we've had was when we were surrounded by the Indian fans on day two

because the competition and the banter was so much more exciting. Did they know who you were? Are they Harry Potter fans? I think they guessed when a little kid came up to me and asked me to sign his book. So I think that was the big giveaway. You must be signing 100. of those at the moment, aren't you? Although, directly, I suppose, that's nothing to do with you. It's all JK Rowlings, but you're swept into it, aren't you?

Absolutely, yes. No, I've had it. I mean, every other pace you take here, you see another copy of the seventh book, obviously, just released. So it's, no, everyone's, Potter fever, it's fever pitch at the moment, yeah. But, Ashley, without the glasses, I wouldn't necessarily have got you, you know? The owlish glasses have a giveaway with Harry Potter, aren't they? Well, I know, yeah. I mean, that's why I tend not to wear them when I'm out and about that, and the cape.

pretend to tip people to tip people the wink that way and the broomstick no doubt yeah exactly so how about something for not many 18 year olds get to spend a day at lords for their for their birthday i know exactly i mean this is the thing it's it's everyone i think the tabloids especially expecting me to have some massive extravagant bash with lots of other celebrities and that's so not my thing so just to come here for a day was a bit of a dream really because i've never been to a cricket match before not but you've been following cricket haven't you yeah absolutely no i've been i got into it actually most people got into it with the ashes we won

and I got into it with the ashes we were whitewashed just simply because of Paul Collingwood's double hundred at Adelaide which is also the reason he is my favourite player as well so I'm very excited to see unfortunately he hasn't he done so well in this test but did take a very good catch as well okay well maybe as a birthday treat

maybe I could counter up bit of magic and maybe arrange for you to meet him later on that would be absolutely amazing so far I've got Andrew Strauss's autograph and Sachin Tendalkers so I didn't R.P. Singh, so it wasn't far enough, into the front. Were they aware of who's asking them for their autograph, I wonder? No, they weren't. They were doing the thing that I do when I'm in a crowd of people,

which would just keep your head down and keep moving as you sign. So I don't think any of them saw me. But this is rather odd, because I have behind me, I've got to confess, a book from Andrew Strauss. Oh, really? For you to sign for his child. Excellent, good. So that's all rather bizarre. Yes, it's irony.

Well, now, how did you get into cricket then? If this is your first game that you've been to and you got into, the game by watching England get so thrashed last one. How did that happen then? I don't know. It was something about also, there's something about being in Australia, because the Australians, they just,

I mean, I love Australia and I love Australians, apart from when they talk about cricket, because they love to gloat. And something in the patriotic side of me was stirred, so I just suddenly became incredibly just obsessive cricket fan and wanted us to beat them, which we didn't, but we will next time. And Collingwood's innings in particular,

you're watching on television, in Australia, where were you? I was in Melbourne, but I was watching Adelaide. Yeah. And so what was it about that really? It was a celebration. First of all, it was a relationship that sort of started, you know, between him and K.P. Was lovely to see because they were really spurring each other on. And then that final celebration really got his double hundred was so just impassioned that it was, you know, it was really inspirational. It was great.

It was a great cry, didn't he? Yeah, it was quite primeval and scary in a way, but I liked it all the same. And apart from Paul Collingwood, then, which other players are grabbing your attention? So I mean, Peterson, presumably. Peterson, obviously, yes, and he waved at us earlier. Ryan's Eyebottom as well, I just think he's great. With his hair. With his hair.

He could be in a Harry Potter film, couldn't he? He could, absolutely. And then, actually, I mean, I really like Ravi Bapara. He's not, obviously, in the Test Squad this time round, but I think he's fantastic. I think he's really, really good for the future. I think he's great, yeah. And actually, Matt Pryor, to be fair, I really like him. You haven't mentioned Monty, I thought he might be on the list.

Well, Monty's on everybody's list. Monty just has to block a shot and he gets a real. roar from the crowd as if he scored his 100th hundred. It's fantastic. This is your first live game then, Daniel? How have you taken to the way in which people behave at cricket grounds? Is it surprised? Do you? Have there a certain etiquette? What have you learnt about watching cricket and all various stands that you've been in? I've learned that the Edric stand is, you know, encumbered by children.

Is it? Yes, so that was a mistake we didn't make a game. And then I think in the, like today we had to move because we were in a very, very rowding crowd. And I didn't want to think I was, I didn't want the England players to think I was part of that. But the best man we've met so far was the very, very, very drunk MCC member yesterday, which was very, very funny. Where was that? That was in the Compton stand again, yeah. What was he up to? I don't know.

I couldn't really understand what you were saying. I kept asking to ask his friend to translate for us. Well, they get everywhere these MCC members. I mean, actually, you've just met Stephen Fry in here. No, you've met C.B. Charles, I always get his name more. Charles Frye, who's the chairman of MCC, and you put the two together, the CB Frye, didn't you? Yes, I did. I was really pleased with myself as well, but also I like John Betchman's poems, and C.B. Fry's mentioned in one of them, so suddenly the name, Fry's quite a distinctive name, anyway, it's easy one to remember.

That's good knowledge. So what about the game then is doing it for you, Daniel? What's you, okay, Collingwood's batting, but what is about the game itself? I love the fact that, I love the fact that it's a very specific sport. It's not every, it's not like football where everybody seems to be into it. it's also the fact that there are so many rules and complications and some of them aren't really necessary but i just enjoy them i enjoy the sort of pedantry of cricket as much as this play because your game is quidditch isn't it i mean that seems quite complicated it is i don't know the rules fully i probably i was asked the other day on television um some technicality and i didn't

know and i got laughed up by the presenter it was horrible sort of football and hockey on broomsticks is it it's a combination of that and basketball and lots of apparently in a in a sort of harry potter convention they had in America. They worked out a way of doing a sort of grounded version of Quidditch, which I would not pay to see, but I just don't know how it could possibly work. How'd you film it?

Oh, I couldn't possibly reveal that information. No, it's very, very, very clever computer-generated stuff and they put me on a pole, on a broom. To be honest, it's incredibly painful to film. If anybody who's ever sat on a bicycle and had their sort of legs,

the feet taken off the pedals and leant forward, It's quite, yeah, it is quite, yes. And it probably happens quite often, does it? Not so much anymore, because he stopped writing it. I think I'm probably the only child in the whole of the UK who is pleased not to have quidditch in the Harry Potter books. Hey, you're 18 now, you can stop saying child. I can, you're absolutely right.

Yes, I forgot I was 18 when I woke up this morning, and then I opened the presents, which was great. Now, are you kind of an obsessive sort of, Phil? I mean, to got so quickly into cricket, are you someone who, I don't know, who Googles a lot, Will you be interested in the history of cricket things? Oh, yeah, absolutely. I mean, that's the other great thing about cricket.

It's a pretty old sport. And there is so much history to it and so much long-standing rivalries and history between the various players, let alone the teams. And so, no, that's another thing that attracts me to, I suppose, yeah. What are the one-day stuff? Are you going to find yourself in that? Do you think 2020? I would love to go to a 2020 match, absolutely.

I think it, you know, you hear a lot of people sort of saying, oh, well, it's not right and it's not proper. and I don't quite understand that, because I just think it's incredibly exciting. And also, in a way, it's not just sort of, you know, smash it and run. There is a lot of tactics in it as well, which I think, you know, particularly Lestercher of the team I love watching, because they got Paul Nixon. Well, play, that's my old county. Really? Oh, right, okay, no, Paul Nixon. You can't be that young that you can't, if you haven't, you didn't know that, did you?

No, I didn't. Oh, Daniel, let me damn badly. Sorry. That was my old count over the 15 years. Did you? Oh, well, I didn't know that. I'm so sorry. Never mind. I'll forgive you that. Could I just quickly say hello to Tony O'Sullivan, who's my English teacher, who's listening now, and hello, Tony, and I hope you very well.

Thank you very much, sorry, I had to get that in. Well, you've more or less covered one of my next questions. What on earth sort of a life do you have, Daniel? I mean, here we've got one of our shaggy-haired photographers look, who's leaning over the fence here to take a picture of you. I mean, is it constantly like this these days? Are you still at school? I've actually left school last year, but, I mean, apparently there are quite a few paparazzi around. at the moment but hopefully you know i mean i don't know i think the story is just that they're they're

trying to you know banner active celebrates his 18th which i don't think is the biggest news headline in the world i don't think it's that surprising but probably not when it's so compared the floods and people stuck in that hasn't actually yes my friends my friends are actually in cheltenham at the moment and so they've filled up the bath and all the pans just to save on water but what i are you going to do i mean is there not going to be a huge glitzy bash i mean you're coming to a few quid today. No, I don't know, I don't think, I don't think I'm going to go in for the sort of big spender ball. It's not, that's really not my thing. Any kind of extravagance is not for me, to be honest. Go back to the sort of school side of it then, Dan. I mean, you've obviously

been acting for a long time. Is it difficult to compare the two? It was. I mean, the thing is, when I was at school, I didn't, my marks were all right, but they weren't great. But when I was filming because I was tutored one-to-one on set. My grades got so much better. So, yeah, I mean, it was never that hard to juggle in a way because, like, sort of for a long time, it's all I've known. So you sort of get used to it after the first few months, really. I was amazed by the kids that you see in, I don't know, Les Reisrabble, or any sort of West End show where these real young kids are coming on, it's quite late at night. What sort of life do they have? How do they juggle all of that?

Well, obviously, I could never, I can't really speak from experience that, because by the time I did the play earlier in the year I was no longer in school so I don't know as long as they're enjoying it then that's fine and obviously it's not getting in the way of their lives

and it shouldn't be a problem I mean there's a lot made of the sort of child star thing but I think if you've got good people around you who are gonna you know just be honest with you and you know treat you as a kid rather than an actor

then you'll be alright and also everyone no one ever talks about people like Christian Bail and Jodie Foster who started acting really young and have made it and done really brilliantly they always focus on the negatives

Like McCauley Culkin, for instance, and the problems that he may not have had. He's sort of started, he's sort of come out the other side of that now and is doing really well. So it's possibly just a tougher time for some people than it is for others. I guess it means you've got to grow up pretty quickly, though. I think it's just something that happens, because when you're on set and you're surrounded by adults, when you're a kid, I think most of the, the only relationship you have with adults are as teachers or parents, whereas suddenly you're working alongside them, so I suppose you do tend to mature slightly faster. It was always something you wanted to do.

Can you remember when you first, was it a school play or something? What fired you up? Your parents are involved in theatricals. They were both actors when they were younger, and my dad is a literary agent, so he looks after writers and directors, and my mum's... Oh, he actually isn't anymore. He now chaperines me on set, but my mom's a casting director, and I hasten to actually never cast me in anything.

That's not how I got the role. And so, yeah, I don't know. I mean, I suppose, yeah, because you spend so much time around adults, you just get used to it very quickly, and you learn how to handle yourself around them. Yeah. Yeah. Going back, I mean, presumably, when you first auditioned for this role, you were, what, so young, you possibly didn't know what it was all about, did you at the time? I didn't at all. I had no idea what the significance of the significance of it, to be honest. And it only, but it was only on the third film that I thought, you know, wow, I'm really enjoying this.

And, because I was always enjoying it, but it's the first time I thought, this is, this is something I want to pursue and go on to do when I'm older. So hopefully, if people still work with me, then I will be able to do that. Yeah. Can I remember that first audition? How old were you, about 10 or something? I think I was just 11. And yeah, I remember it very, very vaguely, actually. I remember being quite nervous,

but more about meeting the people than about not getting the part, because you walk into a room and it's full of adults and directors and producers, and even then you're sort of a little bit intimidated. But that was a great thing about Chris Columbus, who directed the first two movies. He was so easy to get on with,

and he made everybody feel very relaxed as soon as he met them. Yeah. What did you have to do? This isn't on a broomstick or something? No, I think I had to do one of the scenes with Hagrid. I think I had to read one of those scenes, and luckily I have these sort of freakishly large eyes, which apparently looked mournful.

So that was essentially how I got it, I think. And also, they started filming a month or two, you know, I think they only had a month left before they started filming. So it was probably a mixture of desperation, among other things. But I mean, if you'd known what a huge job opportunity or just a chance this was going to be, you'd probably have totally done it, please. Yeah, but I think that's the brilliant thing about being 11, that in a way, nothing like that faces you. You're unnaturally confident because you just, it's harder to take in the bigger picture of something,

so you sort of just go into it all guns blazing. And you're a lot less inhibited then, because, of course, you haven't done the whole puberty thing. Indeed, in fact, you've done it on set, probably. Yeah. Take it on to the set, Daniel. I mean, obviously, they're all different, but what's it like for a really young kid, first of all, as you were for that first film to go in and to be with all of this? I mean, were you prepared for it in any way? Yeah, I think I was, just because my parents have always been absolutely fantastic. And because, as you said, because they were both in the business, they were very good at preparing me for what I had to do when I get on set and to be focused. and you know and but also have a good time and so i think that they they sort of help me to prepare for that um i remember the first day we went on set on the the call sheets which we got every day there

was only four people on it four of the cars it was myself emma who plays mainey rupert who plays ron and robbie coltrane playing haggred and so i thought oh well that that's not too bad that's hardly anybody i can do that and then on the next page i told you how many extras were going to be then it was about 350 so it was um yeah it was mildly intimidating but again Chris Columbus was so good, good with all the kids on the set. You know, he managed it. He did the films for two years, and he got these... It's ten months we do, we've been to film one,

so it's quite a long haul. And he was brilliant at getting us enthusiastic every day we came onto the set. Literally ten months non-stop working. Oh, yeah, pretty much. I mean, the second film was actually longer, it was 11, but mostly, I think they're saying the next one's going to be about eight or nine, but I don't believe that for a moment. Where are you living in...

I'm still at home with my parents I haven't moved out yet When you're on the set Oh right Well because we film it in Leaveston In Watford Leaveson So I just live at home all the time So I never have to

You know go very far each day I like poor old Emma who has to I think she comes from Oxford every day Right And who of the other characters have been really good to you I mean your old friend Roger Lloyd Pack Who I know actually was learning his lines For whichever film he was in

he was in the fourth one okay and headingly when he came to do what you're doing now with me oh fantastic he went off and sat somewhere in one of the stands there and learned his line roddard had some big speeches um no and it was um i don't know uh i suppose matt louis who plays neville uh in the films is just great he's really really get on with matt i mean to be honest i get on really well with everybody my best friend on set is a guy called will who's in costume uh and you know he's been there since the very beginning so we're you know we're great mates and um And obviously Rupert and Emma, we've been together so long now, we all get on really well. It's like a family.

Yeah, pretty much. The whole set is, though, because the crew's barely changed over the last five movies. So, no, we're all really, really close, to be honest, there's not, there's really not very much. There's not too much tension at all, which you would probably expect on a shoot that long. Mistakes? There must have been a few laughs on there, weren't they? No, I mean, I think everyone assumes that because the films are quite big budget, that they must be just foolproof to work on, and that there's never any cock-ups of any kind.

Of course, they happen constantly. But, you know, I mean, not, you know, I've got a lot better at not laughing mid-take. And we, I still have... You're a giggler, I? Oh, I used to be terrible. Me and Rupert Grin, we used to be absolutely appalling together about just laughing all the time. But to be fair to us, we have got a lot better. We have managed to control ourselves a lot more now.

Is that the feeling, I mean, when I make a mistake or whatever, on live radio or television, it doesn't really matter, it's gone. But if you make a mistake on all these huge budget films, I mean, do you think, oh, there's another million dollars? down the panel. I'll have to reshoot the whole thing. I try not to think about that, but also I try not to make mistakes anymore. But yes, that is a terrifying thought, isn't it? Well, JK herself, I mean, what's your relationship with her for a start? Really, really good. You know, Joe's lovely, and we get on really well. She hasn't given me any hints as to any of the books ever.

And I still haven't read the seventh one. Because I've been here, so I've not had a chance to read it yet, but I will. Have you got it somewhere? I have got it at home. I started it last night. and um but yeah no i mean we're really we're really you know she's lovely to us all to everybody on set and yeah and if you ever do have a question about a particular choice you've made with the character you know she can i say yes that's good or no never do that again um and you know so she's very hands-on in fact for the film i mean she's not she you know she will only she'll never sort of

come in and criticize she's always very you know she've used the films as totally separate things of the books which they are and um and so you know she she's she totally understands that Things do have to be cut and things do have to be lost in order to make a two and a half hour film. Because if you filmed the whole book, it would be about six hours long. So, no, she's very, very good. But if you do ask for her help, she's more than willing. Yeah. But how did you sort of create that character?

I know a lot of it's written down for you, but actually it's the actor's job to make the person, isn't it? I mean, I think when I started out, because I was so young, it was more that I wasn't thinking, I suppose, so much about the character as just say the lines and say them well and remember them. And so to be honest, I was probably playing me at 11 in the first two films, really. Really? But then after I started to get into the more, I suppose, the technical side and the, you know, really getting into acting as a way of expressing yourself, I guess. That sounds really pretentious, but that's, I suppose, what I'm trying to say. And I then started to think more deeply about, you know,

what the difference is between myself and Harry are, and so I don't just end up playing myself in all the films. And also, as you say, most of it's written down. all the advice you really need is so detailed the character in the book. Do you feel that you're putting more of you into Harry Potter now, then, the character than you were when obviously you're so young? I suppose I'm drawing more on things that have happened to me in my life, but the character still remains very, very separate from who I am, yeah.

Enough Harry Potter for now, because I'm sure you're absolutely bored of that. What about taking a kit off on stage, Daniel? That caused a bit of a stir, isn't there? It did a bit, yeah. I found all that quite funny, to be honest, because I sort of expected there to be a bit of, not outcry, but a bit of shock. But the thing is, most of the people that were criticising, and there were more than a few of them, generally haven't really read the play, because if they'd read the play, they'd known it was totally,

it was important in the play, it wasn't just gratuitous nudity. You know, they did actually have a point to it, no pun intended. And so, yeah, it was, it wasn't really a surprise, but I did find it rather funny. What sort of nudity was it? Was it just sort of lying there quietly and just keeping out of the way sort of nudity? Or was it parading round full frontal nudity? It was blinding horses naked.

So it was quite physical nudity. We're back to the pain factor again, on we? Yes. I was quite nervous the first two times I did it, but after that you actually stopped caring. Yeah. Was that something that you felt you had to do, just to break away?

A lot of shock horror fact, there wasn't there? There was a bit, but it was... I didn't just do it for the sake of, of shocking people. It was the fact that it's an amazing play and it's, you know, it's the first revival in the West End for 30 years and it's such an honour to be involved in it. But that was the, that was the reason for doing it. But also it did have that added bonus that it started to make people see me as an actor rather than just Harry Potter. That's what's coming to. I mean, that's got to be the big goal in your life, hasn't it? I mean, you've been part of something

really special and will continue to for a while, although we now know there is a definitive end to all of this. What comes next for you, isn't it? Yeah, I mean, I think to be honest, there will always be a certain amount of people that always view me as Harry Potter. But to be honest, that's more their problem than mine, because that won't stop me doing other things. I'm just going to continue working, hopefully, and doing other, hopefully, interesting jobs. And it's sort of up to them whether they want to see me as an actor or whether they want to see me as just Harry. Yeah. But, I mean, you're young enough, presumably, to shake Harry off, aren't you?

Yeah, I've got time, certainly. Time's on my side for a little while, yeah, touchwood. Yeah. Tell us all about your 18th, what are you going to do today? You can't just sit here with him, mate, who's sitting here, his arms fold, enjoying himself. And what are you going to do today? I'm going to meet up with some friends in the evening and just have, you know, I don't particularly want to be ending up in any kind of newspapers,

although I'm sure they'll probably get something on me. But, you know, hopefully they won't. But, you know, hopefully I'll just be able to have a good relaxed 18th. Great. Well, I hope you do. And cricket-wise, Daniel, I mean, this is the start of hopefully a long love affair for you. Absolutely. I can't see it changing, to be honest. I'm just, I'm now waiting for the 2009 ashes is the next one for me. Brilliant. Well, look, we've got one or two things for you here, because it is your birthday.

We can't, we can't quite compete with other presents that you may be getting. But Schilper's been busy, because I think even Schilper feels a little bit guilty about hounding you down. But she with her binoculars went around 29,000 people at the track. Now, here we go. That's a copy of our book that's come out at this summer. It's already signed. I've got to sign it now. It's already done. Somewhere inside. Where we go. Happy 18th. I have a memorable day at Lords. If all their blowers is there, Angus Fraser, Chris Martin Jenkins, Bill Frindle. They're all there, so read that rather than Harry Potter tonight, I said, yeah.

All right, I shall do. And there we go. Well, you enjoy that. And Schilber's got a cake somewhere, but I think she's forgotten it. No, she's got it here. Last question for you, we've read somewhere. Have you had a bad dream about Andrew Strauss? He seems to have featured a couple of times in this interview. What was all this about?

It was basically, I can't remember the details of it But it was that I just very vividly remember him chasing me with a cricket bat And it was during the West Indies series Where he wasn't in the greatest of form And I mentioned it in an interview I heard this Australian voice from the back of the room Don't worry, mate, you wouldn't be able to hit you if you did catch you Which I thought wasn't the most generous of comments

That's a bit harsh, but I guess he's probably asking for it So he's another one you've got to try and meet this afternoon Yeah, absolutely I would love to meet him Especially after his knock on Thursday Well he was our youngest view from the boundary until actually quite recently. And we'll take this opportunity to point you towards another interview to look out for from our classic View from the Boundary series.

Muhammad Walid Khan was just 12 years old when he survived a terrorist attack at his school in Pakistan. Four years later, in 2018, Wadde came to Headingley to tell his story, complete with an inspiring message. I remember that when I was in ICU and I was crying for my friends and I was crying and my mom was sitting with me and she told me at that time

that if you cry will your friends come back by that? I said no. So she said that it's better not to cry now and you should do something for them because you have survived now miraculously so now it's your duty. God has saved your life for a purpose

now and the purpose of your life should be alive with the purpose now and you should do something for your friends to keep them alive forever in the hearts of people. That's your mother? what a remarkable woman too wow

she is a great mentor to me a great support to me it was quite difficult but as I said like people like my mother and my father and the friends family friends like

Kasi Inka and all other friends like the whole nation and the whole world it was unbelievable like in the start I used to think like there's no humanity left on this earth. After this incident, I used to think, well, when I see people around the world and the way they show me respect, they show me love and they show us, like, support,

it was unbelievable. And it was like, I still, now I believe that there is humanity, there is humanity, and people can feel the pain. When people can feel your pain, the way they supported us. They supported us like their own children. Like, I mean, every country, every country in the world supported us like their own children and they showed support to us. You have every right to be a very angry young man. Yeah.

Full of rage at what's happened and what you saw. You know, the thing was, that was at first, it was in my mind that in the starting days, I was thinking that I will take revenge of my friends and my revenge and I will join military

or Air Force and I will take my revenge. But then I thought that what will happen if I will take revenge? What will happen? Like, I will kill their children. And then tomorrow, their children will grow up and they will kill my children. And then my children will grow up

and they will kill their children. And this war will be going on for generations. So it's better to finish this war with the perfect solution. And I think the best solution for this is to give them education. Educate their mind. They are not educated. They are being manipulated by wrong people.

Those children who are doing this, they don't know about, They don't know anything. They haven't seen the world around them. They just believe what they have been showed all the way, all their lives. Brainwashed, really? Yeah, they are being brainwashed by them. So the only solution for them is, like, the only solution to this is to educate their minds, educate them, educate their children.

Because with guns and with bullets, we can only kill a terrorist. But with education, I believe we can kill terrorism. and that again clearly motivates you very much I can see you in your face that is something you feel very very strongly about do you think it's possible is that solution possible it is possible like everything is possible

in the world like if you give children's opportunities instead of sending bombs and guns to countries to like underdeveloped countries we should send books and pens to those countries we should set teachers to those countries and we should invest in that And we should provide them opportunities.

We should provide the children's there opportunities, cricket opportunities, sports opportunities. We should give them education opportunities. And if you educate them, like if you take an example of a child, like if a child is being taught the right thing since his childhood, he will always do the right thing because he has been educated by the right way. But if a child has been taught the wrong way,

he has been shown the wrong image of the world, he will think like that and he will always think and he will always think that these people are his enemies and he will try to kill them. He will try to do terrorism and stuff. So we need to educate their mind. We need to educate them. That full interview is part of our series

celebrating 40 years of View from the Boundary. To make sure you don't miss a thing, just subscribe via BBC Sounds. The TMS podcast, classic view from the boundary. Alan Shear and Ian Wright are in my kitchen. What's going on here? The all-new Match of the Day Top Ten podcast,

answering a huge football question every week. This has not been easy, hasn't it? Like the Top Ten Premier League strikers. Personally, I think it's really hard to have Shearer anywhere near the Top Ten. The Match of the Day Top Ten podcast. Only available on BBC Sounds.