Test Match Special - #40from40: Eric Clapton CBE

Episode Date: May 21, 2020

Guitarist Eric Clapton talks to Jonathan Agnew in 2008 about his remarkable career and love of cricket.

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welcoming you to another classic View from the Boundary from Test Match Special. And over the years, I've interviewed some greats from all sorts of fields, sport, drama, journalism, literature, and of course music. Eric Clapton is one of the most influential guitarists in history, known as God when he emerged onto the London music scene in the 1960s and selling out shows for well over half a century. Away from the stage, he's a huge cricket fan playing regularly in charity matches, although I hope protecting those precious hands.

A guest, we've been longing to speak to for years. Eric joined us in August 2008 during a one-day international between England and South Africa, and there's a real treat to meet a man often described as the greatest guitarist on the planet. Eric Clapton, good morning. Good morning. We've finally enticed you into our box. Yeah. Thanks, everyone so much for coming.

You're very welcome. It's been actually not so much enticing you. It's been bribing in both of them. aware of what's been happening well i didn't know no i had no idea he just um mentioned it the other day a couple of weeks ago and uh and i thought why not because i had i was coming today anyway yes i was coming today to watch this game and um and i set off this morning into the thunderstorm and i thought well i i wouldn't come but i thought i'm i've got to keep my word on this you know can't let beefy down and well well we have bribed him with huge amounts of pork pie

Ah. Which I'm sure is probably evident in the bursting suit that he's wearing this morning. I thought the suit would fit rather well, actually. He's been cleaning he's out of house and home to get you on. So it's great that you are here. Do you come here often, Eric? That's a good chat. Not often enough, no.

I never get to see enough cricket. I do watch a lot of cricket on the TV, and when I'm travelling, I watch it. I've got one of those things called a slingbox, do you know, those are... Very fancy. You can watch your TV programmes abroad. Yes. And when I can I watch, you know. but I'm now I love the game yeah through in both of them or through before you're like I grew up in Ripley and we've got a we've got a lovely pitch there and there and I didn't play my I played at school a little bit wasn't very good but it's something about um Sundays and cricket on the on the village green I mean that's just in my blood and whenever I get home sick I think I think those things sort of come up as a list of priorities that I have to do is get home and watch a game of cricket.

That's a lovely image, a very English image, isn't it? To go out there and sit on the village green on a Sunday. I mean, where I was brought up is almost like a suburb of London now. But in those days it was quite country, you know. And it was great. And all of my heroes in the village heroes played cricket. They're the same people that taught me out of fly fish, etc, etc. So, and I do travel.

I'm a wanderer. But when I think of cricket or when I watch cricket on TV, it calms me down. It gives me a sense of security. It's funny, isn't it? It's very deep psychological stuff. I wonder why that is, though? Well, because it was when

it harks back to when life was kind of a little simpler for me anyway. And there were really no responsibilities and, you know, that finished a week at school, which I didn't particularly like very much and the weekend would be playing on the green

and watching a good graven cricket. What did you try and do cricket-wise? Did you ever play to any standard at all? No, not at all. Not at all. I just played as an amateur or at school because, you know, it was in the curriculum. And I remember one incident where I got, when I was batting and I got hit in the throat. Oh, that's not good.

By the ball. And that kind of put, that put the fear of God in me as to all sports, actually. I stopped out. And that was about the time that I was developing an interest in painting and music and all those sort of artistic things. So I took the fork in the road about that time. Shane, but a great thing about sport is, though, you can come along and watch high-quality international sport without actually played it very well, you can't you. That's a great thing about it. One Day International cricket, Test cricket, test cricket, coloured clothes, 2020? Test cricket, for me, is the ideal. It's the sort of the Arthurian thing, you know, about England and just, there's so much romanticism and drama in a test game.

If you've got the weather. I mean, I really, I'm a real stickler for good. I mean, I miss the days of my youth when summers were, you know, three or four months long. And it's always sad when games are drawn because of the weather. But to watch a good game, you know, like there's something, the strategy and the subtlety of that game, which you don't get, I think, with limited over games. It's just far more refined. It's funny because the appeal of that of one-day cricket seems to really,

far and widen it, whoever we talk to in here, whoever comes in, be the rock musicians, actors, politicians, whatever it may be, they'll always say, but test cricket's the one that man. Is that the fact? Yeah. Because I know, I understand the thrill and the drama of one-day games, and in a way, it's not, it makes you wonder whether they're trying to integrate it into a matter, because that's the way the American market is, they can't, you know, they can't watch cricket because there's not enough commercial breaks. Well, they could be, but there's not enough. It's not fast enough. It just isn't, and a test game is, and a test game is so deliberate and it has it but it has all of those ups and downs and you know you

could you can be watching for an hour and it looks like nothing is happening and then in the next five minutes all hell will break loose you don't get that anywhere else did persuade people sometimes that test cricket isn't boring do you find some of your mates say pooh how do you watch that Eric dear me that's a test cricket I mean all these sort of rock musicians you hang out with I mean it doesn't necessarily go together is it test cricket and rock music well I don't really I don't see myself as being a particular kind of music. I probably think

I'm more of a blues musician anyway. It's more to do with it's a slower kind of medium anyway and a little more subtle. I'm not a pop. I'm not really a pop person. I'm not attracted to

pop media. So I put, you know, one day games along with that, you know, in 2020s go. With that for me, it's all fast food. That's cricket is blues then, is it? Test cricket? Yes, you could put it in the same thing. Is blues music cheerful, though?

Is it lift you? It's very uplifting, I think. Yeah. See, it's the same thing. People say, well, how can you like blues because it's so sad? Well, it isn't at all. It's the music of an oppressed people who came up with the music to uplift their spirits, really. Yeah.

Who are early memories for you as great test cricket is then? What was your generation to be? Well, Dennis Compton. Dennis Compton was the man, I suppose, because we, you know, and it was like he was one of the first people to market himself too, wasn't he, with the brew cream and everything. And I think that, you know,

I was very susceptible to all of that when I was a kid and I, you know, I went out and bought brew cream and everything because of Dennis Compton. But for me... That's quite a confession debate. Eric Clapton wearing bril cream, oh yeah, absolutely. Well, who didn't? Well, the trouble is you, look at the pillowcase in the morning, you know, it's another thing. But for me, it all came to life with beefy, you see.

And it is something about that, that even though I grew up around, you know, some of the guys that were in the Ripley cricket team were poachers, you know, there were lads, you know, they weren't, they were working class people, they weren't aristocracy at all. But for most people that cricket, you know, through the last couple of hundred years, has been often a game associated with the upper classes and public schools and the aristocracy and wealth and all that kind of thing. And I think until on an international level of tour, Beefy came along, it still had that atmosphere too, that it was a gentleman's game. Beefy brought something else. And it is easy to say that he was a kind of rock star of cricket. But I saw him as being just an every man. Beefy was the first kind of real every man on the English cricket scene.

And I, you know, from being very interested as a kid and having it as a part of my fabric of my life, I went away with music and I went off on the road. When Beefy came along, I wanted to come back. It drew me back. And I spent about a year hanging out with him actually in the 80s, just going to watch him play everyone. He was playing for Worcester.

Well, do you know? And I'm glad he brought that up. There was a game at Worcester, I think it was a Sunday League game. Worcestershire, Leicestershire. Yeah. And there was on this balcony, there was you. Yeah. There was Elton John.

Yeah. There was somebody, I think, from Queen, but it wasn't Brian May. Roger Taylor, maybe? who was it have been? But I see, I thought you'd come to see me. Well, if we'd known you were there, but I assumed you did.

And it was only later that I heard you come to see Ian playing. I was very disappointed. Yeah. Do you remember that game or not? Well, those were hazy days, Jonathan. They were slightly hazy days. Those are the days when you were kind of hope it would rain. Right.

That you could get in the bar. For me, anyway. And to be honest, you know and I stopped drinking about a year later after that and knocked it on the head for good and I stopped going to cricket for a lot a little while after that because I needed to be I needed to attach myself from places where there was a lot of alcohol you know right and we very alike me and beef in some ways in the way we look at live he's got a great sense of humour and I share that I hope but I remember when I was spending a lot of time with him there was

he pointed this out actually that we'd get pretty plastered the night before and he'd have a game the following way and I'd have nothing to do but he had a game in the morning when he got up he'd run five miles and you know 20 rashes of bacon and 10 eggs fried eggs and I'd get stuck into the vodka that was the difference between him and me yeah yeah how did he do it because we're not giving you any secrets here he's big he's a he's a he's a big man he's got a constitution of an ox really I mean he's still he's a he's a big fella yeah but he did I mean he would have often quite a serious night out and still be able to go out and play brilliantly the next day. I think it's a lot to do with the mindset. He's got a fantastic brain, Beefy. He's got a wonderful mind.

And I think he can, he employs that. When he's committed himself to something, he's very clear. So I'm always trying to get him to play. You know, we, we still, me and David put these games together, the Bunbury's versus the EC-11 or something like that. And I'm always trying to get Beefy to play, but he won't play. Because he's given his word. And I really respect that, you know, when You say, and I said to him, do you ever play? Have you ever done it anywhere on the choir? No. In the garden, maybe, I think, with his kids and grandkids.

Yeah, yeah, it's funny thing. Yeah. So when you were hanging out with them, it's quite intriguing, Eric, it's. I mean, we're getting to some nitty-gritty here. To hang out with Ian Boetham for a year, I would think it would be, A, very interesting, B, definitely exhausting. Yeah. And C, probably quite a lot of it off the record.

Well, a good deal of it off the record. And, but very far, I mean, we actually have the same kind of, of outlook on life is it cramming as much as you can and and and I do that you know to a certain extent too yeah I mean today I've driven up from Guilford to do this and I'm going to drive down to Wiltshire this afternoon to get ready to shoot tomorrow for the first day of the shooting season etc oh okay so but but I like I like pace and I like rhythm in my life and I think he's the same I don't think he could sit still very long no no fascinating character and you're presumably you've still in touch each other now are these days a lot of each other and yes

quite as much as we can. Your cricketing talent as such has it extended to the bumberries. Have you actually appeared with bat or gloves? I've played for the bumberries and I prefer to play against them to be honest. And we probably do that again. I mean, I love these one-off

games because you get fantastic character. I mean, my mate Bill Wyman will come and play and he's a fantastic bowler. I mean, he's a great cricketer. Is he still, it was all bowling with a fag on? Yes, always got a fagg going. Which is amazing. He's 70 years old. Didn't he get Charles Colville out first ball in one of these games?

I think he did, and poor old Charles. But Bill's no mug, is he? I mean, he delivers a cunning ball, and it's very high. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Bounces sometimes... It loops up into the air, lots of times. Hits the ground and then just dribbles along into the middle stump. It's brilliant.

Nothing like it. But there's another of your type who loves cricket. Isn't it great? I mean, here we are in my job, I find. Always trying to sell cricket to an extent. Not that you have to, because cricket's such a great game, which will be able to sell itself. Yeah.

But there is this, and you were saying earlier on, this sort of concept, being a middle-class game for middle-class people who went to public school or who still go to public school. But you just mentioned two people, well, yourself and Bill, who would necessarily associate you to with cricket? Isn't that, does that show the great breadth of diversity of this game? It does. I mean, unfortunately in the past, I think it's been so associated with country pursuits. I mean, because you've got to have a pitch, haven't you? Yes. And I think for, you know, in a city kids, it probably, I don't know how they, they're going to only see it on TV.

A car park. And we're actually. And we're actually. talking to Mervyn King, you know, the chairman of the Bank of England, who's started this thing called Chance to Shine, right, which I think sounds like a great thing to do. And I think the Bumbries, to be honest, have done incredible work to make the game appealing to young people. Yes. But I still think if you catch the bug,

there's nothing like watching a test match, really, to catch, when you get it, it's so powerful. It's a drug. Do you mind using your name or your image to promote something like cricket. I mean, there were youngsters listening now. Eric Clapton liking cricket. I would never have known that.

Wow, if he likes it, then that must be... I think that's a very good thing to do. I mean, yeah, I don't mind my name being mentioned it. I'm proud to be associated with such an honourable institution, really. Do you remember those photographs, going back to Ian again? You were very brave to go out in that fishing boat with him, won't you? Because, I mean, most people I know who had gone rowing out into a fishing boat, and that's a lovely photo, isn't it?

Well, English was rowing, actually. English was rowing and we dropped the anchor and he didn't know He didn't tell him I'm glad he said that because that sounds more Robotham thing But I think in the photograph I've seen It's been cunningly cropped I don't think actually I don't think he says you and Ian

Casting your rods Now I just got a feeling Have he virtually anybody else He'd have tipped the boat over and the person would have been in Yeah Yeah But he didn't do that to you No he didn't do that to me

No he's been very always been very respect I suppose because I'm a bit older he's got a bit of respect you know he shows me a little bit of respect I mean he does take the Mickey quite a lot but but at the same time I think I feel sometimes like I'm his elder brother you know we have that kind of a bit like that kind of religion okay that dinner the other day I think the other day at the start of the summer where you you performed for even organized by David that was a brilliant night

did you like it yeah and he sang boy the phone tonight live you sang it live yeah the amount of times I've listened to that song yeah Well, actually, it actually got me onto the dance floor, which is rare. Well, that was good, wasn't it? Everyone was up dancing. Phil Tuffner was up a bit earlier than possibly most people expected. I think Phil probably was on a different level to a lot of us, really. He might have been, yeah, another parallel universe.

Did you notice him? He's mortified. He is now mortified that he was up there. He was sort of swaying around quietly by himself. Well, we played a game, not long after. We played a Bumberry's EC game, not long after that, and he was very apologetic. I just thought that, well, that's the way he is. I mean, I've never met him before. Right.

And I thought he was okay. I mean, I've dealt, you have to learn to deal with people in the audience doing my thing. So I do, I do know I'd have to shut it out, believe it or not. Even tougher. What was the song you sang, you dedicated one to Ian? It was called Old Rocking Chair. That's right. Old Rocking Chair. It's a Hogi Carmichael song from the 30s. I thought, I think sooner or later he accepts that that's awaiting him. So that was the idea for everything. Yeah, just get ready, get ready. Could you ever see him in an old rocking chair? Yes, I can, actually. He's wise enough to know when to hang up his boots. I mean, he's hung, well, it obviously hung up the boots for the game,

but when he'll come to the realization that it's time to sit back. You think? He won't be some of those who just sort of suddenly just keels over at full tilt somewhere. Oh, God forbid. No, God forbid. Well, how old is he now? Mid-50s? He's in his mid-50s? Yeah, well, not old to go.

Yeah, as a grandfather. So, musically, Eric, I must ask before you go. What are you up to at the moment? Are you still busy as ever? the break i've been touring europe and america all through the middle of the year doing outdoor shows in the pouring rain trying to figure out whether or not i should stick it out in england for another year oh dear yeah or go and live somewhere else but there's not i mean it's the same everywhere is it somewhere else seriously well i just always thought about going to live in antiga because

you still i mean you see more cricket there than you were here actually it wouldn't be lords oh yeah it wouldn't be lords and well you don't need it because everyone well i think it's still There was a period in the Caribbean where American TV got everyone going for basketball. The young kids saw that, but I think it's faded off a bit. Now, it's come back to cricket, but there's nothing like watching village cricket in the Caribbean, too. No, no. It's fantastic. So, I mean, you go there quite a lot, do you, around here?

You've got a house, haven't you? I've got a house, though. Do you think there is still as much being played there now as the... I think it's come back. Do you? Yeah. Because I was mortified about the last time I went there on a Saturday afternoon, I saw some kids playing baseball in a park.

How long I was that? Maybe three or four years ago. I think you'll find it's come back. It's come back quite strong, yeah. I mean, they're not doing very well as an international team. No. They're struggling a bit, but that happens to everybody, doesn't it? They just go through a lull.

Do you mind that? I've talked about Antigua, you've changed onto this, but do you, this concept is it's win and take all in cricket, this game they're going to play there? No. You've read about that? I've heard about it. What do you think of that in cricket?

I don't like it, to be honest. It's pop. like pop media hitting cricket i don't want cricket to be caught up in you know instance you know instant prizes and it's not about that for me no you're an old traditionist don't you very much very conservative yeah yeah good oh that's very good and so i mean possibly antigo a bit of slowing down musically or you're still going to keep yourself are you going to be in your old rocking chair with you're just i'm raising young kids you have a double one i've got no i've got um i've got kids three kids under under seven and i don't want to grow up in the dark

You know, they need a bit of sunshine. So we might go and spend a bit more time there than I would normally, that's all. But I mean, I am English to the core, so I'll always be coming back here. Well, Eric still follows the game and plays when he can, and of course is still making hit records. And if you enjoyed that interview, how about this with another British cultural icon, John Cleese? I think people would be interested.

You don't mind analysing yourself a little bit. I mean, people think of you of the irascible. But that's only since 40 Towers, actually, Brian. They think of you as that. Yes, because what happens is that people form a kind of stereotype image of you, depending on what was the last thing that you did. And if you go back almost 20 years, because I've actually been on the box for 20 years this year, to the time when I started with David Frost in 1966.

Cross reports. Frost reports with Ronnie Barker, Ronnie Corbitt, Julie Felix, Tom Lehrer. In those days, I was very much a frosty sidekick and people would expect me to be around standing by David Frost. And then shortly after that, Python started, only about three years later. And then I was regarded as a great, kooky, zany, madcap. I can't remember what the other word was. Very often sort of the establishment figure who was being mocked, I mean, in pinstripe and bowler hat. But that's not what people remembered so much, although that was actually much more accurately what I did.

people kind of thought of me as just being wild and unpredictable, which unfortunately I've never achieved that. Are you wild and unpredictable? No, I'm rather tame and predictable and boring, actually, rather quiet. Slightly introverted, which surprises people, but you often find that people who are slightly shy and introverted, as I think I am, are able to kind of explode into action when they're given a socially sanctioned opportunity to do so,

like they're on the stage and they damn will have to be extrovert. The dead parrot I was fond of, and also the cheese shop. Do you remember the cheese shop? Oh, the cheese shop? Did you write those as well? Yes, most of them. One of my disappointments with Python is we always fell into the pattern of writing with the same people. I think it would have been much more fun if we'd mix the writing.

Did you all sit around a table? Well, we used to sit around for about three days at the beginning of a series and have lots of ideas and agree what we were going to write and then go off and write completely different things. I think that was because once somebody thought of an idea, there was no honour in writing it. I mean, the prestige comes with thinking of the idea of writing it. And then we used to get together about every week and read each other's material actors.

But not a great deal of passion for cricket amongst the Python group. But you used to have some sketches which took off me and Peter West once or twice. Oh, yes, you're absolutely right. I don't know who was the chap who put those in, because one of them obviously was fairly keen, because he obviously watched us very closely, took off all of them. You were very well-man. Well, I'm afraid that was me. Was this?

But you did, didn't you? And you made no pretense who it was. You said Brian and Peter were the word. That's right. Well, we're so enjoying bringing you these classic View from the Boundary interviews as part of our 40 from 40 series to make sure you don't miss anything

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