Test Match Special - #40from40: Gary Neville

Episode Date: June 11, 2020

Former Manchester United and England right-back Gary Neville reveals his stellar cricketing past during a fascinating interview from 2013.

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Welcome along to another delight from our 40 from 40 series listening back to some of our favourite view from the boundary interviews from the last four decades. Today we're heading back to 2013, really? And a memorable interview with one of English football's most respected voices. In a trophy-laden playing career that lasted almost 20 years, Gary Neville played for Manchester United 400 times and represented his country on 85 occasions. Of course, he and his brother Phil

starred at Old Trafford Football Stadium, but they could easily be breaking records at the cricket ground down the road, having been hugely promising batsmen in their teens. Well, Gary joined me in the TMS comedy box at the Old Trafford that I know best during an ashes test for a really fascinating chat, beginning, of course, with his love of cricket.

I mean, it was typical as a kid football in the winter, cricket in the summer. Me and my brother we would switch just like that and love each sport equally and played with the likes of Ronnie Arani or against Ronnie Arani against Michael Vaughn and a couple of other lads and it was good. It toughened me up for cricket, you know, because as a 14 year old you're playing at football, you're playing against people your own age. Whereas at cricket you're playing in the first team at Greenmount, you're coming up against professional cricketers in league cricket. Yeah, and it's a harsh environment and for a 14 year old it is. I remember getting dubbed once. I just couldn't believe it. And a couple of my senior teammates came and said, you won't do that against some, will you? And sort of, it toughen me. Engrained into your bit? Yeah, this is sport.

This is the, you know, you want to win. You want to win, you'll do anything to win. And I suppose it's not in the spirit of the game all the time. Dobbing, particularly a 14-year-old kid from a 50-odd-year-old old Kursley Pro, as he was at the time. But it toughen me up and made me realize that sport's tough and that you've got to work hard at it. What's dobbing now?

That's a sort of a very northern... A man-cadid, is it's when you... Oh, that? Yes. You ran out with, right. And bowler's end. Yes. Ooh.

Is that a northern term? I haven't heard a dobbing in that sense. Have you not? No. You've taught me something, thank you. I've got to jot that down. That's a new one. So backing up and off you go.

Backing up, yeah. Taking your veils. A bit of a naughty one. Yeah, that is. Why did you do it? He did it because he wanted to win. And I was 32 not out at the time. Yeah.

Yeah, and it was a league game. It was light was fading. We were chasing about 190. I think we're about 150 odd for six, seven. I was a young kid at the time. and just backing up at mine, a bit of eager and just clipped my bales off and away I go, I'm out,

and rest of my teammates outwardly went mad at him. Yeah, but that interest... Yeah, and the rest of the changing room a couple of them said, you won't do that again. You'd have to wise up. Yeah, what great lesson. It must have been mayhem and your back garden, Gary, surely.

I mean, there's you and your brother and your sister, for goodness sake, also international sports, sports government. I mean, how did you sort it out? You must have been, you know, it must have been come to bloodshed almost down now. It must be very competitive. It was competitive, and I think the fact that my mum would play netball, Monday night, rounders, Thursday night, hockey Saturday.

My dad would play cricket weekends. We'd always have sport to go and watch. We'd always be on the sidelines, either the netball court or the cricket pitch, just playing sports ourselves and loving it and growing up in a very sporting environment. And we weren't pushed in a sense that, you know, you must become a professional football player or a cricket player. But because they played sport, we were always encouraged to go and watch them. And when we watched them, we did it ourselves. We wanted to be cricket players. We wanted to be in both of them.

You wanted to be Mike Gatt in Alan Lamb. You wanted to be Brian Robson at football. It really did switch from summer to winter and just at our heroes. And like I said, we were as many cricketing heroes as we did. Football, we used to practice, imitate all the run-ups of the England. Bowling actions, yes. Eric Pringle wasn't very good.

Well, no, he had rather a sort of prancing sort of a run, wasn't it, for a big bloke? Yeah, and I always got it for six. I have a bowl with Derek Pringle. Well, I hope you gave it up. Yeah, I did. Went with the Imran Khan. Yeah.

When did it... You know, first of all, I mean, you can brag about your cricket here, Gary, because you're allowed to. It was test match special. But your brother probably was a bit better than you, was he? He was. He was a serious cricketer.

I mean, he broke Michael Leverton's and John Crowley's local records for Lancashire schools, played for England, was touring all around, playing for Lancashire Seconds at the age of 15, 16. He was a real talent, and he had a choice to make. He had a genuine choice.

Did he did he? Where Lancash were offering him a contract, Manchester United were offering him a contract and I'd started at Old Trafford the football Old Trafford yes the other one and and it was a case of I think he just followed in my footsteps obviously I'd enjoyed myself in my first 12 months we'd won the Youth Cup which was a big thing for Manchester United he'd seen the 1520,000 people turn up to watch an under 18s game and thought yeah I'm going to follow Gary into football and you know he'd have a real you know choice to make he played Andrew Flint off for many many years as a

a young cricketer. Would it have been a lesser football club? I wonder if Phil might have made that choice, do you think? I think so. I always think back to Philip in particular. I know a joke sometimes about the two of us in terms of cricket, but actually I would love to have seen how he would have developed as a cricket

player because he was well thought of. He was doing everything he could do at that age in terms of breaking the records of people who were going on and playing for England. So he was on the path and it's a shame that you couldn't play both football and cricket. seasons overlap. I think it's a shame now. We've got

an incredible cricket test match series on here. We've got England versus Australia and then the football season starts and in some ways it'd be great. I love football obviously I'm passionate about football but it'd be great to see this series out and then start the football and have a genuine break. We'd agree with that in this box.

Well we would but not least of course I suppose the both of you 25, 30 years ago you might have done a Chris Balderstone or Dennis Compton and actually being able to play both sports which of course you can't do anymore. can't and it's a shame. It is a shame, but I think the football season's got longer, the cricket season's got longer, the touring now of the cricket, you know, they're all year round, the lads now aren't, they don't get a break. So I think it's impossible on both

sports sides really to actually break that pattern anymore. I don't think you'll ever see it again. Now, the people that you've played with, you've shared quite a big stand with Matthew Hayden, I think, didn't you? What was it like batting with him? Well, he was young at the time. I'd say it was probably 1920. He was the professional art cricket club. We shared the stand of 200 plus in a Hamer Cup game against Astley Bridge, probably the peak of my quitting career playing with somebody that had then went on to play for Australia, but I mean, Greenmount where we played was a small ground, so for him, it literally was a flick off his pads and it was six every time.

He was an incredible talent. To watch him close up at the age of sort of I was 17 was, you were watching a different level. You really were watching a different level. Obviously, he went on to have a fantastic career, which is wonderful for him. But you knew batting at the end, this bloke's got something. You knew straight. I mean, the size of him was one thing, the sheer presence. So everything was just so simple.

He had so much time. And when you're watching cricketers as a youngster as I was, I was a batsman, more a batsman than a ball. And the really good one, just everything looks simple and in control and never flustered. And he was just absolutely wonderful at seeing the ball. The planes are quite good. Shots just while they're talking, you know.

Cricketers can't help it? Can we? We do. We do our little hand signals. That's pretty good. Jeffrey would be impressed with that. I don't think so. He's not impressed with anything. I know. I'm glad you met him briefly, though, saw him in action. Though these Lancashire League clubs are great, aren't they? I mean, the whole question, I mean, I was lucky enough to play for Haslington once or something,

and Richton once or twice. And, I mean, they're just such an important part of, I don't if they still are or not, I hope they are, but of the sporting map in this part of the world. Absolutely. It's tough. It's tough cricket. You think the professionals who've been through, I mean, the club that I played at Greenmount, had Franklin Stevenson as professional. It had Mark Taylor. What a character, he was, by the way.

Incredible character, but driven. Driven. You think that you think a professional, he'd come to a cricket ground, a cricket club. He'd have a year, he'd come and pick up his money. It's quite easy for him. But no, they immersed themselves in the local club. They'd become part of the club for a year.

Mark Taylor was the same. Matthew Hayden was the same. They were a real responsibility. And they'll leave a legacy at the club. They'd leave a legacy with the young people. And I think that to me is it's important cricket around this area. It's real. It's tough.

Yes. You know, you think about the same. sledging that goes on obviously at the highest level, but it's just the same at the lowest level. You literally will have to be, you know, brave and courageous in your game. I remember Steve, remember Steve Dublin? I don't know if you remember him at all, West Indian. Steve Dublin? Yeah, he was a professional that played locally.

And I remember Jason Kerr's father, Lenny Kerr was fielding at Midon, and it was my first game against Tongue. And Steve Dublin was a West Indian bowler. And he stood there at the end. And I'm sure it was a conversation I was meant to hear because Lenny sort of went to him, let me calm down a little bit. of moved his hands downwards and Steve Dublin shouted to him, how old is he?

And he went, he's only 14. He went, he's old enough. You know, and I thought. Nasty. Yeah, and I remember playing the first shot from square leg, thinking, you know, this guy's going to knock my head off. But that was part of actually growing up and being tough. That's what I say football, you don't have that experience.

You don't have that one-on-one experience, that jewel as a football player when you're 14. Because you're playing against children your own age. 14-year-old versus 14-year-old. Actually at cricket, you're playing against, you know, widely old pros who were 50 odd year old or you were playing against the young ambitious West Indian fast bowler

who was coming into the league and trying to make a career in first class cricket and you literally were playing in a tough sporting arena as I found it at that time but it certainly brought me on and it's a lovely story that because it does in a way illustrate what sledging is and I had this conversation with Glenn McGrath

actually in the last test match it isn't all effing and blinding and that it's just that really clever little bit that goes it's psychological really And there was nothing unpleasant about what he said at all, except, ooh, it worked. Absolutely. And I think that, to be cricket is unique like that. I think when I think of my childhood, I think West Indies must have about 15 slips in my childhood.

When you're watching in the 80s. You just think of Marshall and Garner coming into ball, and you just think of all those slips. Or you see warm ball and everyone's round the bat. And it's intimidating. It's intimidating. It's a unique experience. Chattering away. Yeah, just chipping away at you.

And football doesn't have that, you say. Even in the big stuff When you're playing Liverpool Isn't that stuff between the players? There is a bit, there is a bit And a few of us were a little bit chippy at times And I was one of them But not all the time

You wouldn't go out in a game To think I'm going to just disturb him I'm going to say something to him Unless you felt there was a point in the game That you could gain an advantage But I think in cricket You definitely would You definitely would

Go out with that intention To try and intimidate the batsman And to affect him Look at this picture of him given here Do you remember this? Yes, I do remember it. You're Matthew Hayden. I don't pay, oh, it's the Bury Times.

You're featured in the Bury Times. The colour photo with Matthew Hayden. Two-ton route to cup final. There we go, Green Man. What did it say here? The Mass 278 for two against Astley Bridges. Thanks to two individual hundreds. Gary Neville, comma,

an apprentice footballer with Manchester United, strolled to the middle to join 21-year-old Australian professional Matthew Hayden. It's all there to record. If you've got that to me, you've got a little cutting. Yes, it was the best moment.

Forget all the England stuff, Gary. Forget all the Manchester United medals. It's their stuff like that. That's special, isn't it? It was the best moment in my cricket career, but also it finished my cricket career because it just mentions there that I was an apprentice at Manchester United.

And my youth team coach actually didn't realize that I'd carried on playing cricket in the summer. So he got in trouble. So he basically said, what's this? What you're doing? You've got to stop. You're not insured and all the rest of it. So that was actually, probably, I would say,

my last game of cricket. I actually played in the final. Right. Against Bradshaw, we lost, unfortunately. But I actually played one more game of cricket after that. It's great you can remember all these games. I mean, for all the stuff that you've done, all the football that you've had since, you still remember playing in these games?

I remember everything. I really do. I remember as an under-13, Lancashire, under-13 player, being left out partway through the season and the upset and disappointment that that caused me at the time. I remember getting back in the year after at under-14 level, and I then remember being quite prominent in the under-15s. I remember all the individual experiences, not walking for my school team on the 49. Oh, did you?

You know, Nick won't behind and thought... It's a bit unpopular with me that, Gary. Yes, I know, but I didn't do. And I think that to me... Yeah, I didn't walk, and it was selfish. It was selfish. And it was a way in which to say, I didn't walk. It wouldn't be something that I don't...

I don't think my grandparents would have been proud of me if you're not walking because they used to come and watch me all the time. But I wanted to win. And that's why I've got sympathy now for somebody who's out there in that middle, and they desperately, they've fought all the... the career to get into the middle and all of a sudden that moment comes and it's through disappointment sometimes through that wanting to win I know you should always say sportsmen should think more and they should pay more attention and the responsibility that they have but

sometimes you can't help but getting caught up in the actual event and the game and the moment that you're in as a as a sportsman when it's your job as well that's that's the difference I guess and did you have any feeling of that do you take that with you and two I mean okay you stood but you obviously felt a bit guilty about it did you afterwards perhaps or not as a words in your mouth? Probably not guilt too much. I get over things pretty quickly. Fair enough.

You know, and when I played at Manchester United, you know, I think at times, you did things looking back now, you think, I should have done better there, I should have done things more responsibly, should have behaved differently. But generally, it was always through a will of wanting to win and wanting to give you best,

and sometimes you disappoint yourself, and we can't all be perfect, and I played in a team with 22 members in a squad, and you're all different. you've got the kid who's quiet, you've got the kid who will try and take every single advantage that you can, you've got the flary one, the one who likes to go out, the one who likes to wear the smart clothes,

the one who wears the shades on, even when it's not sunny. You have all these types of different characters, and because of being used to that in a football environment, I get used to the fact that we can't all be the same. That's what makes it interesting, the fact that Warner's out there now batting, and they're all booing him. That's got to be better for the event, for the theatre,

than having somebody out there who's not B&B. I remember coming here in 2005 on the same. Saturday and the Sunday in Gillespie was getting absolutely battered off that end of the ground over there and I'm sat below him thinking this is brutal but it's what I wanted I wanted the theatre of the gladiatorial part of sport I like it enjoy it do sportsmen have to get over that do I mean to get to the very top do you need to be able to cope with with that sort of well not abuse that's not the right word but but banter and hostility from a crowd I mean you again know plenty about that with your football can you can you block it out have Is that the art in fact? You have to. I think from my point of view, I was always all's fair. Honestly, I was out on that football pitch and I was playing away from home at Anfield or Ellen Road

or at Main Road. And I knew full well that we were going to get some stick. And when you know something before the game, you can't use it as an excuse after the game. You can't as a sportsman. You're representing your fans, your teammates, you're proud of what you're doing. And the fact that you come off after the game

and said, yeah, but there's a little bit noisy out there for me today. This fan said that I was this or that. I mean, you've got no excuse. You've got to really develop a skin that's thick enough to get over that. And I think cricket is more difficult from that point of you. I think when I remember playing cricket when I was younger at league level, you can hear every individual shout. Whereas at football, it's usually just a noise,

whereas actually, I'm sure Gillespie over there, you know, it goes a little bit quiet. He's down there by himself. He was down there by himself, third man. And he's literally on his own. And he's got those fans behind him. And he knows every single shout could hurt him. you know, penetrate his skin and make him feel less good about himself.

So you do have to get used to that, I think, as a sportsman. If you can't cope with that, then you shouldn't be playing top-level sport. Do you think the batting and that whole question of union mate is 20 yards away and you are out there together? You mentioned the people around the bat and so on. Did that help your football in a sense as well? I mean, to have experienced, you know, I think that's the brilliant thing about cricket and it's such a good thing for kids to learn.

You know, teamwork. You're out there with your mate. You've got these people who all want to be nasty to you. That is quite a hardening, toughening experience. Do you think that helped your football as well? Definitely. As I say, I think during my childhood, I think cricket toughened me up, probably more than football, in the experiences that I had playing at the local league levels.

You mentioned, the Richtons and the Lancashire League. We used to play in the Lancashire Knockout and all those trophies. And you wanted to win. I remember playing at Blackpool once in a game, the Lancashire knockout and getting bowl first ball and feeling embarrassed. That feeling of embarrassment, then the week after you might score 50 and you feel delighted.

But it was in an environment, where you had grown men who had jobs during the week who wanted to be there at weekend who were giving up their family time to come and play cricket and it was serious it wasn't, you know, we weren't messing about it wasn't just for enjoyment, it was serious, they wanted to win and the team that you were playing against

wanted to win and that to me is what brings me, the gladiatorial aspect of sport is important to me it's important, that's why I come to see England and Australia, I want the Australians to be narky like they used to be that's why I expected the Australians I want them to be narkey, I want us

this England team is fantastic and I've grown up watching England for 30 years but I trust this England team probably more than any England team that I've... I do. It does all the preparation? It's the way they play you mean? I just think that I always get the feeling with this team that they're together I think that if you look at if one of them fails the other one

will score and they've obviously got a lot of quality and it's down to players but I generally think through the line up that this is an England team that as a fan you can trust more than England teams potentially in the past. That's not to say that we haven't had great England teams but the ones that I've seen He knew full well when you were playing us West Indies

when I was growing up that it was done game Malcolm Marshall's steaming in that the slip cordon's there and eventually he was going to get you and the same with Warren when he was born on McGrath you always thought got the feeling you weren't confident we'd get through this test not just because of quality you didn't think whether we were mentally tough enough

or generally a mixture of both really and I think that in terms of this team now this morning I had no doubts they would save the follow and I knew that they would get past it because you thought they're reliable they don't let you down to him many times. See, I'm going to show you all our cakes and things.

This is a commentary box now. Look at all these cakes and things we get here. How have you taken to that side of the fence? It's been an easy jump voice. Well, no, you haven't. Quite well. Can you not see? They haven't got any over there in your sky box.

But have you taken to the punitary side? Do you enjoy it? I mean, you must enjoy it. Of course you do. But was it easy for you? It wasn't easy, no. I mean, the first few shows, if I looked back at them, it was so fast, speaking so quickly.

I speak quickly anyway, but everything was just a blur really and I needed to slow myself down but I've really enjoyed it I really have enjoyed it the good people they look after you and I think it's the same in all media I appreciate actually more now I've finished the media and the role of the media and the messaging and the rest of it you know when I was a when I was a player if I had lost a football match there's no way I was going out there to go and speak generally more often than no you really didn't want to you just felt as though you'd let people down the last thing you wanted to but actually looking back now you could front up a

little bit more you could take more responsibility I think that's something that I'm conscious of that I think sportsmen nowadays this is the way in which they can communicate with the fans it always has been but actually I think when you see a great interview and I was watching the first test and I was gripped and I saw the interview after of Michael Clark and I thought

it was sensational. Good, isn't he? I really did I thought I was watching it and he was the enemy, he's the loose, he's the opposition but I just thought listening to him he came, he was humble in the way in which he talked about his team's performance but also the way in which he actually said that he should have made better decisions on the

decision review, you know, that he needed to get better himself. I think when you are honest like that, I think you've got a real chance. And I think to me that that's the sort of template of how, the Olympians last year, they come off the track, they've just lost the gold medal, they've been training for four years and yet they're still front up. Absolutely. And that's the real measure, isn't it? Yeah. And I think that's something that I think we can all learn from in all different sports, but football in particular as well. We can, you appreciate it more when you finished. And that's, I'm not having to go here at football players who are still playing. Because when you're playing, you're in a bubble.

You're all thinking about your own job, your own team. your own three points but actually there is a bigger thing out there that really you've got a bigger message to be able to get across and more you have more power and influence than you ever recognise when you come into the media you appreciate that more do you have to be in your bubble I mean I think England actually the current cricket team are very much in a bubble yes some of their interviews and they're quite short and sharp and there's not much given you know they're in that sort of environment themselves do you have I mean I think

Manch United people say when Alex Ferguson possibly you know created this sort of an environment. Do you have to have it? The great teams, do they have to have it? The one that I've played in, the Manchester United team, we under St Alex Ferguson, we did, that siege mentality, the island, you're on the island, the sharks are all around you in the sea, don't let anybody on, that sort of mentality always was the way forward. We looked after one another, we protected one another.

You think about David Beckham coming back from a World Cup in 98, and the whole country's against him, but Manchester United fans, turn on the rest of the country if you like at the time and not necessarily the right thing to do but bring your own in protect them look after them create a siege mentality

that was Sir Alex Ferguson's one of his ways of doing things this England team now the tight when I say I trust them you can see that they don't let people in they maybe are a little straight in their interviews I can't say that that's wrong from a sporting point of view

but I think when you finish you maybe look back and think maybe I could have been a little bit more relaxed but it's too late then sometimes I suppose it's about the education I think that to be fair it is getting better the idea that you see pre-match interviews this morning

on the pitch with players that may not have happened it wouldn't happen in football too much so I think football has got a bit to go in that respect but I can understand totally as the professional and the footballer and the cricketer

why you do want to keep things tight and not let any messages out it's a mad world out there and anything you say is reported in a hundred different ways yeah Gareth been lovely to have met you thanks so much for coming in really appreciate it

and it's lovely to have met you I hope you enjoyed listening to Gary Neville. Just imagine if he and Phil had ended up playing cricket for England. Well, our library of classic View from the Boundary interviews keeps growing. You just need to subscribe to the podcast on BBC Sounds to make sure you don't miss anything, such as this, the first ever view from the boundary, Ben Travers, in 1980. Oh, and I saw WG in one of the only two matches in which he played with Jack Hobbs.

Oh, really? or which Jack Hobbs played with him. He used to take the London County team to the Oval right at the beginning of the season. This was Jack Hobbs' first play. I saw Jack Hobbs play his first innings in first class cricket, made 80 on. I must tell you a bit more about WG.

Well, I want to ask, what would he like as a man? Oh, well, of course, he was a beautiful chap. A great thing about WG in his time was he was the great predominant figure of cricket, more so, I think, than any other individual since his time. He had a rather odd stance in that he cocked his left toe up. He had his left heel on the ground,

cocked his toe up and stood, and he also, in those days, stood and awaited the delivery of the ball when the bowler was half well through his run fast bowler with his bat off the ground some comments have been made in recent years about Martin Bassman who'd done that Tony Gregg and Amos and Breely and so on

and Gooch that was now but he started that or he did it in his day did you hear him talk Yes, he had a, he had a, like another very large man, G.K. Chesterton, he had a curiously, a falsetto voice coming out of so huge a frame. He was also, incidentally, you know, he was a practicing doctor. My mother was born and brought up in Clifton, and W.G. Grace was their family doctor. None of them lived very long Oh, except one Well, he was always playing cricket

Well, she became on that Did you ever see him disagree with an umpire? I mean, he's got this repudence Disagree When he made his hundred He, well I saw make his hundred, He was caught at short leg by a pro called Brockport, a silent pro off the morning of Lockwood

For 24, 22 or something And He made out that This was a bump more He hit them all on the ground. And he went towards Brockle, flourishing his bat over his head, as if he was going to fell him.

And, of course, the umpire at Peter who stood there, he utterly intimidated, not like what he gave him a lot out, and so he went on to make a hundred. Thanks to joining us, and remember to subscribe to the Test Match special podcasts on BBC Sounds. Alan Shearer and Ian Wright are in my kitchen.

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