Test Match Special - #40from40: Graham Taylor and Roy Hodgson

Episode Date: June 18, 2020

Former England football managers Graham Taylor and Roy Hodgson chat about their love of cricket and careers in football in interviews from 1991 and 2012.

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podcast, classic view from the boundary. Hello, Jonathan Agnew here as we walk down memory lane with a classic view from the boundary. Today, we're going back to July 1991 and a test match between England and West Indies at Edgebaston. England were struggling at four for two in their second innings, with the tourists on their way to taking a two-one lead in the five-match series. The West Indies attack featured the likes of Ambrose, Patterson, Walsh and Marshall. England were led by Graham Gooch, with Hugh Morris, making the first of three test appearances. In the old commentary box at the city end of the ground,

who were joined by the then-England football manager Graham Taylor, a passionate cricket fan and fascinating student of the psychology of coaching. With a steel band playing on the outfield, Taylor told Brian Johnston about his love for the game. My heroes basically were more of a national basis, really, because I was a minor countess situation. My first things were obviously May and Ken Barrington I never met but I used to when unfortunately when I heard that he passed away that was one of the things that will always remain with me

the fact that Ken Barrington had died to a relatively young man as I was at the time was a very upsetting I'd never met the man but he was a throwback to my boyhood where these people meant a lot to me and I'll always remember Ken Barrington yet I never met him. He was very intense guy who took things terribly to heart. Did he? Yes. And I mean I took him back after he played up here

and he played a very, very slow innings up to, I think he was about an hour between 89 to 100. And then when he got to 100 he hit five falls running or something. And he got minutes to criticise for that and I took him back. And he was so depressed and it meant so much. He was actually dropped. dropped at one test match. He came back and made a couple more hundred scores. But he was, everything meant so much to him. And on this West Indies tour, a particular one, you know, he'd taken it very badly along.

Mind you, we'd just seen Marshall stay an hour without scoring, and nobody makes any comment about that, you know. Well, I know, but because he fought for England. I mean, it was like seeing the Union Jack walk out when Bangton went up. Well, I think probably that was something that he was the sort of character you would love to have in any football team. Well, I think in anything, and I think at the present situation, I mean, even the cricket situation. When you're up against it, you want the fighters. You've got to have the fighters. You've got to have those people who show some stickability. I mean, I know that you've asked me about the football scene. I mean, basically, over the last three seasons, certainly since the last

European Nations Cup in Germany, the England football team have had some very good results. I mean, they've played 38 games and only lost twice. That's at national level. And it's a very, very good run. And I mean, I'm pleased to be... the latter part of it, but I very much recognise that it's when you come to the European championships, it's when you come to the World Cup, that people actually assess in their minds how successful any national side is. But it's a good run over three years that the football side has had. You realise your captain is a very good wee-keeper. Oh, I realise that, yes. You let him off enough to play. Well, fortunately, as I say, he's contracted to Tottenham and that's their problem.

But I know that Gary is very, very interested in as a good cricketer in his own right. But he could have played for Leicester, I think, at cricket, and he's a member of MCC by right, I mean, he... Well, he actually did it, I mean, I think I'm about sort of 8,000 and odd in the list, and I just miss out. I really was rather foolish, because I believe if you play so many games for certain teams... If you're putting it would be a player, you can play six games in one scene, six or next. Something before you're 40 or 41, though, I was reading all of these regulations, and I looked at it. And when I was reading these, I was 42, and I thought, I've missed out again, that I? So I'm about 8,000 on the list

They keep asking me for extra little bits of money To get me lower down the list, so You're both of all No, I'm not really a ball I like the batty I like batting In a funny sort of way My father has always said to me

That one of the worst things And I suppose I'll open a A sort of talking point here But one of the worst things he ever did Was to send me for coaching He said that when I was a, when, before I had that I used, when I saw the ball, I used to try to hit it.

And when I came back from coaching, then in fact, I tried to play everything technically correct. And that he always felt that as a young, I mean, I think it would have very much liked me actually to being able to develop not only my footballing ability, which fortunately I got a career in professional football, but my critical ability as well. But he often felt that after I had about 18 months coaching, and I came back and I then tried to play everything. Now, I always remember as the England, anything down my leg's side as a left-handed, I loved it. Yeah. But then after the coach, I seem to have to play every ball properly.

I think you see, all coaches weren't right. I mean, you get someone like Dennis Compton, who was a natural. He went to a chap called Archie Fowler at Lords in the 30s, who saw him and said, right, don't, I won't tell you anything, but he did just teach him the very basic forward and defensive stroke. Because Dennis, in the end, was one of the best defensive batsmen, if necessary. Yeah. They let him do all the unorthodox strokes. Don't try and do the orthodox strokes.

I'm sure that's right. I'm sure. I mean, being involved and being accused of many things, really, as a manager and listening to people say as coaches as well. I mean, I think that the worst thing to no coaching in many respects is better than bad coaching, and I've always believed that. I always look back. I don't know really the person who's responsible for me,

but I always, one thing I remember about that coaching was a, this business that you must play yourself in. Now, prior to that, if a ball had been bowed to me, the first ball, and it was there for hitting, I always used to think, well, you know, you used to hit that one. But that's the one thing I always remember, play yourself in. And I tended whenever I play cricket to be quite boring. But the worst thing about trying to play yourself in, I always find,

is if you get out. You've lost the whole thing anyhow. You've lost it anyhow. But basically, a bad ball is a bad ball. But anyhow, not that I would ever have made any real level as a cricketer, but I enjoy it. I know, but I don't know, I know you've been manager of Lincoln, Watford, and Nelsonville. How much coaching have you done yourself? Well, yeah, I mean, that's the interesting thing in,

because I think that I've done a reasonable amount of coaching, but I'm a big believer in playing to people's strengths, and I've always believed that. In other words, I don't believe in taking people out and coaching on a real weakness that they have. in coaching people to their strengths. Because I think that something that a person is good at, one is interested in getting better at that.

And I think that it gives him a tremendous amount of confidence. And consequently, any weaknesses, and we all have weaknesses, I tend to feel that those weaknesses improve through having a greater confidence. I think if you concentrate very much so on somebody's weaknesses, you don't necessarily get the bigger rewards. I think if you coach on somebody's strengths, you get big rewards.

And then the weaknesses, nobody's perfect. The weaknesses look after themselves because the strengths come through and they override the weaknesses. So in many respects I'd like to think that both individually and collectively my coaching is based on, or has been based, very much on getting people to believe in themselves and to do what they're good at and to do it even better and to let the bad things look after themselves and ignore them. You've got to be a tremendous psychologist though, haven't you? You've got to treat every single person differently because everyone is different.

Well, everyone is different. All this business, you know, about people say, I don't like it when people say he treats everybody the same, because I don't. I'll treat you the same if you are the same, but you're not. So you treat everybody differently. But I think overall what you try to do is to try to get a feeling that, in fact, you have a great confidence in your own ability,

and collectively. I think that's very important. How do you get to know people? I know there's a circuit. You'll go around it a lot, but to get an individual, do you wait a way to come and join the people? Well, I mean, I was 20 years as a manager because I had to finish a game relatively at a young age. Well, just tell us about that you had a hip problem.

I had a hip injury, yes. So I finished when I was 28 and I became the manager of Lincoln. I mean, basically through, I became the manager simply because there was a boardroom difference as there tends to be in football and somebody supported me. Yes, well, it's no difference in any shape. and my first nine games as a manager we drew seven and lost two and I remember people at Sinsel Bank at Lincoln shouting Taylor out Taylor out Now when you're 28 years of age

and you're married and you've two girls under sort of four as they were at that time or under three and you've got a mortgage Now that's pressure Pressure's not the top of the first division and pressure in many respects He's not really being the manager of the England's high

Pressure really is basically if you get out of a job and you don't know where your next job is going to come from. I tell what I'd always done, if I'd be in a manager, before I signed a contract, I would say I cannot be sacked in the middle of the season. I'm prepared to beset at the end of the season or to my contract to be terminated. I think sacked is an awful word, anyhow. Well, I think there are two things, really, that we ought to look at, really, from manager's points of view. I think that it's a given take. I think if you can't be sacked, then neither should you walk out.

No, right. You're bashed by your contract. In that situation, I think contract should be something. But unfortunately, not just in football, but in a lot of sports, contracts seem to be just a word now. And when it suits either party, they're very easily terminated one way or the other. And that, I think, doesn't help the status or standing of any of the professional games. I mean, how are you influenced by the press?

You get a bad press. I mean, poor Mickey Stewart gets a bad press. When things go right, it's all okay. But, I mean, do you read them a lot? Do you try and meet the people and talk to them about it? I think what I try to do, I try to, in fact, be very open in terms of answer questions. You know that you're going to be abused. I mean, the disappointing aspect is that so many things that you say are abused and misused to create headlines.

But I don't think I'm particularly going to alter that. So one of the things that I very much decided is that, and I don't mean to be offensive to anyone, but I basically read as little as I can. Far more people know about the things I'm certain that have been written about me and about my team than I do know so. And it's the best way to go on without it. Now another thing, we're slightly critical these days

of the training methods used by cricket. We think they overdo it and that if you play enough cricket you don't need to do all these extraordinary exercises and we'd look back on the past when they didn't have pulled hamstrings and all these sort of things, the kiddies tend to, and now they tend to

and yet they run around the ground for 40 minutes. What is your view of the training of cricket? Well, I mean, I don't know too much about the training. What I do know, you have to be fit to play it. You have to be fit. In this day and age, you have to be fit to play any sport at the top level. Now, I don't, what I do know is this. There are specific fitnesses, and that I, as a professional football,

before I came a manager, in my opinion, was fit to play football. But I'm pretty certain I wouldn't have been fit to play cricket. There's a complete difference between getting fit to play football and being fit to sometimes stand and feel for a day and a half and also to bat with the concentration. So I think there's specific ways of being fit. But I really do believe to play any sport at the highest level in this day and age.

And I think we've all got to be very steady. We look back and we say it was like this and we say we did this. But I think we've got to be very steady as to when we look back and say, well, what was right and what was correct so many years ago is now right and correct here. I think that the level of fitnesses to play at the highest level of any professional sport, I think you do have to get a degree of fitness. Now, how you obtain that in cricket is up to the people who play cricket.

I wouldn't be so stupid as to come and say that I know how you can get cricketers fit because I've never had to stand in the field for a day and a lot. I mean, undoubtedly, football now is much faster because they're so much fitter. Yes. And in the old days when I used to go and watch Alex James and stuff, I mean, it had all the time the world to sell four dummies and pass the ball. three times and he wouldn't get away to it today. Well no, but I think cricket must

be the same, Brian. I mean, I see these fellas bowling and the pace that these fellas are bowling. Now, I've never played it. But, I mean, it's wrong. So many people talk to me about the England football side. I'm not necessarily talking about it. And the interesting thing, I consider

myself, rightly or wrongly, an expert in that field. I don't consider myself an expert in either cricket or athletics, which are my next loves. So I can spectate at cricket. I can spectate at athletics far better than I can do at football. I'm like Freddie Truman.

You know Freddy Truman when he sits and watches? I've been listening to. There is an ex-top-class professional cricketer. And I would say this. He's watching this game with a very critical line. Now, I watch football like that. And I think I'm probably a bit like Fred when I watch football matches.

But when I'm watching cricket, I'm spectating. And I think, is he a hard? For a minute, I'm appointing you manager of the cricket team now for about a minute and a half during the lunch interval, what would you do in the dressing room now? Would you say anything to them? Would you leave it to the captain, who's after all still batting? What would you do?

Captain or manager, what it is now, you're in there. You're scrapping boys. I'll tell you what, you're scrapping now, and you're scrapping on a wicket. It's unpredictable. Now, there's not a lot we can do about it. If you get a ball that now shoots through like that, there's not a lot you can do about it.

If you get a ball that comes up over your head, there's not much you can do about it. But you can do something about silly shots. You can do something about that. And I think that's the thing that you're saying now, and you've got to have a great belief in yourself. And what you don't when you do, you don't be walking about with your heads down.

I mean, I'm risking things here, and I know I'm on the air, but like you and a few of us, I would have liked to see Mike Etherton get to the wicket a bit quick. He walked in very dejected in as if he didn't want to play. And I'm saying this, you know, with all that, it creates an image, you see, and people look at that, and they wonder, well, hold on a minute. Now, they may be totally wrong, and I could be wrong saying this, but you're watching that.

And there's a lot of supporters here are watching that. And you've got to say, hey, we're in here, we're in here for a scrap and we're here for a fire. But this is, I don't care what anybody says, this is the best cricket side in the world. Oh, of course they are. I mean, they are a marvellous side of the way. We must have to take that away. This is different, you see, with cricket. The captain on the field is in charge and can be visibly in charge.

It's very difficult to see what your relationship with the captain in soccer is the major. You're sitting there on the bench or in the director of things. How much does the captain have to say out on the field? Well, I think it's different. One of the biggest things I think that we do find is that the leaders tend to be less and less probably in this game. We all tend to want to follow a little bit. I think it's a way of society more than anything else.

But we don't have so many characters. When I say characters, I'm not talking generally. Characters in terms of leadership. In football, I don't think. I think the amount of excellent captains or you can say, as a manager, you can sort of pretty well say, okay, a couple of things, then you'll leave it. There seems to be fewer of those about.

But the role of captain on a cricket side has always seemed to me more equivalent to the role of manager, almost like a player manager. He's in charge. He's in charge. You see, the decisions have got... I think a lot more decisions have got to be made in a cricket match by the captain

than decisions in 90 minutes made by a captain in football. Interestingly, one of the last few people to combine the two sports is Phil Neal, and I signed Phil Neal as a footballer at Lincoln City. Do you teach him Russian as well? Well, no. No, he had already got that, but I always remember he's done so well as the captain. It's very interesting because a young boy, I have to say this, I couldn't see captaincy material basically in film, certainly not on football,

but how well he's done at cricket. But he's probably the last of the two that's compensated. combine the two scores. Well, it's a fascinating comparison. We've got to stop now because time is getting back. I must say it's going to be the 13th match under your management, the next one, which takes place in September. Against Germany, yes, against, as I say, the United Germany.

Well, it won't be an unlucky 13, would it? No. No, it won't be unlucky. I mean, the point about everything, not that it will happen, is that it sounds rather boastful to say I expect it to be undefeated, not my self-person, but the team. And hopefully, I mean, what's the point of the point? going into any game expecting to lose it. So, I would expect to beat Germany and Turkey and Poland and France and going on.

I expect to be, but the time comes when you don't and you've got to know how to lose. That's the important thing. Well, I'm afraid we've had a bit of practice without a cricket. Anyhow, got a good luck with the soccer. Graham Taylor, has managed the England soccer team, and wish him luck in the World Cup when it comes and we should be following with great interests. Thank you so much. Thank you very cricket lover and he's been watching today and he'll be watching with great intensity

after lunch to see whether England could improve on their four for two. Well, England did improve on their four for two, eventually all out for 255. It wasn't enough, though, with West Indies reaching their target, of 152, just three down, Carl Hooper and Viv Richards, seeing them home. The late Graham Taylor wouldn't be the last England football manager to join us? The summer of 2012 will live long in the memory for us in Britain, a seemingly endless stream of golden days as the Olympic Games arrived in London. Personally, it was a new challenge at a familiar venue as I covered the archery at lords of all places.

Well, prior to the game's beginning, England started a test series against a mighty South African side, led by our now colleague Graham Smith. The series would eventually see South Africa become the number one test side in the world. The first match of the series has played at the Oval. It was a chastening few days for England's bowlers put to the sword as Hashim Amla scored an unbeaten 311 in a first inning's total of 6303. 37 for two declared. Just as that remarkable batting performance concluded, I crossed the ground to the pavilion where the England football manager Roy Hodgson was waiting in the

sunshine. Just a month earlier, Hodgson had seen his side knocked out of Euro 2012 on, you guessed it, penalties against Italy. But here he was enjoying some downtime in South London following his other great sporting passion. It's such a great experience to watch cricket from this vantage point, you know, where you feel almost that you're part of the game. It's so different to watch it on TV, which is what I normally do. Yeah. And the Surrey, can I agree, the club is not new to you, is it? This is your neck of the woods, really, around here, is it?

Oh, yeah, sorry, it was my team, as it were, because I was born in Croydon, which was Surrey in those days. It's now really a part of London, but it used to be Croydon Suddy. So, of course, as a child growing up, you support your team, which happened to be Crystal Palace for football. Sorry for cricket, so I have some memories of those days sort of following it. But I only made one visit here, and that was in the early 1960s when I was still a teenager, and that was to see the Australian visiting team.

Ah, why did they draw you here in particular, just because they're the Aussies, I suppose, isn't it? Well, I suppose, you know, they were one of the top teams at the time. I think they were preparing for a test match, and I was a big fan of one of their batsmen, a guy called Neil Harvey. Oh, yeah. You're not alone. Very stylish. He's an old boy now. He's still with us, you know?

It's good here. No, he was a wonderfully stylish player. He was everything I would have loved to have been if I'd have had any talent for the game. Which you had none, you were saying? Basically, yes. And how do you know that? Did you play a bit? I mean, school he must have played, and so I was lucky to go to a school which had a good cricket team,

so we won a couple of finals, and I played a little bit of club cricket after that when I was obviously playing football here. But I left England, really, to play football in South Africa in 1973, and then again, I left in 76. to start my coaching career, so I've had a very long hiatus from the game. Yeah, and do you feel that you've sort of lost touch with cricket?

I suppose these days it's easier, isn't it, with the internet and so on, to watch, to keep up with things. But I suppose if you're away for that length of time, it's a big chunk away. Well, my memories really go back to those, you know, players of the 50s and early 60s where, you know, you're young, you sort of really immerse yourself in a sport. I mean, obviously football was always my favourite sport, but I love cricket as well.

And from that time, I can remember lots of names and lots of players. But then, as I say, when I went abroad, once you go to Sweden and Switzerland and Italy, you can virtually forget cricket unless you are a real aficionado in a game, because you'd have to work so hard to find out what was going on. Yeah. But Surrey, of course, were so strong in those days, weren't they? Laker, Lott, PBAH May, people like that. I suppose John Edrich starting to break into the scene.

Are those the names we're talking about? Absolutely. Alex's father, of course, Mickey. Alex Benzer. I remember them all, yes, I remember those names, Ken Ballington. I remember all those names very well. I remember seeing Edridge once bat against a sort of charity match at Norwood and smashed the ball all over the field against these amateurs.

So it was, I remember that time very, very well. But, of course, it's distant memories now because we are talking nine on 50 years ago, I suppose. He was here a couple days ago, John, you know, I think on the first day he was here. So there goes. It's lovely an old sportsman catch-up, in fact. Have you ever met him or not? No, no. To be honest, I haven't met many cricklers at all.

I was lucky enough to make Alex an acquaintance. I knew Mick, of course, a little bit, because he was involved a lot in football. But apart from Mick Stewart and Alec, I can't really say. And Bob Willis, I've had some contact with, but otherwise I've not been lucky enough to meet many figures. In those days, of course, you could combine both sports, couldn't you? I mean, professionally, a colleague of mine, Chris Boulderson,

which, he's famed for scoring 100 one day at Fletcher at Chesterfield. I think it was, and nipped up to Doncaster and, played a league football match that day, which is sad it doesn't happen anymore. But your season's too long, Roy, is all trouble. Yeah, that's right. No, that's right. It is. But, I mean, cricket's changed a lot, isn't it?

It's changed not only in the formulas with the 2020s and the one-day cricket, but it's also changed now that the England players are fully professional. It's obviously impacted, I guess, on county cricket, which I must admit I don't follow to any great extent anymore, but I think it's made the test cricket and the one-day cricket much more. accessible if you like to a wide range of people so I would presume cricket people regard it as a step forward but I don't know no do you like 2020 have you've seen that the real quick shortened version form of the game but it's

quite lucky I think that cricket has these different types of game that it can play and then play to a high standard yeah I'd agree I think I can enjoy all the forms of the game I think the 2020 is obviously spectacular I think I probably would still prefer the the one day or even test cricket because I think, you know, the studying the techniques, I think the tactical side of test cricket is very, very interesting, just little things like now, you know, whether the South Africa is going to declare now, whether they're going to go for more.

Just hearing they have done, actually. Well, you've just, you've hit the nail, I'm just hearing my headphones that have declared on 637 for two. So it has happened, so England will be batting shortly, which actually will be a good thing, because it'll give you something to watch, aren't it? A bit of intensity. Yeah, I'm not sure.

Obviously, enjoy it as a failed bats, I prefer watching the batsman to the bowlers, but having said that, I don't envy the English batsman because having spent two days in the field in this, you know, quite strong heat today, it's going to be half of them. Your life's changed, doesn't it? I mean, my word, as soon as people knew that we're here, I mean, there's photographers everywhere, there's kids coming up. How are you finding all that? Do you enjoy it? Do you enjoy it? Do you enjoy it? Do you seem quite a kind of quiet sort of fellow to me? I don't know that quiet, really. I don't know how much I enjoy it either. I mean, I enjoy the job, and I certainly enjoy being. England national team manager, and I accept that a lot of things go with that, but I don't seek out the publicity or the TV cameras or the press cameras, but I realise that they're going to find me, so I'll have to learn to live with it. But in the past, I've always just tried to be as natural as possible,

and as a result, I'm sure I should get caught out on many occasions and a photograph doing something I perhaps shouldn't be doing, but that's the way like it. I'm sure you won't, Roy. Yeah, come on. Now, I mean, it's a funny job you've got, isn't it? Fantastic job, but here we are at cricket, watching the England cricket team, totally under control of Andy Flower and the board, and they're on central contract, and it's very much a country first and club second that we have in cricket.

Completely opposite to you. How is it frustrating for you, that aspect of it? Well, it hasn't been so far. I mean, I know it has been in the past when I've coached other national teams, and I do realise the club national team conflicts always going to exist, But it was no problem during the Euro. All the clubs were very, very cooperative. We had no problem at all with the players.

I think the national team football probably is still underestimated. The fact that, you know, 22 million people in England tuned in to see our game against Italy, it's really quite incredible. So I think any time when maybe it's suggested that national team football isn't as important to people as Champions League football, I think we should maybe look at the figures because certainly more people watched our game against Titty than watch the Champions League final. Yeah. I thought, little I know

about it, it seems that the public love England football and they want England to do well. It's more of a club issue, is it, with managers and players and so on there? And availability and so on. Is that more where the problem lies? Well, I think it's not a problem as such, but we can never get away from the fact that we

as a national team don't pay the players. You refer to cricket where the players are contracted and earn their living for playing for England. Our players, really, they play for England. They play for England. for the glory, for the honour of representing their country, but their money and their livelihood is provided by the club. So in a conflict situation,

it's obviously going to be very difficult for them because, you know, which master do you serve? You know, the master that you want to serve because you happen to be English and want to play for your country or the person who pays you your wage on which you live. Yes. So, I mean, I presumably you'll see the time coming where you,

I don't know, would there be a conflict where you live? a conflict where, I don't know, a club is reluctant for a player to play? How do you deal with that as an England coach? Well, that has happened many times in the past, and I've been in a party that when I was in Switzerland or with Finland. You know, you get those situations where clubs have got an important game coming up or much rather that their player stayed with them and prepared rather than risk injury playing for the national team.

But I think it's been much better in recent years now that FIFA have got these dates where league football is closed down for a period of 10 days. Little advantages or little changes are being made all the time which are suitable for the clubs, i.e. it used to be Saturday, Wednesday, so the players would only get back on a Thursday or Friday before the next Saturday game. Now the matches are playing Friday and Tuesday.

So you've got the national people are doing everything can if you like to facilitate the fact that the clubs don't suffer. for too much from loaning their players out. Yeah. And that's for the players. I mean, do you think that they value an England cap like the cricketers do as much? I mean, is it the same value in football now, or again, has that become a more of a club precedent? No, I think the players do value it. I've got to say, I certainly saw that with Switzerland and Finland, even with the UAE, if you like,

although that was a shorter experience. But my England experience is obviously relatively new, and I should be. careful not to, you know, make too many bold statements on the evidence of six matches, but certainly if the Euros were ready to go by and the players we took to the Euros, their commitment to the team, to what we tried to do, to playing for England was first class. You know, I've certainly got no reason whatsoever to doubt that people still want to play for me. Yeah, and the pressure, Roy, sitting on the touchline, I mean, helpless and million, 23 people, million watching. I was in the pub, and there's so many experts in there.

I mean, honestly, they should be all coach of England. They all know what they're doing, shouting and yelling at the telly. How do you put up with all that? And you're the bloke who's got the neck on the line, really. That's the beauty of football, isn't it? You know, everyone's played a bit of football. Everyone's got an opinion. Cricket, to some extent, but maybe to a slightly lesser extent.

So you learn to live with that. And I think it's important for the country that this interest, this enthusiasm, this desire for football still exists. and it's given me a very good life and I enjoy it and I accept the responsibility that goes with it but obviously as a coach

you are limited as to what you can do you've got your preparation time and that's really our jobs we are prepared us we are orchestra leaders and you know when the when the band strikes up

it's up to the musicians to play really yeah Olympics are they forward to that you're going to go along and see a bit of that yes absolutely certainly the football I'm going to be very much you know interested in that

Be part of that at all? No, not really. I mean, Stuart has, you know, got total autonomy there. I mean, he's been kind enough to share some of his thoughts with me, but basically it's his team and everything there is, you know, what he wants to do and the team is his team. What I'm interested in, of course, is several of the players that he's selected, our players who might very well be interesting for me

in the first national team as well. And if I can get to any of the other Olympic events, I'd be delighted. I was lucky enough to meet Lord Car. and he did say that if I wanted to go to an event, he'd try and help me, so... Well, you're going to the top man there, Roy. I hope he's listening to this interview because I'm probably going to be too shy to contact him directly and ask him, but it would be nice to go, yeah. It's 100 metre final or something like that, that'll do you, will it?

Oh, I'd sell for much less than that. But it's funny because the football event, again, people say, oh, it's Great Britain, it's a kind of a strange sort of mish-mash of things. I mean, it'll clearly be taken very seriously by those involved, though. Yeah, absolutely. I think it's going to be a very good event and England's groups are very interesting one. We're Senegal, the UAE and Uruguay. There's some very strong teams, Brazil, Argentina, Spain. I think it's going to be a very, very good competition because now it's open to the top professional.

It's very different to the old days when, you know, basically the football in the Olympics was totally different to professional football. That's not the case anymore. Yeah. Was there room for sentiment with David Beckham? I don't know. In this sort of put-together team, an amalgamated team, would that have been a nice thing to have done? I say, is sentiment not really in it? Well, I've not been involved in that at all.

As I say, that was Stuart, I think, was given the autonomy to select the team and the players he wanted, and his decision was that David wouldn't be part of it. And I certainly don't want to be involved in any comments. No. With regard to that, it wouldn't be appropriate. And, you know, basically, I'm sure it's been... I've been away during that time, in actual fact,

but I'm pretty sure the decision not to select it. has been debated pretty thoroughly during that time, but I've not really been a part of it. Fair enough. I want to hear a Roy Hodgson team talk because here we are, Roy, we're up against it. It's back to the walls. It's not even a penalty shootout. What are you going to say to those two bats

when in there who are going to go out here and face possibly the fastest bowling attack in the world? All these people, country depending upon them. What are you going to say, Roy? Well, they know those things. I mean, basically speaking, it would be wrong to talk about that because, you know, that's a given. You know, if you're Andrew Strauss or as to cook, you know pretty well what's required of you.

I think the most important thing would be to show them you've got every confidence in them to impress upon them that, you know, they do need to get us off to a good start and that they need to, you know, bring everything that they've got to the table. But in these situations, I think there's only one thing to do. You've got to stay in the game. I mean, you know, you're down, but you're never out. You know, it's important just to stay in the game. Even if we were to lose an early wicket, there's such a strong batting line-up.

People have just got to keep believing, they've got to stay in it. Because who knows, you know, we could be looking in a perilous position at the end of the day. And then tomorrow, two players will get together and put on a fantastic partnership like we've seen the South Africans do now on three occasions, firstly. Firstly, with Smith and Amler, and now with Amler and Calais. Yeah. It's a lot of talking involved, isn't there, actually? I mean and do you treat individuals very differently? I mean the makeup of a team is just so many different people, isn't it? Different types of people, different characters.

Oh, it will be completely foolish to think that you can give one team talk, which is going to embrace everybody and get through to everyone in the same way. I think the discussions you have with individuals, the talks have with individuals, which really just back up the type of work you do in your training. And, of course, I'll be very interesting to meet with Andy Flower. I hope that's going to come off. I think it's planned. I believe it's planned that Stuart Lancastery and I shall meet and discuss. One of the things that will interest me, of course, is how they use their training time, what they do in the training sessions, and how they, you know, use that time, if you like, in preparation

and how they supplemented, if you like, by speaking individually to the players and trying to, you know, find out as much about them, or trying to find out what little words of advice that they could maybe sometimes give there that would hit home. Fascistic. He's a very calm, very collected, very little calculating man, Antiflower,

and a very fine player, of course. He played at the top level. You've ever found any issues with that, with you? You weren't at the very top of the game. Have you ever found any players certainly around saying, what do you know about it?

You haven't been out there and done it sort of thing. Is that ever an issue? No, I've been lucky. I can't say that. It's happened to me too often. It could do, of course, but it can also. If you've been a great player, the players might still be prepared to turn around and say,

what do you know about it, despite the fact that you've got lots of caps to your name. But I think when you start off and you're younger, it's more of a concern. But, you know, obviously players want players around them and coaches to coach them. You know, they're not that interested that the coach happens to have been a much better player than maybe they were or are, and the players around them are. They want their coach to be a good coach. players around. There'd be good players. Wonderful memories of that summer.

Hodgson went on to manage England up until 2016 before moving back to club management with Crystal Palace. Look out for plenty more from the Test Match Special Archive. There's so much already there and still to come. Just head to BBC Sounds. Classic View from the Boundary on BBC Sounds. Alan Shear and Ian Wright are in my kitchen.

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