Test Match Special - #40from40: Len Goodman

Episode Date: September 3, 2020

Former Strictly Come Dancing judge Len Goodman joins Aggers during the 2013 Ashes Test at Lord's and talks about an exciting cricketing past.

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Today we're here from a man who's had the questionable fortune of having to watch a number of the Test Match Special team on the dance floor. Mark Rambrakash, Michael Vaughn, Phil Tuffnell, they've all had a go on Strictly Come Dancing. it has to be said with mixed success. For the first 14 series of the programme, Len Goodman was one of the judges running the rule over Tufters Tango, Ramps's Rumba and Michael's Mambo.

And during the Ashes test at Lords in 2013, Len popped up to the commentary box and began by discussing his famous catchphrase. Seven! As I walked in here, somebody came up to me and said, how many wickets England's still got me main in? And I had to, Seven! It's great how these things stick, though, isn't it?

Well, I never thought a catchphrase, a nunboat. Well, it was, and there was no sort of, I wasn't sort of trying to work the oracle as far as the catch rate. It's the way of saying it. It was one of those nights when the first couple came out, and I said, seven, and then the next one going, oh, seven, and then I got a bit fed up with it, I'll seven. It made Bruno laugh, so after that.

Yeah, yeah. He's sitting beside you. See, Michael has come in, just in case you're going to be rude to him. Now, let me tell you this, Michael Vaughn, okay, he lacked a little bit in his Latin American dancing. I think he would honestly agree with me. However, as a ballroom dancer, tall, slim, elegant, wide elbows, gorgeous posture and lovely movement. And what he lacked in certain areas, he made up for in others. Look else's coming.

Tough as is he? Now we've got the opposite. There we are. Toughers. Hey? What did you make it? What, the bionic bum? Tiggle the trout.

Look at it, Tiggle the trout. Oh, he did a salsa. We did the strictly tour after the main show during the January, they go on tour. And the pair of them were on the tour. Right. Vaughley and Tuffers. Well, Tuffers did a salsa that got more and more bizarre as it went on. On his bottom, it was like he was chewing a toffee.

It was all scridgy and squirty. Then he did this move where he was alluring his partner with his fingers. And I called it Tiddling the Trout because it was a most bizarre performance. He was a bit of a shimmyer, I remember. Oh, yes, he could shake it and bake it. Yes. What's nice is you all clearly get on very well. I mean, we'll come on to dancing in a minute probably.

But, you know, I'd love me to see those two again. I was very fond of you, Len. I don't know. I'll tell you, because we had Michael and Tuffers both on the tour, on the Strictly Tour. And it was so much fun, honestly. But the bizarre thing is they do the same two dances night after night. And weekends, they do the same dance twice on a Saturday, twice on a Sunday. So they get really, really good.

Yes. Apart from Tuffers and his south. But that just got more and more bizarre. You know, what he lacked in dancing skills, he made up for, honestly, in entertainment. And I know that by the end of the run that we did, I was giving Tuffers a 10. You got a 10 from Lend? Did he? Yeah.

Mike got a 10 from Lenn. Did he? Oh, I couldn't help yourself. But the thing was, I was so fed up with the whole tour. I gave everyone a 10. But they deserved it. Both of them. And you must have.

quite a lot of respect for these fellows, admiration actually for coming on and doing it. Sometimes I may be a little bit on the critical side, but quite often that's not because I want to be critical, it's because the show is live. And the only way that, if they're running a bit over, the only way they can make it up is really through the judges because the dances, the dance and so on.

So they'll come just between dances and say to us, we're running two minutes over, you've got to be really short. So whereas I prefer to do like a little bit of positive if I'm going to do a negative, so I might say, you know, you've got lovely posture and your hold was good, unfortunately. You thought, you know, and I thought I'll do a positive and a bit. Sometimes you can't do that because I say you've got five seconds, so you have to just pick on one thing. Exactly.

But overall, I try to tend to be more positive than negative. And the reason, I've got so much admiration for all of those celebrities. You know, to go on a boring dancing thing live in front of millions of, people and one one go you know it's not it's not as though it's pre-recorded and you go well i'll muck that up a bit can i have another shot and you have no other chance you have no chance it's in there and you do it and i don't know i don't know why they do it i don't know what you know why you'd put yourself through it you know it's a bit like me having to go out there and face those fast bowlers i could not do it no unless i wore a full suit of armor no no i'm not

worrying about a few bits of padding here and there. I would have to have a shield and a full set of I couldn't run obviously. That's why I started playing a bit of, well I played as a kid at school and then after that I was working in a firm and they had a bit of a cricket team

and if they couldn't find someone they'd oh good would have turned up for us and so I did and I used to go in and play a bit for them just really to make up the numbers but I stopped when we played some team from two I think, or somewhere like that. And there I go.

You know, they said, well, you can go in number eight then. And in I went, and then I've got this man coming at me. I've got a glove on that all it had was like rubber spikes. Oh, they were the ones, aren't they? Yeah. A little green rubber spikes. Green rubber spike. One glove, one pad, right, nothing else.

I stuck a toilet roll down me underpants to give myself a bit of protection in the nuptials. And then I've got this man running at me, and throwing a ball as hard as he could, and all I've got is a bloody little bit of wood. I thought, no, life. I've got to preserve my life here. How did you get on?

Listen, my proudest moment in cricket was, just after I left school, they didn't know I was no good at cricket, but anyway, I went in, opening bat, and I carried my bat. Good Lord. Nine runs. You're joking. I got nine.

Nine not out? Nine not out, and I was the first run in. Yeah. I was all out. I was mostly ducking and diving and, you know... I was just prodding it out and... Yeah, I've got nine. It must be a brilliant nine.

Listen, I wish somehow there'd been a recording of it because it would go down in the annals of history as one of the finest innings ever seen in this country. What happened to the others? They just got blown away. Well, they got blown away here and there. But I got nine and they never got me out. But when I was a school boy, we used to play,

and I only went to a secondary modern school, You know, nothing special. And the team that was our nemesis, Chisellers and Sid Cuck Grammar School for boys. I still remember. They had a boy called Grover, who was a man amongst kids, really. He was about 14, but he looked 20.

He was twice as big as anyone else, and a good-looking boy could play football. He was a natural. Yes. and he was the one that always used to carry his back you know you could never get him out he bowled brilliantly well so and we'd never beaten chisler's and sick cup grammar school

so my mate dickie dawson was bowling and I was somewhere sort of midwicked somewhere second ball first ball he whacked it for four as he would second ball he hid it as hard as he could at my face I stuck my hand up and I caught it out

Big Grover gone I turned to my mate Dickie and all I did was lifted my fist you know and he went that was it you know that was as far as it went and he went

not loud just like that just enough next day in the sem we beat them we beat Chisler's and Sidcup first time in years never beaten them We're in assembly. We've done the Lord's Prayer, and I always used to sit next to,

and stand next to Dickie Dawson, mainly because he could pass wind at will, and he always let one go during the Lord's Prayer. Give us this day our daily bread, and then he'd let... That's quite a using, I suppose. He was talented, because he could, not only that, he could curly whistle. I can't, curly whistle, he could yodel, he was a good drawer, he was a real hero of mine as a kid. Anyway, the headmaster called us up.

He said, Goodman and Dawson, come up onto the podium or whatever. We thought, here we go. Yeah, six of the best. No, we would know. This was over the cricket. Oh, I see. I thought we're going to get congratulated for getting Grover out. He said this.

He said, the sportsmaster has told me about your disgusting behaviour at yesterday's cricket match, where you turn to one another in glee to congratulate each other on getting some young chap out you would take no further part in the cricket for this season no you dropped we were dropped pair of us and we did virtually nothing compared with what they do now you know and nothing to do the Lord's Prayer or anything

no no I could understand it if you got old Dickie Dawson but no so anyway that was my earliest memory of playing in cricket but my My dad used to take me off, isn't it? It was harsh, you know. Last time I came, no, not the last time I came to Norse. A few years ago I came. And I came, I've got my mate here with me, Mike.

And we came with a dear old friend, Les Bailey. And we're sitting. And Les Bailey, unfortunately, passed away now, much older than us, said, I'm the only person in this ground that has done something that no one else has done. He said, I've been in the law. long room, naked. And we asked him, well, it was just before the war. Oh, I think I know what you're going to say here. Medicals. He used to do the medicals. They did. He took, he took his medical there. And he said, I was totally naked. Going through

the long room? Going through the long room, he said. I think tough as may have done it. Well, tougher as, possibly not where he's supposed to do it. But it's a bit of badge of honour. Things like that, I think, are wonderful. Yeah. Your next challenge is just a sitting next to you then no sitting down oh what do you reckon you could do with that no no listen this is Henry Blufeldon Henry you know I've pride myself and being quite a good dance teacher actually but miracles are out of my scope I saw you I tell you where I saw you I saw you at Dartford at the orchard doing your one-man chit-chat and it was very very interesting

And just to cheer you up, as I left, I bought a bottle of wine that was on sale. The blowers... Oh. Yeah. You're looking very well, too. Yeah, you survived. No, I survived it, yeah. I could just see Henry in those shoes shimmying around doing something.

What could do with it? Nothing at all? Well, no, no, I think he could move a bit, couldn't he? No, listen, the thing is, anyone can dance. I was going to ask you, then. I don't think we can. No, look, it's a bit like everyone can sit. You know, now some people have got to...

No, everyone can sing. Can make a noise? Exactly. If you can walk forwards backwards and sideways, you can dance. Now, if you've got a bit of talent, you can dance better than others, but you can actually shuffle yourself around the floor. And so it is. And when you, even, you know, Anne Whittaker and John Sargent and Russell Grant,

these people that have been on Strictly come dancing, they can all dance to a degree. Why are we self-conscious? I'm terribly self-conscious about that. No, I think that's a natural thing to be, isn't it? Self-conscious? I'm self-conscious. You know, I saw a chap walking through, who must have come here, you know, even on the tube or that.

Some people have got front. And this guy here had the blazer, your egg and bacon blazer, the tie, the hat. You need front. You've got to have. Yeah, to carry that off. you to walk, you know, get on the train in, blimming, wherever, chatum, and come up and get on...

You know, I... That, you know, that sort of front I haven't got. But, you know, if you said to me, Len, I want you to sing, oh, what a beautiful morning, now I've got a terrible voice. You know, I do it, because... We recognise it, I suppose. Well, you sort of recognise it, but people are saying,

well, he ain't got much of a voice, and that's the end of it. You know, and it's not a big deal, and I think it's a bit the same with dancing. Well, a tall piece. You see, Glenn McGraw were sitting here, moment ago, and he's had both the same. He's taller than I am even.

I'm six foot four. He's about six, I should think, six probably. And that's a bit of a problem for us, all of them. You feel that you can stand out. Well, not only do you stand it. You've got a lot of body to sort of control, if you like. Shorter people, they can sort of move a little bit better, and you don't notice. You're rigging.

It's like tough as though, you know. Well, tough. For a moment, though, you just, for a moment, though. Yeah, I'll give it a little bit of shimmy there. Yeah. No, I think that tall people do have more of a challenge. It was like poor one Michael Vaughn doing the jive. Yeah.

It was ugly. South Berk Street. Yeah, it still haunts me, really. And I lay in bed some... Sometimes I lay in bed, you know, and bizarre thoughts come into your head, and sometimes it's Michael Vaughn. And I think of that jive...

You should have moved on. I think of the jive, and I think, no, thank you. I don't know. Well, no, it... Were you quite harsh at the time? Well, I... Honest. Sort of... I wasn't as harsh as Bruno and Craig and that, you know.

I like it if I go last, because I basically do the opposite to what they do. If they're horrible, I think of something nice. And if they're nice, I try and slip in something that I don't like. But, no, I wasn't nasty, nasty, but I was a little bit nasty. You know, the thing is in Frank, probably. See, what's wonderful for me on Strictly Cumb dancing is that there's Craig, who is a nasty piece of work.

Yes. So I don't have to be nasty, really, because he's nasty enough for all of us. In America, when I do the old dancing with the stars, Bruno's on it, who's always lovely goody-goody-goody, because he loves all the celebrities, and you've got the lady from the Hawaiian lady who's American, and she loves everyone. So someone has to give the panel a bit of balance,

so I become the nasty-ish one. So I'm more critical and harsh on American television than I am on the British. Do you feel a bit guilty about that or not? Well, no, because it's a balance, you know, and the thing is, it's only, the bottom line is, okay, it is a dancing competition, and when you get down to the real nitty-gritty,

you want the best one to win, all I do. But the process of going through it is a television show as well, and you want a bit of entertainment and so on, and a bit of boo-in, and this and that. What is bizarre in America? They do not understand cricket. Oh. Really?

You introduced it to the show? No, no, I've played a lot of golf when I'm out there, because in the springtime, it's wonderful, because I stay out there for 11 weeks, and I only work Monday and Tuesday. So Wednesday through Sunday, I have the time off, so I play goal. Well, the handicap must be dropping like a stone. No, listen, the older you get, the better you used to be.

Honestly, and that's almost in everything, but especially for me in golf. No, I used to be quite good, but what I was going to say is I tried to explain cricket to the Americans. So I start with the process, you know, we started at 11 o'clock and one team come out and they're bowling, blah, blah, blah. Two hours later then they have lunch and they sort of with me up until this point and then I say I have about 40 minutes three quarters of an hour Then back out they come and the same process goes along What gets them is when I say this and then around four we stopped for tea You stop for a cup of tea? They can't get it. They can't get it and they think it's a sissy game Right? No, but then I

Because baseball, I say, why do they have that huge glove? And then I show them, I go on the old laptop, greatest catches ever, and you get Collingwood and this and that. I say, this ball is harder than a baseball. And no silly, big girly gloves. I said, baseball, don't talk to me about sissies. Well, well done you for flying the flag. It's true.

And when I show them that thing on the old laptop of the catches, and you see what they do with bare hands, I say, why do they, perhaps you know, why do they have that quite big glove? Because it hurts, I suppose, isn't they right? They're big cissy boys? Absolutely, no, I'm with it. You show them Michael Holding to Brian Close in 1976 at Old Trafford. Do you remember that? Poor old boy was absolutely beaten up.

You show them that next time. Google that. It's all on there, all on YouTube. You show them that. It's a fascinating background, yours. I mean, my word, I was reading one or two articles and divvies and so on that you gave. Do you sort of pinch yourself in a way, sometimes I think, how has this happened? How has this turned out like this?

I am, and sincerely, I thought this all my life. I'm the most lucky person. It's all a bit of luck, everything in life, really, you know. You know, you turn left and you get run over, you turn right, and you bump into your future wife. You know, it's just a bit of luck. And so it's been with me all my life, you know. Oh, there I am. I'm 19 or 20. Like most boys of 19 or 20, you know, you go out trying to find girlfriends and things.

And one of my mates said, I go up a dance school in here with them. I said, dance school. What sort of dance? He said, ballroom dance. I said, shut up. I said, ballroom, blimming dancing. You're having a laugh. You've done nothing of that before. No. No. Anyway, I used to play a lot of soccer, and I hurt my foot. So there I am, it's February, and I've got hobbling about. He said, come up this dance school, he said, exercise your foot a bit.

I said, I couldn't go. He said, Len, there's four boys and 30 girls. I said, I'm coming. So up up, I had a winkle picker on my left foot, and my dad's carpet slipper on me right foot, and I hobbled up there. And I liked it, you know. I would have never, ever, ever gone ballroom dancing.

it not been for that one incident. And I enjoyed it, and I liked it. And I found I had a bit of a sort of a talent for it. And I fancied the girl who served the team. Right. Whose dad owned a dance school. So I used to try and get her to come out and have a dance with me. She'd done since she was a little kid.

So eventually she used to come out and have a little dance with me. And her father said, I think you two look really good together as a couple. I'd be more than interested in giving you some private tuition. He said, there'd be no child because it's with my daughter and see how you get on. And so it was, and so it started, and that's how it all. So I did that, and then gradually became a professional, and then the dance school that they had was pulled down, and I opened my own dance school, and did that.

And I just taught people to dance. social dancing and a bit of this and that for 40 odd years. And I was 60 years old and I was gradually easing my way out of the dance school because I'd lost patience, you see. Whereas I used to just be so patient with people. No, no, no, no, no, your left foot. Go back on your left. Eventually, you know, 40 years later, I'm going, yes, I'm a lap, and I was screaming. I thought, I've got to get out of this.

I'm going to lose all my customers if I'm on the kettle. So my wife and my son took over, and I was gradually easing my way out. Then, one of my mates in the dance business said, have you been at an interview for this new dance show? I said, no, what dance show? He said, this new, they're going to do a ballroom dance show with professionals and celebrities. I said, no, I haven't.

And no one's asked me. And then another mate would phone up and ask me, so I got so fed up, I lied. I said, oh, yeah, I've been for an interview, but I don't want to do that, one, catch on. So, anyway, about a month before the actual show started, I got the call. Right.

Up I went and I had a chit-chat with this producer woman and was in a little room and she had a television and videos and she said, just critique this chach-cha-cha that you want I said this and the other have a look at this waltz what you think and I chit-chated about that blow me tight two days later they said we want you to do it and I was and the shirt that we did a pilot the week before just had run through with Bruce and everyone

and that was my 60th birthday basic isn't it? So that was the only reason I know it started in 2004, because I know I was born in 44, and it was 60 years old. So I was 60 years old, and that showed up. And then they decided to do it in America, and a year later, the American phoned me up. We would like you, I do it in American accent. Lange, we really like you over here.

We'd like you to join the judging panel over in Los Angeles. So over I went. And I was convinced when it started that it would, didn't work. I thought, what, this can't work? I thought, we've got ballroom dancing, which no one's interested in. Such a simple concept, though, isn't it? Stripping a celebrity down to bear. And that, I think, is one of the, I think one of the charms about the show, and one of the things people appreciate is that these celebrities, and most of them, have got no dancing ability, really, or very little, and how good they become,

through absolute hard work, you know, hours and hours. And the mystery, is why is it that we've had, I think we've had 10 series of Strictly come dancing. Two of the winners were cricketers. Why should that be, balance, poise? Well, now, you know, I think that a little bit. You know, I think, well, what do you've got to have to be a good ballroom dancer? And Latin dance, you've got to have rhythm, you've got to have timing, you've got to have good posture, you've got to have great technique.

You know, all those things makes you think, well, cricketers have been no good. But also, that's been kind. I mean, Darren Goff doesn't strike you when you seem as being someone who. light on his feet? Goffey shouldn't have won it. Colin Jackson should have won it that year, but he did a bizarre final dance, but Goffey was good. Yes. Lovely, boring. You know, he's boring. Confluent again. Yeah, lovely. But the one really was good was Ramprakash. He was terrific. Two of my best dancers I ever saw was Ramprakash doing a salsa and doing an Argentine tango. He was the real deal, as far as I'm concerned. But why is it? They've had lots of boxes on.

in even in Britain or in America, hopeless. Tennis players, they've had three or four, hopeless. Cricketers, by and large, yeah, well, all of them, at least competent, if not brilliant, you know. That is really odd, isn't it? It's just, I don't know why it should be and why, you know, one, you know, I don't know. And the same in America, they've had three American footballers, really. Three. Great, big, beefy linebackers or whatever they're.

You know, three have won it. You know, why? Rugby players were great. Austin Healy was good. Matt Dawson. Yeah, you know. So they've produced good dancing. It's just funny how some sports transfer onto the dance floor well and some don't.

How much of the accent and so the East End part of it is all part of the deal as well? I mean, you know. Let me tell you that something and I think this is a terrific, when I, when I, I first got asked to do Strictly Come Dancing, I was like you would be. I'd never done any television or anything. I was a bit nervous, and I was frightened I'd come over wooden and, you know, and I said to the producer, a lovely lady, Izzy Pick, and I said, and this is the night of the show, you know what I mean?

I said, I'm really nervous, Izzy. I said, I just don't want to come over wooden or, you know. She said, Len, there's only two things. be yourself and be honest and I think that's true for most of us in most things that we ever do and that's what I've always tried to do

be myself and be honest and if you do that I don't think you can go wrong really and the sort of childhood that you had I mean this was sort of baraboy business I know it's a kind of cliched but I mean to start life like that

my mum well my granddad had a fruit and veg stall in Bethanyl Green and then when I was about five I suppose he got a shop so you know gone into in Beffanel Green Mode

little shop so lovely but he kept the stall so he had the stall outside which sold salad and inside you've got your cabbages and brussels and stuff and when I was 11 all through my summer holidays or weekends

that was my job I was the boy on the salad stall yeah and I think that helped me Where did it all come from? Because in those days you had to go and go Barry in it isn't? Well we just up the road from Spittlefield's market, so, which was about...

So, my granddad would, originally, when he was, when he first started, Monday mornings, he'd pawn his overcoat or his watch or something, get five, ten bob, and he'd take his ten bob and go down to Spittlefields and buy what he could buy, and back he'd come, and he'd sell that, and he'd go on until Saturday night, then he'd go into the pawnbrokers,

get his watch back, and then, uh, yeah, drink, drink, or give his, give my nan a bit of money, and then, uh, Monday morning to start all that again, and that's how it was. Gradually they got another shot, they had three shops in the end. It was in the time before supermarkets, so nowadays everyone gets their stuff in. Hello, what's happening?

You all right? The band's going off. They play nice, didn't they? Didn't they play well? But does that make you appreciate life even more when you just think you said that. I think so. You know, I think doing that helped me to become who I, what you do as a kid and growing up makes you, who was it who said to give me the kid till they're seven and.

and I'll give you the adult. And I think that's true. You know, and I think the way I've brought up as a kid has helped me to become who I've become. And watching cricket, was that involved with that? Always. Yeah, always. We used to always go.

My dad came from Walthamstow, so he was an Essex supporter. And because we lived in Kent, I always, as much as I followed me, dad, I also had a, and they used to play, Kent and Essex used to play in Dartford, Heskiff Park. Cool, I've played there a few times. Have you? Yeah, it's got a slight different name to us who played on it, but I will stick with Hesketh. Yeah.

Yeah, it was only a small sort of community. Yeah. But we always used to go there, and then if I was lucky, my dad would take me off to the Oval because that wasn't too far to go to. And, you know, I used to sit there and watch all my heroes. My dad loved, he was an Arsenal supporter,

and he loved, there was a good football, the centre of Leslie Compton. Oh, yes, of course, brother of. Dennis, yes. And, of course, I loved Dennis Compton. I couldn't wait to get my hands on a job. I have a brill cream and stick him, it slicked my hair back. Yeah, so, you know, we used to go and watch Compton and May.

Was Compton a real, he was that real sort of strong image as a kid then, was he? I mean, he really was this, brook cream man. See, and this is a sadness. He was like David Beckham or something. Yeah, well, you say Beckham, I think he is now, and this is what I find sad about now. The trouble is, once you get to a certain note, when you get him pushing onto 70, everything was better before, and nothing much is any good now and the future you can't even think about.

And when I was a kid, there were so many people that you looked up to proper, proper role models. You know, May and Compton. I remember with my dad watching Trevor Bailey and he was, you know, he was trying to, England were in a bit of trouble and he was trying to keep his wicket as long as could. And he was out of his depth really and he was just letting the ball bash him, really, you know, and never rubbing it. I mean, bulldog, British spirit. And yet what's odd about that thing, about the fact that, you know, you talk about those role models, you had such little access to them, though.

I mean, apart from a newspaper, how else would you have known about these people? Well, probably, that's probably, you sort of shattered my illusion now. It's probably the fact that you do. They were just up there. Yeah, they were just. People talked about them, referentially. Yeah. Now, of course, any little thing that any of them do, you know, staggering out of a club or something, it's all in the papers.

In those days, you just. You just admire them and for the sporting people that they work. Yeah, you know. Now, well, yeah. I feel sad, really, because I feel sad for the youth, because I don't know who they look up to now. There's not many people that you can. Beckham is a good example, though.

Yes, he is. And some of the... He should dance, you know, shouldn't he? He'd be good, wouldn't he? Well, you know, why would he? You know, I don't know. He wouldn't want the money for a start, wouldn't he? He doesn't want the publicity.

But I'd have thought that program would be more about that. I thought money, that the programme really is about proving to yourself that you can do it. It's a challenge, isn't it? Well, it would be if I, yeah, I think that's the right attitude to have. But I think some of them go on it as like a sort of a celebrity job centre. Right, a revive a flagging career. Yeah, no, you've not, you're not seen them for a long while. And then suddenly, oh, blammy, I haven't seen him for years.

And the next thing, you know, they're hosting the lottery. Has anyone had a complete nightmare on it? Oh, yeah. Has there been a complete... Yeah, there was a boy on it called Matt DiAngelo, who was from EastEnders or something like... I forgot the whole routine. Did about four bars.

And he just felt it, just... And he forgot it. Oh, how horrible. And she tried to shove him along, and then he forgot the next bit. And then ten bars before the end, he just walked and sat on the stairs. Oh, no.

Yeah. And we... Well, nothing, but... And we all had to say the truth, you know. terrible marks. But, of course, the viewers felt so sorry for him. You know, poor little devil. My mum told me off when I got back,

because fancy being so nasty that poor little boy. You made me I had to vote seven times for him. So, yeah. So, you know, and that's the charm of the show, I think. Wasn't that great fun, really? One of my favourites. Well, Len hung up his bow tie and left strictly in 2016, but still a regular on our screens.

and radios. Don't forget to look back through the rest of the view from the Boundary Archive on BBC Sounds, where you'll find a wealth of fascinating guests, such as the comedy great John Cleese from 1987. Watching yourself on video for the first time is absolutely horrified, and I couldn't believe

this creature that was using my name, because first of all, he ran around, like a I always described it as being like a giraffe on a hovercraft, because the top half kind of waves in the wind in all directions, but rather slowly and languidly. And the bottom half doesn't have any upward or downward movement, seems to be capering around on a cushion of air.

And then the extraordinary thing was that I made tiny little gestures. Instead of making reasonably nice, expansive gestures, I made terrible, horrid, nervous, tight gestures. And also, which was very strange, I realized that I hardly moved my lips at all when I was speaking. I had a stiff upper and lower lip. I looked like a bad ventriloquish. And I had to go to lie down for about two days, because when you have damage, what do you have damage like that to your picture of yourself? You know, it's really quite painful. So I worked on the gestures after. Are you being asked about Faulted Towers?

I mean, I do mind people thinking of it as Faulted or Basel Fawcett? Well, I think that there's always a bit of you that would rather that the audience thought that the writing and acting was an exercise of craft of some kind. But it is a funny thing, because John Howard Davis, who has produced the first 740 times, he warned me in advance, he said, when he realized that the show was going to be a success, he said, you realize that now everybody will think that you are like Mazel. And I said, will they really? And he said, yes, it is always the case that straight actors are recognized as acting. Nobody thinks that Lawrence Olivier is going to be terribly jealous because he played Othello. You know, people are able to say, yes, that was a performance. But he said if you do a successful character,

if you do Alf Garnett or one of the Richard Breyer's characters, one of the Leonard Ross characters, they always think that that's who you are. And it is, I have noticed it's true, that somehow, but it's only with comedy. They don't have any problems seeing that the straight actors. And to make sure you miss nothing for Test Match Special, just hit the subscribe button on BBC Sounds. Hello, it's me Greg Jenner, the bloke from the funny history podcast, You're Dead to Me.

And big news, we are back, once again combining the talents of top comedians and expert historians as we explore fascinating history, such as ancient Egyptian pyramids, Genghis Khan, and 19th century vampire literature. Find us on the BBC Sounds app, and you'll be able to hear our upcoming episode about the 18th century criminal, Jack Shepard, and also to hear why our comedian Stuart Goldsmith doesn't think that he's really suited to a life of crime. I am mortally afraid of not only prison, but generally being told off. Search for your dead to me on the BBC Sounds app.