Test Match Special - #40from40: Nicholas Parsons CBE

Episode Date: May 20, 2020

Nicholas Parsons - actor, comedian and long-time host of Radio 4's 'Just a Minute' - joins Jonathan Agnew for a View from the Boundary in 2007.

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. Bring more gear, carry more passengers, face greater challenges. Welcome to the world of Defender, with seating up to eight, ample cargo space and legendary off-road capability. It's built to make the most of every adventure. Learn more at landrover.ca. BBC Sounds, music, radio, podcasts. AMS podcast. Classic View from the Boundary. Hello, welcome to another classic view from the boundary. I'm Jonathan Agnew, and I've been fortunate enough

through the BBC's cricket correspondent for nearly 30 years, which is quite a good stint you'd have thought. But my tenure pales into insignificance when compared to the longevity of a guest we were joined by in 2007. Nicholas Parsons was an actor, presenter and comic, but it's perhaps best known as host of Radio 4 Quizmaster just a minute, a position he held for over half a century from 1967 until 2019.

And during his career, Parsons was a regular on-screen and on radio, becoming one of the most popular characters in British entertainment. He was also a cricket fanatic. In 2007, India was a tourists and visiting lords in the first test of a three-match series. The rain-infected game ended in a close draw, and during a showery hour or so on a Saturday, Nicholas Parsons popped into Sears and take a view for it. in the boundary.

I've got to say right away, sitting up here in this media centre, I didn't realise how lucky you all are. It is the most fabulous position to see cricket. And in the setting here, the home of cricket here at Lords, that wonderful pavilion is a backdrop over there, and the game going on. I've been in seventh heaven for the last hour and a half just watching it all. And, of course, there's been great cricket to watch as well.

Oh, I'm so thrilled and so privileged, and I'm so grateful. But it's good to be reminded, because it is like going to work sometimes for us. So to see your face light up when you walked in here, it's a good reminder, actually, of just how lucky we all are. Were you following it closer to you in the ashes as well? I mean, not the last one. We're forgetting that one, we're sort of airbrushing that out of history. But the one here two summers ago, did you caught up in the...

Oh, yes, I mean, the atmosphere there was... I think it went to everybody's head. I mean, they just got carried away. But what a wonderful thing. Again, this is the one thing about this game, and I do believe in All-Sport. It is possible to get fired up, and that sort of adrenaline, which I know as a performer on the stage, once the adrenaline is pumping and everything's going your way, it can work wonders. I mean, the thing is that adrenaline is a strange thing.

It's when you're performing, I mean, I've just come off this cruise ship where I've been entertaining, and I did two shows because I was only a brief visit on one night. The first audience was a bit sticky, and just trying to get them going. It went very well when they were laughing. Actually, the cruise directors, Mark was priceless. He said, oh, it's very good. And he said, well, they're a bit sticky. He said, yes, but nobody left.

That's a good sign of it. But actually, you see, in cruise ships, they have a different attitude with the audience there. You know, you're just part of the attraction they paid for. Not like in the theatre. He wouldn't expect in the middle of a show in the theatre, get up, now, I can, Paul, but this will go home. But they do.

They'll just get up any time and disappear. Anyway, the second show, the audience were fantastic. and the adrenaline pumps, and then you are better than yourself. And that's what it's all about. And it's the same in sport. And to think that in a game that lasts for sometimes up to five days, you can get that adrenaline going, and they can be on a roll, and so everybody's just a little bit sharper, and it works.

But look at you. I was going to bring us up later, but you're full of it yourself now. You said I mustn't mention your age, and I won't. Well, you mentioned my age, I'm over 80, yes. You said I could mention that you're an oxygenarian. This energy and enthusiasm that you have, it's fantastic, isn't it? Where do you summon that from? I don't know.

It's natural. It's part of me, isn't it? I mean, I love my work. I love my profession. I struggled very hard to get into the profession because my parents were at the time you didn't do what you wanted. You did, as you were told. And I come from a professional family, and my mother was particularly horrified.

The idea, I'm going to be an actor. Everybody in their profession was debased and degraded and debauched. Someone is young and ineffectual of you. You've got a stutter. You're a bit dyslexic. And no, no. And so they stopped me. I became an engineer. I did five years on Clyde Mackle. What did five years? Warned up there with all the fellows that told of that. I was no one back. You come here. We'll teach you to get your effing horn instead.

That's a life. They're loving. You know, I survived. I mean, I survived with humor because I was able to do impersonations and mimic. And I endeared myself to my workmates by doing that. It was tough. It was uncompromising. But I was getting away doing bits and pieces in the evening and finding out that I had the talent. But when the war was over, and I was discharged on anything, I just said, this is it, I'm going for it, even though I was a qualified engineer. And I think the fact that I got into it late, and I had to work so hard to get into the business, and I love doing it so much. That enthusiasm has never left me, and therefore now in my golden years, I'm still enjoying every minute of it. And I suppose you feel rather privileged to think that if they still want me and they can still do it and it shows they're still going well, I am privileged. And I just love it

And I say that shows on that ship It was an awful business getting out there and coming back And two shows of one hour, one evening With only a few minutes break in between It's quite demanding But it was wonderful You might not have got away with that stripy blazer up on that Clyde, did you? Oh no, no, you see

This is an interesting about image, isn't it, image? I mean, there I was in my Bible, see, my time, go out and there, my hands were like that and come up in Greece and Ireland and so forth But, you know, and people say, I can't imagine that. I know because you do something. And then, of course, when I worked as a straight man with Arthur Haynes, and I was always smart and swam, because you say, the foil to the working class representative that he was.

And people always think that, you know, was one was a, you know, that was the image, that was me. And then when you wore lots of different clothes doing a, presenting a quiz show, which is a very cool job to do and trying to keep the people, they think that is definitive view. And I say, no, no, that is your image of me. And for that job, that's the image I have to project. For that job, that's the image I have to project. And when we do just a minute, it's a bit different image one's projecting, because we're having fun, I'm dealing with comedy,

I'm dealing with some of the wonderful comic minds and the professional. Oh, it's great, but whatever job you do, it's a perceived image. It's not the you. I mean, you as a professional are projecting something, which is akin to the real Jonathan Agnew, but that is your professional image. And maybe at home, you're a little bit more laid back and casual and relaxed. We don't know, but not professionally, see.

You can't work at this rate, actually, in real life all the time, can you? No, I'm more selective. The blowers would explode, I think, if he was himself for any more than 20 minutes that he is behind that microphone. Exactly, exactly. It's great to speak to someone of your age about cricket, Nicholas, because you really can take us back, can't you? Oh, absolutely.

A long one way back when you first encountered this great game. Were you doing pre-war? Oh, of course, pre-war. Yes, I remember back in the 30s. I was always imbued with the sport of following the sport. I mean, I've always played a lot of games, and I'm a great sports person. If I hadn't been an actor, I think I'd love to have been a professional sportsman. And it's interesting that rugby was the one I excelled at and got my colours and everything,

and I was at Glasgow University for three years, and played actually in an Eastly West trial for Scotland. Really? Where were you? Someone in the backs, were you? Yes, and everybody says, well, I'm 12 and a half stone, always have been, haven't changed. I was in the forward, and they said, but, yes, I was loose head, but they said, you know, your weight. But when I was one of the heaviest in the pack. The game's evolved in a way where now you get the 13, 15 stone fellows in the pack, which is, didn't happen then. But cricket, which I did well at school and university, but I, um,

I didn't excel on this, I did in other games, but I loved it. And I've always had this passion for following it. And my county, which I adopted as a follower, was Surrey, because my father was a doctor, had taken a practice in Capham, and it wasn't far from the Oval. So I used to go to the Oval and watch them all from the boundary there. I remember sitting down there with my little packer sandwiches. I can tell you the name of that team that I watched.

I mean, it was... The first Surrey team, yes. The first Surrey team that I... saw which was Andy Sandham was still playing there. Hobbes had retired. It was Sandham, Gregory, Squires. You know, they didn't have the names, Christian names. It was the professionals names. Squires. I think it was Stan Squires. Barling. Fishlock, who did play for England once or twice. J.F. Parker. He wasn't, you know, Parker J.F. And then, of course, the captain, then E.R.T. Holmes, amateur. And vice captain, H.M. Garland Wells. And then was the the other fast bowler wats who opened with gover and brooks was the woodkeeper and that was the team and govah there's a name that actually we can link us together because i i was lucky enough to go for coaching at alf govers cricket school in wandeth actually what a what a lovely what old pretty old man he was when i when i met him i'd love to see him in his pomp he was the legends abound of alf over yes because he was called the flatfooted fast bowler

he used to run up up this long run and he didn't look as if he had flat foot But he was a good, but the sad thing about him, I remember when Reno Porch was that Alv had more catches dropped off him than any other fast bowler bowling at that time. He didn't have a very good team to support him. Sorry, it weren't shining very well at that time. It was only after the war when they had those wonderful teams of PHB May and others and then of course the golden year and the bedsers. And then the golden years under Stuart Surridge and with Laker and Locke and and our other ones and you know five years running they were number one in the in the is it was it the league no the championship in the championship yes that that's that's a little senior moment so you see it does get in the championship of course we can forgive you and no it's just

trying to get over all the information in the limited time we have but I gover was the man was he not who in India had a tack of the deli belly when he's running in a bowl and it actually did let go of the ball and kept running didn't he into the dressing room that's right He kept running out. And he went right in the dressing room. They came in eventually knocked on the gents. They said, excuse me out. Can we have the ball back?

Yes, I don't know if it's a pockful or not, but it's always an Alth Gover story. But you know, that lovely, slightly shambolic coaching school above the garage in Wandsworth. In Wonsworth, yes. Did you go to that? Yes, because when I started to playing charity cricket for the Lord's Taverners, I realised I should get a little bit more proficient. So I went along to Alph's place. And, of course, then I told him of my connection, love for Surrey.

and Alf was very good because he became president of the sorry cricket club one time and I went and did a couple of speeches for him and of course then once I did start playing charity cricket for the Lord's Taverners then of course my cup was flowing over because I was turning out in charity cricket matches in the 60s with some of my heroes I mean with Dennis Compton and Bill Edrich Bill became quite a mate actually Godfrey Evans and and and Ritchie Benham, I've just seen as a couple games game.

It was a dream come true. And there were these great heroes, these great players. And I was walking out to play with them, you know. And they were telling me where to go in the field. Yes, sir. Thank you very much, sir. In fact, I've actually played here at Lords. Now, that was another dream come true.

It was quite a we were playing a game of a, my dear Colin Cowdery, whom I became very friendly with. And Colin, we were playing down there to the, to the left, I remember it vividly. But walking down the steps of the Lord's Pavilion for someone who's got this passion for the game and walking out to bat, it was a game of one or two celebrities and one or two top cricketers.

And I got a few runs. The boundary was quite close on that side. And I remember Jack Simmons of Lancashire was bowling. And I got one of the two off him. And what I say about a charity cricket game is that cricket is great, because in charity, they've come to see you play. they've gone to see people get runs

because you don't want to get the whole team out for 12 because there's nothing to watch and we want to make money like going around and talking and I've always said and Frendle and I've played it so many times at Bill Frindall because he used to play great deal, he was very good fast bowler, wasn't he? Fearless, farsome sight, not like Ryan Sidebottom.

He saved my life once when he was on the commentary box because I would rather go out and face a professional fast bowler or a professional bowler, a top club cricket. Because they see a celebrity walk out. They've got this big crowd. They've never had norm. He's just had a few friends watching.

And suddenly, celebrity comes out. Oh, gee, this is it, you know. Fired up. They want to get his scalp so they can boast about it in the pub next day. And they really fire it, actually. Or even try and hit you probably. And once, actually, I was playing it. I can remember what the game was now.

It was up at Penn Street. It was a beautiful little ground. little ground beside the pub there. And this fellow came in my very first ball. And it was an absolute beamer. And it was, dear Bill Frundel was on the commentary at the time. He said, come off it, come off it. Look, he's a celebrity.

He's not a professional cricketer. Faye back. And I did, I mean, my first ball, so fortunately, my reactions must have been quite good thing because I was in the middle age. I did duck out of it. And I only realized, next day, I was opening in the West End of London in the Rocky Horror Show.

I could have been maimed. Might have been knocked away from it, is. In fact, I was then on the Council of the Lord's Taverners, and I brought this up, and I said, by the way, do we have any insurance on our cricket games? And they said, no, I don't believe we do. I said, I think you should make those arrangements because, you know, we could have accidents. But I played against some of the top cricket. And that game I was mentioning about with Jack Simmons, I hit him for a few.

And I think Jack thought, this is what they can do, you see. He wasn't being too aggressive. And then he pulled me an impossible ball. And then I went past him. He said, I thought you'd had you a bit of fun. And that's what I think it's all about. I'll tell you one amazing distinction I have. Can I boast about it?

Please. I bowled Dennis Lilly out. Did you? Yes. Authentically? Authentically. He was ready for it? No, he wasn't.

He wasn't expecting it. It was one of the Lawrence Tavernus charity games. It was at Stockett's Manor, and we were playing a team got together by Kestner, because the man who was Cosette, who was an Australian. He's great mate was Dennis Liddy, so he was in his team, and we had this Tabernus' team. I was captaining the Tavernor team for that time, and we were getting them out.

In a charity game like that with the celebrities, it's almost traditional, having taken our professional bowlers off, John Price was there, bowling and Fred Rumsey, and they'd had their little spell. then you put each celebrity on for two overs, so the public see them. They get knocked about a bit, and if they get knocked too much, you bring back the pros. And this is how you organise a charity cricket match, less now than it used to be, by the way. And so I remember my old mate, Darden Smith, he said,

Can necklace, you haven't done your two overs. And I was being rather modest. I was captain. I can't suddenly put myself on. No, I don't know, so I held back. And I thought, well, when they're getting out, it's almost end of the sequence, I better go on. So put myself on. I didn't actually recognise it was Dennis Lill at the other end. Now, what I say is that I'm not a bowler.

I used to be a wiki-keeper actually, but I can hit the ball occasionally. But I do bow one good ball a season. Right. And that one good ball happened to go then to Dennis. Poor old Dennis got it, did he? And he got it. And he was out. I mean, and of course, when a celebrity gets out at top pro, the chair was in bed.

I wanted to retire from the game there and then. I mean, this was it. Dennis must have sled you, presumably, did he? No, but the awful thing was the next man who came in was his friend who was running the team and given us 5,000 pounds, you know, towards the charity. And I thought, unfortunately, bowled another good ball in that older and got him out. Now, in these charity games, we should have said, no ball, no ball. And of course then I was in the doghouse. I bowled out the man who'd given that charity all this money.

You don't do that sort of thing. So, but the payoff is that when I went into bat, who was bowling? Who was bowling? Dennis Lilly. Oh dear. And the crowd was sort of thinking, oh, we're going to see something now. That's the revenge. But Dennis was a great sport.

Recognise it was a charity game. He put a couple, you know, and they can do that a pro. They can put it on the spot and make it look like a good ball, but it isn't. It's something you can get your back behind. And I got one or two runs off him. And then as he walked back, there was something about his shoulders. I thought, I'm not going to see this next ball, am I?

And I didn't. So that's one of those great moments of cricketing, memorabilian history, which means so much. Tell me about cricket, going way back, what was the atmosphere like in a cricket ground all those years ago? Was it very different to how it is now when you'd go along there? You mentioned with your little sandwich box and so on. I mean, you'd be frisked of that today, probably, going to a modern test. No, no, frisking. No, it wasn't sophisticated as it is now.

I mean, you all look out here at Lords. I mean, all the new stands they've built, there's a great sort of sophisticated. about it and I think actually when cricket and when the one day game came in being a purist towards the sport I thought oh dear no this this isn't this isn't right isn't on but it's I think it's done wonders for the sport and now I really love the one day game and it's lovely to watch the technique and the style because you know the game's going to finish and they're going to get a result and this is very exciting And I recognize that people develop a different technique for the one-day game and the three-day game, of course, when I was a young, when I had a five-day match.

It was four-day test matches for a time, and then it's another five days. But the thing is, what I don't understand, and maybe you as a cricket, they can explain it to me, they say, well, he doesn't have the technique for that. Is it the same as we as performers? I mean, some people, I can do lots of different things. I've been a serious actor, a comedy actor. I've done stand-up comedy and, you know, I've done game shows and quiz shows. I adapt my professional technique to encompass whatever discipline is required for that particular job. Versatility is the word, isn't it?

That's what we're looking for, I think. Versatility. Yes, it's the versatility, but you adapt your technique to whatever the job demands. Now, does the average cricketer, is he become a specialist in five-day games, the specialists in one-day games. I would have thought that the difference is only marginal. They could have adapted their approach and their technique so they can encompass both.

That's absolutely right. And England at the moment still seem to be going through a phase of not knowing whether they pick people who bowl a bit and bat a bit and therefore are useful in a one-day setup or whether they go for those specialists and who play test cricket and who you hope can adapt to playing. But Michael Vaughn's quite a good case in point, isn't he? Someone who's really struggled in one-day cricket.

He's had lots of chances, never scored 100, and he's gone out. So I guess he hasn't had that versatility. I suppose one of the best examples of that was to Scothic, who's unfortunately not available at the moment, but hope he will be. Let's hope he does recover from his stress-related illness. Because obviously you could tell,

I mean, he had that positive way of playing and that aggression, which he can hold himself back and play more subduedly when it's necessary for five days and can really go out and be very powerful. positive and a one day game. I think Alster Cook's got it as well. Yes, he has. Yes. I'm trying to get this sort of atmosphere of your early years of watching cricket. Was it very polite? Was it very genteel? And as far as the players were concerned, did they throw themselves around the field? Did they come dashing in as energetically? Wait, wait,

was it, was it a completely different game, do you think now? Not a completely different game. Oh, no, not completely different. But it's like a lot of things. It's become more professional and therefore it's come more, more business as more money involved. So it's become what I call more sophisticated. So the seating arrangements are far more sophisticated. The ordinary areas where we used to sit there were quite basic, hard benches and very uninviting. The pavilions were much the same. The players had a, I mean, of course, one of the things I remember particularly of all was that the amateurs, the gentlemen, will walk out to the center of the pavilion. And the poor player

the ones who were paid to do it, would have to come round the side. Terribly. Did it strike you as being rather odd? I always thought it was a bit odd, but I didn't, wasn't sufficiently, as a youngster's, a boy, it wasn't, you just accepted it. You didn't question it to see whatever. In fact, you accepted the, you know, the gentleman be players games. You know, what's an ambitious thing to say?

Certain people, because they weren't being paid were gentlemen, and those who were being paid were players. You know. It does seem absurd now, doesn't it, looking back at that. It does. It wasn't. It has evolved. And now, of course, the more money in the game with the one days and now the 2020s, which has got quite exciting, but not as good as the one day's. It's a bit of a village cricket type thing. And I'm not sure that it helps the player's technique to have to go out and almost try and hold back, but also slog a bit like that. The thing about sport is, and it's less so now, because I think they're a bit aggressive about it, but it's when I at young, you know, we played. If you lost, you, there was no dishonor in losing. You played to the best. Now, of course, they all want to win, which is good. But it does show me life is about being successful. And if you are successful, it's always at somebody else's expense. I mean, I'm in the most competitive profession in the world. We're 75% of members of our union equity are always unemployed. It's tough. It's very tough to get anywhere. Very tough to achieve anything. So you have to accept that competitiveness, keep your sense of proportion and enjoy what you do.

But you can play your game and enjoy it and be competitive. And from that you learn that. But youngsters by playing games, by playing sport, can express themselves, get rid of a lot of surplus energy which all these youngsters have, and learn how to take the knocks if they come. And if you lose, it's far more important to go out and play a sport and lose and come back fighting and try and win the next time you're not playing.

Let's move away from cricket for a while because I want to talk to you. There's people, there's you, there's Bruce Forsyth, there's Dear Bob Monkhouse, of course. Just the faces of 40-something's lives. I mean, you were there on our television sets all the time. But particularly, those three, I guess, real iconic figures.

Are you still recognised around the streets now as you might have been maybe 20 years or so ago? Oh, yes, I'm still recognised. And thank goodness, because we're, Once you stop being recognised, you know, you realise you've had it. Because it's a strange thing. If you don't appear quite frequently on your television screens, people to think you're dead. And, I mean, you can star in the West End and have a run for well over a year.

And it'll be probably the most memorable thing that you've achieved in your professional life. And yet fewer people will see you in one year than see you in one night on television. Indeed. And I've, I mean, I first came to the public's consciousness or whatever you want to call it in the 60s when I worked with the Arthur Haynes. And we had that comedy partnership which was so successful in ITV. And it ran for 10 years and we got all the accolades and everything we went to America and what's the matter?

That's all right. I'm asking Shilber to say some lunch for us because relax. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. They're going to go on for a while. They'll eat it all downstairs. That's what I do. into the listeners he was making mad signs in front of me and I thought maybe the

microphone wasn't on or my flies when I'm done or something about that and so but he was what he was saying is that when we finish the conversation we would like some lunch so he's only did it all up thank you John if I'm going to looking after my inner man I am and so where were we yes and so that was a great period and this is what established me with the public and it's probably everything I've done since then stem from that because once you become an established name you're more likely to be cast in something but I went from there and did a lot of theatre work

I started in the West End in a number of plays. And the biggest trial probably was Boeing, Boeing. I did that for 18 months. And it was a wonderful part for any young man. And, but the sad thing is, you see, that all these things you've done, which I'm particularly proud of, because it required more of a talent, something which required less of my talent, and I found it quite easy, was a quiz show.

And the sale of the century, which ban in 19... I have to bring that up, you see, because I wasn't a West End go in my youth, but I did watch Sale of the Century. There you were. I mean virtually every night beaming there on the screen. I'm afraid that's what I'll have to remember you for, Nicholas. Well, it doesn't matter. I'd rather you remember for just a minute than said of the century if you want to, because you're a radio man as well. But the thing is, no, I mean, it was incredibly successful and naturally you don't buck success. I'm very proud of the success I had because whatever you do, you must have contributed to it. But it was so amazingly commercially successful that it has been remembered to the exclusion of a lot of the other things that I've ever done. And it didn't run for a record 14 years, and we did have the most amazing viewing figures.

I mean, we were always just over 20 million. What was the format? I was trying to think, what did you have to do? You asked questions of your guests. I think one of the reasons it was successful is it was a brilliant format. It created by a man called Al Howard, and it was in America. Came over here, and I had questions. I wrote all the questions for about the first 10 years.

and so you ask some very simple questions to put them in their ease and then you offer them some goods knocked down price, some very attractive goods and the premise was that then they had to make up their mind whether to pay them, spend their money and buy something they like and run the risk that they may not have the most money at the end because the one who did have could go for the big change.

They went through and see I'm going to get confused with the generation game conveyor belt I mean it wasn't a conveyor belt was it? A curtain went open and there'd be a game gleaming boat or something. No, no, the conveyor belt won't feel, and they had to guess things, and the things they could remember on that conveyor belt was the things they kept. No, they went in, the one who had the most money at the end, on the quiz side of it, answering questions, was the one, oh, and then go into the sale of the centre at the end, and they

were offered a selection of four different items, all priced a certain lockdown price, and depending on how much money they had, they could buy one or any of them, or maybe two. And this was the thing, but they had on the way to make these decisions, whether to buy some of these goods which were on offer, in which case they might not finish up as a winner or save their money and get the most money at the end and go for the same of the century. Well, they might save their money but still not come out on the winner.

So there was a lot of decision-making. And that's what makes for a good success because first of all, you have the competition, people answering questions, people love watching competitions, but when you also have decisions to make, and so you generate this, and I know from people who have members of the public, spoke to me and said oh how much they enjoyed it and they would shout at the

screen you know don't take it don't take it you see and and I think the loveless thing of all which makes me feel that that person really was involved remember meeting one person once he said oh I don't like that game of yours he said do you know I was watching it last night you said you know he said I bought the arm shares and I got the thing and I got to the side of the century I got the car and he was living it Oh, it's fantastic. Was that the real pioneer of television games shows?

Was there the other ones around? No, no. Before that, you had the big successes were double your money with Huey Green. Oh, of course, yes. And the other one with Michael Miles, take your pick. And they were the two top shows. Open the Box, was that one as well? That was it open the box, Michael Miles.

A very simple game, since asking questions, Huey Green's personality meant a lot, and Michael Miles had less, but he did it very well. and he had these games, he played the yes or no game, and you get money. But you have to remember, which maybe a lot of people don't know now, that during the early days of ITV, they only allowed ITV really controlled, and then it became the IBA, they really controlled the network, and they laid down rules, particularly about game shows,

and they would only allow two what they call major giveaways in one week on the network, three in one area. There were a number of simpler shows, not simpler in prize money, but only two big prizes. Nowadays, it came in 1976 when it was called deregulation of television and they opened the floodgates and it became utterly commercial like in America

and now they can have as many game shows as they like. And as a result, the press would take on this attitude that game shows were a bit, you know, they were a bit down market and they became very condescending the way they'd criticise them. And, I mean, nowadays they do the right thing. They criticize them whether it's a good game show

or a bad game show. Yes. And there's nothing much you can criticise on a game show unless you have a go at the phone in front. So when Sale of the Century of the Century started and became incredibly successful, and it really was, I mean, we hit the jackpot and the second year we were running, we ran for the whole 52 weeks because there wasn't another comparably good game show on. And this, I got from the press, this awful press sort of really cateringame and then how I spat

out the questions of the contestants and now I was going there. But what I was doing as an actor, I was trying to make it dramatic and exciting by bringing a sense of drama into it. And the questions I wrote for the last sequence, which were very quick, snappy questions, on the basis that required on quickness of recall in order for them to make more money. And I used to talk to contestants beforehand, to put them in their ease so they would be at ease with me when I was putting the pressure on. And I used to say to them, I said, you know, if I snap you off towards the end because I want to get on with it, remember, I'm doing this for your sake, not only great excitement, but look at it logically, the more questions I can get in in the time available, the more money potentially you can make. And when you think of me being criticised for being aggressive, and you think of the way Miss Robinson runs the week is late now, I mean, it's ridiculous.

I'm amazed you that you wrote your own questions. I mean, you mentioned Ms. Robinson, she wouldn't be doing her. Well, I've always been fascinated by general knowledge. I've always had quite a good general knowledge. And when I first got the job, it was an American show, and they sent up all these ghastly questions from America because it came with a package. And they were terrible, and I told me, I said,

I can't read these out. So I started writing myself. It was only after a year when they said, we're going to get somebody else to do the question. I said, but why? I've been doing them all. I said, to Peter Joy, I'm a producer. I said, I said, you didn't think that those were the stuff you sent from America. He said, I thought they sounded a bit British.

I said, it was me. He said, but it's illegal. The IBA won't allow it. You mentioned the competition between cricketers, of course, and so on, but the competition between, I know you, Huey Green, Bruce Forsythe, Michael Aspel, I'm trying to think, any others. There were those sort of little group of you, really, weren't there, who were the frontmen for all these programs?

No, no, it's a very competitive profession. I mean, you only get a job at someone else's expense. I mean sometimes there's been jobs in the theatre and films and so forth that I was very anxious that I would get and when they cast somebody who I didn't think was quite up to it then you would get a bit nift but I've always had this attitude if somebody got a part in a play or a film or something which I particularly wanted and they are good

and I'm very happy because I thought well they preferred him it was their choice I can't complain about that and they at least have the talent to do the job because there's so many people around who have got lots of talent And there's a lot of luck in whether they choose you, because you always are the mercy of whether your personality or your talent appeals to the person who's casting it. But there's no rivalry when I was doing a quiz show in that sense. I mean, I mentioned there's other two, Huey Green and Michael Miles. Those two shows had disappeared, and there was a vacancy for a good new quiz show.

And that's why Sail of the Century happened to fill that niche, and it took off and became successful. I think that Bruce Forsyth is one of the most successful game show host because Bruce has got this incredible ability to engage with the audience and almost not insult them but have fun with them at their expense and they don't take offence. It's a huge, huge gift. I mean, take one quiz show that you pair your cards right. I was on a program quite recently being interviewed.

They said, your show was voted one of the best. Do you think the quiz show host makes it? I said, no, it's a contributory factor, but you take a quiz like Player-Pars-Rite, which I don't think was a great game. But Bruce's personality. It was all just a gamble, wasn't it? And Bruce, yes, and Bruce is a way to play it, and his personality made it a huge success. Bob Bunkhouse was superb at his job, a great game show host. But nowadays, they're more inclined to guess to get younger people who do a rather bland a job.

But maybe that's what they want. You know, you can't complain, because if that's what the employer wants you, you have to go with it. Chris Tarrant, I mean, his show, do you also? Oh, Chris, is great. I mean, of today's lot, I mean, Chris is absolutely the tops. And I do think that a millionaire is one of the best Chris shows ever. I mean, I enjoy watching it, and Chris runs it brilliantly. But it's what I'm saying earlier on.

It's all the ingredients that make the success. So somebody's got a superb idea, and they've refined it with this thing about, multiple choice which was a new thing was always questions and answers before and then you've got in a phone a friend and 50 50 and those other things you've got all these different factors and then you need the right guy to write and Chris is superb at that in fact it's not the way he's run other quizzes the way he ran that one is he's developed a technique there which it's all those ingredients coming together which makes for a huge success what was early tally like because you

It must have been there. There's a real pioneering days, isn't you? Yes. The camera on the stilts and being lugged around. Oh, I'm old enough. I'm old enough, Jonathan, to tell you that I was in the very, one of the very first plays ever done from Alexander Palace, where it all began. And I continued the play. It was an old card's famous, Hey Fever.

And the director was Fredo Donovan, who has come from radio. And it was a small studio. And of course, it was all live. You had to keep it going. keep it going and the heat was unbelievable because they hadn't got it refined they needed these tense cameras and the cameras are very heavy and solid and they didn't have these runners and they had to organize it lots of rehearsals on this heat to make sure that that camera could get in there to take that shot and so forth and we kept going and don't take it hours in it well no once this

show was going we had to keep going because you've got to edit and like that never been thought of even with the Arthur Haynes show which was in the 60s we It was still live television. We didn't. I mean, tape had come in then, but they couldn't edit tape. So we saw it be treated it as live. Oh, word. That was a real pressure on there, then.

Oh, yes, I'm doing a comedy show under pressure, which is fun, but the play was easier because you could time it and make sure I'd all finish. But when we, and Arthur would never learn all the lines. He was the main man, though. It was the main man. I know, but he used to alarm me. I had a good memory used to keep all the words of the sketch in my head, and often he would dry, and he'd look at me as you're looking at me now.

And he just, and I knew he'd gone. So I then had to feed him in the line. And then he'd gag about that. He loved being spontaneous. And there were we gagging and had living together. Great experience. And the audience loved it because they see something had gone raw. And we were improvising.

But then again, we get messages from the four managers just behind the camera to speed it up because otherwise they're going to go run over time. But you could never train. It is training really that, isn't it like that today? What a way to be yes to start? But then again, you see, as an actor I started in rep, where you did a weekly rep, a different player. every week and you're rehearsing and learning the part of one play during the day and then playing another one at night.

And, you know, all kinds of things would go wrong because some of the actors hadn't got their words fully in their head. Sometimes things would technically go wrong and you had to, you learned to improvise. And this is the greatest training you could have as an actor. And I mean, I mean, I was privileged with Arthur Haynes because it was a wonderfully successful show and we happened to blend. So professionally, it was a, it was a mutual rapport which created this sort of, as a professional. It was a professional empathy, I think, would be a good word to use, which created a bond. I mean, like Eric and Ernie. Eric Mork and Ernie had it, and it was a magic that when they were together, I think we had something of that.

And it was very sad when he got a second heart attack and died. Mind you, he had changed his mind then, and he thought he was getting too much attention and got rid of me and got somebody else. But it didn't work quite so well. This is the proof of it. The public get used to that particular partnership. Yes. But it was a wonderful, wonderful time working with Arthur. And they say, live, it was so exciting.

This is, you see, the adrenaline pumps twice as strongly, because you know you can't make a mistake. And the minute it goes wrong, you've got to get out of it and still finish on time. Oh, I mean, I've had such a wonderful training. There's no wonder that I could encompass any kind of job now because my days in rep, my name was Arthur Haynes and improvised comedy on,

oh, and of course the sketches were written by that wonderful man, Johnny Spate. Right. That's how he started. And Johnny would round this. wonderful, wonderful ideas, wonderful sketches. I'm actually trying very hard now to get these sketches back on television. Because we all...

They'll work now, would they? Did they stand the test of time? Well, it depends, because they're all in black and white. And there is, to some extent, some of the shows, there is a period feel about them. But the sketches, the comedy, is timeless. It's wonderful, brilliant, original writing by Johnny Spate. And we did break new ground in comedy. and you'd have called us at the time

but they'd use the word alternative I think it's a ridiculous word anyway because there's no such thing you know something's funny it's funny there's nothing alternative to humour and we're talking to we're putting together a package and taking it to the broadcasters saying

here's this and it's timeless some of it and hopefully they'll buy it and it'll have a because a lot of people have forgotten about Haynes Parsons together. You see, Tony Hancock's and his sketches, and there are far fewer of his material available, and some of his stuff isn't as funny as ours. He was, they've always been reminded of

Tony as the years have gone by. His very clever brother, Roger, who was his agent, has always kept them in front of the public, so people remember it, and they have the memorabilia comes back and they enjoy it. And I'm afraid people have forgotten this. And we hope that we can revive something. There's still people who remember it. And also strike a call to people say, gosh, this is amazing. Well, so see you on reruns of Benny Hill shows, though. Yes, I did three years of Benny. What was he like as a individual?

Oh, Benny was one of the sweetest and loveliest men I've ever worked with. He was genuine. He knew exactly what he wanted, and he didn't leave it. But he did such gentleness and charm. And very generous. Most comedians have difficulty putting their hands in their pockets, you know. There's some insecurity there was probably driven them to becoming performance. them to becoming performers, going out there and facing an audience and getting that reassurance. And maybe the money they get is a reassurance that they can achieve it.

But I've met very few comedians who can open their pockets and, anyway. I mean, it's apocryphal. I mean, stories they tell about Max Miller from the old days and Tommy Cooper, who everybody loved. But Tommy never put his hand in his pocket. Tommy's great gag was that he'd meet you and he said, he said oh let's have a drink right yes it's um and you say thank you yes you have me right um he said what's yours and you say oh well i'll have a genotonic great i'll have one too thank you very much and that's the way it was then was yeah yeah never been and but but bennie

Arthur was reasonably generous and but Benny just money didn't mean anything to him used to give a wonderful party at the end of each show when he doesn't you know, there was unpaid checks and cash all over the place. Lovely man, sweet, sweet man. And to me, as someone who liked him immensely and got to know him very well, it is sad to think he has achieved more around the world that any other British comedian, with the exception of Charlie Chaplin. His programs are still played, not only in America,

where he became almost an icon, but all kinds of countries all over the world are playing the Benny Hill programs. because I get little repeat fees of £2.50 from Zimbabwe or somewhere. And he's achieved this great distinction, and yet he was never fully respected in his own country. Was it because it was slightly naughty humour, do you think? Do the British really take it? I mean, we all laughed and loved it,

but was there something that perhaps we shouldn't have liked about it? Oh, no, no. One or two people, because there was a great vogue then for being politically correct, and they thought the Summer Benny's humor was sexist because he used to trace, chase pretty girls. But he was also, I mean, the thing of one you have to remember, his humor came from the tradition of music hall, which was always like that, and seaside postcards,

and that's what he followed. But humor is very interesting. He was always the full guy. I mean, the pretty girl always got one over on him. He was always the one who suffered. And I don't understand it. There was a vogue then, and they were a bit insensitive about it

but he's still incredibly popular and when they did that revival quite recently as a retrospective of Benny it got incredible viewing figures I'm just very sad to think that the British don't accept him for the kind of humour he did and the tradition he came from which has appreciated

and enjoyed around the world still and yet not in our country very interesting isn't it? Can I finish on this thing about ageism because I suffer from it in a very amusing and interesting way On just a minute, which we haven't mentioned yet... We haven't, we should do.

I realise that being a good straight man, as I have been with Arthur Haynes and with Benny Hill, which you just mentioned, part of the foil being a bit straight man is to be the put-down guy. You can have others having jokes at your expense. And the thing is that in just a minute, I realise I've got free responsibilities. One is to keep the show going, to get it up,

to generate the fun and also be there as the butt for their humour. Right. And of course, some of the, in today's comics, absolutely wonderful. I mean, Paul Merton starts staying in the way, plays the game. We have such a wonderful people who want to come on it. I mean, it's really, you know, yourself, John, we don't get a fortune in radio, but people want to be in the show. Could you do just a minute on cricket?

Well, I'd try, but I mean... You speak for a minute on cricket without repetition. Without repetition, hesitation, repetition. I try, but I probably... Remember, I don't play the game, so I'm not doing it all the time. You've got the easy part. You can sit there under sport, yeah. But I've also, what I'm leading to say is that, that realize if you're going to be a straight man, you've also got to be prepared to take jokes about your age.

And people love jokes about age. And all the old, when I was with the four regulars, we had Peter Jones and Nimmer and Kenneth Williams and Clement Freud. They were all much the same age as me, but they still made jokes about my age. And the audience were all in laughter. It's an interesting thing about this country and humor and ageist humor. But I just feed on it now. if they want to make something. Well, you've mentioned the name there.

We had an email, actually, from Neil in Glasgow. Tell us some interesting experience about Kenneth Williams. You must have had plenty to share about him. Another comic that was recently. Kenneth was amazing, and I knew him when I worked in Rep at Bromley, which I mentioned before, because Kenneth used to come and guest occasionally. What a lot of people don't know was that he had aspirations to become a serious actor. He was a very fine serious actor.

It was only when he put on these voices and everybody loved it so much, He realized he had more commercial success as a comedian. He never actually respected that work he did in the carry-on films. He was a self-educated man, but he was an incredibly funny man. Before we went out to do just a minute, we would be talking there, and he would just tell us a story, as you might tell a story, about some experience you'd had the night before with some people you were with, and he would make it so excruciatingly funny.

We were falling about with laughter before he went out. He would do all the characters and the voices. is he was a natural, as we call it. It's funny, because a lot of comics I've found, all the ones that I've met, actually struggle to be funny in real life, and they feel that there's a terrible pressure on them to make people laugh, out of working hours, if you like, but, you know, here's so, and so he's going to make us laugh,

and that must be a terrible pressure on a comic. I think there's a very serious side to a lot of comedians. They've been analytical about it, because you have to be, you have to analyze your jokes, make sure, you know, refine them and so forth. Some people are naturally, a bullion and fun people like Tommy Cooper, who's just naturally funny, because everything he said, he was telling me a very serious story about working in Cabaret in New York,

and I was falling about a laughter. He said, look, well, he says, he's serious. He said, I was suffering. And it's interesting. You see, some people are naturally funny people, and other people are very serious about their humor. And also, you have to remember that there is the other aspect, there's the pathos.

And some of the best humor comes from pathos. It's appealing to something rather sad. And so in a lot of comics, there is that pathos, which they draw on to make a best example of all is Tony Hancock. He drew on his own experiences, you know, he was obviously a very depressed person, and he drew on that depression within him to create this fellow, you know, Alicia Hancock, you know, the fellow who lived in railway cuttings,

a man who had ideas above his station. But he was drawing on that side of his nature to create something very funny. But in real life, he was incredibly serious. He wasn't a funny man in real life, but his comedy, timing was such brilliant that he could make you laugh with it.

Comedy is a, it's a lifelong study, and I feel privileged to have worked in comedy all my life and with some of the greatest comedians and my knowledge and feeling and understanding of it is amazing and I think that's one of the things it keeps you going it's the fact it is always unpredictable you never know where the laugh is coming and how to do it and when I do my shows my after dinners and I tell me sometimes that joke will get a

better laugh than another time and I know it's that subtlety of timing that is breaking through and creating something I mean you've only got to hear an amateur tell a joke which you may be heard and it's quite embarrassing then you hear a pro tell it and it is that subtlety of timing that suddenly makes it funny and also it relies on the speed of delivery take my friend Paul Merton

who I think is a comic you can call him a genius but he's got one of the greatest comic brains that come across and on just a minute if you listen to him it's his speed of reaction and his instant reply it's the instantaneous

comic timing like that which makes it funny take it out of context and say, and repeat what he told you, you know, sometime later, it doesn't sound very funny. I mean, comedy is a fascinating world. You can sit down and write it and prepare it, and then you time it and do it.

At the time, you can work in spontaneous humor, which Just a Minute's all about. And that's why it's such a challenge and such a joy. And I must tell you, to finish, I know you're looking at the time. When I go to do Just a Minute, which is now my favorite job, it's exciting. another sort of adrenaline rush because you never know what's going to happen

and you're living dangerously professionally and it's that thing will it happen and somebody once said to me do you still get nervous and I said well I wouldn't be in the business if I wasn't but the thing is that as you get more experience your nerves take on a different attitude when you're young you're nervous because you think

wait a minute will it work can I hack it are they going to laugh I might fail yes it might fail but when you've done lots of experience. You know, like, just a minute. Yeah, I go out just a minute every time. I think, we've done it before. I've been doing it for 40 years now. I've done nearly 900 shows. I've done it. And you get a bit nervous and tense because you think, will it happen again? And so that, at far as in London, and you go out and hopefully something will happen, and it happens again.

And it's exciting and lovely. And that's again, I think there's affinity between cricket and show business. I think maybe that's why a lot of actors love cricket and like playing and watching it because it's the it's one of the games where antithesis of golf where if you don't make the correct stroke it's technically if you're not technically correct that ball won't travel but when you're out in the center there

and you get a ball coming towards you you know there's a correct way to hit it but you maybe have to improvise you have to do something and that's the instinct of the performer who's living dangerously out there and doing it and making work and it becomes magic and it's magic to the spectator and there's a great affinity

in cricket and acting particularly comedy acting well it's magic listening to you Nicholas really has and it's been far too long since we had you in here and it's a lighter that you've made it I thought you're going to say you've been here too far too long

no certainly not I could go on for ages you have given me one of my real personal frills being here not only at the Lords and watching the test match but being with all my hearing from Test Match Special, really. You've made it magic for me. Well, it goes to that saying,

we're as thrilled to have Nicholas Parsons with us as he was to visit Test Match Special. Nicholas died early in 2020 at the remarkable age of 96 and were still presenting just a minute until late in the previous year, a truly special man. Now, we hope we're enjoying these memories

as we celebrate 40 years of view from the boundary interviews. There's a whole load more available on BBC Sounds, including a chat with the air acting great Peter O'Toole. And where does Toole O'Toole bat there? He opened. You go in first?

Yes. Against all the hostile fast bowling? And what do you look like in a helmet? Well, we were playing in Northamptonshire and a distinguished pro was in the other side and he insisted that we all wear a helmet because the pitch was bouncing and taking spin. Oh, gracious.

So I went in the pavilion and I was given a helmet and I couldn't find my way out of the pavilion I stumbled around and I couldn't see where the door was and I felt and I'm sure I looked like a Dalek so I took it off Yeah And what about the bowling then?

Do you get any wickets? Sometimes I get a wicket or two I get a few maidens For me One run now is what Six runs meant when I was at war One wicket now means a five wicket hall. If I do a piece of

decent fielding, I'm very happy. If I take a catch, I'm delirious. And as long as I don't become a passenger with the team, I'll keep on playing. Are you good at sprinting around the boundary? Oh, that's a great side. I'm greatly encouraged by my team and say, go on, go on,

off he goes, off he goes, and I puff and pound. So look out for lots more of our classic view from the Boundary series and make sure you don't miss a thing. by subscribing to the Test Match Special podcast on BBC Sounds. Classic View from the Boundary on BBC Sounds. Alan Shear and Ian Wright are in my kitchen.

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