Test Match Special - #40from40: Nish Kumar

Episode Date: December 31, 2020

Star of The Mash Report Nish Kumar tells Jonathan Agnew about his journey in comedy and why visiting Test Match Special is a big moment for him and his family.

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Hello, this is Simon Mann here with another classic view from the boundary, as we celebrate 40 years of the iconic test match special lunchtime feature. Now, down the years, we've had a number of comedians as guests. John Clee, Stephen Frye, still go and Skelern to name but a few. For whatever reason, there seems to be a real connection between comedy and cricket, perhaps is the fact that they have so much time on their hand during the day while they wait for their evening gig, in a way not that much different from a batter waiting for his or her turn at the crease.

In September 2018, England were playing India at Southampton in a series that saw the retirement of Sir Alasda Cook and a number of thrilling games. Up in the commentary box, we were visited by comedian Nish Kumar, star of The Mash Report, News Jack, and all manner of panel shows. With his dad listening on in the background, he began by telling Jonathan Agnew that his visit to TMS was quite a significant one. I'm not putting any pressure on either you or me,

but this is the first thing I've done in my entire career that I know my family is engaging with. Yeah. My dad is here. My father is, this may well be a turning point in my relationship with my whole family because my dad might actually start telling our relatives in India

what I do for a living instead of saying that I've been on a decade-long gap year. At which point, there's got to be a few of them that are thinking, jail. They probably are. Or North Sea Oil ring. North Sea Oil rig. So are you suggesting that they haven't necessarily bought into your

your stand-up comedy? No, it took them a while to buy into it. They sort of, they rented it for a couple of years, then rescinded that, and now, I think now they finally bought. I think TMS is the last veneer of credibility that I needed. So you love your cricket, anyway, obviously. Absolutely, yeah. I mean, I think it's absolutely unavoidable.

If you're born in this country with Indian parentage, you can't really escape cricket. And it's one of the most interesting things is spending a lot of time at Indian. as I do, is seeing the relationship India has with cricket, because it's I mean, it's absolute fanaticism. It is. You know, I've seen pictures. It wasn't always

like that, though, I don't think. No, I don't think it was. But it's now tipped over into a kind of I mean, I've genuinely been to Hindu temples, where outside they have pictures of gods and the picture of Tendulka. Yeah. It is a sort of fanaticism, though.

It's the way that's tele that's done it and the IPL. But I mean, I just saw there, first of all, the mid-80s and there were huge crowds. Yeah, yeah. Calcutta, I remember, you know, 85, 90,000 there at Eden Gardens. But it wasn't quite the same sort of madness. Yeah, that's right. Yeah.

Yeah. And, fireworks and all that sort of stuff. It was just people who loved cricket. Of course. But slightly in a calmer atmosphere there is these days. Now it's really intense. And also, like, cricketers are kind of rock stars in India. Like, it's really hard to explain to people, especially people in England who don't necessarily like cricket

to explain that in India, Virart Coley's. basically Mick Jagger. Would it work here? Can you imagine? And we've got this new tournament that's going to get new people. Yes, sure. Southern Asian people they hope to come,

which suggests, therefore, they might try and tap into that sort of thing. Do you think it will work here? I mean, I hope that it brings people to the game. I'm slightly cynical about the idea of just shortening it and shortening it until eventually we end up with one over cricket or whatever it is. I'm always slightly wary about that

but then I was quite suspicious of 2020 and I think what I'm basically discovering is that when it comes to cricket my peak enjoyment of cricket would have been about 1973 had I been alive at the time It wasn't quite dull then I think Jeff Boycott blocking it

I think it's got a bit more entertaining easily even test cricket what do you remember then so here you are your first generation and your dad's here obviously love his cricket talking about Kerala with him which is lovely With cricket in your household then as a kid

Yeah What was it was it? Was it English cricket? Was it dad talking about Indian cricket? How did it all work? Well I've grown up with the spectra of the legend of Sunny Gavasker Have you? As a kind of hanging out My dad's favourite generation

Yeah my dad's hero Well he might meet him in a minute He's working with us today But I started watching cricket Really in the kind of early mid-90s When the Indian team was sort of Ten Dalka plus ten others but I will always have a huge amount of affection for that era

and particularly that England team as well the kind of England team of Alex Stewart Graham Thorpe and Darren Goff had a lot of down points as well the unity was actually, let's be honest cool, did they ever, didn't they? But I will always have a special place in my heart for that era of English cricket

especially Darren Goff was my absolute one of my heroes when I was the young man, yeah it was like it was that particular period of English cricket was when one of it was when What did Goffey do for you then? I just, I think he had, I liked the sort of slingy action. He was an English roller that could sort of muck in with the kind of Pakistanis with the reverse swing. He had that sort of slingy thing and he also stood up to the Australians.

And he was really one of the sort of England cricketers who really wasn't overawed by that Australian team, which was at the time just absolutely steamroller in everyone. Very committed, Goughy, wasn't it? I mean, you always knew you were getting 100% out of down at Gough. tearing in it, yeah. Did you ever meet Tendulka? Have you ever... I once touched the hem of his garment.

You touched the hem of his garment? I hope appropriately. We went to see India play Sri Lanka at the Oval. I think it would have been in 2002. And just as he was coming up, we were sat in the stand just underneath where the dressing rooms are, and just as he was coming past.

Everyone was sort of patting the players on the back. And I just remember just slowly, I was like an out-of-body experience. just slowly reaching out and just stroking Tendulka's back. It was not my finest moment in retrospect, but I think I was so sort of, I mean, I queued for three hours

in probably the late 90s to meet Brian Lara. So it was like, there were a certain kind of totemic cricketers in my mind. Well, there are certainly two of that generation, aren't they? Yeah, and seeing Tendulka in person was a pretty overwhelming experience. How did he feel? He felt classic. Did he? He felt classy, and he smelt superb. Again, disappointing if he hadn't. So it's a positive experience.

It was a completely positive experience for me. For him, I imagine it was quite disconcerting. It might have been. But yeah, he's kind of used to it. And you mentioned Sonny, I mean, we work with Sunny in India as well. Yeah. And the adulation for these people. Yeah, it's incredible. It is extraordinary. I mean, do you think it's healthy? Do you think it's good? I don't. I mean, I'm not sure how healthy it is for the people involved. I'm not sure. Because I imagine

Ten Dawkers had quite tricky life and you read things about him that he has to kind of he can really only go places at midnight because otherwise he'll be mobbed and I imagine that's quite tricky I mean for the country every nation needs its heroes and I mean

in this country our footballers tend to be the kind of national icons and in India the cricketers just fill that role but it's just so much more intense because it's a nation of a billion people you know there's you know Virot Koli's shoulders are currently carrying the hopes of a sixth of the world's population or whatever it is.

So, I mean, the pressure must be incredibly intense. It must be. And I don't understand how they cope with that quite. I mean, I was sat at cricket grounds in India when Tendulka, where the openers had gone out, as it were. And there's a very small crowd. Yeah. Remember this particularly where we're in Nakhpur, I think, or somewhere like that. And then word gets out, Tendulka's about to come in, the Wicked Falls.

And you could just see a sort of cloud of dust coming towards the cricket ground. It'd be like the roadrunner, but it would be about 2,000 motorbikes, all kicking up this dust and parking at the ground on everyone. Suddenly the ground's full. It's extraordinary. It was incredible how he played his cricket so brilliantly, but with that pressure. Yeah, it is, I don't, I almost can't relate to what that must be like. No.

To have that weighing on you the entire time. And especially for periods where he was carrying the team, kind of in the kind of late 90s, but really before the kind of emergence of the gangular era, Yes. He was carrying the team for a long time. And then that kind of early 2000s period when Indy came through with Dravid

and there was a bit more and Saywag, there was a bit, I think, easier for him. I love to say work. Oh, Seawag. He was, he was box office. He was absolute, but it was a zero or a hundred, very little in between. Yes.

It was, he was pure box office. I've never seen someone, it was funny, but that he was in the team at the same time as Rahul Dravid because he couldn't have had, no, you couldn't have had two more opposite players. Dravid is the absolute textbook, technical batsman. You could teach kids how to play cricket just by showing them video of Rahadravid.

And then it must have been so frustrated for him to look down the other end and see Saywag. I don't think he moved his feet once in 10 years. Carving a ball here all over the place. Swinging wildly, but also just pure hand-eye coordination as well. The most extraordinary ability to just plant his feet like a baseball player and just absolutely smash the portal all past the ground. It must have been, yeah, I mean, that's the joy of cricket, isn't it? Total contrasts.

Complete contrasts, and you can have, there's so much technique and so much stuff that you can learn, but there is also the space for genius and unteachable genius. Tell me about queuing up for Brian Lauer, then. Where was that? He was in Debenham's on Oxford Street. What? What's he doing in there? It's a different era of cricket.

Right. Brian Lara did a signing when he came out with this kind of range of, I think maybe it was clothing. It was certainly like a Brian Lara signature range. Right. And we went to... Honestly, I think it might be a combination of the two. But I honestly, if my cousins hadn't been with me,

I would have thought that I made this up. Because we went to Oxford Street to the Debenhams and there was a queue of thousands of people. Right. And everyone was waiting and it was just a full queue. of West Indians and Indians who were queuing to meet Brian Lara

and it was you know it was so intense that we ended up waiting I think for sort of two and a half hours in the queue to try and get to him and when we did meet him and I've got Brian Lara's autograph signed on what I've got an old autograph book

that I also have Brian Lara's autograph and I also have the autograph of Phil Tufnell I've got Tuffer's autograph yeah I met him When did you get that? I met him at probably when he retired at Bronsbury Cricket Ground he had this kind of event

for the end of his career. I would dare say Tuffers wouldn't remember it because even though I was quite young at the time I was certainly old enough to know he was somewhat refreshed. I think you've got the wrong man. I think you've got a forged Phil Tuffel autographic. I can't believe Philip will have been like that. He was somewhat refreshed in the mid-afternoon. Oh no, definitely not Tuffus. How dare you? How dare you possibly

here we are Lara was at Debenhams oh it was a jeans company you see right that's thank you indeed Henry for that yeah there you go in August 95 so a long time ago wow that is a long time ago at least you got his signature I got his signature once when he got his 375 at Antigua I had an Antiguan t-shirt oh really yeah I thought I've got to get it and it was for my soon-to-be wife a charity event what could be better to auction Brian Lara on an Antigua shirt on the day scored 375 and I went up to interview him, got the felt pen. Best wishes, Brian Lara, all over the front of that T-shirt. I thought fantastic, I'm in here. I had a last bit of persuasion for Emma, really.

This was going to clinch it. This was the deal clincher. Got home, I was in a bachelor flat, open the suitcase, you know, washing machine. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Out it came. Can I tell you, Purcell does wash whiter. Ruined. Beautiful T-shirt. Beautiful t-shirt. But anyway, it was... Beautiful T-shirt, absolutely spotless. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that was disappointing. Did you play? You're very, very badly. I played probably from the age of about... Probably from eight or nine until I was about 14 or 15 years old. And I started out as an opening bowler.

and then I just started out as right arm fast And then fast medium I've got it's quite you know There's elements of Lassith Malinga about my head There is, there's a good start It was, but then the what happened was that the other kids all grew And I did not So I slowly went from fast medium to medium fast to medium

And when I ended my glorious crickets in career I was an off-spin bowler Just by the, I didn't really turn the ball I just was bowling quite slow I think, and what I was hoping for was a sort of gust of wind would drag it back into the batsman. But yeah, I played, I won, I mean, this is something I've talked about on stage a few times. I played for Addiscombe Cricket Club in Croydon, and I won, when I was 11 years old, I won an award for cricket. And whenever you say that to people, people go, oh, you must have been quite a good player.

But I always say, wait until you hear the award, because they, it was better, the awards were best batsmen, best bowler, and best all-round player. I didn't win any of those. I won an award called Clubman of the Year. Oh, that's always another nice. Which I subsequently found out was presented on the criteria of the boy who'd shown the most enthusiasm in the face of an overwhelming lack of ability. That's what it usually is. Yes, as a little tip, if you see yourself being nominated as Clubman of the Year,

I think you just erase your name. It's a very nice award to have. It's a lovely award to have. It is a reflection of your ability, though, I'm afraid. It is a reflection. It's to date the only piece of it. of any success I've enjoyed in sport is

1997 or maybe 1996 Addiscom Colts Cricket Club Clubmen of the year Yeah Do you still keep the trophies? I've still got the trophy. I've still got the trophy at all. It was, I think, because my dad is actually quite a sort of, he's quite a good sportsman

and in fact quite a lot of my family are quite very sort of naturally talented. Two of my cousins, one of my cousins certainly played for England up to the under 19s. Okay, right. And his brother was also a really, really talented cricketer. Across my entire family,

there's just, you know, people who are just, if not outstanding, at least have a kind of natural faculty for ball games. Whereas I don't, I'm some sort of outlier. Malcolm Gladwell could write a whole book about some kind of weird rogue element that I have absolutely no hand-eye coordination whatsoever and have the sort of natural body shape

of a 50-year-old accountant. It's like the combination. I don't really know where it went wrong for me. But you see, where I would have had you, if you were in my team, because you, I think, would be perfect at this. I would have you close enough to the batten. I think I'll probably have you fielding in the gully. Because I reckon you would be a magnificent sledgeer.

Because sledging for me is not being rude and horrid and nasty. It's the acerbic one-liner that digs away at the batsman. And I think a comedian, a cricketing comedian, would be a fantastic sledgeer, in the proper sense of sledging, just interrupting a batsman's train of thought, getting into his head, being a little bit rude. I think that probably would be my best position. I think you would. I think, yeah, I think if you've got a really strong team.

You've been a team sledger. Yeah, the team sledger. Just have me out there, just in the batsmen's air. I mean, we're comedian, so we're used to being heckled. So, I mean, I'm pretty sure I could turn around some of the stuff that I've heard on stage. Yes. And get into people's heads. Yeah, because that's what that's all about.

Tell me about your comedy, come on, because that's, I mean, you said about your dad not really buying into, I don't necessarily believe that. But was it difficult for young first-inian generation Indian to go on stage, to stand-up comedy? It's sort of breaking new ground there. It's an oddly tricky thing for anybody to start a career in, because the problem is you embark on an unpaid apprenticeship for what is essentially an undetermined.

amount of time. So there are some people who, because you do these gigs for no money for years. Right. And some people, that sort of takes one or two years. And for some of us, it's a half decade slog. So with that sort of thing, you do have to, you are, there is an amount of necessary delusion to get you through the first couple of years of being a stand-up comedian. What made you want to do it? I mean, it's a pretty brutal business to me. I mean, I think the thing is, I always absolutely adored comedy. And I think there's a generation of British Asian comics coming through now that were pretty directly inspired by goodness gracious me

like if you look at the sort of timeline of it I think we were all comedy fans but there's something about seeing that show go on television a British Asian sketch show where the humour is kind of derived from the conversations around race but very much sort of punching out as Asians rather than having the joke beat on us

and I think that there is something about that I went to see them live at the Hackney Empire in probably, I think, 1999, and I think that that certainly planted the seed in my mind. And I think you're seeing now with people like Ramesh Ranganaithin, I think that you're seeing a lot of us come through now who were sort of facilitated by that. Just because when you see a bunch of Asians doing it, you go, oh, well, that's an option that's open to me.

Because I was a comedy fan, but I think just without that simple visual, it might not have occurred to me that it was something that I could do. See, that's interesting, because that takes us back to cricket again and the initiatives that are going on at the moment that ECB is doing to try and attract, particularly South Asians, actually, into cricket, needing role models, you know, where are the Asian cricket is playing for England now? And do you think that they do need an obvious role model out there to be attracted to this,

like you were with your comedy? I mean, I think you always, it's, you can't be what you can't see is a phrase that gets used a lot in terms of conversations around. diversity and I think that you do need somebody just to kind of open the doors for you and you know I think someone like Moen Ali is a great example of a cricketer who I think will open more people's minds up to the possibility that this is something that's available to them you know I think that I think that people like him are the really important figures going forward because ultimately you know as England cricket fans you want the best players

available so you want to be drawing from the widest pull possible you don't want sections of society feeling like the team is shut off to them and I really think that someone like Moen Ali is a really important figure in that sort of in that fight was it a hard start for you I mean when you think of stand-up comedy in the way in people beginning you think inevitably of northern clubs yeah sure smoke-filled rooms you know you've got 10 seconds or to make us laugh or two minutes make us laugh or you're out I mean well I don't like that for you I mean I I only started stand-up after the smoking ban came into effect, which I think was a mixed blessing because, on the one hand, the rooms were not filled with smoke.

But on the other hand, you could smell what was in the room. But yeah, it's a tricky few years when you're trying to figure it out. And, you know, I started doing stand-up when I was about 20 years old, 21 years old. And so, you know, it's a tricky, it's definitely a baptism of fire. But the system works, the way that you work it. So you spend years on the open mic circuit doing gigs for no money to people who a lot of the time don't even know they were going to see comedy.

They thought they were just out for an evening and just having a quiet drink in a pub and suddenly a stand-up gig has broken out around them. And very often they are not happy about it. And it's like it's the perfect training ground. So now if you go and do a gig in a comedy club or a theatre with people who not only want to see comedy but may on occasion specifically want to see you,

you're like, this is easy. I've performed to people who absolutely despise you. me and I've come through you know the system absolutely works like everything that happens to me now 10 12 years into my career in comedy I've been prepared for by years of shouting

at strangers in rooms above pubs extraordinary do you include what don't you include in your stand-up I mean other areas where you don't go but I know you do take it out of race don't you in your yeah I don't think there's an area that I would rule out going into and certainly in terms of going

and watching comedy shows down the years I've seen people cover a variety of different subjects and some of them, you know, really kind of not the traditional comedy subjects. I mean, it's really inspiring to watch a comedian like, say, for example, Hannah Gadsby or Bridget Christie, go into some potentially uncomfortable and tricky areas and somehow navigate that in a way that makes the audience laugh even as they might be feeling uncomfortable as the comedian starts to talk about a particular subject. What if people feel a little more awkward laughing at that sort of thing now than they did maybe 20 years? years ago. I don't know.

It's tricky, isn't it? Because there is this kind of prevailing wisdom that somehow people are more easily offended than they've ever been. But I mean, that's certainly not something that's reflected in the comedy that I'm seeing. Like coming straight from Edinburgh and seeing, you know, in a month where I've really seen lots of female comedians tackle the kind of Me Too issues and the issues surrounding that particular subject in a really frank and funny way, it doesn't feel like people were offended. by it. I watched a lot of really

brilliant shows by comedies like Lazy Susan and Rose Matt Faye. Really tackle a lot of these contentious subjects head on. I think maybe what people are not up for anymore. But I think that this has been true since the early 80s. What people don't necessarily want to hear is comedy that

comes from a perspective of prejudice or the kind of comedy that as much as comedy integrated my family there was a lot of comedy in the early 70s on television. That was specifically designed to alienate us and comedy that targeted us and made us feel uncomfortable

that I think comedy audiences have grown out of that now I think there's not half hot mum and exactly I think there's not there's not really the same space for that and it's not that you know that kind of stuff is banned or frowned upon it's just people don't think it's funny anymore you know and I think sometimes people talk about the idea that there's a particularly kind of sensorious atmosphere in comedy clubs and there's no censorship you can get up and say whatever you want but it's true democracy If the audience don't laugh, it's not funny.

You know, that's the reality of it. What happens if they don't laugh? I mean, I'm sure they laugh at you all the time, niche. But when they don't. There must have been occasions when they haven't. Oh, when they don't. What do you do? It is absolutely excruciating.

I have had, you know, some incredibly awkward evenings. The thing, you feel really bad because you can see the whites of their eyes and you can see into someone's face as you think, I've really spoiled your night out. Do you know what I mean? Like, there's no other job that you do where you could look into someone's face and go, I've ruined your day.

You know what I mean? Like, you don't have that kind of, you don't have that same level of, like... But it's the same joke that you cracked the night before... Sometimes it's not work. No, isn't that odd? It's absolutely fascinating. It just means that it's never boring.

I don't see this job, and I see people who've been doing it 25, 30, 40 years. Yes. And they are still scratching their heads over why something that worked yesterday. didn't work tonight. And that's the kind of exciting challenge of it. Is it sometimes of because you just haven't delivered it very well? Sometimes it's because you haven't delivered it well. Sometimes it's because you put a word

slightly in the wrong place. It's funny how it's such a kind of fine-tuned machine sometimes. If you drop a word in the wrong place or if you kind of were too loud in one bit and then not loud enough in another bit, there's such sort of minor dynamics going on that changed the entire thing. And sometimes it's just because they were weird. That almost is the most, that Almost is the most difficult thing where you go, I did that exactly right. Yes. And the audience still didn't go for it.

And then you just have to go, well, fair enough. I've stood up at dinner sometimes knowing it's going to be a tough one. There's something about a feel for a place, isn't there? You can, when you walk on, you just somehow know. Well, you've done plenty of live performance yourself. You know what happens, but you just walk in and you just go, oof. Yeah, and it's the first failed choke. That just confirms it.

And that's a horrible feeling. You know you've got another. you've got 45 minutes or is still to go. There must be times where you, because I've certainly experienced this, but there must be times on stage where you're five minutes into something that's supposed to last a couple of hours

just thinking, what if I just say to them, listen, should we just pack up and go home? Should we just, is there some way that we can just cancel this? Well, it's like doing this interview. See, here's my clock. Yeah. Okay.

I'll get a little secret. My interviews on here, as I've touched the alarm on there now. My interviews start at five past one, okay? And they finish around about 20. to two. Right, okay. I don't look at that clock until I think it's 25 past because then I know I'm okay.

I just looked at it and look at that. It's 1340. It's 2040. You've been at all. Nish Kimart. It's been lovely to have had you here. It was an absolute honour. Thank you so much. That wasn't it great hearing that chat with Nish. He continues to be one of the most sought-after comedians on the circuit. I mentioned before the interview how many comedy stars we've been joined by

over the years, such as this interview from 2000 with Good Life actor Dane Penelope Keith. I used to love watching Gower about. Did you? Yes, I really did. It was the great thing in my business, the people that I find most rewarding and exciting to watch are the people make it look easy.

I think I was lucky enough to work with Eric Morecam and everyone used to think that he used to fool around. Every single thing was rehearsed. It was just breathtaking. Was it? Oh, wonderful. and Gower did you just make it, he just went out there and it seemed to happen. I know occasionally it didn't, but when he just seemed to bat because that was the thing to do.

It was a great flair and a suciance. I love that word. He didn't net terribly hard, David. If Eric Morgan was precise and concise and no, no, David rarely. Here's my captain, of course, at last year for a number of years. He was a reluctant practising. Yes, yes. but it, I just, I loved watching him.

I used to love watching John Snowbowl, and I loved watching Derek Underwood. It was interesting watching the guys yesterday who were all introduced, the eights. I know the two weren't here, it was ten, the greats. And seeing Underwood, and he was exactly the same, wasn't he? It's lovely when time stands still like that. Yes, but he hasn't changed, basically, at all.

And he was wonderful to watch. There was another person who made it look rather easy. You're telling a story about him, actually, when you earlier on? Yes, I was. I was doing a benefit or something down at Arundall. I went around with the blanket, I remember. And in my business, it's not good news when they throw money at you, but everyone, I went around, I think, with Willis and Colin Cowdery,

and I forget who else. And we were rather pleased they threw money at us. But I remember, I forget which team were visiting, but they'd just beaten. Oh, no, England had just beaten them soundly. And, of course, the press had said, yes. Well, of course, it's not the best team that ex-country has sent over and didum, didum, didum, and Underwood said rather

quietly, yes, but no one's actually said that we were rather good. The whole of that conversation is available to hear on BBC Sounds, part of our 40 from 40 series. Make sure you miss nothing by subscribing to Test Match special via the free app wherever you are in the world.

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