Test Match Special - #40from40: Paul Merton

Episode Date: April 30, 2020

Comedian and broadcaster Paul Merton joins Aggers for a rainy 'View from the Boundary' at the Oval in 2013.

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. Bring more gear, carry more passengers, face greater challenges. Welcome to the world of Defender, with seating up to eight, ample cargo space and legendary off-road capability. It's built to make the most of every adventure. Learn more at landrover.ca. BBC Sounds, music, radio, podcasts. Classic View from the Boundary Hello Jonathan Agnew here welcoming you to another classic view from the boundary

from Test Match Special. Today we're going back to late August 2013 and to the Oval. With England having already won the ashes, Alistair Cookside looking to make it a 4-0 series win. The first three days of the game had seen big centuries for Shane Watson and a certain Steve Smith,

as well as a test debut for England's Chris Wokes. Come the fourth day and, the Saturday the test was completely washed out as rain circled South London and refused to go away. That didn't stop our guest, however. Paul Merton is a writer, comedian, actor, radio host, travel presenter, and perhaps best known as one of the captains in the long-running series Have I Got News for You? He's also a passionate cricket fan and hot-footed it across London when he heard he might be needed on air rather sooner than he expected. I was at home at about five past 12, I've expected to be interviewed at half-past-one today.

Yes. And I suddenly heard, I was listening to the coverage and the commentary and filling the time in. And you said, oh, lunch break is at 12.30. So I suddenly thought you might need me. So I jumped out of the bath and held a cab. The two are very close. And hence I'm here. So it's a wet bath water, rather than rainwater.

Well, it's a bit rainy as well. But it is sort of, yeah, it's quite heavy out there. You get the feeling looking at the outfield there that it's going to be tricky today, I think. It's not looking good. It's such a shame. And it's a great effort to come under these circumstances. Thank you. Well, no, it's a pleasure.

I mean, I've sort of, I didn't grow up, sort of playing cricket. I didn't, our school didn't have a cricket team or anything like that. And I kind of got into it through listening Test Match special initially in the days of John Arlott and Brian Johnson, all those people. I actually worked with Brian Johnson on a thing called Trivia Test Match. Do you remember that sort of Radio 4? I remember the name. It was a show based, meant to be based on the rules of cricket, but basically you scored four runs if you got an answer right, you know, and if you got an answer wrong, you were caught out.

I mean, he used to go to, Brian used to host that, and Sir Tim Rice and Willie Ruston with its team captains. Great cricket lovers, too. Yeah, absolutely. And you'd go to sort of like these various cricket grounds around the sort of south-east of London and Kent, you know, sort of not too far away. And I loved it. I'm actually, he called me murders at one point, which I understand is a great accolade. So I was very pleased with that. But it was one of the very early on meeting Willie Rushden, who was one of those people, like you mentioned I'm sorry, having a clue there. I said to him, Willie, you know, because he was part of all that sort of satire boom in the 1960s, a David Frost show and stuff. And I said, Willie, were the 60s as good as everybody cracked them up to it?

He said, well, yes, they were, but you have to remember how bloody horrible the 50s were. In comparison, I mean, just after the war, in context, you know, we were sort of, you know, we were down on our knees, weren't we? You know, the rationing went on and all that sort of stuff. So to meet something like Willie, you know, and to meet Brian Johnson. What do you remember about Brian in those days? Well, I mean, he was extremely posh man. I remember this story about, I think it was his grandmother. Or maybe, no, probably even his mother, I think.

She had, around about 1910, there was a sister. if you lived in the West End of London, where you could phone the theatre, which everyone was playing at the theatre, and the man at the other end of the phone would hold the receiver up to the stage so you could listen to a West End production in your own home. No, really? And it's in his autobiography. There's happened about 1910, and I thought, well, I'm not even that posh now, I could do that, you know?

But that was, I mean, his love of language, his love of comedians. He was a big fan of the crazy gang, wasn't it, and things like that. Extremely good interview, a very good broadcaster, and just his love of the game and his influence. infectious chuckle is on days like this is when you have to sort of remind yourself that actually, you know, when it's going, there's no other sport like it. Yeah, that's such a kind man. Do you feel like a warm individual? Oh, yes. That programme, for instance, especially since it was about cricket, he'd loved that.

Oh, it was, you know, his audit biographies, last one was called someone who was. That's right. Because he realised he probably wasn't going to be around for another 10 years or so. But, you're absolutely charming, man. And as you would, he was exactly as you would expect him to be. You know, he wasn't, there was no sort of, he wasn't putting on a performance, that was him, you know, his love of sort of schoolboy humor, his, you know, the famous thing with you, which you know, you still listen to. And it's one of the great classics of radio, is it like, you know, absolutely. Because it's the desperate professionalism trying to creep in sort of like we mustn't laugh. And of course it makes it even, even funny. It's like laughing in church or laughing somewhere inappropriate. We're meant to be professional people. And it's, you know, let's talk professionally. And it's. And it's.

bubbling away and it's like a little volcano and you know it's going to go. And it did. And it did because it has to. Yeah. Has it happened to you? Have you been corpsed badly? Have you been incapable? Well, you have to be careful when you're on stage, I think, because it's sort of, I mean,

we do a lot of improvisation, the stuff I do now, really. I always at a comedy store every Sunday doing the show. And if you're corpse on the stage, you're making each other laugh and the audience aren't in on it, then they sort of get a bit resentful. Yes. It's like, well, okay, you're enjoying yourself, but you have to communicate that to us. if they see the reason why you've loved, because somebody's just a something absolutely hilarious.

The afternoon, Henry came in a series at Edinburgh. One of the chats was doing a sort of suddenly did this funny walk. That was just hilarious in context. And we just, oh, we're laughing and think, though, concentrate you're on stage. It is true. And that sort of coaxing, if actually it's only funny to us too happening at the time and people are listening. Then it's, I know from other ones a bit.

Then it becomes embarrassing. It does. It's, sort of laughing at yourself and with yourself. Yes, I think it's the effort to show that, you're really battling it that sort of justifies it, you know, because in the end it's overwhelming. Brian's face that day, honestly. Yes, I'm sure you...

It was absolutely brilliant. Like you've taken a right hook from Mike Tyson. Is it the other end, though? We're in the boxes down there. Oh, is it at this ground? Well, they more or less sort of shut that comedy box down after that. Yes. That was the end of it. Never be bettered. No, no, no. So it was listening to the radio

that got you into cricket then? Yes. Yeah, I mean, I, you know, I sort of... I was listening yesterday to the conversation you were having with Stephen Frye about the contest between batten ball. very interesting that the game is 200 years old or whatever, and still that hasn't changed. I would listen to sort of, you know, when the coverage on the BBC in the very early days in the 60s was basically, you've got a camera at one end. And if half a fag stand in the middle of it, you ain't going to see the wicket.

It's sort of a challenge, doesn't it? You know, the umpire's called half a fag. I mean, you know, how can you not fall in love of a sport that has, you know, he was a big, long, right coat. And then you sort of, you realize, actually, the commentary on the radio is so much better in those days, because you couldn't see very much and there wasn't any replays whereas now you're still cundering up the imagery as you always did then

I mean one of my favourite shows Hancock's half hour doesn't date on the radio because sound recording was perfected 80 years ago so it doesn't sound any worse than it does now but you conjure up just the imagery of what's happening out there

and I think that's you know with Henry with the buses going down over there and stuff this is how I know cricket but there's certain definitions I don't understand I found this out only the other day and this makes cricket even more endearing to me. I said to somebody the other day,

now, Mid-off, I've got that, now silly mid-off. What is that? Like, like, and is that an acute angle or something? It said, no, no, no, it's because it's silly. It's close to the batsman. Yes. I'd never realise that. So it's a sport that incorporates the word silly into its rules and into its positions.

I mean, that's, I mean, you know, that's fantastic. And I always thought it was something like some acute angle off the hypotenuse or something. No, no, no, no, far too technical. No, not at all the way. Well, you'd like to have played. I mean, now you've got into it, and you've got into it, and you listen and you're watching, and you come to test matches, do you regret they had another chance to play.

Yeah, I do. I've only just started taking up golf. I mean, cricket's a game where you need other people to play with you, don't you? With football, you can at least kick a ball against the wall. Unless you're just bowling at a wicket drawn on a brick wall or something, there's not much you can do. So, I don't know, it just wasn't in our sort of family culture to play cricket much. The schools never did it. So it's just something I never worried about it or thought about.

it that much. But I think also the hardness of the ball the first time you faced that, when I was probably in my 30s, the first time I actually just held a bat. And you're going, and this is a slow bowler. And you realize that maybe that's a certain degree of courage is needed to take the game up in the first place, because the ball is hard. And if you're as a seven-year-old, you feel that hard ball, you think, oh, this isn't for me, or you think, oh, I can't wait to get some of this. So maybe it's a bit like the 11-plus it sorts out early on. I'll tell you, it does. And a lot of people who sit, where you're sitting now in this chat, will have been keen cricketers as kids

but they took a knock, they took a blow on their head or something, and that put them off and they never played again, which is desperately sad. Well, it's a hard sport, I mean, it is a very hard sport. I mean, you have, your guest talk about facing the West Indies bowling team in the 1980s, I mean, it's just frightening, it's coming from

six foot seven in height, and it, you know, no wonder Batsman sat had to get some kind of protection because, you know, certainly around the head gear and stuff, but the courage it needs to stand out there every time is like going into the ring with Mike Tyson at his peak or something. You know there's a danger you're going to get hurt. Absolutely. The difference

between success and failure is minuscule, is tiny. The poor bowler the other day that was suffering the slow bowler. Now, it's for old Kerrigan. Unfortunately, he's in the spotlight and there's things to remember because he kept bowling those balls. A batsman that's out of Nick goes for two and naught, and he's only in the crease for seven minutes. You can't, there's not much to dwell on.

You just think, oh, well, those are you doing. So you don't worry too much about that, whereas in his position, he can't do anything about it. He's from the middle of it. good way of putting it because most people we have in here are batsmen. They'll say to the bowler you've got all those chances to get it right I only get two chances and I'm out twice in the match but I'm with you on that

If a batsman's in bad form, really bad form He's away, he's gone and the next guy comes in and gets 100, nobody really thinks about it. You as a bowler get knocked for 28, get knocked for 30 Absolutely right. It's there to be replayed those are the shots, those are things You've got to come back again and the

fellow who hits you might be able to 120 by now And he's got all the confidence in the world because he's looking straight out, you say, I can hit you wherever I like. See, that's total logic. I'm with you. You should have been a top-foss bowler. Well, I think you probably need more than that, but... Well, to start.

All right, what time does it stop raining today? A warmer. Well, maybe it's a bad, because the bowler in that position is more, is an individual, that he's bowling for it. He's also bowling for his team, obviously, first of all, but he's got a bowl for himself. He's got a bowl for his position. Maybe that's a bit like being a stand-up comic when you're somebody on your own, you know?

A batsman is in a team of batsman. Yes. Bowlers are only, what, four or five players? as in a team, but everybody's expected the back, not everybody's expected to bowl. Correct. So, yeah, I mean, I can understand that. Your bowler's friendly. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So having not played,

but listened and gone into it then, when did you first start to go watching cricket? What are your early memories and games? You mentioned the West Indies. Did you see them, did you actually see them in the 18th? No, you know, it's sort of, I was somebody that, during the 1980s, I was trying to sort of get into show business. I didn't have a great deal of money. I lived in a bed sit. I sort of was going out

sort of getting 20 pounds a night here and there doing 20 minutes, you know. So, so the idea of going to a cricket match or something like that was beyond me, you know, it's sort of and I've missed out, and I realise I have missed out on that, but I've still got plenty of time to get into it now, I suppose, but yeah, it was, you know, the story,

when you go up to the Edinburgh Festival every August, and it's usually done, there's a test match being played, and it was England versus Australia, and we got out the car, and somebody turned the radio on, and both men's just got a wicket, and we get into the flat, get the keys, open up the flat, put the radio, and he's just got another wicket. That thing where you can come into the game,

and stay with the game, and then come away from it, again is, you know, because it's being played over the course of five days, six hours a day is extraordinary. So I don't feel I need to be at the game, you know, although when you see the view like this, I mean, this is astonishing, but I tend to sort of

dip in and out the whole time, but maybe I should go more. I'm thinking of going on holiday to Australia this year. It'd be a good time to go, wouldn't it? They're going to come. Well, I'll have to speak to the wife about it, but yeah. Well, you can bring her to? Yeah, she likes a bit of cricket. Yeah, absolutely. She liked the weather. She hates the English winter, you know. Well, you'd love that.

Well, Henry mentioned it the other day, so, you know, I don't think we're quite a house guest yet, but... Do the Australians understand your humour? Are you big in Australia? I think they've just been showing some of the travel shows there, so I'm aware of that. I played Australia, played Melbourne and Sydney for six weeks back in the 1980s doing stand-up, and they tended to get the same things, but at first you're unsure, you know, there's some mention some reference to the Salvation Army or something, and suddenly go, hang on, do you know what the Salvation Army is here, and you have to check things like that, you know,

But generally speak, it's the same. But if you made any jokes about New Zealanders, that was the funniest thing you could sell to an Australian audience. Easy knockoff. They're like he's going already at the back. It's like, you could have the funniest jokes on the world. If you suggested that New Zealand's had an unusual relationship with their livestock, that could be the funniest joke you've ever said.

Not original, maybe. No, they didn't care about that. They felt as if they'd have their monies worth. See, stand-up comedy must be, it must be terrifying, isn't it? And especially starting off, for your first one? Well, the first one was, I was very lucky here at the comedy store in London. I'd written this sketch about a policeman giving evidence in court. I'd rehearsed it.

I'd never got up on stage before. It was about four minutes long. It was during the time of the Brixton riots, so there was a lot of unrest in London and stuff. And I went on and I did this thing, and they just loved it. They loved it to the extent where I had to do it again. It was four and a half minutes long. And I walked all the way back from the car.

comedy store, which was then in the middle of Soho, to stratham, along, past the Oval here, no doubt, on my way here, on a cloud of absolute joy. That got me through every bad gig for the next 18 months afterwards. Just that one reaction. Oh, it was just, it was everything I'd wanted to do. Imagine you'd always wanted to be a cricketer and you walk out in, you know, the Oval or at Lords or something, and you get a hat trick or you score a century. It was like that, but instantly.

Yes. I thought, well... And you do float. Oh, you float. I mean, I knew that I didn't really know what I was doing, but I was. was lucky in what I'd written was good, but I didn't have a number four and a half minutes like that for a long, long time. But it was a very early indicator that, yes, you can do this.

Yes, which is important. Oh, because it gets you through all the bad ones, because nobody knows who you are, you come on, the microphone's not working, you're not very good. You know, there's all those factors that combine against you. Yes. Did you find out of somebody first, or did you literally, this was the first airing of this classic?

The great thing about the comedy store was that Don Ward, who opened this up, was democratised the whole of comedy because I wanted to be a stand-up comedy when Jeff Boycott, you know, at his age, wanted to be a batsman or you wanted to be a bowler. When I was seven or eight, that's what I wanted to do. But my options then, in the 1970s were Cambridge Footlights, red coat and a buttlint's holiday camp,

working man comic, working club comic. I mean, no natural areas for me. The comedy store opened up one night. You could go on stage, if you're any good, you could come back. And that's all, it was just, it didn't matter who you were, just get up and do it. And so that one factor at the comedy store in the number 19709 probably revolutionised the whole last 25 years of light entertainment in this country.

Well, I was going to ask you, not just you, but many others presumably began there. There were no comedy clubs in London. There was nothing. So where did you go? Where did you go if you want to play cricket? Where is the nearest net? Where is somebody that can bowl at you? You need to have, you know, they talk about sort of, you know, practice that be, you know,

the time you spend in the crease is very valuable in a test match. it's like anything value time you spend on stage is valuable even if they're booing you off next time remember why they booed you off I can't imagine that you must have witnessed some horrible ones of people the worst one I ever saw This could be cruel

Well it was first of all The audience were medical students Medical students for some reason are the worst behaved I think because maybe they're sort of like You know they're still young And they're facing matters of life and death And operations or whatever it is They drink and they go nuts

So first of it was medical students They were also in fancy dress, so they're not really in an audience at all, they're dressed in fancy dress. The venue was at the London Dungeon, where the people on stage could see waxworks of people being boiled in oil, somebody over here being hung, while they're saying, oh, and here's a funny thing, there's somebody dressed as Napoleon. I mean, it was just dreadful. And at the end, the promoter refused to pay them. I mean, you know, we got that sorted out. But that was, in terms of what could go wrong, that was pretty dreadful.

Every act lasted about three minutes. We timed on, I mean, that was, a gong went or something. Oh, you're meant to do 20 minutes here. There was no point. Let's stop watching. But the difference to that, though, I don't longer do the stand-up comedy. Now that I do is the improv thing, where there's five, the show that ends up.

Oh, it's great. There's five of us on stage, so you've got no jokes to prepare or anything. Nothing to worry about. You don't let you commentate. You can get ready for a commentary, but you can't practice phrases because you don't know what's going to be happening. So we have nothing to where there's no show. We don't care.

We go on. The show evolves while we're there, and as soon as it stops, it's disappeared. So we don't have any pre-show nerves. We don't, because there's no show. It doesn't exist. But I thought they'd be even more nervous. There was no show. But there isn't anything.

What's to get nervous about? Well, the fact you haven't got anything. But what particular aspect of nothing? What bothers you? All of it. I mean, nothing. But there's nothing. Oh, well, okay, we start.

I'll say, okay, we're the comedy store players, or we are the pro chums. I have a me, Mr. Jonathan Agnew, and then we say, and then we start a scene. I say something to you. You say something back to me. Somebody else comes on and says something else. You start singing, somebody else starts dancing.

After 45 minutes, we have an interval to come back again. Henry will confirm all this is what we do. And it's sort of, I mean, okay, I'm saying this with the basis I haven't done this for 30 years. Right. But we're on stage. The provisor is you're improvising and it has to be entertaining. There's no point in saying, well, it's not entertaining, but it's improvised.

But even that's pressure, though. You have to be funny. Well, yeah, but then perhaps, yeah, but then, I don't know. Perhaps you'll say that as somebody, if you could imagine yourself in that position, I mean, I wouldn't imagine myself opening the bowling for England because I wouldn't be able to do it. I don't know if I'd feel much pressure, I probably would actually because I wouldn't want to make a complete idiot of myself, but I would.

So I wouldn't take it that seriously. But with the improv, there is no, you know, the first game is you say you do a game where a film and theatre style or something. So we start a scene and we're perhaps a couple of plumbers in a house and somebody says freeze and somebody says carry it on in a Western style and you say something like, I ain't seen taps like these since a Jesse James gang or something like that. And off we go.

Up and running. I do the odd theatre thing, but I've got sheets of paper. Oh yes, that's stuff you to worry about. I've got... Is it? Yeah. But then you've got to have that because it's a different show. I wouldn't say that every show should just do what we do.

But I don't know what I'm going to be doing in ten minutes' time. I might be singing. I might be being a snake. I might be Boris Johnson and Eamon Holmes. I could be anything. And it always works for you. You've never had a moment. of sort of frozen terror.

Oh, my God, I really don't know what I'm going to do. I'm blank. Not frozen terror. You do have a moment where you don't think of something, but there's four or four or five of you. So there's all, you're never on your own. You're never on your own. It is a team game where you have individuals,

but you're never on your own. And so nobody's going to, I mean, there are rules. But once you know what the rules are, you can break them. A rule is to say, you agree an ad with somebody, for example. So I say, oh, doctor, thank goodness you're here. And you say, yes, I'm sorry, I'm late. Now, where's your mother? And I say, oh, she's upstairs.

So you've agreed you with a doctor, you've added the mother, and I said she's upstairs, I've added that. Now, equally you could do it, I could say, oh, Doctor, thank God, you're here, and you say, I'm not a doctor, I'm a plumber. All right, we've got to laugh, but, okay, what do we do now, then? Well, it's me waterworks, you better come and help and fix me, or something. So you can break the rules, but with the confidence of knowing that you're never going to put anybody in trouble. But you could, though, couldn't you could horribly stitch somebody up? Oh, yeah, that's why you work with people you like. Oh, you could do, but then the show would suffer.

Here's an interesting thing about audience psychology. We do a game called Foreign Lecturer where basically somebody talks gibberish. So we get something, we say, can we have a foreign country? Somebody might say, what particular aspect of life in Belgium? Somebody might say, keeping the trams cleaning antwerp. Okay. So, I have some expert who's going to talk to some subject, keeping the trams cleaning out, well, off you go, and he goes,

and he goes many days, and whereby I'm cleaning the trams. He does like this, so he's just talking rubbish. But at some point, if I might say something like, say something like that reminds me with a very funny joke the audience look at the foreigner and they think he's in trouble oh so he's not he's not in any trouble at all he has to go there's this horse walks into a bar he doesn't have the all he's doing is but if you say something like that they think oh you've put him in the spot but you haven't is your confidence unshakable now i go on and do something like that night

after night yeah i mean i with that show yes yes absolutely i So you've got total control over it. Oh, yes, absolutely. I mean, I did a show last year I toured with, which was a written show that had sort of magical effects in it, and had bits that had to be deliberately sort of rehearsed and done the same way every time. And that was terrifying before the first one in Marge.

I was really absolutely, because there was loads of stuff to worry about, what if that effect doesn't work, what if that joke doesn't work, what if that sketch doesn't get any better than it was last night. So you do have worries then, in fact. Doing that type of show, when you know what you're going to be doing it again. But with the improv, you say, Oh, that bit didn't quite work, but that's gone there. Yes, astonishing.

And it must be so... It's exhilarating. It must be exhausted after... No, no, not at all. No, it's... I mean, up in Edinburgh, we only do an hour, there's five of us, and off you go, you know. It's sort of... You enjoy it, with your mates, you're having a time of your life.

It's fantastic, exhilarating. I mean, we almost enjoy it as much as the audience do. Do you... What's extent of comedy do you find unacceptable? I mean, or do you not? I mean, you can be terribly personal, can't you? I mean, have I got news for you, can really be cutting? Is there a line for you?

And is it becoming increasingly difficult for comedians to find suitable topics almost? I mean, it seems to me that's sort of being constricted a lot. I think if you're at a comedy club and you go to see a comedy show, there's certain material you can hear there, which you wouldn't want to put on television, I think. And on having a good news for you, we don't tend to go for the ordinary person in the street, you know, somebody that's, you know, coming to the news for no, you know, reasons of their own, you know, are that somebody's been guilty of a crime

or victim of a crime or something. With the improv stuff that we do, we ask for suggestions from the audience and somebody will write something down and you read and you look at it and we can't do that. And it will be something, there will be a terrible story in the news which a child gets kidnapped or something and you just can't do it.

So, I mean, for me, there are boundaries, yes, of course, but I don't want to say you can't laugh about anything because humor is so important to us, you know, We need to sort of, particularly when times are bad, it's one of the things that keeps us alive and keeps us vibrant, I think, and keeps as optimistic is the fact that we can laugh about things. And, you know, when I, you know, even sort of when I didn't have any money, lived in bed sits and stuff, that was my choice.

And I was, you know, still going down the pub and for three pints of beer and have a great time on those three pints of beer, you know. So it's, it's, humor is, I wouldn't say you can't make jokes about anything because then you're sort of, if you make a joke and somebody laughs, it's a joke. If somebody else hates it, then to them it's not a joke. Yes. Are politicians just a completely fair game, do you think? I mean, every aspect you've been personalized.

They are the weirdest people you've ever met in your life. I don't know if you ever met them, but they are so strange. They have no idea how the rest of the world sees them. They don't care. You really think they don't care? Are they so thick-skinned? Totally. I mean, some of them are just sort of like, you think,

well, if you were walking down the street, you would draw attention to yourself just by the way you are. Michael Fabricant was on Havoc News for you. I mean, I thought he was a puppet. I mean, it was just extraordinary. I mean, trouble is, he's surrounded by admirers he says something that's funny or he thinks is funny and they all laugh

oh yeah Michael he's always funny what a waggy is and then you hear him say it and it's like what's that you know and he just laughs and people are sort of like just looking at him and he sort of brushes it off but politicians are I think you probably need to have that one less layer of skin to be a politician in the first place

or a desire to believe that you are born to do it you know but if politicians are being ridiculed all the time not all the time but you know your sort of program does ridicule politicians, does that actually sort of generalise the sort of lack of respect for politicians in a way? Does it encourage that feeling that politicians aren't... Well, I think it's the way politicians' behaviour encourages a lack of respect for politicians.

I think if they can get hold of something that's funny and be seen in a humorous way, that can be a very powerful political weapon because people don't always question you too closely if you're seen as a jolly person. So I think Havogun News for you has certainly been used in that way in the past. But just, I wanted to just go completely for another tangent, just talking about a closed world for a moment. I heard this quote on Test Match Special the other week. I'm not

sure which one of you said this, but I thought this would be one of the quotes of the year. You were talking about what was happening out in the middle. You said, somebody said if a Martian landed on the planet Earth right now, he'd be baffled by somebody's field placings. How'd you think that sounds to the outside world? I don't know.

I suspect it was me that said it, but I mean, I think it was me. I think I've had a few Martians landing. What's wrong with Well, you're assuming that a Martian will have a basic knowledge of cricket to question the field places. That's what's wrong with it. Well, there you go ripping my work apart. I said it's one of the great quotes. I said it's one of the great quotes. I think it's fantastic.

Well, I'm quite offended. No, don't be offended, Jonathan. Don't be offended. I'm teet you. You are, that's marvellous. I'm glad that you wrote it down. Yeah, I did I write down some other things in case we run out of stuff to save, but... I hadn't run out yet. No, of course, no. I should move on to Lauren Hardy, because I love Lauren Hardy. Did you? Yes. Silly sort of slapstick humour. I was more of a Lauren Hardy with sound.

Yes. Whereas you would be a silent, Lauren Hardy band. The Lollon Hardy silent films are better than the early sound films, and they're much quicker. There's more of a zip to them. The editing's much quicker. When sound first came in, you had to sort of stand there and talk quite slowly. But then, of course, as they develop, the sound films, it got great. Children love Lollon Hardy because they love Lollon Hardy, they love adults being silly. because it upsets their normal view of the world.

Adults are sort of like, okay, that's enough of that, or would you like a bit of this? No time to go to bed. But they can't see the paint of wall they're getting covered themselves in paint. So this is the thing that I think children particularly find very... Nice to love it. Oh, yeah.

They're great. Is it a shocking mission to say, look, I've got the set. I mean, I have got the other... No, it's brilliant. I mean, they are... The best of their stuff is as good as anything. There's a film where there's called Big Business where they're trying to sell Christmas trees.

Oh, yes. I mean, the editing of that is just as good as anything think you would see in cinema of the time. We have a final thing where they have destroyed the man's house because he wouldn't buy a Christmas tree. He's destroyed their car. Everybody's standing around crying.

The car's collapsing. The car's collapsed. The crowd would have crying. We cut to a policeman that's crying. We cut to Stan and Ollie cry. And every single cut is a huge laugh when you show it to a live audience. It's a massive laugh still.

It's as beautiful as watching a Swiss clock. You know, the timing, this was edited in 1928. Every single joke that's meant to be there. is there, one, two, three in a row. Fantastic. I love the ones. They're always inevitable

when poor old Stan inevitably would leave the gas on in the kitchen. Yes. And Ollie, of course, for whatever reason, would strike a match and go striding in and there would be the explosion and some sort of Ollie flew across a room. I mean, goodness so is it. I mean, how they did stunts like that in those things. Oh, there was no health and safety.

So, you know, you tend to... My favourite line in any one of their films is a film called Going By, where they have to get out of town they've sent this criminal to prison and they've got to get out of town in case he escapes. And so it's one of those old-fashioned candlestick phones

where stands holding on to receive the main bit and hands the speaking bit to Ollie. But instead of handing him to speaking bit at the phone, he hands him a tin of carnation milk which also happens to have in his hand. Ollie takes the tin of carnation milk, pours it up to his head, looks at us as the milk

runs down his cheek, as you can see him thinking, this is carnation milk. He says, just stabs himself for a moment, speaks back into the receiver, says, pardon me, my ear is full of milk. In a polite, southern, gentlemanly way. As if, of course, I went,

yes, of course, it happens to me all the time. Pardon me, my ear is full of milk. Did you approve of the colourisation of some of that? No, dreadful. Yeah, it never looked quite right, did it? Way out west was a wonderful film. I used to love that. It's lit for black and white,

so it's not lit for colour. So if the film had been, And that's why it's as nonsense as sort of... Yeah, I mean, it's lit for sort of enhancing, making sure you can see the face is black and white. There's no subtlety going on. Colour doesn't add anything to it at all, apart from making it look strange, you know. In terms of talent, because they could do everything, couldn't they?

The community sang, the danced, all of that. I mean, where would you rank them in the pantheon, as it were? Oh, well, I mean, I think they're the most enduring double act that the cinema has ever seen. I mean, they're sort of this cinema equivalent of Morecam and Wise, really. you can't imagine there's ever going to be a better pair in. They were Stan Lowell's story. It's quite intriguing, really.

He came over... He's English, wasn't he? Yeah, he went over to America with Chaplin, Charlie Chaplin in 1913, when they were both with the Fred Carno troop. In fact, Fred Carno's officers were just around the corner from here, I think. Just had even Kennington over the back there somewhere. What's a great name? Fred Carno, yeah, he was a real man.

I thought he would forget that probably. Well, yes, I mean, it was during the First World War. One of the things was Fred Carno's army and stuff when, you know, things weren't going right. And so Stan and Charlie go over to America in 1913 And Stan is Charlie's understudy And so Charlie's doing this drunk act Which he's got very famous for And Stan's basically, the two of them roomed together in 1913

Trying to cook kippers on an open fire About the landlady finding out And all this sort of thing Within a year of that Charlie Chaplin is the most famous man in the world He goes into films The popularity of films Burgeon all over the place

The Nickelodeons in America If you were foreign you didn't understand the language of the country you're in, it didn't matter. You could go to the cinema and watch these moving pictures of cowboys and westerns and... It must have been fascinating people, they're incredible. And so from 1913, Stan watched Charlie become the biggest star in the world. He was making

little solo films himself, Stan Long, with no degree of great success, teamed up with Oliver Hardy in 1997 and bang, became as big as chaplain, it was as huge as Charlie, you know. What's it like the silent aspect that stands out for you then? Why are you particularly fond of that? If it's done well, if it's the best of the silent films, it's like the big business thing with the Lola Hardy thing. You've just seen visuals, there's nothing to interrupt the laugh. In some of the early Marks Brothers films, you miss what Groucho has said because there's a laugh from the audience. You can't, and also because, a bit like radio, not supplying the pictures, you have to concentrate a bit more. You have to bring something to the medium. You have to bring something to silent film. If you look away from the screen, it's gone. It doesn't exist. You know, you've got your live music playing, but if you're not looking at it, there for that moment it's gone. And that attention is rewarded when people just see the

how good thing. I mean, we did a gig in Blackpool a couple of weeks ago, show safety last, this one with Harold Lloyd's hanging off a clock. I mean, the audience, the last half hour of it, they scream, they go wild. At one point a mouse runs up his trouser leg, he's dancing on the ledge. The audience is screaming, you know, it really grabs them in a way that a modern film doesn't. Remarkable. You know, because it's an involvement. Of course, there's live people playing instruments as well. You feel as if there's a bit of a concert going on. How important is that a compliment?

Oh, totally. Is it written to match? The guys I work with improvise it, but you can get, I mean, back in the 1920s, say, Douglas Fairbanks film, The Black Pirate, released in Technicolor, Lester Square Odium would have had a 60-piece orchestra playing. Really?

To accompany that, yeah, absolutely. In fact, when sound film first came in, it wasn't to promote talkies, it was the idea that at your local cinema, you could see John Barrymore in Don Juan with an orchestral soundtrack and you can hear it as you might have heard it at Carnegie Hall. So it wasn't initially thinking about speech at all,

it was just thinking about getting the musical soundtrack to be more democratic, I suppose. Yeah. I was amazing that someone who's made his life out of being very quick-witted, verbal should have such a fascination of something which there is another. A funny visual joke stays with you forever. I saw one once. It happened completely by accident

and it was just something that happened to be in the right place. at the right time I was about 10 years old walking around the back of this sort of towel block. There's this real gust of wind right in front of me. Across my vision, I see a man's Trilby hat doing somersaults of the wind at 20 miles an hour. Followed quickly by a cheap ginger wig, also turning somersaults, followed by a little further behind by a man with a big red face, no hat, bald-headed man, running after the other two. In a space of seven seconds, that passed my vision.

I was, you know, that was 45 years ago. I've never forgotten that. I don't suppose I ever will I still laugh at Lauren Harley They are fantastic They're good They're good Forever Buster Keaton

Charlie Chaplin Who do you particularly prefer Chaplin's the one really He's the one that sort of I don't know what the equivalent would be in cricket But when Charlie started Maybe Bradman I mean he just revolutionised what people could do

Within two years of Charlie making his first film Which basically the first film Is just people kicking each other you know, pies and just throwing, falling over and stuff. Charlie made a film called The Tramp where he gets hurt in love and he gets jilted in love and he walks away from the camera and people felt something for that figure.

That was revolutionary in 1915 that those black and white silhouettes on the wall could make you feel something. You expected that in music, you expected that in theatre or opera, but cinema, which wasn't even called cinema, it was like a sheet hanging on the wall. That could move you.

That could do something. And Chaplin showed, I mean, other people have tried it in drama, but he showed you combine that and comedy together. And when you care about the person on screen, then the richer experiences to be had. Yeah. And is that why it's so powerful? Because it was new.

I mean, is that why it was... In the 10 years, I mean, it's like sort of looking at sort of what the Beatles did in the five or six years they were recording. You can't believe they started off with Love Me Do and ended up with a day in the life. But they did. It was the same with Chaplin and his contemporaries. What passed for a very entertaining fair in 1914?

three years later looked banal and ridiculous no plot line no motivation all the people look the same the camera doesn't move you know so it was so by the time charlie made the gold rush in 1925 and keaton made the general these were classic films of cinema which still work today they are amongst the early greats of cinema and that achievement in the space of ten years is rather extraordinary yeah it's commonly today as as as powerful and as long living as that is think? It's... It's anything that you've done? You know, you're talking about, oh, no, Paul Merton, you know.

Well, you know, I don't think so, no. I mean, it's sort of the havoc at news for you think, by its very nature, it's sort of, you know, you think, well, it's topical, so it's dead and buried. But funny enough, there is a certain, certain fun to be had at watching it five years old and think, oh, we were worried about that then or whatever. But, no, I think that by its very nature, topicality has it sort of inbuilt sort of... It's shelf life. Yeah, I think so, you know.

But the fact that I'm doing comedy, the fact I'm doing that, the comedy store live. I do Just a Minute with Henry. Henry's on Just a Minute on Monday. I'm not going to talk about that in a moment. He was actually very, very good. Don't tell him that. No, the thing is you entered into the spirit of it, and the spirit of it is to have fun.

And, no, in terms of, if you're a raconteur, which Henry is, hesitation, repetition, deviation, all part of your armory. Emphasis is repetition when you want to make a point, but none of that helps in just a minute, as you will hear. Well, we'll find that at some point. The travel stuff that you've done. And India, in particular, always interests us. Oh, India, yes, what a place.

We love the colour. And for you, you know, somebody who loves cricket too. Yeah, well, I mean, that was the thing, you know, down the side of a hotel is a little alleyway, and there'll be two people playing, four people playing cricket with sort of like a stick and something, you know. And the intent, I think I was, when I was there, the Indian team had just to come back from Australia,

having won their first ever series in Australia. And for two weeks, the gods had come down from heaven, you know, the adulation, you know, the adulation, 10 Dorka said something yesterday What's your reaction to what he said yesterday Or my reaction is this Okay What was your reaction to that

And I kept it going for two weeks For two weeks You know it was just But then the other side of that I imagine Can be quite grim Because if you're if you elevate your sportsman to that height Yes Where what happens then when they turn out to be less than superhuman

You know You know the downside of it must be pretty intense as well Yeah Well you already wrapped up with it The whole cricket business of it Do you really find yourself caught up in it Totally, yes. I mean, we played, one of the sequences we did was a guy that sort of runs a team for blind cricketers, and they, you know, they, I mean, that is an amazing skill, how you can sort of tune your ears into hearing which way a ball is coming towards you. Unbelievable, isn't it? It is extraordinary, you know, how anybody manages to do that, but they can. And it's just the total intensity, you know, I think I've, you were talking on here, but this program a few weeks ago, about Tim Dorka can only drive around India sort of the middle of the night or something, you know.

yes um so but that's it grips them like you know like nothing else i mean somebody said it was the third biggest religion or something in india i mean it is intense i i i i i i don't know it worries me slightly when somebody likes something that much but there we are you know how did you find something i mean i haven't seen if i was that travel program but lots of travel programs have been done about india what was different about yours what did you we avoided we didn't go to the taj mahal oh well done we decided we people People knew what that looked like. Yes.

It was a bit like when we went to China. Do we want to go to the Great Wall of China? There was an option on this particular day. We decided months before we went. But you can either go to the Great Wall of China or you can meet this man who makes robots. So obviously there's no, you know, we went to meet the man who made robots. In India... Was he interesting?

Oh, he was fantastic. He was fantastic. At first the robots are like no more than that teacup like that. You see that. Oh, that's nice, whatever. And then the next thing you see is him being pulled along in his own personal chariot by a 10-foot high walking robot. Promise you. Woom, walking like this. He's wife, she's like, you know, she's just shaking her head. He's got no, he's got no train in the toy. He's completely taught himself this guy.

And he makes his most amazing, useless robots. I mean, he made a walking table, right? A table with four legs that walk. Now, what do you think it happens to the service of a table that's walking? Do you think it keeps rock steady or do you think it sort of goes up and down like that? What extraordinary thing? You know, who wants a walking table? He can press a button, and a table walks towards you, spilling all its contents. So there's a hopeless invention, really? Totally hopeless.

Totally hopeless. And this man lives in the middle of nowhere. He doesn't need a robot. I mean, it's not like he's got to get into town or something. And all the neighbours walking by, he just take no nose. He just all looked the other way. And so I'm talking to his wife through translator, you know, and she's saying, well, you know, I said, how'd you get on with this to your husband's hobby?

He says, well, last year he burnt the kitchen down. And I said, okay, no more. No more, no more robots. And then he gets very sad. And for three months he doesn't eat. And then I say, okay, you can make robots. And then he is happy again. And so he just sulked until he was allowed to make robots again.

What parts is he using? I don't know where he gets here from me. It's in the middle of nowhere. I mean, it's like reed beds. There's like some rude huts around. I mean, I don't know unless there was a factory churning this stuff out around the corner. But I don't know, scrap or something, and he just finds something. Or that'll make a good 12-foot robot or something.

I don't know. Or nail that to that or whatever. weld this I mean it explained to me the guy's an absolute genius and if he'd had any sort of training at all

he'd probably be one of the world's top engineers but as it is he's making walking tables building missiles or yeah when you come back from these places

traveling like that you always plan get back here you're a Brit at heart they're very hard work they're hard work to do I am yeah I suppose I'm a Brit at heart

they are hard work I mean the particularly India and China are two of the toughest places to film If any experience of driving around in India, you'll know the roads are absolutely dreadful there. Yes, indeed. They're quite intense, you know.

So it's sort of... It's quite frightening, actually. Oh, yeah. I mean, driving at night was something that we only did once. It wasn't great. And the statistic is, you know, you travel least on a public road in India. You get killed anywhere in the world. You know, you only go a few miles in India or a few thousand miles or something.

So it's the intensity of the job. You're glad to get back. You bond well with the crew. because those are the guys really are you going to say you're going to make the program look good. The cameraman that gets up a half past two in the morning to get the sunrise from the top of the hotel is the guy that's got you that shot where people go, oh that looks nice

so you have to remember that those are the guys who are actually putting the stuff together that makes you look good in what you're doing. Sunrise over the Taj Mahal. Any travel program has to have it. I think in the end we bought a tea towel and we held that up and people could see that it was the Taj Mahal. Actually my wife wouldn't go, she hasn't been doing it before

and I booked the Taj Mahal last time. She said I'm not going. I don't need to go and do that on. going to see tigers actually instead. Well, yes. I mean, there is... Yeah, he's going to see the tigers. They're likely to disappear before the Taj Mahal, I think, the current rate of survival. We found some too, which is great.

Now, I mentioned, of course, that Paul was a regular on just a minute. This week, he has been joined by a new panelist. And Henry, we'll be back with you to begin, and the subject is being a James Bond baddie. 60 seconds starting now. I first became a James Bond Badi in 1961 with the publication by Ian Fleming of Thunderball. Ian and my father had been friends of a sort at school. My father was three years older than him.

Although Fleming always liked to take the names of people he didn't get on with at school for his baddies, that hints suggest that my father, in fact, wasn't as great a friend as all that. I was going to buzz on Fleming, so, and you stopped me with your hand. Foul play. I think that's very sad. My hand slipped, and I withdraw my challenge, because I would like to hear about Ian Fleming. Henry, she's withdrawn her challenge.

You've got time to take another breath and carry on with being a James Bombaddy. 36 seconds are starting now. My father and Ian Fleming may not have been the great... Well, keep going, keep going. My father and Ian Fleming may not have been the greatest of friends. I've got a suggestion. Can we call this round my father in Ian Fleming?

Let's see back. It's still born every minute, isn't that? Give Paul a bonus point for a suggestion. Right, so the subject has now become my father and Ian Fleming. So my father and Ian Fleming has 32 seconds in re-starting now. They knew each other. Fairly well. Henry.

What's that fun? Well, it was a bit like my out of kitchen and table late at night which starts walking. Yes. I don't think we've ever done that before. We've changed the subject

halfway through. It was any way because Henry couldn't be done for repetition then of saying my father and Ian Fleming. No. It was a very difficult.

Exactly, because you must have told that story about your father at Neon Fleming a million times. Yes, indeed. But not under that sort of pressure and you couldn't get your minute done no I was repetition I was I was awful I thought I'd worked it out actually I really did do some sort of thinking about it but it just went to nothing and

and then of course the audience started laughing and so I realized I was absolutely comprehensively out the spot and it was only and then of course Paul did me completely at one stage when I I was nervous about pressing the buzzer and there was a thing I can't remember what the word what it was that when I thought I wonder if that is represented anyway he probably buzzer next order me and said no it wasn't me it was Henry had to buzzer that went off first but then I had to pick up the story and take it on something I knew absolutely

nothing about it was wonderful I really haven't enjoyed making a fool of myself so much for ages it's something you can get used to I'm not making it fool of yourself but actually there must be a technique to speak but it's but you know you will always make those mistakes it's like golf or something or cricket you know you can say

well I've studied the technique but you'll always make a mistake there'll always be an error there'll always be something and that's the fun of it if you didn't make those there was that wouldn't be the show. And that's what was so funny about Henry doing it. I think the audience immediately identified is say, if I was doing it, I'd be doing it like that. And that's what they find amusing about it.

Did you get the home run, Henry? What was so incredible was Sue Perkins, who did two home runs, didn't she? Which apparently is the first time that's ever happened. In the same program, first time that the same person has done it twice, she just has the gift for it. She can just talk and not. And Stephen Frye is the other one that's...

Put it many times on that. Yes, I mean, you can... If he's got the subject of the ocean, He always talked about the ocean, the briny surface, the C, the H2O volume of... He'll say everything but ocean, you know. We find a brilliant way of describing that. But that's the... But even the best players will always slip up somewhere. You know, they'll suddenly say BBC and get buzz for repetition of B or something, you know.

It's one of the great shows, though. It is. Very, very simple to understand. Kids love it. That's when I first got into it when I was at age, about 10. It's, you know, it's very easy and yet capable of endless variation. depends on who's played i mean henry's played it the way where he you know he sort of he just went for it and enjoyed it and and uh you got a point that sounds like henry though

but you know but one i mean sue sue and um and paul were like mr mrs bradman i mean if you see what i mean in in cricketing terms i mean he gets absolutely nothing wrong and and you when he does he's only doing it to be mischievous yes and and do you feel really nervous doing it right that's your comfort i was a bit to start with course i was i thought goodness i I don't think, I went in there thinking, goodness, yes, this may not be too difficult. And then I suddenly realized we were all sitting in the sort of caravan, the hospitality as the green room, whatever we like to call it, drinking cups of coffee. And I thought, oh, goodness, I'm not sure about this.

And then I got onto the stage, and actually, I was slightly unnered because Darrow and Nicholas had a way of introducing me as Henry Blowfield. Yes, I thought, I wonder where he's coming on. You know, I look around. Henry Blowfield. Yes, that was right. It's not easy. But dear old Nicholas, I mean, that was he, he?

Amazing. He's now admitting to 90, because, yes, he's 90 in October, and he's having a big bash. Brilliant. He's a big cricket man. He's a huge man. He's a huge man. He's a huge man. He's a huge man.

Yes, absolutely. I mean, he's of an age now. When I first started doing the program, he was 65. And I, you know, he's strength of mind, his wits, you know, his judgment of the program. It's wonderful. It's, it's, his voice sounds as strong as ever, you know. I mean, it's, it's, it's my favourite show that I do. Anything I do in the show business, my favourite job.

Oh, I just love it. When I used to live in the bed sit, I talked about it before, I used to record just a minute on the radio and play back the tapes and things, and the fact that I'm in it and involved in it still is just an absolute joy. I just can't believe my love. The other lovely thing about Nicholas is his sartorial elegance hasn't dimmed either.

Stripy jacket. Oh, he had a blue one, actually, didn't he? Then he had, I saw him walking around in the pleasant courtyard and a lovely red one. Yes, yes. He doesn't know, you mustn't tease him about his jackets as I found out. He takes him seriously. He does. You can't say there's a Ford Quartina with a car cover missing somewhere.

You know, you can't do any of that. No, he always looks fantastic. I'm sure he's probably listening to this. So hello, Nicholas. Well, no doubt Nicholas was at home listening in a huge cricket fan of one of the game's great friends. Nicholas died early in 2020 at the age of 96, but was a regular test matches all his life. It was also a view from The Boundary, speaking to us back in 2007. I'd tell you one amazing distinction I have. Can I boast about it?

Please. I bowled Dennis Lilly out. Did you? Yes. Authentically? Authentically. He was ready for it? No, he wasn't expecting it. It was one of the Lawrence Tavner's charity games. It was at Stockett's Manor, and we were playing a team, got together by Kestner, because

the man who was Kossett, who was an Australian, he had great mate was. Dennis Lilly, so he was in his team, and we had this tabernous team. I was captaining the tabernet team for that time, and we were getting them out. In a charity game like that with the celebrities, it's almost traditional, having taken our professional bowlers off, John Price was there, bowling and Fred Rumsey, and they'd had their little spell. Then you put each celebrity on for two overs, so the public see them. They get knocked about a bit, and if they get knocked too much, you bring back the pros.

And this is how you organise a charity cricket match. And so I remember, my old mate, Naden Smith, he said, Can necklace, you haven't done your two overs. And I was being rather modest. I was captain, I can't suddenly put myself on. No, I don't know, so I held back. And I thought, well, Omer, when they're getting out, it's almost end of the sequence. I better go on.

So put myself on. I didn't actually recognize it was Dennis Lilly at the other end. Now, what I say is that I'm not a bowler. I used to be a wiki-keeper, actually, but I can hit the ball occasionally. But I do bow one good ball a season. Right. And that one good ball happened to go. then to Dennis Niddy.

Poor old Dennis got it, did he? And he got it. And he was out. I mean, and of course, when a celebrity gets out at top pro, the cheer was immensely. I wanted to retire from the game then then. I mean, this was it. Dennis must have sledge you, presumably, did he? He must have...

No, but the awful thing was, the next man who came in was his friend who was running the team and given us 5,000 pounds, you know, towards the charity. And I thought, unfortunately, bowled another good ball in that older and got him out. Now in these charity games We should have said no ball, no ball And of course then I was in the doghouse I bowled out the man who'd given that charity all this money You don't do that sort of thing But the payoff is that when I went into bat

Who was bowling? Dennis Lilly And the crowd was sort of thing Oh we're going to see something now That's the revenge But Dennis was a great sport Recognise it was a charity game He put a couple

And they can do that a pro They can put it on the spot and make it look like a good ball, but it isn't. It's something you can get your back behind. And I got one or two runs off him. And then as he walked back, there was something about his shoulders, and I thought, I'm not going to see this next ball, am I?

And I didn't. Look out on social media for details of more upcoming classic view from the Boundary episodes and subscribe to the TMS podcast on BBC Sounds. Alan Shearer and Ian Wright are in my kitchen. What's going on here? The all-new Match of the Day Top Ten podcast, answering a huge football question every week.

This has not been easy, hasn't it? Like the Top Ten Premier League strikers. Personally, I think it's really hard to have Shearer anywhere near the top ten. The Match of the Day Top Ten podcast. Only available on BBC Sounds.