Test Match Special - #40from40: Piers Morgan

Episode Date: July 16, 2020

TV star and former newspaper editor Piers Morgan gives a fascinating interview during a Test match at Old Trafford in 2007.

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Boundary on BBC Sounds. Hello, this is Jonathan Agney with the Test Match special podcast on BBC Sounds. We're going through the archive of our favourite view from the boundary interviews from the last 40 years, hearing from actors, musicians, politicians and all sorts of others who've joined us on the programme to discuss their lives and their love of cricket. Today, we're rewining to June 2007 and the test between England and West Indies at Old Trafford. Fresh from a disastrous tour to Australia in the winter.

Michael Vaughnside were on their way to a thrilling 60-run win, aided by young centurion Alistair, as well as Monty Panasar, who took 10 wickets in the match. In the commentary box, we were joined by one of the more controversial figures in British life, tabloid editor, talent judge, and now TV host, Pierce Morgan. At 28, Morgan became the youngest editor of the news of the world before moving to the Daily Mirror, but was famously sacked in 2004 over the authenticity of photos relating to the war in Iraq. He's been described as ambitious and supremely self-confident

and joined Simon Mann for what was at times a rather spiky chat. Since the age of about five have lived cricket, played it, watched it religiously and, you know, to be honest, to be sitting here at Old Trafford in the middle of a test match

doing this with you is a dream come true, actually. Who did you play for? I still play for a village called Newark in the East Sussex League down near Brighton. And I'm in pretty hot water today because we've got a big game today and they're not impressed and I'm fobbing off to be tarting myself around the airways so I'm not very popular down in my village.

How often do you play? Oh, most weeks, yeah. I mean, obviously this American venture that I'm on has hammered my cricket schedule. But when I'm in England, I play every week. What do you do? Well, what I'd like to think I'd do and what my colleagues would say are two different things. I bat mainly. I used to be a fast bowler, then as age took over and wine women and song,

I dropped to a medium pacer, then to off spin, and now I bowled leg spin, because it's the only way I can get any form of control. But I'm mainly a batsman and very, very poor slip fielder. Well, that happens as you get older, isn't it? It does, but I'm only 42. It's a bit worrying. So when did you first have an interesting creed? I mean, from the age of six or later? Yeah, I went to, I played at prep school, and then I remember,

very vivid I was talking about earlier actually with somebody about my first ever test match was at Lords in 1975 watching Lillian Thompson bowl at Dennis Amos and Davis Steele was playing and Tony Gregg yeah it was and it was amazing watching this grey-haired old guy come out taking on the two fastest bowlers in the world

and you know I really just loved the sport from that day on and I've got three sons now myself they're cricket mad which is great but I was sitting downstairs with this guy who turned to be Steve Harmison's dad in a box downstairs and I was thinking what's it like for you at the moment? I said it's bad enough for me when one of my sons is going through a rough patch

but to have a son who's sort of centre stage and having a difficult time must be really hard. He said it was very difficult. Do your sons play? Yeah, yeah they older boys are left arm, medium fast Wazimack Graham. They're all left-handers? No no no, no. Older one.

The older one. He's nearly 14 Spencer. My middle son, Stanley is a leg spin bowler and opening bat. And the young one, the terror, he's six and a half, Bertie. He bowls flat out fast. So we renamed him Bert Lee. They're all fanatics, yeah, so I'm grooming them avidly. I want one of them to play for England. I don't mind which one I told them. Obviously, this has caused a bit of competition between them. Well, that's a good way to create competition, isn't it? Well, exactly. I mean,

are they very talented or are they more talented? I mean, every dad thinks their son's the best player they've ever seen, obviously. But I'm, yeah, I think they've all got real natural eye for a ball. And because I'm so obsessed with cricket, then they have fortunately become equally obsessed. So, yeah, I'm very quietly optimistic, yeah. Are they more obsessed with cricket than anything else? Well, we're all Arsenal season ticket holders, too. So we'll start groaning.

They're not that bad a team. But football is secondary. I always say to them, look, guys, you've got to remember, if you're ever asked, would you rather go to watch Arsenal in the Champions League final or England at Lords? You must always say England at Lords. It's just more civilised. Even if you don't mean it.

Well, I don't want to be tested, put it that way. Are you a great watcher of cricket? Yeah, I love it, yeah. I took them to the World Cup in Antigua and go to the Laws Test. Every year, I go on the second day with my village friends who I've grown up with, and we get drunk and misbehave in one of the stands. And then the next day I go into Ian Bothan's box, which is always great fun, riotous, as you can imagine.

And I love it. I could watch every day of every test when we won the Ashes. A couple of years ago, we'll forget the one we lost. in the meantime, but the one we won. I was there for all four, the last four days of the Oval and greatest four-day sport I've ever seen, I think. You mentioned Ian Bothan there. The fact that you were editor of the mirror

and obviously a powerful position. Is that giving you access to the players? Yeah, I mean, I know a lot of the players. I know Michael Vaughn pretty well. K.P. competes him very well. Freddie Flintoff, I spent the day at the races with him last week. Rather, ironically, we went to the races.

We were at Lancashire, Sussex, which got rained off for the day, and the world's media were trying to get Freddy because he just announced his new leg injury. And so I helped squirrel him to safety, which was a rather bizarre position to find myself in, dragging Freddie Flintoff away from the world's media. But it kind of worked.

We then had a disastrous afternoon at the races. I think it ended in particularly spectacular fashion when we put a small ransom on a horse called Flashing Flusi, which came last, which I thought summed up our day, really. And it summed up his year. What's it like being a former editor of a national newspaper at such a relatively young age? I mentioned earlier that you became editor in the news of the world at 28,

which is incredibly young, isn't it? Well, that's the polite way of describing my career. It's like youngest editor, you know, for whatever it was, 50 years. Of course, there's another way of saying it of youngest editor ever sacked, full stop, which was not a career ambition I was hoping to achieve. But no, it's been, you know, I edited newspapers for 11 years, and I had the most fantastic time. And I wrote a book when I finished it, which was very cathartic.

And as I wrote, I remember thinking, I didn't have an angry or bitter or even frustrated bone in my body because I was lucky enough to have covered really some extraordinarily huge stories in that time. And as I was getting towards the end of that period, I remember thinking I really just about done everything. And you should always leave a job with yourself wanting just a little bit more, but not too much more. So I felt that I went out for myself on the right note, really.

If I could have scripted my exit, it would have been on a huge story. preferably involved with Iraq, where the Daily Mirror took a very strong anti-war position. Now, the provenance of those particular photographs that caused my downfall remains a bit of a mystery. No one has ever found out who really took them, why they took them, what they were really of. I can claim total vindication because I don't actually know the truth about those pictures yet. I was told by the government that those pictures were false and a hoax. Do you regret publishing them? No, because I mean, this is the same government that told us that Saddam Hussein her weapons of mass destruction.

So I wouldn't necessarily take their word for anything, frankly. What's it like meeting Rupert Murdoch at 28 when he said, I want you to be editor of the news of the world? Very scary. Yeah, I remember it. I was flown to Miami and didn't know what on Earth was going on. I was the pop editor of The Sun. And the Sun's no inkling at all. No, the Sun's then infamous editor Kelvin McKenzie said, Mr. Murdoch wants to see you in Miami.

And I thought, what on Earth for? And I remember this surreal moment of walking. along Miami Beach with him. We both took our shoes and socks off and were sort of trotting through the surf, discussing world events, which for me was a very small conversation area, I can tell you at the time. And we never mentioned anything, really. And then eventually we went to a party that evening. And I remember he turned to another executive of his from Fox Television and introduced me as the next editor of the news of the world, which was certainly news to me. He was confident you were going to accept, did he? I'm fairly confident. Yeah, I guess it was

one of those ones he weren't really going to say no to. But it was very serious. weekend and a very surreal existence for the following year, really, to be editing the world's biggest selling newspaper for Mr Murdoch was incredibly thrilling. What sort of reception did you get from your underlings, if you like, the people who you are now head of, and made all of the seasons of their lives? I think it would be fair to say there wasn't universal joy that their new editor was a spotty little geek who wrote about pop music and wore pinstriped seats and was young enough to be their grandson.

So it was a bit of a baptism of fire, but we had a very... extraordinary run of luck on stories, broke some huge stories. And I think that they realized that although I wasn't very experienced, I had that sort of fearlessness that comes with youth and just went for it. And that was quite exciting and empowering, I think, for all the staff at the time. And they were a fantastic team of journalists. Did he have a feeling then, oh, I'm not really up to this. You know, in your private moments, what have I landed myself with here?

I did, but I do think there's a lot of merit. It's interesting when you, if you compare it to cricket, for example, that you, you know, the younger you are, the more fearless you take. tend to be, the less encumbered you are by commitments, by other distractions, and by self-doubt. And I think that there's a lot to be said for plunging people into big arenas when they're younger rather than older, because they tend to worry less. Were you up to it at the time, do you feel? Probably not. No, I certainly wasn't equipped in terms of experience to do the job.

I did have a lot of confidence in my abilities as a journalist, because I just don't think you can succeed in any profession, whether you're a cricketer or a politician or a journalist or anything without a level of self-confidence, particularly in the modern media world, which is pretty ferocious. And so I didn't allow myself to show any self-doubt, even though obviously I would go home after some evenings and just think, what on earth have I got myself into? But in terms of what I showed the staff, I always try to be supremely self-confident, which I think you need from any leader of anything. And certainly an editor who's a bit twitchy about things generally tends to get the paper he deserves,

which is one that's pretty inconsistent and pretty twitchy itself. There'll be some people listening to this, but many people who feel that a tabloid editor is akin to the devil's son. How do you square with that? How do you cope with that, the fact that a lot of people, perhaps even despise what you've done?

Well, a lot of that is a class thing, because tabloid papers tend to be read predominantly by the working classes in this country, who are the sort of earth of Britain. And I've got no problem with pompous, middle, upper class people taking a lofty high view of tabloid newspapers because what they're effectively doing is taking a lofty, high, rather pompous, privileged view of the working classes. And I will always defend tabloids and their readers for what they really are, which is a wonderful, exciting, revelatory, informative, fun way of bringing the day's news and events to life. and, you know, I've read the so-called serious newspapers all my life and been bored to tears by them most of the time.

I have no problem in having edited papers that at least gave people to laugh in the morning. Did you say that most journalists are morally bankrupt? Yes. And that's true. Yes. Well, you know it is. You're one of them.

I didn't like to see it myself like that. I do think journalists work themselves into the most hilarious moral indignation about stuff. When, given what I know about most journalists' private lives, I mean, literally, there would not be enough true. and the Amazon rainforest to detail them. So I think there is, when you come out of it, as I have, I've been out of newspapers for three years now. So even though I still get introduced everywhere as former mirror editor,

I don't actually see myself anymore as part of that world necessarily, although I remain very proud of the other stuff we did. But I do think that there is, you know, you look at it from the outside, and it's fairly absurd, the moral piety that comes with working for newspapers generally and television and radio. We do collectively as the media whip ourselves into the most hilarious moral frenzies about stuff. And it's interesting working abroad as well, the different ways that different media and different ways that these things play in different countries. Because in America, they treat people in public life very differently to how they do in England.

In England, there's what I think is quite a healthy, build them up, knock them down atmosphere that pervades about people. Because some people hate that there, don't they? Well, they do. But I actually think, having worked in America, it's actually quite healthy. Because in America, it's the other way where there's just universal adulation for anyone in public life. and you do feel that collective adulation for celebrity and famous people and stuff is pretty corrosive actually to a society and to a country. And I quite like the way that in England you have the media to keep people on their toes when they're in public life and celebrities who get above their station.

But at least we do have a media that's quite fearless and aggressive here who will prick the balloon from time to time. So basically what you're saying is that the media will make mistakes, but overall it does a good job because it needs to. In a democracy, you need those checks and balance. Well, there are very few countries, for example, where I, as editor of the Daily Mirror could have launched such an aggressive, stained campaign

against the Iraq War, for example. I mean, if you go to someone like America, the media was pretty neutered over the Iraq War and you do wonder if they had papers like the Daily Mirror doing what we did, that perhaps George Bush could have been rained in a bit. The media there only turned around really pretty well when it was far too late.

I think we have a very free press in Britain. I guess a bit of a bad rap and the press here do go too far. They do sensationalize, they do make big mistakes. When they do, they get pretty severely punished. But overall, I'd much rather have a free and quite a narcic press than to have a neutered one. Have you made more friends and enemies or more enemies than friends? Probably half and half.

I mean, I think if you, if you embrace the media as I have, and I've made no problem of doing that when I was on the mirror editing a paper, we didn't have much money to spend on promotion and stuff and I always thought if I could think of we easier to get on TV then yes it was I suppose a bit self-promoting and I didn't mind that because I've always quite enjoyed the limelight but also it got my paper talked about and that can be predominantly a good thing occasionally it would get you into trouble I'm sure but I I've got no problem with that I like the media world I like doing interviews I like you know having time to go on things like question time and have rounds of people I'm aware if you do that and you're quite provocative and opinionated then half the people that hear you

you're going to disagree with you and probably hate your guts. But the other half are always, you know, fine about it and agree with you. So it swings a roundabouts. Who have you fallen out with most spectacularly? He and his lot? Jeremy Clarkson? I wouldn't have them round to dinner tomorrow, no. When his slot punched me three times.

No, no, he tried to. He couldn't reach. Clarkson hit me three times in the head. Did you deserve it? What was that for? I probably deserved it, yeah. He just kept running pictures of him with someone who wasn't Mrs. Clarkson in compromising positions, which I suppose in a funny way.

it ought to have been his fault, but it rapidly in his eyes became my fault. So when he saw me at the British Press Awards, he whacked me three times. But what I remember is I was trying to conjure up a sporting metaphor to deploy as the third punch reigned in. And I remember the words of Muhammad Ali to George Foreman in the Rumble in the Jungle. Is that all you got, George? And I turned him, is that all you got, Jeremy? Which he was quite sporting enough to put in his Sunday Times column. I mean, it was a bit like a scene out of Bridget Jones when Hugh Grant and Colin Firth are in the fountain.

Handbags at dorm, all rather unedifying and quite embarrassing. You got your revenge on him in the book there, didn't you? I did, yes. You can tell the story. Oh, I can, okay. As long as you're careful. Well, he came up with a graced excuse ever for why he wasn't having an affair, which was he basically inferred impotence,

which struck me as a pretty good excuse, I must say, but slightly unlikely. And not true. Well, I don't know. You'd have to ask him, maybe have him on, see what he says. We actually made up recently. Well, I wouldn't say completely made up. We met in a bar at 4 o'clock in the morning. It was one of those scenes where either we were going to hit each other again.

Because my family are quite army orientated, and they were pretty depressed that I'd been hit three times without retaliating. But I thought you've got to be civilised about these things. I walked over and shook his hand, and we had a bottle of wine. He actually revealed that he'd broken his little finger on his hand punching me, and I showed him in my scar on my head. And we were sort of showing off our war wounds. It was quite a proud moment for both of us, really. Very embarrassing for anybody else, for us quite a proud moment. How do you get on with Tony Blair?

Well, I always quite like Tony Blair. I mean, he's a very charming guy when you meet him. I met him many, many times on the mirror one-to-one and got on very well with him. My big problem was that I always thought he ran the country as if he was still a QC or a lawyer in that he would basically argue anything if the money was right.

And, you know, you look at Iraq. I mean, I really do believe that if Tony Blair had refused to support George Bush on Iraq, that war may never have happened. And it's been one of the most catastrophic foreign policy disasters, not just of our lifetime, of many lifetimes. So I just had huge problems with what he did with the country's foreign policy and the effect is now having on us domestically.

You know, even getting a flight up here today, the security that we now have to endure, is all a direct result of this nonsense. I also had a bit of a problem with Mrs Blair, who never saw right to wire with me. She tried to get you sacked, didn't she? Is that right? She tried to get me sacked, is that right? She did try to get me sacked, yeah, which many of your listeners might think was a very good idea. I might actually redeem her in their eyes, but I never really got on with Sharia. We just had this sort of a bit like two matsticks in a dry field. It didn't take a lot to

go off. Does it make you feel powerful when you get to meet the Prime Minister a lot? You have about that, I think, is it 56 times you've met him one-on-on-one? Yeah. That's quite a powerful position to be in, isn't it? I guess so, yeah. I mean, I didn't really think about that at the time. I mean, towards the end, to be honest, this will sound really weird. But you It used to get rather boring. And I would go down, you know, number 52 meeting with Blair one-to-one, and I'd get in. He'd say, hi, hi, the paper's looking great, which he always said, lying. And then we'd talk about football and the weather and, you know, a little bit about Iraq.

And he'd say, you know, you're going to sort of rain back, and I'd say no. And he'd say, okay, and shook my hand. And I'd go back to my office. You know, like anything, if you meet anyone enough times, eventually, he just get a rather ball with each other. So it's probably good for him and me that I departed. But I did have this memorable dinner when I left. And I went to have dinner with just Shari and Tony for two hours in the flat at number 10. And that was very amusing because he was getting drunk with me, drinking lots of bottles of wine.

And Shari was drinking water, looking at me stony-faced. And it was this great moment, a bit like the good life when she sort of turned to me. And it was like Margo and Jerry and said, you know, I said, come on, Shari, why do you hate me so much? And she said, I, you know, and Tony said, no, she doesn't trying to calm things down. She said, I do, I do, I know, come on, I know you do. And it all turned out to be something about me writing a story years ago about having bad skin, which apparently she was mortified by. And for that reason, she needed my head on a plot, on a, well, actually a pot to be right.

A large boiling pot would have done it in favour, I think. Well, people I hate it when newspapers are really personal, I think. That's probably a... Yeah, the old thing was the mirror was never that personal about Sheree. I mean, the Daily Mail used to crucify her, but the mirror actually never was that bad about Sheree. She just didn't like me personally. She said I had a dodgy moral compass. I wasn't quite sure what she meant by that.

But anyway, I'm sure she was right. What's life been like since leaving the mirror out? Well, I've ended up judging dancing cows with David Hasselhoff in Hollywood, which I must say wasn't on my checklist of future jobs. So it's all been rather surreal. Yeah, I mean, tonight, you know, we start Britain's Got Talent, to which I've tried to add the question mark to the title to make it more balanced. But I didn't honestly think I'd be judging things with Simon Cowell

or blokes who put clothes pegs on their head or piano dancing pigs. but that's what I've ended up doing and it's very entertaining. How did that come about then? Well, I've known Simon Carle a very long time and he just rang me up and said he needed somebody fairly obnoxious to go to America and be rude to Americans on a talent show and he couldn't think if anyone better equipped than me to do the job. We actually had an email from Stephen Taylor who said

Piers Morgan's on the show called America's Got Talent, where he's a judge. He excels at being very rude to the poor wretches who compete each week. All these shows seem to have a rude British judge. I think it's obligatory in America now. You have to have this, they call us snarky. I've never quite found out what snarky means, but I assume it means fairly obnoxious.

I mean, it's a bit like playing a pantomime villain. The Americans get the joke because of Simon Cowell being so successful out there. It's all a bit tongue-in-cheek. They expect us to be amusingly rude, not too personally rude, just about their acts. I mean, you've got to remember, you are seeing some extremely deluded people who genuinely think their axe worth a million dollars when it wouldn't probably be worth a subway ride home. So I do say a duty and responsibility to put them back on the straight and marrow.

Is this show huge out there? Well, yeah, it started again on the second season started on Tuesday to record ratings. You'll be appalled to hear. And it's the number one show in America. It's coming here. So, yes, I'm afraid it's not good for fans of mine out there, which are one or two. They're going to have to hide for a bit. Do you, I mean, you've had that, what, three years since you were sacked?

You talk to sportsmen, rock stars who drop out of the public eye, you know, they retire. Do you feel that in a way you've done what, you've done the best thing you're going to do in your life? Yeah, I do. Yeah, totally. What about my satisfying? I don't know. I mean, certainly, my ambition was to be a journalist, and then my ambition was to work on a national newspaper,

and then it was absolutely to be an editor of a national newspaper. And I was incredibly lucky to achieve my ambition at 28 and to do it for 11 years. So I really achieved my ambition very young and had a wonderful time doing it. I have no regrets. I think I got out just as I was getting bored and that's a good time for me and the paper and my energy was beginning to be diverted

towards other things like television and stuff which I really enjoy too. And also I would never have written the books I've done in the last couple of years if I hadn't left the paper and left editing and I thoroughly enjoyed doing the books and want to keep doing those, the diaries and I really enjoy doing the TV stuff.

You know, being a talent show judge is great fun. and other people have always had this sort of weird insistence on me that I want to do something more serious but I've never felt the need to be any great on seriousers I mean I just like having a good time would you like to go back to newspaper editing? Well I think newspapers are changing very fast so the nature of what you would be doing is really evolving by the day

and all newspaper sales are going through the floor everything's migrating to the internet I mean I think there might be excitement in perhaps being the first editor of an online newspaper But whether you would want to actually put yourself into running a national newspaper now and the current market conditions, which are extremely difficult, I think I'd find it very tiring. And also I think I'd think, like probably a cricketer who gave up and then went back three or four years later, probably thinking, why have I done this? I've already been through this mill and I've thoroughly enjoyed it.

Why go back into something when you've quit really at the right time, which psychologically I think I quit when I felt ready to move on? So I think it would take an awful lot to persuade me to go back to newspapers. really demanding life. It's incredibly demanding. I have so much more free time now. You know, the ability to go to bed and turn your phone off. It cannot be underrated after 11 years of being woken at three in the morning, you know, and changing front pages. All incredibly exciting, but incredibly draining on your body. You know, they say for every editor who goes past 50, editing, it's about five years of your life. And I understand why, because it's relentless. It's

seven days a week. I'd come to a cricket match like this and you'd be spending most of the day fielding calls, planning things. And, you'd be spending most of the day fielding calls, planning things. And Also, when you're in that world, everything seems so incredibly magnified and it's important. When you come out, you realize that most people don't read newspapers like it's the end of their world. It really, for a quick resume of the world events, a bit of a laugh, bit of entertainment, and do the crossword. And when you're on the other side of it, preparing these things, it seems like you are absolutely consumed with the vitality of every word that comes out. And that actually is not how most people on the outside view it. What's going on in your private life?

all sorts of mayhem. You really don't want to go there on Test Match Special. Well, I asked that question. Far too early in the morning. I suppose I asked that question because I've seen some old, you know, clippings and newspapers that we've dug out. Some recent ones that we've dug out. And, you know, there have been some stories about your own private life. How have you reacted to the fact that people have got interested in your private life when you used to get interested in? Look, Simon, let's cut to the quick. If you wish to invade my privacy on TestMat Special, you're going to have to just be brave about it and pile in. Come on. Now's your chance. Don't hold. back. I wouldn't. Okay. Who are you seeing now? Celia Walden. A lovely girl. How long has that

been going on for? Quite a while. And have you been seeing anyone else while that's been going on? Absolutely not. So you're happy privately. You're quite good at this. You see you can be a tabloid journalist. You shouldn't ease off though. You've got me on the rack. Come on. Where's it going? Hopefully very far. Yeah. I could think of a lot worse places to be going. And the kids get on with her? They're all very friendly. It's interesting, isn't it? It's what's interesting. It's, we mean, This interview's been bowling along. I've been asking you questions, and your answers have been lasting for about a minute or so.

And I'm clamming up. You're climbing up. Well, I'm more than happy to start asking you about yours. Happily married? Now, come on. Let's get back to more serious matters, Simon. There you go. There you go.

That's instructive. Like all tabloid journalists, you have to understand we're rank hypocrites and the last thing we ever want are the turrets turned on us. The only fortunate position I have is it most of my friends now edit other tabloid newspapers, and I know where all the bodies are buried, so I'm sort of fairly protected.

Have the papers been after you? Have the papers been after you? Do they follow you around? They have actually. In fact, last week I had the absolute joy of being pursued by two carloads of paparazzi through the streets of London. Terribly exciting, I have to say. And we got to Chelsea Harbour,

and they didn't realize that only black cabs can get through, not ordinary cars, some elitist thing down there. And they tried to get through. It was stopped, and then two of them got out and began running, after our cab which I thought was heroic actually given that we were going 40 miles an hour and they were both in their 50s but they did get a couple of sneaky snaps which were then appeared in the mail on Sunday and I was delighted to

be honest I mean I thoroughly enjoyed being pursued thoroughly enjoyed being papped love having my privacy invaded and don't really see what the problem is really do you really mean that do you in America remember being in the makeup room with David Hasselhoff my co-judge and at one morning the National Enquirer out there the real scandal sheet exposed me dark parts of talent star and it was all stuff i'd put in my own book and always he was dodgy share tipper he faked iraqi photo was always kind of nonsense and then hassol was waiting for me the huge grin saying they got you man they got you tabloid scumbag and i said i said yeah they did i said they gave me whole of page eight can you believe it

he went what you please i said please i'm delighted i said and by the way did you notice what they called me david he said what do they call you i said well didn't this call me a star judge on america's got talent. They called me the star judge. At which point you've never seen a man move faster to his agent than David Hasselhoff, furious. So it was all fair and love and more. So that's the way to play it really. That's how you'd advise. Oh God, I just think, just to go with it. Honestly, I spent years listening to celebrities squealing about invasion of privacy and a paparacts and like kind of nonsense. And I hear Hugh Grant every three weeks telling us how he hates fame and doesn't want to make any more movies. And then he forces himself to make another one and forces himself to go to

premieres and forces himself to pose for the pictures and you sort of think look mate if it's really that grueling why don't you just stop making them and kira nightly last week said you have to go on a retreat she's 19 isn't jose i mean had to go on a retreat somewhere to recover from the stresses of fame well i wouldn't worry too much you're in pirates of a caribbean you got lucky enjoy it it's honestly it's very depressing hearing celebrities whine about fame when you think about the lives of look at most of the audience here today watching at old traffic they probably most of them work damn hard for their lives don't earn vast amounts of money

don't have limousines bodyguards and wonderful glamorous lives and yet they're probably very cheerful with their lot not miserable and whining all the time well we could talk forever and ever I think I've got it all afternoon unfortunately the cricket's really beginning to enjoy it

just one final do you do know I'm not sure how you pronounce his surname actually Jeremy Mayleys I'm the local cricket correspondent for Pierce Morgan's village side the Sussex experience Yes. He's a really competent cricketer.

Thank you. And he's being falsely modest. Bowls tidily and sets intelligent fields. Well, there you are. See, modesty was always my buy-word. Well, it's been great talking to you. It's been great fun. That's great fun.

Let's hope K.P., he smacks 100 this afternoon to complete the joy. Yeah, in England on top here, 136. How do you see the game going from here? I think Peterson's going to smack 100. I think he's the most exciting bats when this country is produced in 50 years. And the fact that he's abrasive and cocky, great. great about time I wish they were all like that and you know him reasonably well don't you

I know very well and I texted him this morning saying look mate I'm travelling halfway across Britain to watch you bat I'm on test match special it's a big day for me and a big day for you don't cock it up and what was his response? He said shut up you Muppet on text to me

that's probably a good point at which to end actually A Muppet retired Thanks very much Piers Morgan on a beautiful bandy Thank you Well Kevin Peterson only scored 68 before being out hit wicket Perhaps you needed some more encouragement from peers.

Before we go, let's have a listen to an extract from another classic view from the boundary, available from BBC Sounds. Here's a remarkable Nobel laureate Malala Yousaf Say, talking to Simon in 2016. I watched cricket in Pakistan. We played cricket in the streets and with my brothers. And always, like, they would tell me, like, I'm cheating in cricket. I said, no, I'm always been the best and they don't accept it.

So, yes, just as a normal Pakistani girl, I have played. cricket in the streets of my city and I still love it and I follow it and I believe that this is a game that can bring countries together, cultures together and different nationalities together. So we need to celebrate it and enjoy it. What sort of cricketer are you? Batsman, bowler? I think I'm good at everything, but my brothers think I'm good at nothing. What about the players, you know, while you were growing up, I'm still very young, but who are your sort of heroes in the Pakistan? perhaps other sides as well.

Well, I have loved cricket and I love all cricket players. But in Pakistan, especially Shaid Afridi, everyone is Shai D'Fridi's fan. But seeing Mispah, Eunice, like our top players and also the ballers like Amir. And so it's really great, like seeing Yasser playing and doing really well. But also I have loved many players like Shane Watson, Shane Vaughn and in England, cooked it really well. And it's so all the players, like, I love cricket and I love all cricket players, so I wouldn't be biased, but obviously Pakistani players, I think, are the best. Have you met any players, any Pakistan players or any other countries?

I have, I met Brian Lara once, and I was so excited that I have never been so excited before, like, meeting presidents and prime ministers, not that excited, but when I see a cricket player like, it's just, it's just the best moment. What does it Shahid Friedi has that other people don't? I think he just, when he hits the ball, it just feels like it's the real cricket. That's what you want to see. And he is very passionate as well, very energetic. But then when he gets out, then we all lose hope. Do subscribe to TMS podcast for our BBC Sounds.

There are so many more interviews to listen to from right across the last 40 years. The TMS podcast, classic view from the boundary. Gary Linneker here. The Match of the Day Top Ten podcast is back with me and Jermaine Genus. This time we'll be chatting to some huge European stars to get the answers. We all want to hear. Who was Cess Fabricas's craziest teammate?

Which goal is Jan Franco Zola's favourite? Subscribe to find out. The Match of the Day Top Ten podcast. Check it out on BBC Sounds.