Test Match Special - #40from40: Stilgoe and Skellern

Episode Date: July 16, 2020

Singers Richard Stilgoe and Peter Skellern talk - and sing - with Brian Johnston at the Oval in 1983.

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Hello, welcome to another treat from the archive of Classic View from the Boundary Interviews, as we hear from some of the wonderful names who've visited the commentary box over the last 40 years. This time around, it's more a case of views from the boundary. As we go back to the Oval in 1983, and a visit from the musical duo Richard Stilgo and Peter Skelon. Stilgo and Skelon were mainstays of the British entertainment scene in the 70s and 80s, writing witty tunes together and each penning multiple TV and stage themes. Together they released three live albums filmed with comic tunes such as Joyce the Librarian and we never go out anymore.

The test match taking place was against New Zealand, who, despite a player of the match performance from the great Sir Richard Hadley, were beaten by Bob Willis's England by 189 runs. The final innings of the match saw three wickets for a certain Victor Marks. Stand by for some terrific memories And a frankly bonkers musical interlude Let's join Brian Johnston in that old commentary box Where he's just asked Peter Skelon

About his own cricketing prowess I'm a player I'm really waiting for Taylor to be injured So I can take over really I play village cricket And I played when I was at school I was wicketkeeper at cricket Goldkeeper at football

And fullback at rugby Which is all the hands positions Yeah, but looking at your hands for such a pairness as you, those are rather big mitts. Well, yes, you do need them, you know. They'd say people believe you're supposed to have long, elegant fingers to play their hands, but it's all wrong really. You need big, meaty hands to do it properly. Well, you've got them there. So what can you stretch the tenth quite easily?

The tenth, I can play tenths. I mean, I can stretch more, but I can't play them, but the trickiest to be able to play them. So this is what I think we like when we hear you. We hear the all reverse tents and things, Carol Gibbons and stuff, which we don't get Am I wrong in criticising the modern piano player and they go straight up and down, bang, bang, bang. Well, it is a different approach because the music is different. But I can't play, I can play all sorts of music except rock and roll, because it actually hurts my fingers to do that.

If I'd been brought up in a different kind of music, it would be different. But the thing about the left hand, the stride piano, it's great fun to play. Perhaps a lot of people should try it a bit more. Well, there's Peter Skeller. Still has still go. You always remind me of Francis Drake. I don't know if anyone's ever told you that. You've got the appropriate beard. A little bit small than he was. Yes. Yes, the beard is, I've done one of two things in Tudor costume, and it's the one time when the beard is useful. And he made that classic remark on Plymouth Ho, didn't he? The Armada can wait, but my bowels can't.

Do you remember when people thought he'd said, my bowls can't? Well, yes, I mean, you were probably there, John, and so I wasn't. I wouldn't remember that. It's interesting what Pete said about the hands and the piano and not playing rock and roll. This is in fact because he is protecting his wicket-keeping skills all the time and this pain in the fingers through playing rock and rock and roll quite a lot because of being a slow bow and it strengthens the spinning finger. They're very brave him actually as a pianist to keep wicket because you can get the odd sort of... Well I brought my finger once.

Did that affect your playing at all? Yes, it did for a year. I couldn't stretch the octave because my little finger was broken. It looks a bit bent now. I had to relearn to stretch and it aches after about two hours. Oh, poor old skeleton. Julian Bream plays cricket all the time. Now there is the finest guitar player in the world

who needs not only his fingers, but his fingernails in perfect condition all the time. And he plays... I think he fields in batting gloves or something, but that's the only concession. Otherwise, and he plays twice a week. But you play now for the tabernet. Were you ever a very good player?

No, never. We're never modest in this box if you were any good, say so. No, I was appalling. I asked about the standards of the tabernets. I was absolutely dreadful. It's very difficult because I, like everybody else who can't play cricket, I bowl slow leg brakes. Or I say they're slow leg breaks and we just happen to be unlucky and they're not turning today.

I am in fact the natural successor to Underwood. But no batsman in the world knows this, so they hit me out of the ground. Underwood was left arm. Are you left arm? It wouldn't make much difference, frankly, the way out of them. Well, the unnatural successor to Underwood. Yes, but it is so much. I mean, the reason this game is lovely to watch, is the psychology of it and the bottle. Batsmen were frightened of Underwood,

so they cowered and got out. The bottle. The bottle, the, what's another word for bottle? Charisma, character, stuff like that. Brian, I can tell you that Richard has played under my captaincy once, very kind of. Crockham Hill in Kent, and you were most useful when the local side needed a few quick runs.

This is my role, really. To try and make the match even, they put me on so at the other side can get 40 in no time at all it was a wonderful game that it was yes con over 500 runs in an afternoon that's right as I didn't as a matter of fact I think it was the other way around I think we were in a slightly embarrassing position and the opposition had to be a bit careful that didn't get Colin Cadre out before before he scored and he did eventually get 100 and Christopher got an extremely stylish 50 that's why he brought the same day

he'd be wait I can see him he just passed me this note saying say I got an extremely stylish I'll tell you what I do remember, actually, particularly about that game, which was an Oxford Blue, Fursden, I think his name was, came on late in the evening with the sun setting and bowed very high donkey drops into the sun, which were almost impossible to see. And I wonder sometimes why people don't do that. Those are bandits coming out of the sun? Spedigooze droppers, do you remember Conan Dahl's story? Brown was brought up in the days of the lob bowlers. Oh, yes. And they're very difficult to keep wicked to because they came very fast and low.

They were very tricky, well. Still, look, you're talking about coming on late in the evening. You often come on late in the evening cabaret. What would you describe yourself? Are you an entertainer? Are you, I don't know what you are. Well, as partly an entertainer and partly a cricketer, I suppose a taverary artist would be about the closest thing.

But you write all your own material. You're very good at producing a lyric or anything. At a moment's notice about anything, aren't you? Well, not a moment's notice if you're about to ask me to do one. Well, it's my day off. I mean, would you be able to bring out anything if we gave you a couple of minutes about this morning's play, for instance,

or anything which has struck you at the Oval today? Heavens. No, you see, I mean, it's very difficult. I write songs about almost everything except cricket because I'm terribly serious about cricket. I wouldn't dream of, you know, making jokes about it. It's far too important. But your other great skill is doing anagrams on people's names.

Now, if you were to give you a cricketer's name or anyone in the comedy box. I'm jolly lucky in this, in that, I mean, my name happens to rearrange itself into a lot of useful other names. Such as? Well, people like Sir Eric Gold Hat, who is the richest man in the world.

Can you do anyone from the commentary box? You're a rather difficult lot, actually, because, I mean, your name, for instance, got a J in. It's very hard to hide a J. Right. I did once, years and years ago, work with an American group called the Tinhorn Banjos. And if you rearrange them, you get Brian Johnston.

What about Sir Frederick Truman now? Sir Frederick Truman now, is it possible to get one out of him? It's very interesting actually because usually when you rearrange the name, you get something completely different from the character of the person, which is why if you rearrange Fred Truman you get something like rudder fat men, which is obviously nothing like the character itself. I think the longer names are of course harder. Christopher Martin Jenkins. I mean you get almost the whole of war and peace if you rearrange Christopher Martin Jenkins.

They're very tricky that. I tell you, crosswords are just nothing, do you? I mean, you just finished them in about two minutes. Oh, no, no. It takes longer than that. But I do. I am a crossword fanatic, certainly. I bet you are.

And all these things you sing at the piano. I mean, how long does it take you to write these, what are very much up-to-date little lyrics? Well, you do it like anybody in journalism, really. You do it at the last minute. And you rely on the adrenaline to get it done. I mean, it's easier to write a speech 20 minutes before you've done. to make the speech than it is four weeks before you've got to make a speech because

terror gets it written before you. Brian wrote his 20 years ago. It's the same one. You're working well, yes. I don't even write it because I can't read it. And so basically you're doing the one-man show. I mean, what do you go on for an hour and a half? Can you do two hours on the spot? I do two hours. Pete does two hours as well. All by himself, singing his own songs. Yes. How many of you, you sing your own mostly? Yes, always in time. Skellers, what about you? I mean, as I said, I've got the tape of all the Fred Astaire ones

which were composed by a great number of people. I mean, how much do you compose your own? Well, I used to only write my own songs and I spent the last three or four years going back to college, really, learning about songwriting from doing the old songs again. But during the course of a concert, it's roughly half and half.

I do lots of things. I do funny songs and I play some classical. music as well and these style songs and tell stories you've got this lovely sort of figure there you know white tie and tails and then suddenly a brass band appears this appears a strange mixture until you carry it and it's absolutely marvellous mixture when did this start the sort of brass band come piano white tie and tails well the the brass band's side of it came i was in the national youth brass band when i was a boy and i played trombone and being brought up in lancashire in mill towns bands were very all around you that was the the music that was made and now the

first hit song i did was you're a lady and it was about a northern girlfriend so i decided to use a brass band rather than an orchestra and it does it works a treat i mean it surprised me too it's surprised everywhere did you write you're a lady yes just give us the first line it's you're a lady you're a lady i'm in mind you're supposed to understand How these things are often planned to be... How long did that take you to write? A morning. Actually, I wrote it...

I wrote... It's like Ernie Wise. I wrote 12 songs... 12 songs in 10 days. All of which have been one of my better songs, and all were used. It was just some brainstorm that I had. That was one of them. Does it happen with you? I mean, the quicker, the better.

Not always, but you do certainly get a week when you write some, definitely second division stuff rather than fourth division stuff, and then four weeks when you can't write anything at all, however hard you try. Do you keep bringing yourself up to date? I mean, do you aim at being topical, or do you find some of the old stuff? Change the name of the Prime Minister whenever it's necessary, yes. You've got a good little song about the Prime Minister? You very. Prime Minister really writes her own, and she's quite consistent about that.

having a lady prime minister has brought Janet Brown to the fore and sent the rest of us rather into the background I'm still working on my Neil Kinnock impression Have you got the Welsh lilt? Can you do that? Oh no, it's mainly combing the hair across the top of the head that I'm working on And you've got to lose your voice a bit too to get him now

Yes, yes, that's right, he has dead silence is actually a very good impression of Neil Kinnock at most You see Earl Jenkins there is a marvellous impersonator He can do anybody I've heard the speech I don't know about that I've never tried Neil Kinnock, actually. Well, I've never really had him speak.

I'll have to, you know... But enough of John Arnardt. I thought he was Welsh, not Irish. One of you... Do you both prefer to do live... Performances before live audiences to, you know, the television and the cameraman staring you in the face?

Is it easier? I certainly, I mean, I joined in order to sit at a piano with live people there and sing songs to them. And that's what I enjoy. television is fun in that it gets you into people's homes and people can watch you without having to go out and get wet or get hot in this weather but it is harder fighting your way through a piece of glass to people than just talking to the

correct when you're you're sort of pausing for laughter which doesn't actually come well I do that all the time but I'm on stage that's why you'll show us in my that's right they're all full of pauses when I first started I used to close my eyes all the time. I used to play with my eyes closed. People thought I was blind in the first couple of years in my career. Because I always sit with my eyes closed. But now I open it.

You're just looking at a cameraman. When you say you're a lady, you're singing to a camera and does this affect your performance? I don't like it at all. The business intrigues me about it and I prefer to do something more animate in front of a camera. But the stage thing I'm gradually coming to, because I don't do many, many concerts out of choice. because I haven't enjoyed them really. But this last couple of years, I'm getting back from an audience

everything that they tell you you should get back from them. And it is very exciting, to be honest. I get the greatest thrill from making the audience laugh. Listen to them laugh if I'm saying something. Good language and jokes, music audience. No, just telling stories about pieces of music I'm going to play. Much more than the applause for the songs,

it's that joy of hearing fifteen hundred people laugh. It is quite fun. It is funny. that in respect to your cricket people also thought you were blind and they also have heard you know um Skellad, my favourite song of yours is um the way you look tonight which was a lovely one wasn't it with fled astaire and Ginger Rogers I wonder would you like just to sing it gently and we might all do a little bit of a musical accompaniment to you because it's such a beautiful thing we did it in the way on are you on the trombas I'm a bit trombone what can you do still as anything

I will do a little bit of drums and possibly some trumpet later on if I get more. Jenkins, what are you going to do, a bit of banjo? All right, yes, they're good. Are you going to do the chew? No, I'm going to do a... I think you can go out. That's right. Fine. I'll see you.

Right. So I start with that and then you join in. Yes. Oh, no, da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-ha. Oh, no, no, no, no. I've left the bridge out. No, you would do the bridge, right about it. That's the trend. Off we go again there, we're in the second bit.

Second place, right. They're all turning off in their minute. They're all turning off in their minute. A few words from you with skeletons, man. Oh, the music? I don't know the words. Lovely. La-da-da-na, I can't remember the words.

You know the words. With your breathless charm. Won't you rearrange it? I think we ought to point out that at this moment, Ollie Milberg is doing the dance that Fred Astaire did during the original performance on this song. There have been attempts, haven't there, at plays? I mean, I thought Ben Travers' one was jolly good, a bit of a test,

and then we had outside age, which wasn't there? Inside edge? Outside, outside. Was it outside? That was jolly good. I thought it was very funny. But is there something possible? something possible a musical about cricket?

Has it ever occurred to you? Both Tim Rice and I have been trying for years. Have you? And I didn't know that. Additional... Three of us have been trying to write a cricket. Oh, not with him, no. No.

It's tricky, really. It is. You're all right. You know, you start off and everything goes all right. One of the audience moves and the bowler refuses to bowl and things. And stop all the song, start again, and the audience are still. And who sings, the batsman or the we keeper?

It rather breaks up the action in the middle and over. The We Keeper starts a number. Oh, quite good, though, with the Supremes and the Snit in the slips and it could be quite nice I tell you what you do may not have been listening yesterday but before play started we went down to see Dickie Byrne we were talking to him and he said he hadn't been sleeping very well lately because he got a cottage and when he took it over there was some peacocks in it because the previous owner had peacocks and taken them with him but they'd come back and

they said he woke him up every morning at five o'clock so we said what did they sound like and he made the imitation of the peacock in the dressing and we thought It was so good that we recorded. I heard that yesterday, actually, when you broadcast it. I'm very, very impressed. As well this morning, the best piece of fielding of the whole morning was done by Dickie Byrd. The one bowler threw his cap to him, about 30 yards, and it was taken low down on the left in his wrong hand. Absolutely beautiful.

And returned just over the top of the stumps to the, well, it was an aberration for a moment. But don't you agree this is the secret of cricket the characters? I mean, not only just the players, I mean, to have a character like Dickie Bird. I mean, it makes a game, isn't it? Absolutely. What about one of your Lancashire characters? Do you have any famous Lancashire characters? I never watched cricket rather than that.

You didn't? No. I couldn't come to late in life. Still as one of you come to late in life? I was a Tattersall fan when I was a lad. What? You used to bet a lot? What?

No, no, by racehorses. I used to go along to... I was brought up in Liverpool and Lancashie played one game a year in Liverpool. Eggbuff. That's right, yes. Used to have a piano in the pavilion. Did they? Yeah.

That's where I left it. And tattasol was always my idol as a boy. I tried to bowl like tattersol. It was very impressive in his body. He was always tatters and then we had titters the other ends. Yes, it was one of the like Willie and Lily and Lily and all of that. Difficult time for commentators, I should imagine. Yes, they're both rather.

They're playing our performance out to the ground. I don't believe it. What, and they're walking out? Is that? What is it? Three people have walked into the middle of a pitch. We would like now, just to check, what are your future movements now? What are my future movements? Where can anybody go and hear your delectable performance?

Well, the next principle... Oh dear, the next principal thing. Is it up? It's us, yes. Oh, they are, they're playing it out over the public address system. Why are the crowd all leaving? Peter and I are going to have to hide in the pavilion for the rest of the day. What are you doing next to this?

The next thing is the... Andrew Lloyd Weber and I have written a musical, which happens around about Chris. about trains and that starts around about Christmas time. A lot of that, yes. Well, a bit more of a... More of that sort of thing. And that is taking up most of my time at the moment. Is this a drama or a comedy or...

Oh, it's a drama. Yeah, it's pretty exciting. And a lot of it in a carriage and all this? No, oh no, it's all about trains in that everybody in it is a train and it takes place entirely on roller skates and we've had a bit of a practice at it and watching. and watching, by the time you get a young cast all on roller skates, racing against each other, a bit exciting. I make it apart, I got a tinder behind, it'd be all right, wouldn't it?

You'd be all right, yes. That line occurs in it about six times. Sorry to have ruined the gag. Peter, what are you going to do next? Well, funny enough, I'm working with Julian Lloyd Webber. On the cellar. Yes, I'm forming a group, really, for a project, which consists of Julian and myself,

and Mary Hopkins and two guitars. And we're recording in August. We actually did a set of love songs for Julian and myself last year, which we did at the Salisbury Festival. There was a lot of talk. A lot of talk. It's not really joked in it. And we're recording it this year, but I'm rewriting it at the moment,

ready for August. And if you're performing this weather, do you still have the wide tie and tails of syd collar? I have done. Yes. Does it melt the collar halfway through sometimes? In the television scene? The starch keeps you upright, otherwise you wouldn't melt. Well, all I can say, please keep up the tradition of the old left hand on the tents,

because we don't get enough for now. Is it lovely to hear it? The old-fashioned piano playing. It took me years. Totally good. And Stilis, thank you very much for coming up here. I don't know, Jenkis, you'd like to imitate them both. Now you've heard.

You've been listening very careful. No chance. Imagine I'm talking to you. Stilers, what are you doing in the future? No, I'm sorry. They're two... What? Nondiscry.

Non-descripts. My main trouble is I can't sing. It's not a good eye to it. This is what's been holding me back for some. It hasn't stopped me. Now Peter and I are going to be all right now because we've spotted that the way to success in show business is to work with one of the Lloyd Webber family.

We've got one each now, so we're away. But you've got old Sega, Earl Rucks, too. No, but it's a strict rule of Andrews that if you're going to be write lyrics for him, you have to be incredibly bad at cricket as well. Tim and I sort of fall into this category as well. Do you play for Tim's team at all? I have played with Tim quite a few times, yes.

You have to be very bad to be selected, that's the trouble. We have our stand every now and then, you know, which the ball and a half usually takes. We've never been together for all. And will anybody have a chance to see you playing for the taverners in the future? I'm playing for the taverns at Stratford in about eight days time, and I'm playing later on in the season at Enfield. And then right at the end of the season there's a game up at Scarborough. I think we're playing at Scarborough Festival.

Asda are up there. That's right, the ASDA one. Well, that'll be doing the Scarborough Festival. Hope to see you there. So thank you very much, both of you're coming up. Peter Skelon. Thank you for having us. And Richard Stilgo, and now finish this very excellent luncheon which has been provided by our host, the Cornhill here.

And then watch the in-flight movie. And we're just going to just go back to student and hear the lunchtime scoreboard. Thank you very much. What wonderful memory is there. How about that singing? And they mentioned a musical based on trains with the cast on roller skates. Well, of course, that was taken. Starlight Express, which ended up as one of the longest running shows in West End history.

If you fancy another musical interlude of a slightly different style, my 2009 interview with Lily Allen is available on BBC Sounds. What a day that was. Talking of appalling language, I think we should be able to hear more of the sledging. Ah, okay. Don't you think? I think that's how you're going to get more young people into cricket. We've got to get some more microphones down on those wickets, those stumps.

or whatever you call them. Do you pick it up, and you can see it? Well, you can see it on the TV, but you can't hear it. I'd like to be able to hear what they're saying. I think some pretty horrible things to each other, so won each other up, no? Well, they do sometimes. I think it's a bit overrated, actually.

Really? Yeah. Oh, don't say that. Well, no, only because, well, I've been out there and played a bit, and the sledging, as I remember, it was more mickey-taking more than anything else. Yeah. Well, that can be quite mean sometimes. I mean, bullying, I guess.

I couldn't bully anybody, but. Well, it is in a way, it's sort of eating away at your confidence, that sort of thing. Shane Warren, who I think he's been trying to get in touch to, isn't he? Yeah. We might go see him later. He was a brilliant sledgeer. And he had a good googly, I hear. He did.

Yeah, that's what I know about Warnie. He'll probably, no, I'm on a go there either. What do you reckon this fellow's singing? I mean, did you like all this side of it, the music and the, you know, Sean Ruan out there singing his Jerusalem's and, and land of hoping glories and all that sort of thing. Do you like all that at the start? They were all whipped up. Yeah, I do like that.

My dad actually did a cover of Jerusalem for the World Cup about five, or a long time ago. Maybe it's longer, actually, about eight years ago. Yeah, so I like that song. I like all the Barmy Army and all of the trumpet playing. I think it's great. It's a really good atmosphere down here, you know, better than it is at a lot of football matches that I've been to.

How does it compare with what you do? That's really something. I mean, how you go out on stage? in front of all those people. Mm-hmm. I mean, is it like a cricketer going out in front of this? I don't know because I never played cricket. No, but you sat here and watched it.

Is it a completely different atmosphere? What sort of mood do you have to be in to go out and do it? How do you prepare yourself to go out there and face them all? I mean, tens of thousands, presumably. How many people turn up to these festivals? Yesterday was 35,000. Wow. I think today will probably be about the same, I'd imagine.

You know, so, yes, Glastonbury, I think, was about six. 60,000, 7,000, sometimes it'll be 10,000 and sometimes it'll be 5,000. It's the kind of depends where you are and what territory you're in and how well the records doing in that place. But, you know, it's a very different thing, you know. I mean, I go on stage for an hour. These guys, you know, if you're Stuart Broad, will be on here for hours. If you're Freddie, maybe not.

I don't know. Boy, he hopes it is. He's in next. So, no, we certainly hope he was. I found an interview you gave when you were describing something went rather horribly wrong at an encore. Oh, no, let's not talk about this, I go, please. Well, I'd like to, because it amused me at the time.

It'd obviously been quite a successful one, hadn't it? And the cries, you went, you left the stage. I was ill. Is this what we're talking about? Yes. They were shouting up for you. I was ill, should we say, and I went to the toilet to try and relieve myself between the last song and the encore.

And as you can imagine, it was a bit of a stressful situation. And it wouldn't end this stressful. situation. I can just hear the crowd going, Lily, Lily, Lily, Lily. I was sitting on the toilet and it was just the worst thing that ever happened in my whole night. It was really, really, really, really awful. So it just took a little while for me to get back after that, but I explained to them what had happened and they found it very funny. So don't forget there's so much more from the Test Match Special Archive. Just subscribe via BBC Sounds. Classic View from the Boundary on BBC Sounds.

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