Test Match Special - A rout for Root in first Test back as skipper

Episode Date: August 21, 2026

Simon Mann presents reaction from Headingley where England have beaten Pakistan inside three days in Joe Root’s first Test back as captain of the side.Hear from former England captains Michael Vaughan and Sir Alastair Cook, BBC chief cricket commentator Jonathan Agnew, and former captain and PCB chief executive Ramiz Raja. Andy Zaltzman breaks down the Test with a stat-attack.Plus, hear the thoughts of Joe Root, Ollie Robinson, Marcus Trescothick, and Salman Ali Agha.

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. Get more with BBC podcasts, wherever you listen. Be the first to listen to your favourite shows, like evil genius, good, bad billionaire, and You're Dead to Me, with a subscription to BBC Podcasts Premium on Apple Podcasts. You can also enjoy a range of our podcasts ad-free with an Amazon music subscription. You're listening to the TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live. So Joe Roots first match back as England captain ends in a thumping victory.

Innings, 103 runs here at Headingley with Pakistan bowled out for 135 in their secondings after 171 in the first. All the England bowlers joined in today, Joffra Archer with a couple of early wickets. Gus Ackison finally taking his first wicket of the match and the game was over well before T. In a way, Pakistan perfect opponents. for England in Joe Roots first test match. We thought Pakistan were going to be nice and prepared coming into this after playing two test matches in the West Indies and playing a warm-up game as well.

England playing at the 100. But actually, England have totally outplayed them. Mike of Orne. Yeah, I guess, I mean, you look at Pakistan in their preparation, it couldn't have been any better, really. A couple of test matches in the Caribbean. They win again, the first win for a long while. They win a warm-up game as well

against a decent professional cricket association team. And they came here. just been completely outclassed. They've come up against an England side that have obviously got a bit between their teeth. They know that they have to start winning games and this is the perfect series for England to get back on the winning trail.

I thought England were excellent from the moment that Joe won the toss, the first ball wicket. The tactical side of what Joe brought, it's an easy game as a captain because you're not challenged by any of the batting unit that you were up against but I thought some of his tactical maneuver was particularly today the leg slipped first ball, flicked

it straight to him, Dan Lawrence taking that catch just behind square on the leg side. So everything has gone the way of the England side. Joe's had the perfect week. You scored a few runs. A couple of players coming into the side in terms of Dan Lawrence at six, got a 50. Jordan Cox's back in at three.

He gets runs. You couldn't have asked for a more perfect week from an England cricket perspective. For Pakistan, I really fear for them because they've been absolutely blown away. They've been hammered. And they've got a lot of soul searching to do over the course of the next few days.

to try and get some kind of spirit, some kind of fight. I don't know what they can change. You know, they haven't got express bowlers that they can bring back in. They've got Baburazam who will obviously bring a bit of experience, but I really fear for them. It's just a matter of can they find just a way of playing that will putting them under a little bit of pressure at Lords. You know, test cricket is a funny game and things can change.

But from what I've seen from Pakistan this week, it's more, you know, how Pakistan cricket is now. I look at this side. I feel quite sad watching them this week because I've seen some great Pakistan sides and players over the course of many decades and generations. And this side just seemed to have, I'd be lacking all that spirit in the fight that we kind of become accustomed

to seeing Pakistan players have. Yeah, they looked meek, timid, those sort of words, really. Yeah, I've never seen a Pakistan side look so timid and so short of ideas. Tactically, they weren't quite there. And sometimes when you're looking at the tactical side, Rizwin not coming up to the stumps on that second morning straight away going surely you have to come up to the stumps to Mohammed Abbas.

So tactically have not been there, but I think the skill levels and the gulfing class between the players. Ingen have got a decent set of players, particularly here in the UK. Pakistan look a long way short. So I just hope they can find something over the course of the next few days. They're going to get criticised, rightfully so. And hopefully that will trigger them into some kind of spirit and fight to come back at Lords and putting a better performance

and challenging them just that little. a little bit better than we've seen this week. How would you sum up, Pakistan, Jonathan? Well, yeah, there's a gulf between the two teams, isn't there? And I'm on with Michael. Pakistan cricket teams generally have a flair player or two. Somebody completely unusual. Somebody brilliant, an unusual bowler or batsmer with a real flare.

They haven't got that. Obviously, with Bubba not playing, makes a difference. But look at the fielding. That is such a barometer, really, of how a team is playing. I think it's another Groundhog Day opportunity. I think I'm going to interview an England captain after a victory, which is really nice to do, Joe, and I bet you're happy as well. It's been a while.

Yeah, it has. It's been a really good week, to be honest. From winning the toss and getting the opportunity to bowl first on that surface, I think we exploited it really well. And then once we got in the driver's... we drove the game the whole time. So I'm really proud of the performance. I think as a bowling unit,

they've shown all the talent that we know they've got. It's a decent attack, isn't it? It's a very good attack. And I don't think they quite know how good they are just yet. But the more they can perform like that and we can back up performances like that very quickly, I think we'll start to realize and prove to themselves what they're capable of doing at this level.

Yeah, as a captain, to have bowlers like that to call upon, it's fantastic. Yeah, and like I said, I think they complement each other brilliantly. There's a great variety within it. We've got different, slightly different skill sets. And at different times throughout the game, I thought they bowled in partnerships really well as well. So again, it's a great way to start the series. Can we keep evolving with it and recognise what the surface is going to be like at Lords

and try and exploit whatever that brings. You set a leg slip, get a catch. Packard square leg, get a catch. get a catch. I mean, just things vote well too, didn't they? They did, yeah. But, you know, you can set whatever fields you want and your bowlers have still got to deliver and sometimes you've set fields

for different reasons. You know, you might sometimes put legs to them to keep the leg side of the ball and bring the slips more into play. Sometimes it works out exactly how you see it. So, you know, you're always trying to make plays, try and find ways of taking wickets and like said, the guys execute brilliantly before we caught brilliantly as well

which is important. So and I'm not even touched on our batting I thought, you know, Coxie the first time batting at three looked very composed, very in control, very organised Dan coming back in at six, again getting a score under his belt, having not played for a long time in an England shirt, it was really impressive.

So there's a lot of really good stuff there, a lot to build on and, yeah, really pleasing. Yeah, they've got a big smile. Let's mention Harry Brooke, the tempo of his innings, which he has been criticised in Australia for some of the reckless shots that he played. Is this the way that you think he will play from now on? I mean, he just looked calmer.

I mean, he's going to score a million runs of you match like that, isn't he? Harry Brooks is going to score a million runs anyway. Regardless of Harrybats, I think one of his greatest strengths as a player is recognizing or seeing the game how he does. He's very good at... And sometimes you're going to get it wrong, right? I mean, look at Kevin Peters's career, and you look back on it now,

and you think, look at all the wonderful things that he achieved and the amazing moments and innings that he plays and games that he won because of how he played. But those sort of Maverick players, they always seem to be under scrutiny because of the ability, because the amount of shots they have, the amount of options they have. And the way they see the game sometimes allows them to win games on their own with individual brilliance

and sometimes we'll leave people in slight frustration. What I will say, he's 26 years old. He averages over 55, and he's still very much, even though he's the best player the world, he's still very much learning the art of test cricket and the fact that there are different occasions, different services and different ways to construct an inn is and he's capable of doing all of them. So I'm not worried about Harrybrook at all, you know, he's got a brilliant

cricket brain, he sees the game amazingly well, and he'll continue to score runs. I think, yeah, it's a great way to start the series for him again. And Roots 2.0, great start. You're happy. Great start. Really enjoyed it. Really pleased for the lads as well. Coming in from the 100 in particular, no prep, sort of interim period with Stephen Fleming not here yet.

And for us to be so clinical, so organized, and to deliver on a lot of the stuff we spoke about is great. So on to laws. There'll be new challenges. There'll be different things to contend with. We know Pakistan, a very proud team. They've got some very good players. and it'll be a completely different set of circumstances there.

So we have to ready ourselves for that. But, you know, brilliant to start a series like this. Good to see you. It's been dead up there on his crutches. Yeah, I know. He's milking it, yeah. He's milking it. Nice to you, Joe.

Enjoy it. Well, Alistair Cook is down here as well. Alice, I mean, those are kind of the easier interviews, aren't they, as England captain? We haven't had many of those recently. Let me tell you. Absolutely. And they should be giving credit as well. winning. I know very easily you talk

about how poor Pakistan were and I go back to clearly doesn't be a great start when you get a wicket first ball but that first hour at Headingley to bowl to bowl that fuller length was outstanding and all of them did all of the bowls bowled that full of length

and I don't think that's as easy as it's just said so they were exit the field and they never let Pakistan back in the game. Well Marcus Droskothic is here as well who's the standing coach Jonathan Yeah, well, there you go. A lovely start to, well, whatever part of a reset were in, Marcus, but you couldn't start much better than that. Yeah, delighted. You know, so much good stuff that we've done over the course of the three days.

And, you know, we've been tested in different areas and we've had challenges in different parts. But, you know, I think we responded really nicely to what we wanted to try and do. You know, and there's many good performances from individuals across the three days that we're very happy with. How important was it, given everything that's gone on in the recent months that you'd, did have this sort of start. It's always good, isn't it? I think, you know, you want to come in and sort of set a marker down

and just get a bit of feel-good feeling around, you know, keep the energy within the group. You know, change is always a little bit difficult and when you've had major changes we have, you know, there's always that little bit of trepidation of sort of what's it going to be like and what are we going to do next? But, you know, myself and Joe

just tried to keep it nice and calm. Use the parts that we believe have been really good from the past sort of tenure and then sort of tweak and sort of guide and give hope for what we're going to be doing going forward really. I think calm's a good word.

It did feel calmer. The pace of the batting was a calmer tempo and so as it. Is that what you've really tried to impress on them? Well I think there were still parts of the game where we were scoring really quickly. Our main aim is you've got to put pressure on bowlers and we've got to be able to

score heavy, school big, school fast when you need to. But you've got to be good enough that you can adapt and sort of read situations. I think over the course of the day yesterday, there was definitely parts where we were challenged because of the conditions,

the lights were on, the rain was around and it wasn't easy. But I thought there was definite periods within the game that we read the situation nicely. And players coming in, not playing many games, played the fashion that you kind of want them to play. And the skill,

they showed the skill that they have that we've seen. So all in all, I think, you know, combination of different things, you're very pleased with it. Yeah. And you, Marcus, I mean, you're sort of in a temporary role at a moment. I mean, do you see yourself extending that and working with Stephen Fleming? How do you see the future? I'd love to, first and foremost, because I think a huge amount of respect for Stephen and, you know, what he's done in the game. He was a fantastic captain and leader, and he's been brilliant, you know, doing the jobs he's done as coach.

But it's really not in my job or my position to be able to judge that. say we'd love to carry on. We've had a great time doing what we've been doing with some success and some challenges. We'll wait until we get a tap on the shoulder and say, look, this is the direction that's going to happen at some point over a couple of months. I hope it's a favourable tap, Marcus.

Thank you. Thanks for joining us. There we go. Talk to you soon. So that is Marcus Truscothic. We're going to hear from Odie Robinson, I should think, fairly soon as well. He is the player of the match. Did you notice a small sample size, Michael, because it only lasted two and a half day.

but did you sort of detect a slightly different approach from England in this match or not? Or is it hard to say? I think it's hard to say. I think it's hard to judge what was really important. They had to win a game of cricket and they've won it in a convincing

FinCcession session, so you have to give them full credit. Well, I thought with a bat in hand, I didn't see many of the bat stands down to the seams to try and launch over mid-off or over extra cover. I didn't see any ramp shots. I saw control, even though they scored at a quick rate, I saw a lot of control. Well, I don't know.

Well, in Robinson now, you've played two tests, who man in the match twice? What's going on? I don't really know. I'm just rolling out and trying to do my best really, and it's working at the moment. I'm sure there'll be a lot worse days than the last two games I've had, so just trying to stay level and do my best, really.

To get a wicket first board the game, that's amazing, isn't it? Yeah, it's great to set the tone like that. Not just for myself, but for the team, I think as a group of bowlers, we're trying to be ultra-consistent, and when I can set the tone like that in the first over, I think it sets the template

for the rest of the game. And we feel like as a bowling group, as soon as one or two of us click, the rest of us seem to click as well and kind of just follow each other. So I think I thought everyone bowed well this week. Gus was only got one wicket, but still bowed really well.

Jof lit up in the second inning's there with a new ball. And I think with the four-man pace attack that we've got, I think we'll be seeing a lot more of that where guys are sort of getting a lot of wickets in clusters and then the others are chipping in and sort of helping each other along the way.

Yeah, because you're all a bit different, don't you? So it's a really good foil actually. Yeah, definitely. I mean, I'm just trying to be as consistent as possible and tweak my skill and I've got guys at the other end bowing 90 miles an hour, which it's always a nice place to be. I feel like the batters are coming a little bit harder at me because of it, and it brings me into the game

more, so we do complement each other really well. Tell me how the 80 miles an hour bowler gets downhill with the wind and the 90 miles our fast bowler comes up the hill. How have you manage that? So at Hove, Joph bowls up the hill and I bowed down, and it's worked well at Hove, so we kind of

stuck with it. To be fair, first day the wind was going across the ground and perfect for Jof to hold it away from the left-hander. And then Maruti wanted me to start this end today because of the first hitting. So I got away with it this week. I don't think I'll get away with it at laws next week. Love to see, Ollie. Well bold. That's it. We catch you soon. There we go. That's Ollie Robinson, just shaking hands with Alistair Kirk and Michael Vaughn. How much do you like to have captained this four-man pace attack? Alistair. Well, they've certainly

they've got the potential to be a very good four-man pace attack and I think over the next 12 months the key for England's success will be those four plus the others

constantly improving because I still think that their ceiling is high. I didn't remember I had some fairly decent bowlers to captain along the way with Broaden Anderson etc. But this is a slightly different attack

in terms of extra pace but yeah, potentially very good. What about you, Michael, on that one? Yeah, I mean they've got potentially in terms of all the pace that they have, the skill levels of Robinson. I think in the UK are going to be the key for this attack because he offers control,

he offers that tone setting with the new ball, as we saw with the first ball. You know, you can't put them in a level yet until they go away to South Africa and damage the South African side. Obviously, the ashes, you know, we can't get too excited. I mean, it's one test match into a new start. Great, they've won a game of cricket. There's not one England player or fan

that wouldn't have expected England to win the test match, but what they've done is completely hammer Pakistan, which is what good teams do, when you get the chance to be ruthless, and by being ruthless, you really, really beat the opposition. That's what England have done this week. But, look, this attack has got something. You know, you had a Matthew Fisher into this tack or a Sam Cuck,

because in English conditions, you know, I look at the way that Olly Robinson's balled this week, would you want another kind of Olly Robinson as well with the keeper's shut up at times? I would in the UK? So would you change it around a bit? I think the next two test matches. It is a, and I'm not saying in England at the stage where they can be funky with their selection,

but I won't be against. I win the series at Lourdes, go tune a look, but someone like a Sam Cook or a Matthew Fisher, I'd like to see a game in this series. This is the kind of series if you're looking to build that cartel of quick bowlers, bringing Briding Cars back in for a game, just Josh Tongue, Joffar Archer, Gus Atkinson have to play all three test matches with the sum of that they have,

possibly not. As I said, they're not at that stage yet until they've won the series to be funky with selection, But I don't think it is being funky with slecks and bringing in a Fisher or Sam Cuck in English conditions when the ball, you know, we're going to be into September by that last test match and the ball will continue to wobble around a bit. And I would like to see them try a two-and-two,

a two-style Ollie Robinson bowling tap with a two-paced ball. It's just to say how we're going in English conditions. The TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live. Get more with BBC podcasts, wherever you listen. Be the first to listen. listen to your favorite shows, like evil genius, good bad billionaire, and you're dead to me, with a subscription to BBC Podcasts Premium on Apple Podcasts. You can also enjoy a range of our podcasts ad-free with an Amazon music subscription. Straight over to Jonathan Agney because he's got

Pakistan's captain. I do, Saman, hello, that's disappointing for you, I think. Yeah, England has outplayed us and they have been outstanding in every department. And yeah, we are missing in like every department, to be honest. And we just need to press this game out and turn it things in lots. Yeah. What particularly were you disappointed with? I think in both betting and bowling, we were not consistent enough. That's what missing here.

In England, you have to be consistent every single bowl. And when it's come to batting and bowling and even fielding as well. So we were missing that. Were you surprised at the way that the pitch played as it turned out? No, really. I was expecting the pitch to play like that. It was good enough pace to bat. And it was everything for the bowlers and batter.

So it was a very good pitch to play a cricket game. England's pace attack looks quite strong. Would you agree with that? Yeah, they were very consistent with their pace and length as well. So that's why they outplayed us. And they were consistent with bat and ball as well. Well, you've got a few days to think about this. What are you going to dwell on?

You go to Lords, you get settled in, you have some practice? Yeah, we'll have like two days off, and then we'll go to Lords, and then we'll set down, and we'll definitely think about what mistakes we did. what we can think about the next game and definitely we will come back, Stonga. Good, and Babbarazam will be back, do you think? Hopefully he'll be back for the next game. Someone thanks for talking to us. Good luck. We see with Lords.

There you are, Simon. Ramez is here as well. Well, how do you reflect Rames on Pakistan's performance in that game? And what can they do, if anything, really? I mean, they look, they feel a side that are kind of just below the level required, really. I mean, what was damaging was that England only operated at half throttle and yet won by innings.

I don't know what Pakistan can do because it's limited resources, unlimited wants and limited resources. That's not going to work, I'm afraid, unless somebody gets a big hundred. See, in both innings, they couldn't play even 50 overs. And to survive in England, in test cricket, you've got to at least aim for 80 to 100 overs batting. And the bowling appears to be toothless as well. I mean, medium-paced stuff. That is county stuff here for some of these English batsmen. So that's not going to hassle England at all.

It's just about somehow clicking, regrouping something extraordinary to happen in the next couple of test matches. Otherwise, I'm sorry to say, but they're doomed. Yeah, I mean, you do have that feeling at the moment. I mean, people have turned up in this test match and thought, what's happened to Pakistan? The last time England played Pakistan, actually Pakistan won the series, albeit in quite unusual circumstances,

where Pakistan said, right, we're just going to play on these ultra-spinning pitches. One was a used pitch and then one was kind of deliberately made dry, wasn't it? What has happened to Pakistan's test team? Yeah, I mean, strategy. I mean, it's gone for a toss. So you're trying to produce a one-dimensional team that can only win certain test matches on a certain surface. And that's just not good enough for the world

because world rates Pakistan cricket and some of the exciting talent and well, you've discouraged baseballing and because so many players just want to play T20 cricket, that's an easier route to success in Pakistan, I guess elsewhere also in subcontinent, that they're just not bothered about playing test match cricket. And so you've got to create that environment where they buy into this.

The youngsters feel that to become a star, you need to perform at the test match level, and that's just not happening. We've seen West Indies fall away. I mean, are we thinking something similar? might happen to Pakistan or is there such a strong tradition of cricket in Pakistan that they can sort of haul themselves back up again? I fear for the worst.

You see, the first pillar has fallen and that is the fans are disenchanted. They're not going to back this team. And who would? I mean, you know, if you lose what, 17 test matches in the last 20 that you've played, nobody is going to back this team. So the other part is that, well, is there...

Are there new players coming through the system? The batting is below par, even at the under-19 level, under-17 level. The bowling, yeah, there are two, three quickness, but they're not being exposed to this form of cricket because they feel that they're still brittle. But I think these are desperate times for Pakistan cricket to make a comeback through pace. I mean, pace has always been our pedigree.

But if you discourage the DNA that completes us, what's the point of then playing test cricket well I mean that's kind of existential existential question yeah I mean that's the reality actually and you know I've been

sort of part of this of this group as a chairman of the board and things were working relatively okay I mean we weren't really scaling heights in test match cricket but at least we were competitive and the same group it's the same group basically 80% of the boys are the same but I don't know

what has happened. I'm not saying it's through completely bad management, but it's just that the boys, the players need to rise up to the occasion. It's up to them. It's the egos. It's the reputation. It's the fans that are being hurt. So you've got to take that responsibility and swell and do better. Jonathan, how stiff a challenge was this, though, for

Pakistan? Playing in suddenly quite different conditions. I've played in the Caribbean, didn't they? And it was hot down in London when they played that warm-mant match and then turn up to Headingley and it's cool. it's rainy and they were put into bat as well. Yeah, I mean, it was challenging for them. I think what was disappointing, I thought.

I think we talked about it yesterday. We said that they looked like a team hadn't played. They looked rusty. And we go back to the fielding again and the consistency of the bowling and the way that the bats went out. It just looked like a team hadn't been playing cricket very much,

but of course they have. You know, I'm with Ramiz. You know, it was a little bit odd that last series in Pakistan and the reused pitch and the one that was sort of manufactured. It felt very short term, didn't it? Totally short.

term and unrealistic. You're not going to want to be a fast bowler. If you look at that and see, well, that's the way that our cricket's going to go. You're not going to run in and try and bowl fast, are you? And Pakistan has always, they've always had quick bowlers, good quick bowlers. And with that ingenuity that we talked about the other day with a reverse swing and all of that, you know, Pakistan's quick bowlers and their spinners too have always been a bit different. They've always had a bit of flair, a bit of something, a bit of the unexpected about them.

But this attack, I'm afraid, it is very county levels. even if that, apart from Howard Abbas, he's obviously a good bowler, but he had no real support. And the batting just looked a bit timid. It looked a bit anxious. And when you're batting and you've got that massive lead, you know, over you, the scoreboard pressure,

well, yeah, it is tricky. But, you know, I'm taking nothing away from England at this stage. I thought they, you know, given the difficulties that they have had, and that half of that attack coming out of the 100 and so on, we talked about their fitness, didn't we wonder whether They were like, well, I don't think there's any concerns there. Well, they weren't really pushed, though, were they? Because they didn't have to bowl that many overs.

That's the caveat. Yeah. That they were not pushed very much. What I really liked about this, and I did say there to Joe Root and to Marcus, actually, was just the pace in which they played. We've been so used to the last, well, four years, to really frenetic cricket. For the, we've talked about it a lot. And for the first 18 months, it worked. It took people by surprise, and they were on a real role. but then that that kind of degenerated really to a bit of recklessness and just bad decisions

and here yes they weren't pushed they weren't pressed and they didn't find themselves really under pressure at any stage I mean physically as well in terms of the number of overs they had to bow well no I'm talking about more just the way in which they played just the mindset the maturity of the way that they played it was was much more I think likely to bring success in test cricket than we've seen in the last couple of years and yep, I go back to the point,

they weren't necessarily challenged very much. But I really liked what I saw in terms of that, in terms of the decisions that were taken, batting in the dark last night, all of those sorts of things was done in a calm, mature, and sort of discipline sort of a way, with some flexibility, and that's very encouraging. What about Pakistan view of England, then, Rames?

I mean, you talked about the disappointment of Pakistan, and, you know, they're weak in here anyway, in batting, bowling, and fielding as well, What about a perspective of England? Well, England have got a team. It's a solid team. And we knew that it's going to be a tough series for Pakistan, irrespective of how England play.

Because your own levels have dropped. And so England will be menacing. I mean, you know, come the second and the third test match, I think they'll be hard not to crack. What about going forward for England, though? Or is this not a big enough test to make that judgment? I mean, this is not big enough test, actually. They've not been tested at all, in fact.

They won by innings, but they just played, you know, percentage cricket to get over the line. Yeah, I mean, you know, there are teams that will test England, but the bowling looks to be pretty in good order. What about the spin? I'm not too sure, you know, whether they have the spin department really to challenge teams. They just don't, do they? You see, so go to subcontinent, for example, in Sri Lanka, in India, even in Pakistan. So, you know, that's the issue.

to become a world force, then you've got to have a balanced bowling attack. What about Pakistan's team for the next test match? What would you do? If you were the selector in charge, what sort of 11 would you come up with? Who comes in, who goes out? Or do you just say, right, you've got us into this mess? You get us out of it. So obviously, Barbara Asim comes in. I don't know how fit he is. He hasn't really practiced at all. He'll be definitely rusty. Then Ubechah, who's Nassim Shah's younger brother, He's around 138, 140 at times, so you probably include him. But that's about it.

I mean, you can't play two spinners there. So it's got to be one spin. Plus, batting has got to come to grips as well. I think batting has been shoddy. I mean, one of the sort of unknown factors, and Joe Root actually alluded to it in his interview with you, Jonathan, is the pitch at Lord. Yeah, no one knows what that's going to be.

I mean, that could level things up. And we saw that test match early in the summer, but we also saw the one day international between India and England. There was played on a belter, and England got masses in India nearly got masses as well. The thing is about pitches, though, Simon, is that you can prepare a pitch in certain ways every time that you look to play on it. And it's very easy sometimes to say to a pitch, well, that pitch, you know, you've got the data,

well, this ground always produces so many runs. Well, this pitch always does, well, it depends how it's prepared. And I think I think that probably they've got the preparation, wrong in that last test match at Lords. Got a lot of criticism, quite rightly so for it, and then it's got it wrong. It looked really rough at the start. It wasn't like anything I've ever seen at Lords before.

This would be a different strip. They're not going to play on that one for this test match, and it might play completely differently, and let's hope that it does. Well, yeah, let's hope so, because I mean, it was a pretty ropey surface, wasn't it? I'd anything I would say, and the Hedling Groundsman said it as well, is that it's been really weird actually

preparing this surface because of all the dry weather, and it, and It's so dry in London, so hot in London, probably hotter than it has been here as well. It must have been the most challenging summer ever to have been a cricket groundsman. But we'll have a better idea when we do see that service. I'll keep the same England team. I just want to see them going on winning games. Yeah, that was actually my next question.

What do England do in terms of change? I mean, look, the obvious thing is just to say unchanged, isn't it? Well, they've got the best part of a week off. And they haven't been exercised particularly. the bowlers, so I'll just say out you go and go and do it again. Let's just get some rhythm. You know, just get some wins. Alistair and Michael popped up again.

Same 11 for you, Alistair, for Lords? What do you think about that? Would you look to experiment a little bit? I would go same 11. I think it's more important to win the next test match at Lords than it is to see someone else. If you want to go to, if they win the series, then an opportunity maybe for a couple of those bowlers to stop.

But I think no. The Joe Root taken over, them learning how Joe Root captains and Joe Root learning how to Captain Nem, I think, is probably more important than swapping out. If there's a Nigel, obviously, but I think, no, same team for me. And Michael? Yeah, same team next week, win the series. Same ruthlessness in terms of the performance and mindset.

Have you tune up and you get away, it's Bastian. And one of the quicks needs a little bit of a breather. I said before, I wouldn't be against trying an Ollie Robinson star ball with with Oliver Robinson with a couple of quicks in the attack. But they've just got to continue with the Ruth that says, the Pakistan side are there for the taking. We can see that clearly. And, you know, when you get the chance to win test matches, take it.

You know, it was Sri Lanka two or three years ago here that they went to sooner up, went to the Oval. And almost that was the start of all of us going, oh, come on, you've got to have a better mentality than that. I don't think we'll see that. I mean, Joe's just mentioned on the television. I asked him about, you know, any communication with Stephen Fleming this week every single day.

messaging, speaking. So Stephen Fleming, even though he's not here, he's having a big say in terms of the way that this team is operating. He's been watching from New Zealand, I think? Absolutely. He's been talking to Joe every night, so he's completely in control of this team. Marcus Trus Gothic has done a good job this week

in terms of being around and being an interim. He's a perfect safe pair of hands, Marcus. But Stephen Fleming has got a big hand on this team already. So there'll be a lot of sense involved in selection, a lot of sense in the way that they play, and he'll not then let them just, you know, relax and think that they've done their job. You know that it can go and do exactly the same again at Lords on Thursday.

Yeah, and as a team that haven't won enough, you've got to keep winning, haven't you? If you get a chance to win, you win, you win. Well, winning is your currency as a team, as a count. And you've got to enjoy it, you know, you've got to get on the podium with trophies. You know, be in Pakistan, particularly this Pakistan team here in the UK, it's not a trophy that is the one that you're after. But, you know, in a few months' time in South Africa, to go down to South Africa and win, you've got to take confidence with you.

And the only way that you can get confidence is by winning games of cricket. So I would think this is the perfect series for the team to win 3-0. That's not degrading or disrespect in Pakistan. It's exactly what I would expect. It's exactly what the public would expect. Go out and deliver it, play in the same fashion. Probably one or two of the batters, as Joe just mentioned again, on the telly. There was a disappointment, he said, in the dresser room last night,

because a couple hadn't gone on to get the three figures. Well, let's see what the pitch plays like at Lors before we start to say, You know, because a 60 might be a good score on the pitch. We'll have to wait and see. But I think all the battles are known that against this kind of attack, if you get to 50, 60, you should be going on to get three figures. Final thoughts, Alistair? Well, complacency will be my slight concern.

That will be the only thing stopping England. But I think with Joe in particular and his consistency in his game, he won't allow that to sneak in. And if you're in Pakistan, you'll think, right, We've had an absolute stinker here and we've got to find something there and they will need a bit of luck at Lords where it's winning that toss

and there's a bit more rain around isn't there next week allegedly in the forecast so get on a horrible conditions and they bowl and they bowl a lot better and they put this England side under some pressure early on England just didn't allow Pakistan at all from ball one obviously the perfect start head of them and never let them out

Pakistan have to try and do that at that first half an hour at Lords otherwise they're in trouble Thank you, Alistair. Thank you, Michael. And you can see that interview with Joe Root that Michael was talking about on today at the test. That's on BBC 4 at 7 o'clock tonight, or you can catch up at your leisure on the BBC eye player. Now, the final few musings on this test match

come from Andy Zaltzman up in the test match special box. What has caught your eye zults over the last, well, only two and a half days, statistics? Yes, another short test, the joint 13th, shortest completed test match in England, but considerably longer than the match against New Zealand early this summer. Almost 10 over is longer, and that had four innings in it. So another of this trend of very short, abbreviated tests, we saw two of the shortest ever in Australia as well.

And that came down mostly to Pakistan's batting and England's bowling. Pakistan lasted 85 overs and four balls in their two innings combined. their fifth shortest match in terms of matches in which they've batted twice and been dismissed in both innings. So a disastrous match for Pakistan. And another away defeat. Nine of their last 10 away test they've now lost since December 2020. They've lost five of the last 19 altogether in the last three years. It's their biggest loss since January 2021 when they got hammered by New Zealand by an even bigger margin than this.

and their second biggest loss in the last 15 years. So it's a prolonged decline for Pakistan. For Joe Root, just a second win in his last 19 test as captain and breaks a run of 10 unsuccessful matches as Skipper, the nine at the end of his first stint as captain, plus that match at the oval early of the summer when he stood in for Ben Stokes. So he had three draws and seven defeats in his previous 10,

but I find when he is first winner's captain since he beat India on this ground in 2021. And, yeah, an outstanding performance by England's bowlers. They had Pakistan nought for one in both innings. I mean, the seventh time in England's test history, they have had their opponents, naught for one in both innings of a test, or for the seventh time that Pakistan have suffered that fate.

Ollie Robinson and Josh Tongboe, so their best match figures, eight wickets each. Olly Robinson now has 65 wickets in his first 12. tests at home. Only Ian Botham has ever taken more for England in his first 12 tests in this country and Josh Tung who at one point combining the end of his first innings and the start of his second innings had taken seven wickets in 22 balls. He now has 65 wickets in 13 tests altogether at the start of his career which is the most at that stage of an England player's career.

Also since Ian Bothman, his extraordinary late 70s, at the start of his career. So a superb performance by England. Pakistan only had one partnership over 40 in the match. And it continues England's excellent record in first tests of series. They've won eight of their last nine first tests since the start of 2024. Their problem has been in the remainder of series, and they've won six out of 22 since then.

So that's a statistic they will be looking to put right at lords. You're listening to the TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live. So much sport today and all the goals as they go in up and down the league. This is five live sports. It's all right to the lights. And for ten of floor. It's not to stop out. Everyone standing around the 18th green.

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