Test Match Special - Anderson, Woakes and Wood on England’s white ball form

Episode Date: September 5, 2023

As England draw their T20 series with New Zealand, Henry Moeran gets the views of England legend James Anderson and former Kiwi captain Stephen Fleming. England’s white ball coach Matthew Mott has the latest on whether Harry Brook could break into the World Cup squad, plus we hear from Ashes heroes Mark Wood and Chris Woakes. And England women’s coach Jon Lewis looks ahead to the deciding T20 against Sri Lanka.

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Hello, I'm Henry Moran and welcome to the TMS podcast. Looking back on England's T20 series draw against New Zealand and ahead to the one-day internationals will follow. We'll get the thoughts of Jimmy Anderson and Stephen Flynn. We'll hear from the England coach Matthew Mott. And also check in with Chris Wokes and Mark Wood. Plus, we'll hear from England women's head coach, John Lewis, ahead of their decider against Sri Lanka.

So the series level at 2-2 with New Zealand winning by six wickets at Trembridge, backing up a fine performance at Edgeburston to come back from 2-0 down in the series. Jimmy Anderson and Stephen Fleming have been watching on for test match special. And Stephen, first of all, I think a few of us saw this turnaround, particularly after that game at Old Trafford,

where England was so dominant, New Zealand was so below. part. It felt quite hard to see this coming. Yeah, it was very hard to see. In fact, we were screaming out when we got to Edge Bistin that the series needed something to make it worthwhile. There needed

to be some resistance from New Zealand. And there needed to be some substance because otherwise we're wasting time and what we have got the last two games is now both teams are a little bit on edge. They've both had heavy defeats. So certainly no complacency. If one team had dominated and gone

through, then preparation-wise you can missed some stuff but just by being tested both from a bowling front batting front you now got pretty realistic ideas about where each player is at where your game plans are at I think probably two to the teams have got what they need out of it with areas to work on so you'd say maybe six out of ten for each and say but we've got stuff to work on with with more time in a different format well in this final T20 England won the toss elected to have a bat first made some changes no Joss Butler Johnny Basto scored at 73 from

41, leading the run scoring quite comfortably. A couple of scores of 26, Davy Milan, Liam Livingston. But they couldn't go on from a good start. 176, the target for New Zealand, and they got there, the time to spare. Almost three overs left for them to get over the line. Tim Seifat, top scoring with 48. Glenn Phillips, 42, Mark Chapman, 40.

On his home debut, Rayan Ahmed, four overs, two for 27, was the pick of England's bowlers. Jimmy, we've learned a few things in this series. we've also been left with a few questions at the end of that and perhaps as soon as says that's not the worst thing when you're building up towards a World Cup because you don't want it all to go too smoothly

and leave perhaps a false sense of security yeah absolutely I think you want your best players peaking at the right time there's plenty of cricket between now and the World Cup as well but yeah I think I like the fact that some players have come in and been given an opportunity that aren't in that World Cup squad just now and have done well

I think Rayne Armours, you know, he's only played one game today, but I thought I was really impressed by him, got two wickets, decent economy rate as well, and show glimpses with the bat of what he can do. But yeah, I think maybe there's a few players in the dress room that will have wanted to maybe contribute a little bit more, but the beauty of the amount of cricket coming up is they've got opportunities to do that.

One thing I will say on a series getting drawn to two, two can we please have an odd number of games so that's in a result why is that particularly prescient at the moment for you jimmy it's only recent series well the fact that that was actually a five-match series i just feel like you know if when you as a player you want an outcome of that series and you know the weather's set fair for the foreseeable future so we will we'll get the games in but make it a three or a five-match series so that there's And that also puts that extra pressure on it. You know, that's when you find out about those players,

about the younger players as well, gives them a chance of, you know, replicating a final almost. So, yeah, that's something I'd like to see in the future. Our score and his ultimate, what have you got first? Well, obviously, when there's a tied result between England and New Zealand, the traditional way of the siding against, most boundaries hit. And England take it 79 to 75 over the course of the. Is that right?

Hard luck, Stephen. Yeah, well, there we go. I'm glad we finally got a winner. I mean, there is a fair point in the context of some of these matches, because it has felt at times that when one team's got really on top, it's hard to find that intensity to fight back. You know, okay, there's another T20 coming. We're kind of feeling our way a bit before the World Cup.

You know, having a bit more context would be useful. Yeah, the players will say no, but sometimes it's that extra edge which comes from an outcome, a big outcome, a serious decision. either, yeah, perhaps it is just missing a little bit, but there's still enough on edge that the young players coming in and grabbing their opportunity, some older players cementing themselves or sending a message as to why I should be there. So there's a lot of subplots within that, which is still really interesting, but it just

comes down, it's just a little bit empty, that there's no real relevance, and that's one of the great challenges of world cricket at the moment, games, biilateral series, and the relevance of each game. We're in the entertainment business, and it's really. creating artificially at times but creating outcomes winners and losers so yeah I hate to see it's four all at the end of this with the one day has

a little bit empty but but still look a good exercise it's a pretty coming into the good stuff now I think we've been waiting we now know the importance of these games coming out the one day internationals and that will be really intriguing surely can't go through a whole

international sum of drawn series two Ashes series drawn and now the T20 series drawn surely not well there is that potential, isn't there? Four ODIs. I'll tell you what. I'm going to ask you at some point for the numbers on that, salts, but maybe I'll have quiet a day. In terms of performances stand out, debut performances, if you like. Gus Atkinson was somebody for me who a lot of talk about what he could do in an England shirt, part of that World Cup squad, Jimmy, four

for 20 on debut, one for 25, backing that up in the third T20. What did you rate in terms of his performance. Well, I've just really like watching in bowl for, well, since I first saw him, whether it be red ball cricket or white ball cricket, I think he's, he just, he's got that something that you want to watch. You know, I'd pay a ticket to watch Gus Atkinson bowl. I think he's that sort of bowler. He's got that extra pace. And what we saw in his debut is that he's got the skills as well. You know, he's got the ability to change the place. And he's got the ability to change the he's got the ability to bowl a good Yorker and he hurries batsman up as well and I think he's just got you know got the package to be a real threat for England

going forward and particularly in that World Cup yeah and Seam is going to play a significant role in that tournament yeah I think it was a lot of focus on spin but the seam at the start can set a game up and there's going to be enough on offer that the conditions they should be fresh enough that there's a little bit in there and depending on what opposition if it's a little bit more home growing it might change a little bit but there's enough grounds now that have pace and bounce and there's enough variation from north to south where scene bowling is going to play a big part they can knock the top off with some pace even if it is flat velocity in the air is going to play a key part so i i think having

guys that can blow it apart with with quick bowling a little bit reverse swing maybe um but in a thereabouts we'll set the spinners up what about the thorny issue of harry brook not in the England squad for the World Cup at the moment we hear it feels like different messages every day one there might be yet this is our set squad then Matthew Mott has said today oh well there might be a little more wriggle room for selection I mean where are we with that he's not there at the moment well I have no idea if you've no idea I'm not I'm hearing the same things I don't know but what do you think should well it's so difficult because these questions will keep coming

they'll keep you know whether there'll be someone in the world that doesn't score runs and if Harry Brooks not there they'll say why is Harry Brooke not there but at the end of the day you can only pick a certain amount of players in your squad and someone's got to get left out at the minute that's where the captain and coach want to go and the selectors they want to go without him and yeah I mean you've got to respect that they've done a great job over the last you know four or five years of picking the right people at the right times to perform on the big stage performing the World Cups with current T20 and 50 over

World Cup champions so they're doing the right things so you've got to try and trust their judgment there might be a case further online if it you know through injury Johnny Bairsto today picked up an injury you never know how serious that is there might be a door for him to what that opens in the near future and they are long tournaments as well but the other thing is like you need to put it to bed some degree because it does have an effect on the incumbents if it's Milan who feels threatened by it or another player feels it's the spot that Harry Brooks take it, it doesn't allow them to be at their best because they are always looking

over the shoulder or feeling uncomfortable where they should be as settled as they can, concentrating on getting runs for England in the World Cup because I'm the best person for this role. So they've got to put it to bed soon. More it lingers on, the more it's going to have a flow-on effect to one or two players, the incumbents that are in there. Yeah, and what England could do with, I suppose, is a heap of runs being scored by Jason Roy and Davin Malin in the next few days and weeks to sort of actually just take away a little bit of that conversation perhaps

I guess but I think I agree with Stephen I think it's got to be the messaging has got to be

clearer whether it's whether Harry Brooks clear I'm not sure we don't know that but I think

it you know outwardly even just just like Steve said put it to bed because it will have a knock on

effect on on other players and it will you know that you don't want your two of your top three potentially going out

in a World Cup game thinking I need to I need to get something I need to sort of graft through you know you want to go out them going out there enjoying themselves and playing with the freedom that's got them into the side in the first place

so on that the two players that are you know people say Brooke might come in for Milan and Roy Milan has 400 in his last 12 ODI innings has average 61 in that time and scored at 94 per 100 balls and Jason Roy has 200 in six innings this year in ODI's hundreds in South Africa and in in Bangladesh so although you know we see Roy's form in some franchise cricket maybe not been quite as good as he would have wanted and he's been a bit inconsistent over recent years. He does have those 200s this year

and Milan also very good form reason which I guess is why it's been such a difficult selection. Not a bad problem to have I think is the saying. What about New Zealand then, Stephen? It's been a series where they will feel like it's a winning draw having come back in the way that they have and some impressive performances in that.

Yeah, some good performances. A couple of questions. Finn Allen was really good at Edgberston but but a little bit off another game. So just sort of working out his tempo, and so he's very clear in the one-day game what pace he needs to go at. Some good signs that Seiford and Phillips and Chapman,

the young Wippets that are powerful through the middle. They can play spin well, so that's a good sign going into a subcontinent tournament. The bowling was there about. The first two games, it looked a little bit off. Each of them, they got conditions, and they found the method and stuck to it pretty well. So yeah, it did.

It ebbed and flowed. It got better. They had to get better because they started so poorly. They got better and got a couple of results. And the one good thing from that is it reads a bit of confidence. What about this New Zealand side? Do you rate them? Do you see them as a team that can get close to winning a trophy as they did last time?

Yeah, definitely. I think you look at the squad. And for me, I've been really impressed with Matt Henry in particular. I thought the way he's come in, he can do a great job with the new ball. any movement there he's someone who will find it I thought tonight he bowled amazingly at the death really nailed his skills nailed his yorkers we know what Tim Southie can can bring Jameson as well from a bowling point of view and also they've got Trent Bolt coming back so I actually saw we've not touched on

this I was here quite early there's two nets going on there was one with Joe Root having a hit and there was another one with Kane Williamson facing Trent Bolt that was a great sign for a for a new zealand fan if you're a new zealand fan with the doubt over kane's fitness to see him having a bat and to see trent bolt back in a new zealand shirt even i was like that's nice to see it's a few runs and wickets there yeah i mean the feeling is that kaine will be okay yeah yeah well it's a great sign he's come out and cities available whether it's for the first game i'm not sure whether it's two or three games and he's going to play a part in the world cup i think once he got over the

hurdle of the injury and started to get some rehab progress, I think there was a positivity around that. Yeah, well that is encouraging news because you want to see the best players available during a World Cup and certainly Kane Williamson is one of those. Just to finish things, Jimmy, it seems like an England side that there are so many positives, there's so much talent there. Is there clarity, do you think, in what their best 11 is? Do you think they know that, or the next four games that we're coming up is there still stuff to be learned yeah I think those they'll still potentially tinker in the next four games I think well potentially that the island games is when it will have a look at some other players as well some fringe

players but currently for this New Zealand series I think they'll want to start with their their main 11 I think both teams will I think you want to try and win the series you want to get people in form and then there may come a time along throughout the series that you can have a look at someone else but I think you know that the likes of Chris Wolkes you expect to see Reese Topley and Jason Roy obviously coming back in as well probably miss someone out there Joe Root sorry quite a big player so yeah I think those guys will come straight in because they'll need some cricket they've had a bit of time off and then yeah I think you want to see your best players in form before you start thinking about

tinkering what are the questions for New Zealand still to still to answer Well, the first thing I was listening to Jimmy there, it starts now. It does. Every opportunity you get to get together now is going to be a layer you can add going into the World Cup, whether it be preparation, whether it be training. It's the continuity, the cohesion, the relationships, the combinations that are formed out in the middle. So really important that you don't waste any opportunity. It's a small sample that you're going in.

We've got four probably pretty well contested one days here where you're going to learn a lot. It's going to be a bit of form which can come and go before the world. World Cup, but you get to see and feel the sort of the shape of the side and if that's going to feel right for the tactics you want to use and what then you have to do between then and now to tick the boxes as a coach. What skills do we have to add? What maybe player do we have to add? Is it cultural? Is it physical? Is it technical? So all of those things from now are really, really important to bed down. Yeah, that's why it to do. It always is, but it's exciting. as you say, it feels like it starts now

and it feels like almost this has been a bit of a buffer between the different sections of summer and that now we start building up in earnest towards what's to come October the fit. Yeah, absolutely. You know, it's starting to get exciting. You see when you see the likes of Root and Williamson who are going to come into the sides,

two world-class players, you know, it does feel like, yeah, we're getting edging towards that first world. Cup match and for me as an England fan watching them defend their title in India will be I think real tough task for them but it'll be a really exciting one yeah can both these sides win it oh definitely yeah without doubt I think from what I've seen the two games from New Zealand the last two games I was a little bit doubtful what I saw in the first two but even in T20 but the second two I there's little bits of

nugget there around the tactics for India that the play of spin today was really important and those little things we're watching over the series how those little combinations work together Seifford and Phillips I know Seiford won't make it but Seifrin Phillips batting together the pace between wickets the little things can win big tournaments there's power in both sides England I think probably have the edge in that but New Zealand are a crafty side they've got some skills there they've got most of the bases covered and if not they'll get the number eight wire out and find it

way to get it done. Well, let's get some reaction. Adam Mountford has been speaking with England's white ball coach, Matthew Mott. Well, Matthew, England totally dominated the first T20s, but a little bit disappointed to end up with the squared series? Yeah, definitely disappointed. I was just chatting with their coach Gary and it always says they're all one-sided of events, which I think just shows, I guess, how strong both sides, particularly the batting lineups are.

And on the small grounds they've been playing on, once they sort of dig in and get off to a good star, it's pretty hard to peg him back. doubt we felt a bit under, undercooked at the halfway, especially after the start we got. I think it was a 200 plus wicket, and they show that in the second inning. So they just, once they got ahead with that power play and then kicked on, we found it really hard to wrestle back that momentum. Looking at some positives though, Ray and Ahmed, his second T20, a couple of wickets, run out some luster hitting at the end?

Yeah, I mean, it's great to get him a game. And him and Rash bowling together was pretty special. I think most people feel that he's our long. term replacement for Rash and big shoes to fill but to see him bowling together was great and you know I thought Ray come on when we were probably well behind the eight ball and showed something that you know we we hadn't shown tonight so it was great generally speaking there's still a lot of positives I think we've had some had a good look at some players throughout the series great to see Johnny back to his best tonight as well he you know he was pretty happy the way he hit him so

yeah there's plenty of positives you didn't kick wicket Johnny with a shoulder problem what's the latest on that I don't know to be honest he's not sure himself. They'll assess that overnight and tomorrow and we'll have a look. He didn't think it was all that serious but you never know really until tomorrow to see how he picks it up.

You obviously decide though to give the captain a rest out of the ODIs. Is it just a case of managing workloads? Yeah, yeah, Joss made the decision himself that it would be a good chance to, you know, step out with a view to the ODIs. And we always feel it's a great opportunity for Mo to lead.

We did it in Pakistan. and it just future-proofs anything if it goes wrong as we saw tonight with Johnny's injuries that the more leadership opportunities we can give to some others and take pressure off is well worthwhile. In terms of other things you've learnt over the course of the T20s, I imagine Gus Atkinson is a major plus. A huge plus. I think everyone who saw him bowling throughout the summer was excited by what he had to offer

but he seemed to even raise it a bit at the international level and I think that's always a good sign and I thought cast is excellent as well when he came in. And, you know, he probably, his favorite format is ODIs. We come in in the T-20s and bustled in and, you know, made a real impact. So there's a couple of really big finds for us. One of our goals is to keep giving opportunities and building our fast bowling depth. So there's some really good stuff coming. Got the Wandares, thick and fast that they're coming.

How important are these? Because you haven't got many games ahead of the World Cup. Yeah, they're vital. I think when you look at the summer that leads in this World Cup, those are the ones that were probably the premium. emphasis on you know we'll play basically what will be close to our World Cup squad in that in that game and cast will come in as well so there's some you know there's some good cricket to be played I think you know there's four

matches as well which is good you get your teeth into a bit more and then obviously got Ireland as well with the you know it might look a little bit different that side but I think that's a really good prep and the fact that it's New Zealand who are your first opponents in the World Cup does that put any extra pressure on these games no not really I think that the one good thing I would say is that we you know like we in the T20 World Cup where we played Pakistan in their conditions.

I think New Zealand will be contenders again as they always are in the World Cup. So you wanna be playing the best sides as you lead in and ask a few more questions and put the team under a bit more pressure to see how we cope and that'll just do the final tinkering with our side and we'll be ready come that first game.

Just to clarify one thing, we've obviously heard all about England squad, is it provisional squad, is it the World Cup squad? So what is the situation? Is that the team that's been out there, Is that the squad you'll take to the World Cup, whatever happens now? No, no, it is just under the ICC regulations. You have to name a provisional squad, which is early,

but there's an opportunity to make changes throughout that right up to just before the tournament. So, you know, I think obviously the guys that are in that 15 have got the first crack at it. And we, as we've said throughout, that we'll just monitor and see how people are going and, you know, make some fine-tuning if needs to be. But there's a lot of cricket before we play that first game. in, you know, it's nearly a month's time. So there's plenty of opportunities for everyone to put their hand up. You mentioned, of course, there are opportunities.

You know, I'm going to talk about Harry Brooke. There's lots of headlines, of course, about his admission, so many fine players. So is the door open for Harry Brooke to play in the World Cup? Yeah, it is. He's one of a number of players, I think, that has the opportunity to put their name up there. What I would say about Harry is what you want to see from players when they miss out on opportunities is them to come back and slam the door down.

I thought at the start of the series, he made a real statement, obviously, 100 in the 100. So those are all the good things that go in his favour. So, look, yeah, I think it's still open for debate. There's going to be some good cricket played the next month. And let's see what that side ends up looking like. Has he got an opportunity himself, though, because he's not in the one day squad to play against New Zealand. We don't know what the island squad is going to be yet. You talk about players having a chance, but he's not going to get any cricket, is he?

Well, he potentially will be in that odd. Ireland series. So you can, you know, you can read into that. There's going to be more opportunities there. But yeah, look, he's a gun player and he's going to be, I believe, one of the better players in his generation. So it's just an incredibly hard side to, you know, squeeze players into it. We've only got 15 spots. It's not always about just picking the best players. It's sometimes it's about, you know, what the what ifs in World Cups? What if this happens and what if that happens? And, you know, we've workshopped it a lot. We'll keep an open mind and see who stands up. So last question, I mean, four years ago in England won the World Cup,

there was a lot of talk about Joffar Archer, and Simpson may have been a bit of distraction building into a World Cup. Now it's Harry Brok and talk about those sort of things. Is it any kind of distraction at the moment this sort of talk? Not really. I think it's the media's role to create speculation. It's our job to put a lid on it. And I think we're doing that really well.

I think the players are coping with it well. Look, there's always pressure on international cricketers. And in very good teams, good players miss out. and that creates a real hunger and desire for players to get even better because they know that there's someone that's ready to take their place if they don't perform so that's a healthy thing that happens in very good international teams and last last last question this is the last last I promise the last last question just about the island about the island squad you mentioned obviously something like harry book have you got any thoughts about what the maker of this squad's going to be and obviously got ben stoats coming back for england these next games what are you sort of thinking for island look you know we'll sit down with the panel they're actually thrown around some ideas we decided that we wouldn't really nail down anything until we saw how this series goes so yeah stay ready we'll probably let you know in the next day or two you're listening to the tms podcast from bbc radio five live

so we're going to move on to two one-day series to finish the international summer starting with four games against new zealand the first of which is friday in cardiff with tms on air at 1215 england welcome back to stars of the recent ashes summer in chris wokes and mark wood we'll hear from in a moment, but I've been catching up, firstly, with Mark Wood. I'm good, thanks. I think from a total fitness point of view, I still feeling great, Nick, you know, after the ashes and stuff, I still feel I'm well-conditioned.

In that last test match, I picked up a bit of a bruised heel, which is not uncommon in fast bowlers. I think to play three tests in a row is always going to be a big ass about someone like myself who, you know, my injury record's not great, so I'm getting slowly back into it now. I've got the ODIs coming up against New Zealand, hopefully maybe feature. are in one or two of them and then build up with the World Cup very much of mine so it'd be nice to get a white ball on my hands again and totally enjoyed the red ball side of things but time time for a change so so the plan is that you'll play one or two perhaps of those ODIs just as a get in the rhythm of the 50 other game yeah well I haven't played white ball

cricket sorry since India I think would have been yeah the last in the IBL so that's a a long time ago so it's just more to get the feel of the skills again it's slightly different in the test match cricket obviously get used to the games and stuff if it doesn't happen and I'm not quite ready then there's warm up games in India but I'd love to play I mean I've missed so much

so many games for England that you know I just want to try and play as much as I can at this stage of my career and you know to play against New Zealand who are a top team would be a really good test as well and they've got some you know good Fastballers in their ranks, Milne and Lucky Ferguson, so it's always great to come up against them fellow fast bowlers

and try your hand and see where you are in terms of where they are in the calendar year and how I'm doing myself. I can barely believe it, but it's less than a month since the end of the ashes. I'm still not over it. I know. I feel not satisfied as how I feel like. Do you? I feel like that should be more.

To finish 2-2, I wanted more and more and more. I didn't want it to stop. obviously I would have had to have stopped at that point because I couldn't put any weight on my heel but, you know, it was such a good buzz at that time around just the whole country, to be honest, like even walking down the street and I don't normally get bothered,

but those people saying, well, loving it, good luck and things are, and it was just amazing to be a part of and the cricket was great and the support, like I mentioned, so you just didn't want to stop, and you feel like because it's ended in a draw, it just leaves a taste of my mouth

where I'm like, I feel like I'm not satisfied, I want more of it so a month it's gone by and I'm still not over it No How many times Do you watch

Usman Kowager Dismisslet at the headingly I haven't I watched it a lot at the time But not so much lately I think Like I said I'm a bit sad

That it's all It's all done and dusted And that was a great You know A great spell And you know One that I'll always look back Fondy with

But the thing I remember Most about that game Was actually me batting More than me bowling You know I've been there at the end With Woxy When

you know I've never been in the middle where I've been there plenty of times where I've edged it or someone else is getting out and we've lost the game we have to shake hands but it was the first time where we've getting over the line and I've been there especially my big mate Wuxi and to see

you know the way the crowd reacted he reacted is just that that's a special feeling and I'm hoping you know in sort of like five 10 years time when we get back together out and say it works you man when you smack that one through the offside and everyone went mental we were going crazy and I grabbed you in oh class

That's why you play the game. Exactly, exactly. And to do it in a big series like that, that's what you're, like, you'll be remembered for. And, you know, a great moment for Woksey that hopefully it'll be replayed. Maybe not quite as much as, you know, Stokesy's Herokux of 2019, but another head in league classic where Woksy waxed it through the offside and we win the game, which was really nice.

It's been some 12 months. It's, what, only 9, 10 months since lifting that World Cup in the T20s in Melbourne. And then we got the 50 over to, coming in India. It's been frantic, as now? How do you cope with that as a player trying to sort of compartmentalise it? I think for me, it's a bit more difficult because I have to

sort of speak to the coaches and know if I play everything, I'm inevitably going to get injured. So it's just trying to get that right balance of when I should play, when I, you know, when I need to be rested or whatever like that. So, I mean, it sounds a bit precious in, you know,

any game I play for anything, you never take it for granted. Like, if you're picked, you should be trying to play as much as you can and I'm no different but I think history proves that if I play everything my body just gives up so um you know I want to try and play as much as I can that's 50 over World Cup was another big event one that you know I want to really cement our team is one of the best ever because we've won the 50 over we've won the 2020 if we could defend it then people could say wow that England one day team was one of the best ever in India in India as well I mean like if I speak about here oh yeah it sounds easy

or we'll just go there and defend it. It's obviously going to be really tough. It's going to be hard work, especially in India and those conditions. But I really believe in this team. I've got a lot of trust in my teammates. And I believe that, you know, the depth we've got, the quality we've got,

I really think that we could do something special. So why not? You know, there's a number of times as an English fan, or I've looked back and thought, oh, I hope we do well today. I hope we win. But I actually truly believe that we can beat anybody. If we're on song,

I think we've got the players to beat anyone in the world. no matter where it is we'll give it a good go and try and bring it home what was your reaction when you heard that Ben Stokes was going to be part of it I think everyone knew didn't it it's some worse unspoke about secret ever

I felt that he was surely he was going to come back I totally understand his decision with his knee and how much cricket every like sort of the team's play maybe that he couldn't commit to everything especially being test captain and stuff but for a big event like this

especially in the time frame where we've got probably the best one day team that we've ever had I mean you look at Morgie's team we're now in Josh's team

Stokes is in that era and him not to be there I think would just be sad so to have him there big game player turns up in the big moments was there in 2019 the 50 over

there at the end at the end of the T20 I feel like you know he's someone that I mentioned the word trust before I think that's perfect for someone like him

If he's in the middle, we'll trust that we wouldn't get over the line. It's sad for Brookie. He's a fantastic player, a little bit, I guess, in the way, like in 2019, where we had loads of lads that could have played there. We had the same now where lads could play. We've got that depth. And if there's an injury, I'm sure Brookie could come in, and that's not going to be a problem.

And we know that when he comes in, it's not like he were replacing it with someone that's not the same quality. like he's got so much quality so I'm you know please that Stokes is there but of course it's always sad when someone misses out Have you spoken to Ben since since he announced it?

I actually message him the day before he came out and I was like come on we all know but come on I want to hear from me tell me what's happening and he just went yeah I'll see you in India so that was pretty much all I got it wasn't like a lull like Mone alleys or anything like that but it was nice to know that he

was coming and the only problem is I've got to put up him on the flights he's no good for my flying Stokesy He tends to tell me that Oh well if if X, Y or Z happens It happens and that's not good for someone that doesn't like flying You don't need that sort of ration No I don't which is why I's you know

He's often at the back end I'm pleased that Topley's in the team That not just him further slightly further away from me But walks is a nice that he looks after me As it goes alphabetically Yes usually it does so I'm normally at obviously at the back corner And David Saker I must have said it of his 900 times

Oh, it's all right, Woody, you sit at the back The plane's never back into mountains Which, you know, it was funny the first time But now I just got to say to him, look, sake, I don't need to hear that Oh, dear, so that England's gone at the other end of the plane, Gus Atkinson. Yes. Tell me about him, what's he like?

Well, I've never actually seen him ball live. Have you not? No, which is quite exciting. I've seen him, obviously, on the television and heard great things about him. Exciting that we've got, you know, another fast bowler coming through. Um, you know, once upon it down, people would say, oh, we're desperate for a 90-mile-in-hour ball. I sort of think, like Joff Ramyself, goes Stoney.

You know, we've got lads coming through now that can carsey. So we've got lads coming through that, you know, in different conditions. We can challenge different teams and not just have, you know, our English-style bowling, which is, you know, swing and seam and stuff, we can now mix it in other conditions as well. Do you think that the armoury, because we know about England's batting, but with the ball, the sort of the firepower is there if you like to cause some damage

honestly no I think my power is in my batten I think that's where it'll always be in this current group I mean if you look at the like I mentioned brooky missing out in the World Cup he's a superstar player Johnny one of the best if not one of the best

opener in white ball cricket Joss you could put him in that exact same category we've got batters I think that could you know be destructive and really make a difference And I think if we're going to win in India,

I'm going to pass the book off the ball as and take the pressure off us and say it, yeah, Savvy, yep, and say that I think our batten's the one that all, you know, could really push us hard in India. Well, that was Mark Wood. We can hear now from his great friend Chris Wokes, who I also spoke to, firstly sharing memories of an Ashes series

where he played such an important role. Yeah, it's amazing, kind of come and gone in a blink of an eye, but I was very much ready for it to end at the end of the series. Yeah, definitely mentally and physically drained. But what a series to be a part of. It was amazing. I remember speaking to Mark Wood, we chatted to him at the end of that game at the Oval. And my abiding memory is him saying, well, me and Wokes, you've come in with 1-2-0.

And, you know, it was an amazing series in that sense. You know, it swung and it turned and, you know, you never quite knew where it was all going to go. And to have been a part of that and joined that narrative, it must have just been unbelievable. Yeah, absolutely. It was exactly that. It was, you know, kind of, I suppose, in what? In many ways, it has an overly sunk in, really, as to how it all unfolded and, you know, obviously not being, having a huge impact in the first couple of games.

Obviously, we're not being selected, but, you know, they're a long series, obviously, actually serious, and such a tight schedule kind of felt that there was always going to be an opportunity at some point to get a go. Just had to bide my time, and, yeah, thankfully when it came, I managed to take it. I think particularly in the first test match, you want to come in and make an impact straight away. So that was, you know, really nice to do that. and then whatever followed followed but yeah headling was good fun yeah talk us through that moment at the end you were out there in the middle and hit the winning runs out towards the western terrace

i mean those are those iconic moments aren't they i mean that how was that yeah and that's the sort thing i suppose that hasn't that probably maybe still sunk in you know those moments which you you'll probably watch back for a long time uh in the future is you know to have had such a huge impact and be a big part of that is um yeah really pleasing and incredible, you know, to be a part of Ashie's winning teams is what you want to, you know, be a part of and winning that test match at Headingley was, was incredible to be out there and, you know, hit the winning runs. I suppose I had a small feeling of what it felt for Med Stokes, so I was probably another 130 on run shy of what he got, but, you know, had that small feeling of what he must have

felt in 2019 was, you know, it was pretty special. Yeah. And it doesn't stop any of this because if you play all the formats and you're busy and you are, then, you know, it's, you know, it's, If it's not a big test series you're thinking about, it's another major ICC event, and suddenly we're on the eve of the World Cup. Yeah, that's right. You soon move on in this game, don't you? It's easy to forget what's just gone,

and you have to approach what's coming up with the same sort of intensity, the same mindset, you know, to go in and try and win. And that's international cricket, I suppose. But the chance of going to India and, you know, hopefully defending the World Cup, that's what I suppose it's all about. You know, they don't come around too often,

obviously every four years. and a great opportunity it is, I suppose, with such a great whiteball depth that England has. It's a great opportunity to go there and do some special again. Yeah, I mean, how hard is it for you guys that have been playing across, you know, Asher Series 100 into a work? I mean, mentally compartmentalising these things to get yourself in the right frame.

Yeah, I mean, we've obviously, you know, you try and manage your workloads, I think, as much, you know, as best as possible. I certainly only played three games in the hundreds so it didn't feel like I was overused too much you know thoroughly enjoyed my time with Birmingham Phoenix and enjoyed the competition but obviously firmly had my eye on what was to come

with England's whiteball stuff as well so you tried to keep myself in shape have a little bit of a rest as you said you know decompress a little bit from what happened in the ashes and get myself ready and ready and ready to go for what's going to be a busy time coming up yeah it is You know, in your mind, what are you expecting from the World Cup?

Because it's intense these tournaments are, and they're long as well. It's over six weeks. It's going to be hard, isn't it? About that, it's not going to be, I don't think it'll be playing sailing. I think we even, you know, when you look back to the 2009 team win here, you know, we were firm favorites to win that competition, but you're coming up against some serious teams along the way. And, you know, we had a few hiccups, didn't we? And, you know, that was in home conditions.

So, you know, I don't think we need to go to India and play nine, win nine in the group stage. I'm sure there'll be a couple of games where we don't quite get it right. That's just the nature of the game. But you just want to make sure that you come good at the right times and make sure that when you hopefully make a knockout game potentially that you're on and you give that your full attention and you perform well in those moments. Interesting chatting to Woody the other night.

He said, you know, we know that our strength is our batting in whiteball cricket and what we do as bowlers as we try and support that and make that the full rounded picture, I suppose, in that way. And it's an interesting role that. that you guys have with the ball. Of course, you contribute with the bad as well, but knowing that there is that firepower as well, I mean, it's an extraordinary team.

Yeah, I think that, you know, really right in saying that. I think over the, you know, ever since that 2015 World Cup, I think, you know, our strength has certainly been at batting and the way the guys have gone about it has been, you know, superb.

It's a lot of the time has gave us a lot of totals to defend, which you'd like to think you'd defend more often than not. But I suppose the flip side of that is that teams come a lot harder at us to try, either if they're back first to try and get a big score,

you know, which puts us under pressure as bowlers to try and make sure what only we take wickets, also they don't go for too many. So, you know, I think that's improved our game by the fact that batsmen come harder at us, you know, but, you know, we certainly know what a strength sign will certainly play to them. Yeah, and it looks as though

there's some guys that are coming into this England side and don't seem to be phased at all, Bryden cars, Gus Atkins, that must be really impressive last couple of games. No, definitely. You know, it's incredible. I always look at the guys coming in now who have played a lot of potentially franchise cricket

and cricket around the world and they're almost hardened already to international cricket before they even approach it and come into it. So, you know, it's a great place to be for them. They come in and, you know, fearless and come in calm as in cool as a cucumber as we've seen Gus Atkinson do in his couple of performances.

But it's great to see the depth is there. It keeps us old dogs on our toes, which is great because it means that we have to keep improving to make sure that we keep our places. and you know it certainly makes us a better stronger and stronger team as an england team that's for sure i mean there is a lot of experience in this england camp there's a lot of guys that are north of 30 and you know that's that work in your favor do you think going as a tournament i guess yeah i mean i i think so i'm 30 plus so you know i'm going to

you know be singing from our corner but at the same time i think it is important you've got a bit of a mix of that balance of you know guys that have been around a bit and played and experienced tough tournaments and big big games and then you need that sort of fresh exuberance is I don't know if that's the right word to use of guys coming in that are fresh and not played too much international cricket and they're you know keen to to show off their tricks so I think it's good to important to have a bit of a balance excited yeah absolutely definitely I I mean we've got these ODIs against the Kiwi starting next week which will be a good sort of test for us you know against a very good side before we obviously play them in the

opener in the World Cup so you know try and get some form and play play well in those and then obviously It's a matter of going out there and hopefully pointing some strong performances. Well, Chris Wokes there, who will hear in that World Cup on BBC sounds. And before that, in the New Zealand One Day internationals, which begin on Friday. Our next live international cricket on the BBC, though, is Wednesday, as England's women face Sri Lanka in a game you can follow on BBC 2 as well as five sports extra. That's live from 545 on Wednesday. It's a decider after Sri Lanka surprisingly secured the second T20 at Chelmsford,

Asked England coach John Lewis how his side have reacted to that defeat. Really positive. We've had a bit of a think about how we've gone about our business down at Chelmsford. And the girls have been really proactive and how they're trying to work out how to play the spinners on what will probably be a similar type of wicket, I think, up here at Derby that we played at Chalmsford. So it'll be an interesting challenge for us, a good challenge for us ahead of, you know, we've got a World Cup in a year's time. and we're just trying to work out the best way to develop our young batters and this is a great opportunity for us to do that. As coaches, you've always got to look for the opportunity when the disappointments come and a bit of a wake-up call can sometimes be quite a good thing

and I suppose that match acts as that? Yeah, for sure. You know, I think since I've been head coached in the England women's team for the last all eight, nine months, the way that we play spin is something that I've been really keen to find the opportunity to work on. We've obviously had a World Cup and an Ashes series where a lot of the time, rather than trying to develop the side, you're trying to really galvanise the team together to win games of cricket,

the ones that are right in front of you because obviously they're all so important. So for me, this series against Sri Lanka and the 50-over series that comes after it is a really great opportunity for us to view our young players and put them in pressure situations and see how they respond. So we've got quite a settled T20 side that played against the Australians in the summer. And this is an opportunity for us to go,

okay, who's outside the group that can come in and show their hand and show what they can do. Yeah, and spin is going to be significant over the next 12, 18 months, particularly when you look at Bangladesh and that T20 World Cups, I mean, it is an area that has to be resolved. Yeah, totally. No, it's something that we're, you know, we're working really hard at.

And, you know, we've got a T20 World Cup, sorry, we've got a series, I think, in India in December, a T20 World Cup in Bangladesh, and then a 50 over World Cup in India. So three of our next four or five series are in the subcontinent. So it's something that we're prioritising, looking at, and we're really excited about what lies ahead. And hopefully we can obviously improve from what we did on Saturday, but not forgetting the fact that we're down. at Hove in three days before that, we scored 186 off 17 over. So it's balancing, maintaining the really positive mindset that we'd like to play with, alongside developing our games and working out how to be better at what we need to do moving forward. Yeah, a number of key players missing as well. It's worth pointing out, though, Nat Siva Brunt and Sophia Dunkley, Sophie Eccleston, through injury as well.

So it is an opportunity, this, for players to come in and stake a little bit of a claim. Yeah, for sure. I suppose the most important thing is we're trying to manage all of our players in a really a new era for women's cricket, you know, the fact that there are now multiple franchise competitions that a lot of the girls will want to go and play in and can really help develop our team as well alongside a really consistent international programme. We've got to work out with each individual how we manage each. of them and how we get the best opportunities for them to develop and grow whilst obviously we're

an England cricket team we're trying to win games of cricket at the same time so balancing all those things together and managing every single individual's program along the way is really important for us and to make sure that when we get round to the major events that we go to play in terms of World Cups and Ashes series that all of our players and all of our best players in particular and most experienced players are really ready to perform at that time. What about Sophie Eccleston? We saw the pictures on social media in-hospital post-operation. What's the latest on how she is? Yeah, I think the operation went really well and the surgeon was really happy.

So we're looking forward to, you know, getting her back playing as soon as we can. You know, we're hopeful that that will be in time for the India series. But as always with these things, sometimes they take longer than the newer. expect, but we're really hopeful that she'll be back playing cricket in India in December. Yeah, well, fingers crossed there. It was a dislocation of the right shoulder, so not the bowling arm, which I think when we saw the potential of shoulder dislocation, that that was the question, wasn't it? Which arm was it going to be? So fingers crossed, as you say, she'll be back up playing sooner rather than later. No, Lauren Bell as well for this series.

So can we expect her back at all before the end of England's commitments this month? No, Lauren's picked up a bug She's pretty unwell Actually at the moment So we wish her well And hopefully she gets better So we've got Four games in about eight or nine days

So it's more It's pretty unlikely That she's going to come back And play some cricket for us But you never know She might turn it around But I'd say it's unlikely Righto

And just finally It's been an amazing summer For England's women And the women's game With the continued growth Of the hundred All these crowds And everything else

What are you looking for from these final four games to really put the seal on what has been ultimately such a positive summer for the women's game in this country? I think I suppose the thing that I'm most looking forward to is the continuation of how we play our cricket and combining that with an understanding that we've got some young and experienced players out there so they're going to make mistakes and there's going to be a bit of ebb and flow in terms of how we go about what we do.

but if we can maintain the mindset that we've currently had over the majority of the summer and then playing our aggressive way we'd like to play and really taking the game on and trying to entertain the crowd and inspire the next generation of crickers and I'll be really happy with how the summer's gone. You know, it's been fantastic to see so many people turn out and watching women's cricket and hopefully over the next week or so we'll get some really good crowds as well. That was the England women's head coach John Lewis. that game on BBC 2 as well as coverage on BBC sounds and check out the BBC Sport website and

app for highlights and reports on all England's men's and women's games as well as every ball of every match in English domestic cricket. Sailenders much more than just a cricket podcast. Lusely cricket based meaning we very rarely talk about world cricket. Yes. But when we need to, we can do. Boy, can we deliver. As England's greatest ever bowler, you don't. don't need to do this podcast, but why do you? Welcome to Taylenders, a Lucy Cricket Base. Thank you, Honours Tullin's Lucy Cricket Base, with podcast from me, Chief Force, him,

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