Test Match Special - Andrew Strauss and Glenn McGrath on the devastating impact of cancer

Episode Date: August 14, 2019

Ahead of the Ruth Strauss Foundation Day at Lord’s, Andrew Strauss sat down with Glenn McGrath to talk about the impact of losing their wives to cancer, but also the foundations they’ve set up in their names, and how cricket can help raise funds and awareness. Jonathan Agnew, whose wife is in remission from cancer, hosts the discussion as Lord’s prepares to turn red for the day.

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. To embrace the impossible requires a vehicle that pushes what's possible. Defender 110 boasts a towing capacity of 3,500 kilograms, a weighting depth of 900 millimeters and a roof load up to 300 kilograms. Learn more at landrover.ca. BBC Sounds, music, radio, podcasts. Hello, I'm Jonathan Agnew. to the TMS podcast. They'll still be the usual daily podcast today, but tomorrow sees a very special

day here at Lords. It's the first Ruth Strauss Foundation Day, launched in memory of Andrew Strauss's wife who died with a rare form of lung cancer just after Christmas. They're hoping to replicate the success of the Jane McGraw Day in Sydney. Every year, the SCG turns pink on the third day of the test match in memory of Glenn McGra's wife. Well, last week I sat down for a chat with both of them to talk about their wives, their foundations, and also what we can expect tomorrow. This was a conversation that had very little to do with cricket, but in many ways, cricket is at the heart of it. Gooday. I'm Glenn McGrath, former Australian fast bowler. My wife Jane was diagnosed with breast

cancer, age 31 in 1997. We went on to have two very happy, healthy children, and unfortunately came back. She passed away in 2008 at the age of 42. Hi, I'm Andrew Strauss, former England cricket captain. My wife, Ruth, was diagnosed with a rare form of lung cancer at the end of 2017. We have two great children together, Sam and Luca. Unfortunately, Ruth passed away at the end of December last year at the age of 46. Hello, I'm Jonathan Agnew, the BBC cricket correspondent. My wife, Emma, was diagnosed almost exactly two years ago with breast cancer.

She's had successful treatment and is currently in remission. Well, Andrew, it's lovely to see you here. How are you getting on? Yeah, thanks. Well, firstly, nice to be here. And to see you as well, Glenn. Yeah, going as well as can be expected. I mean, it's been a tough seven months since Ruth died

and probably even tougher 12 months leading up to her death. But, you know, I think one thing you really realize when you've got young kids is that life doesn't stand still. It always moves forward. They're busy. They're at school and there's plenty of jobs to do in and around the house. So I've been very much on duty and just navigating our way through it one day at a time really. It's definitely got a bit easier but at the same time that sort of grief doesn't leave you and you just have days where you remember and that's part of the process have you found that people have found it hard to know what to say to you

and conversations have been awkward and very much you know and you know Glenn I'm sure you agree with me I found myself drawn to people that have been through similar experiences because first of all you're trying to glean some information off them as to how this might play out in time you know you've never been down this route before or certainly I hadn't and people that haven't been through it they just they find it hard they empathise greatly but they're worried about saying the wrong thing or putting their foot in it or and so sometimes that can be a bit awkward and jilted even though from my point of view I don't think you can say the wrong thing really it's you know it's not something that people should worry about

but definitely people have been through it before you've got a connection there and and that makes it easier to have probably more in-depth conversations doesn't it yeah you know it's sort of interesting you don't know how you're going to go until you go through it and hopefully a lot of people won't go through it. But, yeah, I think for me, personally, I have some amazing people in my life, and I think that makes a huge difference. You realize, you know, puts life in perspective, you realize what's important. And it is the people in your life.

All these other rubbish things we worry about on a daily basis are not important. And, you know, if you've got the good people in your life, you know, from my manager to my family to, you know, friends, they make a massive, massive difference. And, you know, in that respect, so I've been very lucky. It's interesting, Andrew said it's got a little bit easier, but the days would happen. I mean, where are you with all that process, Glenn? Well, you know, it's life. You know, like Andrews said, it doesn't matter how bad things get.

The sun comes up the next day and life goes on. And, you know, I think to have children actually gives you something to focus on. And kids are pretty resilient. And you say you focus on them, try to, you know, keep life as normal as possible for them and off they go. And if they're going well, it has a positive impact on you as well. So, yeah, I've been lucky enough to have met someone else and, you know, Sarah coming in to my life and my children's life's been incredible.

And, you know, we've got Madison, who's now three. But she's, yeah, she does a lot for the McGrath Foundation as well. And so, yeah, it's just, yeah, life, it's a funny thing. You don't know how you're going to react until you put in that situation. So, yeah, you know, I could come out and say, yeah, every day is great, but it's not. I just think everyone's got their own.

battles and challenges to face and it's how you pick yourself up how you carry on and the people you have in your life and you know that was my battle unfortunately strousy that's yours and you know everyone's got something they need to get up pick themselves up from and continue on do you still have days where you do flashback to jane um well the foundation means that uh she's always there james and holly um you know she's always there so it's yeah yeah you i'm not one who lives in the past too much. I try to live for now and sort of plan for the future. But what the foundation's achieving. So something out of something that was pretty horrendous, so much positives come out. So you try to look at it from that perspective. But yeah, it is what it is. And there are things

that sort of jilt memories and what have you. But, you know, you just get out there and try to do the best you can. And I always said, what helped me was thinking, if I'm not handling things and the kids are unhappy, I know one person who would be really unhappy with me and it would have been Jane. So that sort of got me, allowed me to pick myself up and to continue in life

and to have met someone else and to move to where we are now. So life is what it is. We all share the one thing in common that we've sat there when our wives have been diagnosed with cancer. I'll never forget that moment. And you can't really describe it, can you?

Can you remember, Andrew, when you... Yeah, Yeah, well, I remember it very vividly, yeah. And, you know, for us it wasn't so much, it wasn't just a diagnosis of cancer. It was that this is stage four cancer and therefore it's incurable. You knew that right away.

Yeah, and so, you know, the idea that, you know, a couple of weeks before Ruth had been absolutely fine and suddenly here she was, A, gravely ill and B, having to get our heads around the fact that her days are numbered. I mean, all our days are numbered. but in her sense they were very much numbered. Did you know actually that as well?

Well, we didn't know. We didn't know that, actually. And it could have been five years, it could have been three years, it could have been one year. But we knew that she was going to die of us cancer. And I think we all live in this little bubble that we just expect to live forever.

And I think those of us that have been with people that have battling cancer, you realize actually, this surrounds us everywhere you go and it's not just people who've got cancers people that have heart attacks and whatever and we seem to sort of isolate ourselves from it or not want to

it's not that we don't want to be involved we're not involved with it until you are and then when you're in the middle of it you're entering this this very strange world of scans and incredible anxiety and you know new terms you've never heard before

and relying on doctors who you know whose judgment you've got to you've got to trust it's it's a brutally tough journey isn't it and thankfully for a lot of people they come out the other side of it unfortunately you know there's still you know over 40% of people that can they get cancer don't come out the other side so um it's the battle with cancer is a long way from being finished let's put it that way did you know clenn i mean i think you and i have similar in that in that both wives were in remission Was Jane in remission, then it came back? Yeah.

And I'm in that position with Emma where she's in remission and we've got scans on Saturday again. As Andrew was saying, a horrible feeling of, you know, what's there. That's hard to deal with, isn't there? Yeah, and when it comes back, you think you've beaten it. Yeah, so, yeah, for Jane life was going along well. You know, six years, they say five years, you'd get past that five-year mark happy days.

And, you know, she had the recurrence. But to me, the worst part always was waiting for scans. You go for the scans, you're waiting for the results. You're in no man's land. You can't plan, you can't do anything. Whereas even if you find out it's bad, okay, this is what we have to do. You can focus and put your energy into it and off you go. When you're waiting, you don't know what's happening.

It's a horrible place. So, yeah, and we're a little bit different to Strassie where, you know, the doctors kept telling Jane, it was just going to be a chronic disease, something you're going to have to live with for a long time. And it was only up until the final two weeks where things got that bad that prior to that we thought we're going to beat this, we're going to beat this

and then bang, oh, we're in trouble. So, you know, it's... You've got to try to remain positive, but it's, yeah, it's not easy. No. But that must be that point where, in your case, Andrew, where you knew that actually the clock was ticking, that for all the optimism, for all the...

You know, you hear it all the time, don't you, you know, get out there and fight and all that stuff that you get, you know, you sort of get drumming. into you with a chemo and so on, but actually suddenly you know it's not going to end well. Yeah, and I think, you know, that term, the fight against cancer,

you've got to fight. I think it's an unhelpful one. You know, it's actually... Everyone fights. Yeah, but exactly, and it's actually medical sciences fight against cancer, and you're almost the sort of petri dish for that to happen. You know, I think there's so many people,

you've got to remain positive, you need to live your life, you've got to give it everything you've got. But at the same time, I think it's unhelpful to say to people that don't make it through well it's just because you didn't fight hard enough I think that's unhelpful but you know I think for us we had a number of treatment options that work

but all of the money worked for a short period of time and it was about sort of two or three months before Ruth died I think we became you know we were getting into the last line of treatment and that's where Ruth I think was incredible in the sense that she she should have became accepting of the fact this was going to happen. She was still fighting it, and she just said, listen, we need to prepare ourselves. And one thing that I want to do is I want to do death well. And that means I need to prepare myself for it. We need to get the kids prepared for it. We need to go and get some help

ourselves, some professional help, so that we can then enjoy the rest of the time we have together, knowing that we've done everything we can to prepare ourselves for what's to come our way. And that was a, that's an unusual attitude, I think. Yeah. And... You just want to shut up all those thoughts away. Yeah, exactly. It was confronting for me and, you know, even more so for her, but

it took great courage and bravery for her to go there. And I think we're far better off as a result of her having that courage and bravery to do that. Hence, why you've focused on bereavement counselling and preparation for the trust.

Yeah. Well, you know, I think what Ruth and I were both most petrified about was the effect this we're going to have on the kids. You know, the kids are your everything, aren't they? And the thought that, you know, you have these thoughts of the back of your mind that they're just not going to be able to deal with it

and they wouldn't be able to do school and you'd see all these behavioral changes. And so for us in particular, going to our counsellor Jenny Thomas, who was a child grief and lost counsellor and just explain the situation. And for her to actually say to us, listen, there's certain things you want to do,

do you know you don't want to lock it lock them away from this they need to be involved in it they need to understand what's going on you need to be open you need to be not afraid to cry in front of them and explain how you're feeling and that gives them permission to to say how they're feeling if you just do those things there's nothing preventing them having a really rich and full and happy life they're going to miss their mum terribly that's a given but this this won't be the end of them you know it's going to change their life but that doesn't mean they can't have a great life life and for Ruth to hear that it was just like the weight of the world came off her shoulders and for me also who you know getting my head around the idea of having to look after them going

forward it was a huge source of comfort for me as well how did you do it with the kids how did you tell them um well i mean that was by far the hardest thing to do you know i still remember it like yesterday taking the boys to one side and saying listen just come back from the hospital and the doctors have said we're going to have to say goodbye to mum soon and that's something you never want to have to do with your kids Is that what you've been advised to say How have you been told to say it?

Yeah, I think I had some advice But ultimately, you know, as a parent You've got to just tell the kids what's going to happen And then try and provide the right sort of support for them And allow them to go through where we were very fortunate is that Ruth was still very much herself right to the end. You know, she wasn't actually that unwell, which seems odd to say,

but she could speak, and she was recognisable as herself, which made it a bit easier for the kids because their memories of their mum are her being well and not really sick, which I think helps. Tough question, but I'll ask it anyway. were the kids there when she died? Did you think that was the right thing to do? Not right while she died.

They came and said goodbye to probably five or six hours afterwards. Sorry, prior to her dying. And that was their choice, actually. I gave them the choice whether they wanted to be there or not. And Ruth would have preferred them not to be there right at the end as well. But we had some great family time in the last couple of days. I mean it's still hard to think about I think that's the hardest thing of all

is at that moment where it all finishes and then you're like wow okay we need to find a way forward from here and from that point I mean did the counselling that you had did it in any way prepare you actually when the moment happened and the weeks and months after

could it actually prepare you for the shock and the pain and the grief of that It couldn't fully prepare me or the kids, but it meant we had a plan. So I knew what I had to try and do with the kids and what I had to try and avoid doing. And, you know, this is one of those circumstances where the British stiff upper lip

really doesn't work very well, you know, that idea of well. And there's so many people I've heard who said, listen, my mum died and my dad died, and we never spoke about it again ever as a family. And we just moved on. You know, that's unhelpful. and that means you don't process it properly. So I had a plan in place for what to do with the kids.

But you are in this new world. I mean, I often say there's like a life you've built for 21 years just comes crashing down completely, and then you've got to try and build something new from that. And I still don't know what it's going to look like for me. I mean, Glenn, you're further down the line now, so you have rebuilt, but it's a long process. It doesn't happen overnight.

Do you have the same sort of experience as I'm doing with... Very much. You know, just preparation to Strassie there brought back so many memories. You know, once we realized that was it, you know, three days out to tell James and Holly that mummy was going to pass away then. Was easily the hardest thing I've ever had to do. And just hearing Andrew there just takes you right back there. And then, you know, Jane was at home.

She part, we had a nurse at home sort of looking after it. And she passed away there. And, you know, the kids went up and they gave her kids, said goodbye as she left. the fact that we prepared them a little bit three days prior made that so much easier. But still telling them what was about to happen was worse than actually for me when it actually did happen. And I think Jane got that bad that it was probably a little bit

of a godsend in the end that she wasn't suffering anymore. And so, yeah, you know, those memories are always going to be there. But unfortunately, there's a lot of people that go through something very similar. And, you know, if we can make life a little bit easier in some way that, you know, McGrath Foundation plays, you know, it's about support, about awareness, you know, what Straussie's doing, sort of similar, a little bit different, but again, that support

and making life just a little bit easier in a pretty terrible time. Yeah, yeah. Why did you pick, let's talk about the foundation, you've got so much to share on that, but why have you chosen particularly the bereavement side of it, Andrew, for that? Well, I think what you're trying to do is

you look at your experience, and as we said before, this is you just don't know nothing of this world until you're in it and say well where the gaps that aren't adequately filled at the moment and there were two things that were glaringly obvious for us number one ruth had a rare form of lung cancer that people who've never smoked yet so by definition there's not much research into these they present very differently no one knows why people get them it tends to be younger people that get them and more women than men's and it seems to be on the increase as well so we need to understand more about

what's turning this on and also to try and diagnose it earlier most 90% of people are diagnosed at stage four it's too late so we need more no symptoms very few I mean the symptoms often come from the secondary tumors and that's why because the lungs have a lot of capacity so so the doctors need to you know This is an unknown territory. They don't know much about it. And we need a lot of research and sharing of knowledge to try and find a way of diagnosing and hopefully overcoming these rare forms of lung cancer.

And then the secondary, the bereavement support, you know, there is, the NHS provide some support for patients but not for their families. And you can, for very good reasons, they have limited resources. And then there's also support post- bereavement. A lot of charities do that, which is great. But the pre-breedment, I think, is your way of being potentially ahead of the game and proactive

and encouraging people to have those conversations. Husbands and wives have those conversations. Those difficult ones you really don't want to have. If you have them, you're in a better place for it, and you need professional help to do those properly. Did you get to the end of that conversation the first time you did it? Or was there a point, you know, let's come back to another time or something. And were you able to talk the whole thing through the first time you did sit down and talk about Ruth's death?

Well, I think, no, we didn't just talk the whole thing through, but I don't think we would have been able to talk it through in nearly such a coherent way without our counsellor being there with us. Oh, they were there at the same time. Yeah, I mean, she doesn't see, she wants to see the couple together. So she enables that conversation, and she gives you advice along the way. and most particularly she's focusing on the kids and kind of how to help them navigate their way through it.

But it's like all counselling, I think that it's a little bit of it can be a bit of a dirty word in the sense that people go, I don't need a counsellor, or you only go to a counsellor if you're really, really struggling. And the message that we're trying to do is like, these guys can really help. They can really help you at a terrible time in your life

where you've got so much going on, upstairs you've got so many practical things to deal with you i mean you think about it glen the the the funeral the memorial service and the the the wills and all that sort of stuff and to have someone that i can just check in with every three or four weeks just to go this is what's happened um and for her to go okay well that sounds great you might want to try x y and said it makes me feel in control at a time where i could easily be very much out of control yeah yeah and Glenn you I said that a nurse was with Jane, is that what gave you the thought of then the McGrath Foundation, the nursing? No, well, it was when Jane had the recurrence, all of a sudden there was a breast care nurse there,

and the difference that made in our lives, but especially Jane's, was incredible. We soon realized there was not enough of these amazing people out there. So we relaunched as the McGrath Foundation in 2005, so Jane was heavily involved in that. And it was at that time, Jane set it up with Tracy Bevan, Michael's wife at the time, and I was playing cricket. So for me to play cricket and be off on tour with the Australian team meant everything's going well at home. So that's what Jane wanted.

So basically they ran that. A lot of my sponsors were involved, and I did bits and pieces and media and what have you, but I was still focusing on playing cricket. and then when Jane passed away in 2008 that's when I sort of stepped up a lot more I became chairman and then you know been with heavily involved with the foundation ever since but it was Jane that was Jane's dream that every person every family going through breast cancer had access to a breast care nurse where they lived that's what she wanted and she had involvement in that and that's why you know she wanted to be the McGrath Foundation not the Jane McGrath Foundation but

that was her personal choice and off we went so we had very clear objectives and then you know it's sort of when jane passed away it just you know the support and and goodwill and from people was amazing so yeah that that makes me feel very proud but it's still there's a lot of there's a lot of work that goes into it and we've got an amazing team at the foundation the people behind you you still have to get out there and drive it and I think with with what we're doing looking to make a positive difference in people's lives and I speak to you know people every day and they tell me their story and the impact that the breast care nurses had and I think you know that's what it's all about but the problem there is everybody knows someone close to a mother friend or a family member

that's been through breast cancer or some form of cancer so it's very relatable um yeah by looking to provide support and hopefully improve the quality of life. It's not about quantity. It's about quality of life. And that's what they do. And I remember Jane was explaining in the simplest form what a breast care nurse allowed her to do. When she was first diagnosed, there was no nurse, there was nothing available. So she'd come home, have all these things going on in her head and jump on the internet. And there's so much information, so much misinformation. She'd get off feeling worse. And she was a mess. But having a breast care nurse there, or having that support, she could ask a thousand questions.

You know, what's coming out next? Why am I feeling like this? And the nurse had all the answers. It allowed her to come home and be a wife, a mother and, you know, a friend. And that was the most important thing. And it's just, that's the simplest view. It allowed her to be her. And, you know, if that's what a nurse can do to all these families

and having a supporting role can allow these people to go home and be themselves, you know, that's an amazing gift that you can give. someone. Yeah. We had a deal, no internet. Yeah. Good luck. Did you go on there? It's easier said than done. Did you resort and a Ruth resort to looking stuff up? I did, I did go on the internet occasionally, but I tended to, you know, it's such an unhealthy thing, isn't it? Because there's just so much stuff out there and it's not relevant to you. Every cancer is different. But that's where you rely on that team, that medical team looking after you. And the consultant is obviously, you know, they're there to give you the right treatments,

but the nurse is there to help you navigate your way through and answer the questions you may have once you've digested everything. And it's the same thing. It's having a support network, people that you trust that have been through this before, who can just help you through it and make it easier for you. Listen to Glenn and the amazing success of the McGrath Foundation. I mean, does that sort of, again, give you more resolve

to what we're going to enjoy tomorrow? Yeah, well, you know, I played in one of the McGrath Foundation days at Sydney and I was blown away. And I'll tell you what, I was blown away firstly by how willing everyone was to be a part of it. Not, you know, the players are very willing, but just everyone who turned up were determined to make this great spectacle. And then to understand how much actually, you know, both awareness and money comes out of it,

which actually then makes a difference to people's lives. I think that's a, you guys have paved away. It makes it easier for those of us that follow in that sense. But I hope we can just be, you know, it's year one for us. We're not expecting to be all singing or dancing in year one. But if we can just in some way replicate what they've done, then I'll be very happy. And I know that Ruth will be looking down, feeling very sort of honored, a bit embarrassed and very proud as well that we've been able to do something that really does make it different.

Yeah. How do you talk about the possibility? do you ever, like a Magrarday at a test match? Did you ever have that conversation on that? We didn't get that far actually, yeah. And I think Ruth would have gone, no, don't do that, please, you know,

it's not about me and not everything. And it's, this isn't about her, actually. This is about her experience and using it as a way to make something positive come out of the situation. And red? Why red? Red, mainly because it was Ruth's favourite colour, actually. And so when we designed,

the logos and everything. I mean, there's a lot that goes on to bringing a foundation together, but we wanted that to be a reflection of her. So the logo is her signature, and it's her favorite color. And I can just imagine it in my, you know, I can imagine laws tomorrow and just what it's going to look like with everyone turning up in red. It's going to be a magnificent spectacle.

How will you feel? I don't know how you felt. I mean, in some ways, it's going to be. to be, it's going to blow me away, it's going to be emotional, you know, we've got some really interesting stuff there, my kids are going to be there and family and whatever, so I'm going to, it's going to be a tough day, but a brilliant day as well. How did you find it? Because it was, it was about seven months after Jane passed away was that first pink test and, you know, we didn't know what to expect. And it was funny, we'd gone in and spoken to Channel 9, we had a few ideas

of what we thought was possible, which they shot down every single one of them. They said, yeah, it's great ideas but none of this is going to happen by day three everything we suggested was happening and it just it was incredible and it goes to show and to see everyone turn up in pink and just what's been created shows the generosity of people but it also shows the power of sport sport is something that crosses all boundaries and can really bring people together and you know that's what it's done back home hopefully you know lords is SCG my favorite ground the world Lord's very, very close second. So I'd love to see, you know, something very similar emulated there here at Lords.

I think that would be very, very special. And it goes to show the power of sport and the power of people when they get behind it. Yeah. Any tips for him? How he's going to handle the day tomorrow? Good luck. Yeah. Yeah, it's, yeah, just try to, you know, what you're saying about Ruth.

You know, Jane never wanted to be about her. it's about, you know, the support that you're providing and hopefully having a positive difference in other people's lives. So, you know, my kids were there, the family were there, and we just, I always thought, you know, it's more about a celebration of her life and the impact and legacy that she can leave, especially for James and Holly.

And, you know, every year they're there. You know, on day three, the players sign their baggy pink caps and come out, present them. as they walk out in the field. And Holly and James is there, and they're shaking the player's hands as they come out. So they're still involved. And my wife Sarah and Madison now

are sort of nearby as well. So it's about family. Has it become any easier for the kids at that moment? I think they're going along really well. I think, you know, again, they've had some good people. It hasn't always been easy, but they've got some good people in their life and the impact Sarah's had on them coming in.

she's been amazing and you know they love her to bits she loves and it's you know and having madison's brought our family closer together and all these things i thought were impossible when jane passed away just just said i'm never going to meet anyone else and i was adamant about it but you know everyone's different i've because the other thing is i've had a lot of people come up after their partners passed away and it's been a period of time and they've met someone else and the thing is about when's the right time and i tell them there is no right time it's up to the individual and you know who knows what's going to happen but but yeah you know that that what's being created there with the Sydney test it just gets

bigger and better every year you know it's nearly the whole test I thought after nine tests it would start sort of tapering or after a few it might start but it's just it's just getting bigger and better every year and it's now something actually very special on the on the Australian cricket calendar or Australian sport calendar that people right around around the country really get involved with and get behind. And, you know, that makes it so much special. And, you know, here in England there's, you know, the power of sport and the amount of people.

You get, you know, something, a commonality there. You can create something pretty special. Yeah. And I think the other point just to raise briefly is how many doors have been open for us. You know, this is the busiest summer of cricket ever in English cricket history. And we came in with this idea very late in the piece. So for the MCC and the ECB to just fully commit to it and say, throw precedent out of the window and go,

listen, yeah, we haven't done that before, but go on, we'll do this and we'll do that. It completely blows me away. And your point about the cricket family coming together and people wanting to help and be a part of it, it's just extraordinary. And hopefully what we will see on the day is a testament to all that hard work that people put in.

Yeah, I think it's about pride as well. I feel quite proud of that day and what's being created, you should feel an immense sense of pride as well because it is something pretty special. You both had to do it very publicly too, too. I mean, clearly you wouldn't have a foundation. I don't think unless you were Andrew Strauss and Glenn McGrath.

Well, Jane said it, didn't she be fair? I don't know, the role model side of it perhaps comes into that, don't you? I mean, you know, former England captain in cushy life everything's going in the other things of bed of roses and suddenly bang this can happen to anybody

yeah it's interesting I mean I think while Ruth was going through that cancer journey I think I felt a great need for us to do that quite privately actually you know I didn't want to necessarily be sharing every scan result with everyone or whatever I think now it's just

luckily enough I have a platform that I can use and and if I want people to talk about grief and be more open about it and then I need to role model that myself and I'm okay doing that you know I think it's fine as it actually helps me deal with things a bit as well and um you know I'm really am very I've got the bit between my teeth you know I want to make this foundation a success I want it to be a worthwhile legacy for Ruth and I want people to have a better life experience as a

result of it so hopefully we can get somewhere near there yeah and tomorrow I mean how are you going to engage with people do you know you're going out into the middle and how's it going to work yeah we've got we've got all sorts of things planned and i don't want to necessarily give it all away actually but um yeah look i'm going to be very obviously visible on the day and being doing various bits and pieces my kids are going to be involved and you know you will recognize quite a lot from what's happened at the sydney test match because they do it so well in terms of the caps and the kit and all that sort of thing. So it's going to be a full kind of schedule for me over the course of the day.

But it's, I just can't wait. I think it's going to be an amazing day. Again, I think what we all know is you'll have a lot, millions of people behind you, and we'll be thinking of you, cheering you on in a difficult time. Glenn, fantastic, the McGrath Foundation. How many nurses have you got out there now? So we've got 132 nurses at the moment out there. The Angol, we've done a bit of needs assessment, around about 247, 250 nurses.

There are other breast care nurses out there that do an amazing job, but that 247 McGrath nurses will cover the rest of the country, and we reckon in another three years we may be able to achieve that. But that's been amazing, but the thing I'm probably most proud of is we're now setting a new standard of cancer care in Australia, and that's something I'm proud of. We've got 11 metastatic breast care nurses, so when secondaries, when it metastasizes, and maybe that's an area where we can have an impact in other cancer streams as well.

But also if our learnings can have impact in people going through prostate or lung or whatever, then it's a massive win. So in that respect, setting the new standards, having a positive impact across everything. We get support from people right around the country, federal government support as well because they see the positive impact and the difference it's making in the health system too. So there's a lot of positives there. So I feel immensely proud of what we're achieving. But, yeah, it's not easy.

But yeah, if – and the way of you, also, we've been very lucky in what we've done in our life. To get out there and play cricket represent our country is something very special. You know, and to be lucky enough to have done that, it also gives us a bit of a profile and allows us to be in a stronger position than a lot of other people to be able to give back. And then if we come out, we're talking about it, it's something that we've been through and we're coming out and sharing our experience

that can also allow other people to talk about it. And if you just put it to the back in mind, don't say anything, it's horrendous. If you come out and talk about it and share your experience and realize there's help there, there's other people that have been through it, it makes a massive difference as well.

So, you know, that's one of the big differences you know, strah else he can make just by sharing his experience allows other people to think if he can do it, I can do it as well. Yeah. I just last with Andrew,

I mean, when will you know if the foundation's been a success? Especially with the bereavement side, which really interest me. I mean, how actually are you going to judge that? What are you looking to do with that? Yeah, I mean, so we, you know, it's such early days for us.

We haven't set targets. And where we're slightly different to the McGrath Foundation is we'll be handing out grants to charities that are really established. Otherwise, there's just too much infrastructure costs. And basically, we'll be replicating what other people are doing. So it's a case of us handing over the grants for a particular cause, you know, a charity saying we want to do X, Y or Z,

we hand over the grant, and then we obviously will check in with them to see that they're doing what they said they would do. But again, we're always just looking for gaps. support services where they aren't currently support services and so it's about plugging those many many holes that are out there people just have no access to this stuff good luck tomorrow andrew can I just ask you one question

I mean you're not a man that's well known for your dress sense but have you been giving some thought about what you're going to be wearing you know I actually when I got the thing of the business about tomorrow I actually had to go to my wardrobe I don't have a red shirt I mean I don't I haven't got one I've had to order one Well, you didn't have pink shirt before you came out to... No, no, no, no. Now you've got several...

I'm proud to wear pink now, and I'll be proud to wear red. Very good, thank you. You've woken my fashion awareness. We'll be cheering you on tomorrow. Thank you. Cheers. Good luck, man.