Test Match Special - Antigua Cricket Knights

Episode Date: July 19, 2024

Daniel Norcross gathers together four legendary West Indies players who have all been Knighted for their services to cricket and who all come from the same island.Antigua may be only 14 miles long and just 11 miles wide, with a population 550 times smaller than the UK – but it has produced an incredible number of great cricketers. Norcross has been speaking to Sir Andy Roberts, Sir Richie Richardson, Sir Curtly Ambrose and Sir Viv Richards.

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from BBC Radio 5 Live. I'm absolutely delighted to say that I am joined by four Antiguan nights, four of the greatest players ever to have played cricket, and they've got some extraordinary memories, obviously of playing in England, almost all of them victorious. Away to my far right, Sir Andy Roberts, the first Antiguan ever to play test cricket. Next to me, Sir Viv Richards.

There's an awful lot to talk about there. So, Curly Ambrose, both severe vats and currently have been on test back special, veterans of that, and another former captain Sir Ritchie Richardson. All of them, knights of the realm, all of them with incredible stories to tell. But I want to start with you, Sir Andy, because you were the first Antiguan to play test cricket, and that must have been quite a thing, quite a thing for Antigua. Yes, it was. got a call late one night

that I have to go to Barbados in the very next morning to play and I had some disuse because I fly through Barbados the day before only to be told the night that I had to fly back to

Barbados that's not very helpful is it that's not how you want your test career to start I wouldn't have thought well it started one way and it's hard end a different way. So I must say that I enjoy all the years

that I've played. And how did that debut go? The match ended in a draw, but it wasn't satisfying to me because the very next game I lost my place in a team and was set home. Only

two days after reaching home to fly to England to play for Hampshire. It sounds to me like you had English-style selectors in those days. People already gave you one game. You really hit the name on the head. We certainly had guys, you know, who I can remember my first match as well, going to India.

And you had a commentator. I failed in the very first test match. And there was a commentator who wanted my head. So I think it was pretty much prevalent at that time, you know. Because of where we came from. because we were from the smaller islands who had a hard time making and staying on the West Indies thing.

So that would be a thing with it. That stage in West Indies cricket, most players would have been from Guyana, Jamaica, a big four, as you would call it. Not most. Not most all. Oh. So you guys were pioneers,

but you were also, you were doing this for your country. And, I mean, what did that mean to you? When you found out that Andy had got selected, did that like instantly spark something in you? Well, apparently, I think he was pretty much kind enough. When he got selected, I was in a bingo all that night, having a few jazz. And he came in, and he was quite courteous. He said, we've had been selected to go to Barbados, because most times we would have spent each time together, we would have been to half go over together. So we did a lot of things together.

as players. So that was quite kind of him to tell me of his selection, rather than hearing it on the news. And I can immediately then said, I'm going to be the second. And it did come through. And how much later was that? Just about it? Yeah, a couple of years after. Less? It takes like months. Months, okay. That's very mind. Well, yeah, because then, if we go forward just a little bit,

you both had in Australia and you may think this is a you know we're talking about England here but that series it seems to me was a really important one for the development of West Indian cricket because you're going out and you're playing against the likes of Lily and Thompson and they'd come after

England just a year before come at the wind pace and you guys you were still selecting spinners someone like to say Albert Padmore I guess would have been in around the team Lance Gibbs Lance Gibbs and a great bowler that he was well record hole

but the experience of playing in Australia and losing seemed to me to be a catalyst for change in West Indies cricket. Would that be fair? That sort of hardened us. We became hardened then. I remember after the Australian series, we went home and we played against India. And at the end of the only knew what happened after that.

We went to England and we later was three zip. So we were on a roll. And I've always felt that, And when you go to Australia, that's your baptism. We were humiliated in that particular series. And after that series, we felt that we could be better. And certainly, we became better. Well, it's then you pick the strength of West Indies cricket.

I mean, notwithstanding the strength of the batting side, but the bowlers, and I think in 76, of Wayne Daniel, of Andy Roberts, Michael holding, and sort of towards the back end Van Bern holders. So, and supplementing with Collis King, we've got five pretty brisk bowlers in that lineup. So that was, was that a conscious choice to say, let's go with that strength? I remember Clive, who I used to spend a little time with, and we were having a drink one night in the Sydney Bar, Players Bar,

and he said, Viv, the only way we are going to compete, we need to have some guys who are express, like the Dennis Lillies and the Jeff Thompson. And we found them, spearheaded by the man here. Then Michael Holden came. And after that, there's just a string of great fastballers and not Antiguan and Barbier than to your left. He came and did his thing as well. So we were on a roll.

So, Curtley, were you aware of like 1976? Because you came to cricket a little bit later, didn't you, in life? So I'm imagining Richie might have been keeping his eye on that series. It was such an iconic series because of, for a start, what Tony Gregg had said for the exploits of Viv and Andy and Michael. Were you keeping a close eye on things? Well, I had no choice. My mother was a cricket fanatic. You know, so she kept listening to all the communities all over the world when the rest things were playing.

So I had no choice. So I knew exactly what was going on. And I knew that we got some blows in Australia. So that is why when I played against him a few years later, I ditched you. I dished it out. Revenge. Sort of. Richie, were you keeping abreast of this?

Yeah, most certainly. I've been following Westerners cricket since I was a young boy. And I've always had aspirations to play for the West Indies even before Survivance and they played. And when they eventually got picked to play for the Westerners, I said to myself, well, there's an opportunity because there were lots of insularity in the region where people back there thought only the players

some of the larger islands could play. Now, we knew we could play. And the matter of fact, we believe, and if you speak to some of these guys, they'll tell you that they're guys who have played for Antigua, who, if given the opportunity, probably could have played for the Westerns as well. So when these guys made it, I said,

good, I have a chance here. And I started digging even deeper. That series in Australia where Western is lost, 5-1. Didn't see it live, because we didn't have television back then. I saw replays in black and white. I used to go down by my aunt and every night and watch it. And I was really hurt.

When I saw Lily and Tomo hitting all batters and you were seeing blood at the crease and all the kind of stuff, all those things energize me and motivated me. And I kept in to myself, I want to meet these guys one day. I worry too. And I didn't get a chance against Lily because when I got selected for the West Indies, he had just played the series before.

Tomol was still playing, but he was out of the team. And then he decided he was going to make a comeback. One series we were doing down there and we played against Queensland and he was playing for Queensland. So I remember when we turned up into Australia, Rod Marsh made a statement in the paper

said the only way that Australia are going to beat the Wendy's is to knock their so-and-so head off or when you use the adjective. You know, and as a young boy now, I'm saying, that, you know, that's what I like. You know, from Antigua, we play tough cricket. We are very competitive.

If you play village cricket, league cricket back home, it's highly competitive. You know, so the sort of things that motivate us, if somebody said that they going to kill you come let's go try and kill me and i'm going to try and get the best the best of you so after that match um there was no thompson he never made a comeback after he um tried to bump me out you know he um put him out of the brawl a few times but i've always followed the western this a series in england when tony gregg said he was going to let the team grover i mean i was also

i wasn't playing then of course but um i was also hurt and um the guys responded in a very positive way like we normally would do you know you can't do this kind of things about about us You know, we play hard, we play fear, but don't try to embarrass us and don't try to make us look smart, you know, because we will dig deep and let you feel the pain. I mean, that was Andy a catastrophically daft thing for Tony Gregg to have said, wasn't it? But it also came with a kind of... No, no, no, that was an encouragement.

Encouragement to you. But it was also, but it felt wrong. I mean, coming from a South African man, there were other connotations within that, And it seemed to work as a very strong incentive. And by the time we get to the Oval, in fairness to Tony, he did actually grovel himself, didn't he? I'm going to tell you exactly what happened in that particular match or series.

We were all getting prepared for a team meeting that night. And ITV news came on. I think normally 545 you'll get the news. Wow, here's Tony Gregg in the South African accents, you know, saying one on what. He's going to make the rest of his team groveled. And I can remember we all watched. And there wasn't any need for us to have a meeting after that. There wasn't any need.

You know, we all watched that Tony Greggen what he said. And I said that was it. He sealed it. He definitely sealed it. I may God bless his soul, he's no longer with us. But at the end of the day, I think he was trying to motivate his team as best as he record, but it never worked. It never worked. It really didn't. And it wasn't just, you know, moments in that series. There was absolute dominance. You know, you in partnership, Andy, with

Michael Holding, obviously when I think of the Oval Test, that was mostly Mikey, but then you had incredible moments at Old Trafford, Trent Bridge. We've got some great scenes that we could remember, if you know, Brian close coming out to Baton. Let me say this. Churnbridge was an inspiration to us. Because we batted first. They've got a double hundred. And I need no introduction to Tony Gregg.

Because when he came into bat, I was bowling. So everything started from Chentbridge. And every time Tony Gregg comes out, even though any of the fast bowlers had bowled, a ten over spell once he walked on the field coming out with Vibus

that I tell you something what he said I don't think he had the place to back it up yeah and they suffered a favorite

yeah you know well in fairness we're recording here at Eddingley and he he did get I'm not going to say

he got his own back he had one good innings here with Alan not when he's called 116 but really England were

would decimate throughout and I just want to come to the end of that series before we move on because we've got 291 there was the very first test match I watched as a child live and it was the end of a scorching summer and it was the end of a series it was it would rubber-stamped the dominance what are your memories of that 291 what I can remember for sure I didn't get the 300 okay the same guy who authors don't particularly sentiment about making the rest of his team Grover got me out

I wasn't too pleased about that so you scored 291 and it's the same boy who said what he said got me out I think I got it inside edge and being bold I wasn't pleased wasn't pleased you would feel satisfied enough

scoring 291 but wow I just wanted to suffer some more So look, we got to the end of 76, and two Antigans have got in the side. And Andy, you were the 149 West Indian. Oh, you were the 151st, Pip. After that, there's a whole load. There's Eldine Baptiste. There's Winston Benjamin.

There's Kenny Benjamin. There's the two gentlemen to why I left, Kurtly, and Ritchie. They have others. This is, and they will, yeah. They know they see they have others, Alzari, Joseph. Yep, Dave, Joseph, Woodley Jacobs. So this is, I'm thinking about this space of time. Suddenly, there's a lot of players from Antigua getting recognition.

So, Richie, do you think, and well, I'll ask currently first, was that because of what Richard was saying earlier, that, you know, Antigans could very well have been selected for the West Indies, they've been overlooked. And now a couple of guys have come in, they've had massive stellar series that have proved something for the nation. and now, like, the damas burst. Yeah, I remember hearing the late grades of Frank Warrell

said that, you know, in time to come, you'll have to look at the smaller islands for the cricketers for West Indies. And I'm quite sure many laughed at him, but he probably was a prophet because that happened. And once Sir Andy made that initial breakthrough, followed by Servive, and then many of us are after. And when you look back at the glory years of West Indies cricket,

the dominant years, you know, and I'm proud to say this, they had Antigans on that team on a consistent basis that helped the team to be so dominant. And I'm very, very proud to say that. The TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live. How did it happen that an island nation of 90,000 people? I am from somewhere in London called Tooting And before I saw you today

I know, it's a silly name Before I came to see you today I thought I'm going to Google Just to see how many test cricketers have come from Tooting And I can tell you The answer is none One of them has died in Tooting Patsy Hendren

He was a very good player But I don't think Tooting can lay claim to him You can say you have broadcasters Yeah we've got broadcasts Those who can do those who can't broadcast. So, I mean, like, tooting is around about 90,000 people.

Antigia, I've got you for, and we've just done a roll call of honor. How come? We're warriors, man. We love to fight. We love a challenge. And people refer to us as a small island. We don't see ourselves as that.

We see ourselves as people with big hearts who are always willing, are ready and willing to take on the world. anything. And as I said before, you go on, you, there's some guys that I've played with back home in the leagues. I mean, and I thought that if they had given, they were given the opportunity, they would have been there before me, like big heart. And they're always prepared to fight and fight and they never wanted to lose. And I think that's just something about Antigans and Barbudans. And that's why we have really come to the fore. Once we've given the opportunity,

we've got to excel. Sorry. If you check the history, Westernish cricket, we were called calypso cricket. And calypso means you play very well, but you end up losing. From the time the Antigans went on the team, it brought a totally different permission to the team. Because they find people now come with heart who never gives up. And we want to make sure that West Indies owe its glory days to the Antingans. Because it was the beginning of Antigans entering to Test cricket

when West Indies start to win and win constantly. How is cricket currently in Antiguan now? Because what we've been describing here is what must have been a really incredible moment for the island. You know, all the players are tough at Bornby around here. What state is it in at the moment cricket in Antigua? Cricket is still very popular. A lot of young cricketers are playing. You know, I've got to be honest that the standard at the moment

isn't as high as it used to be, but there's still a lot of cricket being played and I'm quite sure that as Antigas and Barbulans, we are loaded with talent. in big heart, you know, the will to win, the will to succeed. You know, so we will soon see resurgence, you know, in Antigua cricket for starters and into Westerners cricket. And like I said before, once you have Antigas, you know, Westerners line up, you're going

to be okay. Now let me take you back a bit, so I'm jumping around a little bit, but, so I'm thinking about the late 70s and early 80s. So it's not a coincidence you've got all these players coming together because you're playing against each other as well, presumably. So the club's seen in Antigua, you're playing at a really high standard here. I guess like someone like Barbados may be equivalent with...

That's a test match. Barbados versus the leave with Ireland. Yeah? It is a test match. And certainly the crowd that attends says that. You know, it's because you have the Bayans at the time, they had all the quicks of some. you know, and the Georgianas, the Malcolm Marshall, the Sylvester, Clarks,

and they had an awesome lineup, but we only had a few who took care of business. But, I mean, the standard, therefore, that you guys would have been playing in, not just inter-Ireland, but even on Antigua itself, as you were kind of developing your skills must have been pretty high. Boat River myself plays for a club called Rising Sun. When we go back from County Cricket, whenever it's in Sunnis playing against St. John's, it's like a test match.

You're people all along the world all over watching cricket. And I don't think it happened today because the guys who so-called stars, when they go back, they don't take part in domestic cricket on a regular basis. So, Andy, would you a ball against Ritchie? No, never played against Ritchie. when I stop playing cricket, which is just coming in.

And, Kelly, do you ever bowl at Viv? In country cricket. But not in anti-year. Not locally, no. I mean, those guys weren't around that much, you know, traveling, toes, Weston. I played against Richie once in local cricket before I made a wrestling team,

and I know what is capable of. So I played against him in a one-day game. Do you try a bit harder? Well, I bowled in two bouncers. and he ducked. And that to me was a win-win. Because we know savagery was as a hooker. I was setting him up, you know?

So he worked two bosses and he ducked. I said, oh what? Mission accomplished. I got the great Richard duck. I'm good. Competition back in those days were really, really tough. You know, I remember when I made the West Indies team first and I came back from a tour, I went to represent my village sweets. And in my mind, I figured I'm an international cricketer.

I have nothing to prove at this level so I've gone to ambling and a very very good friend of mine told me no no as an international cricketer you have to be a cut above the rest if someone watching a game and they don't know who you are

they must see something a little bit different and I said but I have nothing to prove he said no these guys breed upon you it's not going to look good and right away I say you know what for me this is international cricket so I'd have given everything I've got you know it's a pride thing as well

now you came into the cricket sea we alluded to this a little bit later the next of the four of you to get selected for the West Indies is Richie and your first tour is out in India and Andy's on that tour you'd have been on that tour yep so there were three

Antigans now Eldon Albertiste four Antigans in the team but you're pretty young you're pretty raw that must have been a real help, wasn't it?

To have the likes of Andy and the Of course. I mean, first of all, it was a cultural shock for me in my first to do in India where it's,

everything is totally different. The food, the culture, the wickets. The wickets were, I've never seen anything like that before. So I had to work hard

and it was tough. And of course, I got tremendous support from these two gentlemen and other senior players as well because it was a team. There was a cohesive force

within the team. And it wasn't easy. Even though we won, we had to work even harder. So everybody would help each other, spending more times with, in the net, longer times in the net, with each other. If I have a fault, survive or douche, or somebody would come to me, say, well, like, you're doing this wrong, you're doing this, you know, whatever. So I really enjoyed my first two after the first couple of weeks, where I had to overcome the delibelly as well. I quickly got back into my strides and started working really hard.

I played one test match, and I got out for a duck, or get LBW off the face of the bat. So I said to myself, well, this is going to be tough. I told myself, welcome to test cricket. Because I could not believe that I played the ball off the face of the bat. I don't know if I give you out of you. Actually, no future umpires were around with him. No. Yeah, but it was tough.

And it was a learning experience for me because it was tough. It was a good baptism for me. But within a year, the West Indies are back in England. And this is a really significant moment in the story of West Indies cricket. Because it's, you're sort of not quite. Halfway through the period of dominance, but you're very close to it, don't it? If we take 76 to 95, 1984, that team wins 5-0. And a lot of people call that the blackwash.

But Viv, you call that the whitewash, don't you? And the blackwash is the... Rather than the black-to-back stuff. I think it's fair to say we whitewash you in England and we blackwash you in the island that we were born. Ten matches out of ten, but I want to focus on the English ones. It's extraordinary. Yeah, but yeah, but I tell us something, you know, that was 84, then 86.

And in 1988, when we came back to England, that was my first tour, the first game at Chenbid was John because of rain. And you know the English press, England are finally ready for the West Indies, you know, and they lost 4-0. So it's 14-0 in 15 tests. Well, I think about two days lost it. That trip to bridge death, it was hopefully. But at 84, there are some incredible performances.

I want to ask you about your memories of the Lord's test. I mean, I didn't think that's weird because it was Gordon Greenwich's double hundred. But that seemed to me to be symptomatic of your team's complete dominance. That David Gow was captain, yeah, and I think he, the famous declaration, 300 odd to win.

In less than a day. But you guys didn't just win it. that you won with like an hour to spare. The only way to four was a runout, wasn't it? I think who was it? I think Larry Gomes are, Larry, I got some runs as well. And I was ever so happy. I took a bit of pleasure in just sitting on that balcony

and watching the boys do the business, man. It was especially because of the decoration. Whenever you declare, you expect that you're going to make some inroads and do well. but when you lose, I think the press really gave it to David in the end. Well, I think it was a nine-wicket win, wasn't it? Yes, nine-weeks win, and the one wicked to fall wasn't to a bowler. And that, you could just sort of feel the energy come out of England

and the realization of the mountain to climb. So I wanted to ask you about that team, because you saw so much of this period from 76 to 91, and you guys still in the rest of the details. to the end of that period. Was 84 to 86, were that the apex of this team? Or is it really, you know, one continuous period of dominance? You can't really choose between.

I let the analysis handle that. No, I would want it for the first part. 84, I was out of it. So you will have to, you know, share that responsibility. Oh, my God. That's a hard question. I think it's a hard question. question in another way. When did you feel most absolutely certain of victory?

But when we get to 91 and 95, England weirdly fight back a bit. Well, I tell you something, even the Graham Gooch period, I think Graham brought a sort of culture to some of the team members of his team that they can achieve things. And somewhat the series started to get a little closer rather than the wide margin of wins that we would have had. The series started to get a little closer. There were times when I think one of my tours here, we lost our very first test match here at Hedinley,

and it was a rainy sort of a season. And we were struggling wonder whether or not. I think it could have been my last series. 91? Yeah, we all feel saying, wow, England looks like I wanted maybe to have a clean sheet, and the rain sort of interrupted that, particular process. But at the end of the day, we had some play, and we were able to level the series. And I think England, we went two and up. England came back at the Oval and won that

particular test match. And because of the nonsense that I believe went on the series before when we had Australia in the Caribbean, a two-two victory was just perfect for us. Why I say this because I analyze maybe Premier League football. And Premier League for football, a team goes away from home. You never hear them speak loudly about winning. If I come back with a draw, I'm okay. So we're pretty happy with that particular draw away from home. Well, England still hadn't been you. And your first tour, currently, was in 1988. You're part of that 4-0. That was a really dominant performance again. And England seemed to be in disarray.

I mean, in multiple captains. That was, yeah, I can remember you almost had a captain for every match. Your memory was captain here one, wasn't he? Yeah. You know, like Graham Gooch and what have you. So, you know, there was an awful lot of that happening. But you, I want to get you to give us your memories of here at Heading League because you took a five for here.

And I know it's a game that you guys lost, but really Graham Gooch won it rather than you lost it because he played one of the greatest innings in Test history. Yeah, yeah, that was in 1991. Got 150 or something. 150, not allowed it's on the board. You know, played extremely well against a great

Westernese attack. You know, have to give him credit. You know, he was the one responsible for them getting over the line. You know, I never always well, a few games I've played here at Heardingly. The wickets were always a bit bowler friendly, which makes that knock so much more

special because the boy was doing a lot and he stuck around nobody else really were in the fight you know so that was a great that from him and he was the difference with them winning it but you played a lot of cricket in England I mean this is the thing that we've got to remember is we keep talking about you guys playing cricket test cricket but how did he play for Hampshire they've played for Somerset Glamorgan Somerset Glamorgan Somerset Glamorgan Somerset Glamorgan um richston richard rishden Yeah. I've curly north pants.

Ritchie, when we're at Edingley, you played here. So your memories of cricket in England are not just test matches. How much did the fact that you Viv and Andy, you played in England? A fair bit before you came to play England, if you know what I mean. Was that a help?

No, I can tell you, let me answer that. I can tell you that we left home a diamond in the rough. So what I think we needed at the time for us to play lots more cricket because as Richie you would have heard mention earlier we are talented a lot of people and we just needed an opportunity and given an opportunity to come to England

it's the mecca of cricket lords and all the famous names that you hear about the game in itself and to be given an opportunity to come here it's just basically to polish up that diamond or the diamonds in the rough and certainly that was basically happened. Well, I was a fast bowl before coming to England.

But in England, I learned how to bowl. And I would say the art of fast bowling, England, and in those days with the uncovered pitches, that is what taught me how to bowl, because I realized if you hit the ball in the ground, it's going to bring mud. so you have to learn to do something with the ball and I learned that in that scene in Southampton

I asked you Viv the other day about one of your happiest innings and I was kind of expecting you to say 230 odd that we've talked about in 76 the 291 or the 189 in the one day game batting with Mikey but actually you said playing for Somerset

and winning Somerset's first trophy How much that match. After you've been, well, that's just one particular half and maybe of satisfaction. Somerset never won nothing in 170 years, I guess, of competing.

So, and to have maybe two guys from the Caribbean helped in accomplishing that, I felt that was a milestone I saw in a big way.