Test Match Special - Ashes Daily: Ball of the century - 30 years on

Episode Date: July 22, 2023

Jonathan Agnew, Mike Gatting, Mark Taylor, Glenn McGrath, Michael Vaughan & Isa Guha look back on *that* ball from Shane Warne, and share stories of the late Australian. Hear the moment Mike Gatting faced a recreation of the ball from a bowling machine and former Australia captain Mark Taylor finally apologises to Jonathan Agnew for blocking his view of the ball.

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It's 30 years, can you believe it, since one of the most famous moments in the ashes took place here at Old Trafford. And back in 1993, the great Shane Warn came on to bowl here at this ground, and as I say, the rest is history. As far as this is the moment, we put forward to this. This is the moment we've been waiting for. Shane Warn coming on and taking off his floppy hat to reveal a shock of blonde hair. It was the first test of the Ashes series, 1993. An earring in one year as well.

Australia had only managed 289 and we... I haven't got a ponytail, though. That all was going to plan. That first innings at Old Trafford. Then Mervues and his handlebar mustache dismissed Porthard. He hasn't got a pointer, he's got these new shaved jobs, a number two or three razor around the back and rather more hair on top.

I knew that I had little cause to fear their young legs spinner. I just wonder, Trevor, there must be, I would think, a little bit of pressure on young Warn's shoulders here because he'll know that his team are expecting him to come on and take some wickets here, or at least turn the ball. Well, if he doesn't turn the ball, then England will have a very good time indeed.

At first the ball looks straight enough. Shane Warren. I had it. In my sights Off only two or three paces But such was its rotation That it swerved out to the right See bowls and

I thought Well that's a leg break That's easily defended So I stuck my left leg out And jammed my bat against it Gatting is taken on the pace Bowls It span obscenely

And out of the rough it jumped Veered back across my batten pad Clipping my off-stom Well, Gatting's still standing there He can't believe it But that must have turned A very long way We haven't got a view of this

But it took his off-stump Gatting can't believe it It was chiggery-pokery trickery chokery How did he open me up That is Shane Morn's first delivery In a test match in England Mike Gatting is still walking off now Shaking his head, he has can't believe it at all

Bold for four Who is this nobody making me look of a foo Like an accident prone Badooom da-boom Tossed up and pitches around about Outside the leg stump And turns absolutely That turns feet

And it's taken the top of the off stump That was an absolutely beautiful delivery Well he's got a huge smile on his face If it had been a cheese roll It would never have got past me That's unplayable It was jiggery, pokerry, trickery

Jokery How did he open me up And that I'm sure, we'll send a shockwave right through the England dressing room because that didn't pitch in the rough, that turned off the pitch. It might as well of be holding a cob of corn. Jiggery, burglary, who is there nobody making me look so forlorn? I hate Shane Ward. That was a glorious ball.

It was the perfect leg break. First ball in an Ashes series to do it, I looked back at and say, yes, it was a fluke, but I think it was meant to be. And it did change my life. There was this, I was 22 or 20. 23 years of age and I didn't know how to cope with the attention off the field

like I'd walk out of the hotel and the whole team would walk out but there'd be 20 photographers taking pictures of me there's go Shane Warren speaking about his ball of the century and it's so sad it's not here for the 30th anniversary

of that moment and before that you heard music from the music group the Duckworth Lewis Method with their song jiggery and let's give Trevor Bailey a mention there as well Jaffa

chose his work very carefully, did Trevor, and I think he summed it up perfectly. We couldn't see it. It was an extraordinary moment. So 30 years on, Mike Gatting is back here at Old Trafford. He's going to be attempting to play that ball again as a simulator. Here at the ground, we can have a go at facing exact replicas of famous deliveries, including that ball from Shane Warren. I've been talking to Gatt

about a moment that he's been asked about, as you can imagine, quite a few times before. Many times, and I have to say, I He only watched it just recently for the first time for a long time, but it seemed a pretty decent ball. And it was one of those things that you're thinking about many things at that time of the proceedings, but we'd never seen Warnie before.

So, you know, it was just quite an interesting sort of concept just before lunch scene somebody you've never seen bold before. And when you do see it then, like the other day on the telly, are you trying to play it again in your mind? A little bit, yeah, because, you know, we often talk. himself and Warnie and actually heels as well behind the stumps because he had just as difficult a job as I did trying to get hold of it I would have done I suspect but no I mean I just remember this guy coming on it was a

it was just before lunch and Gucci said let's make sure here at lunch still get and I said okay fun so I was just thinking about playing out the over and you know the guy at the other end was so he told me was you know when when A.B. asked him the bowl you just said make sure he pitched up and bowl it straight don't give them any room and so I was expecting it somewhere in the region you never know somebody's first ball in Ash's history

might have been nervous but it didn't look like it when it came down it really came out of his hand fizzing and it was really the last two or three yards when because it was spinning so much that it actually really dipped in quite quickly so from me thinking about actually defending the slip area I was thinking about

crikey all of a sudden I'm thinking it might borrow around my legs and so you know you make those because it's coming through there slow enough you can you sort of can make that decision but the last three yards all of a sudden it was a oh I better look at something else here and that's what happened and so instead of doing it the way I was going to do it which is defend slip I'm now defending my leg stump and a combination of drift spin but also the pace of it it it wasn't a slow ball was

he didn't flight it no he didn't I mean he literally said when we talked about it he tried to get it down the end as quick as he could and as full as he could and as much spin on it as he could and he'd just let the wicket dictate what happened and I mean had it gone straight on it would have been a very poor ball because it would have gone down there and it wouldn't have made a difference but because it spun and spun so much and it would have had to pitch somewhere in that same area to actually hit the top of the off bail and spin that much it couldn't have I mean it must have been you know just the smallest spot on the pitch ever outside leg stump and you know it turned up it remember it's day two is

It's only lunchtime, just for lunchtime day two. And it spun that much, and I'm going, hmm, well, what do you do? And then, you know, when I've missed it, because I didn't hear the ball hit the stumps. And therefore, the first thing I heard was Ian Healy asking me to leave politely, as politely as they do in those. And so, you know, I sort of looking and thinking, one bail on the floor when I look around. And I thought, well, Ian Healy must have just, you know. And then I heard Heels ask me to leave again.

And I looked down the other end. Dickie was up there. shaking his and he looked at square leg and square legs sort of went like that and that was it off I went

and yeah I upset the captain as well by getting that just before lunch But it's a funny one because Graham Hickard gave him a real

pasting in a match before at Worcester he was relatively unknown wasn't he? I mean how much had you seen of Imbollah if at all I mean these days

there have been loads of videos and analysis and so on for you to have seen of this new young wristband but what did you have then back in the day? Well we had nothing

we saw a couple of old video clips of I think a couple of test matches he played in the West Indies I think and maybe one in India played a test match or two and that was about it but I mean I know for a fact now that you know A.B said to Warnie in the Worcester match

just bowl leg breaks, don't bowl anything else but you know even to this day you know you just sort of you know you like and you sort of give yourself a chance to have a look at the first ball don't you normally it's what your master used to tell you have a look see what the pitchers

do and see if it's pinning see if it's turning see if it's bouncing. All those sort of things and the fact that I was in a very sort of let's get to lunch mode as opposed to let's get after this young man. But it was in such a good place and it did swing in quite late and, you know, I'm not sure even if I was in how you would play that because I never got that far. I remember turning up next day and you were out there in the middle with the grounds were in a tape measure.

You're sort of measuring out where it had come from and the amount that it had drifted initially. That was the main thing, wasn't it? And then, is there any way you could have played it? I mean, really, you must have analysed it so many times. You must have gone to bed that night thinking about it and probably from every day since then. I'm not sure I went to bed thinking about it. I have to say, I couldn't do anything about it.

Once I'd watch it on the TV, I thought, well, there's not really much I could do about that. In that situation, having been the first ball ever, that he'd bowled and the timing of it. And now, having seen it, and I know which way it's going, it's going to be a little bit easy to defend the stumps, because I know it's not going to ball me around my legs now, which was what I was worried about. So, you know, for me, it would be very interesting to still see whether or not I can actually get a bat on it

because it did spin quite quickly and it did spin quite a long way. So that's going to be quite interesting this afternoon having not picked up a bat for a little while. It will be. I'm looking forward to getting the results of that, Michael. As far as you and Shane were concerned, did you talk about it much? I mean, you see Mike Hatherton and Glenn McGraar

who had a big hold over Mike, and this sort of, Michael sort of goes around past him quickly. What was your relationship with Shane? like because i guess he wouldn't have known him before then no not really i mean you know the fact is the man's man is you know sadly not with us anymore and you know the the amount of joy and the amount of inspiration he's given both grown-ups and old you know older well the younger guys as well um and all the all the things he's done when he's commentated he's really you know made the game enjoyable he wanted the game to be funny wanted people to understand it and come and watch it and

make it the best it can be so you know for me warning when we sort of sat down and and talked about it, he just kept saying, he said, mate, he said, you know, just try to get it down the other end and spin it as hard as I could, mate, and he said, you're just a bit unlucky, he said that it was. And that was really what it was. Now, after that, you know,

we know how great a bowlery would be, and, you know, people will say at this point in history is probably the greatest of all time. And the fact is that, you know, he learned his trade over the time. So maybe, as we saw on a number of occasions, he did get the ball in the right place to a lot of people

way. So, you know, that particular ball, I'll just take it that it was one of those balls that you get bowled occasionally, like something like Glenn McGrath, who's, you know, bowls it quicker, so you can't do much about it, you know, if he pitches, middle hits the top of off, you can't be much about it. You know, with a spinning you think you can adjust, but it just fizzed. It really, that's all I can say, it fizzed, and it turned quickly, and it bounced, and and it just hit the top of the off-plane. Now, this challenge then you're doing shortly, Mike, tell us about it because it does involve

facing the ball of the centre, isn't it? But do you know when it's going to come? Well, I don't know. I've been told I've got six balls, so I'm hoping to have a few throw-downs first because I haven't picked up a bat for five years, so we'll have to see, but the nice thing is they're going to give me £1,000 for each run I get.

Now, I don't know who's actually scoring this, but I believe the computer's got scoring areas. So I've got six balls to face Now I hope the first one is going to be the ball of the century Because my eyes aren't quite as good as they used to be So picking the wrong or the topy Might be slightly more difficult than it used to be But we'll see

But if it's first one ball of the century Then I've got a chance And I'm sure that one won't bowl me What are you going to do? Pitch outside leg, didn't he? It's outside leg, so I could have a sweep at it I just felt it was too full at the time And I'm probably watching it the other day

It's probably still a bit full So maybe I'll charge down the wicket and try and get it before it bounces. I bet you don't. No, I'm not that quick either these days. So we'll have to wait and see. But certainly it will be fascinating for me. I have to say that's why I've come up and I'd just be nice to see, you know, what I think about it. Tell us about the cause that you're raising money for.

Yeah, look, it's a cause. IG, who one of the England sponsors, they're an asset fund manager. And they're actually going to have, it's called IG Net Gains Fund Fund. which I believe pounds are being given to all the people that go into the simulator and runs they get against any sort of bowlers will be going into a fund that will go back into club cricket for nets and facilities for those clubs that are in less well-off areas. So it's a fantastic fund.

And I think if I don't get any runs or don't hit it, I think they're going to give us 10,000 anyway. So they've been brilliant. So it's a great pleasure to do it and I just hope I can get a bat on it, I guess. As he heard from my commentary, the original moment back in 93, I didn't have the best vantage point with my view obscured by Ian Healy, the wikikeeper, and the first slip, Mark Taylor. So earlier today, I went on to the field to stand in that very spot

and share memories of that day with the former Australia captain. Well, first, I've got to apologise to you, haven't I, because I blocked your view. You do. I've been asked a lot, actually, coming over here. And the worrying thing, Ag, is that it was 30 years ago. That worries me because I don't feel that old, but obviously I am, but it was a great day.

Obviously a great day for Warnie, for Australian cricket, because I think a lot of us in the Australian side knew how good Shane Warn was. We didn't know he was going to take 708 test wickets, but we knew he was a fine bowler. And I think that ball introduced him to, well, not so much the world, but certainly English cricket. Australian cricket knew about him, but English crickets thought, oh, wow, hang on.

This guy can. This guy can actually bowl and can bowl some wonderful deliveries. He just went from that wicket to 700,8 of them. Did you know he was capable of bowling something like that? Absolutely. Yes, I did. I'd seen Warnie probably two or three years before that.

I took a side to Zimbabwe, a younger Australian side, which I captain and Steve Warr was vice captain of that tour. And Warnie went on that tour. And we saw him bowl balls like that. We saw him bowl flippers that actually swung in to right-handed batsmen and got them out square cutting,

particularly Davy Houghton and Andy Pyecroft to two fine players in that series. They will tell you about Shane Warren and how he could drift the ball, how he could bowl a flipper, but also spin it, and bowl consistently. And that was probably the biggest key of Warnie's career, was that he could land that leg spinner

almost on a dime and five or six to man over, not three or four, but five or six. And that made him the great bowler he was. So what do you remember, Mark? Approaching T, Gat, I think, was on four. Goutch and Atherton had put quite a lot on for the first widget. Approaching T, Alan Border decides, okay, we're going to bring him on.

And you're at Slip. Can you remember, can you set the scene? What's your memory like of that particular time? I think my memory would be like any other when Warnie came on. I'd grab him a spot at first slip, which is about 45 degree angle to the stumps. and get ready in case the batsman Nick won. And then I see this ball that, yeah, drifts in, which didn't surprise us because he did put a lot of revs on the ball,

which gave it that drift in. But then the spin, that was the thing. It surprised everyone of us, I think, particularly his first ball. It was a loosener. That's right. And I think Warnie said a few times, yes, he was just trying to get it down there, somewhere around about stumps, and maybe spin it away a bit, you know,

and then get into his spell. and that drifted as all the thousands of replays we've seen since showed how much it drifted in just opened Gat up enough and then ripped past his bat, his back leg I think it may just have brushed the pants on the way through and clip the top of off. You could not have scripted a better ball

for leg spin at a bowl for their first ball in Ashes cricket. Could Gatt have played it? I remember turning up next morning and he's out here with his tape measure and with the groundsman trying to work out and he said, oh my foot wasn't in the right. I could have played it. I could have played it. But his foot was in the right place.

His pad was in the right place to start with. It was the drift that killed him. Yeah, and all those things that contributed to it was the drift. It was the fact that he's looking to get forward to start with it. Then he moved the front leg out of the way. If he'd have gone on the back foot, say, and played very front on,

it would have hit him on the pads and the ball pitched outside leg so it wouldn't have been out. So yes, he could have played it differently, but you've got to put all those, contributing factors into it. He's thinking forward. The ball's not short,

but it drifts down the league's side. So we think, oh, here we go. This is going to skid on, and I might be able to work this around the corner for one. And then it rips across him on day two of the test match. Like, it's not as if it's day five.

You're not expecting the ball to turn like that on day two. So all those factors contributed to the way he played it and made it, as people say, the ball of the century. Great challenge for Mike, because you may have seen it set up, Mark. I'm not sure around about. You can set up these deliveries.

Have you seen it with a tennis ball and a bowling machine and you can actually rig it for various deliveries? They've set it up for that delivery and Gathe's going to go and face it out there. What now? Yep. What do you reckon his chances are? Probably worse than they were 30 years ago.

Yeah, probably. I mean, if he tried to put everything in place, I mean, what would you do? Just kick it away? Kick it away. Just rather than take the front pad out of the road. just push the front pad towards the ball somewhere with the bat somewhere near it

and you're probably going to smother it because you know what's coming that's the beauty of live sport isn't it you don't know what's coming I'll let you know how he gets on Mark just a last thought there's this story I don't know where it came from that when you played Worcestershire

the match before and the second inning's Graham Hicks smashed 180 odd and took Shane Warn to the cleaners actually got what 120 odd of 20 overs but the word was from Alan Ball order to warn, don't show them what you've got. Keep everything up your sleeve and we'll wait for the test matches. Now is there any

truth in that at all, do you think? I think there's a little bit of truth in it, yes. But Warnie always had various stories about the 20 different deliveries and the surprise ball, the new ball he always going to have. The Zooters. The Zooters, all that sort of stuff. The mystery ball.

I think looking back at that game, Warnie, certainly not in test match mode, certainly not in the competitive mode that he would have been at Manchester a week later. And I can't recall him bowling flippers and trying those things at Worcester. But don't get me wrong,

he wasn't giving Graham Hick 180 either. He didn't enjoy being smashed out of Worcester's home ground like he was. But did he bowl all his deliveries? I don't think so. But the difference was he came here to Manchester and bowled that ball first up, and that changed everything.

Love to catch up with you, Mark. I'll let you know how Gat gets on. Thanks, mate. I'm back and warning you again. Thanks, mate. Cheers, toughs, perfect. Thank you. There we go.

Love it here from Mark Taylor, who's here working for Channel 9 TV. So, reflecting on that ball, but let's push a bit wider too and just talk about Shane from someone who knew him so well, his famous partner in crime, of course. Glenn McGraw, who didn't play in that game,

did you, Glenn, of course? No. Just preceded you, but how long it take you to see it? I wonder. watching it when it happened or we yeah i'm trying to think trying to think exactly where i was um sort of june 1993 um i did go down to the cricket academy for a second year along with ricky ponting rickie ponting was there in 92 and 93 as well and we were watching a lot of the ashes in the evening um at the cricket up academy based in adelaide so i would have been it would have been there

and uh yeah we've seen that ball probably a thousand times since then it's it's one of those balls that just gets replayed, replayed when it's about cricket and ball of the century or incredible deliveries, it's always there. So I've seen it about a thousand times since then. I'm just trying to recollect exactly where I was when it happened. Well, you bowled some decent balls in your time, Glenn. I'll give you that. On a scale of nought to 10, where would that ball have been in terms of unplayability? Well, you saw how Gap played it. He was a very good player of spin. And he just, he went to sort of fend it, even patted away, and it turned square. And, yeah, I don't think he'd ever seen anything like it, nor had a lot of people sort of watching cricket or in the game itself.

And throughout Shane's history, you know, his career, I saw a lot of balls. You know, some of them barely pitched on the cut surface. It was so wide. Strauss seemed to get most of them. Strauss, he got a couple. I remember one to Shivner-on-chand-chand-paw. It nearly pitched on the edge of the pitch right on. on the edge at Sydney, he went back to cut it

and it just turned back and just about ripped his leg stump out, not even the off-stump. So, yeah, it was one of those things. But, yeah, you look at that in sort of just the revs and energy that he puts on through the crease and the revolutions on the ball just sort of dips and drifts.

And as soon as it pitches, it just turns square. Yeah, it's, I'm sure, you know, we heard Gat talk about it there and you sort of recollect, you go through and go, how could I have played that any different? You probably couldn't have. And, yeah, for first ball. Like, not even a warm-up delivery

to land exactly where he wanted it like that. It's incredible delivery. But that's the thing, isn't it? I mean, it says a lot about the character of Shane Warren that he didn't just think, oh, let's get one down there. He put so much on that first ball that would be bowled. That's not many people would have done that.

Let's be honest. And bowling is sort of bowling that he was doing too which is so difficult for control to have the confidence in yourself to go out there and bowl a ball like that first ball says a lot about him i would have thought oh exactly and that was a man he was he was super confident he backed himself he loved the big stage everything about it was was who he was and you know he just yeah for you see some like spinners come on first ball at full toss or a half tracker or something but that was perfect and there were so many times he did that so yeah he he was the ultimate competitive, firstly, and backed himself in every situation.

So, yeah, it wasn't, if it was ever going to happen to any cricketer, it was probably going to happen to Shane, and it did. Actually, you hear Mark Taylor there talking about sort of Shane and his stories. Because he was a big, a big kind of storyteller, wasn't he? Exaggerator and a blower-upper of things. He always loved telling stories, and yeah, loved exaggerating, if the number sounded way too big. you know but sounded really impressive then yeah it probably was and vice versa it was a little bit too small so yeah there were so many times you come in and you know you put the you know the warning

tax on it yeah you're just divided by a bit or you add a bit here or there but yeah i think there's there was one time in the west indies in 99 where he came in it was a tour match we're batting and he's carrying on about how many pairs of socks he's had stolen and lost on on tour and he goes I'll come away with 50 pairs of socks. He goes, who has 50 pairs? I don't have 50 pairs of socks, but Shane obviously does. He brought him all away with him. And he's going on.

Every time he puts him in the wash and they get, you know, they knock them off, housekeeping steals. You know, he said, I've only got 12 pair left. I have no idea how I'm going to get through the rest of the tour. And he's going on and on about it as Shano did. And he heads back outside and Haley jumps up and goes, I've worked one ear. Whatever Shano starts with, you have.

whatever he finishes with your double I went okay so he started with 50 half that 25 finished with 12 double that 24 Shane lost one pair of socks but only Warnie could turn one into 38 so that was that's sort of how Warnie said but yeah

there was so many other times he had incredible stories but a lot of them were actually true he's just a normal person but just lived this extraordinary life and yeah to the one thing I'll say about Shano is unfortunately only live at, you know, 52 when he passed away,

but he probably lived more in that 52 years than most of us would live in two or three lifetimes. He lived the way he wanted to live his life. He was a special person. He was, I think he was quite honest with himself as well. He said he didn't make a good husband, but he made a very good father. And I think that was very true.

You know, he loved his kids. He did a lot with them. And, you know, you always feel for them. The way they spoke at his funeral and memorial service was incredible, but yeah, he was an amazing man and, yeah, I feel truly lucky to have had him in my life and to be, you know, bowled the other end from him in a lot of my career.

Yeah, and how did that start? You know, because you were like a little team, within the team, weren't you? You and Shane Warren bowling together, an incredible combination, because in both ways, although very different bowlers, you're actually very similar bowlers

and that you both hated giving runs away, both building up loads of loads pressure. So how did that come about? How did it work? I think it just, well, it just started because we're both in the team. You know, Warnie was, had been in there probably sort of eight, 12 months before me. It started, sort of cemented his place in the team. And I came in, I was just a sort of fairly new to the game. I'd only played, you know, half a dozen first class class games. And, and then as it went on, we realized, yeah, we're totally different bowlers in basketball, a leg spitter. But we, where we were similar was we had really good

control. So we could bowl the ball exactly where we wanted it to, which allowed the captain to set the fields they wanted, we could bowl to it and build pressure. And that's how you take wickets. And then through our career, it just evolved from there. And yeah, it was funny. I remember midway through our career having a chat with Shane and he goes, you know, when we retire, we should retire at the same time. And I didn't give it much thought. I remember, you know, when Greg Chappell and Rod Marsh and Dennis Lee retired. They all retired in the same match there. And I thought it might have been something along there.

But the more I thought about it was, oh, if we retire in the same game, he started before me. So he'll definitely finish with more Test wicket. So I wonder if you had a bit of an agenda shadow. But no, and the way it worked out, it was just, I remember waking up one day in those 607 series and just knew it was time for him to hang the boots up. Just out of the blue, just woke up, went to Adelaide,

Warnie Boulders to victory on the last day in that test went to Perth and I hadn't said anything and Shane and I was sitting in the team room and I just mentioned it, wanted to have a chat to him about something and then he said the same thing and then he said he wanted, he was going to announce his retirement at the end of the series as well so it was funny how it sort of all

just how the blue came about and we finished up at the same time but it's yeah so my whole career I played with Shane at the other end and I do consider myself an incredibly lucky person to think that, well, I class him as a great mate, which is something I'll always treasure. And, yeah, you know, all the photos and everything that we've seen.

And, you know, I remember 05 here, what an incredible series. But at the Oval, when we'd lost it, we knew it was out of reach, walking off arm and arm, Shane and I, sort of waving to the crowd. And then at the SCG when we did retire, they're really sort of special moments that I'll always treasure. Yes. You tell a great story of Shane again. We're back to the confidence of the man, I think, and the talent, obviously,

when he was on 699 wickets, and it's in his last appearance in Melbourne. Yep. And you're standing at Middons, Strauss is on strike. Tell us about the conversation that he had there with you. Yeah, so Warnie was always bowling to a plan. He had such good control. You know, he could land the ball and do whatever he wanted, but he had a great cricket brain

and he knew what he was trying to do, how he's looking to get the batsman out. And Andrew Strauss was on strike. He was on 699 test wickets and he came up to me a couple hours before. He said, you know, the plan here is I'm going to keep it tight to Straussie. They say, just not give him anything. If he's still on strike next day or I'll keep the first ball tight,

second one, I'll toss up. He's going to try to slog sweep me and I'll bowl him through the gate. That was his plan. I said, sounds like a pretty good player to me. Warnie, and as it was, he kept the air. over tight. And this is just Nancy's retirement as well. So in front of probably 96, 97,000 fans at the MCG. And that over, he said, Straussie was still on strike. Kept the first ball tight. And the second boy, he sort of pointed to me, okay, this is a ball. And then he tosses

the ball up. And I'm not sure if Andrew Strauss was listening into our conversation, but he didn't try to slog sweep him. He'd try to whip him through mid-wicket. Tuss it up. The ball drifted, and spun back through the gate and bowled him as exactly as warning had predicted. And then Warnie was off and running around. He'd 700 wickets in front of his home crowd. And it was a very special moment. But he predicted exactly how it would come up and then executed it. And then I caught it with Straussie a few months back.

So I had a big chat to him about the Lord's Test and his charity. And I mentioned it to him. And his face just dropped a bit. He goes, I remember that. He said, Shane had just moved midwicked out. And I thought, why is he doing that? That's just exactly where I want to hit the ball. That's just an easy shot.

Suck it him in. And suck at him in. And then when I told him, he set him up. He couldn't believe it. But that was the great man. Thank you, Glenn. Let's just catch up quickly. Mike Gatton's been facing the ball of the century again.

Henry Moran was there to see how he got on 30 years later. There goes, Mike Gatting, facing the ball he faced 30 years ago. Income, Shane, worn. Oh, and he's wall off him through the leg side. That's what he should have done 30 years ago. Well, Mike, how was that? That went a little better than 30 years ago. That one there's nice when you know where it's coming.

So it's never a problem, is it? When you know where it's not coming and you know when it's... Whether it might bowl you around the legs or it might turn the other way or... So, yes, it's nice when you know which way it's coming. The flick through mid-wicket, I mean, that was the one, wasn't it? It is, if you can play that shot.

I mean, it's not one that I often play, but I mean, I think you might think about running down the wicket because you know it's going to come back into you and you can give it a whack, but it still feels too full to sweep. I mean, I'm not sure whether I might have to have a go at that when I do it in real life, but it'll be quite interesting. The TMS podcast. Watch highlights of every day of every test on IPlayer.

On Valentine's Day 2004, one of Italy's greatest cyclists was found dead in mysterious circumstances. Pantani, known as the pirate, because of the yellow bandana he wore around his head. The cyclist, it was 34, was found dead in a hotel room in Rimini. In November 2021, new evidence had supposedly come to light, alleging that the Italian mafia were involved in Marco Pantani's death. His death was ruled accidental, but his family has long contested those findings, suspecting foul play nearly 20 years on

are we any closer to knowing for sure what happened to the pirate entering the world a professional cycling was like joining the mafia I'm Hugh Dennis and this is sports strangest crimes Marco Pantani death of a pirate

listen on BBC sounds you've got Michael Vaughn and he should go her with me both of whom of course worked with Shane in Australia as predominantly television colleagues Michael of course the one person in here to have actually done battle with

Shane out there and the middle not in that game clearly but I don't know you just you can't help when you listen to

memories of Shane Warren clearly well that ball is the one that immediately springs to mind but there were so many others weren't there some of others

along the way how did you go I've got Andy to look up your stats actually and I haven't checked myself I just

how did you think he got on against him I think I did okay Well, what did your class is okay against Shane Warn? Oh, I reckon if you're averaging over 35 against him, I'd take that. Settled that, wouldn't you? Yeah, I think so. I'm not too sure. But all I remember is 2002 is the first time I faced him.

And I just remember looking at loads of videos of Shane Warn. And it's not a good look when you're trying to prepare to face a baller because most of the videos that I was watching was of that great ball like getting, many other balls. even Warnie Bowling to Phil Tuffnell around the wiki. I even watched that contest, which is, please, YouTube that contest. He didn't get him out, though. He didn't get him out.

No, he padded him away. Well, he kicked them away. So it kind of frightened the life out of me, you know, thinking I was going to face this legend of a bowler. And I think, you know, I was in an England side that a lot of the players have been beaten up by Australia in the 90s, early 2000. So when I asked a few senior players, how it was to face. Shane Warren, there wasn't a great deal of positivity coming back. Oh, it's a nightmare, you know, and if Glenn McGrath's at the other end

where you just don't score and warn he's got Zooters, hooters, Groutes, you name it, he's got millions of deliveries and his personality and his persona. So I was absolutely you can imagine when I faced him. And after the first over of facing him, I expected something completely different

to come out of his hand, you know, because it was the great Shane Warren. But after a couple of deliveries, I thought well, he's just a leg spinner, but a very good one. And what I faced in the first two or three deliveries was obviously very good spin, a bit of shaping to me as a right-hander. He bowled

a couple of legs, and then he showed me the Googly quite early. I'd never faced him, so I think he wanted to just try and do me with the Gugley. I saw it quite early. I thought, okay. But it was his persona. Yes. And what he brought to bowling was not just leg spin and genius in terms of the skill

that he delivered. He created a theatre that he put into your mind that he was going to bowl something completely different to what he was actually bowled. And he bowed great leg spin, the best. But it was only leg spin primarily a lot. And that Zuta that he used to bowl, although, I don't know what else he called it,

the one that kind of skidded along. Brilliant flipper he had. Yeah, it's fantastic. And I think that was more in the 90s when his shoulder wasn't. So I got him when he probably couldn't quite get the kind of unf onto that Zuta. And in the first game at Adelaide, that kind of slider that he bowled, it was kind of

sticking in the surface anyway. It wasn't skidding on. So it was a delivery that you could get away with. So I actually did okay. You had a brilliant series That was the first time of asking Of actually facing him And it was purely a mindset That I was petrified facing him

Before I faced him And actually once I'd faced him For an over or two I thought Well if you take away All of the kind of noise That he produces And his body language

And it's not only his body language When you're facing him It's when you're at the non-strikers end He will say things to you At the non-strikers end That will get into your head So he'll be telling you Oh by the way

When you're down there mate And get ready you know it'll be in your ear you know so you can imagine if you're a a player or a batter that's got slightly a bit of negativity going on in your head and he's done you in the past well he was the past master

of knowing when he had you and I won't name names but he certainly had a few of the England players of that tour and you could see it in their eyes you could just see it that he had them purely in the mind that when he had the ball in his hand and there was times in the series when it spun

there was times in the series when it didn't spin at all but you could just sense that he had this psych over players that it was Shane Warren he was a legend he was a genius but he just had the psyche as well I always thought that that's why he was a brilliant poker player because he could you know the glasses on the cap on that's how he plays his poker

you know he could con anyone he had a brilliant art and that's what he did so so well as a bowler in terms of the psyche he was a proper pantomime dame when he bowled wasn't he? It would have been great on stage in one of those pantomimes. Huge character, arms all over the place and lots of chatter going on. So come on, let's reveal then.

Oh, no. No, he did pretty well. That series, you had a great series that one. He had 284 balls, 131 runs, three dismissals. So, average over 40. There you are. Oh, I'll take that. Oh, take that. You would take that. Oh, thank you. I mean, he was slightly over the hill then?

That's not statistically, no. Well, yeah, oh, take that. I mean, I got look here at Old Trafford on day one. I got 100 here. but it was flat, didn't spin so I got lucky here I don't think I was in that often long enough in the second innings when it was really ragging

I'd kind of got out to McGraw before the damage of Worn came so I was quite smart in that regard that I probably never really got to face him in the second innings when the footholes were huge and those great deliveries that was seen Andrew Strauss got balls at Edgebastin with a beauty

I was pretty... Stras got some horrible balls Oh yeah he was good enough to survive long enough to get in still being when Warnie came on. I was smart enough to be out by then. Oh, good. So, Isha, when did you first see the ball of the century then? Oh, it would have been early days.

Growing up watching England, but also this incredible Ash's battle and contest. And everyone used to talk about Shane Warn and Ball of the Century. And, yeah, he had this persona about him that, you know, made things happen. And I loved watching players like that. and you know growing up in cricket watching that 2005 Asher series I knew that I wanted to hang out with him I never imagined that I would

but during that series I was like he looks like a cool guy and I want to hang out with him and obviously he did really well that series he came into that series not feeling that confident and he spent maybe three hours with Terry Jenner the day before that first test match in the nets working with him over and over again just on his action

and just building that belief again because he spent that domestic season with Hampshire and he'd been obviously talking to Ken Peterson a lot and correct me if I'm wrong but the two players that I feel got hold of him in particular when it was turning Kevin Peterson and Lakshman in India and when you watch back those highlights in Calcutta that famous test man.

game. Andy, what KP's record against Shane Warren? Because I think you're right, he definitely put some damage on him a couple of times. Not many, but... They were big mates as well, weren't there? There must have been also that bit of added. What I love about Shane Warren, you know, me and he should have been very fortunate to work with him in Australia, and I've stayed at his house many times.

And he ended up with 7008 test wickets. And the amount of times we'd be sat just watching, I don't know, a bit of rugby league or Aussie rules at home, and just out of nowhere, he'd just go, I should have got 950. and when I what are you on about he said I should have got 950 DRS

DRS and that's how his mind were he was such a competitor and then you know when he sees the modern player

getting loads of spinners getting those ones now that click the pad or you know bat's got a big stride in

it clicks the peg and oh it's out it'd go nuts how many would I have got how many would I have got how are getting on with KP

Peterson had a very good record against Worn average 61 against him, faced him in 18 innings, 308 runs, 5 dismissals, 521 balls. I scored a decent rate as well. How are you with him earlier each year?

Because we'd have known Shane through working with the men's game, him playing against him and so on, but then suddenly you are in the commentary box, I guess probably the first time he made. It must have been quite intimidated. I think I'd feel quite intimidated alongside Shane Warren, just because it's Shane Warren.

It's a ridiculous thing to think of. I mean, I wasn't intimidated by Jeffrey Boycott, but somehow you feel that, but Shane warn it would be quite an intimidating intimidating present yeah and I think the feeling around that is maybe you feel like you have to earn his respect

and the first time I worked with him was actually in a T20 World Cup in Bangladesh and I was there with Mel Jones and he was brilliant he was very respectful and then I probably later on was at Sky and then and then working in Australia with Triple M

and that's where I got to know him a bit more because they would often try and get him on the show. Well, that's a very relaxed. That is a bit of a crazy radio station where actually, I suspect if you're going to work with Shane Morn for the first time or so, that's probably quite a good environment to do it in, isn't it? Yeah, and I think just through doing more and more

and I guess establishing myself in commentary, he probably saw me more in the media centre and recognised that I was doing more. And then really when we kind of hung out properly was during the 2019 Ashes so when I was working for Sky back then and then obviously with Fox in Australia and I've got a great story for you

so 2019 Headingley we're there obviously watching this unbelievable match unfold, Ben Stokes and it goes to nine wickets and I come out the chair I'm like okay this is going to be done very soon so get some Aussies on and Rich, my husband's in the ground

and I just said that the train's up running we had a period of time over those few weeks where we just hadn't been home so I was like, trains aren't running we need to try and get a lift off someone Shane very kindly put his hand up and I just messaged Rich and I said babe do you mind just going back to the hotel

because I haven't got our stuff ready do you might go back to the hotel to back our stuff because I know that as soon as this is over, Shane is going to want to leave straight away. Gone. So thankfully, he said no. So he didn't miss. He didn't miss Ben Stokes and

everything that unfolded, but Shane was on his way, was No, no, obviously that last Wicket partnership happened. We were all there in the commentary box, it was amazing and Shane very kindly waited for us to go and get our stuff so that he could drive us back down. But

that journey is supposed to take about, what, three and a half, four hours? I reckon I can say this now. I reckon we were back in about two hours. And I was in the front seat. Rich was behind and he had his windows down. He was smoking, they call it durries in Australia, smoking out the window. And it was the most incredible experience.

But he had that way of making you feel so comfortable as well. When he got to know you and when he liked you, he was so supportive. He was so loyal. and he was great to both myself and Rich. I mean, the thought of that, he quite like his flashy cars. He did, he certainly drove a lot quicker than he bowled. Oh, yeah, he loved a fast car.

I was very fortunate, the last Christmas I spent with him. And I always remember I was standing in an apartment along the embankment in Melbourne and warned he's at the crown. He's got the sweet penthouse. You can just imagine it's beautiful. Anyway, I'm 930 Meet me outside, you okay, so I walk along

And all of a sudden, this G-wagon Comes flying out the car park And he's warning, windows down, fag-on Full car, full of presents I said, warning, I did it yesterday, went to the shop, got everyone a present, got to go down to meet the ex-wife and the kids, okay, so

flying out of Melbourne, he's going down one-way streets, starts going down the wrong way and the motorway, reverse his back, it's chaos, he gets to some lights, a young chap arrives in a little golf car and he revved up the young cat and he looks at Warnie and Warnie looks at me Beaks him out of the black, he's not beating me

So he's even competitive with someone on the streets We ended up going down, dropped a few presents off Even competition with a dog His ex-wife's son's got a lovely dog Dog comes up to Shane and he said to him, He prefers me He's so competitive in everything he does And then he ended up his brother Jason

house for Christmas lunch. I always remember it. We're all sat outside and his mom and dad were there and his kids. And then they said, you know, dinner serves. It was like a buffet.

All the turkey, you know, every angle of Christmas was sorted out. And on the end was a big bowl of lasagna. So I'm getting my turkey on the plate. That's unusual for me.

Yeah, I looked to that. I thought that's a bit strange and a load of bread rolls and warn he goes straight to lasagna, big plate. Two huge chunks of lasagna on the plate. gets three bread rolls

puts it on his plate we go and sit around he then turns to Jackson his son and his son had got a bit of turkey with no veg and warn he looks at Jackson

and he just said come on Jackson you could have a bit of veg and I'm looking at Warnie's plate all he's got is lasagna oh by the way and massive chunks of butter and then he doesn't use a knife

uses his hand rips out from the bread rolls he then gets a fork massive chunk of lasagna in the bread roll big chunk of butter uses a knife to kind of

doesn't spread it probably just like and he squashes it and he goes oh I forgot get some tomato ketchup oh no no no

gets the ketchup out puts it over the lasagna he had lasagna sandwiches for Christmas dinner and then he drives his back

yes he's a bit fast back to Melbourne but all the way he was so proud of Melbourne he adored Melbourne and he would send us regular weather reports

weather but yeah Sydney Melbourne the difference between he'd probably be sending us a weather report right now yeah he would be he said oh manchester similar to Sydney and he went

and he was showing me every house you know so proud of Melbourne and all these great and I reckon on the way back I said one you've just driven me about I reckon you've bought about 55 houses on the way oh I'm gonna get that one I'm gonna get that one I'm gonna get that one

oh he was so proud of Melbourne but as Isha said he was so generous with his time you know I saw him with so many people you know anyone that wanted to talk spin. So if you brought a kid to him and said, oh, my kid's a leg spinner, can you give, you know, whoever the young boy or girl was, can you give them 10 minutes of your time? He would give anybody that wanted to talk, in particular leg spin, as much time. And if there

was someone that had his bowling spin, he'd be there just teaching them and giving them all the tips and all the kind of psychology tips, technical tips. I think, I'm sure people, He absolutely adored cricket. He really did. He was such a budger. And even when he wasn't working on it, he'd be messaging him about the games that you were working on or anything that he was watching

and he'd be like, you know, giving his thoughts on that particular match. But that's something I don't think we talk about as much with Warnie because he did so much other stuff on the field and was such a larger-than-life character. But the way he broadcasted was a real inspiration to me. in particular because of the way he simplified the game and he was able to transcend the sport obviously but the way he was able to talk about cricket and make it so easy to understand for people who weren't cricket aficionados I was really inspired by any time

he talked about leg spin obviously it was literally like you could not take your eyes off him he was such a magnetic personality anyway but he found and that was really important to him being part of that channel nine commentary box and the history of channel nine commentary working with Carrie Packer and all those that had gone before. History was really important to him, so we knew a lot about the history of the game. And he would take that into any commentary box that he went into around that respect around commentators

that had gone before and the etiquette of broadcast. She cared about that. It's interesting because you look at some who come breezing in and you don't feel they're actually working terribly hard at it, But Shane Warren was a worker. He was. And etiquette was important to him until we obviously went to Fox Cricket and we had these headsets on where it's very hard when you're on a bit of a role to stop talking.

So we would be putting up signs of just let it breathe on the window. Shut up. And he would come in and go, who's that for? But it was. I mean, look, he was such an amazing broadcaster, I think. And his respect for people around him as well, you know, I very much felt that. And when I first came into the Comptory Box, as you mentioned, it could have been quite an intimidating place. And not that I didn't get support from other commentators and pundits and broadcasters. But when I felt like I had Shane's respect, that's when it just gave me that even more confidence because I felt like I had the respect of everyone else. And he was. He was just so encouraging. You know, he would ask you your thoughts. I mean, obviously, he would ask you yours, Michael, but he would ask me my thoughts on the game.

And that just gave me such a boost. And that was just him all over, really. He would, you know, he would make people feel 10 times taller. And that's what I actually see in Brendan and Ben now. I know that Ben was hugely influenced by Shane. But I think he'd be absolutely loving the weighing. We must say it was his father Keith's birthday. He was 80.

just a few days ago. I know he's been listening. So if you're listening, Keith, Affie Beather. That's nice. It's actually, what you said there, she's really interesting

because, in my experience, the more talented and more natural the cricketer, actually the more difficult that person finds it to actually pass that on to people. I think of coaches who had been an incredibly talented players themselves,

they haven't either, they don't quite understand what it means to break the game down so that lesser mortals can actually benefit from what they're saying. to them. And that's certainly been the case in my playing career. And I think

going on through England, someone like Troy Cooley, for instance, who was a very ordinary first class cricketer, a very short career, problems with no balls, finished him off, played for Tasmania. Brilliant coach. Wonderful coach, because he could actually relate to the people who he was teaching. Yeah,

absolutely. I mean, and, you know, I think Shane, you know, I think he has been a good coach. You know, I think he's helped so many players around the world with I wouldn't say he's probably the the kind of coach that would work on technique but purely on mindset and your body language

everything's positive everything's possible you know you can only imagine him up there watching England play and he'd be like oh I wish I was down there he'd have liked this oh he would like the challenge of bowling at it

yeah absolutely yeah he'd like to have a go trying to play against the basballers but I think in terms of the way England played test match cricket in the last year and a half it's almost exactly the way that Shane War would want test match cricket to be played and it's no surprise.

Rob Key is a good friend of Shane's and Baz McCullum is a good friend. So, you know, I do think there's, and I think if you asked Rob Key about the influences in his cricket in life, I bet you Shane Warren's quite clear. I know Steve War had a big impact on Rob Key, but I reckon Warren has had a huge impact

on Rob Key's mindset. You know, it certainly helped English cricket. I mean, you know, Shane Warren, he got 40 wickets in 2005 but I always felt he was he was so genuine with with applause I remember him many times

I think Kevin the oval he ran up and shook his hand on the back of that tremendous hundred Freddy at Edgebaston I remember him shaking and coming in our dressery after the game and shaking everyone's hand sat there

at a pop or two and a fag or two with one and two of the players but so genuine in his kind of want for everyone to learn, you know, and be better players, better people and try and play the game the right way. It's funny, listening back to the commentary all those years ago, 30 years ago on that ball. I remember commentating a little bit afterwards and saying, wow, this is going to, there was now so many wrist spinners, leg spinners, young kids have seen that. What a great

boost it's going to be for wrist spin. Well, where are they? That's what I'm for. It actually never happened and my own theory of why that never really happened is because it was such a damn difficult thing to do and bowling wrist spin and bowling it so accurately and bowling it like Shane Warren well there's only been probably one person's ever able to do it like that and that was him

but it did feel at the time that was going to be an inspiration for so many people at every one or two come through but not the numbers that I imagined at the time would come no I mean there's so many that play T20 cricket but in T20 cricket actually if you're consistent you go so inconsistency in T20 Cricket, so if you've got all the variations, which all the leg spinners have

and bowl slightly inconsistent, that's more dangerous than being consistent in T20 Creek because you can be lined up. I mean, one is the only leg spinner that's mastered all three formats. You know, there's not many. I can't think of any that mastered all three formats like Shane Warren. I mean, Shane Warren and T20 cricket was, you'll have to look at Rajasthan Royals. You know, he won them that title, pretty much single-handed, with a moneyball system of picking a load of players and,

They didn't have the budget like some of the other teams, but his personality and his mindset, just, and also the ability to con the opposition into believing that your tactics were some bit like England at the minute. They're playing this expansive game that it's quite hard to play against because you haven't played against it. And I think it surprises team, where I've warned you back in, I think it's 2008,

the first IPL. He set all these cool, funky fields. And I think it's completely surprised the opposition. They didn't know what to do with it. The year after when it was, tried. They probably thought, oh, I've seen that before. You can't con us twice, but he was a master at making a group of people. And whether it was in the commentary box at Hampshire, you speak about

to any of the old Hampshire players that played in that dresser, and he made you feel 20 times bigger than what you were. And he made you spring through the door and enjoy life and enjoy whether it's commentating, playing the game. I played a load of golf with him. I mean, it's the greatest fun that you can have for four hours. I mean, the language is atrocious but it's the greatest time to be on a golf course he genuinely thinks he can win the Masters he honestly thinks he's going to shoot five under every day

and he shoots 10 over every time but he arrives on the film is when he doesn't though does he get grumpy about it or no the expletives come out more and more and it's not his fault it's the greens aren't rolling quick enough yeah and the club or the grips aren't on properly or something's not quite right with his equipment but so competitive

it was just a big kid wasn't he wasn't he I mean like some of the things he used to throw up and rain breaks you know

the most underrated comments and in the slip cord and I'm sure they had lots of chats in there as well just about you know

top three or yeah he would he would throw these challenges up and quizzes up all the time but he loved it and he made everyone

feel really really special yeah Have you ever tried bowling leg spin? I have. I can only bowl googlys for some reason. I can't bowl an actual leg spin. Isn't it the hardest thing?

And I always, when I was trying to remember, I always end up pulling rather a funny face when I was trying to do it as well. Really strange, because it's such an unusual thing to do. This rather silly face came on at the same time. Oh, God, it's hard. I saw the picture of Rhian Armat, actually meeting Shane 1. It was a few years ago when Rayan was, I think it was at Lord's then,

I think it was 15. And I just think that's great. That actually, Rehan's the next generation for England's leg spinners. You know, and I think that he's had a session with the late Great Shane Warren. And that's exactly, as I said earlier, he would give anyone a bit of time. Yes. Anyone that wants to bowl a bit of the tweak, a bit of the leg spin. The hardest art of them all in the game.

Definitely. And to bowl it so accurately, that was the good. I mean, I actually, no one noticed it. I was his last ever wicket. So I forget his 7008. So we play in the Dunel Lynx Golf. tournament every year and it was on the Saturday night

a couple of years ago and it was throughout the pandemic so he had to be in bubbles like bubbles of six and our bubble of six was myself Joe Root Goffey Shane Warren I think Pierce Morgan was in there

can't remember the first one and we were in the marking you had to be on a table table of six and you kind of went and there was a lounge area and it got a bit late probably about 3 a.m. We'd had a few a bit worse for wear

and warning gets a bit of fruit out and starts bowling and orange and I said oh come on let's have a game of cricket so there's no bat obviously there so I batted with a tequila bowl and it's somewhere online

and he's bowed me it's like the ball that did get him oh the ball of the century his first ball and it's with an orange and he flicks it out and it rags and it beats the outside edge of my tequila bottle and it's sick I think the the speakers with a stump and he just sticks in the speaker

and he celebrated got you again there you go that was his last wicket well even in their bubbles in Southampton I hate to a bit I think Adam Manfred our producer might have clobbered him for a six dealt with him but Shane Warren actually came on a bowl

in the sort of car park situation with a tennis ball you know most people would clients say no thanks very much my bowling days are over he was in there he was in there bowling away there's actually some amazing amazing footage remember when Shane Ward

So Rashi Khan worshipped him. And he's a big, big star in Australia. And so Fox decided to put him and Shane together. And Mark Howard hosted the whole thing. And he hadn't warmed up. I don't think he'd warmed up at all. And he came in. And it's the most amazing vision of both of them bowling together at the same time.

And Warnie's action, and it literally comes out perfectly. It lands, it spins. and then you've got Rashi Khan who's a completely different style of leg spin bowler and it's available I think on YouTube but that was really riveting to watch that that whole piece was just incredible

for any cricket of fashions look it up the Australian's got a great word which I think sums up shame off the field I've got moving on to sort of the captain that Australian never had if people always refer to them to that absolutely and that word is larakin

and if you're You're listening in Australia, you know exactly what I mean. It's someone who has a good time. It's a bit of a Larrakhan, isn't he? I guess that's why Shane never was that captain that Australia never had. Maybe. You know, when he did captain, he did very, very well.

Yeah, Larrakins probably the right word. I mean, we're on now that, what time is it? I don't think it's fair and right to tell some of the stories about Shane won't wake up to. But I think it was Glenn earlier, said he's lived. You know, he lived an incredible life. And what people don't mean, in Australia, he was a, he was a superstar.

He couldn't go anywhere. You know, there was a time of, Adam Gilchrist is a superstar in Australia. But there was a bar opening in Brisbane two or three years ago. Then we were down there commentating and we get invited down. And it was quite a large bar. And Warnie just sitting in there goes, oh, come on, let's go down. I see you, sure. And, come on, come on, we'll go down.

So we go down. And we arrive. And I remember it to this day. We walked in, me, Gilly and Shane, Shane's at the back. And I get, I sneak in and get a few smacks on the back of the head. Walk right, it takes me three minutes to walk around the bar. It takes Gilly about six minutes to walk around the bar.

It took Shane Warren about an hour to walk around. Every single person wanted to speak to Shane. And he used to get a bit annoyed by some of that because it was his private space, he's having a bit of fun. But, yeah, he just was such a stooped. And I think people don't realize how hard it was. their time for him because, you know, he did do a few things that were a bit against the grain, if you like, but I think being Shane in Australia, in England, I think that's why he loved

the UK. I think he loved London because, you know, I think he could just be himself. He could just come. Yeah, people loved him here, though. Yeah, they do. And he loved wherever he goes. But in Australia, I think they felt that they owned him a bit and they needed to always be kind of touching him and almost felt that he was part of them. Most famous Australian? He won't be far off. No. Yeah.

Yeah. Glenn McGrath. But he would always own up. I think he fronted up to things that he got himself into. True misdemeanors. Yeah. And, you know, that was part and parcel of who he was as a person. Part of people loved him, I think.

I think that is why, because he didn't hide it. You know, he was. all out there for everyone to see and everyone could see it and it was you know I think it I think it did affect him sometimes because you know he just wanted to be a normal guy and that's probably why he you know

people did love him because they felt he was so accessible but you know he had tremendous gratitude for everything that you know he'd done in his life and what he'd been able to experience but he did front up

and that was I think that was what was I'm so admired about him. The TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live. Hi, Yaya Toreya for a brand new podcast from the BBC World Service. Match of the Day. Africa Top 10. Join me and follow footballers, Gabrielle Zakwani. Hello.

And Ifan Okuku. Hi. As we choose our top 10 from the best of Africa football. We're not here to play football, but to argue about all things African football. That's match of the day. Africa top 10. Find it wherever you get. Your BBC podcast.