Test Match Special - Ashes Daily: View from the Boundary - Stephen Mangan

Episode Date: July 29, 2023

Jonathan Agnew talks to actor, comedian, presenter and writer Stephen Mangan in the TMS commentary box at The Oval.Mangan recalls memories of following England around the world, watching cricket while in geography lessons at school, and meeting Robert De Niro.

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Time for our view from The Boundary. And yeah, we're joined by a real ball rounder, actually, actor, comedian, presenter, writer, and a great cricket fan who's travelled around the world watching the game. His breakthrough TV role came playing Adrian Mull in the BBC series, The Cappuccino years, before appearing in the comedy series. Green Wing on Channel 4 has been in Alan Partridge episodes. Starred as Postman Pat. I didn't realize that in the Postman Pat movies played Tony Blair

as Nathan Stern in the split. Regular presenter, have I got news for you? Pointless Landscape Artist of the Year, hosts The Confessional on BBC Sounds, on and on and on. You know who it is. Stephen Mangon, finally, finally. It's been a long time coming. Wow, we were trying to work out how many,

because you are easily, our most washed out and cancelled guest. I don't know what it is about me. Every time I agree to come on the show and look forward to coming on the show, the heaven's open and it rains. I think it's the fourth or fifth time. It's nothing, do you think so many? Something like that, yeah.

I mean, it's nothing personal. I promise you. You know, you do. I was at Lords actually early this year, and I did volunteer to come along on the Saturday, but you had somebody else. Oh, the Prime Minister. Yeah, no, I'm sorry about that.

How bumped for the Prime Minister? Well, we could, if I'd known you were there, Stephen, I'd have moved Mr. Sunnack to one side. We could have split it, couldn't we? You could easily have split it, but hey, well, look, you're here, and that's fantastic, and I've been obviously doing so stuff, I know how much you love your cricket,

which we'll talk about in a moment. But first, what are you making of this game? I mean, what is going? I mean, how are we losing this series for a start? I don't know. Ask Jim Maxwell, he'll tell you. I mean, apart from the Manchester weather, we just look so dominant.

And this scoring 130 runs in a session is what we're going to have to expect from now on? It's extraordinary. Because 100 runs in a session was always considered a very, very good morning, wasn't it? Well, you're a bit younger than me, But you'd probably go back to the days when, I know, boycott and Edward would be pushed out

and, you know, good luck, lads. Yeah, lunch, you know, 50 for no wicked. Yep, Tavore, absolutely, in those days. I had a geography teacher when I was about 10 or 11 who put the cricket on during geography lessons, knowing that none of us would watch it because nothing would happen for vast periods of time. And then we'd all look off every 10 minutes

and someone would have pushed a single to cover and run. So he actually had it on in the lesson? He had it on in the lesson, Mr. Hallam, yeah. He was an absolute cricket nut. and one of the reasons why I think I enjoy the game so much. But yeah, no geography was done when England were playing cricket during the summer. That is so, that's brilliant, though, isn't it?

I mean, you hear stories of people listening or whatever, but actually have the telly on. Oh, you know, and this would have been in the late 70s, I suppose, at 79, 80, that kind of period. Yeah, so, you know, occasionally there was some excitement. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Not as much as this, though. I mean, even those players,

well, actually, probably Ian both of wouldn't concede It's more entertaining now than him. But even so, I mean, the way they're playing their cricket is extraordinary, isn't it? The way they're playing the cricket. And the fact that, because we were all wondering, I don't know if you knew that Stokes would be coming in at 3, but we were all wondering who was going to come out at 3. Sort of whispered it.

Was that, was that the humour? Yeah. I mean, what a crowd pleaser that is. Yeah. And how set up we are for the rest of the day. I mean, I know the forecast isn't great for Monday, is it? But, I mean, I don't want to jinx it, but what a great position we're in at the moment. Do you, I mean, it's easier to say that you like Basball.

but do you see the risks of basball as well i think basball can be very frustrating i mean it's wonderful to watch when it's working and it's very exciting to see uh england playing on the front foot like that and intimidating teams intimidating teams like australia have just won the world test championship you think they genuinely are slightly freaked out by the way we're playing and you've got to admire that it's when it just tips and it's a fine line and i understand that that line i mean they seem to it's it seems about individual responsibility cricket is a kind of individual game within a team sport anyway, but they seem to be leaving it up to the individual batsman to play in the way that they think is most effective. And sometimes that it does get contagious,

that slightly reckless play. And some of the first innings, even in this series, you just think we've squandered a few runs here. But they seem to, as a series have got on, just got that balance better and better between aggression, staying on the right side of recklessness. And I think the way we're going about it this morning. I mean, again, that first ball four and just looking to score all the time, looking to rotate. We enjoyed, we're sitting over there

at sort of deep square leg. Oh, yes. And we enjoyed watching Travis Head having to run from third man back every time the strike got rotated. I know. I know. Well, it's interesting that you've detected

that they've changed a bit because I battled with Ben Stokes before this game to just concede that they had, they just tweaked things a little bit. He wouldn't say it. But they have. haven't they?

They have and I think that seems to be a sort of mentality thing where they're not going to allow that doubt in they're not going to, they're just going to say we're going to go for it. Sometimes it'll work sometimes it won't and I think to come along and say well should you try a different route I think they're trying to sort of almost get rid of that

little man on the shoulder saying you're not doing it quite right and letting and just having confidence that of all the talented crickers it is in the team you know one of them will come good in each innings or at least one or two or three and score some runs and that seems to have happened so far.

And in a way, watching Labershain and Australia back yesterday morning adds fuel to England's argument saying, what's the point of hanging around all that time? Labashane, what, he was 80-odd balls for his nine. What's the point? 80 balls? Absolutely. And it's not entertaining.

The only thing, I suppose, you could imagine them discussing, and I don't know if they've done this, but England's pace attack isn't the youngest. If we make them bowl, you know, England are going to bat for a short period of time, they're going to get on with it. They'll score at five runs and over. So are they looking to create a tired England bowling attack for the fourth innings?

I mean, it's a risky strategy, if that is the strategy. It's a good point, though. Yeah. And, you know, will Anderson and Broad, will they all run out of steam? Because, you know, obviously Woodcan't bowl that many. We've lost, seem to have lost our spinner. Yeah. What's the word on him? Is there a...

Unlike it to bowl, I think. Unlike it to bowl. So, yeah, they're going to have to do a lot of work. Stokes, will he bowl? That's the other big question, I suppose. He doesn't seem to have... Because he's pulling his off-spinners in the nets. Right, okay. Well, he might bowl his off-spin.

You never know with Ben. But yeah, you're right. But we're lucky to have Root as well. We've got Joe Root there, who seems to be holding his own pretty well. Yeah. It's so set up for a brilliant couple of days. What's your favourite era of English cricket? I mean, would it be this?

Because what they've achieved is remarkable from where they were. Yeah. I think the type of cricket we're playing at the moment. um you know we've and wood and and wokes coming into the team seem like brand new players even though they've both been around for a while sort of discovered them again rediscovered them in this series i think it's hard to beat isn't it you've got attacking talent like stokes and brook and pope when he's fit and we seem to have found a pair of openers that can actually put some runs on the board before losing a wicket which we haven't done for a long time um yeah i mean the two greatest

fast bowlers or medium fast bowlers of all time you could Glenn McGrath's not here is he no he'll let you know if he'll you know potentially I mean it's certainly a number of wickets so it's very hard not if you I mean if you this is thrilling cricket and long may it continue do you feel a sort of a one day limited over's influence into it as well I mean do do do you do you do like one day cricket I do like one day cricket I don't watch as much of it um you definitely do you see in the variety of shots that are played the ramp and the reverse sweep and you see there in the fielding the way stokes took that catch on the boundary that would have won once upon a time been you know once in a decade kind of manoeuvres yeah yeah but now the fielders know how to do that sort of stuff um so yeah i think we do and i think for the better i might even say uh i think you know the aggression the fast scoring the intent that they've taken from one day cricket and twenty 20 cricket cricket and the fielding prowess as well I think that's all good but you know there is

no finer I mean it's an extraordinary game cricket isn't that you can have all these different formats yes I can't think of any other sport they all work yeah I can't think any other sport that can be played in in with different rules under different conditions and different timespans and still work as well as I think one of the things I also love about cricket and I can't think of another sport where this happens is the at the highest level at the sport is played cricketers have to come out and do stuff they're really not very good at

I mean in what other sport would you see a batsman come out who doesn't know how to bat I mean Tuffus isn't here either but another one the comedy involved in that is fantastic well it was I mean you're absolutely right

I mean we're actually having this conversation last night with David Gower my old captain and the times that he would try on our car journey is to tell me how to play the short pitch ball and he'd say But just got to look at the hand. Let's go there.

It's a full-length ball. A little bit lower. It's a bounce. It's all you've got to do. You know what to do? But I said, David, I can't see it. No, he just could not, he couldn't actually understand that.

And he would just say, well, I can't help you. And then off you go out to your own devices. Facing, someone like Sylvester Clark here, you know, when he's playing for Surrey. It's terrifying. It's also why sometimes the very best players don't make the best coaches, because they just can't understand. I mean, look at Glenn Hoddle in football.

He couldn't understand why people couldn't do what he did. You can't put it into words. He would say, look, just do this. And you get the ball and do it himself. And they go, well, good for you, but I can't do that. No, it's absolutely true. Have you ever faced anything that was fast by your standards? Have you actually been out there batting and thinking,

I'm not sure I can really see this? Yeah, I faced at the level I played at that felt fast. But, I mean, I just can have no idea what it must be like. I haven't tried this bowling machine that replicates great balls in history. Well, it does. Well, I can show you some footage of how you deal with facing Mitchell Johnson, if you like. Oh, really? It helps to have been, well, actually, you've mentioned Tuffers.

Tough has forewarned me. Right. Of what was to come. I mean, no, but... Oh, so you don't know you're getting the worn, Bob. You know you're getting... Yes, you know, but you don't know when it's coming. Oh, I see.

And you should do it. I will. They'd love you down there. There's a big crowd. Really? Yeah. That's slightly terrifying. Yeah.

He had to go. Never. It makes very ordinary batsmen. Did you clock it back over his head? Along the ground. Okay. I controlled it. Right.

Good. It makes ordinary batsmen look rather good. Okay. Yeah. So I've seen footage of Brett Lee bowling at Pierce Morgan, which is quite enjoyable. Because he, I mean, you can see how awful that was. I was there. I was there.

Did he actually get hurt? Oh, yes. Yeah. Regrettably. He's bowled up a very, he actually ran through the crease. Did he? Yeah. He's bowled for 18 yards.

I mean, I thought Piers was mad, to be honest. Yes, that is crazy. It just shows. It just shows. you have a much club cricket or anything you play this is different yeah it is yeah I remember I took Glenn McGra into our pub

at the start of this summer he came and stayed with me and you've got the usual people in there you know all about club cricket and so and Glenn walked in and it's just silence the size of him you know what you think it's just a difference and it's not very far is it no about 22 yards it does feel

well you definitely need to go go down there and and give it a go my pads on. Yeah. Who's your favorite? If you had to nominate your favorite cricketer and do you think of your

time span and would it be both them or is it stokey? I started off as a Gower fan. I mean that was my that was like a lot of people I hear on View for the Boundary. My first test was that

was that Lord's test in 1981 sitting on the grass between the boundary rope and the stands with my score book scored the whole thing. The proper little one.

Yeah. Does anyone do that anymore? I don't see anyone doing that which is makes me feel that I was maybe a bit weird No, I think No, I think people do still do it

In that little fold-up book Every now and again You'd jump up if someone hit the ball towards you And try and be the one that caught it As it popped over there It was fantastic Is that the first time he'd been to Lord? That was the first time I'd been to any cricket match

It was the second day of that Lord's test And so yeah, Gawall was my guy From that period From England I just, his elegance and his style And just his whole The whole sort of myth around his life around his lifestyle, the tiger moths

and the frozen lakes. It's not a myth, I'll let you know that. He just was extraordinary. Yes. He was of epitome of cool. Yes. I mean, I was going to ask him last night actually, if practice would have been

much difference to him because he didn't practice very much. No. He only ever went for a net if he was in really pretty ordinary form. Otherwise, he'd just have a few little throw downs on the side. Just play it a few times. And no fitness work? very little. No.

They just go back to the telegraph crossword and you'd sit and do that. What was it like watching Dennis Lilly from grass level as a youngster? Side on. Oh. Yeah. Incredible.

I mean, he didn't take any wickets that match as far as I'm aware all that innings anyway. But again, the charisma. And I think when you're, I think I would have been 12 at that point. That was amazing. You know, these guys are gods, aren't they?

They are. They're just the natural charisma they have when they appear on the field. and especially Lily with his shirt billowing. Yeah, the gold chain going. Yeah, the gold chain and coming in and just inhuman speed. And of course, from side on, the ball looks like it's travelling twice as fast as it does from the end. So yeah, lovely.

I mean, a great star and, you know, lucky to sort of, and of course that summer exploded. And I think there are those seminal series, the 2005, hopefully this one. I mean, we were deprived the ultimate showdown. but there are those certain series that really sort of capture the mood of the country and I think recruit a whole load of new cricket fans and I was certainly one of them in 1981

and that was the Botham pair game wasn't it? Yeah. He actually walked off at the end of the members He lost the captain seed, didn't he? Yeah. Did you get any grip of that then or not? Not really because I think those sort of politics

are kind of beyond you when you're first discovering the game. I mean I've got my son Frank here with me and I've been busy just in his ear I don't know if he's bored with me but all morning. You know, because knowing who the personalities are, knowing what their traits are,

knowing the fact that Crawley's nickname is creepy, for example. All those little details, they kind of help, don't they? Otherwise, it's just lots of men running around in a vast green space. Is he getting test cricket? There's a lot of kids around. I've noticed yesterday when I was out of the back. There's a lot of young kids here. Yeah, I think so.

I think so. It is when you score 130 runs in a morning. Yes. You know, if we were 50 for naught, it would have been a much more difficult cell. But there's always something going on. and now Stokes is out there as well. So, you know, I think so.

We'd have to ask him, but thumbs up, yeah, thumbs up. Just rank at the back there. The TMS podcast. Take the ashes with you this summer. Hear every ball. Live on BBC Sounds. The Dakar Rally is the ultimate off-road challenge. Perfect for the ultimate defender.

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So you yourself playing, you talk about your geography teacher and the television in classroom. So what was the young man? I was a batsman and an off-spin polar. I was a beautiful, I mean, I had elegance, high elbows. I looked like a dream. Did you?

Never hit the ball, but looked, I had elegant, I had it all. I mean, if you saw me without the ball, I had a beautiful square cut. I could flick it off my ankles and on drive, but never, but always playing down the wrong line. over the top of the ball. Why was that? I think I was just more concerned with looking good than actually really watching the ball.

You know, there's cricketers who look agricultural, but they are laser-focused on the ball and they all seem to hit it. I was just too busy looking, trying to look like David Gower. I think it's all his fault. Right.

Was that the sort of the actoring side of you coming up already? I was playing the part of a cricketer without actually. Because, of course, I mean, I've played a professional tennis player in a film, and it doesn't matter where the ball goes in a film.

Because as long as you look like you're hitting the ball like a professional, you never actually see the ball, because it's whizz past the camera. So I think it was that sort of, you know, look the part, but hopeless. I mean, I started at number six. I started number five, and I ended up at number eight as the series went on. Could you have acted being a batsman?

Because some of the stuff, you do occasionally see a cricket in a film, don't you? And there was a bodyline series, of course. It was brilliant back in the day. I was watching that. And they were obviously absolutely hopeless cricketers. It's frustrating, isn't it? Yeah. When you see sports, you know, big sports events,

shown on film, you just pray that the people can vaguely look like than what they're doing. I mean, when I played the tennis player in a film called confetti, we had a professional tennis player and he said, right, you can do a forehand, you can do a backhand and you can do a forehand volley. Don't do a serve. That doesn't

look real, but the rest you're getting away with. So I think the same with cricketers, you know, you need to, I mean, it's horrendous when you see someone coming in pretending to be Jardine. But it does. And they clearly have never seen a cricket ball in their life. I mean, Harold Lawwood in that, I mean, it's a lovely series, but they clearly got as far as coal miner, Harold Larwood.

And I mean, he must have had size 15 feet, the chap we played. He'll go running in and bowled as Harold Larwood. But it was still a great. Yeah. It's still a great series. I was in a play at school, Outside Edge. You know that play? Yes.

So I did that when I saw. And I play, you know, but that's all set in the pavilion. So we never actually got out there. But that's the only cricket-related thing. It was a very popular, yeah. It was, wasn't it? Yeah. Probably mid-80s.

Yes. Oh, gosh, I don't know that as well. So any particular landmarks, I mean, notable achievements in this career in which you... The cricket career. Not really. I mean, I had a team for about ten years in my twenties, comprised mainly of actors and musicians and writers.

That's nice. And trying to get 11 actors to all turn up at the right time on a Sunday morning in the right place is a headache. Let me put it, you know. We used to play the Bank of England ground quite a lot, down at Rowhampton, which is very nice. And we played lots of things. I played with Harold Pinter a few times. Did you really?

He was legendary with this cricket. I never met him. Absolutely terrifying. I stood next to him in the slips. And the bowler ball down, I think I applauded and said, you know, nice one. And he turned to me and said, are you going to do that all day long? So that shut me up very quickly. Is that right?

But yeah, playing with actors was fun. But then you have to deal with things like our fast bowler one match who he had a ferocious appeal, which would scare most umpires into giving it out. But on one particular match, you do. turned around and kept whispering saying, how was that? I said, what's wrong with you? I've got a massive voice over tomorrow and I don't want to wreck my voice. Well, no, they couldn't get injured

at all, I don't suppose. It would be a disaster. Injuries are, yeah, a problem. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Now, these tours you've been on, I was just looking at the ones. I mean, that's, you've done some proper, quite hard core tours there. I mean, the first one that I had noted down was, well,

I call it the Tuftanil tour. It was, it was the England Tour of India in 93. Which was a shambles? Yeah. I mean, it was a disastrous tour from England's perspective. And which matches did you see in that? Did you do all the three tests?

I did all three tests, yeah. Right. Why? Why? The thing is, when it got to about November time, if I wasn't working, I knew as an actor, there would be no work coming over Christmas. I never did Panto. No filming would be starting.

So you just look up and see where England were playing, get a ticket, and go. so I happened to be unemployed at that point so I had no choice in the matter off I went I've done a couple of tours of India I also did the well I was at the Nagpur game that Cook

yes that was the Cook's debut Monty Panasar got Tendulka out Tendulkar out that's right and it was his debut as well wasn't it Monty's debut that's quite a good possible run chase at the end I seem to recall but India is a fantastic place to go watch cricket yes of course it is

you go and in those days there used to be a week and a half between games It wasn't quite as desperately tight schedule as it is now. So you'd meet a couple of... I always used to go on my own because no one else could just pick up and go like that. So you'd always meet people. You'd have a week or 10 days to travel from one ground to the next.

And, you know, it's a fantastic way to spend a month or two, the cricket notwithstanding. That tour, there was a plane strike. Yes. And so we went up... So you did the first test in Calcutta. Yes. Okay, so we had come up from Bourbon Eshwa.

Mysteriously, the Indian team found some sort of airline that was still operating, but we had nothing. We were on a train overnight with the players, in a sleeper, and we chug, chugged, chugged up to Calcutta. And that was how our players prepared for that match. So you just flew straight in there? I flew to Calcutta and then I trained it around. Trained it around.

And Eden Gardens as well. They are. Well, they are. There can't have been many English people sitting in that ground. It's hardly anyone. I mean, you're always, you know, I was desperately worried before I went thinking, would we get in, would we get a ticket? but actually I think it was the end of that

not where was it, it was Mo Harley where was the tour where they played Mojali Ahmedabad and Bangalore. That was a few years later, maybe ten years later. Yes. And I remember sitting in the stand we'd lost in Mo Harley and I stayed on and I think I was probably the only England supporter

left at that point and the whole stand stood up and sang London Bridge is falling down at me which is joy. Yeah it is. And sitting there and that is one of the biggest cricket grounds in the world, isn't it? I mean, I'm about to take it over it.

Yeah, but to sit there and to sense it. And just even arriving. I mean, can you remember what it was like? Your first day turning up for a test match? I mean, India is very discombobulating anyway, isn't it? It's very, it's a quiet, an overpowering sensory experience. You are bewildered almost from the moment you get there and entranced and, you know, and just trying to find the ground, make your way in.

And then to be, you know, because I've seen it so much. times on telly, especially during geography lessons when I was nine and ten. It's an amazing experience. I think it's one of the great grounds to go to in the world and see a match played. Yeah. I mean, they're there this winter. Right. It's perhaps not quite a, it's more challenging. It's a bit more challenging. It's a bit more challenging. It's a bit more difficult. Now I have three children to just pick up and go. It doesn't go down that well. Do you remember the madras test of that series when a large number of the England team went down ill so gooch was ruled out ill and others yeah um mike gating dropped a catch i don't remember

it i only managed one day because i got ill as well did you you want to do that same dinner were you phantom illness yeah but i spent some very uncomfortable times in a cheap hotel right uh not feeling very good so he really did it properly did you yes yes well i had no money as well because i was just just left drama school uh so i was scratching around trying to get acting work. So everything was done on the absolute cheap. Yeah.

Bombay or Mumbai, there was this brilliant runout involving Alex Stewart and Mike Atherton would be England captains. That was one of the most extraordinary things. You were competing on the whole series. Yes, we were there.

Yeah. Watching it, I mean, it was a tough tour, wasn't it? It was a tough tour. How much of that sort of, you know, behind the scenes stuff do you... So, you know, you always wonder as a cricket fan listening to you guys

how much are we getting, how much gossip are you, obviously you can't pass on. I know, you think we're getting most of the... You listen to us. Yeah, I mean it helps if you stay in the same hotel as a place. You obviously pick up stuff. Yeah. And so generally on the tour I do it sort of every other

hotel if we can because it's important to be in touch with what's going on but that tour in every way was a shambles and not say not helped by the plane strike of getting people around and on the trains and Yeah. It's not what you would Norman expect.

Then Goffey's Hattrick. Yes. At Sydney, you were there for that. I was there for Sydney, the test we lost, Goughie's hat trick, and I was there at the MCG for the test we won. So I actually saw England win a test in Australia. That was an amazing game. It wasn't amazing.

I think we won by 12 runs. Yes, with Steve War batting on and choosing to bat on. Bat on. Absolute tree. We, my dad took us, my mom was no longer, my mom passed away by that point. So my dad decided we needed a bit of a break. And my dad's Irish, never played cricket in his life, but became friends with several journalists

and actually became an honorary member of the Press Golfing Society. I think he's maybe the only non-journalist ever to do that. And we became friends with Ian Waldridge and Bill Bateson. Right. So we... Woolridge is a great sports writer for the man. Great sports writer. So we went down to...

He said, we're going to go to Australia. I'm not interested in the cricket, but you go if you like. and on the a couple of days before Christmas he said Ian's asked if we want to have Christmas dinner with a couple of people called Ian Chappell

and Richie Benno so do those names mean anything to you I was like are you kidding me is that right? Yes I said what so we had Christmas lunch with Ian and Barbara Ann

and Daphne and Richie Benno and Ian Wildridge and his wife and my dad had no clue really you know about cricket at all, and couldn't sort of quite comprehend how this for me was the most extraordinary thing I'd ever had. And then all the way through the next two tests, Richie would meet me for a

drink after every day's play, and we'd have a drink, and he'd discuss the play. You know, he's sort of... Does a glass of white wine for Rich? Exactly. Kind of, um, sort of pinch yourself stuff. That's incredible, though. Yeah. But Dad had no idea. Dad had no idea. And someone had brought, I remember for Christmas lunch, you know there's sort of things that girls like Deely Boppers, those sort of plastic things you put on your head with sort of boingy and everyone had been... Don't say Richie were one of those.

Richie was the only one who declined. There is no way. He declined. There's no way. Would you mind if I don't? Even on Christmas Day that Richie would wear one of those. Ian Chappell did though.

And Ian Chappell kept telling me that he'd only just recently started drinking wine because this was a new thing for him. Okay. He drank beer his whole life and he thought wine is not a drink for him. Two very different characters.

Very different characters indeed. Did you meet up with them subsequently? I mean... Yes, well, I'm not Ian, but Richie, I... Another good friend of mine, David Norrie, who's a journalist,

would host these lunches in London every summer. And Richie would come along. And there would be a whole array of incredible sort of sporting. People, there may be only eight or ten of us at the lunch. But I remember once being sat

between Petro Sullivan and Richie Penno. So we had the voice of horse racing, the voice of cricket, and the voice of Postman Pat. Well, but that's, that's remarkable, really. It is for a sort of someone who's not involved in the game in any way. Yes, but he loves it. But who loves it.

So that was, that was fantastic. Goff's hat trick. I remember standing up and screaming my head off, you know. Were you down at the hill end or? It was the opposite side. I was kind of, I was kind of on my own. I got whatever tickets I could scrounge or beg or borrow. So I was in all sorts of different parts of the ground each day.

Did Richie tell story? I mean, Richie, I do Richie fairly well, and I work with Richie. But I was always a bit scared of Richie, simply because, you know, when you're in my profession, that is just someone, you know, he's up there. Yeah, of course. So I was always a little bit intimidated by Richie, really. Yeah.

So I never, I mean, I socialised them a couple of times with a glass of chardonnay as he would like. But, I mean, would he tell stories? Would he sit back? I mean, the stuff with a silly hat, he would never wear that. Never wear that, no. But was he? It was great company.

I remember asking him, when was the last time he saw a winter? He said, 1963. But, yeah, you know, we would meet in a bar, and there would be a stream of Australians queuing up to pay homage to the great man and say hello to him and then give a cursory glance at me, think, who are you? To be able to sit with, you know, this demi-god.

Well, that's an absurd story. That's incredible. It was joyful. Well, lucky you. We've got to talk about acting. I mean, we talk about all-rounders. I mean, you have done so many things. And in every format.

Yeah, I don't know how that's happened. It's not been planned, but I think if I'm asked to do something and it intrigues me, I'll try and do it. I think it's partly the challenge. So I started off as an actor and refused to do any acting apart from stage acting for five years. I just decided that was the way to be a great actor, was to play the great parts.

Serious stuff? You know, mostly Shakespeare and Shore and Molière. And I didn't want to be the fifth person from the left at the national, the RSC. I wanted to play the... So I'd go all around the country playing... I did that for five years

and then round the world on, you know, tours, toured much ado for nine months to New York and Moscow and Barcelona and Sweden, Paris. So that was fantastic. And then I got the chance to audition to play Adrian Moll.

And I'd love those books. I am the sort of same age as Adrian was. I'd read those books when I was 13 in three quarters. I was brought in to meet the Great Sioux Townsend. Who's lovely? Lest a woman. What's a woman.

She's a view for the back. Yeah, she was a lovely lady. And she was losing her eyesight at that point. And she explained to me in the audition that Adrian Moll could not be played by a good-looking actor. Oh. And then she brought out a massive magnifying glass and came up to within about three inches of my face

and perused me all over and said, you're perfect. So that was when I sort of moved into television. played Adrian Mole, ended up playing a doctor in a show for Channel 4 called Green Wing. And that was then I, you know, I realised that it wasn't just the great parts. It was the people you're working with that are just an important. You learn as much from as the part you're playing. So then I've, from then I've just taken whatever stuff has interested me.

And it has led to a lot of different stuff, yeah. I mean, that's partly because I've got a sort of itchy brain and I want to try stuff if it comes along. it's partly because I've got three big sons who clean me out for food every week and I don't trust the acting industry to be there for me I don't think you ever feel comfortable as an actor that you're going to be working so I suppose you just try and diversify a bit

so that if one area of your life doesn't quite come through for you there'll still be food on the table I suppose is the idea but yeah so I've ended up doing presenting I do that art program for Sky, portrait artist of the year, which is great fun with Dame Joan Bakewell. Right. We've been to the gallery, by the way, now it's reopened.

No, I have to go. Oh, really? Oh, we're in a national portrait gallery, right? Yes, we've got. Yeah. Just recently reopened. Yes, it has. It's magnificent.

Right. Mm, go. So we've got the final of landscape artist of the year on Monday at the Royal Opera House. We're on the roof of the Royal Opera House, the painting, the kind of piazza. We should try. We were at Ascot last summer. We did two days at Ascot. and I've always wanted to get them down to a cricket match

but they have these huge great pods that need kind of 40, 50 feet of width and I just, unless we stick around the edge of the boundary I don't quite know where they would go or whether there's room on the roof of a stand somewhere so I'm not sure that's going to work but yeah I do stuff on the radio I do a confessional show on the radio which I'd love to get you on one day

Oh really? Well, I've heard about this. Yeah, Radio 4 well you've come on mine I'll come on mine will you you have to confess three things that you're ashamed about where do I start

okay all right you know you feel guilty about that's a deal we've taken our cue from because you know in the Catholic church when you confess you can't see your confess you're both in separate booths so when we record it I make sure that we're in separate booths

so we can't look into each other's eyes I think there's something about not being able to see the eyes of the person you're talking to that makes you open up a bit more. Is that your idea in that program? It wasn't my idea. It's a good idea, but it wasn't my idea. Yeah, all right, that's a deal. Okay.

What's it like, I mean, Richie Bedrow in my case, you know, demigod and everything else? I would think for an actor, if you come up with someone who's really well-known and very, very famous, is that quite intimidating and that you've actually got to prove to them too that you're worthy of being on stage

them or in a film with them or whatever maybe. I think, yeah, there's two different, there's one which is when you work with someone and you hope that whatever the initial impressions might be, that you'll have a good working relationship and it'll be sort of mutual respect or at least, you know, a way of living together. It's when you meet your heroes that it can be tough.

I was at a film festival in New York and Robert De Niro happened to me in the same room as me and I'd never met him, I never worked with him, but I, you know, what an actor. I always wanted to meet him. And I'm not the sort of person. who can go up to people and go, hello, you know, or just a chat. So I really sort of girded my loins, and I had a couple of full starts of walking over

to him. And then I saw him on his own, and I thought, do it now. So I walked over to him, and I said, hello, I'm Robert De Niro. And he looked at me, slightly confused to start with, and then a bit annoyed. And he said, no, I'm Robert De Niro. And I had. And I had, had to go, I, yeah, yeah, sure, sorry, and that was it, I had to walk away. So horrendous. That's disastrous. Terrible. Don't meet your heroes and don't be an idiot when you do it like me. No, no, no. You seem a funny fellow. You know what I mean? I mean, do you like comedy. I do like comedy, yeah. And you also play straight, I mean, the split was kind of a bit of a tragic sort of fellow, really, wasn't he? But you do you have a great sense of humour and therefore, I would assume

you lend us off to more comedic situations, do you or not? I think it's maybe, I think it's, maybe, I I think it's, I mean, I think I started off doing drama on the stage, but the audience are 40 feet away on the stage. Once the camera came in, I started doing television and film, I got a lot of comic work, which I can only assume is because I've got a funny face or something odd about my face that makes people laugh rather than feel, you know, sad or whatever. But yeah, I do more drama now. I think you just go with the way the wind blows.

And I played a part in Alan Partridge, fairly all in my career. That was... Which has, you know, set me off in that sort of part. Well, when I was reading you and researching it, I saw that you've been Alan Partchall. Which one's he been in then? Went through it, and there it was, Dan. I mean, it was just...

That was one of my favourite episodes. And it must be, like dear old Joe Mangler we had on here. And Roger Lloyd Pack, right, Dave, you know, with him. Dan must... It follows me everywhere I go. Must do. I'm a Tottenham Hotspur fan, and I gave an interview on the pitch at half time,

and I had 60,000 Spurs fans all shouting down at me. I've walked inadvertently into, you know, dining rooms or places or, you know, arenas if I'm on a gig, if this chant gets going. But, you know, there are worse things people can shout at you. Well, there are. It is affectionate. Yeah, dear old, dear old Dan, didn't quite turn out how Alan wanted it to be, really. No, it didn't.

He was. I want to pointless, which is something at a programme I love watching. I know lots of people do. And again, that's big shoes that you're, is it sort of temporarily? Literally big shoes. yeah indeed but in and out a bit but that are you enjoying that's a different sort of a role i mean i'm absolutely i love a quiz i will go anywhere and travel anywhere and do anything i've been in every quiz i've been asked to do on telly mastermind catchphrase uh pointless 15 to one

you know weakest link you name it did you celebrity mastermind i did i'm doing that in a month i'm quite scared now what up what's your subject not like to say okay i felt it was like doing an A level. I worked so hard. Did you? Making notes. How did you get on? I did all right. Did you win?

I did. But the general knowledge, the general knowledge, you can't do anything about. You're either going to get it or you're not. So, you know, it's fun. And it's more fun now that John Humphreys isn't there being terrifying. Yeah, now I'm anxious.

Stephen, look, the players in the middle, all ready. Wendy Leston, following on from Stephen Mangon's view from the Banger with Agus, can I suggest he invited to be a guest commentator, very knowledgeable about the game, a great voice for radio and he's been entertaining

addition to the team. There you go. I think you've passed the voice on the boundary testing. Great face for radio too. That's our well-worn line. Yeah, I bet. Lovely to have met you.

Thank you. I'm so glad you finally made it. I am so delighted. Thanks for having me. Thank you. The TMS podcast. Keep up to date with live text and highlights during the match

on the BBC Sport website and app. Just why are there so many cricket? murder mysteries. I think the best way to explain it is as an evolving human drama, a contest between two teams that with each ball bowled by the bowling team to the batting team shifts the narrative in some way. Listen to the cricket and crime episode of She Done It with special guest Andy Zaltzman, available now on BBC Sounds.