Test Match Special - Ashes Eve - it's almost time

Episode Date: November 20, 2025

The Men's Ashes are nearly upon us and the TMS preview features interviews with both Ben Stokes and Steve Smith, plus an exclusive chat with England Head Coach Brendon McCullum.

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. To embrace the impossible requires a vehicle that pushes what's possible. Defender 110 boasts a towing capacity of 3,500 kilograms, a weighting depth of 900 millimetres and a roof load up to 300 kilograms. Learn more at landrover.ca. The TMS podcast on BBC Sounds. Hello, this is Eleanor Aldroyd, Perth on the eve of the most anticipated Ashes series in living memory. The sun has been

shining, the pitch has been rolled, and the sides have been going through their final preparations. Shortly, we'll be hearing from both captains, plus an exclusive interview with England head coach Brendan McCullum in conversation with Phil Tufnell. Excitement here in Australia could not be greater. by hearing from the England skipper. Before training this afternoon, our chief cricket commentator, Jonathan Agnew, spoke to Ben Stokes.

Well, Ben, 24 hours ago, how does it feel? I guess you're being asked this all the time, aren't you? Yeah, good. Obviously, always the day before, a big series like this, the day before the opening game, there's always slightly different emotions and you just want it to come, but yeah, we're all very, very excited and desperate to get going.

Yeah, I mean, have you been sort of always fix, sated on it the first day of the ashes. I mean, has it been there in your mind for weeks, months? Yeah, weeks, months, you know, for obvious reasons. It's a huge series that we're about to start tomorrow and there's been a lot of time and effort put into this physically, mentally, to prepare for this next two and a half months. So, yeah, I think once we get going, once we get over that line and, you know, the battle between the two sides starts, yeah, it's an exciting thing to think about. Yeah it is. Did you ever have any worries that you wouldn't be doing it? No. You always knew you'd be fit. Yeah. No question at all. No,

that's good. And when do you know, therefore actually actually know that you would be able to be fit to play? Oh, once I got scan results on my shoulder. Yeah, it was pretty, there's obviously a long break in between that end of that series and the starting. So yeah, there was more than enough time and there was never any doubt that everything was going to go swimmingly and smoothly with the rehab and had enough time to build up and yeah been 100% fit now for five six seven weeks yeah and you've had plenty of overs I mean you you really are good to go as in full full throttle yeah okay that's good news and that must be really

good for you to have that confidence at the start yeah obviously but as I said like the last couple of injuries I've had is sort of been a race against time with the time between getting injured and then the next series but this one was you know was months and the injury itself was, what, seven, eight weeks before I was bowling again. And then, so that gave me loads of time to be able to get my loads back up and get everything in order. Yeah.

What about the ashes for you then, Ben? I mean, it's in a way where it began for you, isn't it, with that first 100? Not on this ground, but the same city. Big moment that was for you. What does this whole thing mean to you? Well, the ashes, it's, you know, the history of England v. Australia, obviously goes back for 140 years. And, yeah, every time, every series that I've been apart,

of whether it be it here or back at home in England it's an amazing thing to be a part of you know you put a lot of effort into every single test match every single series you play but there's always certain series that i think just take a little bit more out of you physically mentally and this is one of us yeah do you talk about it as a team do you talk about the history and and all of that of the ashes do you sit there and chat about it oh not really I think everyone's just aware of it. Everyone knows, you know, we know that there's been some incredible achievements before us, but what we're really focused on is our opportunity to, you know, put ourselves and put this team into the history books and be one of few England teams. We've managed to come to Australia and return back with the own. Yeah, and it does feel like that. I mean, this is like, not career-defining, it sounds a bit over the top,

but I mean, as a captain, I mean, captains are known as Ashes winning captains, aren't they? I mean, it just kind of rolls off the tongue. Is it that for you? Is that like a defining moment for you, do you think, in your captain's thing? Oh, look, I've got no, you know, illusions as to how big the series is in the context of my time as England captain. Baz knows that

he's under no illusion about his time as England coach how big the series is the same as Rob Key so look we're accepted that we're embracing that pressure and everything that comes with that as well but

you know we're not sort of fixated on the idea that this is going to be detrimental to what we've given to English cricket in our time we obviously know the goal that we want to achieve here come mid-January and we'll be doing everything possible in our powers to achieve that goal and I know that these series are

always picked out of anyone's time as a player as a captain coach whatever it may be but you know all I know is that since I've been given the opportunity to lead this team out I've given absolutely everything that I possibly can in terms of my the physical side the mental side of being a professional sportsman and I'll always continue to to do that. Yeah. Why have England struggled here over the years? What is it about coming to Australia that makes it so difficult?

Australia always have been and always will be a very, very good team wherever they go. And in particular here, England's record over the last, since 2010, everyone's aware of. Everyone's been very vocal about that and we're aware of that as well. We take that on board, but we, as I said, this is our time to put our own mark and and Asher's team and in particular England teams coming to Australia. Yeah. But Joe Root, again, there's a lot to talk with, inevitably about him not having scored 100 here.

I see Matthew Hayden has said he's going to run naked around the MCG if he doesn't score. And I wouldn't expect you to do that then. I mean, that's quite a nailed on endorsement, isn't it, about Joe Root, do you think? Yeah, I mean, God, it's, you know, like trains, they're eventually going to come, aren't they? And with Joe, you know, he's a world-class player,

has been for a very long time, 13 and a half thousand runs, runs 38 test hundreds. So, look, he's obviously desperate to always contribute to this test team and they don't necessarily always mean hundreds. I know that he wants to go out there and score 100 every single time he does. But the main thing for Joe is that if he's contributing towards teams, to the team that he's playing for winning, that's the main thing for him. and over these five games if he manages to knock that 100 off then that'll be good for him

but it'll be great scenario if we win and if Joe doesn't score 100 then we get to see Mattie Hayden run around naked as well that's not pretty sight I think it'll be horrible I suppose yeah preparation come on this

I know there's been lots of talk about that and you've had a few comments about people commenting on it could you be better prepared for do you think is there any way that you could have been better prepared for this iconic series starting tomorrow? Physically, we're ready. Mentally, we're ready. That's enough. In terms of first-class matches or whatever it might be, because it is unique, isn't it?

I mean, you can see why people have talked about it. It's just not the way it's normally done, but I guess you go away and you prove people wrong. Physically we're ready, mentally we're ready. Okay. What about the Aussies then? No Cummins, no Hazelwood. It's a golden opportunity, isn't it? Look, when you lose two players in your team who are obviously two standout performers and have been for a long time, but obviously it does hurt. I've been in that situation before where we've unfortunately lost a very crucial player with our team. But as we all know, an international sport, you can replace someone with someone who's very good as well. We won't be taking this game any easier or any more likely than we would if Pat and Josh were playing because we know Australia.

incredibly competitive team very passionate about sport very passionate about cricket and the two guys who you know step in to replace pat and josh in this game we know that we're going to be in for a tough challenge just as much as we find ourselves up against when we play pat and josh so yeah look we won't be treating this any different as we would if australia were able to field what we think would be their best of them as we speak you haven't named your 11 but i think we can probably guess what it's going to be So, I mean, five quick bowlers, that's, again, not common. Is that so you can use Mark Wood in shorter bursts?

Normally, we obviously have morning training the day before. So me and Brendan have done our last sort of checks throughout, wicket, see how everyone's going, and then we can give you a team, but we're afternoon training here, so we actually haven't managed to do that yet. So, yeah, we'll have a final decision later on. Cut the diplomat. Last thought, Ben.

Sydney, just looking ahead, I mean, you looking ahead to that? looking ahead to maybe, yeah, winning the ashes here, winning test matches for the first time in series, in 15 years. I mean, all of that, are you looking down the line or is it just a day at a time? I think, yeah, I think my flight home is January 14th or something like that. So, yeah, it'd be nice to step on that plane, achieving the goal that we've all set out to. But we've got tough two and a half months ahead of us to be able to achieve that goal. It's not going to be easy, it's going to be very tough. We know the challenge we're for but yeah we're prepared well our chief cricket commentator jonathan agnew is sitting with me we've

just heard from ben stokes jonathan he answers the questions he wants to answer he doesn't answer the questions he doesn't want to answer you know so he put you away about the about the preparation but you know that he feels what the responsibility of what lies ahead i think definitely i mean it's a typical joust with ben it's it's the way it usually goes and yeah i mean you can you can you can You can try and get those questions in there, but he was having none of it, was he? But I thought he was actually really quite serious and quite thoughtful,

contemplative. You know, I mean, as a visiting captain to go into an Ashes series when you know the history and you know how one-sided it is and they haven't won a match here, you know, since they won the Ashes here in 10-11. I mean, not to win a single game.

You know, it's a terrible record, isn't it? It really is. But then a mark of that is that Australia been a good thing. but it does demonstrate how difficult it is to come here and to win. Now, I think that actually England had got a good chance this time. I really do. I think, and particularly, again, he was a bit guarded about the Hazelwood and Cummins question, wasn't he, about what a, you know, Philip that is for England.

And he kind of tapped it away, but, you know, it is. This is such an opportunity for England. It's a green pitch, grass on it. It's not going to be too hot. So, again, that's another thing. It's got, I mean, we've, a test match here where it was over 40 degrees one time some years ago. Not going to be, mid-20s, which is perfect again for England, it's pleasant. So all of those things, you know, you sort of add it all up, and you can see why maybe Ben Stokes is

is starting to think along those terms of the legacy and so on. Because he did, he talked about that, didn't he, and how important it is, and what it means. He said, sitting on the plane, you know, going back, having won. I mean, that is quite a dream, isn't it? And you look at those Ashes winning captains since the war here in Australia, so Hutton, Ellingworth, Brearley, Gatting, Strauss. Does Stokes have it in him, do you think, to join that list? I think definitely. I think absolutely. I mean, he is a leader.

He's not the sort of the hard fellow that people think he is. He's a bit of a softie, really. He's got his tattoos and he fronts up and so on. But he is a softie. I think he'll be a magnificent person to play for. I'd love to play on Stokes because you want your captain to be a leader and you want your captain to be up there at the front and not take a backward step

I think he's definitely got it in him I mean it's a question of how England play and I can't help but look back sometimes at that oval test match against India 70 to win two batsmen on hundreds seven wickets left day and a half to bat India broken

and they lost You know, it's things like that. They simply cannot afford here. You can't give Australia a second chance. They've got to hit the ground running tomorrow. That preparation will be an issue. Of course it will. And if it doesn't start well for England,

that will come back. That will come back to haunt them. Because it's unprecedented. Not to play a single proper game before a first test match in Australia. That's never been done before. And of course, they're getting lots of stick for that in the press here, aren't they?

You know, about not being bothered and carefree and everything and playing golf. Well, okay, that's fair enough. But if they do lose here and it doesn't get right in Brisbane and they're two nil down on the back of zero preparation and by the sounds of it, ducking out of the game between the two tests, then I think it could get ugly. It's also worth saying that Australia have been playing golf in the build-up to this as well, haven't they?

So they've all been out there on the course at the same time. But they've also been playing Sheffield Shield cricket. You know, Monash Lavershanes been racking up runs. Doggett got wickets of the day I watched him bowl actually I was quite impressed with him actually he swung a ball but at a good pace so

they have been playing could England have benefited from one first class match for Daya against Australia A or whatever I think that you should have at every tour before every test should always play against the A team it's beneficial for everybody for the host team the visitors

and for the quality of the cricket frankly you know if the players are warmed up properly well the answer is we just won't know we won't know if they'll have benefited from it but you could just see that that that is that's there in the background and they've got to prove people wrong those two debutants for Australia

Jake Wetherald and Brendan Doggett neither of them are spring chickens they're both 31 they've both got lots of experiences you say in shield cricket so but it's still going to be a huge moment for both of them particularly if Australia end up batting first

for Jake Wetherald I will I mean to go out there and open the batting I mean again it's a dream come true isn't it and they've done the right thing

they've announced it so that he knows he can get himself get his mind ready for it but there is a lot of inexperienced you know

Quad is 39 there is grass on that pitch and they're going to run in they're going to they're going to bomb Travis head he's not he's not a great player

of short pitch fast bowling he's going to get it on there you know all of that You can just see, yeah, go back to that point. I mean, England do really have an outstanding chance here. I just hope they take it. I just hope they remain focused.

Play grown-up, common-sense cricket and not flashing the pan-bass ball. Just, you know, nail down positions. When they are in a good position, nail it down. Don't give it away. You almost think that we can, whatever happens at the toss, we can almost guarantee that Australia will be batting and England will be bowling. Because England love to bowl first, and Australia almost always bat first.

Yeah, it'd be interesting to see, won't it? It really are. I mean, yes, I've got no doubts at all that Stokes will put him in. Even though the only five test matches played here, the team batting first has gone on to win. Yeah, well, that's true. I mean, the one against India here last year, both first innings were done by lunchtime on the second day.

So, I mean, it does a bit here, it does. And there is grass on it. I've got no doubts about England bowling first. It's interesting to see what Steve Smith does. You know, caretaker captain Pat Cummins is here He's bowling quite a lot actually In the nets

I think he'll probably play in Brisbane So therefore as the caretaker captain Do you put the other team in It's all that stuff for Smith to contemplate So yeah I mean actually I hope he can do bowl first Actually and we see them running in and bowling hard And bowling with controlled aggression

The problem is that coming here to Perth And I know it's not the same ground It's not the dear old Wacker Which was very fast and bouncy See, there is pace and bouncing, but the whacker was special. England have not bowled well here over the years. They've bowled too short. It's tempting to do so.

You see the ball flying through. You've almost got to bowl half volleys here, almost. You get the really full length, because the bats are inclined to be on the bat foot anyway, so therefore we've got to bowl that full of length. And England's record in Perth is terrible. So that's one of the reasons why bowlers just haven't quite hit that right length. So if they do start bowling first, they've got to get all the nerves out of the way and just get out there and bowl controlled, bowl control, bowling that channel,

bowl that full length, and hopefully they take the catches. Well, we know that Australia are without their regular Captain, Pat Cummins, and fellow Seamer Josh Hazelwood. But as we've been discussing, there are two debutsons with opener Jake Weatherald and fast bowler Brendan Doggett, both getting their chance on the biggest stage of them all. Let's hear now from stand-in Captain Steve Smith, who's been speaking to the ABC's Ben Cameron. Well, the Australian test captain, Steve Smith, joins us.

You've confirmed the team, two debutants for the first test. What can you tell us about Brendan Doggett and Jake Weatherald? Yeah, super excited for both of them. Yeah, I think they've worked incredibly hard the last, well, probably 10 years. But, you know, their performance is the last couple. You know, I've got them in the position they are now. They're playing extremely well. So look forward to them making their debuts, getting their baggy greens,

which is obviously a dream come true for them, playing in an Asher series in front of a packed house. So look forward to watching them and hopefully they bring their best the next few days. I don't think there's any more profile pieces to be written about either of them. What's one thing we wouldn't know about both of them? Oh geez, you're putting me on the spot there.

Not sure, Jake's drums a bit, plays a bit of guitar and Brendan, geez, I'm not sure. Yeah, tricky one, but yeah, look, super excited for the skills that they possess and look forward to watching watching them next few days. Yeah, new teammates.

I apologize for putting you on the spot. Massive Ashes build up. You've played in a number of these series. How has it felt for you? Pretty similar, actually. I think every Ashes has a big buildup with plenty of comments and words and what people think the teams are going to be, how the games are going to go and predictions and things like that.

So pretty normal. Just exciting that it's now here and we get to get out there and start the game. What's your earliest Ashes memory? My earliest Ashes' memories, probably the 05 series actually. Obviously, the series was incredible, arguably the best ever. And a lot of people are thinking this one's going to be the best since 05. So hopefully that's the case. I think what we've seen here at Perth Stadium is that the pitch play pretty similarly to what we used to have at the WACA ground.

It's been quick and bouncy. What are you anticipating this week from the pitch? Quick and bouncy. A bit of grass on it currently. I think it looks pretty similar to last year's game against India. I think the temperatures probably aren't going to be quite as hot as the India game, so potentially it may not crack up as much, but we'll wait and see. Last year we saw the Australian team lose this opening test here at Perth Stadium.

We had 14 of the 15 members of the squad playing shield cricket last week. feel like the team's more prepared this time around I don't know I don't think we can fault our preparation either way you know we've obviously got a few new bowlers in we lost a couple obviously in Paddy and and Hoff unfortunately but you know what we've got here is some some quality performers you know dogged and bowling get their opportunity and Jake obviously as we said before so you know we're excited by what we have here everyone's got a good set of skills that they're looking to showcase and yeah i look forward to seeing them mitchell stark's running in crawley's

on strike your captaining is there a deep point or a deep cover in place or is the field up we'll have to wait and see can't share too much but yeah we'll wait and see i heard it characterised that you and pat were debating that a lot in the last series by a journalist jared kimber do you recall it like that did you want the field more up did pat want them back how do you recall the discussions I won't say debates that you and Pat had about how to play against, in inverted commas, basball. Oh, I mean, I can't even remember, to be honest, but look, I think for me it's just about playing the game that's in front of us, and there'll be different scenarios where, you know,

we will look a bit more defensive and places where we'll be more attacking. And, you know, it's just about picking those moments live and not letting them pass. That's going to be important in this series. Last one. Stuart Broad says it's the best England team in 15 years. years. Do you see them as that? I think they're a good side. You know, I'm not diving into

who's better or worse or whatever, but you know, they're a good side. You know, we're looking forward to playing against them. Have plenty of good contests. So, yeah, hopefully it's an exciting summer. Bring more gear, carry more passengers, face greater challenges. Welcome to the world of Defender, with seating up to eight

ample cargo space and legend. off-road capability, it's built to make the most of every adventure. Learn more at landrover.ca. TMS at the Ashes. Well, what a series this is to look forward to. And all of the conversation during the course of the last few years is whether this will be the defining few weeks of the Basball Project. In an exclusive interview for BBC Sport, his great friend Phil Tuffnell

sat down with England head coach Brendan Baz McCullum on the eve of this historic series. Baz lovely to see you, mate. Lovely to see you too. Take first. What you've been doing? No, just enjoying Australia. Obviously, immense amount of excitement about what wants to come and now we're on the cusp of it. It's kind of at that stage we kind of, you just let go a little bit, right? Yeah.

You just enjoy the ride and see where it takes and see how we get on with things over next little while. Yeah, what the boys do today, as you say, start, start. tomorrow, doesn't it? It's buzzing in town, mate. Yeah, it's buzzing in town. That's good, though, isn't it? That's what you want. The biggest arena, that's what you play for. That's what you wanted as a kid and to get the opportunity to be standing on the start line. It's pretty exciting. So I'd say half of the boys who probably trained today, the other half, particularly the bowlers who have had a good hit out over the last few days and they're ready to go. They'll put their feet up, maybe head down

the beach, get a little bit of quiet time before we get into the cauldron of tomorrow. Absolutely. How are you feeling the day, mate? Good. I'm excited. Yeah. Different from playing? Yeah, it's way different from playing. But I got to ask this the other day. I loved my playing time, right? I mean, you and I've talked about it over the years.

I absolutely loved it. I feel like, you know, I was never a great player. I had great moments, but, you know, I got out of my career what I wanted to and I sort of left the game content. But coaching is so different. It's really rewarding. I think the ability to be able to, particularly when you're head coach, the ability to try and shape an environment and to create an environment where you're giving these guys hopefully the confidence to be able to go out there and exhibit their skills on the toughest stage and to try and bind them together and try and I guess come up with an environment where guys feel as if they've got an attachment to something and then create hopefully an identity to how you play and then see how it is under the brightest lights and the biggest stage and there's nothing bigger than what we're. we're about to come into.

Absolutely. I was going to say that. Do you feel that as one of the guys? And how do you sort of manage, as you say, it's absolutely kicking outside. You know what I mean? Everyone's so excited. Think we got a great chance as well. You know, so there's that expectation.

How do you manage that with the boys? They feel that obviously? Look, I'm sure there's some nerves within the group, no, yeah, as they will be amongst the Aussie boys too. And I think in the past we've really tried to insulate ourselves from a lot of the outside noise noise and the expectations and the pressures. I think, I mean, this team's been together now for a good couple of years and we've been, we have been building towards this moment.

So it's almost like, you know what, let's just lean into it now. But it is the biggest stage and it is the brightest lights and it is a series which could define teams and define first hour people and players within it. That's okay. I mean, yeah, you're going to feel nervous. You're going to feel anxious. But lean into it. You know you're ready, you know you've got the game to compete at this level and stay together, play the style that you've, you guys have become accustomed to over the last couple of years and just keep moving towards the target and we'll see in a couple of months where we land.

But look, I'm super excited. We're probably a bit more relaxed now than I was a few weeks ago because now we're on the cusp of it, you know. We've got our team to the start line and I feel like our horse is going to run well. Whether we find another horse in the race better than us, who knows? But we're looking forward to it. You think you've got the animal under you, do you? You think you've got the animal under you? I feel like we've got a little bit under the bonnet, yeah,

but you never really know until you open it up, right? And we'll find out. I mean, it guarantees us nothing, but we come here with huge hopes and aspirations. We're incredibly respectful of what Australia, the challenge that they present and how good they are in their own conditions and the size of the task at hand, but we couldn't be more excited and we're optimistic. Yeah. You said about, you know, defining moment.

Do you feel that a little bit of what you've been doing with this England side as well? It's a bit of a defining moment for you and Stokesy and or... Yeah, so I think you know me well enough as well, tough as I don't really think like that about... No. About myself. When Keesley put me in this role, it was a matter of trying to... Trying to give a little bit a little bit more oomph to the lads to get them to believe in their games and to try and simplify things and take away a lot of the noise.

and obviously this was the target which was a mind at the very start of that journey and from my point of view I never wanted necessarily to be a coach per se I always loved helping environments and helping people and they're trying to shape a set up here which gives them the greatest chance but for this team I guess it will define

the progress that we've made for me it is what it is but for some of the guys who have had amazing careers to be able to, Stokes in particular, for him to be able to lead England to an Ashes win away from home would be huge. We understand all that stuff, but you paint that picture at the start, but now it's about sort of being where your feet are, living in the moment, and just dealing with what comes. We'll be challenged on this tour, there's no doubt.

We'll have good days, we'll have bad days. But as long as we keep moving towards the target, and we're able to still play the style of play that we, that we've embedded over the last couple of years then we'll give ourselves the best chance you talk about the noise you've upset a few in the papers over here

arrogant pobs what is they talking about well I don't read the paper so that doesn't really you know for me it doesn't matter but what is it the western males they've been having an absolute field date water off a duck's back yeah I guess some of that stuff's pretty cool too

like I mean I remember tough when I was Captain in New Zealand, I walked in after a press conference, and there was three journalists there. And I was thinking at the time, gee, we've got to have cricket been a bigger space than this, surely, you know? So how do we get relevance? How do we get more eyeballs on what we're doing? And then when walked in a lords that day, the first day that took the job with England, and there was 65 journalists there. I thought, right, this is more lucky, you know? There is a big stage.

There is a lot of eyeballs, and there is a lot of relevance to what you're doing. and you know it's not always champagne and caviar you know there's there's times where you're going to be criticised there's times where it's going to be hard and you've just got to hang on the back of the speedboat to keep going you know until until you get to a few calmer waters and that's the fun of it you know that is the fun of it how do you how do you stay level calm balanced and and forward thinking when the pressure is at its highest and and that's what excites me about the challenge and that's one of the reasons why I took the job and now we're on the cusp of the biggest series

with the brightest lights and the most scrutiny you've got to look forward to that yeah. Bring it on. A little bit of unfinished business with Ozzy? No, yes. Well, for all you fellas who all played before as well. Well, you're not the report now, mate. Yeah, I mean, we're very aware there's 719 players that have played cricket

for England and we're respectful and we're trying to lean into the history of what's gone before and and understand that there will be cricketers that go after us as well. During the time that we've got as custodians of the English cap and the English dressing room, it's up to us to lay everything out there and to put everything on the table

and to be a good representation of us as players, the environment that we've created, and ultimately try and get the best out of the talent that we possess. If we do that, there's no guarantees, but we'll give us our best chance. Do you feel it's a little bit different, you know, play, there's a fantastic career, New Zealand and all around the world and everything. Do you feel that there's just a little bit something different, you know, England? Yeah, different.

Yeah, of course there is. I mean, even us as growing up, we're, I mean, we were Sydney going, gee, it'd be nice to be involved in that series. Wouldn't it, how much fun does that look? England versus Australia, the ashes. I mean, it's just, it captivates world, world. You used to watch it at a lot of, yeah. 100% we used to watch it, yeah. And, you know, it doesn't just captivate world cricket,

but it almost transcends the sport of cricket into other sports. I mean, I've had so many messages from people in different sports around the world from different countries and all sort of wishing you luck saying they're going to be watching this series. And that's so exciting to being the thick of it, to be in the very middle of it and being able to sit back in the best seat in the house and watch some of the best players play is incredibly humbly. Saying sitting back watching it, are you going to be, are you going to be feet up with the shades on as usual? Are you going to be a bit more, a bit more at it?

I can't imagine I'll be a bit more at it. I mean... No, just the way you go. It's just, I feel lucky to be in the position we're in, you know? Like, it really is, I mean, we understand the size of the task, but we ain't trying to cure cancer. No. We're trying to win a few games of cricket. That's it. And we're trying to represent all that's gone before, live in the moment, trying to achieve the tasks at hand

and do it in a style and a manner, which you've tried to embed over the last couple of years. So to me, yes, there is going to be pressure, but just be yourself, lads. Just go there and do the best job that you possibly can, and we'll see where we land. Watch the ball. Watch the ball.

You remember that, no. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, that was... Just don't wash the ball. Yeah, just watch the ball, lads. And you've got the New Zealand sort of mafia over here helping you, haven't you? What's the... What's the all-black chap?

Gilbert Anoka. Yeah, go on. What's his going? Well, we've got a few Kiwis, yeah. And I guess like you say, when you're in these jobs, right, you want to... You surround yourself with the people that you think are the best people to help. And, you know, the Kiwis that we do have, and the coaching staff and the support staff that we do have. It's been a process to get to the stage and I feel like we've got this really balanced, calm, positive support staff which sit in behind the players.

We're able to alleviate pressure, who are able to keep pushing the boys towards the ultimate goal. And you try and shape your set up, in any organisation you go to, you try and shape your set up to allow a layer of protection from the noise and that which is outside and keep pushing the guys towards going out there. testing their skills on the biggest stage and saying it's okay if it doesn't work out, go again, keep going. And Gilbert, he's kind of the final piece in that pie. I know in Gilbert for a long time. He was... Was he the old psycho boy, is he? Well, he's, I don't really know his title per se. Probably not that. He keeps things unbelievably simple. Does he? Yeah, I mean, his stories... I might have to have a chat with him. You'd love him, actually. He'd love him toughest. He might have been a great third wheel on that TV show,

actually but he um so i've known gilbert for a long time i'm sure he won't mind me saying it's it's been open with his his upbringing grew up in an orphanage he's are a tongan boy who's very humble and very balanced and he thought there's got to be more life than this and he said about trying to be the best version of himself he could and it kind of gravitated then towards not just his own life but then towards helping others shaping others and giving them a simplistic view of of building teams and trying to get the most out of yourself and he was my neighbour for a while work with him at New Zealand cricket for the period of time

and when we got to this kind of last bit of where we were at where we are as a team leading into this series his name sprung out of my head and I rang him and I said Bert can we have a chat and so I flew down to Christchurch and saw him and we had three hours together and explained sort of

where we'd come from where I feel like we're at and what the next steps are for us with the challenge which lay ahead and he said straight away And typical Bert fashion, he said, it's so easy, Baz, you guys are so close to being able to get yourselves ready for the biggest series. And he talks like that. There's no guarantees in everything. But I said to him, would you come on board? He said, I'd absolutely love to have been an honour to come and help you guys.

And he's been brilliant since he came on board. And I think the guys have really appreciated this simplistic view and take on how he's gone about things. And also the collective manner with which he talks. and some of the strategies and tactics he's able to pass on to the lads too so we're lucky to have him he's in my opinion the very best in his field in the world that I've come across and I'm sure there's many other great people out there but knowing that I've come across that's as good as what he is in his field and we're lucky to have him and I'm sure the boys appreciate his his presence around the group and what he's done for us so far you touched on tactics there a little bit

Have you got sort of like an operations room, you know, with sort of, you know, sub-beautio cricket out? Whiteboards analysis, because a lot's been made about grueling tour, tough tour, done it twice down here, hard tour, fast bowlers, rotation and all this. Have you got it all planned out? You've always been a bit of a gut-feel kind of guy, haven't you? Yeah, I like to be playing as well, though. I think for me, it's like your instinct is able to unfold. Yeah, that's, and your intuition instinct is able to unfold in the most pressurized moments when you have a layer of preparation and tactical acumen and preparation in behind you. So we don't sit down and have long-winded meetings, right?

But we're constantly, and this is across our support staff and the captain. No, we're always having informal conversations, whether it be over coffee, over a meal, at the golf course over a beer at the beach at training whatever it is we're always trying to have these informal conversations where we're prompting discussion and thought around

what your tactics is going to be like we know coming down here the wickets are different to what we get back home we know the cook-bar is a different challenge we know where Australia is going to look to try and target us with both bat and bull we know the hostility of the crowd and the boundary sizes and the heat we know all that stuff so put all that into the

melting pot now in your own way and alongside your team mate's style of play because they are all complementary how does that come about giving you the level of preparation in detail to now go out there and play with the instinct and feeling ten-foot tool and bulletproof and be in a moment and let that stuff come out and that's kind of giving everything away

that's kind of that's the kind of simple that's a simple approach that we like to operate with and I think I mean it doesn't guarantee you but again it gives you your best chance we feel in the group that we've got yeah well just on that then I mean do you keep one eye on the Aussies or is it

just about look we look after ourselves obviously have a little look see what they're doing and everything yeah definitely of course you do but it's all about us moving forward yeah I'd say I mean it's about us getting to the start line full of belief and

and clearing our thoughts about how we want to play but part of that is understanding what they're trying to do. We're areas where you think you might be able to drill down on and other areas where you know you've got to be a little bit sort of solid when they come at you. And I think that's all part of it. And look, the guys prepare unbelievably well, though. They're as hard a working team as I've ever seen.

They're also very well balanced. And I think that gives them the best opportunity to perform. Stokesy all right? Flying. Yeah? Absolutely fine. Yeah. Looks fit.

Looks fit. Fit? Proper fit, isn't he? He's flying. I mean, he couldn't. Emotionally, he's in the best place I've seen him. From a leadership point of view, I've not seen him in a better space as well. And obviously, physically, and he's ready to go.

And, you know, he knows that this is a huge moment for him as well. And I think the key is that, and this is where the leadership around him, his greatest attribute is the leader is getting the very, best out of all those around him. So yes, he's a great leader from the front, but our best chance is for him not just to lead from the front, but to get the very best out of all those guys around him. Keep pushing them towards the danger, keep being there as a protective layer if things don't quite quite go right in that first moment and asking him to go again, that's the strength he's got as a leader. He doesn't flinch. And if he cannot flinch over the next

couple of months, which I don't think he will, again, that gives us our best chance. I mean, it's such a big thing in it, coach, captain. I mean, it was just a piece of cake. Yeah, well, I mean, most people... Wasn't you know, that relationship, you know? Yeah, well, Stokes and I, like, we knew each other a little bit before, you know, we came to his jobs, but I wouldn't say we're tied. There was a respect there for both how we both went about things, and, you know,

but since taking on this job and us working together, I think we've become good mates, you know, and I think we've both got very... similar vision for this team and what we're trying to achieve and we've got both got healthy perspective on where the game is in regards to life in general and yeah but also being fiercely determined and and competitive and we also both like getting the best out of the people that are around you and I think we we are very similar in a lot of ways and we're different in other ways too which I think balances itself out but I'm very lucky as a coach to in a time that you've

gotten a job as big as this to have a captain touch is Stokesy and I feel very privileged to get the opportunity to not just work with him in this role but also to get to know him and call him a good mate. And all the boys are fit well, hammies and... How's Bash's finger all right? Good. Yeah? Bowling all right, is he? Bowling good, bowling good.

And I mean, Bash, what a kid he is. You know? He hardly plays for his county, which is fine, but he comes in here and he is just... He's just a champion, you know? He's a gun bowler. gun bowler and the thing for him is it's not let too much stuff in just go bowl just go and do your thing you know just trying to take wickets a little bit of this little bit of that yeah a little bit of that every now and then compete

get in the battle have that presence you've got we love him to bits and you know even if he doesn't play in this game this first one there will be a time in the series where where bash can win us a test match absolutely and that's it I mean that's exciting to be the age there is we've seen how tough he is 21 or 22 years of age coming out with a broken hand against India and spinning that last wicket getting us a test when you saw the boys what he means to this team and what this team means to him and his moment will come yeah amazing that he actually rolled back and then went that way didn't it yeah I was

confidence accident it's bizarre wouldn't it I was like that it done a zigzag so so yeah so just really excited day to come keeping your feet on the ground boys just up for tomorrow and let's bring it on boys you know i mean we've got everyone behind you mate we will be there in force i'll tell you something that the whole the amount of people i saw on the plane coming over just so buzzing for it so up for it so excited for it yeah we feel that too yeah you do yeah there's but yeah there's going to be there's going to be challenges there's going to be you know criticism there's going to be people flying at us but we equally that in our corner there's what 60, 70,000 English flying over, you know, flying all that

way from the Northern Hemisphere down here to to hit Australia to support this team and we'll feel that and we know that the support we're going to get and we know the support we've had over the last few years and we cherish that and we'll do our very best over the next couple of months to try and lay down a marker and achieve something special knowing that it's not easy but yeah we're excited for it and can't be able to get in. Donnie wants ticking. Dutch Duchess is here. Dutch, Duchess wants ticking.

There we go. That'll keep you all straight and narrow for the next couple of months too. It will do. Listen, Bats, listen, all the very best, mate. And just good luck, mate. Play well, enjoy. Smile on your face.

And go well, mate. Thanks, nice to see you, brother. You too. The TMS podcast on BBC Sounds. match special is the only place to listen to full ball-by-ball coverage of the men's ashes, with every ball live and exclusive from Australia on five sports extra and BBC sounds. And our coverage goes way beyond that with highlights on the BBC Eye Player and BBC Sport website, plus daily podcasts and the TMS Ashes debrief every day on the IPlayer.

It's nearly showtime in Perth. In the mid-90s, whilst Britain was having its beckham moment, South Africa was having its own. But cricket captain Hansi Cronier didn't kick the ball. He hit it for six. I must congratulate in particular, Captain Hansa Cronier. Hansi Cronier could do no wrong, but in January 2000, he did. South African cricket captain Hansi Cronier and three teammates have been accused of match fixing. I'm Mark Butcher, former England cricket.

Join me for sport's strangest crimes. Hansi Cronier, fall from grace. Listen on BBC Sounds.