Test Match Special - Ben Stokes: the man of the moments

Episode Date: June 30, 2026

Jonathan Agnew is alongside former England captains Michael Vaughan, Sir Alastair Cook, and Ashes-winning bowler Steven Finn for a look-back at Ben Stokes' England career.Hear some of Stokes' iconic moments, and retired captain speaks to Simon Mann. Plus, cricket correspondent Stephan Shemilt puts Stokes' career into context.

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That's a good bad billionaire from the BBC World Service. Listen now, wherever you get your BBC podcasts. You're listening to the TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live. Stokes, pikes on the hookshot. He's got it fine, his arms are all off. He punches the air. 100 for Ben Stokes. His top pegs for hookshot, not the best shot he's played,

but surely the best innings. As Stokes, with two balls left in this over, is on his way. There he bowls to a colour. Oh, he's brilliant. And he flung himself backwards and to his right. You won't see a better catch. I'm sorry.

So here's Ravada. Rhythmical approach. Short, pulled away by Stokes, six more. Out of the middle. And it's 250 for Ben Stokes. He sweeps in the air and strike towards Stokes. It takes an incredible, one-handed catch. On his way, he bolts him.

That's a length, and he heaves it away into the leg side. That's going to go for six. In goes bolt. It's a full toss. Swiped into the leg side. They want to get two here, surely. Come on, Adieu, Rashid. Run. And in comes Pat Cummins from the far end. He bowls to Stokes, who hammers it for four. Ben Stokes says he's honoured to take up the role as England men's test captain.

He's been appointed by the ECB this morning following Joe Root's resignation. Now here we have got a declaration and Pakistan need 343 to win. And England have won this match and the most thrilling of service. the sun is just dipping behind the water tank. There may have been another 10, 15 minutes or so of time. Ingand have gambled, they've been positive, they threw the gauntlet down, and they have won this match by 74 runs on the blandest, flattest pitch you could find. Greenbals and he swings at the next ball, and that's gone for another six.

That is gone over deep back with square. This has been a crazy over. Two sixes to go from an exhibition. This is three sixes in the over. Stokes isn't finished, that's for sure. This is the most extraordinary cricket at the moment. Word has got out that Ben Stokes, 25 past three on the fourth day,

has announced that he's retiring and he's still bowling. He's got the old ball. Find him now, over the wicket he goes, bowls to folks. Ed's and caught. Well, there's something Bocom-esque about that. The first ball that Ben Stokes has delivered since announcing his retirement takes a wicket. Some people have their scripts written for them and they're beyond the realms of the rest of us. And Ben Stokes is one of those.

Stokes lifts that into the leg side. He's caught at midwicket. The show is over. Stokes hammered it away into the on-stoke. side, picked out the fielder, and New Zealand have the breakthrough, and Stokes is on his way for the final time. Meg reflect on his remarkable career. I've got Michael Vaughn, Alastair Cook, and, well, Stephen Finn out here as well. We're just getting some fresh air, really, but this was where it all happened, Michael,

and I guess we're still in a little bit of shock about it all, aren't we? Yeah, I mean, 325 yesterday afternoon. We were both on the radio. I think this pair to my left were on the television. Sheet came our way. I didn't have a clue what it was. You were a little bit put back as well. Yeah, I mean, it was remarkable, really,

to think that one of our greatest suddenly decided during a game, halfway through day four when the game's on an eye face to announce his retirement, gets a wicket next ball. Again, not surprising when we're talking about Ben Stokes. But, yeah, I still am a bit lost for words in terms of the timings and the fact that it hasn't sunk into me yet that, never see Ben Stokes playing for England again. But we'll be, that's a question.

But in the meantime, but let's look back on that extraordinary career. Let's start with Cookie. Go on then. When was the first time that you came across or heard of a young Ben Stokes? Well, I'm pretty sure it was when Paul Collingwood told, like the England dressing room, said when we met up again, I can't remember what year it was. I said, just seeing a young fella at Durham who's going to be unbelievable.

He said he's rough around the edges. He's an all-rounder. He does everything, and he's 100 miles an hour. And he won't be long before he's playing for England. And you do hear that occasion, you go, yeah, yeah, yeah. But he was adamant. So whether he was 16, 15 then, and it was a couple of years later he turned up.

But I do remember when he turned up, he was this guy who was just full on. And he didn't accept being second best at anything. So if you were in a field in competition and he missed the stumps, he'd get so angry. I was like, if only missed the stumps, but no, that's like, and then he would go and do it over and over again until he was the best at doing that.

And that's kind of, and also batting on the nets. Remember him once, batting the nets, got out, and he just turned around and just whacks the stumps down, and like in absolute anger. I was like, mate, it's all right, you got out, you can relax, but he was just wired differently to pretty much everyone else I'd seen. And then the first time, obviously, he announced itself

was in, on that test series in Australia, that pretty tough one, 13, 14, he was on pretty much our only standout, person and straight away got Australia's respect. Finney, when did you first hear about this young man? The first time I shared a dressing room with him was in 2011 and echoed the sentiments that Alistair had there were just the absolute competitive and want to win.

And it's quite an un-English thing to have that bit between your teeth. Yeah, one-day cricket. I played in his ODI debut in Ireland, and then there was a series against India afterwards. and I think he bust his finger actually quite badly at the end of that series and wasn't in squads for a little while whilst he got that right. But just the absolute determination to win was something that was quite refreshing. And he was clearly rough around the edges. He was raw, he was young.

But when you look beyond that and you saw the talent that he had in every facet of the game, he was like a player that I hadn't seen before. I'd seen guys dominate with the bat or with the ball. But you just looked at him and thought he had the ability. ability to dominate with everything and then his mentality on top of that is something that just made you think when you first saw him he's someone

that I think could be around international cricket for a long time and he has been the character is clearly a common thread here Michael isn't it I mean and actually these big personality all rounders are often like that yeah I mean I got the same phone call from Paul Collinwood back in the day about this young kid

I then thought I'll keep an eye on Ben Stokes just I think he's around 16 17 and then he kept on talking about him and looked at his scores. He started to play for Durham. I saw him go 100 against India in 2010 in the Under 19 World Cup and they were a good side back then India. I thought, well this could

can play and the more that I saw him, the 2013-40 Nash is that 100 that he scored in Perth against Mitchell Johnson who was bowling rockets you know, he was bowling, I would say, as quick as I've seen. Third test that was, I think he made his debut in the second didn't he? He made his debut in the second Adelaide

Trot had gone home. Trot had gone home and I think the bit where it was the Brad had an incident wasn't he, I think he got him out on the no ball and then Brad decided so he got him out celebrated and then Brad decided to come back

and give the youngsters a bit of a go and obviously that was red ragged to a ball and Stokes and you just thought this guy is who you want in the team and throughout the next few years he fluctuated between some time probably more his bowling had more of an impact after that

and more consistently some spells of bowling but that competitive edge and we were desperate for that I think anyone is desperate for that and I know he's a way more rounded person now in terms of leisure we'll get on to that in a minute but there

it was this raw aggression in every moment in the field and I think it was a... It wasn't one of his sort of belligerent in things was it was just a really nicely constructed 150 balls or something

There was a massive crack down the middle of the blanket. So I think to aid you had to play that. But if he didn't hit the crack, it was flat. But, you know, he was pulling Mitchell Johnson in front of the square or he was cutting him through the covers. You know, he was hitting the ball so cleanly. That's what stepped out his back in the beginning, how cleanly he struck the ball.

It was just to sit up and go, this guy can back. And it's his want to be there in those moments that stood out for me. I was on that tour, but I didn't play a game. So you're kind of observing everything whilst you're thinking about yourself, but you're also there in the dressing room watching. and he just didn't back down and that was a series where on the whole as a team

we did back down that Brad had in situation was the first moment you thought this guy wants to be in the thick of these crunch moments in games then that 100 at Perth where you could fit your whole hand down that crack

down the middle of the pitch Do you remember his toe as well? Tobe was hanging off as he's bowling on rock hard pitches I think it I mean he was left or right left left left suit there, and as he bowled, slammed it down,

because he didn't have the right boots probably or made for him because he was just a youngster. He made a massive hole in the... Went through there, went through two pairs of socks every session and basically ended up just being his bone on the... And did he moan about it? No, he just... He got six for in the fifth test.

He got six for nine years. He got strapped it out of a hole. Fifth test. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And presumably, I mean, because it was quite a shell-shocking experience that trip, wasn't it? But you just had no doubts about putting this, you know, young cricket over his debut in

to go and face that. No, absolutely not. He would have been almost the first name on the team sheet after the initial shock of Brisbane and then after he saw it head in Adelaide. Probably ideally you'd think you wouldn't want to throw anyone into the debut of the test match but who could cope with it.

Ben would cope with it. Yeah, yeah. What about, before we go into those specific contributions as well, what do you think he'll be remembered for most, Michael? Ben Stokes' real contribution to English cricket, if you like. I think usually with players when they're retired, You do remember one thing that they've done, but I think he's got too many.

I honestly just think back, I mean, a bit of controversy that he's brought, the World Cup final, that 84-knit out, to get England to the Super Over. That innings at Headingley. I guess that probably tops the lot. If I ever had to pick one was that innings, but there's been something,

look, ball into Carlos Bathaway in 2016, you forget that, you got hit for all those sixes, so they have the resilience to come back from that. I was commentating on that, and I really believed that would be the last, I thought that would have broken him. And that would have broken so many. It's in front of so many people,

such a high profile and to get smashed for four sixes like that. That would have broken people. Yeah, this is why he's so good because he's taken, you know, he's had some bruises throughout his career. You know, it's not all been playing, saying, you know, being sent home

from a lion's trip in 2013. He obviously was on the naughty step back. He's always found a little bit of naughtiness in bed. There's been one or two aspects of his career, but it's a bounce back from, a bit of controversy to bounce back from a moment in a T20 World Cup final where England is strolling the game and to lose that from that position to then come back and be a player and then a few years later become an incredible captain I think he became an

incredible captain because of all those problems they'd had he could understand everyone in the dress room he could understand the best player in the dress room because he's been that he could understand the naughty kid in the corner because he's been that he could understand those that weren't quite working hard because he's probably been there himself. I think that's why he became such an empathetic captain. And I think that was probably the one thing when he took over. I was like, oh, what's he going to be like with his teammates?

And from speaking to the likes of Alistair and those that have played under him, he became an incredible man-manager and really good with the human beings, which I always got taught as a captain that you look after the human, not the player. And if you can look after that human being, you've got a better chance of being a good captain.

And it sounds like Ben did that better than most. It's interesting, I mean, you look at Stokes, smothered in tattoos, and you talk about the past and Bristol and that sort of thing. And yet he's a bit of a softy, really, inside. His mother's a grief counsellor in New Zealand, and you can definitely, there's definitely that side of Ben's character. Yeah, and also the care he has for the team he's playing in.

And it doesn't matter what team he's played in, whether it's going back to Durham or here at England or, you know, when it was 50, you know, in 2015, it was genuine care and want that team to win there and then care for the people in there. You go about those moments, heading leave, without shadow of doubt, being there and seeing that was the most incredible thing I've seen.

But just a couple of different ones, that the bowling, I'm pretty sure, and I want to say you got Fife and that ashes in at the second innings here, when did Jimmy Anderson get injured or something? Six for 36 he got here in the broad game. Yeah, in the broad game. So everyone remembers the broad,

every member his catch, but actually in the second innings, when, you know, it didn't get tight, but he then bowled another one his mammoth spells, got six of swinging all over it, and it's just the big moments, he delivered time and time again,

and as a cricket, I always thought Brodie had that as well. When it really mattered, he delivered, I thought, when you retire, I think how good would that be to knowing that when it really delivered? I think, unfortunately for Brody, I think Stokesy's gone up a level on that kind of.

I remember when Shane Warren went to play for Hampshire and what he brought to that Hampshire dresser. You can imagine the Durham players now. You know, knowing that they played, with him last week and to hear him announce last night

he's going to go and play for Durham if I was a young player and I'm up at Durham and in and around that first team second team I can't wait to play in the dressing room with Ben Stokes just to watch him

and learn from him and as I say we'll no doubt discuss maybe we'll see him again in a year's time I'll have to wait and see but what is... I can ask you now because you've raised it

I mean do you think and the character that we've talked about this fierce competitor who really is, he just is so motivated. Is he going to be content playing at Chesterler Street when England are playing Australia at Lords? Is that going to fire him up?

He may do. He may be able to fire himself up for three men and a dog and a couple of other dogs watching him at Chester Street. He might be able to find that mentality. He's different to most. But I just think when the ashes come around next year, if he's fit, April Mays always a good month or two for county cricket. It's kind of the spotlight.

That's where you're looking at bringing players in and potentially those going out of the team. The IPL zone, which always seems to get a little bit of negativity. So there'll be England players at the IPL, which will cop a few negative comments because they're not back here in the UK. That's always the nature of the beast. I'm sure he will be of his fit,

his scoring runs, taking wickets. And as I've said you, I think there will be a change in management. I can't see how this management will carry on for another year. If there is a change in management, and obviously there'll be a new captain. If that captain's not getting in his car and driving up to Durham and just saying, Ben, please, one last harbour against the Ozzy.

I can't imagine Australia next summer without Ben Stokes somewhere involved. So I think it's a watch this space. All right, I'm going to ask you two the same question. Shortly. Okay, but let's start Cape Town. The 250 that he scored there. What, I mean, it was...

That was kind of Ben Stokes, I thought at his best, because it was such an aggressive, such a bruising, second fastest double century in history. I know we will talk about Headingley and the way that he played there particularly, but just in terms of crisp hitting and a destruction of an attack,

that Cape Town ending stands out for me. Yeah, but it wasn't full of risk. That's what made it so special. It wasn't a ramp, for me, it wasn't the ramps and you're getting away. It was just him standing, hitting the ball on the top of the bounce. I guess a good bowl as well. Rabada was playing and just hitting him at will.

where he wanted to. I think maybe when he got close to 200, he was just clearing his leg and half the 200. But up to that moment, and I can't remember what he was at the end of day one, but I'm going to say he was on that 70 or 80.

And the last thing I said to him was like, because he played beauty that night before, I said, just make you, just take a bit of time to get back in a game because, you know, I always found it really hard

to get back in. First two balls, I went to the toilet, didn't see him, crash for four. It was eight or two. I was like, right, he's back.

Just ignore exactly what I say he's back in again. A brilliant, brilliant, double hundred yes he was obviously remember the fini i've played we fielded 211 over i remember i remember it well so you sat and watched that sat and watched it and he actually did it in the warm-up game i think we played a warm-up game in pochfrestrum before that and must remember that that summer before was trevor bayliss's first summer and actually i think one of the biggest moments in ben stokes's career is when trevor baylis came in and said you're my number six because before that he'd

fluctuated from a number eight to seven he he was a bowler who you're a bowler who's a number and who was doing a bit of all-round batting. I think Baylis came in and said, Ben, you're my number six. You will have the responsibility to bat like a proper batter and then bowl the overs and be that charismatic character within the dressing room that we need. And I think that performance was off the back

of the trust that Trevor Bayliss gave to him, which then allowed him to grow into the player that affects those massive moments in games that we see now. There's a couple of moments. I think Peter Moore's got him under swing a little bit and really got bent and really think about detail. So I think he came in when he first came in, he just played a bit of aggression.

They had Mawes to get that like real technical work done and that right, you got this, this, this. And then we got that level. And suddenly Trevor came in and Trevor was just like, be you now. So he kind of done all the work under Peter Moore's, you have that kind of dedication. He kind of got this dedication right and everything off-field and all his technique.

And then had Trevor to come in, you're my man. And I think that helped him. from BBC Radio 5 Live. How did a boycott Jimmy become a billionaire from posting videos? On good, bad billionaire, we're going to find out how the world's most popular YouTuber, Mr Beast, made his fortune. He's buried himself in a coffin for days. Counted to 100,000 on camera. And even recreated squid games, all in an attempt to go viral on the internet.

But it all started when he gave a homeless man $10,000. So is he a philanthropist reshaping capitalism? Or is he just the king of the attention economy? Find out on Good Bad Billionaire. Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts. I've watched him train. Unbelievable hard, is he. I mean, he is extraordinarily fit.

What about practice? I mean, is he a big actual practice? Does he bowl a lot? Does he bat a lot? Absolutely. He really works harder. Yeah, like probably for his body, the last company, is a slight detriment to it because of the injuries

because he couldn't just cruise an essentially. You know, sometimes on a Tuesday for a test match on a Thursday, you can, you know, the experience that Jimmy wouldn't have bowled a huge amount of balls. Like Brody, like 75%, 80%, get through it and save yourself. Ben just couldn't do that, which what made him so different. But, yeah, he trained like a, train the house down and set standards, fitness-wise, where everyone always takes it to the next generation. I thought I was fit, and then you see these guys, what he's done is way fit. Yeah, yeah. And getting back to that character, it's being driven, driven, driven to be the best.

Yeah, I mean, to play for such a long period of time, to captain, you've got to motivate yourself. You know, you have to have that motivation when you wake up in a morning, particularly someone that's done everything. You know, been the bowler, been the fielder, as fit as Alistair says, obviously it hits many, many balls. It takes it out of your body. And to think that he's done it for such a long period of time and he's got up every morning, probably with aches and pains and probably more pains than we know about. To have that motivation to keep going. It's no surprise that he woke up one time over the last few weeks and thought, no, the fire's burnt out.

That's why I keep saying, sometimes you can rebuild a fire. That's why I'm not rolling out. I can't because it's Australia next summer. I want the best England team, and he's going to have to be in it. I think we're all, whether it's just, you know, think, oh, perhaps, you know, hopeful. Perhaps in hope. I think the more everyone's pushed him that way, the less it's going to be. Do you?

Give it a few months. Give it a few months. It's quite stubborn. What about the way he construct his innings and also the two bats with all this? Because you see highlights, don't you, of him smashing the ball around. We all know, I talked about Cape Town

and we'll talk about Heading and so on. But actually, a lot of his innings, not even the ones which he scores big runs, but he does tend to actually start really quite slowly. Yeah, I mean, again, there's been many great players that play for England, but I have been right at the top in terms of the chase. You know, when the chase is on

and the pressure's hot, you know, you go to that World Cup final. He just found a way. He found a simple way to start with and then the rotation of strike, then nipping it into the onside for a couple of twos and then the boundaries had to come and he knows how to find the boundary.

That hundred he got against Australia after Johnny Bearsdo gate. I mean, from nowhere, he was pretty much plodding along like Sir Alistair and then suddenly turned into Sagarfield Sobers. He came back like Alistair and Sagarfield. That's the best compliment I can give him. And he just has an amazing calmness when the chase is on. I mean, the He'd only chase, the World Cup final. The chase in the T20 final in Melbourne against Pakistan,

I was watching, he's completely screwed this up. Yeah, yeah, he looked like the game was lost. Yeah, and then suddenly starts finding the boundaries, and he is an amazing character and calmness when everyone else around, and those on Comethires while are panicking. He seems to be able to find that kind of zen of knowing how exactly to get over the line with the bat in hand. I think a couple of years ago, he would have batted at six or seven here

and been thinking, I want to then do their work and then whatever situation the team finds themselves in, I will be able to deal with it and cope with what the team needs. I'm not sure he's, I think he might have lost a bit of trust in his batting over the last year or so. Maybe that's part of the decision why he wants,

as before when he's saying time out, I'm saying retiring. We're going to rebuild this fire. We're going to just get a load of logs. A couple of firelighters. A bit of paraffin. I think he found, I don't think he quite trust his batting as much.

No, no. way of Ben Stokes, I would have said, you've got to bat at seven. He would have said, no, I want a bat at six. Well, technique, again, we'd go back to a lot of the big hitting stuff because that's what lives in the memory. But technically, he could open the batting, not like yesterday, but he'd be good enough, wouldn't he? Absolutely.

I think his technique, actually, at his best, was very simple, and very still at point of delivery and head in a good position. And his natural timing of the ball means, you know, he hit the ball incredibly hard. Yeah, but for a couple of years, he probably had England's best and most reliable technique. Yeah, yeah. Well, onto my favourite, I know, I'll never see another test. We will never see another test match like Headingley in 2019,

and coming so soon after the World Cup as well. I mean, he was just on top of the world then, wasn't he? I mean, Ian Both of them obviously attracted attention in a similar way, but somehow that was Ben Stokes' summer. Yeah, it was, and we'll no doubt talk about. the innings because that was exceptional. I have that right up there with the best that I've seen, but it was his bowling spell.

Yes. You know, he... But Jim was often overlooked. I think Joffra was struggling and couldn't quite get the overs in and suddenly Ben went, give me the ball. Because Australia was so far ahead of the game and Ben produced this mammoth bowling spell to give England just a glimmer, just a glimmer.

Just a glimmer of hope. And you just know with someone like Ben Stokes, you only have to give him a glimmer and he'll believe. You know, and the Ozies had a chance to just take that glimmer away from Ben. But because he got the ball in hand and he kept on going, and he kept on going, suddenly the chase is on,

and then you lose wickets. And I think his first 50 came in a ridiculous amount of balls. He had to bat the night before, didn't he? Yes, he did. And he walked out, and lion was born, and he just blocked. He literally, he didn't play a shot. Because he said, I remember chatting to afterwards. He said, well, I had to be there the next morning if we had any chance.

So over my dead body, block. About like me, you're going to say now, but that's what he did. It's a good way to bat, sir I was to do. Yeah, but right, again, it was such a slow. start and then, well, the next day. I mean, could anyone else have done that? I suppose Ian both of them could have done it. People compare the two, don't they?

And they say that Ian's and things in 81 was in a losing situation. I mean, the game was done, and he went out and played like he did brilliantly. However, for Stokes, Ash is on the line, number 11 at the other end. I mean, there was a lot to play for the pressure on Stokes. It was ridiculous. I mean, I kind of look back at it now, and we see so many of the highlights. I still can't believe he did it. You know, some of those shots of reverse sweep into the stands,

flicking Hazardwood into the terrace on a few occasions. Then lying came and bowled a little bit slower and wider outside off, into the footholes, and he was flat batting him down the ground for six, which was only going, what, 20 yards in the air? He cluffed one, and I think everyone thought, oh, no, that's it. And it just goes quite a short boundary up at our commentary box end, and it just plopped over the top. But I remember the sound of it hitting the bat, thought, oh, no,

that's all over. He just got enough. And everyone talks about that, but that was the last 70 runs. But then he was on, what do you mean, 70 or 8, he played beautifully there.

The next morning, he ran out Josh Butler as well, so he threw that one in the mix. You'd also said you want in that position as a chase. But without shout, without a doubt, for me, the best innings I've ever seen

because it had absolutely everything. We always talk about, you know, we like T20, but you play the same way. Test cricket, you have to play for the situation, and that situation for his 130 odd required different methods for different moments

and he was good enough to play every single method needed and that's for me. The one I've seen live was just absolutely extraordinary. And he sparked up, Stephen, just so much enthusiasm into cricket, didn't he? I mean, he really brought cricket into the front room again. Well, that summer was just incredible, wasn't it? And the character, what we always come back to with Ben Stokes

is the character. And he was the one when no... one thought it was possible he would always believe and i think you felt that as a player when you're playing with him in the dressing room he made you believe playing alongside him that the impossible was possible um and in that 2019 chase that the ability to stay calm and think about the runs and the situation with the runs but also to stay calm given that you're trying to manage a number 11 situation with jack leach at the other end and how many balls he needs to face to be able to put all of those different hats on in one innings is simply incredible.

Michael said his bit. You two have got ten seconds each. Is this the end? Or will he be riding on his white charger down the M1 at the start of next summer to go and face Australia? I think this is the end of Ben Stokes. I think this is, from what I've heard, whatever the real reason, I think he's got tired.

I think I captained and opened the batting and I found it tiring. He then, but I still had the odd day where I stood in there, did nothing. Every day he's involved, and I think he's just got to that point. And I thought, why has he got tired after four months? He's had a four-month break. So he's not been on the treadmill.

He's being at home. And I think he might have just thought, you know what, I don't need this stressor anymore. So I'm going to say no, just to be different. My heart agrees is Sir Alistair, but the more I talk to Vaughney, the more I believe it is, the more I believe it's possible. I'm going to be on the streets of this country,

I'm saying with banners. Great stuff. Thanks, you three. There we are. A lovely look back at. extraordinary career. I'm still hopeful. I'm still hopeful.

I'm still hoping. I like it, but I'm going to, I don't think. I'm in, I reckon we could get 20 or thousand here today on the streets campaign around next June. Right. Solomon is up there in the commentary box. Great stuff. Thank you very much, Jonathan.

Stefan Schemett, our cricket correspondent, alongside. You've got an easy job here, Stefan, just to put Stokes' career in context. Yeah, and it's easy, isn't it? You're right. I suppose you look a bit deeper into everything that Ben Stokes has achieved.

I was having a look at some of his career numbers. So for England, more test runs than Graham Thorpe and Dennis Compton. More caps than Gower and boycot. More wickets than Goff and Harmeson at a better strike grade than either Anderson or both them.

More tests as captain than Brearley or Ellingworth. And more sixes than anyone ever. And you know, you and I, Simon, we've been watching the Football World Cup, haven't we? about performances in World Cup finals by Englishmen in any sport and what that leads to and what that can mean for the rest of their life. You know, Jeff Hurst, Johnny Wilkinson.

Stokes did that twice. And that's before you think about the moments that he's provided in test cricket as well. So what we're talking about is one of the greatest men to ever pull on an England shirt, but also one of the most significant British sportsmen of the last, well, however many years. You also, you look at the stats, people say, well, how do you only average 34 with the bat and 31 with the ball?

But you always think of a class or rounder as being someone whose batting average is above their bowling average. And I've just reeled off numbers and stats, but he's a cricketer of more than numbers, isn't he? Moments, really. And as any cricketer had more moments than Ben Stokes, certainly he's had the most since both of them,

hasn't he? So, you know, that first 100 in Perth, what he did in Cape Town, Lord's in the World Cup final, Headingley in the Ashes, Melbourne and the T20 World Cup final, and then as a captain, Rul Pindi, Hyderabad, sort of these almost twin legacies as an all-rounder

and as a captain, and I just mentioned both of them and Breel. He's almost been Botham and Brearly rolled into one, except without, what you would say, as a cricketer, a defining Ashes series, He's at a defining Ashes performance and as a captain without that Ashes series win. Yeah, and that's obviously not going to happen now. He did win the Ashes in 2015.

I mean, it felt like a year to go. It felt like one more year, didn't it? And that's what they were chanting here yesterday, one more year. Yeah, and I think a lot of us, you know, we just heard the discussion down there, whether or not Stokes will come back and play in the Ashes next year. And I think that's all because we're all thinking it wasn't supposed to end this way. it was supposed to end next August or July or whatever with Ben Stokes at the Oval, Australia beaten,

Stokes holding up the urn and riding off into the sunset into retirement. But what has actually happened, and he sort of mentioned this in his chat with you last night, in that what happened in Australia, setting wheels or set in motion, the process for him to be unable to take on Australia again. I think someone said to me yesterday, it was CMJ who wouldn't say,

a player never gets over a bad tour of Australia. Maybe that's just the case with Ben Stokes. And look, international sport, pro sport is brutal, isn't it? Absolutely. Think of everything that Stokes has been through, all those injuries, everything he's had to go through to get back on the pitch, physically and mentally. If he says he's burnt out, I think I believe in it.

The TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live. Can you quite believe that it is all over? Yeah, because I said it was. You go through everything, happiness, sadness, excitement and all those kind of things. So I guess I'll probably end up going through them for the next week. But look, there's stuff that I've got to be able to look forward to as well. But there's also stuff that I'll miss. And some of the feelings you get from playing test cricket are some of those things that I am going to miss.

You know, when the crowd gets on your back, when you walk out and, you know, everyone's clapping. or cheering your name and no longer be able to have the band, your hammity singing. All those kind of things. Those are things that you're desperately going to miss. You're going to miss the time in the dressing room with people who you go to war with, essentially. So those are the things that you're desperately going to miss. And believe it or not, I might miss doing this. But look, there's excitement, there's sadness and all that kind of stuff that you go through.

But at the end of the day, it's the person who makes a choice of just myself knows that it's the right one for me. the special moments in your test career? There's been quite a few. I think, again, the 2015 Ashes winning that here. That was an amazing memory to be a part of. Obviously, I was quite young back then and just sort of learning the trade of being a test match all rounder.

First time leading the team out as official captain, incredible. And then some of the moments that I've been able to be on the field to experience other people's success. You know, I look back to, Brody's last test match, I'm taking his last week, being a part of James Anderson's last test match,

Stuart Broad, seeing Joe Root do what he's done out on the field as an individual. Just I could name you loads. And through all the moments, I feel that I've been lucky enough to be a part of as myself, I think I'm also feeling extremely lucky that I've been out on the field and been a part of some of the greatest players to play the game for England, but also on the other side, you know, since some of the greatest players who play the game who I've managed to play again. So, yeah, look, I've been very fortunate to have done this as a job for a very long time,

especially, you know, as a kid growing up, just messing about with my mates in the back garden and smashing windows, you know, to call this a job for as long as I've been able to do has been absolutely awesome and something that I never took for granted. And, yeah, I'm very proud of sort of, I guess, what I've been able to do. You retired from one day international cricket, Ben, and you came back. you're sitting on your sofa next summer I don't know it's June and the ashes are on you're thinking oh I do miss this

is there any way at all you would think about coming back? I wouldn't be sat on my sofa I'll probably be up in hospitality somewhere watching people running and bowling and I remember when I used to do that but look isn't it amazing how yesterday happens and then I get asked the next day

if I'm going to be playing in an ashes test match next year Well they were shouting one more year over there last night I mean that's for me that's something nice for me to you know just hear about and listen but it's um you know i've i've given everything that i possibly could have done um and every time that i've set down the field for england um but it's not happening anymore um yeah i've got i've got other things that my mind is sort of focusing on now and you know

i've obviously sacrificed a lot but there's also other people who sacrificed a lot along the way for me and that's includes my wife my children now who have got their own sort of interests and their own things that they want to do and I want to be able to go and share those experiences with them. I had kids quite young, so they're quite grown up now. And of all weeks, last week, when I wasn't playing, my son decided that's when he wants to really get involved into cricket. And I was like, thanks for choosing this week to do it. So even like little things like that, you know, just being able to enjoy those things alongside with my family who have been there through thick and thin with me. Yeah, those are kinds of things that I'm excited about.

Ben, many congratulations on your career. Thank you very much indeed. The TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live. He's widely recognised as one of the greatest footballers in history. He's won the prestigious Ballandour Award five times. He's the all-time leading goal scorer in professional football. And according to the Bloomberg Billionaires Index, he's the first active footballer in history to achieve billionaire status.

Guess who we're talking about yet? That's right. Good, bad billionaire is exploring. the life and fortune of football icon Christiano Ronaldo. That's a good bad billionaire from the BBC World Service. Listen now, wherever you get your BBC podcasts.