Test Match Special - Ben Stokes: We won’t change our approach for the Ashes

Episode Date: June 12, 2023

England captain Ben Stokes speaks to Isa Guha ahead of the Ashes. Stokes explains why he’ll never change his approach, why results are the last thing he prioritises, why cricket should be fun, and whether or not the Ashes is the ‘ultimate challenge’ in Test cricket. Plus he tells us which of his England teammates is most like Tom Cruise…

Jill Scott's Coffee Club We are back I'm so excited for the second series Ben It's going to be so exciting Bigger and better this year We've got the Lioness as England manager Sabrina

Wow As if we've got Serena I'm happy that I've seen her A couple of times after the euros More on TV than in life We can see her now here Let's not forget as well Jill

We've got to hear about all your antics In the jungle too Every now and then There'd just be a tannoy going Jill You are not allowed to leave camp that way So I was constantly getting in trouble. Jill Scott's Coffee Club.

Listen on BBC Sounds. BBC Sounds, music, radio, podcasts. This is the TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live. Hello and welcome to the Test Match special podcast. I'm Isha Guha. It's nearly here. One of the most anticipated Ashes series in recent times. Will England's brave new approach to test cricket continue its incredible run

of success or will Australia, fresh from being crowned world test champions, prove too much even in English conditions. The fate of the series could lie hugely on one man. In 2019, Ben Stokes played what Alistair Cook called the greatest ever innings by an Englishman at Hedinley. Four years on, Stokes is now the captain, taking England from a pitiful run of test form to 11 wins in the last 13 matches. So how has he done it? And will he change for the ashes?

I've been sitting down with him to go through that and much more. Ben, I'm going to start with your leadership. People have said that you're loyal, you're caring and you're a deep thinker. But has it always been that way, the way that you've led, or has it evolved over time? Well, I think it has evolved. but I think it's been something that's always been in me but it's just sort of taking the opportunity to present itself to be able to sort of lead this team

and even before sort of getting together as a test team for the first time with me being captain it was one simple thing that I said I had to make sure that I was doing which was just being completely true to myself how I've sort of gone about my business as a player and transferring that over into being a captain. Because, you know, I played 85 or 86 games before I got made captain. And, you know, the guys who I played with sort of knew me as a person,

they knew me as a player. And for me, if I became captain and then started doing things completely different to what they knew me for, you know, I think it would raise a few eyebrows. There's been a lot of focus on team culture, and I've spoken to Josh about this recently. He said he's been fortunate to be part of some pretty good cultures under Owen and under Joe. What is good culture for you? A good example, I think, is all the communications I was having with, you know, the players and stuff like that, sort of just like WhatsApp and, you know, over the, especially whilst I was in India,

was, you know, we always finish the conversation with, I can't wait to get back with the boys again. So I think when you've got a group of players and, you know, even coaches and support staff who are just so excited to be together as a group again, you know, take the cricket away from it, when you've got a group of people like that who are just so excited to come back

and be in each other's company again, that's when you know you're in a good culture and a good environment. How do you create that, though? Well, just make it good fun. Just make it as fun as you can. can and just making sure that everything we do is just a good time, you know, whether that be on the field, off the field, the things we do together as a group, just whatever it is,

you know, and Baz has been incredible at that. He's been the main advocate of making sure that that's one thing that we stick to regardless of what is going on, you know, in competition. Because we're lucky that he's not been, you know, far long done playing cricket, that in last sort of part of his career he can look back on and say like it was just an incredible time I had and he says like he wish he had that mindset when he first started out playing so having someone like that to come in and just really you know push and advocate that kind of thing away from the game is massive it's an exciting time to be an England cricketer at the moment but

I guess sport is a reflection of society and cricket is undertaking a bit of a reckoning at the moment So how do you see your role in terms of changing that perception of cricket and the image problem that cricket is sometimes had? I mean, again, it just falls back to your first question. Well, one of your questions about the environment and the culture in which, you know, you have in a dressing room. First and foremost, I think you've got to create a place where every individual feels comfortable and safe to be comfortable and being the person that they are. not feeling like they're having to put on like a different face every day to fit in with what they think is required or is needed. What we have there is, you know, you're in a team sport, you've got so many different people in a dressing room that you've got to understand that

you're going to have different individuals, you're going to have different characters, you're going to have different personalities. And that's the great thing is that if you bring all those things together and just accept it for what it is, accept people for who they are, that's going to be a place where people can thrive and that's an amazing thing that we've able to do I think what we've done is we've taken a group of players who are obviously very good at what they do but I think what we've been able to do

is just to sort of let them go out and be free and I think that they've even got up to a point even now where they probably think they're better they are better than what they thought they were and that's just all through a mindset change and allowing people to go out and be who they are on the field and off the field. I can imagine it's quite an addictive environment to be part of. Did you take it upon yourself then as a captain?

You talk about all these unique individuals to really just understand them better or understand what's going on behind the scenes for them all. Did you see that as a responsibility as a leader? I mean, I think I've like sort of, obviously I've been through, you know, fair amount and i think that that sort of allows me to be sort of relatable to to loads of different people and yeah obviously being in you know situations like in a game or off-field situations and stuff like that you know i just feel as if i'm just going to be quite relatable to people if they've ever got if they've ever got an issue or if they've ever got something i feel like i'm

approachable person to come and speak to you know but i don't go out and like seek it I will do if I feel like it's a necessary thing to happen but, you know, I'm not someone to just go and be like, right, come on, let's do this, let's do that, let's do that, you know, because, you know, everyone sort of knows sort of what they want and what they need and, you know, I think everyone's wise enough and old enough to know that what they need to do at the time, if that makes sense. We've heard from Joe Root and Stuart Broad say that the inspiration for last summer was Elvis the film for you to try and, encourage the players to be rock stars why elvis so when his film came out it was before the edge bass and test against india and it was just complete flute really like went and watched it and there was this one part of the movie where i was just watching it and i was going oh my god this is like just literally sort of what sort of i'm trying to do and i was just watching it and i was going i've got to put like this team talk like just somehow i've got to try and

get this movie part that I was on about into the team talk and then when I said it actually made complete sense in my head so I was like right I'm going with it tomorrow so you know team talks they might all look like we're being dead serious and stuff like that was that one before India I was actually talking about Elvis Presley yeah so yeah it's amazing when you see something like that but it resonates so well and unbelievably well with you as a person that yeah I just thought it was a good time to sort of mention something like that's why Rudy did that little pinky thing because that pinky thing's part of it in the film. Yeah, we saw it quite a lot last summer.

Is that going to continue into this year or is there going to be a new inspiration? There's a few new movies coming out. I don't know, I'll have to go and watch them. Maybe Marvel might throw something in there that I'm able to do. There's a Mission Impossible out. Yeah. I don't think I'll get people jumping off cliffs. Who would be the Tom Cruise in your team?

Tom Cruise do you know just character wise like Matty Potts he's like he's a young lad and he'll just do anything for you do anything for anybody you know like if he thinks that you know that's what's required of him to be a good team man he'll go and do anything

he's the first person that comes to mind you is Indiana Jones as well never been an Indiana Jones fan okay fair enough don't like snakes I don't mind them just a bit far-fetch because the Marble fan

Let's move on to the cricket Massive, massive summer up against Australia What makes the Ashes special and different to anything else? The history, obviously and the Ashes has only ever played between Australia and England

You know, we obviously as cricketers we feel very lucky and fortunate enough that we're able to be a part of something like that and you know when it dials down to it at the end of the day we go out and we play a game of cricket we play a game that we've done for so many years it's 11 of us for 11 of them and the whole ashes thing it's just about making sure that understanding that that is what it is and it's just the occasion that's a bit bigger you know before every Asher series you see all the promotion and everything that goes into sort of building up the series and, you know, like, you know, back in Beefy's Day, you know, the stuff that

Warnie was able to do, you know, all the great players from England and Australia, what they've done out in the field, you're always here about that stuff before the series gets going. So I think just the whole build-up and what Asher's cricket and the series have been able to produce for the spectators is obviously always shoved them from your face. This bold new style that England had been playing with for the last 12 months, has been very successful, but would you say that this is now your ultimate challenge against Australia? Ultimate challenge, no. It's another challenge. You know, we know the threat that Australia pose whoever they play against are an incredibly good team.

But, you know, in terms of what we've done, you know, say we found something that works, we found something that has been successful, as you just said, and that doesn't change with the opposition. What we like to do and what many of the teams will always say is that they concentrate on themselves way more than what they do in the opposition, but also respecting the opposition and respecting what they do have. But yeah, nothing's going to change

because we know that we've had unbelievable success with it and if we were to change anything that we have done over those 12 months because we find ourselves in the Ashes series, then the last 12 months would be quite. completely pointless. Tactically though, you've spoken openly about your desire for out and out quick bowlers and those stocks have diminished ever so slightly with Joffra and Olly Stone out to injury very sadly, but you still have a world-class attack. So does your want for those hard and fast pitches change now to suit the bowlers that you do have?

So just like obviously having multiple bowlers who were able to bowl at that high pace, any team and any captain or any selector would want to have those, you know, sort of, you know, just does a, you know, sort of convey about. But that doesn't mean, you know, that I was saying like I want four 90 mile an hour bowlers. We've got James Anderson and Stuart Broad who, you know, just, it's incredible what done over the career. So it's more around sort of having a sort of, you know, like dynamic bowling attack and having someone in your team who's able to bowl at that high pace is, you know, might be required at some point in this series. And, you know, that's something that I feel every

team wants, every team needs. So the more of those guys you can have available, the better. but, you know, when you've got James Anderson, Stuart Board and Ollie Robinson leading your attack, regardless of how fast they bowl, you know, I'm pretty sure anybody would like to have those three in particular. The ethos and the mantra of this team has been quite process-driven and just about the style that you want to play and not necessarily results focused, but what would it mean to win the ashes? Yeah, I think that's the most. I honestly, I've got before we start playing in the ashes, obviously we'll do the normal get-together, the normal sort of captain, what you've got to say and all that kind of stuff.

And I always go back to like a sort of little list and at the bottom of the list is results. Because if we do everything and stick to everything that we do above that results word, then the result will look after itself. So, you know, not being so result-driven actually is a great way to sort of just simplify things and bring it back to ourselves as players and bring it back to ourselves as a team around the way that we want to play. Because if we play anywhere near the capability

of what we can do and we have a good day, then the result's probably going to be a win. And if we don't, we don't play well and we don't sort of stick to what we know works for us, then the result's going to be a loss. So putting results at the bottom is just sort of one thing that I'll keep hammering home and making sure that it's about our process

and our mindset before anything else. And I guess you'll have a lot of fun along the way as well. Yeah, I mean, that's, you know, every series of players is a great occasion for England. You've got the Ashes now, which is just, you know, another occasion for us. And you've got to have fun in these times because when you're, the day that you finish and the day you retire and you're not able to have this feeling again of being in the dressing room with the other teammates or walking out at Lords, walking out at Edgebaston in front of that crowd, at Headingley in front of that crowd, you know, you'll always look back and go, I wish I just tried to enjoy it a little bit more. So there's no chance that we're going to have that in particular in this time because, you know, got myself and Baz making sure that everyone comes in and just make sure that everything we do is with a smile on our face

and we're having a good time on the field and off the field. We can't wait. It's going to be entertaining. It's a double Ash's summer that the women are playing as well. Do you have a message for the women's team? I think it's great that, you know, we had John Lewis and our dress. room for a long time and to see him progress from where he was with us to go and take the lady's job as great because I think as well it sort of filters everything that we're trying

to do throughout, you know, through our dressing room, you know, and obviously, you know, trying to get it into the county system. Because I feel that's just sort of what is the right thing to do is because we're in a time and place now with us where, you know, this is what's going to get recognized. And the woman might have a completely different mindset towards the way that they want to play. But as long as you just stay true to everything that you want to do and what you want to achieve, then, you know, the sky is the limit. But it's great that we've got, you know, the men's and the ladies' ashes on at the same time. And I think women's cricket has just gone from strength to strength to strength over the last, you know, five years as well.

even look at how well the IPL went and I think there'll be a time where hopefully people don't feel the need for the men's game to be helping the women games along because it's in such a strong position now that in five years time it can be seen as the as the woman's sport and the men's sport because what the ladies have done over the last five years has been great for the game. Does it feel unified in that sense? Yeah, I mean, we see the support that, you know, we get from the women's team, and it's exactly the same. We want them to win the Ashes as well. You know, it would be great to have bragging rights over the Australian saying that the men's

and the women's team are both on the Ashes. So, yeah, I think it's definitely as unified, yeah. Ben, thanks very much for your time and all the best for the summer. Thanks very much. Thank you. That was Ben Stokes, and you'll be able to hear how his England side get on. With commentary on every ball of both the men's and the women's ashes, on BBC Sounds and five sports extra,

with highlights every evening at 7 o'clock on the eye player and clips during the match on the BBC Sport app. We cannot wait. How do you cope with Ellis and John? We want to tell you about the brand new series of our podcast How Do You Cope available now on BBC Sounds. Let's create spaces where young people feel confident to say, actually, I need help.

Each week we speak to guests about some of the challenges they've had to overcome throughout their lives. all answering the question, how do you cope? You should let it seep out from every pore in your body and let it be physical and rageful so that it can leave. They've been some of the most illuminating conversation I've ever had. From BBC Radio 5 Live.

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