Test Match Special - Bob Willis 1949-2019

Episode Date: December 4, 2019

Eleanor Oldroyd pays tribute to former England captain Bob Willis, who has died at the age of 70. His teammates Mike Brearley, Vic Marks and David Gower share their memories of him, including Willis' memorable performance during 1981 Ashes series at Headingley.

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. Bring more gear, carry more passengers, face greater challenges. Welcome to the world of Defender, with seating up to eight, ample cargo space, and legendary off-road capability. It's built to make the most of every adventure. Learn more at landrover.ca. BBC Sounds, music, radio, podcasts. Hello and welcome to a test match special podcast, paying tribute to one of England's greatest fast bowlers. Here's Willis in. Bowles to Bright. Bright bowled! The middle stamps out of the ground. England have won. They've won by 18 runs. Willis runs around, punching the air. The boys invade the ground. And the players run Helter Skelter for the pavilion. Well, what a finish. Bright, bold Willis for 19. Willis has taken eight weeks. His best in his test career, in his entire career, too.

A phenomenal performance by Bob Willis and Australia all out for 111. England have won by 18 runs. Bob Willis, former England captain, passed away today at the age of 70. Bob took 325 wickets in 90 tests from 1971 to 1984, including that career best 8 for 43 at Headingley in the 1981 Ashes. He captained England in 18 tests. before his retirement in 1984, when only Dennis Lilly had taken more test wickets. He then had a long and successful career as a commentator, both with the BBC and with Sky.

In a statement, the ECB said cricket has lost a dear friend. Well, with me, his captain from that famous day at Headingley, Mike Brearley. In a while, we'll hear from David Gower and Vic Marks. But first, Mike, such sad news. He was a fine man and a very, very fine bowler. one of the best England fast bowlers, I think, has ever been. And everyone who knew him will miss him hugely. What are your memories of that extraordinary final innings at Headingley

and Bob bowling from the Kirkstall Lane end? I've heard him say that you basically just gave him the ball and said, Bob, just keep on bowling like you, like as fast as you can. Well, Bob was in, he wasn't in great form before that match and at the beginning of that match. I think he took one wicket in the first innings when they scored 400. And on the night before the last day,

and he'd been bowling no balls and he hadn't bowed so he didn't know whether to bowl as fast as he could as he used to do or cut down a bit. And on that last evening before the last day's play, a few of us were having a drink with him and we said, he said, well,

what shall I do tomorrow? And he said, look, if you bowl as fast and straight as you can, the way you can bowl. Forget about those no balls and things like that. They won't be able to play you. And he started off bowling uphill, which is the end he wanted because he was nervous about the no balls. And he thought if he bowled downhill, he'd overstep. And after, well, and in the second innings, and after a while, I think he said, let me have a go at the other end. And I wasn't quite sure. And then I thought, yes, why not? And then he started to bowl down. the hill and exactly the way I've just described and he said to you. And it was incredible.

Obviously, there was a lot of luck that it turned out the way it did, but it was fantastic bowling, supported by other people, Chris Old in particular, Nattings, but he took 8 for 43 and finished the game off with a middle stump yorker that took the middle stump out of the ground. It's extraordinary to watch that back now. And you talk about, we talk now about sports Sportsman being in the zone at particular times. Yes. Was he in the zone today? Bob was in the zone in general, more than anyone else I played with or possibly against.

I didn't know them so well, the ones I played against. At the end of an over, he'd stride back off down to long leg, you know, to his sort of resting place in the field. And someone like Bob Taylor, the wicketkeeper, or Alan Notter, or I would run alongside him two steps to his one, encouraging him, making the odd suggestion, seeing, how he felt, and it was like, you know, you almost had to knock to find out if anyone was in. He was in, but he had this particular zone he got into. And I think it helped him a lot. I think it was a sort of, it may have had something to do with the Bob Dylan. You know, he changed his name to, added the name Dylan because he was such an admirer of Bob Dylan, so it was something of that sort of ecstasy or total focus that might be in some great

performers on the stage and great artists perhaps, which I think he had. And, you know, he got into that zone and he was in the zone on that day, but you could still get through to him. And right near the end when Dennis Lilly scored a quick 20 or something, which was a lot of runs in that context, Mike Gatting said to me, tell him just to bowl straight. Don't let him get either side of the ball to help it on the leg side or cut it on the off side and that's what he did and he came back and bowled dead straight again what was he like to captain and all the the players that you captained in your successful career what would you say defined bob apart from that that extraordinary focus of that concentration well he was a terrific team man he was an enthusiast sometimes he could be

a bit down but other times he was very amusing very funny and he was quite fierce. I mean, he was like a second row forward in a rugby team who sort of slogged their way up to the opponent's 25 and some fancy play by the backs make them trudge back to the back all the way back down the field. And he used to get very fierce if batsmen threw their wickets away, especially young batsman. And we saw that, of course, in his commentary work later as well. And he had this image of being a little bit grumpy, but you obviously saw the good side, the fun side of Bob as well. Absolutely.

But I mean, even the grumpy side had its funny side to it as well, you know, when you knew him. He was fierce, but he wasn't unpleasant. He was just fierce. I suppose some people would be a bit nervous about him, especially if they were younger or didn't know him that well. But he was, and he was a great player of charades, for example, in India where we stayed in little hotels or guest houses or things. in the cup in the country, he would be a great figure of the, you know, the after-dinner entertainment, in-house entertainment. Where would you rank him, Mike, in the all-time great bowlers that you played with and played against? Well, I think he's up with them. I suppose the

people I think of in my career were Dennis Lilly and Jeff Thompson and the West Indian fast bowlers and then Richard Hadley and Imran Khan. And there was a great crop of fast bow as well as Mike Proctor of South Africa and others. But I think Bob was up with them. He was as quick as them. He was tall. He was a very awkward bowler to face with his in slant. And occasionally the ball would straighten off the pitch, you know, moving from the leg to the off.

And then he was unplayable. But he got this very awkward bounce. He was at you all the time. He was an attacking bowler. He was very persistent. He made himself fitter and fitter. I think after the centenary test in 1977, he went to a man called Arthur Jackson, a Sydney doctor, and a hypnotherapist.

And that was part of hypnotising himself, not only for bowling, but for getting fit, for training. And he did a lot more running, and he became able to bowl fast for a greater number of overs in the day or in the match. So he gained in stamina as he got more mature as a bowler. But he was up with them and he and both of them were up with any of the pairs of bowlers at that time, really. If you think about that, the Hedley Test match in 1981, we look back at that and we were remembering it all again in the summer just gone, this ashes summer just gone. Yes. We talked about Botham's ashes. You talk about Botham's Headingley in 1981. Was it as much Willis's Headingley, would you say? Yes, I think it was. I mean, both of them was extraordinary in that match, but then so was Bob Willis and in that last innings. I suppose Ian did, he also took six or seven wickets in the match as well as scoring 149 not out and 50. So, I mean, he did it in three of the four innings. Bob did it in one innings, but in the crucial one. And it was a match winning, it was match winning stuff. If you could remember one thing about Bob Willis, if there is a memory that you will think about later on tonight and in the days to come, what would that be?

I think, I didn't know the sort of little remarks he made like they have to be spoken to. That was about some sort of Gower and Randall, David Gower and Derek Randall, you know, and they scored a pretty 43 and then got out. And that sort of fierce, fierceness, which he meant, but as I say, which wasn't. it wasn't unpleasant. It was no malice in it. It was just that he wanted the best and wanted us to produce our best. So that was one thing. And I think the other thing that I remember with great affection is his run-up to bowl. It was extraordinary run-up to bowl. Most people come in in a curve from sort of slightly wide of the stumps. He came in from behind the umpire and almost ran out towards the offside

from behind the umpah to deliver the ball with his characteristic in-swing action which actually that was a big turning point for him early in his career when he moved from Surrey to Warwickshire it was partly because at Surrey he felt people wanted to turn him into a classical out-swing bowler like Fred Truman or someone and you know he actually said that he

couldn't bowl and not hit the side netting in the nets. I mean, it was as bad as that for him. And he only got back to being a good bowler when he, again, when he went back to his old irrepressible, completely idiosyncratic action. So I think of him as this, and we called him goose, you know, because of the, it looks as if he was, you know, laboring to take off as he ran into bowl, like a goose on the river. And, and there was something of, you know, and there was something of that in the way that it was slightly kind of slightly manic, slightly over the top. And there was something of that in his humour as well. And just to go back to something you said about his almost uncompromising approach to players who he didn't feel were doing as best as they could, do you

think that maybe that made him not such a great captain? Because obviously he did captain his country and David Gower took over from him. Yes. Well, I didn't see so much of that. I thought he was a terrific number two. You know, he was completely loyal and he would say things that needed to be said but which, you know, might be confrontational occasionally or might not be welcomed to everyone's ears. So I think he was probably,

and it's not easy to be a fast bowler and a captain, I don't think, because of all the adrenaline that goes into the bowling and the zone indeed. And sometimes he could look at mid-off, rather wooden as if he wasn't completely engaged, with it. I think he probably was, but I don't think he was as good a captain as he was a number two. Mike, thank you so much for coming on and talking to us about Bob. He is a man who will be hugely missed, I think, by the whole world of cricket. I am sure he will. Very fond of

him. Mike Brearly, thank you so much for sharing your memories of Bob Willis. Well, this is what Bob told Gabby Logan back in 2011 about that memorable test match. We'd all packed up our gear and checked out of the hotel on the Monday morning and quite a few of us about half that 11 were staring early international retirement in the face because we'd had a pretty lean run we'd lost to the West Indies over there there was nothing new about that

and then of course we'd lost the first test match at Trent Bridge against Australia rain affected boring draw at Lodge which saw Ian Botham resign the captaincy so when they got 401 for 9 in the first innings we were really walking the plank quite a lot of us So what inspired the turnaround then? Well it was just a crazy innings from Ian really

Although Richie there described that it was one of the great test match innings It just started off as a slog You know the game was up There's no way we could get it back into the match Labbrooks famously had their 500 to 1 odds on the scoreboard. Ian just went in and started slogging and the ball went off the edge of the bat

more than off the middle and then he got himself in and started playing some outrageous shots and it just went on and on from there. At what point did you start to believe and think we actually could do this? Well, not really until the last morning where we took three wickets just before the lunch interval

and that was then because they'd reached 52 for the loss of one wicket chasing 130. So there's really still no chance at that stage. But we picked up three wickets before lunch and you could sort of feel the millstone of pressure lifted off our shoulders onto their shoulders. And when Mike Brearley, Ian Botham and myself would finish the press conference, we got back to the dressing room and all the other players had gone because they were playing the next day at all points of the compass around the country in what was then the Gillette Cup. We didn't have any chance to

celebrate that and... Had a bag of chips and went home. That was it. That's it. I was driving back to Birmingham where I lived at the time. It wasn't until I turned on the PM programme at 5 o'clock and it was the lead story of the PM programme

and then the sort of penny dropped what we'd actually achieved that day. Did it change your life in terms of the richest... Very much so. I mean I think that being recognised everywhere you mentioned the ridiculous Doctor Who hairstyle which we all had to have in the 70s and 80s.

You know, one of your correspondents mentioned the flared trousers helping in the wind. I was always bowling with the wind. Beefy had to bow up the hill into the wind because he was a macho man. Well, that was Bob Willis. Talking to Gabby Logan back in 2011 about that extraordinary day

back at Headingley in 1981. Let's speak to David Gower, who not only was part of the team that beat Australia on that famous day, so was a teammate of Bob's for a number of years, but also a colleague of his for many years as well with Sky Sports. And David, first of all, your thoughts today on Bob Willis, a friend and a colleague? Yes, I mean, as a friend, I can happily look back on many, many years of loyal friendship. It starts in a dressing room when you first play, in my case,

when I first played for England and Bob was a senior player it progressed through the time that Bob was captain and I was his vice captain and then it progressed on when I took over the captaincy for him in 1984 I'm afraid I had to

ditch him pretty soon after you he got basically to the end of his legs at that stage he'd worn his legs down to Mia Stump so by that stage he'd run out of steam a bit but then we picked it up again when we came into comedy boxes together So, I mean, Bob gave a lot of time and service and energy and all sorts of things.

I mean, he was a very clear-minded man, a very sharp, witted man. And we had a lot of good times together on and off the field. And therefore, there's a lot to remember. You mentioned the fact that his legs were not in a great state by 1984. It's extraordinary that he actually managed to play as long as he did because he was in a really bad way in the late 70s. Yes, I mean, if you bowl quickly for any length of time, and I mean, his career spanned a good sort of 10, 15 years or so, if you bowl quickly for any length of time, there is going to be wear and 10. I mean, the great fast bowlers have all had problems of some sort or other.

I mean, our great friend and colleague Ian Botham, Sir Ian Bigham, is finally succumbing to back problems and hit problems, that sort of thing, which have caught up with him after all his time. But the least you expect is a couple of dodgy toenails. if you're bowling quickly and in Bob's case with a body that to be honest didn't seem designed for the task as such you are going to put immense stress on certainly the lower limbs so back hips knees feet all take a huge pounding and one of the things you have to admire about Bob is the way that over the years yes there were injuries so there were times where he'd be sideline because of the injury and even in 81 they were worried about his fitness before that infamous heading the test match then to the extent they were just about to drop him and he talked his

way back into the side which Mike I'm sure alluded to even then you know you have to be very careful with your premier fast bowler that you don't overdo it with him but I mean the simple truth is that fast bowlers learn to cope with pain they become very stoic you know they just becomes second nature and therefore I think you actually learn from that through all the usual things you know determination pride you learn from all the these things, just to keep yourself going, whatever life throws at you. What made him so good? I mean, he was tall, as you said. He was quick. How quick was he? I mean, you must have faced him, of course, playing for Leicestershire when he was playing for Warwickshire and Surrey.

What was he like? Two things. He had a slightly awkward action. So the angles sometimes probably made it harder for right handers. He'd angled more into the right hander. He had height and he had a good high action. So from a high action and natural height, you get bounce. And to be fair to Bob, there were times where he wasn't at full pelt, but he saved most of his better performances for England, of course. And when he was at full pace, I would guess he would be sort of 95-ish, that sort of pace, so not to be sniffed at. And for someone like that, and in fact, for all pace-ballers, again, to be honest, you know, they Put the effort in now and again, so you get the 95 mile an hour ball out.

If you're up at the late 80s, 90-ish for a lot of a spell, again, that's putting pressure on a batsman who is well aware that you're coming at him quickly. And then there are times where you have to just to peg it back again, you know, mid-80s, depending on conditions, circumstances, and the amount of puff left in your lungs. So all in all, I think you look at the highs, look at the great spells of his. and they were nasty and quick. Mike talked about the angle that he bowled from, he came in from behind the umpire,

that he had his hand concealed behind his back for what looks like quite a long way, but he also ran from a long way back as well, didn't he? How long was that run up? Too big for most village grounds, put it that way. And of course, headingly, he made the point it was quite nice coming down the hill as well rather than up it. Yeah, he could change that, of course.

All fast bowlers, again, we'll have times where they go from the ultimately very long run, sometimes the shorter run. Bob needed that long run to give him the rhythm. Therefore, you can assume that he was actually mighty fit. You know, when he was up at

fully fit and firing Bob Willis, he was mighty fit and would bowl, you know, reasonably long spells when need be, but obviously better in shorter, sharper bursts. So yes, you've got a long run. You've got momentum. You've got rhythm. That action, of course, was copied by all sorts of people.

In homage, I would say. You could say something else as well sometimes, but it was such a unique action, both the run-up and the final delivery. I mean, all sorts of people like Graham Gooch, for instance, would try and copy it, imitate it in a humorous fashion at the end of games where games had basically died and there was 10, 15 minutes for a bit of light humor at the end of a test match somewhere. So it was very recognizable, very distinctively Bob.

And, I mean, there are all sorts of people. If you go back a generation before Bob for someone like John Price at Middlesex, you know, a very distinctive run-up, there are all sorts of people who can imitate. But so you can do it in a friendly fashion. It's very, very hard to actually get the pace, the bounce, the angle, the skill that someone like Bob actually had. Obviously, Mike told us a great deal about that day at Headingley and the instructions that he gave to Bob and the conversations that he had the night before over a couple of drinks, which you may well have been there. I don't know.

But what do you remember of that day in the field and just that extraordinary bowling performance, 8 for 43? Well, the thing I remember specifically was sort of the deathly hush. that surrounded the ground for so much of that. There was an absolute tension, and when you haven't got many runs to play with, and when Australia gets off to a decent start, you're starting to think, despite the both of the heroics of the previous day,

getting us actually ahead in the game for the first time, you're starting to think, well, actually this game is going to go against us. So the key change between them, between Mike, Bob, and Ian that they made, was the change of ends that allowed Bob come down the hill to the coast or lane end. Now, in the field at that stage, as a bitch-part player,

you're obviously keen not to drop a catch if it comes your way. You're keen to stop any of you, because you've got the two things. Obviously, taking any catches that come your way is vital, and if you can stop any runs going past you. So where I was at cover, if anything came close to me, you try and stop it by hook or by crook. But you also have that great feeling that at least you can contribute, at least you can do something about it,

Because one of the other things I remember of the day is that those poor guys who were sitting on the balcony of the dressing room there and watching on from the side, they were more nervous, I'm sure, than any of us out in the middle, because you are helpless. You're sitting on the balcony. There's absolutely nothing you can do apart from keep your fingers crossed. Whereas at least if you're involved, yes, there is the possible downside you might drop a catch. But at least if you're out there involved and soaking up and soaking in that electric atmosphere, then if you're involved, then if you're, you're in the possible downside, you might drop a catch. It's one of those things that sets sort of the hairs tingling and everything bristles. And it's a great place to be actually because, I mean, as time went on during that day, as the wickets tumbled, as Bob's tally went up, we started to change our mindset again.

You started to think, actually, we could be part of history. You don't necessarily think about that in that exact phrasing at the time. But you start to think, okay, we may, we can win this game. And as you get closer and closer, the tension mounts up, every catch that goes in the air. I mean, people like Mike Gatting, diving at mid-on, Graham Dilliot, third man, taking one that might or might not have gone over his head,

had he got it wrong. You know, those were all good catches and all things that were sparked by the atmosphere. Was there a point where you thought, we're going to do this? This is extraordinary. And when you're part of history, it must be very hard to think history is happening.

It is. I think, I mean, it's probably very easy all this time, all these many years, from the time to say, oh yes, we were absolutely thinking about history and, you know, we were already writing our geographies and, you know, so it, no, it's, you don't. You are focused on the here and now, again, going back to what I was saying just now. When you're me at cover, for instance, I'm looking at the batsman and making sure that I am as alert as I possibly can be, which, of course, in those circumstances, comes pretty

naturally, and you want to make sure you stop a ball or catchable. It's as simple as that. You don't really have time to think this is going to go down as the way, one of the great games of history. You're just trying to make sure you don't make a mistake, trying to make sure you can contribute as and when needed in the field. And so all you can do is sort of sense the change in the dynamic out in the middle. And I mean, I'd hate to put a figure on it.

But when they were, say, six or seven down, I think that's when we started to think that the momentum had changed dramatically in the opposite direction. Because that first wicket was going well. We weren't getting chances. We weren't creating chances, as it were. we weren't taking Wicked. So when the Wicked started to tumble, and I mean, I've seen this equally from the other side of the,

from the other view as a batsman, where sometimes you feel as though the pressure is inexorable on you as a batsman. This time, we felt that in the field, we were the ones exerting the pressure. And even down the order, I mean, Dennis Lillit came in and tried to throw the bat a bit and sort of tried to put us, you try and change the dynamic back again.

You've got people like Rod Marsh, who, you know, 20 minutes from Rod Marsh in his, style, that could have changed the game back towards Australia as well. But again, as I say, the catches were taken and that's when you, that's when you realise that that's when you start to think this could be our day, it could be an extraordinary day, but more importantly, it could be our day. Looking at his career, I mean, we can talk about Headingley in 1981 and those of us who remember it could talk about it for hours, I think, David. But you look at his, look at Bob's record overall, 325 test match wickets at an average of 25.2. 80-ODI wickets.

from 64 ODIs at an average of 24.6. These are great figures. He was a considerable talent, England's most successful, a fourth most successful wicket-taking bowler. Yeah, I think figures sometimes lie, but sometimes they tell a very valid story. And for someone like Bob to take that number of wickets

is testimony to his resilience as an individual, to his determination, and of course to his skill. in an era where test match wickets were everything actually to be honest I mean the ODI wickets would have been handy one day international cricket was very different in that era we played it at a different pace and in fact the opening bowler was as key

or probably more key then because you played the first few it was like a test match so any wickets you got at the start of it all were very very valuable and they're still valuable now of course but I think all of us would tend to look specifically at test match figures I mean I for one really don't give a monkeys about the ODI figures they were fun they were important but in comparison to test match figures that's where we all I think believe our reputations lie and therefore if you have good test match figures then that is a very very

good thing to have against your name he was I mean he was an extraordinary performer because as I say he didn't look the part necessarily certainly not initially when he first made his debut as a very gangly young man probably about 20 years old or so a very gangly tall fellow you wouldn't necessarily look at him at that stage and say this man's going to get 300 odd test wickets

but again it just proves how resilient how determined he was and you you see a bit of the character of course when you listen to him and I've known him for 10 15 years on the field and a good 20, 13 years years off the field. You think you look back at his TV career as a pundit. Again, you see the clarity of thought. You don't always agree with the opinions, but there is a strength of opinion

that is, shall we say, several degrees stronger than most of us, allow ourselves to have live on television. So there was a strength of opinion, a clearness of thought. He wouldn't suffer fools gladly. He made a reputation, I think, equal. firmly off the field, as he had done on the field in the first part of his career. David, stay with us because I want to hear more about his broadcasting career, his live post-c cricket or his live post-playing. But let's bring in Vic Marks, a test match specials, very own Vic Marks, of course. And Vic, your thoughts about Bob, it seems extraordinary that we're paying tribute to him that he's no longer with us because he was such a larger-than-life

presence in our cricket lives for so many years. well he certainly was in mind because he kept in England when I first played in the test match and played quite familiar as David so I remember them better and I mean

I looked at him I remember looking at him and he was sort of in the autumn of his career probably when I played a few games and you looked at him in the dressing room at the end of the day with those in these sparrows legs

and you know not a bicep to be seen and pigeon chest as well And he thought, well, this man can't possibly for anyone, for England or even, you know, Warwickshire seconds. But he could. I mean, he did not have the body of a great fast bowler, but he had the mind. He had such a strong mind that he was so fiercely determined that he kind of, against all the odds, made himself into one of England's greatest fast bowlers. He was stubborn. He was immensely full of determination of willpower.

And that's what got him there rather than sort of a whole. bucket full of raw talent. What was he like as a captain, Victor? We've heard a bit from David. We heard from Mike Brearley before about how he didn't suffer fools gladly. What was it like to be captain by him? Well, I don't think he was a tactical genius,

but it's quite difficult to do that when you are about 40 or 50 yards away from your closest person on the field because he had such a long run-up. But when he was bowling, and that was his big disaster, he was miles from anyone when he set off. I think he's the only

ever specialist fast bowler to Captain England I've been looking at it today and he was quite successful as a captain but as I say his main virtue was that he was quite inspirational as a captain by his own personal example but he was also keen very keen like Ian

welcome newcomers into the team he'd give us all ridiculous nicknames and he was he was you were conscious of the fact that he wanted to draw you into the group as quickly as possible. He was a pretty good capture, but he wasn't really esk

in making cunning plans here and there. What was your nickname, Victor? It wasn't a great nickname. Fowler was Foxy, Pringle was Soxie, and then, rather, who sort of all played at the same time, Norman Clowns was flashed, and I'd almost forgotten it,

but I think he was scared, which he thought was hilarious. And that's the thing, isn't it? You know, people think about Bob and the Bob Willis that we know a little bit from watching the verdict, the debate on Sky Sports and think, well, he was miserable and he was grumpy. But actually, he was a lot of fun. He had a great sense of humour, Bob, didn't he?

Absolutely. I mean, he took the cricket really seriously. He was very, quite intense about the cricket. Away from the cricket, he had a terrific dry sense of humour. And as David was saying, opinions on just about everything. I wasn't there, but when he started, you know, he was at back of the bus. like a little fulcrum of the sort of social scene with on a tour.

And, of course, when I was playing with him, he was slightly compromised because he was captain. So he had to be a little more distant than, you know, behave properly. So he, no, he was not a kill joy by any means. And sometimes he was joking, and he was so dry, you had to blink a bit. Check, is that a joke or not?

Vic, look, we'll let you go. Thank you so much for being part of this and paying tribute to Bob, who I'm sure we're all going to miss such, a lot. But Vic, thank you, thank you so much. Victor Marks, who won his first cap with Bob as captain. And David Gower, let's just go back to you and talk a little bit more about what Bob was like, you know, behind the scenes. And actually, I was remembering that he, because he lived not very far away from me actually in the last few years. And I did a pub quiz with him a couple

of times in our local pub. And he was very good on a number of topics, including cathedral architecture. I remember he was very good once in one round of identifying cathedrals. Does that surprise you, or is that part of Bob's hidden talents? No, it doesn't surprise me, although it's come as news to me. I have to admit that. We've had many other discussions on all sorts of things.

I suppose the biggest common denominator of the field would have been wine. You know, both the Merrill Willis, the BMW wines of the last 10, 20 years now, it's probably 20 years now probably, but that all came because of his friendship with Bob friendship with Jeff Merrill, one of the great winemakers from South Australia, who he met down there on one of his earlier tours, became great friends with, we're all great friends

of Jeff's now. And so the collaboration stemmed from that. And Bob and Ian, you know, both claim to have extensive knowledge of the wines of the world, especially Australia because of all our tours down there. And so that was, that was always something which we could share and enjoy. As anyone who likes their wine knows full well, so we had all that. But, you know, you talk to Bob on any topic he would have a strong opinion most likely there are very few topics as far as I remember that he had no opinion on or might defer to someone else because he was bright he was bright and he was interested um yeah and as as we've just said you know off the field this apparently dour demeanour that some people uh don't like so much or you haven't warmed to

on the TV that is it's so confusing because behind that man um is a man um is a man with a real generosity of spirit. It was a man with immense humour. It could be completely off the wall as well. And, of course, with the Dylan haircut and then the other thing you could tell you, you could recite any Bob Dylan lyric of anything he'd ever sung. And the fact that he took, his name was one of his middle names. Robert George Dylan Willis.

I remember in the Caribbean one, you mean, various times on tour, probably in the broadcasting time, more than the playing time. There will be times where if you just got a, music machine, whatever generation, a couple of speakers set up and a bit of Dylan. He would sing along to Dylan for hours, along with all the lyrics, tuneless, of course. I mean, I have to say the real Bob, or the real Dylan,

was infinitely more musical, let's put it that way. But our Bob knew every lyric. He had an extraordinary playing career. He had such a long, distinguished broadcasting career as well. And I think it's interesting as well, isn't it, the current generation of cricketers knew him as a player, knew him as a commentator, but knew him as a player as well. And I'm thinking of a couple of things.

Do you remember Alistair Cook imitating his bowling style against India, I think in 2014? And also Stuart Broad, who is, of course, the last Stingham bowler to take eight wickets in an Ashes test match. Before that test match at Trent Bridge, he had a long chat with Bob the night before, didn't he? Well, I think it's lovely when that happens, because there often is a sort of us and them divide.

When you're a player, you look at the people who are talking about you on television and radio, and you don't always necessarily agree, of course. There's a sort of certain amount of human nature in that. And I think it takes until that time where the first part of a career is maybe finishing. And in fact, Stuart Broad is quite a good example, because Stuart, the last couple of years, has been much more interested in the media and has become so much more fluent at. He's very good on radio, very good on TV, talks very well now. And I think all of us all think, well, maybe we could make a career out of this.

Bob obviously did, and he did it very well in his own inimitable style. But one of the things that I thought was rather good actually under Andrew Strauss was that when he was director of cricket for the ECB, was that he was quite keen to get our generation, not involved all the time, but at least to be on speaking terms. So we'd have the odd dinner with current England players and sit down in my case with some of the batsmen, just have dinner, Bob the same sort of thing, Ian both in the same sort of thing.

And I think it's really good when that happens because although there is that tendency to feel that those in the media will criticize, because inevitably that is part of the job, especially on bad days, what they never do is lose their empathy for an England team. So myself, Bob, Ian, look at this for the next generation, Mike Atherton, Nasra, Hussein, you never lose your empathy for English cricket. and underneath it all, however neutral you have to be or wish to be or pretend to be, you always want England to do well. And so sometimes that goes missing, sometimes that gets lost in translation, as it were. So I think it's really good when players of different generations come together and exchange notes. I think it's very positive. Just finally, David, if there was one thing that you could remember Bob Bai,

if there is a final tribute and a final thought to him that you'd like to share with us, so we'd love to hear it. Well, I mean, because he was sort of, what was it, sort of four or five inches taller than me, probably. I always just remember him looking down that peculiar nose of his, probably with a glass of, shall we say, just for the sake of, should we say, Jeff Merrill Shiraz in his hand. And he's going, how is your day, Loubo? Had a good one? Yes, Bob, we have. Thank you.

David, thank you so much for sharing your memories of Bob. Just a couple of tributes to read to you before we finish. Sky Sports Managing Director Rob Webster said, our hearts go out to Bob's family at such a sad time. We've lost an icon of British sport and a wonderful man, a cricketer of fantastic talent. His career was etched with high points and incredible achievements at the highest level. Captaining England and setting a tremendous standard as a fast bowler, his game was the stuff of legend and his records will stand the test of time. Joining Sky and becoming part of our coverage three decades ago, he made a similar impact on how we have broadcast the game

to our viewers. His style and in particular his voice will always be remembered fondly. We shall miss him. And in a statement, Bob's family said they were heartbroken to lose our beloved Bob, who was an incredible husband, father, brother and grandfather. He made a huge impact on everybody he knew and we will miss him terribly. The ECB said they were forever thankful for everything he's done for the game. Cricket has lost a dear friend. And everyone at Test Match Special sends their condolences to his wife, Lauren, his daughter Katie, his brother David and his sister Anne. Thanks for the memories, Bob. BBC Sounds,

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