Test Match Special - Catchin' Sachin: the Root to the record

Episode Date: July 28, 2025

With Joe Root now second on the all time Test run-scorers list, Jonathan Agnew, Sir Alastair Cook and Cheteshwar Pujara ask if he can pass Sachin Tendulkar's 15,921 runs.

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you're getting a fair exchange rate with no extra markups. Be smart. Join the 15 million customers who choose Wise. Download the Wise app today or visit Wise.com. T's and C's and C's Apply. podcast on BBC Sounds. Hello and welcome to the Test Match Special podcast where we're celebrating another record-breaking achievement in the remarkable career of Joe Root from his debut in Nugpur to another major milestone in Manchester. The TMS podcast on BBC Sounds.

One man following events with considerable interest, I suspect, is called Joe Root, who is a young Yorkshire opener who's been celebrating. collected for England's test tour to India this winter. Joe Root, good afternoon to you. Afternoon, you're all right? Yeah, I'm fine. Congratulations. Great stuff. Thanks, thank you very much. When did it all start? When did you first pick up a cricket bet? I think I got shoved one in my hand when I was about two weeks old. As he bowls to Root, who picks him up over deep midwicket and that is going to be just six.

It just carried over the ropes. And that was a fine shot, a really meaty blow. I said did he have the power? He did there. Joe, it's all been a bit of a whirlwind. How's the England experience been so far? It's been fantastic, obviously a great learning opportunity. Got a taster with the first three test matches and how to finally get an opportunity. It's been phenomenal.

And who was it who gave you the fantastic news then the day before? Alistair Cuck gave me the news, which is obviously nice to receive and just really proud. 259 for 4. Rit on 96. Brakeswell goes into Bolton now, and that's nerdled away down towards third man, and there it is. Root's first Test 100 on a Saturday at Leeds in front of his home crowd. Huge roar goes up, and he gets a hug from Bearstone, a milestone in any cricketer's life,

and possibly the first of many for Joe Root, a maiden test match 100. Root on 97's, a short leg, a slip, and in goes Herrera. From this end, the nursery end, he bowls. On the leg stumped, it's way to the leg side. There's three here, I reckon, let's see. It might only be two. The field is giving chase. The crowd really want Root to turn and come back for the third.

Here he comes. The throw on the bounce. And look at Joe Ruth to celebrate this return to the England team. Drops for the final test of the ashes. He's back for the first test of the summer. and celebrates with a hundred not out. And Matt Pryor, another in rehabilitation, as it were, who's coming back into the fold, gives him a great hug and says,

well done. And all around, Lords, those that remain, and are still a fair number. Thousands, 20,000 maybe, are on their feet. Trouton 99. Here comes Daryl Mitchell, bustling in. Root steps forward, looks to chop. You have dropped out because we stopped, but it's running away. Now to the byway boundary for four.

And Joe Root looks a little sheepish as he then hugs Ollie Poep. But he's done it. It is another 100 in the career of Joe Root. 100 number 27. Now he kisses the badge. Now he raises both arms. And that familiar smile is back again. Consecutive hundreds, back to back innings.

For the third time in his career, Joe Root, open starts. He gives himself room. He calls it out to the cover. And Joe Root goes to 34 test hundreds. He jumps in the air, he raises his back to the crowd. Everyone up on their feet to witness a man do something that no other England player has done before. We salute you, Joe Root.

He is quite simply England. simply England's greatest. And it's absolutely right. He checked the record on his own. Take it in, Joe. We are watching a genius. Two days ago, 33, here you are, 34th. Well done.

Cheers, thank you. Explain to a batting dunce what batting Nirvana actually is. Are you literally just standing there and is playing? It's as if you're like hovering outside of your body and it's just doing it on autopilot. doing it on autopilot and I think it's only really happens four or five times in your career but that's what you're always searching for when you when you go out and practice and you do all the work and drills that's what you're trying to get yourself in that place where you can just be

on autopilot and you know if it doesn't work out you've just got to I guess that's a way of trying to keep improving and getting better and that's sort of a driver for me is every day kind I find how can I get close to that state where you feel like it's just happening automatically. He needs four runs. He's waiting now, bat raised. Jamal on his way, scuttles in, bowls to him, and he drives straight down the ground. It's beaten the mid on field to want to chase here for him. The ball's creeping towards the boundary.

It's just going to make it. And Joe Root has done it. He's become the highest scoring Englishman in test match history. And he's done so undemonstrably. Does he know? There's no raising of the bat, there's no kissing of the badge, there's no jumping up and down. He's really hit more centuries than anybody else. And now it's 147th test match.

He's beaten Sir Alastair Cook's record of 12,472 runs. And I must say it's highly likely that whatever route's final tally will be, it'll never be beaten. never be beaten. Comes down the wicket and guides it away, down to deep backward point and there's the run. That takes Root into second place in the all-time test run scorer list. He's got past Rick and bonding and the crowd. The crowd is rising to him. He's out there on his own now. He's got no one left to surpass except the great Sachin Tendold Yes, another special moment for Joe Root yesterday who lies behind only Tendulka

and earlier today, Root reflected on that achievement with Alison Mitchell. Joe, many congratulations for passing that incredible milestone yesterday. What was that moment like for you in the middle when you went past Ricky Poncing's marker? Yeah, I mean, it was a great day for batting first or foremost. I think the platform that was laid by the guys the previous night was outstanding.

And then, yeah, I mean, it was really quite cool. I mean, to experience a whole ground standing like that for you is a really nice feeling. But at the same time, you've got a job to do and you know that it's a huge game within this series, a big series. We've got a real chance of trying to get in a strong position going into these last two days. And ultimately, that's what you play for, right?

is to set games up or chase big scores down and get your team across the line. So that was the main focus. It was obviously very touching, but yeah, there was bigger fish to fry. Yeah, I know there's a focus on winning this match and the series, of course. But in that moment, I think Ben was there with you as well. He looked a little bit of mused. Was he aware of the significance of the 120 mark? I don't think so.

But again, that's the whole point, really, is that it's something probably, I look back on at the end of my career rather than right now there's so many more important things that we have to handle and make sure that we get right so it was a really cool day something I'll say in time I'll try and take it in properly

and then sort of appreciate what I've achieved but there's so much important cricket still to be played within this series within this game and obviously in the next little while so that's the main focus right now. Have you had many messages already there? Have you seen Ricky Ponzing? Because he's actually on the ground. I just actually seen him this morning. It's very nice for him to come over. So again like

Ricky's someone that I grew up admiring watching, you know, trying to emulate copy in the garden at my local club trying to play the pool shot that he's obviously world famous for. So even just to be spoken about in the same sentence as those guys are people that you grew up wanting to emulate and you know pretending to be is is pretty cool and that must be a bit surreal for say your dad you know and everyone else who saw you as that little lad running around the outfield at sheffield collegiate what do you think it means to your family i think they're obviously incredibly proud and um they put a huge amount of working to helping me get here whether that be taking me to to games providing opportunities giving up their time um you know grandparents

my wife as well having to deal with everything on the side of the of it all, going through it with you without having any sort of control over what happens. So there's so many people coaches from club cricket all the way up to international cricket. They've given me their time, their

wisdom. So, you know, I'm extremely grateful for that too. And by simply playing the games that you do, staying in the moment, looking to win matches, these records are coming, but you've only missed two test matches your entire career, and neither of those were through

injury what do you do what keeps you fit and injury free to have this longevity as well i've been quite fortunate i think um you know i have i have had injuries but they've generally fallen outside of test matches have broken pretty much all my fingers at different points um from dropping too many catches and stuff but um yeah i i think more than anything you've got to make sure you're prepared to play and there's element of fitness within that but i think through experience you learn need to do to get ready, whether that from it would be a skill point of view, from a physical point of view, from mental point of view.

Yeah, I feel like I've had a good handle of that and I've been very lucky in terms of managing to avoid injury. Thankfully, I don't run in and try and bowl fast and I haven't got that sort of worry in terms of loading the old bouncer in there when I'm bowling, but apart from that,

yeah, I've been quite fortunate that I don't have to put my body through you know what Woody might have to or Stokesy and those guys that, you know, bowling 2030 overs in an inning so that's probably helped slightly too. We can't have this chat without mentioning the name of Satchin Tendalker. Because notably

the one time you shared a test match with him was your debut match. What was that like for you and what esteem, I suppose, did you hold Satchin in in that moment? Huge. I mean, he made his test debut before I was born and then to be playing you know on the same ground as him to get the chance to play against him was was incredibly cool so again someone you you grew up watching admiring um you know trying to learn from to be on the same field watch him go and play even throughout that whole series as 12 man

just seeing the reception he'd get when you know india would lose a wicket and the whole crowd would cheer it was bizarre um so to see him go about his business and to get to play in a series where he was still playing was really quite you know a memorable experience that I'll never forget does it feel bizarre for you that you are now second behind him in the all-time list

and within your sights potentially I mean it's not something that I will focus on those sort of things should look after themselves the focus has to be about winning games and like I say setting them up if we're earlier on in the test match and if we need to chase something down figuring out how to play that situation well

and working with the guys out there to get us across the line. So it might sound a little bit boring and methodical or, you know, but ultimately that's what I need to do to help England win and that's why we play the game, right? It's to be involved in big series like this,

in big games and want to really go out there and put a really strong performance in for the ten other guys in the dressing room and forever in the ground watching. In Turkey, if you're willing to take a detour, you'll discover the food, even social media hasn't got to yet. From Michelin Stars and Wine in Euler to traditional recipes and the home of Baclava in the east. Discover the culinary capital of Gaziantem and talk to the locals.

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Sir Alastair Cook, who's England's test run score. record Joe Roots surpassed and Cheteshu Pajara who played a hundred and three tests for India and knows all about what Satchin Tendulka means throughout the game not just in that part of the world. We've got Andy's ultimate here as well to crunch some numbers. So let's go back to Nagpur cookie. I was there. You went in and told him that he was making his debut quite an important game actually wasn't it because it was extraordinary series that one and it was if England lost it would have tied the series, wouldn't it? And coming back from behind and all of that, I mean, it was only been done once before by Gower's team. Big game. It was a big game. Why did you choose him?

Does it get some extra batting in? Well, at that time, Samet Battell was batting at six, and that kind of gave us another option. So, like most England's sides, we started off the series with three seamers, one spinner, and then Samet is the all-round spinner, trying to play to our strengths. That obviously didn't work.

The man on my right helped. himself to a big double hundred and we watched him what seemed like for days and also we'd batted he'd played in a warm-up game against us for India A or whatever team you want to call it and helped himself to another hundred so we saw a lot of a lot of him to start the series and as a series unfolded I think so it really almost came on that tour and I'm pretty sure this is when my memory of selection and it was almost like the 17th man you know like they take 16 then you go to you go there and on tour and you often take a 17th the guy for experience promising youngster promising youngster without but

had earned is right because it's got a lot of runs the lines and and had this name route had always been you know around you know this this outcome of graham thought it was a massive fan and we heard you got to get him in got to get him in so I I can't remember the selection meeting before that to get him in there but I remember in by Johnny Beirstow played because someone went home, I think, I'm going to say it might have been Ian Bell, went home for a child or missed the test match. So Johnny Beirstow had played in the summer in that last test match in the South African when Andrew Strauss's last test match with KP missed.

So there's kind of that hierarchical system. But straight away on that tour, when you're looking, when we're looking at the players in the nets and playing spin in particular, I think it was probably after. after the first test match where Andy Flour said to me well you know who our best player of spinners and I said who's that and he said it was Joe Rue

I said what do you mean he just makes the fewest mistakes in the nets out of all our top order players so that discussion had started but obviously with selection and not the politics but the next year and you do want to you've got to try and have consistency

a little bit anyway we got to the last test match where we didn't have to look we only lose and Sam it had done okay nothing nothing brilliant but nothing disastrous and actually we thought we'd actually go in with another batter and

it was I don't think Johnny did play that last game I'm going to have to someone's going to have to check the score card but Joe Root came in and he hasn't looked back and the final thing isn't it about the player you watch in nets and you watch him operate he operated

really well really good around the dressing room had that smile on his face a little bit was very a lot more cheekier than he is definitely yeah as uh and was i want to say the practical joker but he had that kind of edge to him um uh the final thing is how you handle a situation when you go out to bat and do you freeze or do you just embrace a challenge and forever you'll go if you go ever find that footage which no one ever watched that that series because i don't think sky had it and no one had the i don't even have photographers there did they or some kind of Well, that's right, of course. A band from the ground. Yeah, exactly. So no one's actually seen any pictures of this tour, really, or anything.

But Joe Roo walked out to bat with a massive smile on his face and his England cap on. And he just embraced his situation. And now it was, obviously, he scored 13,000 runs. But 20 minutes into that, kind of looked, and you just knew. You just knew he was made for international cricket. If you had told me he had to scored 13,000 test runs when I first saw him play, I don't think so. I'll hold my hands up and say,

I didn't see he had that much skill and potential. In all three forms, he's worked incredibly hard to become the player he had. I think it was off the top of my head as well. I'm not sure he played any practice games, did he? I mean, wasn't it, were the Tess more or else just rattled off one off the other? Would he have played a game? No, we had three warm-up games at all.

But warm-ups are not between tests? So I think he got a 60 or 70 in the third warm-up game. of that tour where we kind of might have rested a couple of so-called big guns if you want to say the guns of you know who kind of guaranteed a place or who had scored a couple of runs in some warm-ups i think he might have got 60 or 70 in one of the games but you wouldn't have played much but i do remember that series because that that is one series where i had great memories as a batter not as a team because that's the one series which india has lost on their home soil against England and after that India has never lost at home because I've been part of many test series

and that was probably one of the best test series I've been part of where we started off really well at Endaba as won the first test one the first test second test match that's where things started going England's way and I still remember Alistair's in Innings because I was standing at short leg he ended up playing so many sweep shot that I had to feel with her chest pad Because him and Kave in Petersen, both of them had a very big partnership, I remember. In Mumbai. Mumbai. Yeah.

And I think I can't remember whether it was third test match at Calcutta. Was it third test match where you got 180? Was it third or a fourth one? No, third one, 190. I'll look after every one of my 10 runs. But when you saw Root, Chateswa, what did you think? young lad yeah because even in the fourth test match i was just coming to that point because i was constantly being a young player i was constantly standing at a silly point short leg okay

so i remember the best players who plays well against spinners when you are standing at the short leg you always look at the footwork because you're just trying to find the ball and how precise is the footwork that's how you judge a player against a spinner and joe root made his debut at naqpur and that's where i was standing at short leg and i was seeing a guy he was making a debut, who hasn't played Indian spinners in the past, who is playing his first international game, and he was so precise with his footwork. And I was so surprised because I had seen some other players of the England team

who didn't have that precise footwork. What do you actually mean? What do you actually mean by precise footwork? So you judge the length very quickly, because most of the times, when you are stuck in between, and many foreign players get stuck in between... Front foot, back foot. Between, yeah, between front foot and back foot.

They are stuck in the crease. But Joe Root was very decisive in his footwork, whether he was playing on back foot or front foot. He was very decisive. And you can see with his footwork. He was very quick. And he had a little more time compared to the other batters. Because when you make that decision,

you have extra time to face the spinners. You try not to be cumbersome. He's actually taller than you think, Joe, as well, isn't he? He's actually got a good stride. He's a tall man. Yeah, you try not to be cumbersome. I think a lot of players who play, spin Paul in the subcontinent are very rigid you know you've got to have that

dexterity whether it's your wrists or your feet and he's got it in both he's got it in both you know he's so as Vajara said he's so quick on his feet but he doesn't make mistakes and he doesn't get caught the idea about spin and is not getting caught half and half not getting caught in that danger zone you either got to get as close to the ball as you can or far away from the ball as you can to allow it to spin and straight away Joe has always had that ability to do it and now you watch him play spin he has every single shot in the book and what is so impressive about me when he plays spin it's all so risk-free so he managed to

score against the best spinners in the world with risk-free shots and if you can do that guess what you're going to be way more consistent than anyone else i look at him for a quicker bowler's perspective and i love the way that off-stump wristy well they're they're length balls really that go skimming off at point. I mean, he must be a very, very difficult man to bowl to because anything's relatively straight, of course, boom, but he's so strong. Stroh's strong around that off-stumper just outside. You've got no margin of rare at all. He is, and I've been telling some of the Indian bowlers, I have never been the captain, so I can't say much about that, but I've been telling that he's so strong on the off-side,

you can't, because some of the Indian bowlers tends to swing the ball, when there's a little bit of help from the pitch, they think that they can nick him off. while he's playing his cover drive, but you can't. He's so strong, and you can't block him on the offside because they have tried doing that. They thought that they can have 7-2 field, but even if you have 7-2 field, even if you have 7-2s, on the off-side,

he knows how to pierce that gap, and you can't stop him on the off-side. He's so strong. And I think he has scored more than 3,000 runs in his test career against seam bowlers between point to cover, which is incredible. You can't go 7-2 to him. He will find a way.

No, no, he'll find a way of finding gaps and you've taken out two big dismissals. So I actually agree. But if you have to, you have to just make him play. Great players don't really have many weaknesses, but you just increase the odds by bowling a bit straighter. Yeah, yeah. What does he need, come on then, Andy. What does he need to overtake Sachin Tendulka? He is currently 2,512 runs behind Satchin Tendulka.

Tenelka 15,921 route 13,409. So in terms of speculating when he might overtake Assatian, at his current rate, looking back to when he sort of entered his sort of current purple patch after he was caught reverse scooping Bumra in Rajcott, since then we've seen him, his run rates come down closer to what it was pre-Bazard. and he's been incredibly consistent averaging in the mid-60s with 800s and 19 tests 101 runs per test since then so that would take him 25 matches if we look at his runs per test since basball began that's 88 that would take sort of 28 29 his overall career runs per test 85 that would take 29 or 30 matches so we're sort of looking somewhere between 25 and and 30 of us he might go on an even purpler purple patch but that's

but that's sort of roughly where we're looking at. Okay, so we can't look ahead in terms of series, yet we don't know them yet, do we? No. Stretching on the ICC table. If he has a wildly productive couple of years, it's possible it could be during the 2027 ashes, maybe the winning runs at the Oval in 2027.

To go past Tendulka, how about that? Well, he mentioned the ashes. That's still something that remains, isn't it? I mean, there are two things about Joe. First, he was dropped, of course, wasn't he? the very time really he was dropped. You axed him? I axed him in the last game of Sydney.

You did. I thought that would give me one more game later on in my career while I held the record. Is that why he was opening in that series? Or was he batting at three? I think he was batting at three. Where he was like we originally planned that he would bat at six.

I actually can't remember. It was a case. And I remember talking to Andy about it because I think he'd scored more runs than me in that series. was just taking him out of the firing line. No other reason of just trying to look after him a little bit. And, you know, it was an incredibly tough talk.

And how old was he? 21, 22. And I remember the conversation with him, with Andy. And he was like, no, I think this in the long run will do Joe Root, the world are good. So am I trying to take credit for dropping him? It's been a good pub quiz question. Years to come.

I mean, no one's dropped Sachin Tendulka, presumably, did they? Who was the man, when he overtakes Sassan Dendulka? Who was the man who dropped Joe Root? Oh, that was just another knife in my back. But the only, the one thing, I've never actually spoken to that Joe, because at the end of that series, there was a lot of other stuff going on and did went on. But is it a coincidence when he came back in in his first game, we've got a double under the next test match?

Was that just that little realisation that, I don't know this? it's amazing how you can if you want put stories together and get a conclusion whether it was that real remind of how hard you have to work how pressure is playing for England was I don't know like people like he was never ever going to lie down was he he was always going to come back but did anyone speak to him after that tour yeah and he would have spoken to but then there was quite a complicated time in English cricket and he never coached again after the notes coached England again but What about the 100 in Australia?

I mean, are you backing him? He's got five tests coming up? Absolutely, I'm backing him to do it. There's no reason why he hasn't scored 100 there in terms of talent, in terms of... No, technique. He scored runs everywhere, he runs on bouncy wickets. People say it's that shot, which he scored so many runs through, you know,

through point and... Thought we were just talking about, yeah. Yeah, the one which we all makes him so hard to bowl at. It's just a bit more risky in Australia with that extra bounce. the only thing does become, if he doesn't do it in the first two test matches, it becomes a bit of the story. And I don't care how strong you are

and how good a player are. It's very hard to ignore those stories. He knows it, and then every time when you want something so much that it becomes a little bit harder, he's a man of full experience of that. He'll just have to keep, what does he do, do his basics,

do the stuff, do the process, and then he will get 100. But I think if he has to score runs in Australia, everyone knows that he's very strong on the offside, but you can't score too many runs on the offside in Australian conditions where the ball is bouncing from good length, sometimes back off length. And his cover drive, that's the shot,

which he will have to be very careful because his scoring opportunity from the cover between Gully, the Australian bullers, they are aware about that. Yeah, that's more risky in Australian conditions. So if he can find another way to score runs and try and avoid that shot for a bit, while the ball is hard and new, I think he will have a great success. So, Satchin then, come on. There's always been this kind of, I don't know, people have assumed that no one would ever overtake Satchin Tendulka.

It's just kind of been everyone has assumed that. And I wonder what it would mean, well, not just in India, but around the world, Pooge, if he does. Yeah, I think it will be a massive achievement, isn't it? no one at one stage thought that anyone can come close to Sachin Tel Luka's number of runs which he has scored in test cricket but if Joe Root achieves that it'll it'll be massive and some of the Indian fans will be disappointed they will they will it'll be quite a topic weren't it yeah it will be but at the same time I think he has worked hard he has earned this so records are to be broken and even going forward if someone carries on playing like this

Not just Joe Root, but going forward, I know that number of test matches are reducing every year. So not many players will have that opportunity, but at the same time, we have seen that whenever someone creates a record, eventually someone else breaks it. It's a great subplotter of the next couple of years, isn't it? I mean, you know Sachin very well. Is he going to be aware of Joe Root breathing down his neck now? A little bit. I think at this age, it may not bother him much, but because, look, he is a great player. He understands that in the game, there will be players who will be breaking some records.

So as a player, when you are playing for your country, the time which you spend while you are playing, that's the most memorable time. And what happens afterwards, you just keep an eye, but you're not completely bothered about it. And in terms of English batsman, Alistair, I mean, he just, you know, it's so hard to compare, isn't it? You can't go back to Wally Hammond and Colin Cowder in all of this. But in terms of the batsman that you've seen, you go back to Graham Gooch and people like that in Gower. I mean, route the most complete. Well, I don't think it is that hard on this one.

I think he is just a level above that any other English batsman we've ever had. And if you want to then argue slightly differently in terms of, well, whether we want to say boycott, we can say Gooch, that's just test cricket. If you're now throwing in the all-round package of Joe Root, if you just want to add another little bit to the argument, he averages more than all of them, I think, apart from, okay, the generation way before, it's very like the Hutton's and the Compsons, I can't have that discussion with anyone because I just don't know. I've never seen them play. I don't think anyone can, but for the guys we've all seen play and you've seen play, I can't see a player who has been as complete, as hungry with a technique which is so rock-solid.

And the score runs all over the world and as many as them. I know the extra numbers, because the guys play now more test match than they did back in the day, but I'm 100% convinced that show. It was the best bats in England have ever had the most complete, but ultimately the mess, yeah. And is he a ferocious practiser? Absolutely.

All the time. I mean, nets, nets, nets. Throwdowns, throw down, throw down, throw us. He got up, well, it was 100. 100, 100 at Lord? Did he get 100 at lords? And I went up to say, well, Danny, I said, no, it wasn't good. It wasn't that good. There's something, you know, in my backlift I wasn't happy with.

I've sorted it now. And it's just that mentality, which is so hard to get. It's easy he said, oh, yeah, people work hard. But he actually works smart as well. He knows his game so well. And he feels that he's, I like this. I like that someone, I don't know, Nick, I think as Ricky Ponting said, he's a problem solver as well.

He solves problems on the way where, rather than just saying, this is what I know, I've played 140 test matches, 150, I've scored the most runs, I know he's still looking for those solutions to become even better. And when I played with him, it was his consistency of striking the ball all the time, which would just amaze me, how many times he middled the ball, whether it was in practice. It's certainly in practice when you're really close to him or out in the middle. It was an extraordinarily high percentage of...

He used an expression to Teshua called batting nirvana. And he did that at Lord's last year, do you remember? And I said, what do you mean? And he said it's when you're almost out of your body and you're just batting and you're just not even have to think about anything. Have you ever experienced something like that? Do you know what I remember one incident because why that happens? Because when he's out there in the...

the middle, he gets that success. But I think his preparation, it is quite meticulous. He has a method to it. He knows how he's preparing. And I remember one incident when we were playing a series in India, it started raining. So the net pitches were covered. So no one was allowed to practice. But he found a cement patch somewhere and asked one of the coaches to do some throwdowns with it. So he finds solution. Even if you can't practice, you find a way to practice. So he's very particular about how he wants to prepare and that is just one incident but I've played a little bit of country cricket with him. I've spoken to him and he always says that he I mean he relies heavily on his preparation and he also because whenever we

have had battles on the field I've seen that he always looks at the opposition. He knows that if he's going to play Jaspera Bhumra, how is he going to face him? what are going to be his challenges and he does that homework before the series starts so whenever a series starts he's always in the form because from the first test match onwards

I have seen that it's always a tough task for the Indian bowlers to get him out because he comes very well prepared he knows if he's whenever we have played in India whether it's Chadeja or Ashwin one of the best spinners in India

but he has an answer to that he knows where are his scoring opportunities the TMS podcast on BBC My thanks to Chesheshua Prajara and Sir Alastair Cook. Some fascinating insights there into the start of Joe Root's international journey and just what makes him so good. Don't forget to subscribe to the Test Match Special podcast on BBC Sounds

where you'll find so much more from the TMS team including all the reaction and analysis from the test series between England and India, plus many more delights such as No Balls cricket podcast with Kate Cross and Alex Hartley to look out for their recent episode speaking to Indian superstars. I'm Riti Mandana.

Thanks for listening and we'll speak to you soon. Hello, Chris Jones here from Rugby Union Weekly. We're all over the Lions Tour of Australia. Pre-match podcast, post-match podcast, on the whistle podcast from all the Lions matches down under. We also have a special Lions' Top Ten series. We're two greats of Lions Rugby, Matt Dawson, Jamie Robertson. We've been ranking everything from icons to controversies. We've got moments, tours.

Tries. You're in the controversies, Matt? Right at the top. Jamie, you're in the Controversies. Traversies two. Indirely not your fault. It is all there. Two men who have been there, done it, and won it on a Lions tour. Get it now, Lions Top Tens on Rugby Union Weekly on BBC Sounds.