Test Match Special - County Championship: Joe Root talks Yorkshire's rout of Surrey

Episode Date: May 19, 2026

Kevin Howells presents the best of the conversations around this week's County Championship results.He talks to England's record run-scorer Joe Root following Yorkshire's huge win over Surrey, and Liam Dawson looks back at his red-ball career. Kevin also speaks to Nottinghamshire's Director of Cricket Mick Newell, Yorkshire Head Coach Anthony McGrath, and Mail on Sunday's Richard Gibson.

You're listening to the TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live. Hello, I'm Kevin Howells. Welcome to the Test Match Special podcast. The county championship is in full flow and we've reached the end of the first seven weeks of the season. To come, we'll hear from Joe Root, who talks us through Yorkshire's start at the campaign. I speak to Liam Dawson, who's saying goodbye to first-class cricket, plus McNewell at Nottinghamshire and head coach at Yorkshire Anthony McGraar. But let's begin with England's record run scorer Joe Root, who just come off the field, having watched his Yorkshire side,

beat none other than Surrey by an innings and 127 runs, including taking 15 wickets on the previous third day. Amazing how it unfolded. I don't think anyone anticipated the pitch playing like that, but I thought the way that we managed it and exploited it at different times, to get that score was, you know, from being 120 on for four, the two guys showing their seniority, their experience, getting us to that mammoth total.

and then the way the bowlers really made the ball misbehaved was outstanding. And we saw an opening, we created an opening, and we jumped on the opportunity. And I think that shows when we're playing close to our best, that we can challenge against the best teams and we can be in a conversation at the back end of the season. So the challenge for other guys now is to roll out performances like that more regularly and become a serious contender at the point of the end of the season. I know your family from dawn on,

you're granddad, they'll make sure that you know about the history of the game, you know about what things. Does Sari mean a little bit more when you're putting on the Yorkshire shirt and taking on, sorry? Yeah, always, I mean, as well, from my perspective,

there's a lot of guys that I've played with in international cricket. You know, there's a number of guys that, I've spent winter tours with and, you know, I played a huge amount with and shared memories with. So you want to make sure you get one up on them. And clearly, like you say, the history of the game, too, probably of the most successful teams in this format of the game. So you want to make sure you're trying to get your chance against them.

Yeah, of course. I mean, you've come back in to the championship fairly on a few weeks ago. how important is it as you're growing up a little bit older and of course your family will be growing a little bit older as well to try and get that balance right because no doubt really you want to be out there every single minute you can be for yorkshire to get the balance right for you individually because i'm sure it's pretty much left up to you now with all your experience how do you still find a little bit difficult to know when to rest when to play and all that sort of stuff is something that i've got a lot better out over the last few years i will admit i do find it difficult

because there is a huge draw to come and play for Yorkshire, whether it's with some of the young guys coming through and being able to try and impact their journey and their way into the first class game and hopefully higher, as with the case, with a number of the good young players we have here, or coming back and playing with guys like Adam Live and Johnny who I've grown up and have known since being 12 years old.

That's always an enjoyment factor coming back and spending time with those guys. and so it's tricky but at the same time you've got to manage your game you know I'm contracted by England there's an important test schedule and an international summer ahead and that has to be the priority unfortunately well unfortunately which I know I know what you're making so you know and also you look at the winter the amount of time you spend away from home and away from your family you want to make sure that you do get a break mentally and physically you feel like you you're in a good place and you can get through

at a certain level of performance throughout the whole summer. But mentally as well, making sure that you're nice and refreshed and you can really give everything you can to those games that you're playing in. I wonder to talk to you about your county championship figures here. I wonder whether you want to talk about your 96 or your 4 for 49, which is more important. But I've just seen below here this 111 not out in Colombo.

Can I just say against Sri Lanka? What an innings to watch that was. Thank you. I mean, just stunning. I genuinely think sometimes we forget, because it's there in front of us live, just what we are witnessing. That was just something very special.

But from the England into the county creek, do you feel it refreshes you? Do you feel refreshed to be amongst those people you've just talked about? I saw there was this crazy warm-up game you were playing this morning as well, which I can't describe to anybody. Maybe you can have a go for me, I don't know.

But is there a feeling of, you know, post the winter? of being refreshed. I think whenever you, whether it's even just changing formats and having to think of the game slightly differently, sometimes it can be quite an elsey thing, especially if things aren't going your way

or you might be going through a little bit of a rough patch, being able to, you know, whether it's changing to T20 or changing to ODI cricket or back into test cricket, whichever it is, it can be a really helpful thing in just flicking a switch in you somewhere and getting yourself closer back to your best. And coming back and playing, like I say, for Yorkshire,

having the opportunity to be around these guys. And I obviously came through playing with and under Mags when he was captain and a senior player at Yorkshire. Come back and work with him again. It's been fantastic. And I really enjoy being around him and that set up. And like I say, it's just nice to give back to Yorkshire. That's where it started for me.

That gave me the opportunity to. and to get into first-class cricket and then go on from there and, you know, it's just good to be back play. I know you don't want to talk about this, and I won't bang on too much about this bit, but I was down at Taunton a couple of weeks ago. Conversations overheard of an evening

in, you know, some classy eating establishments, The Harvester and others, of people saying, oh, Joe Root, he came across, he gave us 10 minutes of his time or whatever, chatting there at Taunton or whatever. you're signing autographs down as you're coming off it isn't a given

Joe that that's done you may feel it it should be probably you do but you give so much to the kind of game to which those of us for whom it is the number one thing in all truth and fairness we'd so appreciate you do it because you think you should or you actually enjoy it as well along the way

meeting public in a way that's a little bit away from the glare of internationals I think more than anything I just remember what it was like going to games as a kid, whether that be international games or coming and watch in Yorkshire. If a player took five minutes of his time to sign something for me, it would make my day. So if I can give a little bit of that back to someone else, then it's no skin off mine as it's a nice, easy thing to do. And, you know, these guys follow you all around the country and support you and cheer.

you want and give you a lift so it's you know it's an easy thing to do so which do you want to talk about the 96 with the bat always the wicket always the way I mean how's Harry with his bowing by the way

what about there don't go there he's already started talking about how he was using the crease and exploiting a crack outside of it painful started sound like Dale Stain by the end of it

yeah so you can yeah leave that where it is I reckon okay for that that 4-49 as well these are big wins against Somerset who were on a roll at the time now you've got Surrey is Surrey

really important contributions in really enjoyable games I imagine to play in yeah definitely and like you say you won't I've had the last couple of years when I've come back and played

I've slightly disappointed that you know that the contributions that I've made have not led to anything you know Warwickshire last year was a sole game of play we lost that and the year before I think played four or five games. We drew most of them and might have lost one as well.

That was frustrating in my respects. You pride yourself on contributing to wins and how you can affect the game as best you can. So this year played in the three games to win two of them, probably against two of the teams you'd probably suspect to be right up there in the conversation at the end of the year is really pleasing. And, you know, played a small part in him, but even seeing the rest of the guys sort of come out of their shell, and guys like James Wharton down at Somerset play the innings that he did in the second and that was almost the difference really between the two teams and then this game see Johnny lead from the front and come back to form and Adam as well show his experience it's just great to see so yeah it's been good okay I'm not going to drag you into the old reconnect disconnect

with County Cricket but I am going to mention that in the context of this does feel like a really good seven weeks for people within the county game it does feel, and actually Anton McGrath was saying earlier, it feels as though there have been eyes and ears on these seven weeks and the six matches that have been played. It often happens post-ashes, whatever happens, or post-winter. Is there a good feel about it all you feel? You've been out there playing and no doubt talking with opponents and that sort of thing?

Yeah, I mean, I think whenever you start a summer and, you know, there's test matches around the corner, there's always opportunities for people to stake a claim or to be in a conversation or stir a conversation. And certainly this year people have taken those opportunities and those chances. And you look at the squad that's been selected. There's some very exciting young players that have their first or second experience have been involved in a test squad. Some guys have come back in to the squad as well, which is great for them. And yeah, we'll see how it unfolds.

I can imagine it's nice for young players when they see that carrot there of a potential, call up further down the line. It can be very much silly season as well these opening weeks, because if every player that had performed well in the championship really was considered by England, we'd have a team of 35 out there. But that's good, isn't it? Having names thrown in and been talked about, surely. You want people putting their hands up.

and you want competition for places and you want, you know, you want that to have strength in depth in many respects. And Division I bowling is, at times, if not often, you tell me, Division I bowling, how difficult is it to face it? It can be, yeah, especially some of the services you come up against. It can be very challenging. And it'll test you, it might test you in slightly different ways

to what test cricket might. But you've still got to find ways of, handling that and you might have different technical challenges in test cricket that you have to manage and have to ready yourself for away from county cricket that's fine but one thing you can practice is managing situations and managing pressure and finding ways of problem solving however that is and if you can do that that certainly stands you in very good stead when you move up to international cricket it's not too far around the quarter now first test new zealand any thought of about that. I mean a chance in front of the home support who no doubt you will have felt the pain as they did as to what happened at times during the winter to get back out there and show them some good cricket.

Yeah, I mean I think whenever you've had a tough series, the first thing you want to do is get back out there and play and try and write some wrongs and it's felt like a long time coming. So it'd be nice to obviously in New Zealand are very good team. They tall very well. They've got a lot of players that have either had success in England or have attributes that can exploit our condition. So we're going to have to play well But we are a very good team in our own conditions And you know It'd be really good to put a good foot forward At the start of the summer You know and show everyone what we're about again As a test team

Put smiles back on their faces As you have along with everybody else in the championship Over the last seven weeks Thank you very much Joe for your time Very appreciate you Thank you The TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 live Now let's speak to Liam Dawson

What a joy it's been to see Liam on the field for so many years He's decided to call it time on his red ball career at least And I began by asking him why now Yeah I've been thinking about for a while You know I had a lot of thoughts last year We obviously had a tough year last year We probably should have gone down Obviously, Yorkshire does a massive favour

So yeah I was a little bit undecided What I was going to do Obviously then decided to start the year this year and obviously I didn't get to the levels and the performances that I'd want to get to and obviously the team were in a great position either so yeah obviously I don't think we can win the championship this year so for me the only reason I was playing was to win the championship so that was gone after the first four or five games so yeah for me that was it was the time to walk away it must but I say it must be

is it a horrible feeling that that that that oncoming thinking now now is the time but go what if I've got it wrong the timing so to speak No, I think, well, listen, I don't know. I don't know if I've got it wrong. I've got to have to wait and see what happens. But no, you know, I've been thinking about for a while, you know, you're not sort of out there, you're not in the fight,

and Red Bull cricket's all about the fight. You've got to want to be out there. You've got to want to come back and your sort of third or four spell, you know, when you're 30-fifth over when it's tough. And I just found that the age of a man, I'm 36 now, play a hell of a lot of cricket. I don't want that side of it anymore.

I don't want to be sort of grafting and, you know, putting your body through that sort of stuff. So, yeah, for me, it's time to walk away. The group have still got nine games left to try and try and save the season. But, yeah, for me, I've gave it my own and I've got nothing left to give in this format of the game, unfortunately. Listen, I don't want to come across as a fan. But, I mean, you talk about that fight, and that is why so many of us love to see you on the cricket field, whether it be representing England in whatever format that is.

And obviously, your retirement is only from Red Bull Cricket. But you left nothing out of them. I mean, you work so. hard. You were a genuine fighter. Yeah, definitely. I've always worked hard. I think to continue playing, you've got to keep working hard. You've got to, as I said, want to work hard and put things right. And, you know, for me, I didn't score the runs.

I wanted to score. And, yeah, for me, I didn't want that hard work of trying to try and put things right at the stage of the career I'm at now. So, yeah, physically, it's obviously a tough format to play. I want to try and play for as long as I can in whiteball cricket. So hopefully that sort of helps me in the long run in the future of my career. but yeah it's obviously time is right to step away can you just outline how you you would hope that the next what year two three years

I don't know would play out do you have it in your mind because you know very well of course that things don't always go to plan you can't always be certain about things but in your own mind you have an idea no not at all obviously I'm going to play the 100 play the blast and hopefully do well in that and see where that leads to yeah I've got a lot of creek left in me

but listen take one game at time and see where we end up four tests 218 first class matches along the way there can you just share a few of the moments as you you know look back and go with me on this

because I know some people just don't like talking about their own careers and such always prefer to put team first and all that and you most definitely have done that with Hampshire down the years but just go with me on your your moments your standout moments of your Red Bull career I think they'll see the Somerset game

and I think when Carl Aber I've got, I think, 17 wickets in the game. I think we were 20 for five when I went in, and I managed to get 100 and put the team in a good position on a tough wicket, and then James Vince getting 100 second innings, and then Carl taking those 17 wickets in the game. That's probably my most memorable Hampshire game. So that's probably one of my favourite four-day games in Hampshire.

Internationally, the four test matches there, what's your own reflection on New and England? I was in an era where Moin Alley was an extremely good player in balance the team out in another era you know potentially I could have played a lot more but that's just that's no different for a lot of players so happy to have played all formats for England there's not many players that can say they've done that so proud to do that but yeah I'm obviously happy to have played all formats and as you've rightly said you know whether it be with the bowling but also the batting do you enjoy them both equally yeah definitely as it says it's all around you've got a

like card all the time and it's not an easy thing to do both but yeah i'd like to see myself the general rounder in red bull cricket over the years um but yeah i've enjoyed it i've had a great time i've played 218 games it's a hell of a lot of cricket but yeah something just had to give and from a from a hampshire point of view okay so by only one point you stayed up in it last year and this year has not been as a team also the start that that hampshire would have wanted but there have been seasons when you have been amongst those teams at the top, you know, perhaps within, you know, touching distance of winning the title. How much have enjoyed those times? And obviously James Vince was a really important part of all that as well, wasn't they? So just a little bit more on

that? Yeah, definitely. I mean, that period between 21 and 24, those four years where we were an exceptional team. We never quite go over the line. Obviously, sorry, we were dominated for that time, but we had an exceptional team. We had some great games, some great players, the brilliant bowling attack and that was probably my favorite time in Red Bull cricket in those years. It's obviously a shame to see where we are now. But yeah, those four years would be probably my most enjoyable as a Red Bull player at Hampshire. I genuinely was a little bit shocked when I read the story that you decided to pack it in and selfishly really disappointed. Richard Gibson's alongside me, Mail on Sunday correspondent. Do you anything just quickly to say to Liam?

Hi Liam. I'm just saying that I've spoken to a couple of years ago when you were out of the England team and I think you put all your focus into winning things with Hampshire because your stats were so good and you wanted to win trophies with Hampshire

rather than be wearing the fluorescent bib as a 12th man, the drinks carrier. But I guess one thing is that you would how satisfying was it to play into the test after that and how much I guess is this decision based on playing for England for the next two or three years

with future World Cups in mind? No, nothing to do with playing for England, not at all. It's just, obviously, I love that test match I played. This is purely from a domestic cricket point of view. I had nothing left to give in domestic cricket in Red Bull cricket anymore, and yeah, I want to play for long as I can, and I feel that our T20 team has got scoped to be really good, so hopefully I can put all my engine towards that.

Okay, well, Liam, I know to start off with, you want to do a bit of work this afternoon, you've got to get back out there again. Thank you very much. All the best, mate. Thank you. Liam Dorson there. But I am disappointed. He is the sort of character and player that when you are lucky and fortunate enough to follow country cricket day in, day out, you really do respond to an engage with because he gave it everything, didn't he? And he still will in White Paul, of course. You never know, he's always in the contest, isn't he? He's always doing something. He's got that kind of attitude on the field of, you know, over my dead body, which is real sort of country, old-school country cricket, isn't it? You have the characters like that in the game. game and I suppose he's our sort of modern version of that you know someone that won't let you pass won't give you an easy ride not for a ball not for an over not at all and I think that's why

he's so respected in the county game I think you know when you when you're up against Liam Dawson you know that either with bat or with ball like he just he was just talking about that game there the game he got 100 and carl Abbott took those 17 wickets you just know that until the stumps are drawn it ain't over yeah exactly and I I seem to remember watching on the... Old Trafford wasn't, I think, the test. And it all ended just a little bit ugly or whatever because India was batting on.

And my memory is, and I can't remember which bowlers, but Ben Stokes, the captain, wanted to give the ball to anybody to ball, but didn't want to give it to Liam because he wanted, I think, to make a point, really. And Liam, I could see, I wasn't going to raise the issue there, but he was getting really quite cross

because he wanted to give it his all right through to the end, no matter what the result was going to be, and that's the sort of player he is. Absolutely, yeah. I mean, I think that's, he fought so hard to get sort of back into recognition for England, having been so consistent with 50 wicket seasons and a thousand run seasons. And then, you know, to get that last chance was pretty significant in terms of, you know, persuading them that I'm here in counterc cricket and performing, which is, which is ironic really, because that's exactly what they've gone back to now, isn't it? Perform in domestic cricket and we'll look at you for England was, whereas actually, that was a bit of an outlier decision when they recall. Liam Dawson last year because they hadn't really gone and dipped back into county cricket form to select their test squads at that

point but as I say it was a bit of a precursor to what's happened this summer. I've asked you to join me today because we are just going to briefly look back on the first seven weeks, six matches for teams but seven weeks of the start of the county championship season and we might as well just carry on that point because that is definitely one of the talking points going into the season. It was about this so-called reconnect between Rob Key, Brennan McCullum and England post-ashes with county cricket. I asked the question of obviously of lots of directors of cricket and coaches,

and the answer to all the time for me was, yes, we hear what they're saying, let's just wait and see if it happens. Do you think there is any proof yet that it is anything other than words from England and from ECB that this reconnect is going to happen, or do you think it is happening? I think it's happening. They've had the first I mean the new county insight group was interesting to me that it was suggesting that above and beyond just the scouting system

they wanted to fall back on some trusted eyes and ears from the county game and they've got four directors of cricket there from different parts of the country and in different divisions to feed back on players. They've already had that first meeting a couple weeks ago in Derby in a golf hotel actually funnily enough just to prove that they're not for changing completely.

But they were at Bredsalt Priory in Derby, and they had that first meeting with Anthony McGrathes here, and, of course, Alan Richardson, Richard Dawson, and Mickey Arthur. They had that first meeting. So that was the sort of first feedback of who should we be looking at and just reaffirming really what they were already doing, I think, to a large extent. But the fact that it's there,

and there's that extra layer of kind of scrutiny, think people will welcome that. I think it's then been followed through with the first selection, the first squad selection, slightly larger squad, which gives them a bit of a chance to add a couple of names in there, but they have been faithful to what they said, and that is to reward performance. Look at Emilio Gay, for example.

He was certainly in the Lions squad over the winter, but he wasn't first in the queue, I'm pretty confident. He wasn't first in the queue when the season started, but 300 spoke volumes for the form he's in. and form is rewarded. Yeah, yeah. Well, we've got Mick Newell, director of cricket Nottinghamshire on again

because it was nice to chat with someone from the defending champions in Nottinghamshire at this particular first break, if you like, with the blast beginning on Friday. Mick, thank you very much for your time this afternoon. Overall, as defending champions, how do you think you're shaping up? Yeah, we've had a good block of six games.

Obviously, we'd like to win this game, and then we'd go three and three draws, which is a good position. We're sort of in a good mode of play. at the moment. We haven't lost the game since I think it was May last year, so there's certainly a confidence that we can keep a championship challenge together when we resume in three or four weeks' time. So we've enjoyed this first block of six. We've had some good performances.

They've had some pretty good batting pitches. And as I say, if we could win this afternoon and go three in three, we'd be very happy with that. What has stood out for you? I know this is difficult. You don't necessarily name some and forget others, but who've stood out for you in terms of your performance? I think with the back tier Clark's had an outstanding start to the season.

I think he's just under 700 runs, I think, somewhere around about that, which is a fantastic performance from a player who probably won't play for England, but, you know, he's still a very, very strong domestic player. We'd be delighted with the contributions of Ben Duckett and Josh Tong. Great to have them around, I think, for four games each, which has really helped the team, help the balance of the side, and Josh Tong, you know, bothering really quickly and giving county cricket something that it doesn't have very much.

often. So I'm really, really pleased with those three players in particular. And then obviously I think our overseas player, Fergus O'Neill, picked up a lot of wickets today. It picked up an injury, he missed a couple of games. But, you know, it just goes to show the value of a good overseas player for whom county cricket can still be a great experience. I mean, those that follow the numbers will not be surprised by Ben Slater. But the idea of Ben, who's going so well as well for you, it's not, I mean, it's got a sense. It's not necessarily working out so well for your skipper. They all, no doubt, hopefully time for him to get that right. But just the world about Ben Slater as well.

because he doesn't get mentioned a great deal, but go all these contributions. Absolutely, you know, his contribution in four-day cricket and in 50-over cricket has been very, very strong. It was strong at Derbyshire for a number of years before he came to us, and I think he's actually playing better in the last couple of years. He's in his early to mid-30s now, and I think as an opening batter, probably still got a number of years left in the game. But I think him and Hasid has given us an opening partnership on a part with sort of Bickle and Galle, and if I go back 20 years

and I think Todd and, sorry, Robinson and Broad if I go back before that, so a right-left-handed combo always goes well in county cricket on those two cities and an excellent job for us. I know your name publicly was linked with that national selector roles,

but if you don't mind, I still want to put the point to you or ask you whether you feel, and maybe on behalf of the players, your players, whether you feel there is a reconnect taking place? Well, I certainly think the selection of both of the, that line's team. Richard said there, a strong performance in

in county group will get you in. And I think he's then right about gay, gay as deserve that opportunity. He's based on what he's done in previous years. I think in our case, it's not, ultimately and Paulson White's selection for the lines is well we're rewarded.

The return of an Ollie Robinson type of bowler into the main squad, I think is, again, just reward for his performances and Sam Cuck could be equally unlucky as could Matt Fisher. So I think definitely I would agree that that's happened. of selection. And I would also agree about this county insight group. I think the three English

coaches that are on that group are all of an age where they are the future of coaching in this country, perhaps rather than the past. And I also think it's a good idea to have an overseas voice on that with Mickey Arthur. So I think that that is a productive step. And I said before, you know, Brendan's main job is to look after the England team. And I think those that work around Brendan, it's their role to connect with county cricket and make sure that him and and Stoaks or Harry Brookover's captain have got the best information about the best players available. Because from your point of view,

you needed players over the last couple years to be convinced that it was worth sticking with you, so to speak, in county cricket and with Nottinghamshire, and this is not just at Nottinghamshire elsewhere, it was worth there while doing it to advance their careers and not just everybody just putting the bags down

and dashing off left, right and centre, around the world. That was such an important. important message to get across to them, wasn't it? Yeah, look, I think County Cricket has been much maligned in recent years, as we all know, but I still think it's a fantastic vehicle for people

to make a career in the game. Ben Slater, you've just mentioned, never played for England, never will play for England. But it's had a great career playing county cricket, and we've got a number of players like that in our club at the moment. So I still think there's the opportunities to play all four matches. It's still the one that most

players want, winning the counter championship is still the trophy that most teams want to win more than anything else. And I think the franchise world is a great world, but only for a small number of players. And I don't think we should forget that. There isn't a rush to give up Red Bull cricket by the vast majority of cricketers in this country

because they enjoy the county lifestyle and they enjoy Red Bull cricket. When Richard Gibson came in here about 10, 15 minutes ago, he said, what are you going to ask me? And I never know, but I did say there is one question I'm going to ask you, Richard, which I'm going to finish off with you, Mick, if I may. And that's taking a look, even though all the results aren't in

from this final group of games of, you know, take a look at the top of the, or just take a look at the Division I table and tell me who's going to win out of that lot because, I mean, it's really bunching up in terms of points with this Yorkshire victory of Surrey as well, which has really taken a lot of people. Not by surprise.

Anthony McGrathie is sitting alongside me, but, I mean, it really has stood out as a massive result in the competition. I mean, obviously, you said, you know, you're pleased with your start of the season, but it's looking really tight, isn't it? Yeah, I mean, fair play to Mags will be sat there next to you. That's an incredible victory.

You know, I think we'd all love to, we all like beating Surrey, but, you know, Yorkshire have actually done that and done it by an inning. So fair play to them over these four days. I'm not quite sure of the current score at Somerset, but if they beat Sussex, they'll be right up there, and obviously we're right up there. So I think, you know, playing in these little blocks, we've obviously had six, we've got two in the middle and tune,

and I think the big test for all of us that we're probably already thinking about is the sixth that will come after the 100, and the MV-50 from middle, August and mid-September. So I certainly wouldn't want to stick my neck out and say who's going to win it. But I think it's looking like a really high-quality competition with lots of teams that are going to be in with a chance when we go into that block of six right at the back end. I must get to speak to Anthony as well here.

But Mick, I'm so grateful once again for your time. And obviously, well down to you in Nottinghamshire, because you've got your defence off to a really good strong start, haven't you? And thank you once again. Mick Newell, Director of Cricket, Nottinghamshire. I will go to Mags, but just briefly with you, Richard. Anything just further on to what Mick has just been talking about there? Because we covered quite a bit within there.

Well, there's a bit of everyone beating everyone else, isn't at the moment. Mick just mentioned Yorkshire's excellent win here against, sorry. And Yorkshire also beat Somerset, of course. So if they win again today, they'll be right back up there. So I think it just shows that everyone can beat everyone in the table. When you look at who is where in the current standings, I think, you know, look at Somerset at the moment, technically in eighth before the game finishes.

but they would zoom up the table. It'll be quite well-bunished, as Mick said, going into that two block of games in June. Well, everyone will... It kind of feels like an extension of this first block, really. And then, you know, later in the season, you have that sort of home straight of six matches, don't you? So I think, you know, it'll be at that stage,

wherever people are at the end of June will tell you who's going to be a chance of winning the title, I would think. Not that it would be decisive, but certainly you'd want to be in position. there. Richard Gibson, Mail on Sunday correspondaries with me. If you can stick around, that's great, I know he's keeping an eye on

if anybody may be talking downstairs as well, but let's say hello to Anthony McGraw here. You won't have heard McNeul say there on the programme as you came into the room. Everybody loves to beat Surrey because of their strengths. But where did that come from yesterday?

Congratulations. What a win? Yes. Contrasting fortunes from this time last Monday, down at Edgebast where we got well beaten and then yeah to finish this block off against Surrey is a difficult

game but it's a performance that's been coming really because it's been a really frustrating block for us given our optimism in preseason when we've been really good on certain days

and then on other days we've just crumbled and everyone's been scratching our heads really players and coaches about why it keeps keeps happening because there's no rhyme or reason for it really. But it's just really pleasing for everyone with all the hard work putting. We know we're capable of performances like that and I think from losing the toss on Friday morning to now we've pretty much dominated that game.

There were a period at 120 for 4 where it could have lost a couple more wickets but apart from that we've been superb and it's just the word consistency for us, you know, making ensure we stick to our standards and we just start up days where we have horrendous hours or two hours and that's costing us the two games we've lost so far. I thought you might have been talking about belief as well because you say I know you feel it like all directors of cricket and coaches will feel the results when you can't necessarily do too much about it because it's the players out there doing it but they must have held on to their belief even though you might have been a bit grumpy with them on the odd

occasion. Yeah, I'd say sometimes you get the feel of in practice or vibe around the place that things are tough, but we haven't really had that. Everyone's been quite chipper and up, and that's why it's been even more frustrating with the days we have had. And even when we came back this week from Edge of Boston

trained Wednesday, Thursday, everyone did have that belief that we could do something especially, particularly with, you know, Brookie and Rudy for the last game. playing his last game. So we've just had a few guys out of form who were due a performance and Johnny Besto, Adam Live's partnership on the first day. And then as a bowling unit, I think that's as good as we've been all year. Everyone who came on to bowl were relentless, really. And you don't often see Siri get bowled out for less than, well, just over 200 and under 200.

They're normally back big. So it's really, really pleasing to put a performance like that. Harry Brooke. You must have been enjoying that, like all Yorkshire supporters were. And Harry Brooke must have been enjoying as well at that bowling yesterday. I did say to him, I remember seeing Wazim Akram bowler spell here, Edinley once, and I said it were like Wazim Akram, you're swinging in and out. He wanted to open the bowling actually this morning because he said, you know, he was the most dangerous bowler, so it was great to see.

And I think it was just one of them spells, weren't it, where he got it swinging, the lights were on. and I think he enjoyed obviously the Jamie Smith wicket and I'm sure when they meet up at Loughbury's is going to be reminding him of that one. You've been looking at that table along over my shoulder as well. I mean, it does look a crazy table, doesn't it? Yeah, I mean, the great thing about, I think, Division 1

is we know that teams, anyone can beat anyone and we want a competitive league. I think what's been really pleasing in this first block of games is how many of the England players have played. and the interest in the county championship, it makes a competition stronger, but it puts more eyes on it. And I think, you know, we know it's given some people call county cricket

and the standard. I think it's a great competition and a high standard. And when we have a competitive league like it's shaping up to be, it's great for everyone, it's great for cricket, and hopefully it is throughout the rest of the season. You've been mentioned earlier on in the programme, of course, because Richard brought in and then Mick also referred to it, you know, the Insight Group,

but we spoke about it briefly when we spoke ahead of the Somerset game at Taunton. You're part of it all. You're part of this reconnection, aren't you? Which is, I think, as you said, you couldn't be certain whether it was something that was done deliberately or actually just happened to, if you like, come into being that they felt this disconnect, but it did exist. And you're all part.

It's down on you, Max. to put it all right? Yeah, I mean, look, as I said to you, I think at Tornan, it's brilliant to be asked and to be involved. And I think even if it's just conversations or ideas, you know, the three or four other coaches who were involved just adding, I guess, debate and options and young players coming through.

And as I said, young players who might not be seen. You know, someone like a Matt Revis today, we know that he's got that in his locker in terms of a bowling performance. but guys who are a bit higher up and don't see county cricket might not know that's in him. And there's lots of other examples. But I think, look, as a game,

we want English cricket to thrive, don't we, at international level and domestic level and grassroots. We all love the game. And I think the more we are connected, the healthy and stronger the game will be. Do you remember also a couple of weeks ago, and I was the crazy one here, I guess, just a little bit concerned about the previous weekend's results,

which had all been draws. I mean, gosh, what happened in Tons and just two or three days later and here as well, there have been some really good games of cricket being played. Yeah, I mean, I think the interview we did, it came after a week of heavy draws, didn't it, heavy first innings,

and the weather's been dry, and we thought, oh, it could be a bland next three weeks, but it's been absolutely the opposite of that. Been some incredible games up and down, the country in both divisions. Really exciting stuff. And that's what we want. And I think a lot of the games are going into

third and fourth day, which is great. It's not like the crazy games are going one or two days. They're finishing deep on day four. And that's what you want in terms of, you know, that test of four-day cricket. You know, the conditions change from day one to day four.

And it's, yeah, as I said, it's exciting to be part of, but also watching the games up and down the country. You know, there's a lot of good cricket being played. Really because we're talking on the back during the end of this round of matches, it's unfair to talk to someone about a former club. However, one of the dramatic results of the weekend

was Leicestershire being bowled out for 60, having scored something like 166 runs on the first session of that game there at Chumsford. And there they are. They're sitting around about the top Essex. You know Chris Silverwood, a good friend of yours as well, and you know so many of them still, still that many of them still playing there at Essex as well

for teams like Essex to make sure they're up there and fighting that says something doesn't about their spirit down there and their skills yeah without doubt I mean Sam Cooke's taking wickets again they missed out by England I mean you probably don't want to get drawn into that especially in your role now here but he's still doing it is Sam Cooke yeah I mean Essex are a good team I've obviously got a very soft spot for them and you know want them to do well of course but when they get on a role you know they're

top 11, 12 players are up there with the best. If they get runs on the board with the attack they've got, they're very, very dangerous, and you've seen that, you know, they can be out of a game. And from nowhere, they're winning in a session. A bit like I've been saying about us, we go the other way where Essex back to the wall, they do find some incredible results from nowhere.

So, yeah, they're, you know, they've been together for a while. Obviously they've got a lot of very, very good senior players, but they're adding the likes of Charlie Allison, Northane, Luke Benkenstein. So, yeah, you could name four or five, six, seven, eight teams in that division at the moment who are all pushing. And in this victory over Surrey, you talk about bringing the players on and wanting to see a certain group of players you know they've got skills. And here, of course, I'm talking about Georgia, a bit of Reversal. You might want to mention some more.

up against, you know, up against, sorry Spanagan, but again, sorry, I mean, you know, some of the best players to perform like they did here, that's going to do them the world of good, isn't it? Yeah, well, you mentioned the word belief, and I've rattled on about it, you know, throughout the first. It is, I think, once you go to a higher level, it is all about belief. You know, Joru and Harry have talked about it to the lads in the dressing room

about, you know, that mindset of you're going to beat your opposition and whatever ball you're facing, whatever batsman you're bowling at, it's about having that belief that you can do well against them. So, yeah, I think for us, it's a big, big statement, but it's about remembering that now and taking that into every game. Of course, you're not going to probably execute as well as we have done,

but you've got to find a way when you're not feeling at your best to try and still get the performances, because that's what the best individuals and that's what the best teams do. So I think that's the next step for us, Yeah, like you say, if a performance like that beating Siri by an innings doesn't give you that, then I'm not sure what would. From a result's point of view, one might think that momentum would be great to carry on in this competition,

but there is a break because the blast is now starting this coming week. But also, aside from the results, bodies might need a little bit of a break? Yeah, I think that's fair. I mean, most teams will. I think this is a really hard block the first six games. One we all look forward to because it's the start of the season. But I think the T20 comes at a good time now with a few niggles of George and George Hill

and Jack White have bowled a lot of overs so that'll come a welcome break now I think as a team we've been in either playing or training 25 days out of the last 27 which of course we all love but I think just changing up to a different format

now a little bit of a refresh and then two big games when we come back one at Scarborough and one at Grace Road so I'm sure by the time we get to mid-June, everyone will be refreshed and looking forward to championship cricket again. There are two teams within this that Division I want to talk about. I mean, Sussex, who knows what might happen against Somerset,

but that's three wins from the first five. They've done terrifically well there, but it's more going to want to take a look at. Now, you've seen them in the flesh, so to speak, and it's not easy when you're promoted into the first division, but gosh, they're putting up another good showing in Birmingham this week. Yeah, I mean, I think when teams come up, People kind of doubt can they do it in Division 2? Glamorgan, Division 1, sorry, Glamorgan haven't been in Division 1 for a long time.

I obviously know Richard Dawson and Ian Harvey very well. They were coaching there. And you mentioned that word belief. We played them from game one. They set as a good decoration on the last day, going for a win. And from there, they've carried on that really good form. Unbelievable win against Somerset, that chase. On top against Warwickshire, who knows what might be.

might happen this afternoon. But they've found a good balance, I think, as well. I really like their attack with Mason Crane. It gives them a bit of a difference to their overseeners. And they've managed to get runs as well, which is the key to everything. If you can get them first in his runs and get runs on the board with your attack. So, Glamorgan have been really, really impressive. And you mentioned Sussex, to start the season, I think, with 10 points, was it?

It was a deduction. And a lot of noise around how tough it were going to be. and people leaving and, you know, that could be going to Division 2 and what will that do for the dressing room? It's absolutely done the polar opposite. It's galvanised them. You can see by the spirit and they've had a brilliant start.

Back on that Glamorgan situation, of course, one of the most exciting, exhilarating stories to see an 18-year-old in Tom Norton come in on his first-class debut, take a hat-trick. I mean, he's a long way to go in his career, but what a lovely story. And they'll be particularly pleased because he's an Abigavenny lad.

They'll like that. And also, I just mentioned just very briefly, because you would be delighted to have got the better of Somerset at Taunton as well. But for me, one of the performers, one of the games I can remember certainly was their victory over Hampshire, where Louis Gregory, who was still a great before, he opened it up with his bowling on one afternoon down there at the Utiliter Bowl. Tom Abel steered them through, and Tom Abel.

What a performer, Tom Abel is as well. So some real standout performances along the way. Craig Overton, of course, there at Somerset. So they'll be there and challenge. If you don't mind, as we wrap up here now and behind the scenes, one of the big talking points and in front of us, subfielders, replacement fielders, rather, for injuries. We spoke briefly at Taunton. We were expecting some changes.

Are there meetings going to take place now? Do you know anything about what is perhaps going to happen ahead of the restart of the championship? I'm not sure. I think obviously emails have gone around. I think they want feedback how it's been going and how we think it's been going day to day on the ground. There's talk about a few tweaks. I mean, my thoughts on it, I thought it was a good introduction given what we've seen the past few years.

It probably just needs, you know, a little bit of rounding round the edges. I think there's a couple of grey areas on certain things. Would you expect it to become a two-day thing? Yeah, I think so. A two-day rule in the first two days. Having seen the chat around it before the season and then seen it play out, I think the first two days is probably fairer.

I think if you get into days three and four, yeah, it doesn't seem quite right when you see it in action. Probably the first two days is a fairer event. The illness thing is a difficult one. It's a grey area. We did have two players subbed out for illness, but I mean when I said ill,

it's not like a cold. they were food poisoning spare of some of the detail Yeah, it will do. So yeah, that's a difficult one obviously the life-changing events you know, the births and bereavements and stuff like that I think is definitely a thing we should have

because I mean for me the bringing the rule in you don't want to see a game of cricket after day one 11v 10 or 11v9 I remember a game back at the Oval for Essex where we had Jordan Cox with his appendix out Jamie Porter with a broken finger We had nine men and it's spoiled the game. Not an excuse, but we don't want to see that.

So I think it's events like that you want to see being fairer. I hope they don't scrap it simply because we've started the season with it. And I think the integrity of the competition then would, you know, it might not be fair for some teams who haven't had replacements, for instance. So I just think it needs a little bit of tweaking. And yeah, overall, I think it is a good thing. Yeah. I mean, what I've been reminded of is this is a trial, supposedly, which has been set in place by the ICC. It's been tried in different parts of the world, Australia, South Africa.

And perhaps there was an element of the game in this country looking at it, well, what can we do, which is a little bit different to see if we can help with that trial. Now, I think I'm right in saying life events is something that's not been trialed elsewhere. So that's a big tick for those of the ECB. It is probably just the fact you can be making the changes on the fourth morning. Not on the fourth morning. No, I think, yeah, I mean, talking to other players. Sorry, to interrupt, but maybe life events again, I might accept that. Yeah, probably I can on life events, but not on illness and, well, any other aspect.

Yeah, I mean, look, I think on things like rules and statistics and our game cricket, it's a traditional game and rules never really get changed unless they go through. But I think common sense-wise, now we've seen it play out in the first six weeks, I think you're right. I think the two-day thing would be fairer for everyone. And also the idea of putting the onus a little bit on, yeah, putting the onus on clubs and teams to play fair. Well, everybody wants to play fair,

but also everybody will be looking for that little percentage that means that they can get the better because that's why you're competitors. So they've got to be rules in place and boundaries in place, haven't they? Yeah, they have. But if the rules, rules, they're there to be adhered to. so if it is four days, then you can't blame people who are changing them out. So if you do change it to two, then everyone knows.

But while it is, well it is, if you've got someone who goes down with a hamstring on day four, then within the rules you can change them. So until that is changed, you can understand why teams are utilising it and using it. Anthony McGrath there. That's it for this episode of the Test Match Special podcast. Make sure you're subscribed so you never miss an episode. And make sure you're following at BBC Cricket on Instagram too for all the latest from TMS.

Check out strategic timeout on BBC Sports YouTube channel as well, featuring the likes of Mark Wood, Samit Bartel, David Milan, and Aussie franchise cricketer Chris Green, who's just got back to the UK in time to play a little championship cricket, but now ready for the T20 blast. Thanks for listening. We'll speak to you next time.