Test Match Special - County Cricket: ‘The situation is worsening at New Road’

Episode Date: May 22, 2024

Kevin Howells, Tymal Mills & Emily Windsor are joined by Worcestershire CEO Ashely Giles.They discuss the sad passing of Worcestershire spinner Josh Baker, at just the age of 20, and how the team will be commemorating Baker.Plus, Giles talks about the future of New Road, Worcestershire’s ground, as the flooding issues it faces will only get worse going forward, he says. He also looks at the effects not being able to access the pitch and the training pitches has had on the Worcestershire side.And, why is it so hard to get Tymal & Emily in one place at the same time?

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Hello and welcome to our latest test match special County Cricket podcast. This week it's a bit different again. We've got Emily Windsor and Amal Mills back with us, which is great news, but I'm out on the road, New Road, Worcester, where the county side Worcestershire have yet to win a match in the championship, but until this week, haven't yet played a game here at Worcester. The winter and spring floods led to a lot of hard work to get it right.

Only last weekend did the first game in the season take place here, Central Sparks in the Charlotte Edwards Cup. Our special guest joining me at the ground is former Ashes winning England International, and now chief executive officer of the club, Ashley Giles. This is the TMS County Championship podcast with Kevin Howes. Well, hello, Emily, Emily, it's been so long. Tell me you're there and tell me you're not in a team meeting. No, I'm here and I'm not moving today.

Thank you. Yeah, I'm with you. Two weeks since we last spoke, what have you been up to? Well, I know one thing you've been up to. You've been out there at the toss, captaincy. What was all that about? Yeah, that was a lot of pressure that, Kev. Unfortunately, George Adams, our captain's had a five strain,

so as vice-captain, you get the nod to go out there and lead the side. It was a bit of a frustrating one, actually, because we had them in a T-20, we had them 48 for eight, Kev, and we didn't win. Ah, ah. And then, of course, the big thing is you then have to, to face the media afterwards to explain what went wrong. I know, and I had to get drugs tested as well, so it wasn't a good post-match for me as captain,

but yeah, it was a great experience, but hopefully Georgia will be back soon. Okay, right. Well, it's nice to have you back on the pod with us. Can I just say at this point, we should be saying hello to Mal Mills, but he's yet to arrive, if anyone's listening and you think to yourself

that trying to sort out your life with teenagers is difficult. You try cricketers. Getting meals and wins are both free at the same time is nigh on impossible. And right now, coaches Paul Farbrace and Charlotte Edwards are way off my Christmas card list right now. Nothing personal. The question I have is, why are there so many team meetings? And why do they have to be called always at short notice? What do you talk about for so long, Emily?

You can have to let me off the one before was because our captive went down. So I had to be bombarded with captaincy information. but it could be anything I think their schedule like if it rained a little bit and then we then can't get on the nets all the schedule changes you know what cricket's like

when the weather's affects it so yeah well anyway it's nice to have you with us I can only apologise it's okay it's you doing your business is you doing your business listen it's a bit different for me this week because actually I'm out of the studio

where I normally am for a podcast and I've turned up here at New Road the home of Worcestershire County Cricket Club and I love coming here because as a native as a young lad I'm just a Shropshire lad so it's just down the road from where I grew up

so I love coming to this venue and I'm also delighted to say that with me is Ashley Giles Ash I mean your CV I'm afraid the podcast does not last long enough to go through your CV but if there's a man that knows pretty much from every angle of the game and you did

the studying when you're up there at Lancashire as well to sort of the business and sport and everything. So you're just the man to talk to, but I was expecting. The one thing you can't control there have any influence is the weather. And I wanted to arrive here this morning, blue skies, the sun shining. It's raining again. Well, firstly, welcome to New Road, Kev. We had beautiful weather two days ago, so it must be you.

It's never wet at New Road. You know that. I know, I know. But the grounds, listen, the fog, and we're talking here, it's 9 o'clock-ish, it's Wednesday morning. the rain has been falling for quite some time and the forecast for the rest of today and let's hope it's a little bit wrong is for you know pretty much persistent rain all day long no joking here does this ring alarm bells with you even one day a very heavy rain no one day is fine um just driving past the river now i mean we spent most of the winter driving past that river and it was almost a tipping point so one day we can deal with if there were three or four days of heavy rain particularly in North Wales, and that's where the water comes from, then we'd be more concerned. But an extraordinary job out here.

We're looking out on the ground now that the ground staff have done. We've got a brilliant team. And to be in this position now where we're welcoming back championship cricket again on Friday is a brilliant effort by everyone. And I know you'll say, what am I doing here today? I should have been here a week ago last Wednesday when volunteers turned up to help the final bit of the clean-up operation. How did that go? Yeah, it went really well. We're lucky. We've got some fantastic members.

In fact, we had members from other clubs volunteer to come and help us as well. So that shows how tight the cricket community is. The grounds looking great. Unfortunately, the hangover from the floods that we've had isn't over. The cost of lifting everything up, if you like, and moving it to Kittaminsster, the lost revenues that that entails, the general clean-up that eight full floods cost you. You know, it's the best part of 200 to 250,000 pounds that we're down this year already, and for a business our size, you know, that's really expensive.

What's the impact of that in terms of, players, I mean, production of staff, or is it that serious? Well, I mean, we'll have to look at that at the end of the summer, but we'd already reduced our playing budget by quarter of a million pounds for this year. You know, my role as Chief Executive here is to ensure the sustainability of, of course, the cricket, but also the club. And that's a difficult juggling act in my role and juggling cash flow. So the impact's strong, but we've got a great commercial team who are trying everything to pull in more money. But as we know and as we'll probably talk about, there are a number of issues linked to, the venue here at New Road

and the sustainability of cricket here a feasibility study etc etc but we'll probably come to that yes indeed we will but what we will first do is you know whilst we're reflecting clearly on the hardship caused by the flooding

to this venue it's all been placed into tragic and emotional context over the last few weeks with that shocking news in the passing of Worcestershire's 20 year old player Josh Baker Actually, before we talk to you on that, I'd like us all here to listen to an interview

that the West Indies International, Jason Holder, gave to the club, gave to Worcestershire. After he finished his short, early season time here with the club, just a couple of weeks ago. Jase, your time with Worcestershire is at an end. How has it been? It's been unbelievable, man. It's been a hell of an experience.

I think the boys have just been outstanding. I just said to them in the dress room that they've given me new love. a little bit of a rebirth into cricket and my love for cricket. It's been absolutely outstanding just coming and playing for Worcester. Yeah, it's been one of those things where you get everything you possibly want to achieve out of the stint. Just unfortunate we didn't win the game.

I was really looking forward to singing the team song, but I think each and every game has shown glimpses that this team has something special within them. So I look forward to some really special things going throughout this entire season. The boys are a hell of a bunch, man. I just can't say enough about them, you know. I enjoyed every single moment of them, and, you know, I'll definitely be back. On a personal level, what are some of your standout moments?

I think for me, it's just seeing the attitude at each and every individual. I've just been amazed at how tight, you know, one group can be. And everybody plays for the right reasons. Everybody plays for the team. You know, I don't think I could really single-up individual performances. But the one thing that's really stood out is just everybody's attitude. It's just one big family, everybody's behind one another. No man is left alone.

And it's just one of those atmospheres and environments that you just want to be in. You want to wake up every single morning, looking forward to going in and playing with these boys and being around these boys. And that's something that I haven't had for a very long time. And I really thank the entire Worcester show for having me. And, you know, hopefully I can definitely be back.

The fans have really loved having your hands. Some of them have been accompanying you for you to come there for a while. So has it been nice to interact with those guys? No. It's been awesome and the support that we've had at Kitty has been outstanding as well too. I'm just so sorry that I didn't get a chance to play at New Road, but I did get a chance to practice there on it and it felt just as good as everybody's explained it to me and hopefully again I can be back and actually play a game at New Road, you know, it being our home ground.

I do hope that something could be done and you know that we can have a little bit more home games at front in the season, you know we can probably solve the issue that we've got but you know more often than not you know everybody's just been in and around one of the another and that's just honestly been the most warm and welcoming feeling I've ever had playing any different team and yeah I just want to thank every single person here at Worcester and a little word on Josh someone you just were getting to know and you saw the tributes to him and the character he was around the team yeah it's just so sad I just happen to play a golf with him two days before the tragic passing he's just one vibrant

individual you know he's very cheek he's always in with a nice comment nice smile and he's a hell of an athlete. I think he was outstanding in the games I've seen him. He did a hell of a job for us in terms of his Spain bowling department, holding up and then, even contributing with the bat as well, and also in the field. It's just so sad to see him past, but I just want to send my love and condones to his family.

I met his parents as well, too, two lovely people. God knows what they're going through, but I just sent all my love, warm wishes, and I just hope that they can get through this tough time. No doubt the entire pair is here can be counted on, you know to support them and i think we've done an outstanding job of getting behind them i don't think there's anything that one or two individuals can do to to make things better but i think as a whole group of peers you know we can definitely come together and you know help um josh and his

parents through um this tough time nationally giles chief executive here at worcestershire your reaction just to those just a few minutes there with jason holder well well firstly what an exceptional man Jason Holder is and a brilliant ambassador for West Indies cricket and his family actually I mean he's extraordinary and we were very lucky to have him

even for a short time touching on Josh you know that there are no words really it's just incredibly tragic the loss felt by everyone here but particularly his teammates and the management

of someone so young everyone's just rallied around each other and I think that's one of the great strengths of Worcestershire cricket that I've seen over the last 10-11 months so they play for each other they're really tight as a group and at times of struggle

they're definitely there for each other and all the stuff we talked about before Kev what great perspective for all of us Paul and Lisa his mom and dad are actually coming in later today to see me but yeah you you know you don't want to you can't put yourself in in their in their shoes all we can do is be there for them they're they're close to this group as well they've been down to practice to see the

guys I know the guys have I spent a lot of time visiting them but Josh 20 years old. He would have been 21 last week. You had to pinch yourself sometimes to remember how young he was. And the thing about Josh for me, he was a really similar cricketer to the one I was. Six foot four-ish, maybe even taller than me. Left arm spinner, good control, caught in the cordon, really good pair of hands and batted about eight. And he'd played a lot of cricket. He'd was played 50-odd games across formats at 20 years old, so he had a very bright future ahead of him, and he'll be dearly missed, and it'll be tough.

It'll be great coming back to New Road on Friday, but I know that will be a tough day for the guys and not to have Josh with them. Emily, you know, from my perspective, it's about being a dad and thinking about this situation. Okay, but you're there as a cricketer. This thing, and I hope that people don't think this is too much of a cliche. It's all about cricket family,

but it's quite a strong bond, isn't it, Emily? Yeah, absolutely. I think firstly, it's absolutely devastating news and I can't imagine what his parents are going through, what the club's going through. But how people in this cricket family can rally about together and support one another, and that's from your rival teams to people, the other end of the country,

and to people overseas as well. And I think that interview from Jason Holder was so powerful. I think the words that he said in it, And I think as a club was to assure that you've got an international player of that pedigree, saying all those kinds of words, you must be holding that very highly, Ashley. Tamal is with us again to you, T, and welcome along. You know, we can all relate to hard times, difficult news. But that dressing room and that bond there is between players is something that myself

and the vast majority of people listening probably have no idea just how strong that can be. No, absolutely. And it obviously takes me back to when we lost Matt Hobson back in one of my first couple of seasons at the club. And yeah, it's something that kind of when you get that phone call, which I can't imagine how difficult that phone call is to make to players. You don't believe at first. And, you know, I remember exactly where I was when I received that call about Hobsie when he passed. And, you know, one of the first things we all did was get together as a group. And yeah, just kind of be there for each other. and talk it through and share memories and, you know, it's certainly something that, you know, it's hard to take, but certainly lives long and, you know, for a lot of people, it gives extra motivation and extra drive moving forward. So, yeah, it was obviously, it was horrible to hear that news a couple of weeks ago when, you know, it trickled out and, you know, we'll see thoughts with everybody at Worcester especially is family. Indeed. Now, Nottinghamshire, the team coming here on Friday, I respectfully say this, is nothing else, but there are a few players in that

Nottingshire team who will know Josh extremely well, and know him very well. It is going to be emotionally, as you say, a very big day Friday and over the weekend. Do you have things planned as such, or are you just letting the players do their thing and bond as we've just spoken of? We've got a few things planned. You know, every day we play this summer. We'll, you know, when the players turn around and Josh isn't there and there's a gap in our lineup. It's going to be incredibly tough for them.

I guess only time heals slightly. But you're right, yeah, there's a number of guys in that Knott's team who would have had close relationships with Josh and his family. And again, cricket in these circumstances completely secondary, but the guys, all of them know

they've got a job to go and do when they get out in the middle as well. and I think that's been really the thing that's been really impressive is the way they've directed almost their attention to that in memory of Josh, right, we're pulled together, we'll get on with it,

you know, somehow dust the cells down and crack on with the cricket. And that's one of the things Paul and Lisa Baker have said, you know, this was his happy place, the team was his happy place, and they want the team to get on and play their cricket. We were lucky we were in a bye week if there's any

anything comes out of this when we got the news and when Josh passed but the last couple of weeks have been tough and they'll continue to be there's no point in skirting round that but you know exactly what we'll do in terms of remembering Josh

more formally there's a few more conversations to have there but obviously we're going to be doing quite a bit okay actually thanks very much for that Stay with us. We'll continue our conversation with Ashley Giles and talk about the future struggles that new road here faces with the floods, likely to get worse as we go forward. This is the TMS County Championship podcast with Kevin Howes.

The Dakar Rally is the ultimate off-road challenge. Perfect for the ultimate defender. The high-performance defender, Octa, 626 horsepower twin turbo V8. engine and intelligent 6D dynamics air suspension. Learn more at landrover.ca. We've made it very clear that actually we're all thinking of all these other subjects we can still get very passionate about. There's this context to it all now, but one of them is this venue.

Yeah. Is this ground? And I imagine that the Tia and Emily listening just know what this venue means to so many people that have been to it. here at New Road, but here we are, it's raining, thankfully, hopefully it's just one day of rain here, but, and again, it's sort of, I think, been encapsulated over these last few weeks. Already, as you know, I'd been in touch you just a few days before Josh is passing to try and get you on because word had got out, even as far as where I can come in and all right, that

there was a lovely feeling about this club again, and just you raising, just raising the issue of possibly having to move away from this ground, obviously there would be people who would be upset by hearing that, but things must be pretty good for there not to be in this huge backlash reaction. But just explain to us where you are as a club at the moment in trying to come to terms with the flooding and getting cricket on here at New Road. Yeah, okay, let's work our way through all of that. The issues over the winter, we had eight full floods of the ground, which is unprecedented. There has been flooding in the past, and I hear people often say, well, it's all always happened. New roads always flooded. But the situation is worsening. In the last, well, if you look at the stats from 1899 of the 30 worst floods, 19 of them have been in the last 24 years. So that situation is worsening. We've spoken to the Environment Agency. They tell us that situation is worsening. I saw a stat recently that by 2050 we could have 59% more winter rainfall.

We are quite possibly the only professional sports club who faces an existential threat from climate change. I know others will suffer because of it, but we face a threat to business. So the board have made a statement on behalf of the club that we will look at all options, do a full feasibility study on what we could do to mitigate the flooding as best we possibly. possibly can. But as part of that study, also look at what a move, if we were forced to move, might look like. No one wants to. This is beautiful. Now, we're sitting here looking at a cathedral. The outfield right now looks fantastic. We're going to play cricket on Friday. But it's two months since the start of the season. We can't do that day in, day out. And

fundamentally, my job, I understand the emotion that goes with all. of this, absolutely, but my job has to be the sustainability, not just of New Road, but of Worcestershire County Crick Club, and I strongly believe that's in threat. And one thing, going back to your original point, Kev, is I've just tried to be honest and confront these situations, whether they be the finances, the venue, there is no point in trying to pull all over our members' eyes. they're not silly. They can see what's in front of them. And I like to lay everything on the table, then we can talk about it sensibly. Okay, I'm going to turn to Tumal and Emily to have a bit of a chat with Asht in a few moments of time. And after this question, because this sort of leads

us into, guys, these are massive subjects. But where Worcestershire stand in terms of of the finance? And, you know, all the talk there is at the moment of the potential selling of the hundred and some of that and the money and the dividends that might bring you. And, you know, at the moment, where do you stand as a club? Are you happy with the talk there is of, because you're a non-host venue, obviously. Yeah. I'm hearing the non-host venues are not happy. There were more studies.

There were more information being passed to them. Where, as a club yourselves, do you stand on what is going on in terms of the 100? Well, look, on the finances first, I think we stand in what is what we could call a precarious position. but we wouldn't be alone around the country in that. And we all have different pressures and worries. And as would the host venues. They're bigger clubs, but they might have bigger problems. In my view, and I think in the club's view,

we would support bringing investment into the 100. I think, and we think that's our best vehicle at the moment to bring new money into the game. The 100 has done a huge amount for cricket, and particularly the women's game. You know, we've seen the advances made there. It's a really good competition. Now, what that looks like, you know, we're talking about the host venues, the non-hosts.

No one's fallen out. But of course, when there's money at play, we, A, have a responsibility to our membership to do, if we're going to do a deal, do the best possible deal. But, of course, as I say, when there's money at stake, everyone wants a bit more. You seem to be under a time pressure to say to the ECB, go ahead, because they want everybody to see the competition this year, you know, I say everybody, potential investors. So is that a bit of an issue? And do you feel you're being rushed into accepting a figure?

No, I don't feel being rushed into it. I think there is some time pressure. It doesn't mean you can bypass important conversations, whether that be money or governance or the future of the competition, et cetera. but I think it's in all of our interests to do a deal and do a good deal for the game that brings new monies to the game that raises the profile of the 100

and makes it one of the top two or three competitions globally in franchise cricket. Now that's not just about the 100 or short form but this again going back to the sustainability point is about making the whole game sustainable in the future and again my job is to ensure the sustainability of Worcestershire Canter Creek Club. So whilst I say I have a duty to make sure we do the best deal by the club,

actually in some circumstances I've got a duty to make sure we do a deal. Right. Because right now that financial situation is precarious. The Jason Holder interview, by the way, which we play just a section, it is available on Worcestershire's YouTube channel and their social media platforms, Luke Summers, with the questions. They're really nice interview as well. So you can see that any other whole thing by Worcestershire County Cricket Club,

just to go about it. Okay, Tamal, you've got to get off in a few minutes. Another of those, I'm in team meetings. But anyway, I tell you what, a Farbrace and Charlotte, they're going to be part of our WhatsApp group from now on, okay, so they can see when I'm recording. But anyway, let's crack on. Yeah, hi, John. I can speak to you, mate. Hey, just from a player's point of view,

just regarding the ground and kind of the winter and preseason, what's it been like for the players? I'm imagining it's been pretty difficult. I'm just trying to put myself in that situation, and not being able to train at your main base. I haven't played at Kidaminster, but I think it's fair to say it's not quite the facility that New Road is. What's actually been like kind of day-to-day and preparations for the players and for the staff?

Yeah, good question. On one side, obviously, there's the finances to worry about, which have been difficult to juggle, and it's cost a lot to move everything to Kiddy. Kiddy have been brilliant, actually. That partnerships worked really well for us, a really good pitch. We have a huge amount of compliments. For the players, I think sometimes

you players get a bad rap about how you act and what you do, but, you know, our guys have been fantastic. They've just got on with it. I mean, some of them, some of they've been here a long time, and they do face this, the flood issue regularly, but they're pretty resilient, and they just, they just crack on. There's not a lot of whinge. we're very lucky with a group my role is really broad

here I'm CEO but I carry some director of cricket responsibilities brilliantly supported by Alan Richardson, the head coach and his team but cricket's almost been the least of my worries with everything else going on and that's largely credit to

say the players and the management team who just get on with it we know Division 1 is going to be tough this year we always knew that we don't have the resource of some of the bigger clubs but they're fighting they're playing some good cricket and we've had the upper hand in a few of the matches so we'll continue to try that

I just wanted to touch on Ashley you were mentioning a lot about the sustainability of the club and say you get a new influx of money from the 100 whatever that looks like is there anything key that you sort of already have got plans in place of where you can make the biggest difference probably as quickly as

possible? Well, look, the danger with any money coming into any game, and we've seen some of it in rugby, is that money can get spent and wasted pretty quickly. So, again, my role, whatever that, if it happens, whatever that sum of money would be, is to ensure that we use that to best make sure that the club is sustainable in the future. Now, that will either be doing something with the venue here because parts of it quite frankly are falling down even where we are kev is there's not a lot changed in this room since i've been for many minutes i'm not complaining i love it but you're right it's not it's not it's well it's seen its best years um or whether that involved you know a different venue in the future i think what we we as a game don't want to get

sucked into is that any influx of money suddenly we we go to some sort of arms race for players that isn't what we should be doing because that money will get wasted very quickly that's not to say players should be paid shouldn't be paid what they're worth and salaries may increase but um going back to my my my point earlier we're never going to compete with surrey in terms of resource you know they're a 50 million pound turnover business we're a six and a half million uh and i think we just have to be careful again and how that's communicated to our members in when we say we can compete with the big guys.

Well, look, if we punch above our weight and we have our day, then absolutely. And we can play exciting whiteball cricket. Brilliant. But, you know, wasting money on just trying to compete with the big guys. When that gap is, the gap between the haves and have-nots has widened and it will continue to widen. And to try and make that gap smaller now would be really dangerous.

I'm a Norwich City fan, for better or for us. And I know one thing that Norwich, obviously, when they keep getting promoted and relegated and they were lamented for maybe not spending the money on players, but what they did, as Jailo said, was they used that money to invest in the training ground, the academy, the gym, you know, redo that all the things that last longer than a, you know, a two, three-year playing contract is a more holistic view. So that, I guess, rings true to me.

The only last question I had for you, Jano, was I read some interviews from you in kind of previous where you spoke about the blast and obviously we all know how important that is for all counties financially and how the ground and you obviously kind of you needed it to be ready for the start of the blast and things kind of on track and ready for end of next week yeah so our first home game is a week Friday against Lanks here which yeah we're excited about now for a while we were absolutely you know hit this state of trepidation because if we started to lose blast games at home, then that is, you know, we're in really big trouble,

almost in bailout territory, and that's how important the blast is to some of the smaller clubs, the smaller venues. So, yeah, we're looking forward to that, and it's a great competition. I talked about the 100. That is probably, you know, becoming our premier whiteball competition,

but the blast is great. We've got some great cricketers. We've got a brilliant pipeline of pathway of players, both in the men's and women's game and the blast demonstrates that. I don't want it to sound cliche coming for me, Ashley, but obviously the Tier 1

was to should put in a bid for but are you hoping to get a Tier 2 team and do you still see sort of the women's game in port and sort of in your region to grow talent as you said earlier the game's progressing so quickly. Yeah, absolutely. Us not bidding

for Tier 1 was pure realism and each club is free to do as they please but us and Derby towed that line and I think it was the right line we simply don't have the resource whether that be financial or from a infrastructure point of view to cope with Tier 1

whether that can happen in the future who knows but Tier 2 is definitely on our radar we're definitely supportive of the women's game as so much as this year is the first year we've had independent sponsorship and funding for our women's rapids team I feel like we've disrespected that team in the past we've perhaps sort of wheeled them out when it's time for the for the photo at the start of the year and and then ignored them and we're trying to do more than that this year and that will be you know small wins at first but certainly we'll be in for tier two and we've just had that tender process released to us and I've got a meeting later this morning actually to go through that and make sure that we begin to put together a proper bid so that we can get a team here okay do you have to

go please thank you tea does have to go clearly Ashley hasn't called himself a team meeting which is really quite good of him the next day look and I'm sure you've actually got something to say on this and So, I want to go to you, Tamal, first. Since we've last spoken, and obviously we had Rob Key on the podcast last week, the big, and I think this, I'm still quite shocked by this, actually. I'm not too sure if there are other people as shocked as I am by Jimmy Anderson, just seemingly in the space of 48 hours, he's no longer, obviously he's still got another game to play, but he's retiring from international cricket.

Your thoughts on that, T, and then I've got to ask you straight away immediately to bring in some updates on a couple of your Sussex, mates in Olly Robinson, who did so well last weekend, but also in Joffra. So much expectation upon Joffre, so a lot for you to get in before your team meeting. So just cover a few subjects for us there. Yeah, look, I'll start with Sussex because the boys are obviously, they're flying, had a brilliant win. I was actually up in Yorkshire, seeing my best mate, and then I had to do some stuff

with 100, and whilst they bowled out, Yorkshire down here, it was a brilliant win, obviously puts us clear pretty decently of third place now, top of the table, which is, which is great. Ollie has been quite vocal about how it's a big summer for him, and, you know, those are the spells that are certainly going to help him get back to and continue to be where he wants to. Yeah, I'm sure everybody saw the clips of Jop playing in the second team against some poor Kent, some lads try and, you know, try it on trial for Kent, and Joph comes in and gives them a fair few sniffs, spoke to a few of the boys who were playing second team with him, you know, stood at Slip, and they said it, you know, it was genuinely, it was very, very fast. So that's very exciting, and it's great to see us all clips

doing the round yesterday of him with the England team up ahead of the T20 series against Pakistan. So, yeah, everything's in a really good spot down here at Sussex and for Jop as well, fingers crossed. You know, this is the start of his kind of next chapter of his career. He's obviously had a very terrible few years and finger. crossed things from here are on the up and up. In regards to Jimmy,

yeah, it's obviously came out of the blue a little bit. I'm sure everybody was expecting at some point. I think he's even said himself that obviously people have been talking about it for the last five, six years that, you know, this might be his last year, might be his last year. But, yeah, I think it's great that he's going to get, I'm sure, what will be a special day

at Lords against the West Indies. Just got to pray that the weather, weather obviously plays ball and he's able to, you know, hopefully get a finish akin to what Brody got for Brody's last game. That was obviously, I don't know if you can quite beat that. But yeah, it's obviously been a special career, hasn't it? With Jimmy, I've worked a little bit with him over the last couple of seasons doing the BBC stuff. So I'm sure he'll continue doing that and he'll be successful at that. But, yeah, big, big shoes

to field to whoever tries to step up and follow him. 929, you say you needed to be away. It's 929. I've done my bit for you, T. Cheers, guys. That's how you know the heart out. Cheers, everybody. Ash, Jimmy, I mean, you will have come across him all sorts. I mean, in the England role you have, but also at Lancashire as well. I played in his test debut. Wow.

So, yeah, and that was 2003. And so played with him for a couple of years after that. And I've been retired for 17 years, so. I feel quite bad about his longevity. his longevity is extraordinary yeah um i mean everything's been said about him as the as the cricketer but to have that sort of physical resilience to to play and mental resilience to play that long is extraordinary in itself um and actually we should remember the bowler he was when he first came on the scene as well he's a he's a he's a very different bowler now but that that sort of early

90s, mid-90s at times bowler he could be early on in his career who swung it both ways and over time I think the beauty of the greats is they adapt over those years to enable them to continue to have success and get better and better

and a huge amount of respect and time for Jimmy, you know, it could be a miserable so-and-so at times particularly when you're on the management side but I've always had a good relationship with him and a huge amount of respect for him. Actually, you don't have to join in with this but Emily is quite keen and I am as well

because as we speak this Wednesday morning we're still getting our heads around the awarding now of Yorkshire at a tier one women's team not in two years time which in itself was a bit of a surprise a few weeks ago but now in one year's, well say one year's time one year after the competition

starts next year. I mean Yorkshire could be thrilled by that. At Durham they won't be thrilled by that. I mean first they have to try and talk contracts with players who might just won a couple of years if they fancy going back to Yorkshire. Now I reckon players will be coming up to them and saying Any chance we could just have a one-year contract if you want to carry on living in Yorkshire?

And if I'm Durham, I'm thinking to myself, no way, no way. I mean, look, I know everybody wants us to be really positive. We really must be positive. Some great things happening in the women's game. But from a distance, this looks like a bit of a mess. Yeah, Kevin, it came as shocking news to all of us yesterday, to be honest, and that's coaches and players. And everyone that I spoke to were just really confused by him. to be honest because

I just haven't managed to chat yet to any of the Northern Diamond girls but they're in a bit of a weird situation because say they do want to stay at Yorkshire they don't want to then not play professional cricket and play tier two for a year but then Durham are not going to want to offer

them a one year deal or other clubs surrounding it as well because let's be honest it's an open market I just don't really get it to be honest either for me either award it now let them have it now, don't have nine teams, so then it's just, everyone's at this clear state, slate, better for players, better for coaches as well, what's happening to the current

diamonds coaches? Are they going to be a tier two coach and to tier one next year and Durham won't be able to recruit the likes of Danny Hazel, who has been so successful? I think Danny Hazel is probably quite already quite a part of what they're trying to set up, Durham. Ash? Yeah, I think it's most difficult for the players, and I think that's what would be frustrating. There will be some of those players who've, as I think you touched on, they've bought

homes and they're settled, and you're almost going, well, it's hard luck. You have to pick up and go somewhere else. But is this not the reality, not be careful what you wish for, but is this not the reality now of coming to terms with professional? Yeah, it is. I just there's an element in me that says well just get on with it now

let just bring Yorkshire into the system now that makes it tougher for Durham because they want to be competitive and they're from a starting from a start where they haven't you know they need to get these players in yeah and all of this the tier one stuff

is absolutely the right direction make no doubt about that it just feels like some of it might have happened a bit too quickly it's all happened in a bit of a rush including the pool of players the pool of talent Emily what do you think to that I mean presumably they were going to go for a certain number of teams

because they thought that's where we're at the moment in terms of the talent pool and hopefully quite quickly and it's likely will expand that that quickly but there's the talent pool issue as well isn't there yeah there is and I also want to reiterate that at the moment we haven't even got full squads of professional cricketers so there's 10 per

region which is expected to next year all of the tier one teams will have 15 so that's I'm not going to do the maps on there to embarrass myself but that's already more cricketers then obviously another team is 15 more but

I think the talents there kev I think we're seeing I'm seeing more more young players coming through I think the vipers well were very lucky with the pathways that we had so but it's just I don't understand like Durham are going to have a tough job I think recruiting players

especially if they're not recruiting the bulk of the diamonds team or if they do just for one year it just seems like it's going to be very tough for Durham and you talk about players living well I don't want to up a move to Durham for one year to then come back to Yorkshire like that's also logistically a challenge as well isn't it it's just come out of the blue if I'm honest

like we've seen Yorkshire going back and saying they want one now or I think they said about wanting to fund one from the first year. But, yeah, 2026 is bizarre. It is. I wonder if Yorkshire might be tempted to, I would say, tempted if they're able to, to sign players up and then possibly say you can go out on loan for a year if you want to. But again, who's going to take a player for just a year?

And the other thing is, is this going to encourage some of these teams to say, we want more international players, more overseas players coming in to make us competitive as well, which I guess that's good in terms of, making sure you've got some of the best players available but that's not really the point of trying to encourage professional women's cricket is it

yeah well I think for me it almost look at if I were Durham you look at it from an opportunity point of view that there is as somebody said there is more depth out there in players so so start from base you're better off doing that than signing players for one year get a year ahead start from the bottom and work your way up

because we're seeing the acceleration in the development of that women's talent and they can start forming their own group and their own team that'll be tough because there'll be tough results but it's better than just sort of sort of piecemeal one year on one year off sort of thing okay Emily Hampshire a win the place must be a buzzing

a little happier in the championship ahead of this next round yeah certainly is just the matter of sorry by the way you've got sorry next just breaking that point Surrey at home as well on a pitch that they'll probably be batting for four days, won't they, sorry? They might score the highest ever score.

No, I think, look, that's a great win to get on the board, but I think they're not in a position they'd like to have been at the start, but the only way is up, I guess. But it wasn't an easy win either, was it, when they were five down and chasing those runs, thankfully James Fuller and Fletcher Middons, saw them home, but a win is points on the board, Kev. Yeah, I mean, it was a gripping round of a match. matches last week. It really was

terrific stuff. And it's a lovely seen Nathan Lanark against Ben Stokes and all as we did in Blackball and St. Lancash needed a win. They got a win there as well. It's no good people like me turning up. You know, all misty eye because I'm that packed down here in this part of the world where I come from and saying, good old Worcester, you know, and let's hope they do well

and let's hope they stay up. You don't want to be patronised, but you still need a win. Yeah, absolutely. Well, staying up is the aim. I think we're the most promoted side since two divisions came in but clearly then the most relegated

and so staying up is the main aim that may seem like a small target but again when you look at the difference of resource and we've just come from the Oval you look at the resource they have in terms of player depth and quality

over a long season they've got a lot more to call upon at any given time and after injuries etc. So it is a tough challenge for us but if we continue to play the way we have we've we've got a chance I think we're seven points off

of fourth and we're in eighth place so it's very very tight one win would do us the world are good and knots here next for you and it's a big one it's a big one because Josh will be you know forefront of everyone's minds

and rightly so but also it's we've had the central sparks here which is good getting that game of last weekend but the first championship match as well here for this summer so we're very much looking forward to that and thank you lovely to speak and meet up again actually thanks to Emily and

to Tamal well don't forget every ball of every game available on the BBC Sport website and app plus that brilliant live tech service as well over the weekend and into June as well with the T20 you can follow all those matches on the website we won't be back with a podcast next week

we will be back later next month and throughout the summer but plenty of podcasts available from TMS, snowballs and tail enders in the meantime. But for now, from here at New Road at Worcester, cheerio. This is the TMS County Championship podcast with Kevin Howes.