Test Match Special - Cricket reacts to report of “widespread discrimination”

Episode Date: June 28, 2023

Jonathan Agnew is joined by Isa Guha, the Daily Mirror’s cricket correspondent Dean Wilson & BBC Sport Editor Dan Roan to discuss the ICEC report suggesting “widespread discrimination” in cricket.We also hear from Cindy Butts, the author of the Independent Commission for Equity in Cricket report, the Chair of the ECB Richard Thompson, and England Men’s test captain Ben Stokes.

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BBC Sounds, music, radio, podcasts. The TMS Podcasts on BBC Sounds. English cricket is institutionally and structurally racist, classist and sexist. According to a much publicised report, the Independent Commission for Equity in cricket delivered its damning verdict on the game in this country after a two-year investigation into the game. In a moment, we're going to speak to Isha Gura. and to Dean Wilson. But first, our sports editor, Dan Rowan is here,

and it's nice to see you, Dan. How you do? Well, remind us why this report was commissioned in the first place. Well, the ECB decided to set up the independent commission for equity in cricket back in late 2020, Jonathan, in the wake of global movements, such as Black Lives Matter and Me Too. It was part of an attempt, I think,

to make cricket more representative and to address allegations of discrimination. And just weeks before this report was commissioned, the former Yorkshire spinner Azim Rafiq first made his allegations of racist abuse at the club. Those claims obviously then developed into a full-scale scandal, of course, and the Yorkshire saga undoubtedly spurred on,

I think many others in the game to give evidence with more than 4,000 people responding to an online survey, other people spoke in interviews and gave written evidence. It was meant to be published this report several months ago, but finally, this 317-page document has been released. Right, so what are the main findings? Well, it's called Holding Up a Mirror to Cricket, this report, Jonathan, and the reflection it forces English cricket to confront is a tough one.

I mean, it found this report that racism is entrenched in the game, that women routinely experienced sexism, that little or no action has been taken to address class barriers, and that the sport was, in its words, elitist and exclusionary. 50% of respondents said that that experienced discrimination in the game, although that figure was much higher among certain minority groups. It found that women were treated as subordinate, that there was scarce provision of cricket in state schools, a heavy drinking culture, was referred to, which the report said excluded many people and that the ECB had failed to support black cricket. There are 44 recommendations, among them equal pay between men and women players,

the scrapping of the annual Eton against Harrow Schools match here at Lords, and a new independent regulatory body separate from the ECB. Now Cindy Butts was the chair of this commission and she gave me some examples of the evidence that they received and a warning that some listeners may find some of what she says upsetting. We had over two and a half years of listening. looking at the cricket. We've had unprecedented access, unfettered access, and our findings are unequivocal. Racism, sexism, class-based discrimination and elitism are widespread and deep-rooted throughout the game. We conducted a survey of which over 4,000 people responded. One in two, that's 50% of people told us that they experience both

racism, sexism and class-based discrimination. And their evidence is clear and it's stark. You'll see, once reading the report, that we have been unflinching in the representation of what we heard. So we heard some really quite damning and shocking evidence from individuals. We heard of women being constantly stereotyped,

demeaned, facing predatory behavior. We heard from women. who are having to walk into scoreboxes and face signs that say no bras allowed. This is 2023, not 1923. What we heard from black and Asian respondents to our survey was also shocking. Over and over again, in their thousands, they talked to us about being overlooked, about having their experiences and their talents ignored, being deselected. And I'm not talking about individuals who are disgruntled at having and bitter at having not made it in cricket.

These are people who are turned up with the evidence and said, despite working twice as hard, we are being deselected. Routine use of the P word. Young girl, only 13 on the talent pathway, being called the N word and being told to go back home by grown men. I mean, the incidents were absolutely awful. We heard from a former Muslim player who had to endure the indignity of his teammates laughing and joking about one of the players using the prayer mat to clean up after sex.

I mean, the stories were absolutely horrific and it goes to show that the culture in cricket is rotten. What does the ECB need to do? Well, look, the first thing it needs to do is reflect long and hard on what we say in the report. We know that it's been shocking for them to read. It will be shocking for the entirety of cricket to read. But what we're asking for is them to take an honest reflection, to look at what we say, take it in. Do not have a knee-jerk response to what we say, but actually accept the realities of people's experience.

experience. And I think I need to really make this clear to cricket and to everybody else who is listening. This isn't just a case of interpersonal discrimination. This is structural in its nature as well. The way in which the talent pathway is inextricably linked to private schools and the way that disadvantages people, pupils in state schools, whether they're black, whether they're white, whether they're from accessing cricket and having a fair chance to progress in cricket. They are all issues that need to be addressed and to be taken seriously. Does the ECB need to apologise? It does, and indeed that is our first recommendation, that the ECB apologises for its role and for that of the game that it governs

and accepts that racism, sexism and class-based discrimination exists. It needs to apologise for its history. for its historic neglect of women and girls cricket and the way in which it has allowed black cricket to die and it must commit to reviving black cricket. So that's our fundamental overarching recommendation. And it's only through accepting the realities that I think that the game can really move forward.

How much confidence do you have in the governing body to tackle the problems that your report has highlighted? Well, look, I mean, You know, the ECB has a new board. It has new people at its executive level. I'm confident from the things that I've heard from Richard Thompson, the chair, that he accepts what our report finds. He accepts the starkness of that and the need for change.

But the proof of the pudding will be in demonstrable change. And it's for the leaders in cricket to now move forward, take this ahead, you know, in consultation and in partnership with everybody else in cricket. How big a moment of reckoning is this for cricket here? And what's at stake if change doesn't happen? I think it's huge. I think it's a watershed moment for cricket. I really do. I think our report and the evidence that we identify is unequivocal. I think if the sport doesn't accept what is going on within cricket, if it continues to think that,

because some elements, I'm afraid, still do, that this is, you know, isolated, you know, pockets of discrimination or they think it's just banter, then it's time for them to wake up because the reality is far from that. What's your personal emotion towards this, Cindy? We've heard an awful lot in the last year or two about discrimination in the game,

and I think particularly about Yorkshire cricket, of course, in the scandal that erupted there. But I sense that even you were shocked by what you've discovered, and you sound angry about it too. Well, I'm certainly shocked. I mean, I've been around the block, and I expected there to be problems. That's why we were set up,

because there are problems already existing within cricket. I didn't expect to see such the extent and the depth and the routine nature in which discrimination exists. Neither did I expect to see such the relationship between private schools and the talent pathway and the way in which that discriminates youngsters from state schools. I did not expect that. We carried out quite unique primary research and we mapped the relationship between private schools and counties and I didn't expect to see that relationship there or indeed the way in which it really does

disadvantage those from poorer backgrounds. And that's why we're calling for a really quite radical change to the talent pathway. It needs to become free of direct costs. It needs to be more meritocratic and it needs to be more transparent. Do you think that cricket here merely reflects society and trends beyond the game? Or is there something specific, something peculiar about cricket that means that these problems are particularly the case there? I think in a sense it does mirror some issues that exist within society. And of course, we've seen from very recently, you know, issues highlighted in terms of the Metropolitan Police Service, the London Fire Brigade, the CBI, you know, we've seen across a variety of different industries that there are serious problems. So I think that that is true.

However, cricket has the responsibility to sort out cricket. That's what matters. In terms of whether there is something unique, I mean, one of the things that we've done that is quite unique for a report of this kind is to actually look at the history of cricket. And one of the things that we have is a chapter detailing the historical issues that relate to women,

that relate to class, and we're asking cricket to really engage with its history rather than see it as something that they draw a line under because I think in part it explains why there are some of the issues that we currently find. Yeah, I was struck by that phrase you use that cricket's relationship with its past stunts its progress. I thought that was quite compelling and it's something which I think Stephen Fry has referred to in the past as well. It's linked with empire and colonialism. Cindy, is English cricket institutionally racist?

We've taken a game by my approach and we have concluded that it is. And it's not just institutionally racist. We say that it's institutionally and structurally sexist and has class-based discrimination. We have thought long and hard about using that term, but we believe it's a term that applies when you look at the evidence that exists. We don't think it's a term that is misunderstood.

In fact, there was an Ipsis Moripole that was done in 2021, which showed that 7 out of 10 members of the public recognise the phrase and understand what it means. At its simplest, it means a collective failure, and this is the Macpherson definition, a collective failure to provide a professional and appropriate service to people based on their identity. That's not difficult to understand. Do you, one of the recommendations, let me talk about the gender discrimination for a while, if I may, one of the recommendations, you want to recommendations you want to see parity equality when it comes to terms and conditions

and pay between men's and women's cricket there will be some who say let's look at audiences both on TV and indeed at the grounds far smaller than the men's game attract when it comes to international cricket in particular why should there be parity and pay it's a familiar argument you'll have heard it discussed in other sports as well what would be your response to that well I think there's been a historic neglect and lack of investment in women's pay. And the fact that the governing body and cricket more generally haven't resourced women's cricket is why it is where it is at the moment. I think that if you build it,

people will come. And the ashes demonstrates that. You know, there are increasing numbers of ticket sales, people interested in women's cricket. And I think that there is a need. for cricket to level up and actually support women's cricket. And I think that that will bring positive benefits to the game. And statistically, they'll be just taking views this morning, reading around it and listening to people. Some have expressed a view that 4,000, you know, when you measure it against the sheer number of people who play the game throughout the country at large, it's a relatively small sample size. Do you think that that gives a fair representation of the, you know,

the sentiment within the sport at large? I think it does when coupled with all of the other evidence we've collated. So we took evidence from individuals, we carried out a written survey that hundreds of people responded to, we carried out primary research, and we examined the data. So you put all of that together and the body of evidence that we have is substantial, and it's robust. And just finally, if we made us turn to a degree of positivity in terms of what the efforts that are being made,

in your research, did you see areas where there are signs of the sport getting this problem, tackling it and making the difference? We did, we met some wonderful people within cricket, some volunteers, some leaders in the game who are committed to seeing change and working very hard in order to make that happen. We saw some great initiatives, chance to shine, Ace, particularly come to mind.

So there are some good things going on in cricket. You know, the improvements that we've seen in the women's game, there are some green shoots there. And I hope that that will give confidence to the game, that it's about building on those improvements and recognising the stark realities of what is going on in cricket and committing to improve it. a lot more of that kind of thing and this is a moment that has to be seized do you think for the sport

a lot more but it's not just i would i really don't want cricket or the ECB to have a knee-jerk reaction it's a long report it's very detailed i think there needs to be time for reflection introspection coming together and then figuring out how it's going to make good on the recommendations we make um but the time truly is now. Cricket is never going to be a game for all if it doesn't seize the opportunity that I believe, sincerely believe that our report represents. Well, that was Cindy Butts. She's the author of the Independent Commission for Equity and Cricket Report that was delivered yesterday, speaking to our sports editor Dan Rowan. And so, Dan, as far as the ECB's concerned,

what's the response being to that? Well, the governing body itself was already under scrutiny, I think, Jonathan, because of the Yorkshire scandal that we've mentioned, it has been contrite. It has three months to consider the recommendations, and then it'll have to come up with an action plan. Its chairman is Richard Thompson, and I asked him for his response. Well, I think the first thing I need to do, Dan, is to apologise, and that's the first recommendation that the report made. So I think to those individuals that have been discriminated against, that have been excluded, all of those individuals. The game, the ECB, the game as a whole, owes them a real genuine apology.

A heartfelt apology as to the fact that this should be a game for all and unfortunately this report identifies with the fact that it has not been a game for all. Apology is one thing, actually tackling it and making improvements as another. How all committed are you to doing that? Totally. I mean, it's the game's a single biggest priority now. Given that there have been reports in the past that have not been acted on, this report has to be acted on now. This is a seminal moment in the sense that the game had the leadership

in place to implement this change two and a half years ago when it put together the ICEC report. So this is a report that the game itself commissioned and probably few sports have ever commissioned a report that has generated this level of interest and also this number of recommendations which we now need to look very harder. The numbers are stark, Richard, one in two respondents saying that they experienced discrimination in the game. How could it have come to this? Well, it has come to it and now we have to deal with it once and for all. There cannot be a repeat of this.

When I became chair ten months ago, I made a very clear ambition and I set what I believe the bar to be reasonably high that I felt cricket should be the country's most inclusive sport. I think this report will accelerate that process now. At the time, I said it will probably take us five years to achieve that. And I think now we've probably got a bigger hill to climb based on what we've read in this report in terms of achieving that level. But cricket does reach communities that no other sport does. We do reach areas of the country and the power of cricket is so powerful how one of our greatest strengths has now appeared to become one of our greatest weaknesses is a tragedy.

Based on the findings of this report and your own experience, Richard, would you accept that English cricket is institutionally racist right now? I accept the findings of the report as they are what they are and as challenging as they are they are the findings of this report so how big a problem is racism than in the game right now I think there are certain areas

it's a problem that's why we commission this report we would not have commissioned this report if we didn't think it was a problem so I think by doing that demonstrates that we thought there was a problem well that was Richard Thompson chair of the ECB with Dan Rowan Dan thank you very much indeed

for pleasure for coming in today now we're going to speak to Dean to each in a second. But first, the England captain Ben Stokes made a statement before his press conference yesterday. To the people involved in the game who have been made to feel unwelcome or unaccepted in the past, I'm deeply sorry to hear of your experiences. Cricket is a game that needs to celebrate diversity on all fronts, because without diversity, this game would not be where it is at today. As a sport, we need to learn from past mistakes and do all we can to make people feel safe and be themselves at every level. I have been an

England player since 2011 and I feel very fortunate to have been a part of some incredibly diverse teams and love how everyone has a different story to tell. We must go further and be more inclusive and diverse because the game I love and the millions worldwide love should be enjoyed without fear of discrimination or judgment whether that be due to your upbringing, race or gender. As I said earlier, everyone has a different story to tell. I am Ben Stokes, born in New Zealand, educated pupil who dropped out of school at 16 with one GCSE and PE. I needed help with the spelling and grammar in this speech and I am currently sitting here as the England men's test captain. It is clear there is so much more the game has to do and as players we really want

to be a part of that to ensure that this is truly a sport for everyone. The Dakar rally is the ultimate off-road challenge. Perfect for the ultimate defender. The high-performance defender, Octa, 626-horsepower twin-turbo v8 engine and intelligent 6D dynamics air suspension. Learn more at landrover.ca. It just smashed right into the World Trade Center. It was a big, big explosion of place.

People who knew me. A story about lies. You used a terrorist attack to run away from your mess. fake your own death. And love. Are you proposing to me? In the face of death. I'm Paul. I'm six weeks sit at chemo. And I have no eyebrows. An original drama for BBC Sounds. Yeah, something's out. Starring Rosamund Pike and Hugh Lorry. Happy death anniversary. People who knew me, listen on BBC Sounds. Now with me, Isigua, who as well as being a colleague of ours on Test Match special, BBC TV, was also the first woman from an Asian heritage to play for the England's women's side. And

Dean Wilson here as well, cricket correspondent for the mirror and chair of the cricket writers club too. Thanks for coming, both of you too, obviously. Dean, let's start with you. What did you make of that report when you first opened it up on your laptop? Hi, I guess, yeah, I, how do I put this? I wasn't surprised because I think a lot of the content that is in it are quite familiar to me. to lots of other people who are kind of

affected by the stories but I was at times overwhelmed by it and you know coming to Lords this week you know for this game which is

I'm usually kind of looking forward to so much and just full of the sort of joys of summer and enthusiasm and this report actually just drained that away from me totally and why was that because

I mean you must have been expecting a lot of what was there but it's still you know when you do read through and look I've read plenty of the report but I'm still going back over it and as Cindy said on that piece there that it's so robust it's such an

incredibly detailed piece of work that you can't read it in even in a day or two you know it's going to take a while to keep going back but every time I'm going back to it and I'm picking out more stories and more detail and it's just so disheartening really when you see it kind of written down even though you you kind of know it this is what you know and and I'm familiar with you know I spoke to my dad about it yesterday and my dad's response was you know

this is it this is England this is cricket this is the way it has always been this is the way it is and you know we know this and and he's and he's right and it's true and we have talked about it over time, but it still hurts when you read it in such stark terms. Eisha, how did you feel when you first started reading that? Yeah, I think it's been a long time coming, and we've had many different conversations over the last few years around the different experiences that the people have faced, which has been quite damning, it's been hard to listen to, and for people that are in the sport, They want to see it thrive.

I don't think anyone who loves the game of cricket wants to hear that people are having negative experiences. But sadly, they are there, and we cannot look away from that. We cannot be in denial that this is not going on. We can't be surprised with the fact that this is all happening. We can't brush it under the carpet anymore. This is here.

This is real. And that's why there was a necessity to have the report. So people could see it. in the clear light of day exactly what's going on under the surface. And now we can see it. We can't look away. We can't be in denial.

We have to come together as people who love our sport and work together to find solutions going forwards. It has been a game for a particular type of person and that was how it has been in the past. But for cricket to survive, we have to open the doors to other communities. communities and make it completely inclusive and have a sense of belonging.

And I think it's complex. There's a lot of complexities to what we're seeing and what we've heard. We all have individual experiences. You can't just put me in a box and say, South Asian girl grew up in England, she had this type of experience. Because my experience is very different to another South Asian girl who grew up in a different part of the country. So we can't do that.

But I do think we need to simplify things. and say, can we just be respectful to each other? Can we just look at another human being and respect that they love cricket too? And we want to support them as best as we can to make sure they can play the game they love. I mean, there are so many strands, aren't there? I mean, racism, sexism, class,

just everything, every aspect of everyday life has been put under the spotlight and has failed. Yeah, exactly. And it is life, actually. you know cricket we're talking about cricket here but you know it's not just cricket of course it isn't but cricket has an opportunity in its parish to to make or you know set an example actually and to you know face up to this challenge and lead in a way that shows how we can be a bit more tolerant and respectful I mean respect is the key word as Isha says that is the first

fundamental part of this that we treat each other with respect as a great starting point and from there everything else kind of flows but yeah it's across the board I think that that's the thing as well that not just the depth but the breadth of it that kind of shines a light on as you say sexism classism racism racism you know any form of discrimination really I mean even to the point where I look at the game and I think about, I've heard lots of stories around racism in professional dressings, but it kind of goes beyond that sometimes. I had a terrific story from Mark Alain, actually,

about his time at Gloucestershire, where it wasn't even so much discriminating against teammates based on their race. It was discrimination against any kind of characteristic. So it might have been someone with, ginger hair or it might have been someone with a big nose or it might be you know all these things which you've been in a in a dressing room and that is sort of you know the B word that is always used about you know that's just how dressing room is well but yeah but they don't have to be that way

and actually mark and this is going back you know several years now and he said actually when we looked at it we realized that we want to support our our teammates and actually the the chap who the butt of the jokes for his dancing or for you know whatever else you're making him feel less than and so it doesn't matter what issue you're kind of castigating your teammate about actually it's a kind of toxic environment that has been allowed to just fester over time and yes it's come out really obviously in terms of racism sexism and and elitism but it's attitude full stop and that's where leadership is so important as we look

to solutions going forward. There are so many amazing leaders in this game who have got it right and they've tried to encourage inclusivity in the dressing room and people who are allowed to be themselves but also having an eye on different people around you

that actually they might be affected by that comment. I might go and take them to one side at some stage during the day and just check that they're okay because quite often with these things for those in the minority they just go along with it

because they want to feel part of the team and they do it because maybe they're on the fringes as well and they don't want to upset the apple cart and they don't want to cause a scene so they can stay part of that environment for those that have left the game it's because they had those experiences

and they weren't happy with it and they had nowhere to go and talk about it so for me it's just having that understanding that you can look out for your teammates and it doesn't have to be the leader but that leader needs to create the culture within that dress room. It's not just the captain, it's the coach as well and the coaching environment around that group of players.

I think Isha makes a really pertinent point there. I'll bring it back to the Azim Rafiq issue where I think quite a few people who have been involved at Yorkshire have tried to point to Azeem's behaviours as being just as bad as others, as if that's an equivalent. But actually, Azeem's trying to fit in. He is someone who's trying to assimilate himself into an environment which behaves the way that it did.

Because he feels he has to. Because he feels he has to. And actually it actually takes being pushed so far down that road to actually then stop and think, well, enough's enough. Let's talk about black cricket. Because a player of my generation, I played with a lot of black cricketers. I was there at the Oval in 1984 with an incredible atmosphere of the crowds with the West Indies playing.

And what has happened, the demise of black cricketers, is criminal, frankly. The whole enthusiasm and the people I play with from Devin, Malcolm, Gatton, Small, flipped a freighters, you can list. And I think that the authorities at the time were very complacent, and that these were not a product of our system at all. They were first generation immigrants from the Caribbean. But I think the authorities were able to say, okay, that's fine. We're looking good. But actually there was nothing there. There was no foundation.

There was nothing in place. And then, and I might as well, to bring us in as well, to put cricket behind a paywall, disenfranchised, well, so many people, but particularly the lower paid. And I think particularly African-Arabian cricket lovers, how are they going to ever fall in love with cricket? if they can't see it, there's no, very little cricket in state schools, they can't play it.

How is it a surprise that black cricket has just fallen off a cliff? Well, there's quite a few things to say about it. And again, it's complex. But, you know, all those little things. So making it difficult to get to games, whether it's the introduction of you need to have a credit card to buy a ticket,

you've got to buy your ticket, well in advance before you go you can't just turn up on the day online it's got to be online but going back years you know those were the sorts of practices put in place to try and stop you know the scenes that were there at the Oval in 84 weeks it was so joyous well for some people it was it was joyous others saw it and thought oh we don't like that we don't want that kind of noise and that environment at our grounds and so putting and

but of course they didn't say that it wasn't as overt to say we don't want them there. It was, well, what systems can we put in place that actually prevents them but without saying that we don't want them there? And then on top of that, you know, you talk about the sort of lower socioeconomic status. I go to the Oval every year

and I see lots and lots of black people at the Oval. I see lots and lots of them. But they're all doing bar staff, waiting staff, waste management, event support, security and a low skilled work around the outside and I sort of chuckled because it is around the outside the game is going on in the middle but all their eyes are on the outside and there's a total disconnect between the local community immediately around the Oval and I'd say as well here at Lords as well I walked in this morning and again black faces brown faces event support bar staff but they're not on the field. They're not in the, you know, the chief executive's office has got a great view of the pitch,

but there's no black face in there. And so, as I say, it is complex, but in order for the game to really move forward, not just in London, you know, I know we're talking about the Oval in London, I'm from London, that is my experience, but we could talk about Warwickshire and Edgbaston and the community there in Hansworth.

We could talk about Manchester. We can talk about Leeds Caribbean Cricket Club set up by a windrush passenger, Alfred Gardner, just celebrated 75 years. He set up that club that is still going. You know, where are the black players in Leeds playing for Yorkshire as well as the Asian players coming through from Bradford and other local community?

So, look, this is a nationwide issue. It is something where the game has. has to accept that moving forward, we open up, we open our hearts, we open our minds, right, and we actually say, no, we want a game for everyone, we're going to do this together. Do you feel, Eisha, that actually, we've had these reports before and so on, but because of the depth of this, because it's so hard hitting, actually, there is no hiding place for the ECP now. I know they're saying that we have three months to digest it,

and I reckon most people think that's okay, because there's a lot. in there and they've got to do a lot. Their finances have more or less nailed down until 2008 and there's things in that report that they're saying they should try and do now. They've got a lot of things to consider. Do you think that actually

there is no hiding place? So that this is actually going to do something. There's no hiding place for the ECB but for any organisation within cricket I'd say the key stakeholders. You know, everyone has to take a look at themselves. Organisations are they equipped to deal with

discrimination? And that was, you know, the one knock on effect of the Al-Zim Rafiq trial was that organisations became better equipped to deal with, you know, making sure there were reporting mechanisms in place. Is that there for every organisation? I hope it is now. Because, you know, many people in the game experience discrimination. They might have heard something that has been said, not to them, but to someone else. But how do you report that? Are you going to go to your, I mean, in our environment here at the BBC, we're going to go to our producer and feel comfortable telling them how you feel about certain subjects without that going anywhere else? You know, we're getting down to the nitty gritty here and actual examples. But a lot of these things need to be set up with transparency and openness

to be able to handle these situations. And that's what we're faced with in the game. You look at clubs as well. If there are any clubs out there wanting to do something and want to improve their offering for other people around them, you just go to your club and you look and you see who isn't there. Who is not there playing cricket? And then you go, okay, how do we try and attract more people to our sport?

And look, I'm not, this is not about pointing fingers actually anymore either, As Isha rightly said, it's about trying to move forward together. I'm in the media, and the reason I'm here talking about this now is because I'm the only black correspondent in the press box. And I was sat in the press conference yesterday, and I looked around the room, and there was one woman, there was one Asian face, there was one black person, and the rest were white men.

Okay, and so that is in our house. That is in the press box, in the media as much as anything else. So, you know, it is not a unique situation. We have to all try and do what we can to improve things. And I would say to any young person listening now who wants to get involved in cricket writing or cricket media, the cricket writers club does have a mechanism to try and support and bring some different faces into the press box through our diversity fund.

There is work being done by LV insurance with their own diversity fund as well that they've got students coming through. So if you're interested, I'm making an absolute plea here to say that we've got to do this together. We are open. Let's try and make this a game for all, absolutely, both on the pitch and off it. ECB, BBC, organisations, come on, we can do better. We could talk for a long time on this. Thank you both very much indeed Dean and Eisha for their thoughts on that report that was published yesterday

that states that English cricket is institutional. and structurally racist, classist and sexist. The TMS podcast on BBC Sounds. Big, baggy, flamboyant, luminous green, pink and yellow shirts. Brill-creamed hair, boy band style. Levi's denim jackets, whack on the cologne. Welcome to Belfast 1997. Not just any old part of Belfast, but gay Belfast.

It was electric. There was semi-naked guys dancing in cages. Every cell in my body was just lit up. at the bar was Darren Bradshaw. What happened next would go on to threaten peace in Northern Ireland. One of the few gay police officers in the country shot dead. Someone had told them that Darren Bradshaw was going to be murdered. It's a story that's never been told before.

For his own skin, he traded Darren's life. This is Blood and the Dance Floor. Listen now on BBC Science.