Test Match Special - CWC 5 days to go: Smith's ton steers Australia to victory

Episode Date: May 25, 2019

Simon Mann brings reaction as England fell to a 12-run defeat by Australia in a thrilling World Cup warm-up match in Southampton after Steve Smith's first century since being banned for his part in the ball-tampering scandal.Also hear from Graeme Swann, Jos Buttler, Alex Carey, Steve Smith and award-winning author Geoff Lemon about life in Australian cricket since the sandpaper affair.

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It's a tie. Australia is in the final. Kevin O'Brien from nowhere has scored the fastest hundred in World Cup history. That's it. The West Indies have retained the title. And India have caused one of the greatest upsets in the history of all sports. Australia have emphatically won their fifth World Cup by seven wickets. Hello, I'm Simon Mann and welcome to the Test Match special podcast looking back on a tight defeat for England against Australia at the Hampshire Bowl.

Coming up, we'll hear the thoughts of Graham Swan and we'll get reaction from Josh Butler, Alex Carey and Steve Smith. And we'll also chat to award-winning author Jeff Lemon about life in Australian cricket since the sandpaper affair. You're listening to the TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 last. So Australia have won their first official warm-up against England by 12 runs with England bowled out for 285. Australia 297 for 9. A century for Steve Smith. And then in England's inning, 64 from Vince, 52 from Butler, 52 from 31 balls.

In its way, the innings of the day, certainly lit up the day. And then Chris Wokes run out for Ford. He was playing well before he was run out in a mix-up. A strange day. Graham in a way. Yes. For England, perhaps more than Australia, Australia needing the practice, preparing for the World Cup. England had bags of practice already this summer that series against Pakistan where they won four matches.

What did he make of it? It was a glorified practice game, but it was an important one for both teams. I think the lessons that have come for England should definitely be learnt. Awful against Nathan Lyon. him 30 dot balls. They didn't have a way of maneuvering around on a wicket that didn't spin viciously. And there were just too many dot balls from England. It was too much of a laissez-faire approach to chasing that total, apart from the injection from Joss Butler very shortly. He looked to class above every other England player. So work to be done, but they won't read too much into

it. But well done, Australia. I've got to say Steve Smith batted very nicely today, and I did say He was far too slow, but only time would tell whether it was a decent knock or not, which it did. It's a well done, Steve Smith. Do you think England, when they walk off, you think, actually kick themselves not winning the game? You know, as a professional sportsman, you know, you want to win. You know, people say, oh, you know, if I'm playing a game of tidly winks, I want to win. Yes. What about England's feeling about losing that game?

Oh, absolutely. They will have wanted to win. And let's face it, none of them were bowled out by the opposition, none of them got decent deliveries. to get out and nearly all got double figures and pretty decent starts so 10 people had the chance to win the game for England and none of them managed it that's a talking point in the debrief James Vince should have won the game for England yeah 64 again you see a play like that and you see his quality and yet you want him to play that's all really defining innings yes you do completely and it looked like he was going just going along very very nicely today and then

just as we were waxing lyrical about him potentially winning the game and making sure he definitely has a spot in the top three for the World Cup. He just guided one straight to short third man, which put other people under pressure and ultimately costing him in the game. Talk about the

intensity with which you approach a game like this more specifically if you're an England player, I think than an Australia player because Australia haven't had as much match time as England have had this summer. Yeah, it is difficult because there's 22 people with different agendas on the field

they're all trying to get the best out of themselves for the start of the World Cup with the early injuries to Wood and the scare to Archer and then the split finger to Dawson naturally you do take your foot off the gas a bit in the field because you think well I'm not getting injured

on the eve of the World Cup however they're just seen from both teams neither team could really find the drive to be to treat it as a pull international game which is very understandable it's very hard to do but having said that you still pride yourself

on being able to oust an opposition who you're better than on paper and you are number one in the world so England should have had the pride to say no there's no way we're losing this game I think it'd be better if these games

were full one-day internationals a thousand percent I hope I don't have to commentate on too many more practice matches like this I hope they do say actually let's make them internationals if we're charging 25 quid a ticket let's make the full internationals yeah I suppose you see

they're better than warm-ups to test match series where teams can bat all day and you can lose 15 wickets it was more of a contest than that But in a way they're very similar because if you take the actual rules of cricket way like Adil Rashid didn't play the game but battered at the end Jopha Archer as well

doesn't sit right yes if you get a couple of injuries it's tough luck basically going into the tournament I think if you're going to have warm-up games where you can all bat 15 times do that on outgrounds do that on the reserve pitch on the day where no one watches. If you're going to play a game in front of 10,000 people, make it a full international.

What about Steve Smith today? We've touched on it. That's not a bad way to return, is it? I know he's been returning, you know, he's been playing the IPL, but he has to come over in the first match, which I suppose the English public will have focused on after his ban and come out and play what was essentially a match-winning innings. Yeah, it was a nice hundred. What he did, I hope James Vince watched him again,

because in the ashes last time he was. exactly what Steve Smith did in Australia where he plundered the English bowling he got a start and then just went on and on and on and didn't give a chance away. Four or five Englishmen got in in exactly the same manner of Smith today but then got out and the fact that they didn't win is because Smith went on to get

100 and Vince didn't go on to get 100 so again he's shown that a wise old head he didn't score quick enough in my point of view and if that was a full World Cup game I'm sure they'd have tried to put the foot down and go on a lot harder to get 3.20, 3.30. But England, equally chasing that, someone should say, hang on it's

actually, it's not hard to stay in on this pitch if you want to and just back to the end and win the game. But none of them did that. Mark Wood, he pulled up at the start of his fourth over. We'll get some reaction from Joss Butler very shortly. England are sort of playing it down a bit, but there must be concerns, mustn't they, about Wood's fitness? You see something like that? There's always a concern about Woody's fitness because he never seems to get fit and stay fit for a long time. So I think, judging by the fact that he pulled up halfway through his run-up, he didn't run up and bowl on it and sort of fall in a heap,

I'm sure it's precautionary. And, I mean, I don't know what the scan said, but he didn't look to be limping off when he walked. He was just, I think he'd wrapping him in Cottonwall, which is understandable. I mean, injury is one thing that could actually disrupt England's World Cup. We had the Morgan injury. Yeah.

would a bit of a question mark we even saw joffar archer sprawling on the boundary road today and he stayed down for a while you're a sense in the crowd actually already they're buying into the idea of how important archer is to england's world cup hopes and when he got up everyone cheered you can imagine the medical staff for england just having a heart attack and what's this why is this happening what's going on but now he's fine he's fit and he'll be a vital cog for england in the world cup yeah and leum dorson he had that finger problem as well not too serious. What have you got to Andy Zaltzman?

Well, very disappointing second consecutive loss for England against Australia and World Cup Warmark Games. They lost a game with them in 2007 in which Liam Plunkett in fact played. And I guess good news for Australia in that they had lost 10 of their previous well, 10 of their last 11

full one day into nationals against England losing Series 4-1 and 5-0 last year and the Champions Trophy group match in 2017. So a welcome win against their oldest enemy. But how do you record a game like that in your record books? Do you just throw away the papers at the end of the day?

I have my shredder warming up, Simon, as we speak. This is the TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live. So a lot was made today about how Steve Smith and David Warner would be received on their return to England. Well, this is what happened when Warner was dismissed and Steve

Smith came out to bat. Plunk it. Very straight run into his action there's been clubbed away by Warner high in the air into space but is Birsto underneath it

he is and takes the catch and he points towards the crowd he had a lot of work to do Johnny Birstow and a double fist pump with an excellently taken catch he's made it look very very simple but he was going full pace

it was high on the bat of David Warner he got height rather than distance and stop it Birstow running round the boundary edge snaffles the catch and Warner has gone for 43 and the second Australian wicket falls

they're 82 for 2. Sorry Charlie I wasn't telling you to stop it it was the booze that rang around the ground come on let it go people he's actually batted quite nicely there David Warner 43 from 54 not the quickest innings ever but

it would be good time in the middle for him very good catch from Johnny Berto one of the few plays in long sleeves which I always wore a long sleeve myself and it was very smart indeed possibly the red hair and the skin burning aspect of a short sleeve shirt but he made good ground we all know he's a very good athlete and he seemed to enjoy the catch and here we go and that's the

entrance of Steve Smith replacing David Warner it will die down absolutely no doubts about that but it's semi-expected hold your tongue graham swan for the moment it's two for two and steve smith who makes his way out into the middle i'm sure he is way too long in the two to let it bother him and i'm sure he's delighted to be back in an australian shirt and he goes out to join sean marsh who's 19 not out but a very well-judged catch by johnny bears stow and plunkett in the wickets immediately had quite the eventful over leon plundks yes run out attempts first and and getting whacked for a four, the second ball, which was just over the head of Liam Dalson at midwicked,

and then takes a wicket with his third. Yes. And it was a hack across the line from David Warner. Can I unhold my tongue now? You may. It's going to go on all summer. I, for one, would like it noting in the captain's log. I think it's falling to their level.

But despite that lively introduction, Smith went on to score a really fine hundred, and he spoke after his innings to his former Australia captain, Michael Clark. Steve, thanks for your time, mate. I bet that felt good. Yeah, nice to score a few runs out there and spend a bit of time in the middle.

Big ground, so lots of running, so cook now. But looking forward to some fielding later on and keep getting some miles in the legs and getting ready for that first game. A few booze when you walked out. Just one of the things, how have you prepared for that? Obviously, I'm sure it's something you knew was coming, but how have you prepared for that?

I'm pretty chilled. Everyone's entitled to their opinions and stuff. And, you know, I'm just happy to be back playing and trying to do a job for my team. And, yeah, fortunately, was able to contribute today with a few runs and hopefully I can take this form into the World Cup. Your form certainly hasn't changed.

You look like you're striking the ball so well. How was that surface? Yeah, it was nice. When the ball was full, it was coming on really nice. When it was into the wicket, it might have been a little bit too pace. So boys have got this game and another game to sort of get used to the English conditions and then into the big stuff. 297 enough today?

I don't know. England's a very good side, as we've seen, and they chase over 300 very regularly. So we're going to have to bowl and field very well. Playing against obviously the number one team in the world at the moment, England. important is it for this Australian team to try and get a win here? It'd be nice. It's obviously still working on different skills and making sure we've got our skills in a good place for the first game. But, you know, winning's a habit and the boys

have been on a good role the last couple of months, winning lots of games of one-day cricket and hopefully we can carry that on today and keep taking some form into this World Cup. Mate, very well played. And once again, thanks for your time. Cheers, both. The TMS podcast, available every day during the Cricket World Cup. Now we're going to talk a bit more about Steve Smith now in this Australia side, Jeff Lemon, who wrote the book, Steve Smith's men, which has been very well received in most parts, I think.

I'm not sure how it's been received in the Australian Cricket Board, but you can tell us about that in just a moment. It won the Wisden Book of the Year award, and it also won the MCC cricket book of the year award. You must have been quite happy, and presumably very wealthy as well at the moment. I don't think there are a lot of very wealthy writers, It's J.K. Rowling and daylight, as far as that's concerned.

But it's been nice to get the reception for what was a book that I wasn't expecting to have to write being on that South Africa tour last year. And there were only half a dozen Australian journoes over there covering it. So it seemed like one of us had to do it. Someone had to put their hand up. So I stepped into the breach, but it wasn't something I was anticipating. So Jeff Lemon is with me. Tell me about the book.

And what's his main theme, really? or its main conclusions as well? I suppose it was about coming to the end of that tour and thinking how the hell did all of that happen, what just happened, how did it get to that point? And realizing very quickly as we were trying to trace things back that it went back a lot further than a few weeks or a couple of months and that there were a much broader web of factors, of context

that led into creating the context for that ball tampering plot to be uncovered. It felt like something was going to break in the Australian set up at some point. And if it hadn't been that, it might have been something else. It might have been any one of half a dozen other things that would have boiled over because things weren't healthy inside that Australian team at the time. But hold on. They just won the ashes.

They just thumped England. Yep, they had. 4-0. As we remember, the four fingers up at the ceremony in Sydney. And that was pretty indicative of the kind of hyper-agrubes. progressive culture that was being promulgated through this Australian team that if people don't remember there were these massive cardboard hands there was an Australian flag hand with four fingers raised and England won with no fingers raised they had all the variants for three two and five nil and so on as well and it was the most graceless winners podium you could possibly imagine you know imagine calling up your opposition well it wasn't even the captain because Joe root was sick in the dressing room so I think it was Jimmy Anderson coming up to deputise, having to come up and stand in front of this sort of gloating display of ha ha, we've beaten you.

I mean, the whole slogan for that Asher Summer was literally beat England, that was it. It was not very inventive. So all of those things were pointing to the fact that not all was well within Australian cricket. And so the ball tampering episodes seemed like an expression of what was wrong rather than the thing that was wrong itself. So I wanted to try to dig through that, get to the bottom of that and work out. what had been happening when it had started and how far back we had to go.

Did you talk to lots and lots of people or was it you observing from close quarters? It was a bit of both. A lot of it was based on the tours, I mean the South Africa tour obviously but I've been travelling with the team for about six years. So through the whole of Darren Lehman's reign, I started covering Australian cricket full time in 2013 in England when he took over. So that fitted in very neatly that our arcs going. incited. So there was a lot that I'd observed over those years. And then I got home from the South Africa tour, did about a month of interviews with as many people as I could get hold of. None of them wanted to be quoted in the book, unsurprisingly. But a lot of them were very frank and were happy

to be frank. What players? Administrators, no, because nobody wanted to talk to me, because they probably guessed the general thrust of the book that I was going to write. But I didn't necessarily set out to do the full documented history. I knew Gideon Hague was writing a book on it as well and I thought he's got a better address book than I do and he'll cover that better than I can. But what I also wanted to do was just tell the story of what happened on that tour and tell the version that I would tell if I were sitting down in the pub with you over a table and saying what went on on that trip? Because it was such a bizarre and extraordinary few weeks being in the middle of this hurricane where suddenly global interest is on the

Australian team and suddenly the handful of us covering that team are having to service every media outlet across the world to tell them what's going on. I wanted to give people a sense of what it's like to be inside that because that was unprecedented for us as well to have that level of scrutiny. And it was fascinating. It wasn't a cheerful experience we were watching people's lives fall apart, but it was a fascinating experience. And so I wanted to bring an audience into that and let them know what it was like to be on the ground while all of that was going on. Yeah, so in the book, you talk about that, you explain it, and you take us through the various episodes in that, well, for us was that Australian winter,

and that you were in South Africa as well. What about your conclusions, though, towards the end of the book? What did you conclude? I mean, a lot of people saying, or there have been suggestions that, well, if they were doing it in South Africa, the bull tampering, they must have been doing it in the ashes as well. Did you come to that conclusion? Not necessarily the ashes because I don't think reverse swing was a factor in the ashes.

I did go back and look through everything I could find on the ashes and I did cover that series. But it was interesting to note, I think about a third of the English wickets fell to short balls from fast bowlers. A lot of the rest of them, well most of the rest of them fell to the new ball or to Nathan Lyon. So there were about two wickets in the series out of 90 odd that were lost that might have involved a bit of reverse swing. So even if there was anything going on in the ashes, it didn't have any material effect on the outcome of the ashes. I don't necessarily think there was. So England were beaten fair and square?

They were beaten square. It wasn't the most edifying spectacle in a range of ways in terms of what was going on on the field, even in things that might have been inside the rules, but outside the bounds of good-mannered behaviour. But I also looked in the book a lot at ball tampering itself, the history of it, why we have such a strong emotional response to it, because a huge part of what was fascinating about this story was, why did people care so much? Why did this particular

incident make people blow up? A couple of months later, Dinesh Chandemarle, the Sri Lankan captain, was done for ball tampering in the West Indies. No one paid at the slightest bit of attention. Nobody looked at it at all. So there was a lot to do with the fact that this was Australia and that there was a certain perception of Australia, which was probably fairly justified about them being both aggressive and sanctimonious about them dishing it out and not taking it. And so this was a fall that a lot of people around the cricket world enjoyed seeing happen because they thought it was deserved. And I'll emphasise that that included a lot of Australian supporters.

There's a big segment of the cricket-loving public in Australia who felt alienated by their own team and their own administration because they don't feel like it represents them. They don't feel that. How do you know that? Because of the people that we talk to, the people who write articles on fan sites, the people who follow the kind of work that I do where I try to take a different tack, it's not necessarily to say that everybody's on the side of the things that I agree with, but there's at least a decent chunk of the audience who loves cricket

but feels that they're not included by cricket. they're not included by this idea that the sport has to be hyper-aggressive, that it has to be, and a lot of these things are tied up with masculine culture, with this ideal that men have to be hard and aggressive and uncompromising. And that, by its very nature, tells women that they're not welcome in the game, or that they have to change their behaviour to mimic this idea of what masculine behaviour is in order to be part of it. It's not really friendly to kids to be saying that everything has to be hyper-aggressive in that.

way. So there's a whole world of people out there who feel like sport is not for them because they don't like the atmosphere around it. And it could be for them if that atmosphere were adapted. So are Australia going to change? Have they changed? And how will that manifest itself? I think there's been a reasonable amount of change so far, but the true test of it isn't really now. The test of it is in five years, 10 years, because it's easy when the crime is still recent, you know, as you can see by the booing today, that it's still current in people's minds. When that's still fresh, then it's very easy to be repentant and, oh, we're all going to change

and we'll never do this again. Whether that lasts after the pressure has come off, that's the real test. And the same goes for the administration. They've gone through a lot of reforms. They've moved on people who are problematic. They've got all of these ideas that they're. They've signed up to these pledges they've made that things are going to be different because there's been so much pressure and scrutiny on them from the Australian public especially

and they had to make those changes. But when that pressure subsided in a few years' time, will they actually follow through on a lot of these things? It remains up in the air. I hope they do, but I don't necessarily expect that that's going to happen. If change does happen, how do you think it will manifest itself? Are we talking about player behaviour on the field completely? completely changing, you know, sledging me out the window.

We know, it's because it's well documented, that, you know, things were said during that Ashley's series. I actually haven't all come out, I don't think. No. Although in your book, I think you've alluded to things that David Warner said on the field. I don't know whether you can, you probably can't repeat them necessarily on air. Well, they're not necessarily stories that belong to me, but there was a lot of unpleasantness that was going on,

which was quite deliberately cultivated. And I will say, David Warner's copped a lot of the stick for this. It didn't necessarily start with him because he was taken aside before that series by people further up the management chain and expressly told that they wanted him to be aggressive on the field. And part of that was because they were going to drop Matthew Wade, the wicket-keeper, who was very verbally aggressive

and was partly picked over Peter Neville a year before because he was a more aggressive presence. They felt like they wanted some agro and some drug, drive. Wade was going to be dropped for Tim Payne, who's not really the same sort of character. And so Warner was taken aside and they said, we need you to come back to the aggressive way that you were, get stuck into them on the field, put them off their games, make sure we beat them. You can't really say it worked. It happened to coincide with Australia winning. And that's been the big fantasy about sledging the whole time. If you sledge someone

and you win, then in Australia we say, oh, well, that obviously means that sledging won us the test match, rather than that we were better at cricket, so we won the test It's absurd to suggest that one causes the other. You tend to find that teams who are winning are the ones who sledge. You know, if you're 600 behind in the third innings, you're quite, aren't you? Yeah, not getting stuck in too much. So there's a false correlation that I remember when we won, we were getting stuck into the opposition. But isn't it part of Australian cricket culture?

But this is what I dispute. Yeah, well, okay, I'll put the theory forward. People say, oh yeah, I went and played in grade cricket, or I went and played in club cricket in Australia. I've never known the abuse. I've never known abuse like that. So what do you say? That is true. It does happen.

But the idea that it has to be that way, that it's somehow innate, somehow part of us, is a nonsense. It's behaviour that's been mimicked, that's been emulated. Was it like that 80 years ago? Probably not. Was it like that 30 years ago? Yes. So at some point along the line, people are brought into this culture.

They see older players doing it. They assume that they have to do it that way. If you're a 14-year-old coming in for your first grade game and the 35-year-old blokes around you are getting stuck into you, calling you this and that. Then you assume that that's how it has to be done and you pass it on down the line. And that's how any kind of abusive chain of behaviour gets replicated. You get taught that it's normal and then you copy it. So do you think that's changing?

Do you think with the ball tampering, it's a completely different aspect in a sense? Or you probably say it's part of the same, you know, the same attitude. to cricket, you think that will change in Australia? I don't know if it's changing down the line. I think that would take a lot longer, but I think it has changed for now at the top level. Tim Payne's

been very firm on this and Langer has come in and backed him up on that. So the fact that it's changing at the top level might then start to have an influence to filter down the grades. If you can say, well, this is the standard of behaviour when you play for Australia, so this is the standard we expect at our club.

It'll take a while to through, but it could have an effect. It's certainly better than having it the other way around. And what about Warner being integrated, reintegrated in the side? You know, there was a feeling that, I mean, has the full story come out yet about who was involved? And that's one of the themes of the book, isn't it? You actually think that the full story's not being told. So Warner got ping for it, and Smith has got ping for it, and Cameron Bankroft has as well. But what about the others? Is there resentment in Warders of some of the other players, or some of the other players or suspicious of Warner coming back in and saying, well, you're responsible as well?

I'm not sure how they feel about it now. The fast bowling cartel was certainly angry with him at the time because they were implicated by this language that the leadership group was with the phrase that Steve Smith had used. By that, he met him and Warner. But it implied Mitchell Stark and Josh Hazelwood as well, and they were very unhappy about that. Warner, I believe, was acting with a lot of individual choice.

he wasn't really questioned because he was so senior in the team he did what he wanted and I think he could have made a unilateral decision to do that but it seems it's difficult to believe that he abruptly decided to tell Cameron Bancroft to San Pai for the ball having never done it himself and that's what the Cricket Australia version of events asks us to believe there are plenty of questions that indicate

that there should have been more investigation and basically Cricket Australia were not interested in investigating any further. They looked at that one test match. They never looked at anything from Port Elizabeth where there were strong suggestions that something was going on. They didn't look at anything from Durban

where reverse swing was a massive factor and the ball was reversing very early. So there are obvious weak points in that story that were not investigated. They interviewed five people for the investigation. Smith, Warner, Bancroft, Pete Hanskin, Darren Lehman. They didn't speak to anyone else in the team, anyone else in the setup about what had been going on

before that time. So there are lots of questions. that haven't been answered yet. Is David Warner liked in the Australian cricket team? Or just tolerated? That is a difficult question to answer at this stage. I think probably a year ago, no, I didn't expect he would play for Australia again a year ago,

but I think attitudes might have thawed in the interim because he's handled himself pretty well in his year off. And Steve Smith, how has he seen in that Australian dressing? Steve Smith, there's less equivocation about Smith. He's being more warmly welcomed back, but it helps when you're probably the best player your country's produced since Bradman. Jeff, thanks very much.

The TMS podcast, available every day during the Cricket World Cup. Well, Owen Morgan missed this match with a finger injury. He'll be back on Thursday to lead England out in their opening match against South Africa. Standing captain, Josh Butler, has been speaking to Charles Dagnall. Well, Josh, obviously, defeat is not what you want. What went wrong today? Yeah, it's obviously disappointed when you lose,

but still a very good runout. We had a couple of niggles. Obviously, Mark Wood leaving the field and Liam Dawson later on. So, no, they're not ideal. But, you know, I think we're in a position to win the game and it's disappointing not to get over the line. Of course, that is going to be the headline.

You've had five warm-up games against, or five games against Pakistan, these extra warm-up games, just get that feeling of, well, the only thing that can happen is injuries. A little bit, yeah, I think we're definitely ready for the tournament to start, and we probably were yesterday. But, yeah, they're still.

a good run out for us. These warm-up games are important against, you know, practicing as strong sides and, you know, seeing, getting into the World Cup field. But, yeah, we're definitely ready and we were yesterday. Do you have to be a little more conservative? You know, any slight problem immediately, you know,

you're going to take this as just getting people rested up and making sure that nothing can go wrong further out in the field? Yeah, absolutely. There's no need to take risks in these games. Of course, you know, if the guys are not 100%, then there's no point risking them in these games. I'm thinking in a World Cup game that probably Liam Dawson could have batted

but today there's no need as we just rest him up and get him right for the tournament proper. Do you know how Mark Wood is? No, not yet. He went for a scan and yeah, we're waiting on the results so obviously we hope for good news. Okay, from your perspective

as well, Chris Wokes playing as a batsman purely today, bar the runout. He looked in a pretty good touch. Yeah, he looked in fantastic touch, didn't he? He's it's great for him to get that time in the middle and I think he's one of the class player coming down at number seven or eight again is the strength of the side

having guys like Wokesy and Liam Plunkett striking it well obviously Tom Curran in previous games has batted really well down in that back end so we don't want to have to use them too much obviously you want the top guys score all the runs but it's such a strength to have them down there and of course the depth in the squad it's important to know that players are playing at the top of their

game as and when they're needed if that be the case yeah absolutely and i think that has been you know in the last two years the guys have been really pushing each other from within and and outside the squad of 15 or whatever it is on a tour um we've seen obviously tough selection you know for the world cup which is good it means and the guys have you know no one's let themselves down you know there's more than the 15 that deserve to be here so um no guys are putting in performances it shows that we know we're there and thereabouts ready to go do you know or are you hopeful of having one two of those players available for Monday in the warm-up game against Afghanistan? I think we'll have to wait and see how they pull up.

So obviously, like you said, the warm-up games are warm-up games. You know, you want to win them and play well, but there's no need to take risks. So we'll have to see how they pull up. And feeling good to yourself. Yeah, it's a good ground, isn't it? Yeah, feeling good. Obviously, you know, it's disappointing when you are feeling that good to not really capitalize on it. But I think as a side as well, we played, you know, we're probably about 80,

percent probably and I think obviously we'll think the intensity level when it goes up and we'll be ready for that first game. Lovely. Thanks so much for your time. Cheers, thank you. Well, it wasn't easy for the batsman today, but one player who did make it look relatively comfortable

out there as well as Josh Butler was Australia's wicketkeeper Alex Carey. He made 30 or 14 balls. He's also been speaking to Charles. Well, Alex, a very pleasing outing for you guys today, I would imagine. Yeah, it was nice. Obviously, it's always good to have these warm-up games

and I guess fine tune a few things and play around with a few players and I guess both sides had a few teams had a few players out and it was good just to get out here with a really nice crowd as well as a warm up game 10,000 or so maybe like it was a great atmosphere

of course it's very difficult to say that a very nice crowd but of course there was reaction and I'm sure it was talked about in the team room about David Warner and Steve Smith and the reception they would get was it talked about and how have they reacted Oh, look, we probably thought it was coming and, you know, it was, you know, no surprise, but I guess coming over to England, we love coming over here and playing in front of these crowds.

There's so much atmosphere and I guess we take it for what it's worth. And those guys, you know, they're professional athletes and they knew that was coming. And the way that Smudge played today in front of that was brilliant to see. But it's all part of the game. It's all part of the fun. Like I said, it just brings a great atmosphere. Are they expecting, and are you expecting a similar kind of thing to account? throughout the tournament

because, you know, cricket fans have long memories. Yeah, why not? Yeah, why not? I mean, you know, if it spurs the players on, then go for it. But, you know, like I said, for me it's about the atmosphere and, you know, that brings that and they start singing and I, you know, I'd much prefer to play in front of a crowd that, I guess, embrace

and get involved and then, you know, a few thousand fans and it's all quiet. So it was great. After a barren period of, around about 12 months in Australia one day international cricket you seem to have found your feet the series over in Pakistan

are you learning more about yourselves are you the finished article yet do you think I guess going back 12 months we came over here and we learn a lot about our cricket against a really good English side and they play great cricket and they have throughout so it's been good to

come away from I guess 12 months ago and put into place what we learnt and works really hard off the field and I guess it's good to see the results now showing. We understand the World Cup's going to be high, you know, much more pressure and it's different now. So with like again, with David Warner and Steve Smith coming back into the team, it's only strengthening the, you know, the squad that did really well in India and Pakistan and, you know, you build confidence off the back of that. But like I said, it's

counts for nothing. We've got to rock up. Obviously, Afghanistan played really well against Pakistan. So, you know, it's going to be hot competition. And we're really. really excited, you know, along with, I'm pretty sure, the nine other teams as well. On that front of it again, I'm sorry to labour the point, but obviously he's coming, they're both coming back into the dressing room from an extended period away. Were they welcomed back? Were they, you know, with open arms or was it business as usual? No, they, you know, it's obviously going to be difficult for them, but they, they came back into the playing group and the guys that played with them really got around them.

And I guess, you know, the 12 months probably felt like a long time for them. It felt really quick for us. They were back amongst it, and Davy and Smudge were doing their thing. And, you know, I like to think we welcomed him back with open arms. And good to see them smiles in their face now. You're in good touch yourself? Yeah, it was a nice little bit out today.

It's going in at the back end. You've got to obviously get going. It was nice to get a few. But, yeah, it was good just to battle alongside Smudger and see him do his thing. Lovely. Thanks so much for your time. Well, play.

Thanks very much. Cheers. Kerry, speaking to Charles Dagnall. Our next commentary will be England's final warm-up game against Afghanistan. That's on Monday from 1015 on 5 Live Sports Extra. Lots of cricket podcast to check out at the moment. There's India lost by six wickets today in a very one-sided match at the Oval against New Zealand. The Pakistan lost yesterday to Afghanistan.

The Dusra podcast team have a special look at how India and Pakistan might fare in the World Cup. There are also new additions of tail-enders with Greg James. Felix White and James Anderson and stumped with Alison Mitchell and Jim Maxwell. And don't forget there'll be a new TMS podcast every day ahead of and during the World Cup. Tomorrow Jonathan Agnew

and Jim Maxwell will talk us through the ten moments that shocked the cricket World Cup. Then on Monday morning you'll be able to hear a fascinating interview between Owen Morgan and Michael Vaughn. It's goodbye for now. The TMS podcast at the Cricket World Cup download and subscribe by the

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