Test Match Special - CWC Day 25: South Africa out, Pakistan show promise, and Jimmy on pedalos

Episode Date: June 23, 2019

After a fifth defeat in seven matches South Africa become only the second side to be eliminated from the World Cup. We ask why they've been so sub-par. Predictably Pakistan bring their A-game in a backs-to-the-wall scenario, but do they have enough to mount a late assault on the semis? We hear from Jofra Archer as we look ahead to a massive match between England and Australia, plus Jimmy Anderson reflects on the 2007 tournament in the Caribbean where England failed to qualify from the Super 8s amidst the pedalo fiasco.

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. Bring more gear, carry more passengers, face greater challenges. Welcome to the world of Defender, with seating up to eight, ample cargo space and legendary off-road capability. It's built to make the most of every adventure. Learn more at landrover.ca. BBC Sounds, music, radio, podcasts. Available every day. Cricket World Cup. This is the TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live. Corsetra Bowls. He smashed it. Smash it high down the ground for six. Into the seething crowd

it goes. Island have run and bats are being thrown in the air. The Ireland team are running on. The captain has scored the winning run for Sri Lanka who have won the World Cup for the first time in their history. Yes. The catch is taken now by Rommies. Pakistan have won the World Cup. For the first time, this World Cup, a very warm welcome to the podcast from Lords, where Pakistan and beaten South Africa, whose hopes of semi-final qualification are now over. We'll discuss why their tournament has gone so badly wrong. We'll look ahead to a huge match between England against Australia and hear from James Anderson on his memories of 2007 in the Caribbean and that pedolo fiasco.

From BBC Radio 5 Live. This is the TMS podcast. the Cricket World Cup. Now as is here representing Pakistan, well, you live. We live. We're still alive. Now, what's crucial is even at the start of the day, somebody kind of held my hand in the writers room, and I won't tell you who it was.

But they held my hand, and they said to me, look, even if you lose this game, mathematically you can go through. Even if you lose it. Even if you lose it. And I replied to them, that's maths I don't want to do. No. It's really and truly not. So, I mean, it was quite tense, really, for most of the day,

even though things were going relatively to plan, even with the dropped catches and what have you. It was still quite tense of Pakistan because a lot was on the line. But in front of like a crowd that have turned up to support their team, they've done the business. Well, they have, and I'm just looking at this run-in that Pakistan have. And when they play, isn't it, we've talked about this before, haven't we, about how frustrating it is to be a Pakistan fan.

And there's another example of it. And I think it was Rameses who was saying today, when they absolutely have to do it, where the chips are absolutely down, as it was in 1992 of course don't put it beyond Pakistan to suddenly just click absolutely I mean as you say they're running is

it's it's not it's got a couple of games in there that you expect them to win you expect them to beat Bangladesh you'd expect them to be Afghanistan and New Zealand is obviously a very difficult game but historically they've done very well against them as well so it's certainly not beyond the realms of comprehension that they could actually do a four and four

and kind of find their way against all the odds seemingly in the semi-finals so and certainly the performance today makes you feel optimistic. It wasn't perfect. There were a lot of blemishes on that record, and one would argue that they should have really finished that South Africa innings off a long time ago,

and that scorecard kind of flatters as a Z-1, South Africa's perspective, given the amount of lives they were given by the Pakistani fielders. But ultimately, they've come through, and I made the comment earlier as well. Like, you know, they can drop 60 catches if they want to, as long as they win the game, which they have done. So very happy, happy contingent here in St. John's Wood, I think. You can tell by a lot of the Pakistani.

haven't gone anywhere they're still hit. Natalie's just pointed that there to the net run rate which is actually looking at it it's worse only of beaten by as it were by Afghanistan so they are that that's going to it may be that that could be an issue as we get towards that that qualification Harris Sahel is is man of the match he did play well really well it was great I mean it was a lot of pressure was always coming in a show had been given an extended run in the team and you know he hadn't really performed for a while and you know it's a It's kind of an emotional one because it's probably his last World Cup

so they want to give him a long run and they want to give him that magic moment but ultimately you've got to play in the team in your merits and so to come in replacing Malik you don't offer the same value with your spin bowling or with your experience of your Harris to Hill he had to make an impression and he

did I mean those are crucial runs at the end that helped Pakistan to a total that was actually quite imposing in the end on this on this wicket era at Lord so they did a really good job but yeah as you as you were saying like that run they had a very good chance to knock South Africa off for less than they did today

or at least or certainly finish the game sooner make a decent dent in that net run rate which they didn't do will they live to regret it I guess time will tell well indeed Andy I'll get some South Africa stats for you in a second if you like about to try and sort of highlight where their campaign has gone wrong but first of we give Natalie a chance to

to put her finger on what's gone wrong here we had that tweet from Graham Smith didn't be confused from Cape Town sort of work out with what have gone wrong what the plans were and so on can you can you help him out yeah not surprised technically that he would say he doesn't understand what the plans are because when you're watching it from the outside you cannot understand it um what particularly what's what's in particular the vetting there's been no intense there's no there's no sort of desire to score quickly

that it would look like they're actually even trying to do it there was only once where they showed a little bit of intent and that was against new zealand towards the end the last few hours They probably put their foot on the pedal a bit late, but that was the one period of play with the bat where they've looked to accelerate. And it might have come a little bit late in that game, possibly. As Fafuplec said, they probably were 20 runs short. But that has been really lacking from South Africa,

is that desire to put the foot on the pedal and accelerate. Yeah. I mean, losing the first three games as well and then a washout, it's quite difficult to come back from that, I would think, especially since one of those losses was against Bangladesh as well so lose to England lose to Bangladesh lose to India well okay that's that's permissible but then a washout and it's just not getting going is it it's sort of misfiring really yeah they would have looked at their fixtures and said all right what are our bankable games what are the ones we

want to get a point from and if we play to our potential we should be getting a point from and Bangladesh would have been one of them all due respect to Bangladesh who have played brilliantly in this World Cup and also have started to show that they shouldn't ever be seen as a team that anybody's just going to beat them and roll over them. But if South Africa played to their potential, then they should have beat Bangladesh. They made a mistake at the toss as well. That's, I suppose, for them to dissect and maybe change down the line. But Bangladesh would have been one of those games.

West Indies have got a good record in World Cups against the West Indies. They would have probably been banking on that game possibly. They would have looked at Sri Lanka, who they beat 5-0 in South Africa, and thinking this is another team we can probably get two points from. Pakistan possibly, even though it's been a tough one for them in terms of they were quite close in South Africa the last time in the 2015 World Cup. They also lost to Pakistan, but before that had always beaten Pakistan in World Cup matches. So that's another game that they would have looked and said, okay, two points. But as you said, when you lose three in a row at the top, it's very difficult to come back from that.

And it's just going to be yet another case of people saying South Africa and World Cups, it just doesn't work. It's such a bizarre thing, though. If you look at their previous campaigns, barring, if you leave out 2003, they've made the knockout stages of every single, every other World Cup that they've taken part in. This time around, though, failing Disney in the preliminary stages, which is not normal for South Africa.

They normally do well in the preliminary stages. They've got the best, coming into this World Cup, they had, they were second only to Australia in the preliminary records with regards to win-loss ratio. But it was always in the knockouts where they struggled. time around it's it's been almost every match that they've had a struggle yeah andy what have you what have you got stat wise well a couple of things one batting and one bowling we'll start with with batting on the plus side natalie as i was saying on a south africa is now top of the most

quarter century scored in this world cup 23 innings of 25 or more in their six games sadly the highest of those are 68 which is quite extraordinary to not not not reach 70 from that number of stars. Absolutely, yeah. And in terms of the passivity of their batting, I've looked at balls per boundary. And in this World Cup, South Africa have scored one boundary every 12.7 balls.

Only Sri Lanka have scored boundaries less regularly. But in between the two World Cups and matches between the 10 teams in this tournament, South Africa had the third best balls per boundary. They scored a boundary of a 9.9 balls behind only India and England who lead the way. So they batted in a

sort of uncharacteristic. Well, I think there were warning signs over the last year or 18 months they're batting had tailed off. But I don't think anyone expected to be quite as, yeah, oddly passive and restrained as it has been. And in terms of bowling,

the great strength in recent times have been particularly Rabada and Ngidi at the top of the order with the new ball. And they've not been terrible this World Cup but they've failed to take early wickets

and many teams have struggled with this but South Africa in their six games have taken just five wickets inside the first 10 overs averaging 60 with the ball

in that period and looking at just trying to find my I've got so many stats going at once in matches again between the teams since the last World Cup

only New Zealand had a better record with the ball inside the first 10 than South Africa they were averaging about 34 inside the first 10 in that period. So again, it may be expected they're batting

not to be quite as potent as it was four years ago. I think they're expecting a lot more from their opening bowlers. Yeah. Does that some make sense to you now? I think the problem that South Africa had was banking on Oter Skipson's plan, which was plan A was having Lungingiri,

Kachisorabada, and having Dale Stain. Of course, yes. And having those three playing together. but because of injuries to the various players, those three have only ever played three one-day internationals together. That tells you maybe this plan was probably not the way to go, possibly. If obviously it had worked out, maybe it would have been different, maybe not. We don't know, obviously, but it probably would have been a little bit different going into this World Cup.

I should have mentioned Stain's loss as well at the start. When we're talking about that start to the tournament, you lose your main bowler as well. I mean, it's, yeah, it's kind of the writings on the wall of it, isn't it? It is a little bit from South Africa's point of view. I think the worry was that they banked so much on pace that they didn't sort of plan for the next thing. Well, here's the plan B. Where's plan C? Because if things go wrong, which happens often, it happens to the top teams, you've got to have another plan. It felt like South Africa just never did.

And it doesn't help that, obviously, from a batting point of view, their most experienced players were not necessarily in a lot of form. There's still major question marks over Hashamamler's form and whether or not you should. should still be playing in the side, should he be carrying on or not. And unfortunately, he sets a tone at the top of the order, and it's not been a good one for South Africa. So, Pakistan pick up their second win then, and five points they now have. So they are level with Bangor. I should mention that.

I love watching Wahabrio's bowl at the end there. I mean, that, I mean, it might sound silly people might go hard, but it reminded me of Wassim in Melbourne in 92 when he stitched up England's bat. on there with that incredible reverse swing. I mean, these balls don't swing very much, but Reha's got that one going. He did, and, you know, it's been a bit of a renaissance of fast bowlers in this tournament as well.

When you look at the top wicket, because you've got Armour up there, and you've got obviously Archer and Mitchell Stark. Like, you know, it's exciting. Like, it's one of the best sights in World Cricket, right? You see a quick bowler running in, the crowd goes, right? It's a really fun part of the game. So it's really cool to see the fast bowlers dominating again and really getting in amidst the action,

especially in the game that seems to go. more and more towards the batsman. It's great to see some fast bowlers, especially the ones with some pace and some bounce. Having said that, Amir wasn't like super fast most of the day. In fact, I was listening to you guys earlier. I think Rames Roger said something along the lines of Amir bowling, very effective medium pace today. It's Mr. Zaltzman who made that. Oh, sorry, I beg your pardon, right? I'd like to make Andy out and face that bouncer that Amir bowl. I beg your pardon.

But it was, you know, Rome, 81 to 83 most of the day. Yes. It's probably quick to me. It's quick to me. I was piloting the fact that he's not. All the other bowlers at the top of the chart are high-paced bowlers. Sure, I mean, he was very effective. And like you said, Wahabriyaz is, again, one of those bowlers.

I mean, people still talk about that spell to Shane Watson in the previous World Cup. You know, it was really memorable. Even though he didn't get him out, it was really memorable. He bowls with that pace, that aggression just comes out to him. There are shades of wazi macrum in there. There are shades of wazi macrum in almost every left-arm bowler Pakistan has ever produced for that reason. To Safra, who's just speaking now. Is this start of something substantial from Pakistan?

That's what I wanted Ramiz to ask. Let's see what the answer is to this. This kind of a situation where there's nothing much else to do but to win. Definitely, sometimes change is good for the team. Today, the way Haris is batting. I think he is hungry for playing in the match with the way he batting. I think he's the main factor today, I think, trending point. The way he's batting in the last 20 years.

You see Josh Butler played that type. The way he batting today, I think, is a fantastic. Yeah, I mean, you've given yourself a chance, really, to make it the two. top four group. Fielding has got to improve really for you to really then make a move and make a mark. Yes, it is. We have to work hard on our fielding. Again, we dropped so many catches today. So hopefully we will work hard again more hard because all three matches is very crucial. So we have to sort it out these things.

Good to see Shadab with that bowling form because he was critical in the middle phase of the innings and Mohammed Amir certainly has found his mojo. It definitely is a complete, complete bowling effort. I think first year it goes to Mohammed. He took early wicket and in the middle of us. Shadab took three wicket for us. That thing is missing in the previous matches. I think he bowed really well today in middle of us. He also bowed really well in the end.

Wahab Reyes and Shahin Shah Friya and Mohammed did their job for us. Fantastic win today. Good news is that the fans are. That's good and interesting to hear that Rami is pushing in their thing. Is this the start of the role? Some high praise there as well for Haris Sahil. Yes. His captain is Serafra is comparing him to Jost.

Butler and we're talking about like there's three dynamic batsmen in the world well beaters as Barack Coley Josh Butler and AB Daviliers right and you're putting Harris on the back of one I mean he was very impressive don't get me wrong but especially having not played him yeah I mean you want to be a little bit diplomatic surely about the way you describe him also I love Rameez's use of the word mojo there which I'm almost sure Sir Fraz has never used in his life and probably never will if you've got Josh Butler in your side you've given more than more than two games out of the the five six that they've played

wouldn't you? I would imagine. Yeah, you rest him and you use him for those four crucial games at the end, maybe. I don't know. Just as I thought, I mean, we had a great crowd here today, and they've really enjoyed themselves, haven't they? It's interesting to hear the comments, suffer as the comments yesterday about the sort of the abuse they've been getting and the stick they've been getting for their performances. I mean, what did you make of that? Well, we talked about this on the most recent Doucera podcast, and it's, yeah, it was quite hard to watch some of the aftermath of that game against India. Obviously, emotions and tensions

are running high, and it was a very one-sided game. And there was some obvious places to critique the Pakistan team, but certain fans that their emotions get the best of them and start getting personal with their insult. They talk about wives and children and like, you know, and then there was an incident in the shopping mall where there was a fan who filmed himself kind of very harshly, I'm going to say it was very disrespectfully and rudely insulting the Pakistan captain for which he was chastised by the world. It was really nice to see people come to their senses all of a sudden because they were hypercritical of the Pakistan team, as they always are when they lose, even more. more so against India, but like they kind of came to their senses when I go, this is too much. You can't compare up. I won't repeat the insult, obviously, but you can't make these kind of comments about our captain.

You know, he still represents the country of Pakistan. Plus, they're in the middle of a tournament. They're not out of it yet. So let's show them some support. In fact, there were some Indian celebrities. Like, there's a Bollywood actor called Ritesh Teishmuk. He was very, very popular. And he took the time to defend Serafaz as well because, I mean, it was just distasteful a lot of it.

I think this will give fans a bit more pause. they'll still find a way to, there's still plenty of things to pick out if you want to dissect today's game. That wasn't really working, the fielding and the dropping of the catches. Now you think of Harisor Hill, it's very easy to be negative,

but what you really want to do is look forward and think, you know what? One down, three to go. From BBC Radio 5 Live, this is the TMS podcast at the Cricket World Cup. Okay, many thanks, Natalie and Artif. I'm back here at Lords on Tuesday,

for what's now a really big game between England and Australia. that lost to Sri Lanka ramping up the pressure. On Trevor Bayliss's side, it'll be a first exposure to the famous old rivalry for Joffra Archer. I guess just from watching like Ashes and stuff, you know, it's a pretty intense game. For me, I'm not too sure if it'll affect me really,

obviously coming in, not having experienced it before. So I guess it could be an advantage, me not being part of what happened before. So yeah. Usually when England and Australia kind of clashes, There is that extra intensity, always with the ashes kind of in the background. Do you feel that this is an opportunity for you and for the team to put a marker down against Australia? Yeah, yeah, it is.

And I think they're on top of the table, so more than lady, they will go through. So I think if we can beat them now, if we do have confidence, if we do have to clear them in the playoffs. How well did you get to know Steve Smith at the IPR? Would you call them a friend? Yeah. I like to consider he thinks of me the same way but he's a really good guy

cricket is cricket and I guess it's time to be friends after but until the game's over there'll be nothing friendly about it how was the head to head in the nest between you and him who had the best of it? To be honest

in the ballad had him much a lot of the guys probably don't want to face me or a shin in the net so they like the side arm where I throws That was Joffre Archer Speaking at Merchant Taylor School Where England have been training Back here at Lords

Welcome to the TMS podcast To The Sons, John Etheridge and Adam Collins The Australian journalist and broadcaster To look ahead to England Australia I don't know which pitch it's going to be out there fellas But it's one of those two for Tuesday And I'm rather excited Actually, it's going to be fantastic, isn't it?

Yeah, I mean England's defeat the other day He's put a lot more on the game, isn't it And it's going to be You know, David Warner and Steve Smith playing a foot international against England for the first time since all the sandpaper business so that's going to be another sort of plot to the day and it should be a cracker, you know, a good pitch here we've had today

so it's going to be a high-scoring game number thing and all to play for. Yes. Go on Adam, you can have your little chuckle at what happened to England the other day if you like. Look, I'm just grateful that it means the game won't be a dead rubber. So I'm watching it from a sort of a different perspective, I suppose. But for about three or four days there, we were heading down the path of 11 dead rubbers

in a World Cup with a format which is already questionable and it would have drawn it into sharp focus but I'm glad that England lost not for any other reason than the fact that Australia, England, packed house at Lords with plenty on the line, that's going to be a fair income. Yeah, well it is. New Zealand top at the moment, let's just remind ourselves of that with 11

of that thrilling game yesterday. Australia's second then on 10, India still have a game in hand, they're on 9, England there on 8. They have won 4 games. Just juggling all of this around, John. would you agree looking at that that if England win one of these next three games

that should be enough? I think so with their superior run rate one win out of the last three should be enough it's conceivable if results go in a certain way I think that they might need to win two but one should be enough because of their run rate but you know the three toughest games are the last three for England

Australia, India then final in New Zealand and also they finish before anybody else so the other teams will kind of know what they have to do possibly in terms of run rate and that sort of thing So that could possibly count against England as well. So, you know, a little bit of a concern they've lost two games. And, you know, you don't expect World Cup favour to lose those games against Pakistan and Trinand. You know, they really should be games that England are winning.

And just the way they lost them, a bit of a concern. Pakistan, they got a bit tetchy, isn't they? You know, Jason Roy and Drosser, are both fine. They fielded terribly. Got a bit paranoid about the state of the ball. That was the Pakistan match. And the other day, at Hedlingley against Trulank. They really batted in a really sort of inexplicate.

way. There was no energy, but they weren't busy. Just timid really. And then a couple of guys Moali and Joffra tried to hit the ball out of the park when Stokes was going well at the other end, so that was probably a mistake as well. So it was a bit of a contrast, but all in all, a really poor batting performance on a tricky pitch, but really they should have chased 230s, no trouble at all. It wasn't the kind of batting performance that we thought coming in. We thought England will blast 300 plus every game,

and they'll get bowled out for 100 somewhere. And that will be the day that we will look up and see what they're made of the game after that. But it wasn't like that. It was a scrappy sort of 210 or whatever it worked out to be. I wonder how they'll respond from that. Having interviewed, Oh, Morgan, a couple of times about this very topic about what will you do the day you're all out for 100 in the World Cup? He was most emphatic that this side is made of sterner stuff than England teams before and that they would be able to respond.

And we've seen that historically. I don't think England have lost two one days on the bow. for about four years or something remarkable like that. So if you look at it through that prism, they haven't had an experience like Adelaide a couple of years ago where at one stage I'd lost six wickets in the first five overs or whatever it was. They haven't gone through that experience, but they have had a day where the spotlight's been on them

and they've fallen short. So it'll be fascinating to see how they bounce back against Australia because notwithstanding the fact that Australia have been mediocre in 50 over cricket for the last three and a half years, they are on a roll. Yeah. And you are right. It is going to be very interesting to see how they bounce back.

Now when it really matters, and again, we've made this point so often on here, and I make no apology for it, the World Cup is just different, especially you can get to this stage now, because if you lose, you're in trouble. And these five-match series, while you're playing again in three days' time, and that this isn't that bite that there now is. And they'd be very interesting to see if they are as confident, if they play in the same way that they have been these last four years,

or whether that has been dented by the fact they know they've got to win. they can't get something wrong. Yeah, I think the fact Adam has mentioned that England haven't lost back-to-back games before since the last World Cup. That's a really telling stat. They have the odd one-off poor performance, but by and large, the graph has been pointing dramatically upwards.

The pitch here, if it's the same sort of surface as we're having today, it should suit England and ball come. You know, 300 runs, that sort of stuff, 300 plus. So England, like high-scoring games, they'd be able to hit through the line, that sort of stuff. They get into trouble, it seems, when it's slow, tacky surface

and that sort of things, not really coming on to the bat. So the pitch will suit England, but, you know, it'll suit the Aussie as well. The Aussie top orders in phenomenal. I mean, David Warner, whatever you say about him, is the leading home school in the tournament. Well, I agree with the batting. I think I'll use your word, not too wrapped, Adam, with the Aussie bowling. I mean, when you take the first two out, Stark and Cummins, I don't see a lot behind that.

I must be honest. Yeah, but the way they performed against Bangladesh, they'll be thrilled mostly because of their supporting cast, if you like, Nathan Coultonire was much better against Bangladesh, as was Marcus Stoinus. And he is a real balancing mechanism for Australia. In the absence of Stoinus, they had to play an extra batsman and rely on Glenn Maxwell getting through 10 overs or play the extra bowler, which he did on one occasion,

and they're unbalanced up top. So I think they're far happier now that Stoinus is there and Stoinus is fit. In terms of the track, the orthodoxy in this tournament has been used two in a row. So this will be used to pitch, which will be quite interesting. What will Australia do when it comes to their school? Adam Zampa has been first choice to wrist spinner, but he took some tap against Bangladesh.

Some people say his confidence is a fraction down. Nathan Lyons in the squad. He's played a lot of cricket at lords, Nathan Lyon, the finger spinner. He's not been in the 50 over squad that often over the last four years, but I'd be surprised if they don't give him a chance on the big stage against England on a ground which he knows well. You see, we POMs are scratching our heads of us. Why he isn't playing anyway, and so are some Australians. Well, that is true, but look at the way that risk,

spinners influenced 50 over cricket over the last four years. The previous World Cup four years ago, it was Imran Tahir and Imran Tahir. Now we've got about eight of them. Most sides have a match-winning wrist spinner. And Adam Zampa, to be fair to him, in 2016 and 2017, was right towards the top of the pops in terms of wickets taken across the world in 50 over cricket. So he did lose his spot in the side 18 months ago, 40s way back in. But I understand why they want a wrist spinner, but now getting to the pointy end of the tournament,

they might have to pick their best spinner. spinner Australia has got and it's had for the last well since Shane Warren finished playing international cricket is Nathan Lyon so that will be very tempting yeah you see much of the Aussies John I see a couple of games

I saw them play the West Indies at Trent Beach which was one of the best games I've seen actually I should have lost that game yeah they should they were I mean two or three occasions the windies had them I think 70 for five and then when the windies were batting need you know run a ball but yeah I think the Aussies are going pretty well

I mean I just mentioned the one the leading one school in the tournament you know all the attention on him I mean, fair play to him. And Steve Smith, I mean, he's not a sort of bucket of runs, but he made a hundred in that warm-up game against England, you know. So you can't say they've buckled under the pressure of coming back into the international fold. Warner's batting differently, though, isn't he, don't you think? He is, yeah, he's playing with him.

So I think he's a bit like Ben Stokes, this kind of playing in it, showing how responsible they can be. Stokes had his problems in Bristol, and since he's come back, he's played it in a lower-key way as a batsman. He's not smashing it. He's not so dynamic. He's trying to pay, well. I'm obviously badly, you know, we saw that the other day at Hellingley.

And Warner likewise, I mean, he exploded towards the end against Bangladesh. But by and large, he took his time. And I think that's why just him trying to show, look, I've had my troubles, all the sandpaper business, that's behind me now. I'm now a very responsible batsman. Do you think he can't really show his natural aggressive self while he's batting? And so therefore he isn't as pugnacious out in the middle? I mean, even his celebration the other day when he got his high.

against Bangladesh. It looked like I had to sort of think about it first. And then, okay, then he leapt in the air and gave it the usual stuff. But it wasn't the sort of chest beating David Warner that we know and love. It's a very interesting talking point. Lawrence Booth put in his editor's notes for the Wisden Amidak this year that he saw a change in Ben Stokes when he returned to the side. And what John's saying there, I do see it as being analogous.

But having said that Warner's own critique of his batting at the moment is that he's just been out of form. He just sees it as a simple rhythm thing So when he was batting better He saw the greener pitch they played on down in Taunton Where he made his first hundred of the World Cup As being to his advantage Because it meant that he could block out everything else As an opening batsman on a green top

You don't have room to consider the other variables You just got to get through the tough patch at the start Muhammad Amir ball beautifully that day as well He's got his elbow issue Is that? That's power Yeah You can definitely see that I mean he can still hit the ball

Square of the Wicket Long But he's not targeting straight down Down the ground he's happy to punch and take the singles on offer. So he may not be at the peak of his powers, but he's got more runs than anyone in the tournament. And the other thing I'd say about Warner is he seems extremely happy. I mean, he's a complicated guy.

Not for a moment going to sit here and tell you anything other than that. He's one of the most complicated people I've met in my life. But when he's happy, when he feels like the winds at his back, he's a compelling personality. And he feels at the moment as though he has got the wind in his back. So I wouldn't be surprised if this is the same. start of something, not just a, you know, especially the fact that he's been able to make bulk runs through a period where he hasn't been batting particularly well, as you say.

Available every day during the Cricket World Cup. This is the TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live. Right, thanks John and thanks Adam. Very much looking forward to being back here on Tuesday on air at 9.30 for all the build-up. Before that on Monday, it's Bangladesh against Afghanistan at the Hampshire Bowl. A Bangladesh win will add that little bit of extra pressure on England in the race for the semi-final spot. Now it's time for the second of four chats we've done for the podcast

sitting down with James Anderson about the World Cups he played in and where they all went wrong. The conversation about 2003 and the chaos surrounding the decision to boycott the group fixture in Harare featured in our podcast from June the 9th on the 11th day of the tournament if you want to listen back to that. But now we're going to hear about 2007 in the Caribbean and that infamous pedalo incident with Andrew Flintoff.

I mean it was an eye-opener for me because I don't think I've been on a cricket tour and anything that really made the papers like that did. Say it was a distraction, you know. When something like that happens, you have meetings on the back of it, disciplinary meetings and things that happen on top of just the publicity that it's getting.

So within the team, it actually is a distraction. You know, it wasn't just Freddie on that tour. You know, including myself, a few of us, were out too late, two days before a game, and that got brought up as well. it was a bit of a distraction and didn't really help our sort of preparations for that

tournament. You came off the back of a 5-0 ashes to feed England this is, then beat Australia in the ODI. So what do you remember of England's hopes and where you thought you stood going into that West Indies World Cup? Well, it was a strange winter really, so we won that

tournament, but I remember Paul Collingwood getting a couple of hundreds towards the end of the Tri Series in Australia and I think he got 70 in the last game as well to get us home and we you know people came in like Paul Nixon came into the team Mal Loy was in that team as well but he didn't go to the World Cup so it's kind of a bit inexperienced but obviously experienced players but internationally not a huge amount especially not a World Cup and then Ed Joyce I think got 100 in that Tri-series competition but

then didn't open the bat in at the start of the World Cup Andrew Strauss did so there's a bit of chopping and changing and you know you look at the england side now and the biggest strength is that their top seven is in pretty much concrete you know they they are very settled they know what their strongest team is and i think that our part of our problem in that world cup was that we didn't really know what our strongest team was and do you remember feeling that as well feeling unsettled i don't we don't really know what's going on here and yeah and i mean i wasn't in the sort of management circles or the type you know I didn't really I didn't really know what was going on with selection but as a younger player it makes you sort of wonder what they're thinking with you know if they're

just you know Ed Joyce gets 100 four games ago and now he's not playing in the world cup it sort of you do scratch your head and it makes you yeah it just sort of doesn't make you feel secure or safe in the knowledge that you're going to you're going to play even if you put in good performances and this this is the big one this is a world cup and you don't make maybe feels if you're getting that right support, made it feel good about yourself. So, I mean, in the Super 8s beat Ireland, of which Owen Morgan played for Ireland, and Ed Joyce, of course, played for England, lost a close game to Sri Lanka, off the last ball, lost to Australia, beat Bangladesh, lost to South Africa,

already out by the time you played the West Indies and Brian Lara's last game. Of those matches, which are the ones that maybe stand out for you? So I broke my finger before the tournament started, and I had to have injected each game and I just remember the pain every time the ball hit my hand that's something that sticks with me so the game's not so memorable

but the pain was but I think I remember the first time I play with Stuart Broad was on that trip I don't know if it was I think it was the West Indies game and we were backing together at the end and managed to get home

which was a nice way to end a pretty disappointing series series. Michael Vaughner was captain. There'd be question marks over the captaincy and whether Michael was going to continue that sort of thing. Again, the mood in the England camp during that World Cup? Average at best. I think Duncan Fletcher actually said he was calling it a day at the end of that. So he told us sort of halfway through, which again came with mixed sort of reactions. A lot of the senior players who had grown close to him were visibly upset about the fact that he was stepping down and you had the younger players who were

not that bothered about it so that you know quite happy that he was moving on so there's yeah again just things going on that we maybe took our eye off what actually mattered in that series looking back are you at all resentful of the fact that they were big I mean you've gone on and achieved what you've achieved but these are big global events for which the memory's just a little bit tinge with a little bit of missed opportunity

yeah well I think if you look back at the The teams we had, we probably weren't the strongest team in the competition, but we should have been qualifying for the latter stages. And we never made a semi-final, never really got close to a semi-final. And that's a disappointment. We were better than the showing that we gave, certainly in all four World Cups that I played in. I think I'm hopeful now. It is disappointing not being involved now with a team that has got every chance of going quite far.

Available every day during the Cricket World Cup. This is the TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live. So finally, let's continue with our challenge to have a listener in every country in the world. Listeners in Africa, we need you. If you're living, working in or travelling through any of the following countries, get in touch for our TMS at BBC.co.com. UK and put podcast in the title. Go on, Andy. Read out the list of where we want people to get in touch. Now, these are the countries we need you from Algeria, Benin, Burkina Faso, Burundi,

the Central African Republic, Chad, Congo, Djibouti, Equatorial, Guinea, Eritrea, Eswate, formerly known as Swaziland, Gabon, the Gambia, Guinea, Guinea, Guinea, Bissor, Libya, Sudan, Togo, or Tunisia. If you are in any or all of those countries or are prepared to whiz round, all of them on an extremely fast motorcycle, please do. That's a lot of countries, though, reminds you, actually, how many countries are in Africa, isn't it? Okay, a few of your emails then. Roderick Brazier, hello from the Australian High Commission in Honiara, Solomon Islands. enjoying your coverage very much, especially the Ritual English self-flagellation after the Sri Lanka loss. Let's not blame anyone, but how about Mowin's shot?

England still favourites for me, the best balanced team in the World Cup. Now it's time for Queensland to pick New South Wales in the state of origin. That's come around again, has it? Go the Maroons, he says. There's been less self-flagellation than usually at this stage of a World Cup. You've lost about four games by now. Yeah, that's true. Simon Lack says I've been listening to you from Stavanger in Norway

whilst rigging a spool piece for loading into a vessel to be implicated. placed subsea at 1,000 metres depth. That's a spool piece. Aggers, you are asking the wrong person. Normally I'm putting it over the side of the vessel, so this was a bit different from me. Well, I mean, I think we've all learned something today, Agas, about what to do with spool pieces.

Well, except we don't know what it is. No, but let's guess, shall we? I don't know, is it? I mean, it sounds like it's got something that's going to have a wire around it, isn't it? Yes, a spool. But why you'd want it a thousand meters below sea level? Anyway, fortunately, your broadcasted, Simon, have kept me happy while I'm

Very long cable, maybe, is it? Who knows? Joseph, I'm listening to the pod from Hampton Cove, Alabama. In southeastern USA, I've followed England for years. My family thing is a rather odd pastime. But England provided lots of entertainment over those years. A lot of comedy and tragedy, yes. But entertainment, nonetheless.

Anna Halford says, I think you're still after a listener in Cameroon, in which case I'm happy to help after a patchy start with the grass of internet connection. I've now got my routine going so I can listen to the podcast while running, which helps take the mind of the brutal uphill bits of Yaundi. At work, I can then amuse myself by updating predominantly francophone colleagues on the day's action. Well, that's right. Convert Francophones to cricket. Yeah, we'll play goalsworth.

Well done, Anna. Well, don't do everyone for getting in touch of this. Many thanks to all of you. Enjoyed downloading the podcast as we go. As we battle on tomorrow, it's Southampton, Bangladesh against Afghanistan, and then, well, just speaking entirely parochially, of course. But the big game, isn't it? England against Australia here at Lords. It looks if it is going to be on a fresh pitch and not the one that was used today,

which saw Pakistan take the points and knock South Africa out. The TMS podcast at the Cricket World Cup. Download and subscribe via the BBC Sounds app for a new episode every day.