Test Match Special - CWC Day 32: Bairstow shines as England revive World Cup hopes

Episode Date: June 30, 2019

Jonathan Agnew, Michael Vaughan, Prakash Wakankar, Vic Marks and Andy Zaltzman discuss England’s crucial 31-run win over India at Edgbaston in the Cricket World Cup. Meanwhile, Aggers chats to Google chief executive Sundar Pichai and we make further inroads into our quest to find a listener to this podcast from every country in the world.

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Kappledov going back, catches it. The captain has scored the winning run for Sri Lanka, who have won the World Cup for the first time. And Tevido Brown from nowhere has scored the fastest 100 in World Cup history. There's a mix-up. Oh, there could be a runner. There will be a run-out. It's a tie.

Australia is in the final. Hello, I'm Jonathan Agnew at Edgebaston, where England have beaten India by 31 runs, and what for them was pretty much a must-win World Cup match. England posted 337 for 7 from their 50-overs. Johnny Beirsto, top scoring with 111 before restricting India to 306 for 5. The result means that if England defeat New Zealand in their final group game on Wednesday, they will be through to the semifinals. Well, later on, I'll be speaking to the Google, chief executive.

and great cricket fan, Sunder Pichai, and I'll be ticking off another country as listeners around the world continue to get in touch and tell us where they've been listening to this podcast. But there's one place to start today here at Edgeburton as Michael Vaughn and I look back on a crucial match for England.

The TMS podcast, available every day during the Cricket World Cup. Let's just start, Michael, with a bit of a recap. Well, hey, everyone was a bit anxious this morning. Yeah, absolutely. That's been a tremendous performance. Yes, they've batted first, and it's been chasing

that's been the problem for England in the World Cup. But I just thought earlier they just looked different. Jason Roy walking out there with his great body language. Johnny Berstow coping very well with the pressure that he's brought on over the course of the last few days. And, you know, I think they played

the centre. The Jasbit Bun was obviously the key to India's bowling early on and they just played him out and all of a sudden the spinners came on and they went on the attack and they bullied those two spinners. The tremendous pair of Kaldip Yadav and Javinda Chihal. the field, I just thought they were smart.

I thought they bowed some clever deliveries. You never, ever felt that India were ahead of the game. They had that one terrific partnership between Roit Sharma and Virek Kali, where I think we all started to get a little bit nervous, and Hardik Panji started hitting a few boundaries, and Rishab Panos showed a little bit of promise, but they were

always chasing the game. I mean, you're chasing 338, I don't care who you are. In a World Cup, it's very, very difficult. I mean, they have got Sharma, who's brilliant, who's dropped from four today. Coley of course probably the best batterer in the world I still can't help

feel it still feels a bit light on batting to me though yeah well you just saw over the last five or six overs that they didn't find the range they didn't find the power they're very dependable on that top three and that top three could win in the World Cup they have done it before in 2011 but I do think they'll get challenged

where that middle you know the engine room will have to get them out of a hole and today was potential that chance and they couldn't quite find the power or the finesse or the skill to be able to put the England bowlers under pressure. But full credit to Owen Morgan and his team because, you know, they'd arrived this morning knowing,

knowing that, you know, they had to chase again. They'd probably have to chase quite a big score because the pitch was playing well. And, you know, they got the opportunity to bat and they batted well. And in the field, they looked better. They kind of hunted impacts. Took one or two good catches.

And I thought they were clever with the ball in hand. Liam Plunk, it deserves a lot of credit. Back into the side, and he made a big, big difference. And back into the side, Jason Roy, I mean, hasn't batted for three weeks. it's got a questionable hamstring and in that first over he played that beautiful square drive and it was as if he'd never been away

but everything just seemed to click yeah he's got ultimate belief in his own ability and that's what you have to have at this level he didn't feel because he got a hit on the arm it was a good hit on the arm an England fan because he didn't have to go and do 50 overs in the field he's got ice on it I saw him walk out to shake the players and he had a bit of ice on that

I missed the incident yeah I think you know his challenge will come of England have to field first. And that'll be England's challenging the next game if New Zealand win the toss and bat first. Can England chase down targets? They've struggled so far to do so in the World Cup. But the confidence that the win today against an outstanding Indian size

should bring the team going up to Durham should be immense. Johnny Beirstow's the man of the match and he's with Sanjay Man Draco. Superbending's well played. Thanks a lot, yeah. Obviously to win the toss and to bat first it was important that we set a platform and assess the conditions. Is it fair to say that you can come up with such performances once you get things off your chest, just relaxes you a little bit to put in these kind of performances?

Look, I think it's been frustrating a little bit for the guys. Obviously, we know how well we can play, but today we were a pretty good bat ball and in the field, and I think that there's still things we can improve on going forward to New Zealand next week. And your batting especially against spin, you know, I mean, it was wonderful. We were looking at it, your footwork and the choice of shots is. well. Was there a general plan to be aggressive, especially against people like Chehalen Kuldeep, or it was just reacting to every ball? Yeah, I think just reacting to each ball. I think that having been over to the IPL and worked

with EVS definitely helped someone with his knowledge and experience of going about building an innings, especially against spin in all conditions. The basic principles were the same. So it wasn't necessarily a game plan, but obviously they bowled well up front and the ball did did bits. We saw it nipping around and a couple of inside edges went for four. So you ride, you look a little bit and yeah, then you try and capitalize when you can. And of course England back to their trusted formula of going out there, getting the big score and winning. Must give you a sense of confidence because it was not really coming together in the World Cup, but today it did. Yeah, it did, yeah.

I mean, as I said, it was the closest to a complete performance that we've had in the competition. but we also know now we've got three must-win games in the next few weeks so we go to Durham next against New Zealand obviously we've had a fantastic World Cup so far on the back of this performance and we'll be looking to build on this well played today congratulations in the win

and all the best for that match against New Zealand cheers thanks a lot well Johnny Bastow I see the ECB media liaison manager hovering quite close it's in case Johnny had a few more things to say there he's had a funny old week Johnny Basto I don't think people necessarily agreed, but I know they didn't,

with some of those comments that he made about people wanting England to lose. It's ridiculous. I know what he was on there. A rather more measured there, but I mean, well, hey, look, he's come back, he's got a hundred and the world moves on. Well, no, he played great.

Yeah. He set the tone with Jason Roy, and you could just see with the steel in his eyes that, you know, he knew that he had to put in a performance. He knew that the team had to put in a performance and full credit to him and Jason Roy, because the opening partnership this morning was always going to be crucial.

For England to get a big score, they needed that platform. They needed to get the 50 to North, then 100 for naught. And that's generally what they've done over the course of the last four years. They've created foundations to go on and get the big scores.

They've been two or three down early. You know, it'd have been a real tricky day for the England side. So full credit to Johnny Berstow, he's let his bat do the talking. He's better at that. The TMS podcast at the Cricket World Cup. So England take the points.

It means it move above Pakistan again now. So 10 points for England, 9 points to Pakistan, and 7 points to Bangladesh. Now, we're also keeping an eye on Bangladesh, of course, because they've got India to play on the second. So that's not very long, is it, as far as the India is concerned? And then there's that game. It still feels important that Bangladesh against Pakistan at Lord,

on Friday game. That actually was originally slated to be a day-nighter. So if you're going to that, just check, because it is now a day-game. But certainly the initial fixtures had that game as a day-night match, but it isn't. It's a day game. Prakash is alongside me. Do you agree that I just felt the Indian batting just still seems a little bit light to me? I mean, you've got some, you know, obviously wonderful players at the top there,

but it's not quite the dead. Well, absolutely. I mean, you look at the last four in this Indian team from a batting perspective. if there really nobody there you could count on for anything. I mean, Shami, Boomra and the two spinners. They don't do much with the bat.

And which is, I think, one of the reasons why the middle order problem becomes even more accentuated. Because we've seen this in, what, three games now, including this one, I'm not suggesting they weren't trying to chase the runs down, but you see when Doni...

It didn't feel like it, though, they sort of decide that, okay, now we've got to play cautiously, and then only in the last couple of hours, we'll see what we can do. So we do have a problem. Yeah. It is a problem.

Yeah, it's really, really odd. But anyway, that, I mean, I know you're looking at it from an Indian perspective, of course. That's the first defeat for India in this World Cup. We make any difference to them, do you think? I think it's, honestly, I think it's very good because I think, you know, you go into the, finish the league phase with all wins, you sort of riding high, and then you've got to play those two crunch games. I think it's good to be exposed.

I think the Indian quicks were. were decent but not penetrative enough. The spinners got taken for 160 runs today between them and that will be a lesson. Yes, that will be a lesson. They'll have to think where to bowl and I think India will take some lessons. I think on balance it's a good result

for the tournament. It's a great result for England and I don't think it's a terrible result for India because they have two teams that they would like to believe they can beat. The TMS podcast at the Cricket World Cup. Jonathan, I've got Jason Roy standing alongside me.

Welcome back, first of all. It must have been nice to get out there and get a score again. Of course, yeah, great to be back out of that with Johnny, putting together another good partnership and kind of writing a few wrongs from the last two games we've played. A pretty solid all-round performance, I would say. How hard was it to sit there watching what happened against Sri Lanka and then against Australia?

Yeah, horrible, very frustrating. But it was just one of the, I needed to stay positive. Stay positive for the team and for myself as well. I knew if I worked out, I'd be back on the pitch, so I'm happy I was back on there today. We had your friend Sam Billings with us on 5'5 a bit earlier on, yeah, and he was saying that you were raring to go. You were ready to go at Lords and they said, no, wait. Yeah, I mean, there was probably the smart decision not to go at Lords. I was obviously raring to go, but with hamstrings, you get a lot of kind of false sense of security with hamstrings.

So I felt good, but the medical department said no, and scan suggested I'd give it a few more days. So it worked out to be for the best, so happy days. So batting with Johnny, you obviously compliment each other really well. Did it feel good again back there? Yeah, of course. Yeah, yeah. It's good for him to go and get a good score as well. Leading into a very crucial part of the tournament, nice for him to get some confidence. And he looked very good. What about yourself, though? Did you feel confident? Did you feel good straight away?

I felt great. I've been netting really hard this week and putting a lot of work in, a lot of mental preparation as well. So once I got that cover drive away, I felt pretty comfortable and set. It was a really nice feeling today. And let's not play this down because, of course, this is India, the new number one team in the world, overtaking you in the last week. So this was always going to be a hard game. And actually, even 337 for 7 didn't look under,

it looked like they might catch up there at one point. Yeah, of course. They're obviously a very strong side. Probably deserve to be number one. They've played some good cricket consistently. But like I said, it's now time for us to win the next three games and lift the trophy. How's your arm? Saw.

Put it simply, very sore. Jasper Buma's got a bit of pace on him, so hit me quite hard, but just ice and rest is nothing too sinister, so we're all good. Yeah, so you just decided, it was decided that you weren't going to feel? Yeah, it was decided. I couldn't really use my hand as well as a good, and obviously being my right hand as well,

it's obviously quite important in the field, using that to throw, so I wasn't able to use it fully, so obviously it's a smart decision on the field. A little bit of rest and ready to go again. at Chesterler Street on Wednesday. That's it. Travel up to Durham, start again. That's all we have to do. Well done, Jason. Thank you very much, indeed.

All right. Thank you very much. Thank you, Eleanor. And I'm glad that his hands going to be okay. Anyway, he's shaking hands are right down there now. So I assume that Jason Roy is okay. But nice to hear from him. He played really well today. Chris Wilkesy down there as well.

He had a really good day today. Fantastic catch. Right, let's go back down to the pitch side then. And Stefan Schemelt is there. Chris, welcome to the TMS podcast. Be honest. What's better? performance when you start with three successive maidens or taking a diving catch on the

boundary? Probably a brilliant diving catch on the boundary. I mean it's nice to take three maidens up top but wickets win your games don't they and you know an important player like Pan we know we know he's dangerous and you can clear the fences especially going into last 15 overs of an inning so yeah really pleased that I just clung on to be nice really pleased what's it like to put in a performance like that on your home ground in a must win game at the World Cup? Yeah, it was an amazing feeling. I suppose I had a little bit of funny feeling

coming here today, actually, because I haven't played a huge amount of one day international, so it's probably only my second. So yeah, a bit of a strange feeling being at home and obviously with a large Indian crowd behind their team. It's a little bit strange, but obviously really pleased to put in a strong performance as a team and individually as well to get the win,

you know, a really important performance from the lads. And what about that performance with the ball up against such a strong India batting line up and players of the quality of Virac Koli and Roit Sharman? Yeah, really pleasing. Again, they're world-class players and you can't give them an inch. So I think that's what's probably so pleasing

with the way we bowled at the top, myself and Joffra. We didn't give them any freebies, held a good length, and could have easily had a couple more wickets really. So that was really important, and that was probably the most pleasing of my performance today. performance today was that, you know, that set the tone at the top, which was good.

Just take us inside the dressing room what's happened over the past few days since that defeat against Australia, knowing that you had to win today and again on Wednesday to stay in the World Cup? Yeah, I think, you know, we put pressure on ourselves, haven't we, by losing the last two games, you know, in particular the Sri Lankan game, which we know we should have got over the line. We still had the belief that we can, and we still do have the belief that we can go all the way in this tournament, but, you know, today was a big test for us against, you know, class in the inside, who haven't been beaten yet in this World Cup, you know, with obviously

a lot of noise around us and stuff, which is, you know, it's part and past love it all, to focus on what we had to do, which was the process of playing a good 100 over game. To do that, it's really pleasing. The TMS podcast, available every day during the Cricket World Cup. Vic Marks is alongside. I'm a little bit anxious when I last saw him, but that not necessarily is because there's a deadline, do you, but it's always the deadline. But we've got to, I mean, we have to listen to Prakash who's been telling us all day.

He told me at breakfast that England were going to win. And I've been fretting all day in my unbiased sort of way. But it was a curious end, wasn't it? Because all the way through you thought this is going right to the death. And then Pandia and Pant went in quick succession. And sort of Doni more or less decided, I think, well, we can't win this game. So we better just make sure our net run rate is up to scratch, a slightly disappointing end to what has been

a riveting day's play at Edgston I mean it's it's been a great venue heaving stands let's join Eleanor again she got Ben Stokes down there yes I have we talked to one of the heroes of the opening partnership Jason Roy but Ben Stokes without you in the middle of the innings that total would not have happened I'm guessing

I think you know the way that the two guys up top managed to set a platform for us to come in and play like that in the middle you know having the the skill level in the sort of enforceful figure of Jason Royback and the team's obviously a massive boost for us and him and Johnny feed off each other and when they start going they're very, very hard to stop.

So is it a calming influence on the rest of the dressing room when you see the two of them getting into their stride like they did? Yeah, I think especially when you... I mean, it's a tricky one because we were all thinking up there in the changing room that they're making it look very, very easy so we always had that in the back of our minds

when we were first going out and it was actually quite a difficult wicket to start on but the start of those two got us off to allowed us in the middle to sort of go out and play in the manner that we did. It felt like you pressed the reset button to where you were before the Sri Lanka game. Did it feel like that to you? As a team? Yeah. I wouldn't necessarily say reset.

I think we just, you know, the way that we think about our cricket is we always just try and keep on being that positive mindset, whatever we do. It would be very easy to slip into a slightly worried and negative place, but we would. wouldn't be able to come out here and play like that today if we had any of those thoughts in our head. Looking forward to New Zealand on Wednesday. You team you know, place you know. Yeah, it's always a great team to play against New Zealand and with being at my home ground. It's a very exciting time but you know we still got, it could be a very, very important game but hopefully we can continue what we did today there. Great stuff then. Thank you very much. Thanks, cheers. In quite an anonymous sort of way, Ben Stokes is having a terrific tournament.

He hasn't got the hundreds, but he's now got three or four, 80s. at vital times and he is playing the senior citizens role he's adapting his game to the situation sometimes he's had to really dig in like against Sri Lanka today he was there

making sure that England didn't squander that start but we needed an acceleration or England did Root was struggling to provide it but he provided it to ensure that target of 3.38 at times we thought they were going to get 3.50 360 didn't we but he made sure that England didn't squand

under that total or that start. So he's in, you know, he's become a vital member. He bowled pretty well, although he got a bit attacked towards the end. Do you think that people will, and then actually England will now believe that actually they're back on track again? I'm just going to watch Owen Morgan. He's handing a microphone over and I wonder if he's going to come over to Eleanor who's moving in swiftly there.

She's like a fullback heading in for a, to tackle the opposite centre who's running through the line. victory, do you, rugby, do you? Well, I do, but I've never really seen Ellie as a sort of archetype on number 12-stroke 13, or even 15, for that matter, but she is hovering, but at the moment, she hasn't quite got him, but if anyone's going to do it, she will. No, Eleanor will. I think we're next in line, so he's just doing a little bit of something else there to somebody's phone. I mean, it's been a really good performance, and he's a very mature man in these situations, is his own form at the moment, because suddenly, He's been peppered by short balls. He's bans, yes, absolutely. And he keeps getting out to him. And the Kiwis won't have missed that.

So, but that, I mean, the great thing for him, though, it's been a tough week for England because the scrutiny has been on them. And they've come out, and essentially they've given a gutsy performance against the best side up until now in the tournament. Ellen's moving in, she's gone in by the ankles. I would never do anything as disrespectful as that to the England Captain Agers, as you know. Oh, a nice piece to camera, by the way. A little bit of social media commitments?

Yeah, a couple of social media commitments. Obviously, it wasn't all about the cricket today. You know, UNICEF's one day for children, making the most of quite a significant day for cricket, India against England's raising money in a magnificent way, and hopefully it feeds its way down to the people who need it the most. But a great winter day for England, let's face it. Nice to see you with a smile on your face and a smile on your collective faces as well.

Was it ever in doubt out there for you? I think after the first innings, I thought it was absolutely outstanding effort. And I think even after the substantial partnership up front, you know, guys like Johnny Berstow and Jason Roy can make the wicked look flat no matter at what stage. But it actually wasn't. If you watch the balls in between that they weren't hitting, actually two-paced, some bouncing twice through to the keeper,

some taking purchase with putters. You know, we always felt confident if we could get upwards of 300. it would be a really, really tough chase. I thought India came out and played extremely well. We bowled well, but India counted that different stages. Rohit, obviously, and Virat, the substantial partnership, but I thought we held her cool towards the end, and it was just a few too many.

What was it like fielding with the noise around you like that? Because this is a bowl, this place, isn't it? It echoes around. It does, and, you know, they get magnificent support. It is always loud. It just means you haven't got much of a voice. at the end of the game. But it's great to play in front of.

When you're playing from the crowds like this, whether they're for or against you, the atmosphere is always electric. Well, it means that you've still got it in your own hands. So New Zealand at Durham on Wednesday, it would be a very different challenge that. How are you feeling about that now? Yeah, excited about it.

And I think better for today's run out. The fact that we played and the way we did is closer to the way that we play naturally. Obviously, having Jason back in the side and was great, but Johnny going and playing unbelievably well on a wicket like that and playing as free-flowing as that and I actually think the winning and the losing it again

is probably from 10 overs to 20 that spell where they put on about 95 in about 10 or 11 overs and the two big threats for the Indian side the two spinners were put on the real pressure and that's not easy to do as a player trust me and I thought that that just set things up nicely even if we went

at a run a ball from there I thought we would have a really good really good score on the board but to post 340 is pretty good. Johnny let loose with the bat today. Let loose with his mouth a little bit earlier in the week. Do you think that that maybe motivated him a little bit? Did it do anything? Was it good?

Was it bad for the team? Were you just saying, yeah, that's Johnny? Everything's been pretty chilled. Johnny works himself up like that for most innings because that's what makes him tick. He's a magnificent player, as we've seen here today. So to score 100 like that is pretty match winning for us. Well, Dan, I'm and look forward to seeing you and Darren.

look forward to her. Thanks, guys. He didn't sound rather more cheerful, that, didn't he? I mean, he has to come out face the press and put on a cheerful face and not sound in any way concerned about the way that England would apparently going, but it's nice for being able to come out and give a positive. Yeah, well, the situation

allowed him to do that. I mean, we get oversensitive to it, and perhaps they do sometimes. I mean, I got frustrated by him, I think, before the Australia match, Owen Morgan said, one of those occasions where I actually went to a press conference. Was it? Yeah, yeah. Didn't ask a question, though, didn't ask you.

No, no. And I was listening away, and I was, he was saying, this is just like any other game, we're not at all nervous, really. It's just like, and I know that's not the case. It was Australia in the World Cup, at Lord's, critical game. And I thought, you're not kidding me. And I don't think, who are you trying to kid? However, what you have to say here, they turned up at Edgiston, pressure on, a must-win game, really.

I mean, who knows what the situation will be when we get to Chester the Street, but there was a scenario where England would have been out of the tournament. if they'd lost this game. Absolutely. They now go there. Everything is still in their hands, as we discussed earlier on this morning, and they've produced a gutsy performance.

Because there was pressure out there. I know they got that wonderful big total from that terrific start from the openers. But, you know, when Koli and Sharma were going, they were accelerating. They're two huge players. They know how to win games. There was tension out there.

And when they, then, having, route having dropped one catch, when the chances came, they took them, Plunkett kind of cundered something, and they stayed pretty calm throughout. So it was an excellent, gutsy performance from England. And as we've sort of said all along, if England play well, they can beat anyone. Roy's presence there, I mean, he's the last person you'd think of to be reassuring because he plays some exotic shots.

But when he sets that innings off, he does not make it simpler. Not only for Bears to, who seems to love batting with him, But for those coming later, they could afford to have 10 overs where they just got 25 runs because they had that blistering start. So the great thing for us is they're still in the tournament and the tournament gets better and better. Funny enough, I looked about 10 days ago at doing Pakistan, Bangladesh at Lords on Friday, and it didn't fill me with a huge amount of excitement. There's lots of good cricket around.

A great cricket lover like yourself? But now, no, it's a contest. But now suddenly that is a game. I mean, England, my word, are we wanting Bangladesh to win that? all the good games, because I'm just building myself for Afghanistan against the West Indies and Leeds. That's going to be a little belta. You'll enjoy that one day.

No, but there's some terrific games now. Bangladesh. You're right. The Bangladesh games are critical. Technically, does Sri Lanka, they're still unjust, with an unlikely chance to do it. Yes, they've only got six. They've got two games in hand. Andy Zaltzman, sitting patiently to my left.

Hello, Agas. England's, well, returning to form batting first. And, Interesting to look at the start of their rings, they're only 47 off 10 overs, and by my reckoning 13 of them at least, possibly 15, had come off the edge. So it was that 10-over period. After Roy could have been given out, would have been 49 for 1 at the end of the 11th.

They then hit, I think, 111 in the next 11-5 overs before Roy was out, and that really turned the game. They've now scored over 310, 11 of the last 14 times that they've batted first, and they've reached 335, 9 of the last 14, 6 in a row over 310. So you won't catch Morgan saying, actually we love chasing. No, it's worth mentioning that court behind those, isn't it? Down the leg side, a little flick of the glove. He'll have felt it, and then they didn't review it.

They look back at that and think, well, Adonis had a strange match, hasn't he? He didn't review that? He didn't review that. And then he reviewed the situation at the end and thought we can't get these, so he sort of stopped trying. Had a bit of a net. And you thought the other thing that might be decided, if we'd spend our time doing this, don't we, was when Joe Root dropped Sharma and then Sharma got going, got 100, but in the end, that wasn't the critical moment. Yeah.

Who knows? If they had reviewed that, perhaps someone else would have come in and blasted a 50 or a 60 Butler or someone. But it seemed like a critical moment, didn't it? But possibly the critical moment in the Sri Lanka game was when Root was caught down the leg side, wasn't given, and Sri Lanka looked like they weren't going to review it, and then did, and he was out, and it all went from there. So it's funny how these turning points happened. Well, it was a terrific effort by Jason Roy. Yeah.

It just felt like it was sort of just resetting everything again. It is. I mean, he did lots of things extremely well, but to get a bang on the hand was also a brilliant piece of batsmanship, so he didn't have to field. Because he batted as if he'd never been away, but he's running between the wickets, you could tell. He's not 100% fit, but don't worry, they'll play him on Wednesday. Yeah. Do you agree? I mean, I looked at India earlier in the tournament, I thought, potential World Cup winners here.

I didn't quite feel that they would look that way today. I know, I mean, Shama got 100, and Koli got runs, but I didn't feel that there was that sort of that great depth of Indian batting that we're used to. No, there isn't, and they know that. And that's why they, at number eight, the tail starts at eight, which is why in this tournament up until now they have essentially batted very cautiously or carefully at the start of their innings

because they know they need their batsmen still around in the last 10 because, you know, shammy downwards are not great cricketers. The difference, I suppose, is that, A, they had no option but to go for it today. Also, for the first time, those two lovely wrist spinners got hammered. And that was down to Bearstow and Roy setting the tone. They actually dragged it back a little bit

the left arm, the Yadav dragged it back. And that left Koli a bit naked. He had nowhere to go, because he hasn't got much support bowling. He didn't use Yadav who bowls these quirky off-breaks. So England so often derided for being poor players of spin actually damaged India more than they could have anticipated by attacking brilliantly the wrist-spiners. 13-6s to 1, wasn't it?

It was unusual. It was, and I was saying right at the end of the game, if Doni hadn't hit that slightly pointless six in the last over, it would have been only the, I think, third time since 2006, Indra batted through 50 overs without hitting a six. And I wonder if they need to bring Ravidja Dajah into the team, because, you know, he's a terrific low-law of batsman. It just feels like they are lacking a bit there, doesn't?

This tournament, we've seen in the rankings before the tournament, so many wrist-binners in the top ten, and they haven't really been a major factor. You won, and finger, where's finger spin? We've seen Nathan Lyon coming in for Australia doing very well. Even Dan and Jada Silver in that game for Sri Lanka against him. You won the whether India would be stronger with Judea. Also, it means to be able to field for the full 50 overs rather than just the 49.3 that he manages as a substitute.

The TMS podcast at the Cricket World Cup. Sunda Pachai is the CEO of the internet search engine. Google, but so much besides, I mean, Chrome, Maps, Gmail, you name it. It's a remarkable story. in Chennai, in a two-room apartment, before studying engineering and working his way up after joining Google in 2004, becoming the chief executive in 2016. A huge cricket fan. His fan we didn't have a TV initially, but he fell in love with cricket listening to the BBC on shortwave radio Sunder. Love it to meet you. Oh, pleasure to be here. Greetings, but what an

amazing story. So they're the old short, I see, hey, when I started on here, the shortwave radio was still crackling through over there in Asia. We used to have listeners in, well, all sorts of, you know, weird and wonderful places because of that but unfortunately they don't do it anymore but that's how you how you fell in love with it oh very much so and uh you know i had to imagine the whole thing i couldn't quite see it no so i have fond memories with my grandfather of listening to michael holding running all the way from the boundary later i actually recently i saw the video in youtube so what i heard in radio many many years ago oh really to go back to youtube and actually watched that yeah was quite something but isn't it funny how somebody now so involved in technology you

fell in love with your major passion is it cricket you found out through the crackly old shortwave it's amazing isn't it what a transformation yeah it truly was you know brought the world to my house and so still remember it very clearly yeah it might have been Johners I think yeah probably was Gulles yeah it would have been in what 80s this was a late 70s 30 80s yeah so that's that's that's that's your that's was your kind of time period of falling love of cricket Was it with those players? It was, and then 83, when India won the World Cup.

Oh, yes. That was that kind of moment which put India on the stage and so really captured my imagination. Yeah. Talk about cricket in a minute. I want to talk about your job first, though. I can't even imagine what it must be like to be the boss of something like Google. I mean, it's just such an enormous, massive thing. How on earth do you control all of that?

I mainly focus on the products you talked about and we try to be helpful to users every day you're trying to find directions back home make it a bit easier. People ask us has anyone won World Cup cricket three times in a row? It's a question we get now, it's a high trending question. I was going to ask you about the cricket trends. Oh, is that right? Yeah. Is it possible to explain it to someone who has got absolutely no idea

like me as to how the hell it works? I mean When I key anything in, and up comes stuff that I'm supposed to believe. I mean, I think I do believe most of it that comes up. But how does it work? Can you put it in sort of a layman's terms? You know, our machines go fetch and make a copy of all the web pages available in the world, and it keeps doing that. And when you type your words in, we try to match it to the best pages out in the world.

The trick is we have to do it in milliseconds. So you type it, boom. and, you know, we try to get the results back. But, you know, we try to rank it based on what users say it's popular, and it's what we try to do. How do you know what the best web page is? You know, we try and match it to the words and see whether other people are linking to that web page.

So if you say something about a webpage and it's about cricket, you would rank it pretty highly, I'm sure. Yes. And being chief... I'm still trying to get my head around what your actual job is, because there are so many people, doing so many things how do you keep control of that

how do you physically keep control you know look there are a lot of great people you rely on very very good people and you try and focus on the things you care about but it's all about getting the right people really yes very interesting you've come just for this game haven't you

mainly yeah so it's a you know I'm a huge cricket fan and it's a real pleasure to be here and you know always I remember watching the 2005 Ashes game in Edge Baston or the 1999 semifinals, to be here and actually see it. Well, there's two famous games there. So if you're not beat to Edgeveston before?

No, it's my first time. So first time, and to... Well, it's more like Bangalore than Birmingham, isn't it? It's incredible. The support that India have is just... Well, you coming from San Francisco, to come and watch a game. But there are other people who... I was hearing about an Indian supporter

who's literally been flying backwards and forwards from the States for every game. Oh, you know, when I was coming here, the plane had quite a few people. but I see people travel all over, be it Durban, be it Sydney. Yes. You know, it's a huge traveling contingent. Tell me how you first got involved in cricket then.

So what was your first game that you watched? Oh, you know, mainly, you know, I grew up playing street cricket, but the earliest games I remember are, you know, India playing Western D's and then listening to it on radio. And, you know, I was a big Sunil Gavaskar fan growing up. You've seen him. He's just a few doors down. Oh, is he? Yes.

I'll take you down. I'll maybe go and say hello. It'll be a true, true honor. So I grew up watching it that way. That's how I got into it. Yeah. You mentioned Sonny, and I mean, I've seen him, I've worked with him a lot in India.

It's like a sort of pop star status, isn't it? I mean, people like him and Catad Dev and... It's a different level, isn't it? It's... It is like worshipping in a way. I can't imagine how it must be, but, you know, they are really popular. Street cricket always fascinates me

You said you've been playing that I mean that's how I grew up playing We didn't have access to rounds like this And so you play You kind of You know learn the game weirdly Because sometimes you can't score on the leg side So you have to move and completely score on the off

Is it different rules for different streets then? Yeah it depends on the corner And the angles you have And it also depends on whether the neighbour is friendly or not So you know Some neighbours will give you the ball back And some don't They may have dogs inside

So, you know, so you have to adjust the whole game. You make up rules and you have to stop for the cars to go through, the scooters to go through. I can imagine what it must be like. Yeah. Oh, but it was so much fun. Yeah. You know, I mean, we would all literally play until it became dark

and you couldn't quite see the ball and then you go back home in. If we were sitting here in 10 years' time and I was interviewing you about Google, what would we be talking about as being sort of new things that, you know, Where are we going to go with all this technology? You know, it's a good question. You know, who knows? Maybe these players may be wearing glasses or, you know, and they're kind of looking around and who knows how the game changes.

And 10 years from now, we call it augmented reality, but the glasses you're wearing may have some information for you. And so, you know, it's like putting what's in your phone, maybe a part of that, when you want it. And so those are the kinds of things which may come about. You can switch them on and off. You can switch them on and off, and anything you want to know, maybe the answer is right there when you want it.

What will our phones be doing in 10 years' time? Will they be literally running our lives? I hope not. I hope, you know, I always think technology should fade in the background over time, be there when you need it. Today they aren't smart enough and they demand too much of your attention. It doesn't know what, it's not aware of what you're doing. Maybe you're with your kids and, you know, it shouldn't be disturbing you.

So, you know, I hope technology gets better and less distracting and... That's interesting for you to say that, isn't that? It puts humans first and, you know, we all need to work to get there. Yeah. Oh, here are the cakes. You're what a cake? Yeah.

This is from Rachel's kitchen. They ship cupcakes anywhere. It's not Googling. Googly. Is that a Google Doodle? Not quite, but, you know, Google is the only place where Googly means something else other than what people in cricket would understand it as. Well, Sondah, thank you very much indeed for our Googly cakes.

are coming to see us and sharing your love of cricket. I'm fascinated by what you do. And I'm sure our listeners will have been as well. The TMS podcast at the Cricket World Cup. Right, well here we are at Edgebaston. Andy Zaltzman sitting alongside. We're still poring over the numbers, Andy. Well, India were only five wickets down at the end of their 50 overs.

And in World Cup cricket, only once since 1987, has a team batted throughout 50 overs and only been five wickets down when losing. I'll say, it's a curious scorecard, isn't it? Yeah. So famously, India in 1975, the very first ever day of World Cup cricket, 132 for three off 60, chasing 330 odd to win. But, yeah, it was a rather curious end by India, rather supine last few overs. We rather took the, I mean, it took a lot of the, not all of it, but it just took a bit of the finish out of it. Right, let's just go through our listeners from around the world. Then Matt has been backpacking through Suriname.

He stopped at, well, he says, my penultimate hotel before I fly to Eurogroup. Hopefully we can tick these off. I'm catching up on last week's episodes, or Suriname is a new one. And if you do get to Uruguay, Matt, let us know, and we can tick that one off too. Sally Cooper says, I've been listening to the podcast in Juba, South Sudan.

We've already got South Sudan, but if you could head north to the rest of Sudan, that is still up for grabs. Okay. Andrew, you might have Egypt, he says, but I'm currently catching up on the podcast, on the boat, in between dives, on the Red Sea. Yep, Andrew, I'm afraid we'd be ready.

have Egypt. Will Junkin gets in touch? I was in North Korea two years ago and listened to TMS via Bluetooth to the radio of my tour guide's car whilst explaining the game to them and showing photos of, showing them photos of me at the 2007 World Cup. Well, we're getting closer to having a North Korean listener, but they do have to have listened to this podcast during the World Cup not two years ago, so I'm afraid it doesn't count, but perhaps we, maybe we could have got Donald Trump to listen to it, probably stepped over the border last night. Indeed, I'd have loved every minute of it. I think he needs cricket in his life.

Good stuff. Thank you, Andrew. That's all from us today, where England have cast aside their recent poor form to defeat India by 31 runs in their crucial World Cup game at Edgebaston. If we're in the UK, you can watch highlights on the BBC Sport website and app. And we're back with another podcast tomorrow. In that, you'll hear from England's Jason Roy, who gives us a fascinating insight into the mindset of an opening batsman.

The TMS podcast at the Cricket World Cup. Download and subscribe via the BBC. BBC Sounds app for a new episode every day.