Test Match Special - CWC Day 33: The art of opening and West Indies fall short. Again.

Episode Date: July 1, 2019

After his heroics against India, England's Jason Roy takes us inside the mind of an opener. Graeme Swann and Jeremy Coney look ahead to England against New Zealand. We reflect on Sri Lanka beating West Indies in a thriller at Chester-le-Street with Sir Curtly Ambrose, and you'll hear from captain Heather Knight as England prepare to face Australia in the Women's Ashes.

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Oh, what a catch! I do not believe what I've just seen. You cannot do that. Chris won't. Australia have emphatically won their fifth World Cup. And India have caused one of the greatest upsets in the history of all sport. The captain has scored the winning run for Sri Lanka who have won the World Cup for the first time in their history. Hello, I'm Charles Dagnall and welcome to Chester La Street, the venue for England's crucial game against New Zealand on Wednesday. Will we get as much drama as we've seen today? Sri Lanka have beaten the West Indies by 233 runs. The Indies were chasing a World Cup record of 339 but fell just short.

Sir Kurtly Ambrose will join me for reaction and we'll look ahead to the start of the women's ashes. But let's begin with England. We've brought you lots of insight from the camp during the World Cup with Adol Rashid and Chris Wode. and now we've got a special interview with Jason Roy to bring you. He made quite the impact on his return from injury at Edgebaston. Well, Roy sat down with Ellie Oldroyd to take us inside the mind of an opener. From BBC Radio 5 Live. This is the TMS podcast at the Cricket World Cup.

Well, Jason Roy, welcome to the Test Match special podcast. We want to talk about what it's like to open the batting in a one day international. Let's start at the toss. You're watching Owen walking out there. Do you always want to bat? no no not at all um you want to do what's best for the team and then once you know whether you're batting or bowling then you can kind of get your head around the job um i don't put too much emphasis on what's happening at the toss i'll walk into a change room ask the lads what we're doing if we're batting

then cool i'll um stay nice and relaxed get my gear on slowly not be ready too early so i just sit there chatting chatting away really trying to like kind of dust down the nerves a bit the opener the world cup opener was probably the most testing kind of mentally I've had in my career I reckon opening game of the world cup facing the first ball of the world cup all that jazz kind of goes through your head and all you've got to keep doing is doing positive kind of imagining positive thoughts and positive shots and and so on so yeah you don't watch I don't care whether we battle bowl first I just wait and see yeah because that routine of course you're so well established with Something like a World Cup, you don't normally have the National Anthem and everything that goes around a World Cup game, do you?

No, so that was different. So the World Cup game, that opener was very different. I had a lot more time with my thoughts than I wanted. We went in a little bit early and I had a bit too much time to prep. So I just took myself away, chatted away to the physios, had a bit of a chill out with them and then started getting my pads on when I thought it was the right time. So, yeah, it is a bit different, but again, you've got to adapt. Do you have a routine, pads, protective gear, you know, how does it go? Yeah, bottom to top. I think you just start my pads more often than not, left pad first, front pad first. Box, thigh pad, move up. And then I make sure that when the umpire is on their way, or when I cross that line,

I've got all my gear on, my helmet, my pat and my gloves, bat, and I'm ready to go to work. Have you ever forgotten any of that? No, I actually haven't. I never really started my career with the thigh pad. I played second team cricket and got my contracts with Surrey and stuff, never wore a thigh pad. It wasn't until after I'd played a couple of first team games and a couple of their first team. Older guys are saying to me, what are you doing? You're mad. You're absolutely mad. I was like, no, I'll be fine. I'll be absolutely fine. And I'll be all right.

And I got hit on the inner thigh. And I almost cried. I would have been about 17, 18 years old. And I was like, I'd never want to go through this pain again. So then I started wearing a thigh pad. Does Johnny have the same routine as you if you're opening together? I don't know. I don't know what his routine is. He's got his own way of kind of dealing with the pressures and whatnot. I think he likes to take himself away a little bit more.

But we don't change right next to each other. So we just kind of go get on with our business. Chat at just about just before we're going over the rope and then go to work. So the first time, so do you talk to each other as your, obviously every place has a different setup. But if you're coming down the steps of the pavilion or wherever, do you talk to each other then? No, when we're coming down the steps of the pavilion,

We'll talk when we're on the way out, when we're walking out, and the crowd's going mad, Jerusalem's playing, and emotions can sometimes get the better of you if you let them. So it's literally the same old stuff. We say, let's enjoy it, let's have fun, get ourselves in, go big, and just kind of reassure each other that this is just another game of cricket. What's that adrenaline like when the crowd is cheering, you're starting it all off? It's bizarre, because at the start of my career, it wasn't, it was like I would play a shot and then I'd hear the crowd and whatever.

Now when I'm out there now, it's a very strange feeling. I don't hear them. I don't hear a single moment, really, until I'm probably standing on the other end. And I'm like, oh, it's actually quite loud here today. But it's an extremely nice feeling. When you get in and you go big and the crowd are going ballistic, it's, yeah,

a feeling like no other. So what do you, in an ideal world, I mean, do you like, do you always want to face first or do? Yeah, I tend to have always face first just purely because I feel like I've got to, a bit of record facing first. I don't know. It's just bizarre. I played a year with Hashi Mammler and we took it in rotation. So you notice with Quentin de Kock and himself, they rotate. Someone will take first one game, next game, the other person. So we did that for that year.

And I felt like I batted better when I took the first ball. So yeah, I've just always kind of done it. I think it's you've got to face your first ball at some stage. Why not be the first ball? at what stage when you've got started assuming that you've kind of seen out the first over the first couple of overs together is there a point where you and Johnny will come together in the middle and have a chat? Yeah, we come together after every other

and just chat away and just talk about what they're trying to achieve and it's more kind of reassuring yourself as well of what you're trying to achieve and what we're doing, how the pitch is behaving then when we get drinks brought out to us with gloves we relay messages back to the change room saying what we reckon a good score is,

how the pitch is behaving, what to look out for, where it's the target, which way the wind's blowing. So, yeah, it's just trying to stay as relax as possible, especially in World Cup games. But you only talk about cricket. You don't kind of discuss what you might have to eat later on or what's for lunch? No, no, no. Usually not.

I mean, Johnny likes to stay focused and in the games. There's not too much going on there. And he does his own thing. But I think at the end of that, when I'm on the other end, not facing, I tend to look into the crowd, see the guys having fun. And it's just nice to switch off completely and see what you're bringing to the game. You look out and you see that it gives you a really nice feeling, a nice positive feeling.

And that's what I like doing with my career. Are you taking each stage in your innings in a very kind of precise way? You're thinking, right, okay, get through the next, get to five, get to ten, get, you know. How do you break it down? No, I don't really break it down that strategically. I will kind of get out there. And if I'm feeling good, I'm feeling good. And I'll keep playing strong shots and playing nice and a great.

progressively. Sometimes I'll need a few more balls to get myself in. And it's recognising that the deeper we take the game with our firepower and our change room, we can score plenty. And it's not forgetting that and it's reassuring myself. And sometimes when I was younger, I might have to force it too early on pitches that, oh, I wasn't feeling great and then I'll try and force it. But now I just kind of take every ball as it comes. What's the key to a good opening partnership? Do you have to like your partner? You don't necessarily have to like each other. You have to work well together. But it does help. if you do like each other, of course. And I guess if you feed off each other, give each other feedback, making sure that you're looking after each other. I think you have to know each other pretty well. I think you have to know what your partner likes.

And then apart from that, just, yeah, nice and aggressive. So that's Jason Roy with Ellie Aldroyd. I'll be speaking to Graham Swan and Jeremy Coney about England's final group game with New Zealand in a moment. But first, let's hear from England's other opener, Johnny Beirstow. Now, Birstow capped an eventful few days with a century against India at Edgebast. and he's been clarifying the comments he made about the support for this England side. What's going on this week was a round table interview and obviously quotes and everything

and they all get sent off and people interpret them the way they want, but the mood in that room was actually very jovial and very relaxed. So that's part and parcel of it and at no point I've ever said that any of the country are not behind us. So it was, obviously, disappointing to see what was written up and what was perceived that I'd said. But at the same time, it was fantastic to spend time out in the middle today. And first of foremost, get the win because it keeps in the competition. And we go on to Durham now, we see what the conditions are like, we see what the overheads are like, and then we go from there.

We can't do anything more than that. we can't change anything that's now gone previous to the present moment but we can affect the future and I think that that's a really exciting thing for this group because we've worked really hard over a period of time and there's a lot of excitement still within the group of Lans downstairs before the tournament began would you have taken three wins to win the World Cup I think many team, to be quite honest with you. I think to be in the framework, to be able to, as you mentioned, win three games to potentially lift the World Cup is one thing.

But we know that if we need to put in a performance that warrants that, and we've got to be excited about putting those performances in. Firstly, Swanee, let's just quickly talk about what Johnny Bastos had to say, because and put this sort of issue to bed, if you like, because whatever argument there's no doubt it seems that Bears Doe does seem to perform better when there is fire in his belly. Yes, I mean, he was brilliant, Johnny, and I think what we saw during the week,

and he's saying he's misquoted, a jovial atmosphere. You don't get the atmosphere coming through on a written interview. Crises know that. You do a lot of media training. He was ill thought, his response to a question, obviously. And honestly, Johnny is a lovely lad,

and he's not one of these, like, plays the victim and all, everyone's against me sort of thing. So he's just obviously said something trying to be funny about it or trying to be clever, and it's backfired. It wound up at Vaughney, it wound up a lot of people. And so he put a lot of pressure on himself to perform.

And he did. He came through, shining stars. So I'd send him to the press every day. Yeah, you mentioned about that jovial nature in those roundtable press conferences. And it is very relaxed. And he could have made... I mean, could he actually have been turning around

and making a joke just because of the audience that was listening to him of the written press and the relationship that they have with some of the England players and sort of saying, well, you lot don't backers type of thing. Yeah. And that's the way, but it was obviously something that was taken out of context, perhaps. I think it's part of your media training is you do roundtable interviews,

and people from the media come and help you out as a player. And whatever you say is then shown to you how it will be written up by various outlets. Because obviously a tabloid newspaper, Will's trying to sensationalise it. The broadsheets might try and dig a little deep, whatever. So they're saying these are the words you say, and they'll give you something very, very simple. And you read it out. and then they'll show you how it's interpreted. So you have no control over how someone writes it up.

You can say something and go, actually, strike that. I do not want that print. And then it won't go in. So I do believe that Johnny has said. He's definitely said it. Yeah. But he hasn't meant, there's no context in written papers. Okay.

Well, let's go back to the match situation. And the difference that Liam Plunkett seemed to make. Moines Allie was left out. And he, you know, I saw him the other day and he was desperate to play. Not that he was bitter about it. he was just desperate to be involved and help England. And the stats don't seem to lie that when he does play, England seemed to win. Well, that's right.

I think if Mowin Ali had played, England would have won as well, because it was the batting that won that game. It was the platform at the top. It just invigorated England. It was like watching England from the last two years. But Liam Plunkett, his record over the last two or three years is sensational. It's the best in the world are doing what he does at that period of picking up wickets in the mid-inning. So it seems strange that he was ever left out in the first.

place but undoubtedly it was it was I've said it before Jason Roy yesterday was the entire reason that I felt warm and fuzzy about England again because I've been panicking because without him they've looked a little bit lost they haven't had that swagger that sense of inner confidence from the second Roy play that glorious cover driving about the third over you could there was a palpable sense of oh he's back praise praise Jason Roy gonna bring Jeremy Coney in him in in just a second. But on team selection, now you've got Liam Plunkett that has come in and performed well. Maybe a decision to make on whether you actually play

Mowie and Ali here at Durham, because I've watched the innings here today, watch the game against Sri Lanka and South Africa. The pitch looked good. Slower bowling seem to be more difficult to hit. Do you feel that England might just come up here, assess the condition, see what they've seen already and make a call? What's making it very tricky is the fact that Mark Wood and Joff Archer were both bowling well. Joff Ritch has petered off a little bit because ideally I'd have Plunkett and Allie in the team. I think the

spinners for England are so much better as a pair. I'd look at the opposition. Look at who you're playing. Are they more susceptible to pace or spin? What is going to be the best method of restricting and getting these lovable Kiwis out? Well that is the opposition that they'll be playing the lovable kiwis.

We have one next to us. Very lovable indeed. The most lovable. And things have tailed off Jeremy Coney, unfortunately, for for New Zealand. bit of the woe going through. What do you reckon the mood in the camp may be after two defeats? Oh, they're pretty phlegmatic

people, I think. I don't think they'll be undermined by that. They'll be disappointed by certain things, but be really honest with you. I'm sorry to do this, people, and it'll sound terrible, terrible, I know, but they've been playing on some dogs of pitchers, frankly.

They've played twice at Edge Bunsen, which was curious yesterday for me. that it looked an entirely different ground. But however, because there's no way than the pictures that I saw, you would see 640 runs for 12 wickets in a day. You would not see it.

It wasn't possible. And so that was an extremely different kind of surface that they played on yesterday. Having said that, the match against Pakistan turned wildly and was slow and against South Africa. was slow.

And 240 was a good total in both those games. So they've been playing on those, and then they played at lords of the centrepiece of everything, and it was a reused surface. And Australia won the toss and batted, which you could understand, made 240. They would have beaten New Zealand if they scored 180. And New Zealand got, I know, 160 or something like that, didn't they?

So it was a very hard batting on those surface. in the last three games for them. It has exposed the batting a little bit for New Zealand. The batsmen, if you look at the opening partnerships for them, they went from a very decent start of 137 for their opening partnership, unbroken, and then since then it's been 35, naught. There was an abandonment, 12, 05 and 29. So it's probably one of the worst opening partnerships

that we've seen in the world tournament, actually. So there's an area, and they've finally made it. change. They brought in a fellow called Nichols, who normally bats in the middle order, but they've said enough, we wanted to have a crack at something a bit different. It didn't go spectacularly well,

29 runs, nothing much. So, will they stick with it? Probably. Probably. I mean, we've been talking, Jeremy, and we talked in the car on the way here, about the news, and I was staggered at Edgebunton, as you called it, and they've played in the last

The last two games they've played on, actually on used pitches, which may have helped, well, it's hindered them, obviously, against Pakistan and against Australia. But they've also dropped catches. There are other reasons. I'm not certainly, I'm not going to start sort of bagging the surface. They were just difficult pitchers to bat on. I think they're a product of the weather. I'm sure some of that was. Would it be nice to have a newer pitch at Lords, to be honest with you. But on that, via that same token, we talked, and I looked at the pitch, and I saw him warming up prior to Edgebaston and I think he's got to play today, and we're talking about his sodi, the leg spinner. Mistake. Absolutely.

And it seemed that way. Do you think they will make a change again? Do you think we'll see two spinners in Santner and Sodi come in for this surface here at Dundum? This one looks like it's not so suitable for faster bowlers, not certainly to try out the middle of the pitch. I mean we saw Pereira the way that he played as soon as anything short it went was baseballed over sort of wide extra cover mid-off area

that's how slow it's coming from the surface so whether New Zealand I mean whether England play Archer and would I'm not too sure about that I think the big thing for me is is Gophtil gonna play oh Gopold must play

so Gopthill his record against England is good he must play and everyone who's got a good record against England has scored against England. Aaron Finch is my classic. Before that Australia game I woke up in the morning thinking that England would win but almost reluctantly accepting that Aaron Finch would get 100.

So Guptil, I think there's certain bowling attacks and he's looked at, he's had a poor World Cup with the bat for his standards. Very poor. And I think he's due one. And I think he took a brilliant catch the other day. After dropping a couple. Yes, he did. Straight away when he took that catch, I thought, that's the sort of spark. That's the thing people who look back, I've caught that now

right. Those things can certainly help. And also, So with New Zealand having two home players, if you like, in Tom Latham and Ross Taylor, who spent a lot of time up at Durham, will know the conditions well, we'll know how the pitch plays more interestingly, and that can maybe dictate how New Zealand play. Let's just, the table as it stands at the moment, Australia have qualified. They have got 14 points from eight games, one remaining. India second, seven games played 11 points. New Zealand, third, 11 from 8, and England with 10 from 8.

and then Pakistan and Bangladesh, soon after that, with nine and seven, respectively. Bangladesh, we've got two games in hand, if you like. They've just played seven. So, you know, England with victory will qualify as similarly with New Zealand. With defeat, then you're looking at other people doing you a favour. And New Zealand, you'd slightly prefer to be in New Zealand shoes with the extra point and having a better net run rate in that respect. Is that fair?

I think the extra point makes a massive difference. No, in England, just have to win. I'm actually happy the position that England are in judging by what went on at Edgebaston. They were in a desperate position and it brought their natural game out. It brought Jason Roy back as well but they suddenly looked like that team

that I've come to really admire and love over two years. It's a fresh surface or it looks like it's going to be a fresh surface here at Durham. We're looking at the pitches. It was a fresh pitch against Edgebaston. They've had a lot of dry weather and a lot of good weather up here in the northeast as well. The better the pitch, you just feel that England batting line up. Actually, I can't believe in a World Cup that you ever play on these pitches. Every game should be a level playing service.

You play on a fresh pitch in a World Cup. Surprise, it's not, though. There's one factor I... The only thing is the gantry, the size of the gantry for things and television cameras and so on, that they tend to be locked into certain positions. And it also depends, I guess, how many games are being held on the ground. Some rounds, there's going to be six. Once every four years, just say, right, you're not allowed to use your pitches for any of the cricket there.

your World Cup wickets. Well, that's a fair comment, but certainly reused pitchers have been relatively prevalent. From BBC Radio 5 live, this is the TMS podcast at the Cricket World Cup. It wasn't to be for the West Indies today

with that Sri Lanka victory by 23 ones, and they look delighted with their work and, to be perfectly honest, that some past during that game, well, Sri Lanka looked all over it for one stage, 199, for six, they had the West Indies, but then Fabian Allen and Nicholas Poran came together and really turned the match

around into what was a very tense with five overs ago, very tense and nervy affair, especially if you were in Sri Lankan shoes. But one or two mistakes really meant that the West Indies couldn't capitalize on the platform that they'd given them and they couldn't see the game home. But a really good game of cricket that it ended up being here at Chester the Street, curtly, Ambrose and Graham Swan alongside me. And there must be, Kurtly, so much frustration. both with ball and maybe in the field, but also with the bat as well, just to not be able to see the game home, getting yourself so close once again.

Yes, it's another replay of the West Indies New Zealand game, isn't it? I mean, it's a case of what could have been, you know, but West Indies seem to have the knack of getting into good positions and just can't finish the job. And getting to good positions and don't finish the job is not going to work. You know, and, you know, it has been an extremely disappointing workup for them. Nicholas Pruan played a brilliant innings. He almost single-handedly took them home.

Good partnership with Fabian Allen and then had mix-up. From time he was run out, then right there was on the wall. You know, so too many mistakes, simple mistakes made by West Indies, in the field, we're in the bowl and with the bat. And that's been the story for the World Cup. Phil Long is alongside me. Just a reminder, if you will, of the extras. the West Indies bowl because there was quite a few, there was quite a few no balls,

plenty of wides as well. Yeah, West Indies 19 extras, five no balls, five wides. In the end, Sri Lanka's extras totted up, 27 extras for them, with 20 wides. Oh, well, you know, what's good for one is good for another. But the fact is, what is it for the West Indies that will need to change? You mentioned about that New Zealand game, they get themselves into a position, then suddenly an innings, as it was for Carlos Brathwaite, against New Zealand and Old Trafford.

Here it was Nicholas Porron alongside Fabian Allen. What or how do they change those narrow margins of defeat? Is it just experience? Is it technique? What do you feel? It's not experience. It's not technique. Because there's nothing too wrong with their skills.

I have said before and I will continue to say that they need to put some more thoughts into the cricket. If they think situation flew as is better, they can get over that. last hurdle. They get into good positions and they, you know, you have to learn to respect good bowling from time to time. And they have this

thing about this notion that they're power hitters, we can hit boundaries. So even if the bowling is really good, they still believe they can blast the way out. That's not how cricket is played. You got to respect good bowling and you wait and keep the ones and twos going, which you don't do very often. So where

they're not getting the boundaries, they're not getting the ones and the twos. So they build more pressure and then try even harder to get the boundaries and let's keep getting out. So where does that come from? Does that stem from the captain? Does it stem from the coach? Does it, or is it, you know, does Chris Gale have to turn around to them as a batting unit with he being the most

experienced, turn around to them and say, this is how you play this particular situation. Not everyone's me, not everyone plays the way I do, but if I was you, I would play in such a way. Well, I tell you, I'm not so sure if those discussions, you know, went on because, I mean, I spent two years with that same senior team, most of the guys. and the high percentage of them have this idea that their power hitting team, right? Because I'm a kind of guy who like to write. So I've always had my stats, you know, the dot balls and all that stuff.

So when I go to a team meeting or trying to present, you know, something, I would like, guys, listen, we score X amount of runs, look at the dot balls, X amount of dot balls, too many dot balls. So if we can squeeze some extra singles and tools and eliminate so many dot balls, we can even get a bigger toss. or we win more games. Most of them, well, you know, coach, we're a power hitting team and this and the so. It's frustrating. It's a cop out, isn't it, from back to point of people? Exactly.

So they failed to run ones and twos. You know, it's all about fours and sixes. You saw the difference when Paul and Alan were batting there, and they really were playing the one and two's, and all of a sudden they were back in the game. Look, I'm the last person to turn around and say that Chris Gale is a hindrance to the side. But when you are, or when you see other international sides,

you know, you watch Johnny Baster and Jason Roy. You know, not only do they pick up boundaries, but as soon as there is a one available, it's there. It's tip and run. They are rotating the strike as well as collecting those boundaries. Now, is that a bit of a hindrance when you've got Young Shea Hope and you've got Ambris up there and Nicholas Poran and Schimron Haemeyer, all of whom are athletic guys and who can rotate the strike?

Is that a hindrance? Well, it is when Gail plays like I did today, because when he starts slowly, he's very, very slow. And when he's not, he absolutely flies. So it's a double-edged sword. You take what you'll get at the best of Chris Gale. We'll score 80 off 30 balls. But the next day, he'll score 30 off 80 balls.

That's the most frustrating part for me. Nicholas Poran, and we've seen Shea Ho play some fantastic innings, Nicholas Poran. There is the core of something very, very good that could happen for the West Indies. It's about bringing it all together and, you know, trying to find that common denominator that will move them forward as a team.

However, it would be remiss to mention the way that Sri Lanka play today. And Avishka Fernando with this century today, we were talking on commentary ground, weren't we, about the fact that never, you know, it seems that Sri Lanka have not replaced Mahala Joe Warden. They've not replaced Kumar Sanghaara. But in Avishka Fernando, 21 years of age, thought he played wonderfully well.

Yeah, I think this game bodes well for Sri Lanka's future. You've seen a couple of shining lights who can have a decade of great cricket ahead of them. And we've seen on the West Indies side, you know, Chris Gale, who's had a decade of great cricket behind him, hasn't really got a future, even though he wants to play on. It's plain to see that Chris shouldn't play anymore. He's had his incredible career.

Yes. And I think Cudely said he should bow out gracefully. And because otherwise it does hinder the West Indies development. There has been talk about this, you know, this farewell test that he wants to play in India and the like, should this be it? Should Chris Gale say at the end of this tournament, they've got one game left against Afghanistan, that's it. That's me done. Hang up the Burgundy floppy hat.

I don't think you could just say I want a farewell test. I'm that big a deal like it. Let me tell you something. One word, nonsense. Hasn't played a test match for five years. He can barely make it in a one international to stay in the field as long as he... I mean, test match for five days, six hours every day.

It's grilling. And he hasn't done for five years. Farewell? So what kind of message you're going to send to one of the opening batsmen? Well, you know, there's a farewell game for Chris Gillis or sit this one out. That is, that's a nonsense. He should bowed out of his World Cup gracefully. Say, thanks, he have done extremely well for West Indies and World Cricket.

Bowled gracefully and say, guys, thanks, wave a bat or with the hands, whatever, and you move on. The best thing is press forward. The second you let one player be bigger than the team, you're absolutely knackered. And it takes away from Jason Holder to a certain degree. He, I am sure, I'm absolutely convinced that Jason Holder will want to turn around. and move this side forward. And actually, I wonder if part of him is looking forward to the post-Kris Gale era. I just wonder.

Well, I doubt that. I think most of the West Indies probably is. Even though he's a great player, it's Clint Seenow. Playing in this World Cup was brilliant for the West Indies. Had it all gone to plan. Correct. It's not, so it's time. It's more than time.

There's no way you can continue. What we did see is, you know, we saw Lassithma Linger again perform and why he is such a world-class performer. And he keeps on doing it day and day out for Sri Lanka. matters not that he's added a few extra pounds around the tub. Yeah, he does. The skills are still there. And when the big moments come, Malinga still stats up.

He is brilliant still. I mean, no one has ever bowed yorkers like, let's see if Malinga does. He lets us go from a completely different area than any other human being who's ever bowed a cricket ball. He's brilliant. And he's, you know, he's still performing every day, and he's not in any way a hindrance to the team. The TMS podcast at the Cricket World Cup. Well, if the World Cup wasn't enough, there's even more cricket coming your way this week. England's women begin their Ashes Challenge with the first one-day international of the multi-format series at Grace Road on Tuesday.

England Captain Heather, Heather, first thing's first. How's your fitness? Good. Pulled up really well the last few days, obviously, building back up to running and things like that and, yeah, I'm fit to go. How excited are you? It's the start of an Asher series. It doesn't get much bigger than this. Really excited. We obviously haven't had the chance to look too far ahead to explore that series against the World. West Indies which we're fully focused on and since the end of that I think we've all turned our eye to the ashes and really started to get excited and it's a brilliant series to be involved in. It's where I've had my probably best and worst moments in a shirt and it's the ones you really look forward to as a play and the ones you really want to be successfully.

Do you think it's been a bit of an advantage to your team not having too much thinking time and actually being able to concentrate on competitive cricket without this huge spectre of the ashes in front of you? I think so yeah I think the mood in the camp is really relaxed actually and that's when we're at our best when we're relaxed and we're having fun and obviously having that intensity when we do play I think it's probably the best prepared we've ever been for an Ashes series

obviously with the West Indies series leading into it and the preparation we've done and the amount of players that we've had in form has been outstanding and yes it's all about stop talking about now and go out and performing well tomorrow having the right mindset the right mentality against the Australians which side do you think is under more pressure

I don't know Henry I think that's one for the media to decide yeah I don't know No, I'm not sure whose favourites, to be honest. They're a very good side and obviously got the better of us a little bit recently in that World Cup final, but we've had some great games against them and we're a very good side as well. So I think it's going to be a great contest.

I think it's going to be some very good cricket played and hopefully we can come out on top. How would it compare to a World Cup win, winning the Ashes as a captain? I think it'll be up there. I think, honestly, it would be hard to top that 2017 World Cup, but Ashes Series are right up there. They're the ones you look to as a player,

the ones that you watch as a kid, the ones you want to be involved in. It's a brilliant rivalry, it's a brilliant series to be involved, and they seem to get bigger and bigger each year. So, yeah, it will be right up there with that World Cup win. There have been some quotes in the media, building this up, but from the opposition, suggestions that Australia might win every single game. Any thoughts? Oh, look, we're not about words, we're about actions. We want to go out there and play really good cricket on the pitch tomorrow. We want to focus on ourselves, and we want to go

out there and, like I say, have the right mentality, take the momentum that we've had from this summer so far and from the winter, that winning habit we've got into and hopefully keep it going tomorrow. How relaxed is the side ahead of tomorrow? Yeah, very relaxed. We had a couple of days off after the West Indies series, which was quite nice to get home, go sleep in our own beds and sort of get a bit of mental freshness back. And we've all met up and been

reasonably relaxed and just ready to go now, I think we feel like we're ready. There's no more preparation we can do. Really can't wait for it all to start. It was 8-8 over in Australia. Remember covering the Women's Ashes series out there, but Australia retaining the ashes. Let's head then to the home of cricket.

Grace Road. Good afternoon, Henry. afternoon. To you, Daggers, it's looking, it's looking resplendent, Grace Reader. It always does. It always does. I've opened the little flaps at the front of the commentary box and stuck the microphone out the window and we've got the Australia team in front of me going through their warm-ups and their training, Alyssa Healy's just going through some keeping drills with a tennis racket and one of those bats that's got the soft edges just to mimic the thin outside edge. And I have to say, she's barely dropped a thing in front of me as Australia in a very good mood. It has to be said, get ready for the start of this series. There were some feisty words. You mentioned it with Heather Knight from Alicia Healy saying we're not going to lose a game. We're not going to lose a game in the women's ashes. I mean, are Australia that confident? Are they that strong?

Who should we be really, or who should England be looking out for us as the main threats? Well, certainly Healy will be one of them. A lot of words are spoken about Alyssa Healy. She's the wife of Mitchell Stark. She's this loud mouth, sort of not shy of giving a word or two in the media. On the pitch, apparently the word is from the England team. She's actually saying an awful lot and it's quite quiet. So much of the talk seems to be out in the media.

She said, yeah, we can go out and win every game. How bold is that, was her quote. And it's something that we've seen in Australia cricket in both men's and women's cricket. Glenn McGrath always used to say every single match, we're going to win 5-0. And it's part of it. England have been very keen every time that we've asked them about it. Mark Robinson said to me last week, he said, look, this isn't what we're about. This actually in many ways isn't what the women's games about.

We want to go out there. We want to play cricket. We're going to try our absolute hardest to win every single game, but we're not going to do it by trying to create this false sense of added bitterness and aggression that actually we don't need to worry about. We can just concentrate on what's going to go on in the middle and make sure that we do our jobs properly. And Australia have got an excellent squad.

They've got an advantage as well compared to the last Asher series in that their captain Meg Lanning is available. She scored big runs 98 in a warm-up match at the weekend against an England A team. Of course, they've got in that side of list, Haley, who's coming to her own in the last couple of years as one of the world's very best. And then Elise Perry as well, who without question, you'd have to say is the best all-rounder in the women's game in world cricket. So they've got a team full of superstars.

And if you look at the points table in the ICC Women's Championship, well, Australia are streaks ahead of anybody. And you'd have to say, they go into this series as favourites. From England's perspective, the weather dictates a lot in their series against the West Indies, the cricket that they did play. The West Indies weren't that much of a challenge. Are they ready and prepared for this? I mean, it's going to be a completely different proposition facing Australia.

It will be. That West Indies series, one of the matches was here at Grace Road. And it was one of those series where you sort of knew the outcome of every game before it started. We saw that with the first game and the first series that Heather Knight led the England side three years ago against Pakistan, where you turned up and it was how many would England score and how much would the winning margin be. It was a little bit like that against the West Indies. So there's a degree to which England come into this series, having played competitive, cricket, but yes, but not competitive cricket where they've really ever been under pressure.

So in some respects, they may feel that they're not quite as cooked as they might be coming into this series. But of course, Australia, they haven't been playing a bilateral series against a top international side coming into this and they're playing in foreign conditions. So there is that challenge. They seem very, very confident Australia. They were singing songs as they walked into the ground earlier this morning, a lot of laughing and joking as they've kicked that Aussie rules football around in the last.

half an hour or so they look full of confidence and why wouldn't they be they are to all intent and purposes the world's best england right up there with them but it's the t20 champions against the 50 over world champion it should be brilliant available every day during the cricket world cup this is the tms podcast from bbc radio 5 live right well as regular listeners will know we're trying to find a listener to this podcast in every country of the world we've had a couple more submissions today of joining me is jeremy coney to go through some of the submissions that have been done. First off, Jeremy, we've got this one from Jeremy Drage.

Fine name. It is. Well, the poorest part. Well, it is. I contacted you, says Jeremy, before, about listening from Kinsasha in the Democratic Republic of Congo, and was pleased to get a mention, I hear you are still missing the Republic of Congo. Can I say that I already can clearly see Brazzaville in the Congo just across the mighty Congo River as I listen in Kinsasha.

Do we count that? Let's find out a little bit later on. We'll be told by the higher-ups within the BBC. I've got one from Linda. Okay, give it it. Now, she says, now this is not a country, but a, quote, naughty place to follow yesterday's match. Easy, Linda. I'll expigate this next piece.

I found myself preaching in a chapel at 6 o'clock, 6 o'clock, 6 p. PM. So I'm ashamed to say that I had my phone in the pulpit and checked the scores at the last verse of each hymn. Then I gave the thumbs up to our wonderful organist to let

him know that we were still on track for a win. Well, that's not too bad. Well, I think from the pulpit I could see that if you looked at the signals that a preacher makes during a say a sermon and you watched it according to cricket and cricket

signs in place to sort of an interpretation around the signs that they make. For example, a point well made a finger. Yes. That's out and the next man's in. Yes. Or you could raise both arms lazily at our men. Like that sort of thing you see. A six. Or a hallelujah, perhaps. Exactly.

Horizontal arm swings are fours. Yes. This could be expanded upon at great length. I'm absolutely convinced. Pulpit cricket. Pulpit cricket. Why not? And it started by Linda, who I'm glad, was at the pulpit. The conclusion of that. So, it's It looks like we've hit, I'm afraid, a bit of a wall. So come on, people.

Get in touch with us. We're still looking for listeners in the following countries. Here we go. Benin, Burundi, Chad, Comoros. Well, I genuinely don't know where Comoros is. It might very well be. Oh, that's a cormorant. Oh, there you go.

Well, it could have been something made up. Congo. North Korea. Good luck with that one, everyone. If you are listening to us in North Korea, would really love to hear from you. Djibouti, Equatorial Guinea, Eritrea, Grenada. who have not had someone from Grenada? I don't know. But still, get them in if you can. Guinea, Guinea, Bissau, Haiti, even, Kiribati, Libya. Where else? The Marshall Islands,

federated states of Micronesia. And Nauru? Noru? Is that Jeremy? Nauru? One of those? Yes. Nicaragua. Niger, Palau, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, Togo, Tunga, Turkmenistan, to Valu, Uruguay, Venezuela and Yemen. So if you are any one of those countries and you are listening and downloading the TMS podcast, please get in touch with us. The all-important email address. TMS at BBC.co.uk.

The TMS podcast at the Cricket World Cup. Download and subscribe via the BBC Sounds app for a new episode every day.