Test Match Special - CWC Day 8: Starc reminder, Plunkett's prep and the Windies rejuvenation

Episode Date: June 6, 2019

Nathan Coulter-Nile with the bat then Mitchell Starc with the ball earn Australia victory, their tenth ODI win on the spin. The West Indies may have come up short today but we get the inside story on this rejuvenated side with Curtly Ambrose and their recent Head Coach Stuart Law. We also hear from Liam Plunkett on diet, match preparation, and why he's given up alcohol.

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There's a mix-up. Oh, there could be a run-out. There will be a run-out. It's a tie. Australia is in the final. The captain has scored the winning run for Sri Lanka, who have won the World Cup for the first time in their history. That's it. The West Indies have retained the title. And India have caused one of the greatest upsets in the history of all sport. Australia have emphatically won their fifth World Cup. Hello, welcome to the TMS podcast at the Cricket World Cup. West Indies against Australia, lift up to the hype, actually.

Reaction to that match to come. We'll get the inside track on the making of this West Indies side from Kurtly Ambrose and Stuart Law. We'll hear about AB DeVille's last gasp request to be named in South Africa's squad. And I chat to Liam Plunkett about the physical work that he puts in to be England's middle-over wicket-taker.

From BBC Radio 5 live, this is the TMS podcast at the Cricket World Cup. So an excellent game of cricket here. I've got Geoff Lemon and Fasier Muhammad with me to look back at that. Where do we start with the West Indian or the Australian? Let's go to the West Indian. Fasier, I thought you had it. I thought it was going to be your game today. I thought we had it as well.

But Australia played Championship cricket. We've talked about this over and over again, that when you're accustomed winning, as the West Indies were so many years ago, you know what to do in the tough time 79 for 5 you win by 15 runs you get almost 300 runs and even with the West Indies with Jason Holder and Andrew Russell

hitting the big sixes you still believe in yourself you strangle the opponents and you just have that belief one wicket here a brilliant bit of fielding there and you can bring it over to your way and that's what championship teams do

yeah Jeff I mean that's kind of Oz's at their best and in a way it's showing fight I mean you know they'll look at that top order and I think, well, 79 for 5 wasn't great. But, you know, that's sort of that resilience, that, you know, that guts in us. It was Australia winning a match they had no right to win, basically, but you can't be West Indies and let a number eight make 92 runs.

You know, that's just absurd. A tail ender coming in and whacking 30 or 40, well, that can happen. But he very nearly got 100. He was batting in the second last over of the innings and could have made a ton. That's on the bowling team, and that's on the, well, they dropped him once, didn't they? Yes, he did. And that was a simple catch. You pull off a worldly catch to get rid of Steve Smith,

but drop the simple one that lets Kultanile, continue boshing runs. So I think West Indies let it sleep, and even chasing 280, they should have done it, but they just weren't composed enough at the right times. I mean, it felt like a big game today. Yeah. For both teams, oh, it's an obvious thing to say, but the way that the West Indies have demolished Pakistan here

and Australia, in a way, lots of attention, obviously, in this part of the world, on them and how they're rebuilding and what they're doing. And so I think Australia would be really pleased to come out of this one. Oh, it was a huge game, because West Indies had played so well in that first one, whoever won this would have gone to and zip

and would have been up at the top of the table with New Zealand, Australia's managed to do that despite, I'm still not convinced by their line-up on paper. I still don't think they've brought the perfect squad or necessarily got the 11 right, but they were able to do it nonetheless and that's what they can do. And let's look at the tactics then, Fuzzy.

We talked about that a lot, didn't we? And we watched, you know, say, West Indies bowl fast and furious at Pakistan. you still need to be controlled, don't you? And the first ball of the match was five wides because they opened, well, not because they opened with O'Shaen Thomas, but they did open with O'Shaen Thomas, which actually didn't do against Pakistan, Holder opened, didn't he?

And it was just a, it felt a bit tighter. But they went to the big man, 24 wides in all. What do you think? Do you think the umpires were being a bit stiff on them at times, or did they lack the control this time to really make that attack work, do you think? I think they got a bit carried away with what happened against Pakistan, because you've got to recognize that, look, you did that once, you roughed up Pakistan and you got them out for 105.

You're going to be very lucky if you do the same to Australia. And I thought they indulged a bit too much, 24 wides in total. One of them, as you said, going for five. And Michelle Stark started with five wides as well. So you've got to be much more controlled. You've got to be much more disciplined in that regard. We might say, well, the Western is lost by 15 runs, and they had 24 wides, it's not as simple as that.

Because, as you said correctly, the match was over some four, five overs ago before the end. But I think the West Indies, they've got the right tactics. It's the execution. They've got to bring that extra level of discipline and accuracy to what they're doing with the ball. Yeah, I would say the Aussies really enjoyed the short-pitched stuff very much. I mean, Kowager particularly, it was a brilliant catch from Hope behind,

but he seemed to give himself a little bit of room there. He got hit. He's hit a couple of times now, is he one of his confidence is perhaps suffering a little bit. Well, yeah, he was hit in the warm-up match. and had to go for scans after being hit on the jaw and he was hit twice today. Once was the ball before he got out. So logic would tell you it had something to do with it.

He doesn't normally back away a metre to leg stump and then try to carve through backward point. So that's how he got himself out against Andre Russell. So that was a factor. Glenn Maxwell, I think, came out and felt like he had to take it on. It's his job to hit back. And so he went for the first bouncer and top edged it and away he went for a duck as well.

And that was a pull shot too, wasn't it? I mean, they did get some wicked. through it. Well, absolutely. They got the top order. The 79 for 5 and then 147 for 6, you should bowl aside out for 200 or less when you've knocked off their top order for that. And that's what they weren't able to follow up on. Credit to Steve Smith, I mean, again, there was some muttering and a bit of booing and stuff when he came out. We're a friendly lot up here at Cambridge. I think, so I don't think it was that hostile. It felt more of a pantomime boo almost and I suppose you'd better do it.

Yeah, boo. We're required. We're just a contractual obligation. a bit more like that if I'm honest and they applauded his half century but you know he's played really well didn't he I mean it was a typical very calm very controlled innings that he had to play and that enabled Kultonale I suppose to play the way that he did well exactly and Kultonale wouldn't have played that innings if he'd had another tail ender at the other end so that enabled him to decide to be the one to hit top gear and even the way that Steve Smith got out I mean he middled that was a gorgeous shot that clip off his legs that was soaring for six and would have been a six most other days but he just happened to get on the

end of a ridiculous catch. Well, let's talk about that. And if you haven't seen this listener, then you've got to go to the BBC website because I'm afraid. Well, I'm saying I'm afraid. I'm glad to say that. I think that is now the catch of the tournament for me. I mean, we announced that Ben Stokes already won it in the first match, which is perhaps it ridiculous, but that was an incredible catch. This catch by Cottrell, out on that short boundary, well, long leg was running around to his left, watching the ball, watching the boundary, sticking out his left hand. All he will say was, okay, he's. is left-handed. So it was going to

his strong side. But to do all of that while watching the boundary and then feeling his weight, take him over that boundary and to throw the ball back in again and take the catch. I'm sorry, Fuzier, it's up there for me. That's number one for me. You're not going to find any argument with me.

But really, it was an outstanding catch. And I think it's right that we get excited about these elements of the World Cup because it comes around once every four years. And this is the beauty of the World Cup, a brilliant effort. You expect players to put in that extra bit of effort, that extra bit of oomph, that extra bit of brilliance, whether it's in the field or bowling or batting, and that was certainly a remarkable effort from Sheldon Cotton. And they practice these things,

don't they? I know you can't practice anything quite as brilliant, I suppose. But, you know, they do work on boundary catches and putting all of these things into account. But that was something special. But seeing it live, when it all comes together, I think it's that thing of watching something happened that you know he's going to be replayed in 30 years time you know that people will say remember that catch at Trent Bridge and for him that'll be that'll come up for the rest of his career and well after that as well people will say I was there I saw I saw you do that that day you know to be able to tiptoe along the boundary line for about four paces where his shoe was nearly clipping the padding but not quite then to throw it up then to go out then to come back in

that was just extraordinary it was I think he was so excited you can you can overrule me here but I didn't see him give his salute I think he was a so carried away by all he was too busy high-fiving and the batsman had gone by the time the salute could have been made I think he just was totally carried away by it I think by the time he came up with the salute somebody probably told him you haven't saluted us yet

and he just did this sort of you know curse for you sort of yeah just to ensure that he had it there for the record so his sergeant major doesn't get on to him in Kingston well it gives a new meaning to military medium doesn't that? Oh that was if that was brilliant I wasn't very pleased some of the umpiring

today. But there were four out decisions that were overturned. And I know Michael Holden knows been having a bit of a go on the TV. That's a high rate of getting things wrong. It's a difficult job. And we never like to criticise umpires

on all of that. But they are supported by DRS now, but they are very highly trained. To have four outs overturned in one match or one day game? Look, I thought a couple were understandable. Gail's won the balls, clipped the stump. And so that he's thought it to Nick on the bat.

And I think Zampa's leg before against Holder, where he's tried to sweep and it's hit him on the back leg in front of middle. Well, it pitched half a centimetre outside leg stump, but it looked plumb live. So that one I thought was fair enough, but the one against Gail was a bit of a shocker. It was about six inches

outside leg by the time it even hit the pad. Yes. Do you think that's a third time I think you've counted, haven't you, Fazier, about the time that the balls hit the stumps. That wasn't a sort of a hard hit. It did sound, obviously, to the umpour, at least. and everyone out there like an edge. But is it becoming something with these heavy bales

with the lights and them and so on, what do you think? Yeah, I think that's exactly what it is. There's something about those heavy bills. We actually saw the first time that it happened in this World Cup. It lit up, but it still didn't fall off. So it tells you that maybe later on at some really critical point of this World Cup, that is going to happen again,

and then we're going to be talking about it, what would have happened, had the old-fashioned bales and so on. But the game is moving on. The Zing bales make a whole lot of difference. It's very visual. But these are all elements that you take into the game, like broader blades, thicker, bat, shorter boundaries, so many different elements in the modern game now.

And Big Sixes, too. Andre Russell's 103 metres, that was... Up to the top deck up here at the Radcliffe Road stand. That's enormous. Absolutely monstrous. It disappeared. We couldn't see it from the commentary box because it went above the roof and then came down again.

but I was in the press box at Eden Gardens in 2016 when he hit the press box with one in the, I think it was the World T20 semi-final, so he's a monster when he gets going. But you know, it's still only six. I'm sure he'll probably tell himself, you know, if I could take back 30 metres of that one and tuck it on to the one where I got caught,

that would be more important. So it's dramatic, it's spectacular, but it's still only six. Yeah, he did rather give it away as well after, didn't he? But anyway, it was an excellent game of cricket. I mean, I just think, one last thought. I mean, from Australia's perspective, Jeff, on the march? Well, winning ugly is a big part of Australia's makeup, you know, to be able to not be at your best but get the results anyway.

West Indies were not at their best and couldn't get the result today. And I think Australia pride themselves on being able to slog their way through even when they're not fully firing. And the windies, just a thought way, do they... Yeah, I think they'll take a lot from this, obviously disappointed because it was a match for them to win. They couldn't win it, but they're going on to play South Africa, next, that's going to be on Monday, then on Friday they play England.

They'll be in Southampton for a week. The West Indies, from my reckoning, have the best schedule of this World Cup. And they need to make it count, and it's just about taking the experience from this and moving on. Let's see what their captain has to say, shall we? Kevin Howells is with Jason Holder. You must be frustrated by that because you took that so deep. Real nip and tuck in the chase. Yeah, I look disappointed in the way we lost the game.

Yeah, as you said, I thought we were well in control, most of the game. And, you know, just a few irresponsible shots. We lost wickets at crucial stages, which we probably should have hung in a little bit longer and just knocked it around. You may be disappointed by that, but of course, the pressure is put upon you by you've got a great bowing attack. We've seen that, but so to Australia. So you will learn from this in the tournament. Yeah, we definitely have to learn from it, you know, as much learns as we can take from it, you know, it has to be taken. And I think there's lots of positives, you know, to bowl Australia up for 288.

It's a big positive for us. You know, I thought we were pretty decent in the field and we probably let one or two slip. But overall, I thought most of the guys knuckle down and you get got in, which is another positive scene, we just need to go a little bit deeper. And Kevin Howells also spoke to Australia's captain Aaron Finch. Well, that was a brilliant game to watch. I imagine you and the team, as well as enjoying the victory, will take an awful lot out of that.

Yeah, absolutely. There's still a lot of improvement, which is a real positive as well. I thought from 4 for 30 to fight back and create a couple of big partnerships there to get us to 288 was a great fight and showed great determinations, especially from our lower order. And then we kept chipping away and taking wickets, which was crucial with the ball. But towards the end as well, piling up the pressure, because West Indies must have thought they'd not got it in the bag, but they were looking just edging it, weren't they really?

So Mitchel Stark, for example. He's a world-class bowler with the old ball, when there's not much happening, he's as good as there is. And I think that the pace that he bowls, the angle, the left-arm angle, as soon as you get a new batter and he can squeeze them really hard as well. So brilliant performance by Mitch, but I thought our bowlers in general were all really good. Cricket, this is a record-breaking ground, which record-breaking totals have scored. It's a whole different game, isn't it, when it comes to World Cup? Yeah, absolutely, and I think on a used wicket, it was a little bit up and down,

especially with the harder ball. It was when the guys banged in, and it was, even guys who batted for quite a long time, said it was hard to pull just because it was a bit inconsistent off the surface. So we found that, and we probably persisted a little bit too short for a bit too long with the ball, but all in all, tournament play, it's about scraping through however you have to and keep improving as you go along. This is the TMS podcast at the Cricket World Cup. Extraordinary story today that San Africa's former captain,

A. B. DeViliers, who retired last year, approached the coach Otis Gibson, the captain Fafti Placite, and the selection panel to make himself available for the World Cup 24 hours before the squad was due to be announced. Now, the selection convener, Linda Zondi, has commented on this, so it sounds as if it did happen. And the quote is, it was based on principle.

we had to be fair to the team the selection panel franchise system and the players we had players who put in the hard work who put up their hands and deserved to be given the opportunity to go to the World Cup so I mean it sounds as if it's a credible story but

what do we think about AB rocking up with 24 hours to go saying I'll tell you what fellas I fancy going to the World Cup yeah if it is credible I think they made the right call because he was saying over a year ago you know well when he wrapped up that test series against Australia he was done that was enough he was was going out on a high, they'd thrashed Australia at home. All was well. It was about a year

ago when he actually went public, but he said he'd already decided in March last year that he was retiring to come back a year and a bit later and say, well, actually, I think I've changed my mind. It's like having a relationship with someone who breaks up with you and wants to get back together all the time. At some point, you have to say, well, you've made your decision and we're done. Yeah, sounds fair enough, isn't it? When Viv Richards retired from international cricket in 1991, everyone thought that was over. And then for the 1992 world, Cup. He wanted to play. He wasn't selected and that was a big talking point. It doesn't matter who you are. Viv Richards, Sachin, Tundulka, AB DeViliers, nobody's bigger than the

game and you can't pick and choose when you want to play. Fair enough. Just another quick story that's been doing the rounds suggesting England might well drop Adjul Rashid for Saturday's match with Bangladesh. He was expensive here against Pakistan, but he's been so successful, of course, as England's part of the makeup. I wonder if that means they're just going to go pace against Bangladesh and try and do that. But Cardiff Norm is, well, I'm a single game there this year. It can't be a bit sticky and what do you think of that? He's got a good record at the ground.

Yes. You know, he took, well, 2 for 47, 1 for 54 in the last Champions Trophy. He took three wickets against Australia there last year and averages 26, strike rate of 28 at the ground. So it seems to suit him. I don't say why you'd leave him out. No. England have got to be careful. They don't become victims of their own hype coming into this tournament.

because there's no way anyone is going to play unbeaten all the way through. They are far too many variables, and you've got to stick with those you know to be your true and trusted performers and your match winners. So they've got to be thinking carefully before they rush to these changes. Well, I'd agree. And it just seems to me all you do is feel better, actually. I mean, that was so much of the issue here the other day.

You were here first here, won't you? But that's what I hope they've been doing so field of practice. Precisely, from the first over, as you mentioned, Owen Morgan, with that error, the drop catch and so much else. You've got to just simply do the basics right. if you want to win a World Cup. And support your bowlers. If Roy takes the catch-off, Rashid,

then he probably doesn't get hit out for the attack. That's also very true. Well, we'll keep an eye on that. It's still two days out. That match, of course, is on Saturday, but certainly a chance, therefore, of Liam Plunkett returning to the side. He sat out the Pakistan game

because Mark Wood played instead. And here we go. I've been to speak to him now about his physical preparation for matches, the diet, the fact that he's given up, alcohol, actually, and how he's changed as a bowler over the game. the years. Obviously when I first started I was open the ball and swinging it away

obviously decent pace then not as consistent and that's why I wasn't obviously around for the longevity of someone like the Jimmy and people like that is obviously I struggle with my consistency but yeah it's a funny thing now it's I sort of took away all the outside things of where's this I'm going and all this kind of stuff and try and concentrate and hit my areas

and obviously when you get confident with that running in you work the batsman out and you find yourself as soon as you your areas like that you're sort of automatically going all right i'm just going to try and take this in the ear or just hold it on a length and rather than stress about everything else but yeah i think i used to swing it away and obviously i always thought i would do that and from that now yeah what's more fun running up and swinging the ball away nicely or pulling your body through all this of running and bowling bounces yeah obviously i did do that when i came back for the test in 2015-16 but obviously now i feel like i'm i vary my pace and i think that's something that on often days i was

speaking the other day it's sometimes I've run in I can feel like I can hit my 90s and some day I don't and some days with my action good or bad take it out however you want is a balking come out at 88 and a ball can come out at 82 with the same action and I feel like I need to use that as my advantage because if you're running and hitting

the bat's been hard and the next one's similar but that's where you get your caught covers and stuff and that's maybe how I've got the wickets in the middle that I have. It's not always intentional the change of pace obviously you go and you mix your cutters up and you wobble seams and I don't often try to I'll work the seam from straight seam to cross seam to wobble seam and try and hit the same spot and sometimes a ball reacts differently

uh yeah sometimes i run in the same and it comes out slightly different so it's i wish i could always claim that i did that on purpose but not always now come on how do you build up for a game in it is it i mean it's especially a tournament like this actually where you might have some high intensity you know a couple of games in three or four days and then a few days off when do you actually really start focusing in terms of physical work normally i do some i don't really have a full day off I'll try and do active recovery I find it hard

I feel it's better if I just stay in and do nothing all the day I feel like I get more lethargic and I'll probably stiffen up whereas that day off I would either do a light bike

or often do a good yoga like a 40 minute yoga session or some of the boys would get out and walk and golf so you're getting some miles in your leg you're getting that fresh blood in your system so I'm pretty much the day after

I listen to like podcasts of the great like LeBron James and Ronaldo and stuff is their motto is just recovery active recovery there's you can't do you know what I mean it's all you're always on so it's never a feature in front of the telly day then

it's if I've done my little bit of work I'd find it hard just to sit in bed all day sometimes you do do that I've got nothing against that people benefit from that but I feel like if I did like my 25 minute yoga or I did like a light bike or something I feel better for it and I feel my body the day after would be less stiff but yeah that's just for me

as I'm always trying to think how can I be my best to ball in the next to the day how am I going to be my freshest And as I said, often is that It's just the active recovery, mate, so... Alcohol? I don't think I've touched on anything for about four and a bit a month now. So, like, in the past, you do enjoy the odd beer and stuff like that,

but as I've got old, I've tried, obviously, moving to Surrey in the World Cup, I've completely cut it out. And I feel, obviously, better for it. I think it's about four months now. So, obviously, you haven't got how long have we got in my career. It's probably should have something I've done a long time ago, to be honest with you. but often you just you turn up

and when you're really young then be it's don't affect you as much as when you get older and it's something I feel really good for it's obviously I get up early and you can have more time to do your recovery and stuff and there's nothing wrong people have the odd be and it's what relaxes them and the sleep better thumb

nothing against that but for this time right now I just thought I'd give myself the best chance if I ever did get injured it wouldn't be from me doing the run recovery strategy so it always will it was just meant to be an injury do you know what I mean I've played a game high-intensity my body might reacted but it's nothing from I've done from the outside I've done everything I can and

and then I would take it on the chin where I'll kick myself in a World Cup if I got injured it was from me doing something I shouldn't have been doing so yeah that's where I'm at right now with that so as I said I feel in a good space might have a glass if you win yeah win the World Cup absolutely I'd love to celebrate with the guys and I said that'd be a well deserved one for sure and what are food then again something from my generation you know it wasn't even really ever talked about what we should what we should eat or what we shouldn't eat and when we should eat and all that sort of thing so when again with a game in mind what i mean or i suppose are you almost constantly on a fairly monitored regime yeah you just

don't realize how many calories you're churn in a game i mean some of the especially the salampton game against pakistan and that's huge boundaries you're looking at that day 8000 calories in the day and for me speaking to emma who's our nutritionist she's really good is i just don't eat enough and that's the risk again is if you don't eat enough you get cramp you pull the muscle then you're out so but she's really good and some of the programs is we actually eat more than you think we'd eat it's just eating the healthy stuff and always like you're eating your good meals a day but then can you squeeze in two protein shakes in and you're having you right stuff for before bed like going to bed with like a tub of cottage cheese or something like that

and it's all the little things but it does help that the recovery again it's everything's built into that recovery is that pretty much the main highlight for me is doing all that kind of stuff but obviously it's people think eating health and it's boring but it's not isn't it if you get educated in it and speak to the right people there's obviously ways around it and you can obviously enjoy your food and still be healthy as well but if you're working that hard you can treat yourself to whatever it's you mean you're putting in the in the hours you can treat yourself to some pizza whatever it's well deserved sometimes and and what in the interval say uh like was africa are you gonna get come out and then and then um are you are you um eat anything then at all? I try if I know how guys are batting first. Obviously you have your solid breakfast. You're on fuel up in the morning. And then when we're batting,

I'm trying to eat consistently, like, every hour just to keep building. Because if it's a quick break and I've just come off the day I was batting, do you have time to smash you in a quick meal? You don't, and then you're on the field. You don't want to feel heavy. So I struggled a little bit with that.

I had a few, like, small bites during the day. Like, whatever's out, really, like a toasties and your protein shakes, your bananas, and protein shake before I went out again and I didn't feel like I ate enough especially with the nerves going to that first game so everyone's always on, they can see they keep bringing out energy gels

and bring you out banana protein bars so you still kind of fuel all that really but generally I will have a decent meal if we have the time especially if we both first they'll come off and fill my boots it's amazing the difference again from when I mean honestly

when I was playing you actually weren't allowed to drink there was a drink's break sometimes But it was just all part of the, I know, the wearing down process, if you like. I mean, it's amazing how this whole thing has transformed in, I suppose, 30 years, quite a long time, but I mean, it's a complete different mindset, isn't it? Yeah, as you see, you're probably seeing from the outset of the lads that just gets better and better. I mean, this group of guys, we did our fitness testings, and in Wales before we went to Ireland,

and the testings were through the roof, and the body five percentage is down, and everyone's going in the right direction. And I'm not saying it's obviously not, I'm not speaking of football, but it's getting better and better. You can see you're trying to get where football used to be and get better in terms of people are trying to be athletes now. And some of the stuff the guys are doing in the gym is some of the stuff that you might get away from different sort of sports. Like I know Jostas, a lot of speed stuff, speed coordination stuff with weights and some foot drills that you might get from tennis. Like Djokovic might do stuff like that. And everyone's trying to learn.

And that's why you see the guys have been doing really well and just stay fit for a long time. And another thing has changed, Liam, is the sort of psychological side of it. I mean, I don't think, well, that's not changed, but the help that you get, actually, that sort of mental side of the game in which you receive help and assistance and an input. Do you use that much? I do. I do, I mean, I'm not afraid of telling people how I feel about the day and your stresses and stuff because sometimes you speak to someone that helps you.

It might be something you're stressing about, and when you bring it to light, it's nothing to worry about at all. And often we find ourselves worried about stuff that's not going to happen anyway. Because obviously you know you're going to play in a World Cup game and you think, oh, this batsman's on fire and stuff and how come my first change is already out.

So it's, you know what I mean? It's just getting things in place and speaking to, we have a young he's good to speak to. I sometimes do a bit of work with a guy called James who's being part of the ECB from the outlook a little bit. I'll speak to him now and then. About what?

About anxiety? About nerves? Just in general stuff. sometimes you don't want to speak about that in the team environment people do hear but if you want to just like another person to speak to and you know it's not going to go any further it's just like how you're feeling about this i feel about this do you not just and sometimes you get something from the conversations but it's just just just catching yourself before you get too down on yourself or sometimes just you're the other way you get too excited about yourself and you go out and don't

perform because you're that way so there's always both end of the spectrum right so it's just keep yourself level good day a bad day can you keep the same and learn and move on from that I often know you'll see potter off when you get the call Is that for a bit of an anxious pee or something? Pretty much, mate, yeah. I'd change my socks, that's what I say anyway, but yeah, it's just...

Do you feel a bit nervous like that? I don't know, it should become a routine. Yeah, I don't think it'll affect me one bit. Almost a superstitious thing? A little bit, yeah. And I don't... It's just because generally I know when I'm about to bowl,

so I just like a quick swap, but if all of a sudden I'm born the fourth over, then I'm on, I probably wouldn't go off. But then you're fueling yourself because I'm not the best. I cramp quite a lot. It's just I think you do the testing as I sweat a lot.

Do you mean I lose a lot? So I do sweat a lot. So I'm always fueling up before. So you always fall to the up to your neck. So obviously you want to go. You don't want to feel like you need to have a way before you're bowling.

So it's just get that offer and get back on and get good to go. The TMS podcast at the Cricket World Cup. Well, I really enjoyed that chat with Liam Plunkett. How fast polling has changed over the years. Now, I've got in front of me just four little bits of paper left because everybody else has had the chance to select their highest scoring batsman in the World Cup.

It's a little sweepstake that we're running. There's your four. Jeff, you can choose one of those four. It's one of these. All right. Okay. And Fasier, I'm going to let you go next. And you've got three there to choose from.

I'm not sure. Who have we got left? This is interesting thing. If I get Azar Ali, I know it's a stitch up. Well, I've got Aaron Finns. I know that. So that's not bad. Go on, then. Here you've got. Go on, Jeff. I've got Chris Gale. Oh, there we go.

Well, it didn't go so well today, but he scored them quickly, at least. Tell you what, I wouldn't mind having Chris Gail. Fasio? Well, after a poor start, I hope he really goes on like a train now, because I've got Johnny Besto. Oh. I think we've done well, Fizier. I think not too bad at all. I think you both done with you get a chance to trade these things in or not.

No, we don't. Okay, well, there we go. That bit is John. Joe Root apparently is still unclaimed, but I don't know who the two people are yet who haven't had a chance of selecting. So one of those two there is going back in the producer's pocket has got Joe Root all over it. So, Faso, you're staying going to be a second. As you know, we've been asking for people to contact us from where they're listening to this TMS podcast,

from sort of non-cricotty. I think that's a word, but anyway, non-cricotty locations. And you can send that to TMS at BBC.co.com. Put podcast in the title. Paul Barrett has been in touch from Port Hardy on Vancouver Island. where he works the Canadian Coast Guard. That's lovely. He says, I love the podcast. We're going to join the World Cup so far.

All so delighted with the ECB's choice of colour for our jersey. It's identical to my uniform. So I've got no need to spend $100 to buy it. Well, that's fine. So Vancouver, that's quite an unusual one. Well, here's one from Nathan Scrimmiger. I hope I've got the pronunciation correct. Hi, all the TMS.

I'm an Australian listening from Trondheim in central Norway. I was lucky enough to sink part of my opportunity leave with the World Cup. Well done. So my one-year-old daughter and I have had something to listen to on our little day trips, I'll be listening to the latter stages of the tournament from my brother-in-law's town of Bodo within the Arctic Circle. Sometimes it feels for us...

You said that with total confidence, isn't you? Exactly. It feels like we're in the Arctic Circle sometimes here in England, where we'll drive north to under the light of the midnight sun for part of our summer holidays. Fantastic. Enjoy yourself, Nathan. That does sound brilliant, isn't it? Steve Stevenson, Sam Stevenson, sorry. Hello TMS. I'm not massively exotic compared to some of your other correspondents,

but I regularly listen sitting on my balcony and brush off, is it, Transylvania, sipping local red wine and watching the sunset over the Carpathians. Very pleasant indeed. Tim Rawlinson says, Hello TMS. I'm on a slow boat down to the Mekong, down the Mekong River in northern Laos. Fantastic, Tim, you're making us all jealous. Not a lot of cricket here, but I've been using your podcast to explain. plain to my American travel partner

the nuances of the game. I wish you luck with that. Happily, since we're on a boat, he can't run away, though I think he's a bit bored of hearing about Joss Butler's batting. Thanks so much for the podcast. TMS has been my lifeline to England since leaving for America five years ago. I think

a lot of teams are wary about just buttless batting. They are indeed. Fasia, thank you, indeed, for that. We'll see you next week. Indeed, in Southampton. In Southampton. I look forward to it. So the West Indies may have come up slightly short against Australia today, but we're going to end this episode of the podcast. The chat I had with Stuart Lauren Kurtley Ambrose

about the rejuvenation of cricket in the Caribbean and the making of this impressive West Indian side. Stuart was head coach until autumn of last year and Kurtley had a stint as bowling coach. You'll hear why Kurtley was initially against the appointment of Jason Holder as captain and how Stuart sought to bring back the West Indian identity of fast bowling. Having grown up a fond lover of the way

the West Indies played their cricket throughout the 80s and the early 90s to actually be part of what was, I believe, a very special part of the world to go in and change a culture slightly to try and get the best out of the players that we did

have and the first and foremost was the work ethic and the training that we had to put into the players to make sure that they were being able to not only, you're dealing with players that have got immense natural ability natural ability will get you only so far but if you had the fitness

and the strength, the stamina to be able to repeat your skill level over and over again, they're just going to get better and better and we saw a great improvement very quickly regarding fitness levels also but the way we played the game, the way we wanted to play, the intent that we wanted to play with

and I was dreaming when I took over as the coach you always wanted to have five, six ten fast bowlers that could bowl 95 mile an hour and go around the world and really show them how to play the brand of cricket

that the Westerners are renowned for and now we're starting to see the fruits of that labour and the way the West Indies have gone about it today it was outstanding up front how worried were you Kirkley about where West Indies cricket was going

four, five, six years ago I mean did you really think it was it really was heading towards crisis territory it certainly was I mean when you look at where the team was once upon a time and where we are currently it was cause of concern and we've been struggling for a number of years tried many different coaches and it just didn't quite work not the coach's fault obviously but the players just never really you know got going and in

everywhere I travel people ask the same question I mean but let's be honest Jonathan I mean is a learning process for them most of them are still very young the thing is back then when I made a team you got a lot of senior players around great players around who molded me

into what I became when you look at the present investing in this team for the last few years all these players are basically learning the trade at the same time there are not too many senior players to guide them so you know we took a pounding

but I believe that we've got natural talent, natural ability, but like Stuart said, that alone won't take you to the top. He takes a lot of commitment. You got to be physically fit. Cricket is a hard sport. And you can't go out there

expect to perform for half of the match and expect to win. You got to go to full distance. What about attitude as well? I remember Viv Richards combusting at the oval when one of the, some mid-90s

teams, it must have been, we're beaten by England and I remember him almost shouting, you can talk the talk, you can't walk the walk, because one of everybody was shouting. And I knew what he meant, because I think he felt there were some still strutting around a bit, living on the past, and that

the great West Indians teams. And actually, what he was saying is actually, I'm sorry, lads, you guys don't come near to that. I mean, do you think that was what you're saying, has that changed? Well, it does change quite a bit because if I look back, if I'm back in the 70s, you know, the West Indies

team, they were always full of talent, Clive, Law and Riches, Hayes and Greenwich and the like. But they weren't as fit. That's what they bought in Dennis Waite. Yes. And from time they were... Australian physio, yeah. Australia, exactly.

He really started to get the middle shape. With them into shape, he was tough, but then you see the results after. So skills alone only take you so far. You've got to be physically fit to enjoy and go to distance because cricket is a hard sport. And Dennis Wade was real respect.

responsible. You know, I mean, look at the curry pocket era. Natural talent. But we kept losing. Why? Because we weren't fit enough. And for the time we got done its weight, there was a difference. Yeah. Do you sort of get that VIV attitude? I mean, is that something that you sort of just realized when you got there?

Because all I'll say is that having met and then interviewed a number of the West Indies test squad, again, only a few months ago, they seem a hell of a nice bunch of lads these fellas.

You know, they did seem very grounded and there wasn't any sort of strut or anything about that. The attitude seemed different. No, the test players, the current test players, you know, they're very, very humble and understanding

of where, where all this success started from. And, you know, they do look up to the legends of the game that the Westonies produced over that period of time from the late 70s, right through to the early 90s, mid-90s. And to live up to those standards is something that's going to be impossible. Yes. I know in Australia we still talk about, we're still looking for the next Shane Warren,

and we're looking for the next Glenn McGraw. We ain't going to find them because there's only one Shane Warren, and only one Glenn McGraths, there's only one Viv Richards, only one Curtley Ambrose. They're just not readily available, but what they do have is they've got passion for test cricket. Number one, they all want to play test cricket.

They've got passion to be the best they can possibly be at any given day. And once you have those two things, coupled with a little bit of, you know, a lot of natural ability, a bit of extra work on the outside, fine-tuning and what have you, there's the makings of a really good group of cricket, and that's what I see in the West Indies. You know, my time there, there's guys that aren't even in the setup

that are still very skillful. And now it's up to them to find a way to make sure they put numbers A on the board, but also do the right thing. Look after themselves off the field, get fitter, so they're able to do it for longer. And I'm sure the opportunities will come. There's immense talent.

The under 19 team goes to the World Cup every time from the West Indies, and they do really well. So the talent is there. So it's not a question of having to unearth and unlock, you know, an island where all this secret talent, it's there, it's in your face. It's just a matter of getting into a system. And I know, you know, working tirelessly with Jimmy Adams,

the director of cricket out there, Johnny Grave, the CEO, working hard to get a domestic structure that works and provides the young players with enough people around them to have the skill, to nurture this talent, and to make them step forward into, you know, international cricket. As Kurtley says, cricket's a tough game, hard game. Test cricket is the toughest on the planet. And it's very difficult to learn on the run.

If you haven't got a domestic structure that allows you to play hard-nosed cricket week in, week out during your season, you're never going to get ready for test cricket. And to learn on the run, you are going to have some floggings. You don't have cop it for a couple of years until you start getting those players who are able to do it. This team, current team here we're watching here today. They have got experience. They've got some guys they can fall back on, Chris Gale and Andre Russell.

Jason Holder's nearly there. He's played a lot of cricket. He's nearly there as one of those experienced players. One's not enough. You need quite a few in that group to make sure that they're, you know, nurturing the talent is brought through. And then they start succeeding on a world level. How do you see the development of Jason Hold? I mean, he was so young when he was made captain four years ago.

Do you see him having, do you look back at that? think that was a good decision to have made, a brave decision to have made, or might they have given him more of a chance to have played for it? It was a brave decision. I wasn't for it when he was selected to be the captain for the 2015 World Cup. We were in South Africa at the time, and they made him captain.

And at the time, Jason Holler wasn't even a regular member of the team. And I wasn't for it. One, he was too young, it wasn't a regular member, and I figured with all that talent, he needed to be, needed a couple of years to be a regular member of the team. first because I mean you can't be captain just for captain's sake

you got to be able to command your place in the team so I wasn't for it but a few years later he has really blossom come a long way got the team going the gel quite nicely and the thing has improved tremendously he's a tremendous young man a very very thoughtful character he's very much the big brother of the group he

everyone looks up to him he's been one of those leaders that by leading by example out in the field it through performance. He's definitely done that particularly in the test arena at home last year. He was outstanding and he has been getting better and better. He's been scoring

hundreds as well. So look his performances really started to improve which I think is a mark of a good leader because there's only so much he can say. If you're not going to go out there and do it yourself, your words become useless. So he

speaks what he does and he goes and lives it out on the cricket field and You know, as a leader, the amount of work he does by keeping everyone together. And as you say, you know, people from different cultures, different backgrounds, different islands, and to keep them all together. He does a fantastic job behind the scenes. We don't actually see a lot of it. When did you go back to the sort of the fast bowling route again?

There was a while that West Indies pitchers were slow and they were spinning and it was all going to be these spinners from Trinidad and Guyana coming in. And now you look at the team here. And it's back to the good old days again, isn't it? of sniffing the leather and all of that. So was that a conscious decision? Yeah, 100%. You know, my experiences around the world

and watching domestic cricket, international cricket, people say they like facing fast bowling. That's not true. No one likes it. Some play it better than others. And to have four, you know, big burly blocks running at your bowling 90 plus, it's not a very pleasurable experience.

So we said to couple with, That was the ideal. When I went in, I wanted to make sure that we had a stable of fast bowlers ready to go at any state during our home test series. And if we could have wickets that suited that style of play. So we needed a bit more grass than the wicket. We needed to have them firm. We needed to make sure that our batters were equipped for a short bowling as well. And it was a conscious decision to go down that road. And I've watched a bit of first class cricket in the Caribbean. And for me to see five overs of fast bowling one end, five overs, five o'ers, from the other end and then spin for the rest of the time. I just went, what, what's going on? Where am I? That's not what I remembered. I remembered, you know, hearing stories, you know, talking to people and experiencing it myself that no matter who you came up against,

you used to have the little caption underneath the player's name on TV, you know, Winston Benjamin, medium pace. There was nothing medium about his post. Kenny Benjamin, medium post. No, no, no, he was fast. So those guys, you know, that's how I wanted the West End. needs to play again, you know, to go out, you know, like they did emulate the heroes and challenge the young fast bowlers. I want you to bowl fast.

Hi, this is Josh Butler. Thanks for listening to the TMS podcast at the Cricket World Cup. I don't really listen to it because I enjoy the Peter Crouch one more. Terlenders is all right, but if it's only good, you can also email the team on TMS at bbccc.c.c. Put podcasts in the title and explain the rules of cricket to them. Laws of cricket. Thank you.