Test Match Special - Day 2: Pakistan batsmen and poor weather frustrate England

Episode Date: August 14, 2020

Jonathan Agnew presents from the Ageas Bowl on a frustrating day two for England in the 2nd Test against Pakistan. Rain and bad light meant only 40.2 overs were possible as the tourists reached 223-9 with Mohammad Rizwan unbeaten on 60. Michael Vaughan and Azhar Mahmood join Aggers to discuss whether England got their tactics wrong and, looking ahead, if Pakistan's bowling attack could swing the match in their favour. There's reaction from Stuart Broad and we hear from Warwickshire Chief Executive Stuart Cain about plans to have some fans at the T20 Blast Finals Day. There's also a classic View from the Boundary with Waleed Khan, who survived being shot six times in the head during a terrorist attack in Pakistan when he was just 12 years old.

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. To embrace the impossible requires a vehicle that pushes what's possible. Defender 110 boasts a towing capacity of 3,500 kilograms, a weighting depth of 900 millimeters and a roof load up to 300 kilograms. Learn more at landrover.ca. BBC Sounds, music, radio, podcasts. This is the TMS Podcast. from BBC Radio 5 Live.

I'm Jonathan Agnew. Welcome to the Test Match Special podcast, looking back at the second day of the second England-Pakistan test of the Ageas Bowl. It's another frustrating day with the weather, but there's still plenty to talk about. To come, we'll get the views of Michael Vaughn and Azamamud, and you'll hear from Stuart Broad,

and we'll also find out the latest on possible crowds attending more matches this summer. You're listening to the TMS podcast, from BBC Radio 5 Live. Close of play of the second day of this second test match in England and Pakistan at the Iges Boles

He's Pakistan on 223 for 9 after 86 over So basically now after two days We've basically lost a whole day's play Some can be made up But in acting too complicated With calculations Effectively

We've lost a whole day's play now Not to rain But to what has been judged To be bad light And that was obviously sparked All sorts of comment and criticism about whether the light is fit for play, whether it's unreasonable to play, whether it's dangerous to play.

It's the usual interpretation that has to be implemented by the umpires. And they have decided again, and not for the first time this summer, that play was not good enough. Muhammad Rizwan is 60 not out. And how well he's played, too. A real chirpy character, and he's held this lower order together. He and Mohamed Abbas put on 39 together. He, of course, batting at number 10,

and he was eventually out elbow-de-broad for just two out of that stand of 39 and we'll talk about England's tactics during that moment I'm sure along with Michael Vaughan and Asa Mahmoud who are sitting alongside it just to run through the event so basically Baba Azam was caught behind off Stuart Broad for

47 Yasashar made five he was caught behind off James Anderson Shahina Freed he hung around for a while but then he fell victim for the second time not him but Sibley's second direct hit runout in two matches

which is a good effort. Again, it's quite long range and Shania Friedi stranded was out for naught and then Muhammad Abbas as described LBW to Broad. England regrouped after T basically. They've got things back on track again set some sensible fields and this one was pitched up from Broad, knitback hit number 10 in front

out for two. So 223 for 9 all a bit frustrating if you just love your cricket and want to see some play frankly Anderson's taken 3 for 48 Stuart Broad 3 for 56 Sam Curran 1 for 44 and Chris works 1 455 so where should we start let's start with Michael Vaughn then shall we and what's your assessment of what's happened here today well I think we're in for even though there's been a lot of cricket loss I think it's a test match that all results are still possible because of the surface the conditions I think Pakistan should be very very proud of the way that they fought played with great discipline skill because there's so much action out there there's so much action out there's so

much swing. There's so much seam. You know, Mohammed Rizwan has played a blinder, really, to get Pakistan up to this 2.23. They get another 10 or 15. I would say they're not too far off par in terms of what they've had to batting. And then you look at the lights of Nassim Shah, Shaheen Afridi,

Mohammed Abbas on this kind of wicket, if they get it right, you know, if it carries on like this, and I believe the forecast is very similar for a few days, a team will get bored out very cheaply. You know, because I think there will be a session where the outside edges are found

as long as you take your chances. I'm not too sure which innings it will be, but I do think there'll be an innings that potentially a team will get bowed out cheaply on this kind of surface. England had a similar spell this afternoon to a couple of spells that I thought they had in Manchester where they just seem to just switch off

and they just allow the game to Miranda along and tactically it didn't look quite right. Then all of a sudden the break comes and they come out with different tactics, which suggests to me that the coach has sat down and going, what are you doing? get back to the basics of the game. That's a bit of a concern for me with his test team,

that it happens quite consistently that they seem to lose track of what is required out in the middle. It takes a break or a moment for them to suddenly go back into the dressing room and the coaches to sit with them and go, just cover the basics. There's no way of getting a message out. I mean, you see the tough man running out with gloves for a baton, don't you, and saying get on with it or something

because they pass the gloves over that aren't really put on. Isn't there a way that a coach can get a message out to the captain and say, what is going on? sort things out and someone comes out and passes the message on and then goes back into the dressing room

well yeah you could you could have that situation but you'd like to think when you've got so much experience out in the middle you've got

Joe Routon as captain into his 43rd or 44th game as a captain you've got Stuart Broad and Jimmy Anderson who played hundreds of test matches

together you know it's surprising me that we do continuously have moments where the team don't seem to be getting the tactics right Pakistan are back in the game

No question about that. England are going to have to fight hard with the bat tomorrow because you would expect, particularly Mohammed Abbas, to be a real handful on this wicket. Yes. Go on then, Azza. I thought 1.80 all out would be something that England would have been looking for today. At one stage, Pakistan, what, 176 for 8 when Shahim has run out for naught.

That still feels to be quite below par, but they've come clawing back. And I wonder how you think, 223, say they get, I don't know, 240, something like that, that would be a reasonable score under the circumstances? Yeah, if they can manage to get another 15, 20 runs, that'll be crucial. But I thought Rezwan played really well and he was very sensible. When ball was doing and hooping around, he was stick with Barbar Azam and they shown some great discipline, good technique and great temperament. And when Rezwan was running out of the partner and then he started to play a few shots

and at that period when Michael said, you know, England changed their plans and we saw three men back on the boundary and changed their length and which allowed Mohamed Rezvan to get extra bit of runs and we saw I think Shaheen betted 19 minutes, 19 ball without any runs and a pass 19 ball for two runs only and allow Rezwan to get 30, 40 runs added which was really crucial. One stage I was thinking, you know, 180,

Pakistan will bowl out of 180. And then a little bit planned change from England helped Pakistan. Tell us a bit about Muhammad Rizvanka. I mean, he's not a young man. He's 28, isn't he? And he's been, this is his eighth test. But was he always likely to be the man

who took Safrasu's place? Yes, he was around with the team for, I think, four, five years. And he played under, In Sarfraz was batting, he played as a batsman in New Zealand one of the games. So Mickey Arthur used to really like him, his temperament and he's a hardworking guy and always does something for the team and one of the fittest guy in Pakistan team. And he's always been there.

But unfortunately, Sir Fraz was captain for the last four years and he couldn't get his chance. But every time before the World Cup, he got an opportunity to play against Australia when Sirfraz was arrested and he got back-to-back hundred against Australian bowling line up. I know it was Sharjah, Dubai, which is, but he managed to get those runs. And he was the highest run scorer against Lions last year when they were playing the series. And he was way ahead of every other batsman who played in that series. So he's there and he deserved to be in this situation. I always seen him playing some shot.

But today I was really impressed with his temperament. technique and discipline. He looks like one of those typically spiky. We could keep a bats from batting at number seven winds you up. He's a bit chirpy behind the stumps and he scores really useful runs. Yeah, and today I thought he played perfectly because he was

just hanging in there. When Baba Azam was out there, he just knew that Baba was playing with great control. Maybe learnt a little bit from the way Babba played. He was just leaving outside off, stump waiting for the straight ball. It's not a pitch or it hasn't played in a way that you think that a player could come out there and start

driving it on the up from ball one and you know if you take high-risk options on here you know I don't think many will survive too long but when he got down to you know the lights of Shahina fried and now Mohammed Abbas he had to take the gamble that that shot to Chris wokes when he danced down and pulled it over midwicket that was a terrific shot and he's a competitor you know behind the stumps is noisy but he's very very good he catches pretty much everything and when you are a chirpy play you've got to back it up with performance and so far you know in this game in particular with the bat

he's just giving Pakistan a glimmer of hope because Pakistan got bowled out and I think England should have bowed Pakistan out in the conditions that they'd bowl if they'd feel it a bit better

for about 150 so they've already allowed Pakistan to get a score that is a bit more than they should have done and you just know with this Pakistan bowling line-up if they get it right tomorrow

in England just have one of those days where they're not quite switched on and they play a few loose shots one thing's for sure with the England test match team it can be bowed out cheap We've seen it a lot in the past, particularly when the ball does a bit.

So I do think this partnership's been crucial, and Rizwan's given Pakistan a real good chance tomorrow of causing a little bit of chaos in the England batting line up. Let's just get clear what happened then with England today, and it's saying it has happened before. You get a batsman who's playing well, number seven in this case Rizwan, and he's obviously playing quite carefully because the conditions demand that. Then suddenly you get the number 10 come out,

you know isn't very good. and so you suddenly, the plans need to change again, right, that's it, so we're going to just deny Rizwan strike if it can, deny him boundaries if it can, men go out, we've got to try and make sure that we get the number 10 on strike. And suddenly the basic element of running up and bowling the line and length, they've got you the wickets in the first place, and it's had Rizwan in trouble, and we talked about the drive being the most dangerous shot possibly

in these conditions with the ball going away. That's gone, three men go out. It's like a complete, hang on, what's going on here. like you all the sort of blow a whistle and say stop stop what's going on and that's what happened this afternoon yeah absolutely right i mean it's always easier from from arsah when you take away the emotions of actually the game situation you're not involved we're just seeing it and you know 11 years i've not been involved but the more i watch cricket the more i understand that you just keep it dead simple and when teams start spreading the field i did it on a few occasions and got it wrong

and i understand from the captaincy point of view that it's difficult to you that it's difficult but the more that they could listen to people that are emotionally attached the better they'll become because you just don't need to spread it. You know, third man they put down and that was the right decision because Rizan was swinging. The top edge could easily have gone down. He's played a couple of ramp shots,

fine leg back, square leg back, but then ringed field on a pitch like this and if he plays a few shots on the up through extra cover, you've got to just accept that, you know, he's played some wonderful shots and, you know, it does surprise me that this England side was so much, experience in the bowling department because you got around

the fingers always pointed at the captain but Jimmy Anderson and Stuart Broad his most captains bowling due with more wickets than anybody would Joe Root stand to say just say that it's one of those two saying right that's it man back there's a man back of deep square leg is Joe Root still able

to say to them no Stuart or no Jimmy you're not having that we're going to stick to this this plan that's got us this far yeah he's a captain he should be able to and should override any tactics that he doesn't think is right. That's why you're the captain.

But it does surprise me with that combination of so much quality, so much expertise that, you know, on their watch, which is the team on their watch at the minute out in the field, it does surprise me that they do go for this tactic far too soon too often. Easily done, isn't it, Asa, you'll have been there as well? Yeah, I was involved in one of these situations in myself, not one of these, but quite a few, where your tailander comes in and you suddenly start thinking,

of bowling to tail end and give the proper batsman a single and you know try to bowl and suddenly you change your plans it's always happened and it's still happening in this game as well so my question is if barber was playing with his once you're going to change the tactic you're not going to change the tactics yeah that's what i'm saying and well pitch is doing so much you know if you hit the areas and it's always there we saw 80 overall ball was hooping around and doing a lot and ball does a lot in this innings and why do you want to change that

yeah we can easily we can sit down and say things like that it's different when you on the field and making those I mean again the more that you watch the game from this perspective which again isn't emotionally attached the more you understand it

as soon as you switch to that tactic you mentally said that you don't really believe you're going to get that batsman out unless he makes a big error yes that is the psychological shift that you allow the opposing team and then the massive gaps and they're not the ones and the twos and you know on a wiki like this it's doing plenty you know 10 runs is a lot of runs yes you know 10 runs is a huge amount of runs

so don't allow them these easy ones and twos and you know and also have the mindset of top of off stump got to bowl them out and you have to get ris one out that's that's the mindset I would try and portray to the team is they always have the mindset on pitch slides you've got to get whoever's facing got to get them out. Don't allow them to kind of think that you're giving them belief and them confident to think that you can't get them out

by spreading the field and, you know, they've done it a lot, you know. It's not just that it's a one-off. They have had this tactical maneuver quite often in that's much cricket. It's interesting also, when you know, when you're the bowler, even if you're vastly experienced, when you've only got two balls to bowl up, and you finally get the number 10

or 11 down on strike, he sort of tense up, how much, I've got to get him out, I've got to get him out, and suddenly again, again, you're thinking, you slightly lose that discipline and he almost feel yourself tense up because you know you've only got those two balls. A short ball, okay, it might soften him up possibly but it's probably a wasted ball.

He's probably not going to bowl the bounce that he would when he get the full over at him. In fact, Stuart Broad did that, didn't he? When he had finally a full over at a bass, he gave him a short couple, he didn't want to do it earlier on. So it's amazing. Even at the highest level, you can just get a little bit scrambled

and they go off for tea, come back, and it's completely back normal again and of course they got they got the wicket I'm looking forward to seeing Pakistan Baltimore I mean whatever they get with the bat is one thing but the thoughts of

the two young lads tearing in Muhammad Abbas are horrible wobbly tantalizing teasing medium pace he could be really tricky on there yeah he will be a handful on this pitch

because of his line and land the area he bowls around four five meters and which we saw England, most of the England wicket came on that sort of area where they bowl that one and he will bowl all day in that area and he can bowl long spell and then the other end

you've got Shahin Shah Fridi who can swing the ball, seam the ball and late swing as well with a new ball as well and then ah boy Naseem Shah if he's running in and you know as you mentioned you know if extra pace we'll do some... Well we don't know what it's going to do with some balls bounce quite a lot

alarmingly, don't you? Mohammed Abbas's record for Leicestershire was ridiculous and these are the kind of wickets

that he would have bowled on. A county pitch that's just got plenty of action. We've seen the duke ball swinging up until the 80th

over and maneuvering itself off the seam. So I can't imagine it's not going to suddenly do that. No. Again, sleepless nights

for the opening batsman. I'm sorry, I wouldn't be able to sleep tonight knowing that I'm going to face Mohamed Abass on that. I've seen Mohamed Abbas. I was a bowling coach

at that time. He got 10 for against. Australia in Abu Dhabi pitch. So because of his line and length and asking question, hitting those thumps and he bowled with a really straight line in those pitches. How did we get them? LBW mainly?

LBW bowl and caught behind as well. This is the kind of wicket as it, isn't it? Abbas could win Pakistan a test match on this wicket. I would love to bowl on this one. You're licking your lips, aren't you? But I'm sure if you are now, I think Abbas will be this evening

thinking about what he could do on that wicket if he gets it right. He very rarely gets it wrong. No. The TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live. Let's get some reaction for the England camp. Stuart Broad has been speaking to Simon Mann. Well, Stuart, what sort of day was that for you and the team?

I mean, after losing the toss, I think any time you get a team 220 for nine, you're pretty happy. But I also feel like if we had taken a couple more chances and been a bit more ruthless with the ball, we could have boiled Pakistan out a bit cheaper but we've controlled the rate really nicely we need to make sure we get this wicket early tomorrow

so we don't undo a lot of the hard work we've done does it feel like with this pitch that there's a result out there you know I know the weather's around is causing problems but there's enough happening absolutely it feels like a result pitch we're just struggling with the weather and the light at the moment that's two days gone with only one innings gone So obviously we are up against it time-wise.

But, you know, it's in our hands. I think here at the Adjiazbo, the stats say that the first innings runs are normally outdone by the second innings. So that's our opportunity to bat. So it would be in our hands to try and go past Pakistan and put their next innings under pressure. I don't expect you to comment on the umpire's decision taking the players off for light. But at a general point, do you think it's time to have a look at light regulations in test cricket? you know, coming off a bad light? It's a tricky one because players' safety is very important.

If you've got bowlers bowling at 85 plus mile an hour, and it's gloomy out there. It can be dangerous for batsmen and me as bowlers. You're keen to bowl all the time, aren't you? Especially in conditions like today. But I think the officials were right to bring us off, actually, because it dropped below the darkness that we came off earlier in the day. and you know I think all of our fielders were walking off going you know

we wouldn't want to bat in this this is quite dark there's certainly been occasions in test cricket where we've been off the field and there's been a crowd in where we felt like we could have been on the pitch but today's been gloomy all day and it has just felt like it's just been on that slightly dark side of being suitable to play what about bringing in a pink ball in situations like that I mean one or two suggested a shame warn has said it Michael Vaughn has said it put it out there as a possibility.

Yeah. Would that alter the balance of the match too much? Yeah. Situation like, you know, bringing the pink ball. I don't agree with that at all. How old would the pink ball be? Well, the same as the ball we're using, I suppose. You have a box of balls.

You know, one is 10 over's old, one is 20 over's old, one is 40 over's old. I think we've seen with the history of the pink ball under the floodlights. It's been very tricky for batsmen. So I think it would be an unfair balance to the game. You know, if you were 300 for three and it got a bit dark and the pink ball came out, you could lose five for ten if it really swung around like it can do. We've seen an Adelaide, etc. under the light. So I think that's probably going a bit too far and complicating the situation a bit too much.

At the end of the day, if the player's safety is in doubt, then the officials have to bring the players off. If the players feel safe and the officials feel like it's safe for the players to play, then you play. your bowling. I mean, you've had a memorable summer. You took your 500th wicket. But how proud were you of that delivery that got Barbara Zam? Yeah, it was a nice boy. He's a really classy player. You can see

a few of the shots he played, had some real style about him. So we knew he'd be a big wicket. He was leaving really well outside of stump, I thought. So I came a little bit tighter to the stumps to see if I could get him playing with a straight bat and it just nipped away nicely. So, yeah, I was really

pleased with that. To be honest, I felt a great rhythm all summer. One of those some is that you don't want to finish. Yeah. You know, I've been running in well. I feel like I've been threatening the stumps. Things have been going my way as a player. And when that's happening, you want to wrap it in cotton wool

and make it last as long as possible. But we're also realistic as sports people and know that that doesn't ever seem to happen. Yeah, it's like a batsman who scores lots of hundreds. You know, there's bound to be nought there somewhere around the corner. Just one thing, one tactical thing. You know, towards the end of an innings, when there's one player in, like Mohammed Rizwanans,

and you've got the new ball. and you put the field back and you have to bowl at a batsman with the field back. I mean, what's that like as a bowler? Do you, it never to be lack a bit of intensity because you've got four balls the overwin? In a sense, it's not the same as when the field is up. It's a tough one, and I think, you know,

I'd be interested to hear a few of the pundits' opinions on what's best because I've not seen any of it really work over long periods of time. If you keep the field in with a batsman on 60 and they've got a license, then you can leak 30, 40 runs really quickly. If you put everyone out, very unlikely that a batsman on 60 will just chip it to a fielder on the boundary. So it's a really tough tactical decision, and I've seen it many a time. And I still don't really know what the right way is to go, because the last thing you want to do is leak 40 cheap runs

when you've battled so hard to control the rate through the test match so far. you almost you want to bowl a really good ball and get a genuine dismissal but there's something that lacks a bit of intensity of having everyone on the boundary but then also I've seen batsmen make mistakes and just pull one straight down deep square legs throat

with that as well so yeah I don't have an answer for that really because I just don't know what the best way is to go just a tough one for the captain really and bowlers it's the bowlers choice what to do really but it just feels when a batsman has a complete licence with the field up and they're on 60 and in,

top class international players can generally clear the infield. You wouldn't bold an ODI with every fielder up, would you, with someone on 60? So it's a tricky one, but there was enough in that pitch to feel like you'd want to keep two or three slips in. You just need to really make use of your two or three balls at the number 10 and 11 and make them count. This is the TMS podcast from BBC Radio. at lunch today we played a classic view from the boundary it came from 2018 during the test

match between england and pakistan at headingly then 16 years old walid khan joined us to tell us one of the more extraordinary and emotional stories that we've ever heard on tms four years earlier wali had been a student at the pashawa army school in pakistan when he survived a terrorist attack that killed 135 of his school friends and 20 of his teachers while he had shot eight times, six times in the face and head. He had years of reconstructive surgery in Pakistan and England. He told me how difficult it had been for him to recover emotionally as well as physically from what had happened to him. It was quite difficult because in the starting days, once I was crying,

I remember that when I was in ICU and I was crying for my friends. And I was crying and my mom was sitting with me. and she told me at that time that if you cry will your friends come back by that? I said no so she said that it's better not to cry now

and you should do something for them because you have survived now miraculously so now it's your duty God has saved your life for a purpose now and the purpose of your life should be alive with the purpose now and you should do something for your friends to keep them alive forever

in the hearts of people and that's your mother all a remarkable too. Wow. She is a great mentor to me, a great support to me. It was like it was quite difficult but as I said like people like my mother and my father and the friends, family friends like Kasi Inka and all other friends like the whole nation and the whole world it was unbelievable like in the start I used to think like There's no humanity left on this earth.

After this incident, I used to think, but when I see people around the world and the way they show me respect, they show me love, and they show us, like, support, it was unbelievable. And it was like, I still, now I believe that there is humanity, there is humanity, and people can feel the pain. When people can feel your pain, the way they supported us.

They supported us like their own children. Like, I'm in every country. Every country in the world supported us, like their own children, and they showed support to us. You have every right to be a very angry young man. Yeah. Full of rage at what's happened and what you saw. You know, the thing was, at first, it was in my mind that in the starting days, I was thinking that I will take revenge of my friends and my revenge,

and I will join military or Air Force, and I will take my revenge. But then I thought that what will happen if I will take revenge? What will happen? Like, I will kill their children and then tomorrow their children will grow up and they will kill my children and then my children will grow up and they will kill their children. And this war

will be going on for generations. So it's better to finish this war with the perfect solution. And I think the best solution for this is to give them education, educate their mind. They are not educated. They are being manipulated by wrong people. Those children who are doing this,

don't know about, they don't know anything. They haven't seen the world around them. They are just, they just believe what they have been showed all the way, all their lives. Brainwashed, really? Yeah, they are being brainwashed by them. So the only solution for them is, like, the only solution to this is to educate their minds, educate them, educate their children. Because with guns and with bullets, we can only kill a terrorist, but with education, I believe we can kill terrorism. Wise words from a young man who suffered such trauma.

That was Walid Khan who survived a terrorist attack in Pakistan when he was just 12, speaking in a classic view from the boundary. The whole podcast is still available to download on BBC Sounds. You're listening to the TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live. The government's announced that spectator test events can resume and we could see fans at domestic cricket games later this year. There's especially hope we could have fans at the T20 Blast Finals Day, which is scheduled to be held at Edgebaston in October. Warwickshire are looking at the possibility of 8,000 supporters being allowed into the ground for that. I spoke to their new chief executive, Stuart Kane, during tea.

Now, Warwickshire hosted an open day earlier in the summer, but was he in place by then? I started on the Monday, and then we had a test pilot on the Tuesday, and then I've got a phone call Monday night to say the sports minister's dropping by as well. So it was like, oh, crack. So, yeah, it was an interesting 48 hours, but we did do a pilot. We got about 1,500 people into Edgebaston, and it worked really, really well.

And as I say, the sports minister came was pretty happy with how it went, along with a bunch of people from DCMS. So I think we've proved that we can stage a small event, as did the Oval. So I think cricket's shown that it can lead away in sort of getting crowds back. We're now, things have been eased up a bit

with the snooker tonight, and hopefully we can get some more test pilots, set up. It's a great chance for us to have another go because we were hoping to get a bigger crowd in for the first game for the Bob Willis Trophy. Get about two and a half thousand people into Edgebaston, but obviously that got pulled when Boris announced the news that things were getting slightly worse. So you've just got to respect that and roll with it, as I say, because you can't put anyone's health in danger, but I think we've found a way to manage crowds through the first pilot. We just need to work now and find a way to get a second pilot and hopefully

we prove that we can safely get a bigger crowd in for the blast. Yeah. What did you actually have to prove on that test day? You said the sports minister was there, but what did you have to show them that you could do or what was needed to be done? Yeah, there's different bits to. I mean, the first thing you have to do is prove to the local authorities

and the local communities that it's safe to have a crowd. Because if you think you've got, whether it be 1,500, 2,500 or 8,000 people can edge baston, you've got to make sure that doesn't impact the local community. So we work very closely with Burling City Council, Public Health, England, the Blue Light Services, and local councillors, just to put in place the right processes for how the crowd get to Edgebaston. And that's looking at things like car parking provision, public transport, working with the local shops and things like that. Because if you suddenly have a shop across the road from Edgebaston, where another two, 300 people turn up, can they manage that? So that was the first step is working with the local community and the local authorities and proving that we could operate.

safely outside the venue. The second bit is about ticketing and it sounds really simple when you're sitting in a pub talking about it oh I'll just knock out every second seat or something but when you've got software that's pre-built and you've got online ticketing systems and people could buy one, two, three or four tickets

then we gave our software developers a bit of a headache but they rose to the challenge and built something that worked but equally we had to take everyone's names and addresses because if you think mostly when you buy tickets online mine, the person who buys a ticket gives their card details and address details, but you might buy four tickets for mates. But with this, we had to get everyone's name and address. So again, that was quite a big piece of software work.

You don't say know where people have come from as well, as well as those actually who are in contact with each other. Yeah, we need to really be able to show that we could track and trace. So if we do end up with four or five thousand people in edge bastard and God forbid anything happens, it gives the chance to get in touch with them all and manage the sort of the, the, outflow of that. So that was a big part of it. But then it's about how do you manage people inside the stadium? So there's different bits to that really. First of all, how do you get them into the stadium? Because you have to think whether it be a football stadium, rugby stadium or cricket,

there are pinch points, aren't there? Sort of when people go to the turnstiles, that's a pinch point. When people are walking out into the stands, that's a bit of a pinch point, the bars, the toilets, the food areas. It's how you manage those more than anything. Because actually, edgebrasson holes 25,000 so getting 8,000 people to sit in the right seat isn't particularly difficult as long as you manage it properly with the stewards

it's if at tea they all decide to go and get a beer or they want the toilet, how do you manage that? So that was what we spent a lot of time thinking about was people flows, how do we get people into areas safely, how do we make sure there are enough hand sanitizers,

how do we manage cues for the loos and all that sort of thing? Which I know sounds really boring and you're probably sitting there thinking what's he going on about We're used to it, don't we? That's the stuff that's quite important, particularly when DCMS and the government were trying to work out,

okay, well, can you make it work at small numbers? Because at some point we've got to make it work in bigger numbers in cricket, but also, okay, what could old Trafford or Stanford Bridge learn from this when they start to look at bigger crowds coming back into sport? So they were the sort of things that we were thinking about. But there's the playing side as well, because you've got to manage the players health and safety. So how do you sanitise the ball?

the 12th man, how do they take the drinks out safely? When you have breaks, are the rooms clean? How do the players have lunch? Because the old-fashioned sort of put a big buffet out and people help themselves, you can't do that now. So serving socially distanced lunch for players, how do you look after the umpires and stop them getting grumpy and all that sorts of.

And I would imagine, Stuart, the people who came to that trial, it came because they wanted to be there and they wanted it to work, and therefore they were on your side and they weren't getting grumpy with stewards and they were doing what they were told. yeah and I think most people are pretty level-headed now aren't they a lot of them are wearing masks they're all using the hand sanitizer they all understand they had a part to play and I think whatever sport that's going to be a message

for everyone coming to sport moving forward the venue can only do so much we do need some help from the fans coming in and there has to be a degree of personal responsibility and accountability but as we can provide the right framework for that but then you've got to help us out I'm trying to picture Edgbaster with a restricted number and presumably you've been there on a full house have you and you've experienced the Holley's stand

and everything else. I don't lie to you. I've experienced too much of the Hollis stand in the past on days but it's an interesting place but yes I know Edgbaston well as a cricket fan over the years because I'm a Midlander by birth so I know that well and it's interesting because we've got to be thinking about for the blast in particular if you do get a small crowd in

how do you try and create an atmosphere because you know what Edge Baston's like when it's rocking for the finals day and we won't be able to do that with people so how can we work with Sky and how can we look at the size of the crowd that we've got and create an atmosphere but do it in a respectful way to the cricket

because when you watch the football some people love the Piping crowd and always some people hate it. So it just types of interesting challenges but I think speaking to some of the players I think they'd like to get a crowd and even if it's small because I think the players do feed off it,

particularly in the blast format. Where are you today, as far as crowds possibly coming into Edgebast at some stage, not necessarily talking about finals day at the moment, but just in the blast itself. At the moment, as you and I sit here, what do you think, realistically,

you might be able to do? Well, we had the second pilot event, Paul, as I mentioned, so we're just working with the ECB who are talking to government about, Can we get that second pilot put back on? If we can, it's just about which game then. And it does make sense that if we do a pilot, it should be around a blast game

because that's the best way of making sure that we're ready for having a bigger crowd in in October for the finals. So hopefully over the next week it will become a bit clearer about what we can do, what the regulations are that we've got to abide to, and then which game is that we should go for. Because as we talked about earlier, there's a lot for us to get aligned from working with the council through to selling the ticket.

get through to getting the stadium ready. So we did need a little bit of notice to do that. But we're ready to go as soon as we know what the rules are. The TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live. That's the Warwick, Chief Executive, Stuart Kane. You can watch highlights on the iPlayer or the BBC Sport website. And we're back on air at 10.15 for the third day, hoping for better weather. BBC Sounds, music, radio, podcasts.