Test Match Special - Day 4: Bad weather frustrates England and Anderson

Episode Date: August 24, 2020

Jonathan Agnew presents from the Ageas Bowl, where there was more frustration for everyone as rain and bad light meant a truncated fourth day between England and Pakistan in the 3rd Test. Following-on, the tourists reached 100-2, still 210 behind, but with the opportunity to save the match if they can bat out the final day. James Anderson took one of those dismissals to move to 599 Test wickets. However, with the forecast looking poor once again, could the rain thwart his bid for 600? Aggers and Mark Ramprakash discuss how important it might be for Anderson to reach that milestone tomorrow and we hear from England head coach Chris Silverwood. Lastly, a panel including Michael Vaughan and Ebony Rainford-Brent debate who has been England's player of the summer.

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. Bring more gear, carry more passengers, face greater challenges. Welcome to the world of Defender, with seating up to eight, ample cargo space and legendary off-road capability. It's built to make the most of every adventure. Learn more at landrover.ca. BBC Sounds, music, radio, podcasts. This is the TMS Podcast. from BBC Radio 5 Live. I'm Jonathan Agnew and welcome to the Test Match Special podcast.

We'll reflect on a frustrating day for England and Jimmy Anderson in a moment who's stranded on 599 wickets. We'll hear from Mark Rambrakesh and the England coach Chris Silverwood and ahead of the final day of the series we'll discuss who's been England's Player of the Summer. You're listening to the TMS podcast

from BBC Radio 5 Live. We'll begin our review of the series. day such as it was, it was a truncated day again, in which frankly it didn't really move on very far either, even when there was play. But the close of play of the fourth day of the final test between England and Pakistan at the Aegeas Boleses. Pakistan closed on a hundred for two, bad light stop play. They're 210 runs behind Asraeli the captain, is there on 29 not out, and Baba Azam on four not out. Pakistan, of course, began their second innings today, the very start of it. And there was that question about whether Azar Ali, who walked out last night to open the innings,

would open again. But as we discovered, those of us like me who didn't know the law, I'm sorry, I put my hand up for that. I always thought that the battsman's innings started when he walked onto the field. Well, it does, apart from the opening batsman. And there, innings starts when the umpire calls play. So he took the option that was available to him not to open. and so the regular two did so Sean Massoud and Abid Ali

and once again there's a drop catch off Jimmy Anderson and this time it was Joss Butler and it was not a difficult cast at all and he didn't get a glove on it in fact there's a straightforward nick behind when Massoud had three down it went

and I think Jimmy is so phlegmatic about the situation now that he shrugged his shoulders and moved on Massoud eventually was Elbow to Broad playing no stroke for 18 that was 49 for one

and then Jimmy Anderson did take his 599th wicket when he had Abid Ali LBW for 42 but they couldn't break through again the bad light came down

Joe Ruta had to take him off and so we simply hope and he'll be hoping that there's going to be play tomorrow but there's Storm Francis on its way and this I think is the forerunner of that all this low cloud at the moment

and it's a serious possibility looking at the forecast that there could be no play tomorrow, and if there is, it's going to be searly shortened. It's really shortened because of the weather. So Mark Rambakash is alongside, I'll be looking thoughtful.

It's funny how even in the sort of really quiet stages of a Tesma hatch in which nothing seems to be going on, there's usually a subplot. And that was a fascinating one and it's a subplot that could almost turn into a tragedy.

Yes, I mean, from Jimmy's point of view, absolutely. I mean, he bowled well this morning but you know not easy for a 38 year old to come back after a day's bowling and he didn't quite have

the same zip on and a round off stump he didn't quite get the same lateral movement and then he bent his back and bowed a couple of short balls into the body of Abidali so just to remind everyone that he can get the ball

through and but he didn't really have luck and what he did show was his versatility why I think he's partly why he's been such a fantastic performer for England is that

when he came back at the far end of the pavilion end with the older ball trying to look for a bit of reverse swing into the right hander. He had drive men on the offside, two short mid wicket guys just there for the clip in the air

and he bowls that very effectively and he has done that in the past in UAE and Sri Lanka and places where the wickets have been flat and not much happening. So I think that and of course that paid off with the wicket of Abidali so he's adaptability

I mean he had amazing longevity to his career but normally the best players I also think they play for so long and they are successful because they can adapt yeah yeah but people who are shouting for goodness sake he's got 599 600 doesn't matter

but it does matter because it's cricket and cricket's all about numbers and listen look at our friend over there his life revolves around cricket numbers and I don't think Andy Zolson could sleep if there's, if there's Jimmy Anderson's been dangling on 599. It isn't tidy, is it? No, it's, be awful.

The awful world was hit by an asteroid and he was left there for all time. Exactly. I mean, it is of that significant. So it does matter. The cover's coming on and now the umbrellas are going up. So clearly that will be it. They won't get out there and play anymore. And then it's just a question of crossing fingers.

And of course, how they've done. teammates will fit all those that drop the catches. It just adds to this, adds to the drama. Yeah, and I think, you know, with tomorrow, obviously it's in the balance where they'll get out. The outfield is already very, very wet. There are areas in the footmarks where the bowlers have been running in, have got sawdust on. If there is a large volume of water that drops during the night and early morning, you know, it could well be that this game, there is no further play. And then, of course, you know, we are in the middle of a pandemic. You know, will England tour? Will Jimmy Anderson be asked to play? I mean there's

a lot of conversations about well what's the point of using Jimmy Anderson on flat unresponsive wickets perhaps in UAE or in Colombo in Sri Lanka I mean it's you know I'll throw something then which might be completely stupid it probably is at this time of the day

but do you think that the selectors are just hoping it gets this wicket and then it tidies that up and then they can then select them if they want to with a totally blank sheet of paper and clear heads and no pressure whatsoever to have to pick him to get this one wicket. Is this one wicket that influential, do you think?

I think it is. The reason I say that is because I think England will, they talked about, the England management and selectors talked about a vision of trying to transition away from this over-reliance, quite frankly, on Jimmy Anderson and Stuart Broad. Now, look, Jimmy, in his last four years, his average has been going down. He's been getting better and better.

But the fact is, father time waits for nobody. If he can get this 600th wicket, who knows when England's next test match will be? Hopefully they'll get cricket in this winter, but it may be next summer. And then, you know, you really start to ask yourself, you know, how are we going to manage Jimmy Anderson's, you know, move away from the game? Basically, retirement. It's got to happen sooner or later. I would hate it to be unsatisfactory.

For someone who's been such a great servant, you know, there needs to be a managing of that situation. I know that he's put the ball back in the selectors, you know, court, if you like, but, you know, you just can't go on forever. And I think the selectors will be very happy if he can get that last wicket tomorrow. It's crazy. I mean, sport is all romanticised things like this,

but it is just part of it, isn't it? It is just so much an integral part of all sport, in fact. Yes. But it seems particularly cricket. Yes. We've seen recently M.S. Donia, of course, he went out, you know, in complete contrast to Satchentendulka, who almost had a test series arranged for him, which is quite something. And then M.S. going out, you know, sort of under the radar, typical hymn. But, you know, Alistair Cook, I witnessed his ending, you know, ending his international career in a wonderful style at the Oval.

and I would love to see that for Jimmy Anderson I think he's earned it I think we owe it to him I just hope it's it works out in the right way but you know international sport is just sometimes it doesn't but if we can

if the selectors can help manage that for him I would love to see that it's like the Bradman scenario at the Oval isn't it I mean just couldn't quite get to thunder but anyway who knows what's going to happen here or in the future

I can't do that now it's raining and so the covers are coming on there will be no more play today let's keep our fingers crossed about what we might get tomorrow just some thoughts about today then Mark there but I mean isn't it been a feature also this summer

that after 20, 30 overs not every time but a lot of these pitches and balls that seem to have gone lifeless yes yes absolutely I think the reason for that is certainly old Trafford and this one they've been pretty dry actually you know when you've gone out there at the start of the game the old Trafford match and and this one so the first and third test matches against

Pakistan when the captains walked out they wouldn't have been deliberating too much they were very straightforward decisions of bat first the surfaces were dry white and you knew that they would have that natural wear and tear and the spinners would come into the game as the game wore on not so the second test match here which that's that had good pace and bounce. But I think watching the game today, you know, again, there's a little bit of an illustration of how difficult England find it

to penetrate on these types of surfaces. And, you know, they attacked the top of off brilliantly in the first innings and had Pakistan 30 for four. But then they found it very, very difficult, didn't they? When the ball went softer, to try and make things happen. Of course, Dominic Bess is getting matches under his belt,

more experience. I thought he was very tidy today. They're trying to get him to be more confident to perhaps throw it a little bit wider of off-stump. But to do that, he needs to be accurate. But, you know, England have invested in him, but he's not going to just ruck up and suddenly take Fyfer on a pretty,

still a pretty good batting pitch. This is the TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live. Thanks, Mark Rappakash. Let's hear from the England camp and the coach Chris Silverwood has been speaking to Daniel Norcross. We saw how hard it was to take wickets today. That pitch had sort of deadened up, hadn't it? It has.

I mean, it shows the importance of, you know, making use of that new ball as well. Once the ball goes a bit softer, the wicket has lost its zip a little bit. As you quite rightly said, it becomes harder to take those wickets, so I'll create those chances. But I can't fault the effort

or the attitude of the players out there. I mean, they've kept running in. You know, we've kept working hard and, I mean, try to create those chances. Well, we saw some very specific plans as well, the bouncer barrage, if you like, from Joffra Archer and Sue at Broad. something that you'd plan to do or is it just something that happens organically when

you're looking around on a daylight today? Well, you have various plans. Obviously, you have plan A, plan B, and sometimes a plan C really. You know what I mean? If we know if we're going to go that way, these are the fields we're going to have. We know who's going to try and implement those plans as well. But the one thing you have to do is if you're going to do it, you've got to commit 100% to it. Word on Dominic Best, because he's not had a lot of time with the ball for various circumstances in the last couple of games. So it was clear once you decided you were going to take the follow-on strategy, he was going to be going to going to have to do a lot of work and he did do a lot today.

How did you feel he bowled? I thought he bowed well. I thought he settled into a good rhythm. You know what I mean? He got the ball in good areas again and the old one turned sort of just clipping the edge of the footholes there. But I think, I mean, from an overall perspective to get him in the game and for him to bowl a long spell and sort of get into that rhythm, I think it'll do him a world of good. If there's been one blot, I suppose, on the landscape, it's been the catching a little bit in moments. Don Best talked about it yesterday and said the light was really poor and was troublesome.

there was another went down today is it also perhaps a difficult ground to see on or is it just one of those things that happened? I think it was difficult last thing because it was gloomy. When the geist came off it was like, wow, you know. So it wouldn't have been a good time to bat and equally to field bear as well.

I mean, it's not an excuse. I mean, nobody means to drop the catchers, but one thing I can say is the boys do work really hard on their fielding, but work really hard on my catching. You've probably seen us out there every morning. Every morning they do the sleep fielding. So it's not through lack of effort, really. all we've got to do is keep working hard and keep looking to improve.

A word on Jimmy Anderson as well, 599. He's tantalisingly close. We don't know what's going to pan out in this winter. We don't know what future short-term future of test cricket is. How important is it that you get back out there tomorrow, get into that milestone and plow on for the win? Well, I think it's, I mean, weather permitting we get out there and we continue as we have been, really. And I think Jimmy will get that 600 wicket.

And I think it a great occasion to find 600 test wickets. I mean, wow. I mean, I was thinking back earlier to when, obviously, Brody got his 500. You think just that is a lot of test wickets, but 600, I mean, yeah, wow. How much do you think the World Test Championship, the existence of that, makes it feel all the more important to get back out? You know, in other times you'd be 1-0 up in a three-match series, last day of a summer, stuck in a bubble.

Might not have been quite the same incentive to get back out, might not? No, I think we want to win. It's as simple as that. I mean, for our points up for grabs. and equally we want to finish as we've gone on I mean I'm very proud of how the guys have handled themselves being locked up for nearly 10 weeks now

and the way they've applied themselves in every game, a way they've worked hard but the way they've turned up every morning with a great attitude to go out there and play good cricket so it'd be nice to come out tomorrow and finish strongest as we've been going The TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live

well due to the heavy rain earlier we took the chance to discuss who's been England's player of the summer and joining me for the debate who are Michael Vaughan, Ebri Reinfraint and his Altsman and BBC sports, Stefan Schemelt. Where are we going to start with all of this?

Let's start with, because they've all got a bit of a backstory, haven't they, these players? All quite interesting about it. And I think the first one from the story point of view would be Stuart Broad, who the first match here, of course, was left out. This was England's best bowling attack,

and Stuart didn't think that it was, and he got very angry about it, and then showed very graphically, why of course he belongs very much in the England's best bowling attack group because his figures are frankly astonishing Andy you might as well go through them and just remind us of what sort of a summer Stuart Broad has had despite missing that first test match he's played well the five since then taking 28 wickets

at an average of 13.4 strike rate of a wicket every 31 ball had a 10 wicket match against West Indies in Manchester, took three wickets at least in each of the first seven innings that he bowled this summer and took two yesterday to break that sequence of consecutive three wicket innings. Only the seventh England bowler to have seven consecutive three wicket innings. If he'd taken one more yesterday, he'd have been the first with eight consecutive three wicket innings since Morris Tate in the 1920. So he's been incredibly consistent as well as penetrative. And in terms of best summers by England bowlers, his average of 13.4 is the second currently, we might go off a little bit tomorrow, but it's currently the second best average in a home summer by an England bowler who's taken at least 20 wickets in the last 50 years. And the Dominic Cork with 20 wickets at 12 in the year 2000 has a better average in that time.

Let's not forget his batting either because he's contributed pretty well there too, is he? In that Old Trafford test match against West Indies, for instance. Yes, a rapid 62s, 224 runs in the summer strike rate of 111. And we'd seen a long-term decline in his batting. He had a good knock in South Africa as well and maybe the time off caused by the virus and enabled him to work at his game. But it's the best he's batted for probably seven years. So, Ebony, let's start with you that.

It looks absurd now that decision, doesn't it? I know, the selectors are there to be shot at. And it's a difficult job. But it just seemed like a bad decision at the time, isn't it? Well, there was that, but I also, in some ways, it's a good decision. So I'm going back to Melbourne a few years back where he's under a little bit of pressure. The critics are up. And I think he's one of those players that sometimes responded.

I remember watching him during the ashes, and it was one of those tests where England needed to bounce back. And he came out with fire. I just wonder if it lit a fire in him. Not only is he sat there for the last few months around COVID and then got into this bubble or whatever, to be left out after that, I think, would have stung him. And, you know, in some ways, maybe that ignited it.

You know, he was so frustrated. He said what he had to say. It maybe refocused him in his mind about what he wanted to achieve. You know, I can understand the thinking of why he was left out. I can understand England looking forward with pace and those sort of questions. But what he's done is completely changed the narrative. And he's done it in a few ways.

I think he separated himself from Jimmy Anderson. Quite clearly, he wanted people to know. By the way, you know, there's an age gap and Jimmy has added extra so many wickets in this time. I think it was over 100 or not. So give him time and, you know, he could surpass him. I think that was a strong point. I think that, you know, the fact that he's talking about,

you know, I've changed my game. I'm adapting and I'm bowling fuller and straighter and taking the pads. You know, what he did is he kind of spoke into existence what he believes his next phase is and he's gone out and delivered. So you've got to give him so much credit. You know, we're on the verge of celebrating Jimmy Anderson,

but give Stuart Ball the time that we're seeing with Jimmy. You know, you never know. He's now showing that he's got that next phase of his game available. Markle, it makes you wonder, does it? Why they made the statement? except they obviously believed that was the case that was their best attack but do you think they actually needed to do that

because it's pretty personal and I mean and all the figures and the stats of the year leading up to it and what he's done since then it's obviously quite ridiculous I think we I think we're making too much at that first test

it was the batting that let England down yes they'd have won the test match I don't think we'd have been having this conversation if the batters had arrived and played well if Josh Butler had taken that catch down the leg side to Jermaine Blackwood that they won the game you know Broad has been outstanding since coming back into the team and he's always been that

character that if you prod him and you poke him he'll respond and that's a great trait to have as an international sports person that you know every now and again he is that kind of character that he does need a prod and he does need a poke and what does he do he comes and responds so you could argue that it was a masterstroke

by Ed Smith and the selectors that who's to say that if he'd have played in that first test and been selected that we might not have seen his performance had been such of a high standard over the course of the last five test matches and it's the five test matches

that we should be focusing on not talking about the game that he actually was dropped because what he's delivered has been pace skill great control a great mindset you know great mindset you can see him

in the headband he gets it on you can just see it at the end of his run up his legs are running in nicely he's got that bounce in his run up and he's got that energy you know there's been many times and understandably when you play

for such a long period of time as the same with Jimmy Anderson you see them so much that you can see traits and you look and go not quite right it's very obvious and over the course of these five games

it's been very obvious that Stuart Broad is exactly right as he was last summer as he was in the winter yes he's got every gripe and every ounce of kind of anger to go and give that interview like he gave in that first test match

and it worked brilliant for him he said he really thought about his future like giving up He was so upset about it. I think he took it very personal. Of course he did, but you know Stuart as well as I do. And, you know, he's going to be very good in the media because he's going to say things.

You know, he's got a column on a Sunday. Of course he needs to say something. You're not telling me that Stuart Board was considering retiring after that one test match with five test matches to go absolutely no chance. No chance whatsoever. He was just making a statement. He did it brilliantly. He's gone back into the side.

And, you know, he's been the pick of England's bowlers. And when you think he's up against Anderson, Wokes, Archer, you know, to come out on top inside that quartet is some doing. How long he's going to play for? Well, I hope we've seen for at least two or three more years. What he's doing now and what he did in the winter and what he did last year is certainly giving himself a great chance of playing next summer and obviously in the Ashes series

in a year and a half time. Andrew, you're gripping on microphone. His previous best average in an English summer was 22. He's been very consistent in the home test, but never had quite such a spectacular summer as this one. Going back to the start of the New Zealand series that followed the ashes in 2017-18, and he's taken 114 wickets at an average a shade under 22.

But it's worth of looking back. He didn't start the series against West Indies that well. It took him until his 20th over to take his first wicket. And it was a spell with the... Just before the new ball became available, Stokes and Broadbowled, a series of short balls. Shamar Brooks was batting very well for West Indies

and that I think Broad said afterwards it helped him find his rhythm a bit so yeah he had none for 59 before he took the new ball and then took three wickets in that spell that broke the game open for Ingham and West Indies were looking like they might bat themselves towards safety Stephanie got any thoughts on on Stuart Broad the interesting thing about that first test match of the summer was who the captain was and that it was Ben Stokes he knew he was doing it for one game and we know that it was Stokes who broke the news to Broad

that he had to have that difficult conversation with him and I just wonder if as a one-off you know as Ben Stokes knew as captain it was much easier to make that decision rather than when Joe Root comes back and he's thinking well actually I'm the long-term captain here I don't want to be losing test matches I don't want to be losing series it's much easier for the skipper who had the one opportunity to do it

to make that decision I didn't have a problem at the time with England only wanting to play one of Broad or Anderson, I just think they played the wrong one. And they went back to, we all know how good James Anderson is, and his record speaks for himself, and he's about to take his 600 test wicket. But in the previous year, it was Jimmy Anderson

who barely played because of injury, and it was Stuart Broad who had the second most test wickets behind only Pat Cummins. And then after that, after England had lost that test, and as Michael rightly says, it was actually due to their batting and their catching, not the bowling that they lost that match.

they've sort of gone back to what they know probably quite rightly because of the conditions but when you look at Broad it's a real story of the summer because of not just this it wasn't just a man getting left out and then coming back and doing well it was a man who got left out

who spoke his mind who put himself under pressure who then performed and now you're looking at the new Stuart Broad if you will the shorter run up the fuller length the high pace and you're thinking well next winter or rather an 18-month time, if you're arriving in Brisbane

and you want Archer and Wood firing, well, who's the other bowler? And you're thinking, well, actually, it probably is Stuart Broad, who with that fuller length, with that extra pace, they look more suited to Australian conditions than what Stuart Broad has maybe been in the past. Well, I think that's true. He hasn't bowled many flat spells, has he? I mean, sometimes in the past he could run in his,

and the knees weren't up, and he could look at military mediums, we can get harsh, but I mean, he just looked like he was, holding himself back a bit, but I don't think there's even a single spell like that this summer. No, he has charging. I also think, you know, especially for the basketball, is that this little bit of an extra break-off has maybe freshened up the body. So it's allowed them to charge in. Anderson's speeds have been up as well.

But you're right. Look, you've got to give him credit. He is charging every single phase. I think there is actually, and I think because of the conversation around having the two quicks and stuff like that, I think if you're Jimmy and Brandon Anderson, you want to make sure your pace stays up as well because I think you don't want to be on the side of low 80s and then it looks

like there's six or seven miles an hour between the two so I think it's the competition in it isn't it? England have got competition and they all know that if you have I have to look at Jo Farage we had an off first test match you got a few wickets but England they'll deny that this is the case but for me it's quite obvious

that they weren't quite happy with the way that he bowled in the first test and they said right you're not playing in the second test he's come back here he's bowled he hasn't got wickets but for me he's looked like the ball that england need in a four-man seam attack a bit quicker a bit different and i think that's kind of hanging over the heads

of all the players now that there are competition for places in all positions and if you have a couple of bad games a real couple of really bad games there's a chance that you might lose your place in the side so it just keeps you on your toes and if you are knocking on a bit and you do lose a bit your pace is low

then it's two and two equals four is oh it's old it's over the hill when you'll soon get written off. Yeah, once age it is against you, it's only a matter of time, isn't it? So, okay, well that deals with our thoughts about Stuart Broad being on this

list of six players who we've shortlisted to be England's test player of the summer. Where should we go next? How about Zach Crawley? Let's go Zach Crawley, shall we? So figures-wise then, and just

that with you. Four tests, 417 runs. See the vast majority of them in that majestic 27 in this game, which was a, I'm sure Michael will talk about the quality of that innings in terms of the match situation and the range of strokes and the different manner in which

he batted in various different phases. But he played a couple of other very good innings of fine innings of 76 in the first test of the summer on this ground against West Indies and England's second innings that got England into a position where they were getting on top and then he was out in the tail collapse and he ended up losing he made a good 53 and a game which didn't have any sort of pressure in the terms of the match situation but the

conditions were difficult on the final day of the the rain-affected game here against against Pakistan so he's had he's had three significantly good innings and one you know momentous achievement one of the second highest score by an England player under the age of 25 he's only 22 it was So he's, I would say, probably the biggest plus for England this summer in terms of learning new things about players. And that 53, I guess he wasn't a totally dead scenario, but it did him some good. He was said at the time, you know, someone's going to get something out of this. And he had a good look at Pakistan's bowlers.

He got himself moving so much better than just having a net session. And it's no coincidence. I think they came out and scored a big one later. Yeah, and also I reckon that the 53 was in more difficult circumstances with the ball. doing plenty. Some of those deliveries that a bass was bowling. And then when he came out a few days later and took guard and he got that half falling his leg stump,

put it away to the boundary. And then he hit another drive down the ground. He probably thought, wait a minute, I faced these bowlers just the other day and it was doing a lot more than it is today. And I heard him saying in his interview, when he got to 25, he knew. And you do know as a batsman,

you get the sense on certain days on certain pitches against certain attacks that it's your day. But you've got to capitalize and make sure that you don't make any mistakes. stay inside your bubble. And what's that Crowley has got, he's got a game that looks to me that's going to be very difficult to keep him quiet.

So when he gets into that kind of groove and that kind of form on a day that suits him, very, very difficult as a captain to keep him quiet because he's got the drive straight down the ground, so you have to cover that. He's got that punch off the back foot through the covers. You've got to cover that if you can. He plays the defensive strokes very late. He lets it run it off the face of the bat. So you have to cover the kind of cordon and third man.

So that's all the offside cover. he's got the balance to play on the on side he's got the pull shot if you drop slightly short and again spin is active he dances down he can go over the top he's got the reverse sweep the hard sweep the lap slog you know I agree with Andy

he is England's fine at the summer because for England to be very successful against the better teams they've got to get big runs you know not the 300s and the 250s that has been you know pretty much the DNA of the test match team for a while for England to be that team that they were back in 1011

from, you know, when Strauss, Cook, Trot, Bell, Peterson, Collingwood, Prior, they got big, big runs. And that's exactly what this test team are trying to get to, that position of in the first inning, if they're getting conditions that are suited to batting, have they got the mindset and the skill levels to get the big, big scores? And I think in Zach Crawler, we can see a player that should be able to transfer his game to Australia to India

because he plays spin so well. And obviously, in English conditions, he's already proved that if you can just stay in the here and now, he should be able to get a lot of test match runs here. Such a simple technique too, isn't he? I mean, we talk about trigger movements and all these things, but he really is almost stationary. He's got a little twitch,

but it looks like the sort of technique that shouldn't go wrong. Well, that's one of the things that stood out for me is, you know, we talk about someone like Rory Burns who's come out and he's scored runs and he's deserved his place, but early on we could see there might have been technical floors, and you see that front foot, and it's got him in a little bit of trouble this summer. Whereas Zach Cawley you look at and you think, well, that rounded game that Vaughley just talks about, you know, he's playing with freedom, but there's nothing that's really going to get in the way that he may have to correct.

He's 22, and he's got such a good foundation that there's not going to be a huge amount. All he will have to work on his game plan and mindset, fitness, those sort of things, but the technique is so rounded. The other thing I really like about him is he seems to have this free mind. There was one bit where Yasir Shah came around the wicket to him, and the first ball. was comfortable. I knew it right straight away, reverse sweep, a couple of balls later, reverse sweep. To me, that means he's thinking clearly about exactly what he wants to do at what stage of the game. Again, there was another phase where Yasir Shah came on and straight away, he ran down the wicket and hit him twice back over his head. And, you know, for a young

player to just go, right, bowler on, this is the game scenario, this is what I want to do, and execute it. You know, that's a real, real skill and it's also a free-thinking mind. He's maybe so young now that he, you know, he hasn't been plagued by all the thoughts that sometimes get in your mind and as a battle later on. And then the fact that he's now given himself the confidence, I think once you get that hundred or that big one, and then to go on that big, there'll be nothing in his mind now that says, I can't go on and dominate for another 10 years. He's also, he's got the game. I mean, you look at someone like Rory Burns, Dom Sibley, who, you know, different styles of players, but you always feel for them if they get low scores, getting to 20 is going to take a long

time because of the way that they play. Whereas for someone like Zach Cruller with the way that he plays, if he has a couple of low scores, I think he'll always get to 20 quite quickly. So he'll almost like put away those two low scores very quickly. His problem will be that he's got too many options.

He's pretty much got everything covered. And at this level, it's about can you bring out the right options for the given day against the given bowlers in the given conditions? And if he can work that out quickly with everything that he's got and not just think he can only play that way on every single time that he goes out

to play a test match innings, he should have a long and prosperous test match career. What I like as well is that there will be analysts and all the other test playing nations who will be, they've looked at that innings and they're reporting back to their team to say, right. So Zach Crawley's weaknesses, what are they? I don't think he's got any. You know, you can't see him being vulnerable

to the short ball, for instance. He plays it well. He either gets out the way or does, he can play a hook shot. Sort of the obvious areas that you can see people might exploit. there's something not obvious I guess the one there I mean this was a slow pitch and when you don't have a trigger movement

and you just press you know when you're facing scene ballers ball in 84 miles an hour on a slow wicket you generally get away with it I think if you're facing a Cummings and a Hazelwood

and a star kind of Brisbane pitch with a bit more bouncing zip you know I haven't seen many that have just stayed still but I think of someone like Matthew Hayden actually I know he's a left-hander raggots but Matthew Hayden has a very similar stance to Zach Crawley

the big tall chaps with wide base so they get their feet quite far apart they have the bat in between their legs very similar to Matthew Hayden and Hayden didn't trigger Hayden was kind of a brute and just stands there and goes come on what you got for me and I'm not saying Zach's the same kind of mentality

as Matthew Hayden but tall chaps like Zach Crawley Hayden can get away with not a huge amount of triggering but in Australia against the bouncing ball I haven't seen many have a huge amount of success as an opponent so I've seen Hayden you look at all the players that have had a lot of success in Australia generally they're bouncing around and have a bit of a trigger movement so it can work and obviously you can do things differently

but I will be interested to see how that lack of trigger goes against quicker bouncing balls in Australia before this test match you'd have almost had Crawley Sibley and Burns together as three players that had had decent summers and were ending in credit but we hadn't necessarily learned more about them than we knew at the start of the summer. After

this test match you would say that Zach Crawley is much closer to being a permanent piece of that puzzle in place than what he was before the start of this game. The interesting thing about him is he was a pick on potential really. He came into the England side over the winter with a

first class average of 30 but what they really liked about him was his work ethic and how quickly he learned. And what we also knew about him as a teenager, he'd taken himself off to to India to learn how to play spin. He'd had winters in Australia. I think he's had two winters playing club cricket in Australia. And they

are England's next to winter tours. They've got trips to the Soap continent and then the Ashes tour. One thing that we're already seeing, you know, various people on Twitter saying, you know, when Ben Stokes is coming back into the team, we've got to make space for him. So let's leave out an opener and push that Crawley up to open.

I would be against that straight. away. It seems to be a thing that we've developed in English cricket recently that as soon as someone does one job well, we want them to do a different job. He's got a better record in first class cricket. He prefers opening the batting in Zach Crawley. That's where you

ask that Crawley, where do you want to bat? He said, I want to go in first. So he prefers going in first. And I completely hear what you're saying, but it's not out of the realms this winter that Benfokes comes into the side to keep, stood up in subcontinent conditions. He's had that 100 in Sri Lanka, so he plays spin

nicely. I think one of the concerns of Ben folks from the England selectors' point of view is the way that he paces the bouncing ball, but he's very, very good against spin. Keaton Jennings is a player that they like against spin. Short leg, plays a spin nicely as well as a left-hander. Could you see this winter

a Keating Jennings at Crawley opening partnership with Joe Root at three, Ben Stokes at four, Olly Pope at five, Butler at six and folks at seven? Could you see that? Yes, he could see it. The winter's interesting there, isn't it? Because you look at the way that Burns and Sibley play, and you think there are problems for them in the subcontinent.

And the last time England were in this position, in this cycle, the year before an Ashes tour, they went to Bangladesh and they went to India and things got ripped apart very quickly. If you remember in that winter, they had Bend Duckett in the side, a seepamead in the side, Jennings, who made 100 on debut, not one of them made it to Brisbane. But my point, Steph, is that England this summer basically picked for the here and now. So they've picked their bowling attack for these conditions for the here and now,

and it's worked. They haven't had a great eye on the winter. Now, if you get to the winter, they're going to have the same kind of philosophy where we need to pick for the here and now. And if you're picking for the here and now in the winter in subcontinent conditions, you probably would say Keaton Jennings comes in.

You probably would move Zach Crawley up and you probably would bring Benfokes into the side. But as you say, that is ripping up the following winter, which is Australia where you probably want a Byrne-Sibbby kind of combination. England must learn from that lesson of last time, and okay, Alistair Cook obviously threw in the towel as well in that,

which kind of didn't help us oppose. But they mustn't be influenced, I don't think, negatively by what happens this winter. It's absolutely right, because if they think that Burns and Sibley are the men, that they can do the job for them, both at home next summer and in Australia the following winter, do not, if they have problems in the subcontinent, do not let that affect the decisions that they make further down the line. It's why watching this England team over the next 12 months is going to be absolutely fascinating. how about we go then to the third player on the list we'll go joss butler

so stats wise and i suspect your stats will probably include runs will they include because this is the important bit in a way will they include missed opportunities as well i can look that up for you there have certainly been several of those but he's been very very consistent with the bat even before the major inings he had in this game in total 416 runs a century and two other half-century scores.

He also had 35, 40 and 38. So he's been consistently productive. He had a duck when he was pushed up to open the inning. So that's dropped his average down a bit in a slightly misleading way. So he's had a very good summer with the bat. He had a very good summer two years ago when he was England's top run score in the 2018 summer in which he was recalled,

but had a poor summer last year in test cricket and a poor winter as well. so there's much needed runs for Butler and that partnership with Wokes and we'll talk about Wokes later in terms of the match situation and the way they turned gaming and were losing into one of England's

finest victories in recent years one of the greatest partnerships arguably in England's test history it seems unfair to have that Nort in there actually because he was sent out to go and slogos days a third ball Nort it does seem a bit harsh but anyway

because that only is half the stories and that people he missed opportunities and he missed quite a number and that again coupled with the background of the batting particularly although he has played very well as he was what people were talking a lot about and again in a way

it's rather like Stuart Broad situation where Josh Butler gave a very honest interview and he said this simply is not good enough I've got to do better than that or otherwise I'm not going to be giving wicket anymore he put himself out there as well which I thought was very honest of him and he's and he's responded

Okay, he's dropped another one today, I'm afraid, and I don't know how he did drop that one. That's a reminder to him, though, because yesterday he was great and everything from his concentration to his movement technically was fantastic yesterday, and today was just a little bit of a reminder. He has to be on it all the time.

He's not a natural Jack Russell-style keeper that can shut his eyes and the ball just kind of melts into his gloves. He has to concentrate, and it's going to be draining for him because it's so hard to do that ball after ball. But that was just a cricket has that kind of, it has that moment doesn't it

when you think you've got it and it just knocks you down a peg or two and yesterday we all thought he had it and then this morning it's just a reminder to him that he's not the kind of keeper that can just rock up and just kind of grab the ball at every opportunity has to focus and concentrate all the time

do we have to link him do the two have to be linked his working and his batting when we discuss his summer and his future and everything else in this is a way that we're doing here or can you can you separate it

Well, it looked yesterday that obviously he's 150, he'd helped his keeping, but I think he's done a lot of work with Bruce French just to iron out his foot movement and his technique slightly. But again today, it was just a very obvious thing for me to watch and see that he didn't even get a glove on it, and that's just concentration. And you analyse, because you have to on television, they analyse the wobble ball, but there's not one keeper in probably club cricket around the country that wouldn't expect to take that opportunity. That's just concentration. So there's one thing for him to work on.

Being a player that plays in all three formats, you know, test T20 and 50 over, it's hard. It is hard work to concentrate every single ball across three formats year after year and being involved in the IPL doing exactly the same. So he's got to work out a mechanism in his mind and his kind of mentality to make sure that he can just switch on for that ball at every opportunity.

Can you, Steph, see an England side without Joss Buckler in it? Not at the moment. I think if he was going to play as a batsman alone, then we need to see much more like the Joss Butler that we have seen in the past couple of test matches because I think, Andy, what is his career batting averages? I think it's in the low 30s,

which isn't enough to justify a place as a batsman alone. And so to me, if he's going to have that record as a batsman, then he has to be able to do two jobs, which means that the keeping mistakes have to be eradicated and at Old Trafford when he did miss Sean Massoud twice England got away with it

partly because of the innings that just put the play but they're not always going to be able to do that and when we've spoken about it a lot he won't get away with it when that is Virac Coley or Steve Smith I'll hear what Vaughan is saying about the plan for the winter when you could move that Crawley up

to open and Joss Butler could just play as a batsman because he has got a very good record in the subcontinent as a batsman and Ben folks could play when you've got to have someone standing up to the stumps all day but longer term is that an option I'm not sure because the other thing that we haven't discussed in all that is that would mean that Joe Root has got to bat at number three which we know he does not want to do so at the moment I like the formation of this England team even if at the moment it's not quite what they would like it to be because Ben Stokes isn't in the the side who does provide that extra bit of balance and then you know you lose a bowler and it does look slightly better i think as soon as you are playing butler as a batsman folks as a wicket keeper root at three then we're going back to two years ago when it didn't look quite balanced and we were playing england were playing lots of all rounders and people were picked to do a bit of this and a bit of that rather than the thing that they should be specialising yeah it's interesting A little theory, Ebony, do what you like with it. But I felt at Old Trafford at the start of that heroic innings that won the game.

I thought Pakistan were intimidated by Butler. I mean, immediately, when he walked out to bat, a couple of close fielders went back, and they were put out. And I just wonder if that is something that maybe subcontinental teams feel because they see so much of him playing in the IPL and smashing the ball all over the place, whether they are a little bit intimidated by him. Yeah, potentially. I think one thing that was quite clear about that innings is the clarity of thought for Butler. It came into his natural zone. You know, we talk about whether he's a natural keeper or whether he's a natural test player. I think that innings, so he walked straight out and straight away tried to dominate. He used, you know, reverse sweeps, used his feet, just threw it straight back to the Pakistan team. And then all of a sudden, they're scuffling to try and organise themselves and their game plans. And when he played in that format, I remember thinking, look, great innings. but does he have the adaptability?

And what was really interesting for me is how he came out and faced 300 balls for his 100 in this game. So that kind of just showed that he, you know, he's able to adapt and he's got that in it. It's just whether he can constantly back it up. But what he did show in that Old Trafford innings is just you give him something which fits his natural style, come out, dominate.

The other thing that we forget to talk about, does he have a long enough tail behind him? And I think that is actually, it helps. if he knows that he's got a proper batter at the other end, him and Zach Crawley in that innings, he can have a little bit more time at the crease. He can execute his plans, whereas sometimes we've

seen him in other innings where you realize he is scrabbing a little bit because he's got to deal with the tail. But for now, he's in your side. I think he's definitely in your side. The keeping is hit or miss, and I think someone like folks would be sat in that changing room right now thinking any danger, you know, some of those

old snaffle up. And then you see the Superman take he took yesterday So he's one of those players, and he's got a bit of everything. I think what I've got to understand with Josh Buller. I mean, I keep hearing, you know, Adam Gilchrist mentioned, you know,

he's that kind of player that can take the game away. He's not an Adam Gilchrist player in confidence. Josh Buller has a lot of self-doubt. You know, when you think about some of the innings that he's played, you wouldn't believe that, but he does. You know, he's just a human being that ultimately doesn't wake up every morning believing in himself all the time.

And that's natural. There's not everyone that's made like Adam Gilchrist, you know, can do wonderful things on every single given day. He is a sensitive soul, you know, that needs a little bit of loving. And I think the England management over the last few weeks in particular deserve a huge amount of credit because, you know, I know that a lot of the players have struggled, but particularly Josh, being away from his young daughter and his wife,

he struggled in this environment. So for the England management to get him playing with clarity with the bat in hand under a huge amount of pressure, I think those around, and I know the likes of Mark Saxe will be in the team are doing a wonderful job with many of the players but it's just a reminder that just because he can smack the ball pretty much wherever he wants,

360 degree, it doesn't mean that he is ultimately a really confident person. Yeah, it's got a good point. Can you become that Gilchred? Oh, is that just a natural thing? I don't think you can. Obviously you can get better. Yeah, obviously your game,

but I think mindset-wise, can you become that? Yeah, I think you can improve, but ultimately you generally always go back to your your default, you know, when you have a game or two that doesn't go, and you can't have a great game all the time, I do think you have this default position that your mind goes to when you're in difficult times. So I think he deserves a huge amount of credit for the way that he's coped

and also the management for the way that they've got in playing the way that they have this summer. Just on the point of Josh Butler and self-doubt, he admitted as much in his press conference a couple of nights ago and he was talking about how, I think even midway through the first test, he was worried about being dropped, and he had to really dig deep into his mental reserves to find the belief to keep going. And when he reached a century here a couple of days ago,

you could see how much it meant to the England balcony. There were all out there. There were such massive celebrations. But talking about that fear factor and the way that Pakistan retreated at Old Trafford, it's really interesting because we want Joss Butler, or we almost expect Joss Butler to be this player that we see in White Bull cricket,

who could either really hammer home England's advantage at number seven if they've batted well or could come in and counter-attack when they're under the kosh. But he's never really done that in test cricket. That is not the way he has played in test match cricket. And Pakistan at Old Trafford, they sat back despite not really having any evidence

that Joss Butler had ever taken, really taken an attack apart in test matches. And in his press conference, he got asked about, do you think you've benefited from this summer only having to concentrate on test matches? He's pulled in three different directions, IPL, no first class cricket straight into a test match. And he said, you know what, I don't think so.

I still think that test match cricket is the third, my third strength when compared to the others. And I'm still carrying some white balls around in my kit bag and I can't wait to hit them. Yeah, I think, you know, it's interesting in all this stuff about Josh Butler. And also it's very interesting in that he has been in dressing rooms where these opponents will know exactly what he's about. So they will know, you know, from the IPL, from the Pakistan Super League, from a little bit of a stint or two elsewhere, you know, they'll know these players that he is a bit vulnerable. So that's why you go back to Old Trafford,

and it's staggering in this era with so much information, not only on stats information, where the players score, but also on the mindset of the player, that those Pakistan players didn't realize that Jospelor, there is a vulnerable soul. They took the pressure off him, and why didn't they squeeze him a little bit tighter and say, go on, you've got to play the big shots. I think they're intimidated, but anyway.

Okay, well, we're halfway through our line-up here of England players of the summer. Where do we go next? How about Chris Wokes? Because he's had a terrific, so ironically, perhaps that's had the best game here. But he's just tad, I guess, the summer of his life, really, and isn't he? He's been very, very good. Well, he's been affected with the bat, particularly in that innings at Old Trafford in the first test. And stat from that game in fourth innings chases, his 84-not-out in Butler's 75 were the second and third highest scores by an England player at six or lower in a successful fourth-innings chase behind Gilbert Jessop's momentous 100 at the Oval in 1902.

With the ball, he's not been quite so effective in the last couple of games here, but overall 17 wickets at an average of fractionally over 20. he's had a very good summer all round. And he's just so admirable, isn't he? Mr. Nice guy. Do you think his status in the team, the way that he's used, has risen as a result of the summer or not? I mean, I'm still thinking of times where he might have taken a new ball, for instance. He'd bowled a couple of overs, but no, he's off,

because Chris doesn't take a new ball, so we'll give it back to whoever it might be. I just wonder if he is such a, I don't know, he's utilical, that's not right. I'm trying to think of the right word, but he's just, is there sort of a bit of a ceiling there as far as his position the team is concerned? Well, in English conditions, you could argue he should be the number one pick.

With his numbers of his career in test match cricket here with the bat and the ball with the Duke ball in English conditions, you could argue that it's Chris works and then who else. I guess there's always going to be behind Broaden Anderson, isn't it? Yeah, well there's going to come a stage where he's going to have to be that senior bowler

and I think it'll come quite soon. you know he's such a great guy I think he's probably the nicest English cricket at that we've seen for many many years how much does that personality come into selectioners what I mean by that is Stuart Broad would be in your ear right if you're not picked he's in your ear Chris Wokes

you know he continuously in home conditions delivers but I just can't imagine him being in the coach and the captain's ear mate I'm in next so therefore when you're thinking you're selecting is that that's maybe not aiding his game that's why you've got to be very good us selectors to understand people and the captain

and the coach I'm sure they understand all the personalities in the team and they know that Stuart Broad will speak out that's great I'd love that in a team but as a when you're selecting is there that added pressure of the players going to kick off everyone knows what you shouldn't think I know you're trying to say that he's easier to drop isn't it an easy

not as a ball and easy to be left out if you're weighing it up and you know and you know you've got one or two that will be in your ear everyone was panicking about who you're going to drop on the first game. It's like Sam Curran. Sam Curen has become

easy to drop. He played in the second test. He didn't do much wrong. He misses out in the third test. Get sent back to play for Surrey. I don't know. I hope not. I hope England now realise that in home conditions,

Chris Wokes is right up there with the best. Oversease is his issue. You know, he does have an issue overseas. He's having very little success with the Duke ball or the differing balls around the world that they use. Is that length? Is that the length of the balls, I think?

Maybe. Or the pace? Maybe. Maybe. Maybe I think it's a bit of everything. Maybe it's that he's not quite got the skills of a Jimmy Anderson yet. If I was whoopsian, I'm sure he is doing, you're trying to sit with Jimmy as much as you can

to try and get few of those skills so he can have more success overseas. His batting's been a different proposition away from home as well, which is surprising because, you know, I think, you know, particularly in Australia, they're just going to bounce him. You know, he won't be getting those glorious drives through the covers. He's going to get bombed like most players are in Australia. but in English conditions he's a gem because as a captain

you pretty much know what you're getting from him he just knows how to bowl with this Duke ball it's just can he get more skillful more consistent can he bowl a bit fuller get a yard or two of pace I'm not too sure if he can't at this stage of his career but you know if he can pick up

he's already added a yard to his pace somebody first arrived isn't he? Probably not so that's going to be his challenge overseas but in English conditions he's tremendous he's also very very highly regarded by his teammate. He's a very, very popular member of that dressing room and in another era when we didn't, when maybe there wouldn't have been James Anderson, Stuart Broad, Ben Stokes. Chris Wokes would be one of the absolute superstars of this England team. If you think about

all that he's achieved, World Cup winner, Century at Lords, he's got a ridiculous record with the ball at Lords, match winner at Altrafford a couple of weeks ago. When we talk about Wokes abroad, it was too small a sample size but we did just see in South Africa he was starting to have a little bit more success towards the end of that series and when we were talking about the first test match of this summer when Broad was left out

it wasn't just Broad, it was Wokes and Sam Curen and they both played all three of them had played in South Africa when England had won that series and we're right in saying it's easy to leave out Sam Curham because he's the young lad and Chris Wokes won't be coming on TV and firing into

the selectors for being left out because he's not that sort of character but we're going to talk about james anderson at some point as well and when michael's talking about you know are england going to go into a winter where they may have um horses for courses batting line up are they going to be strong enough at some point in the future that even if these guys have been producing the goods at home can they um the scene bowl as this is in particular can they then switch tack to make sure that they are particular choosing the right attack for whichever conditions they encounter away from home. So let's go to Ben Stokes.

I've just got one bit of information coming from Andy because Steph's right about Chris Wokes. He's kind of this cricket. There's got incredible kind of history of performance in English conditions. I've just asked Andy to look at Chris Wokes' figures here in the UK compared to someone like Andrew Flintsoff. It was a wonderful round of England and got attention all the way around the world

with his performances for a few years back in around 2003, four, five, six. Andy, what is the numbers? Well, Wokes at home averages 35 with the bat and 22 with the ball over his whole career, away 19 with the bat and 51 with the ball. So there's a huge difference. Looking at Andrew Flintov, at home average 35 with the bat, 36 with the ball, away 28 with the bat, 29 with the ball.

But Flintov had a prolonged start his career. He was almost learning to bowl in test cricket. It hadn't bowed very much in first class cricket. If you look at flint off from the 2002, 2003-4 winter for the rest of his career, average 41 at home with the bat, 28 with the ball. But average 28 with the ball overseas as well, and 30 with the bat. So he was supremely effective in all conditions during his peak years. Ben Stokes, of course, isn't here at the moment,

and we wish him and his family well. He's gone off to Christchurch to see his mum and dad, so I hope he was well with him. his summer though before he cut it short Andy he finding the stats here 372 runs at an average of 62 that big 176 against

West Indies also had 78 not out rapidly in the second in the game to set up a declaration a couple of 40s in the first test of the summer here both innings in which he was playing quite carefully and then got out when it looked like he was going to turn the game to England. But his bowling, six wickets in the opening test of the summer,

three in the second test at Old Trafft against West Indies, and a couple of key wickets late on in the day in the first test against Pakistan. So he's done with 11 wickets at an average of 14, only bowled 56 over, as England have had to try to manage his workload, which has been an increasing feature of the way they've used Stokes and the difficulty of stopping himself bowling himself. into the ground, as Flintov also did at times in his career.

So he's been phenomenal with the bat and effective in crucial stages with the ball. But he's not around. You see how much the team miss him. The team selection, isn't it? You know, you could see the nightmare they got. Well, first of all, one thing that I thought stood out was the game against Pakistan at Old Trafford where he was not meant to be bowling or he was carrying that injury. And there was still that moment England needed the breakthrough.

Everyone's trying. and in the end it was, look, come on, mate, please just dig whatever you can out. And he did, he came out and delivered, broke through with the ball. And, you know, to see these stats where not only are you averaging so low when you do take wickets, you know, 14, that when you got the bat in hand, you can have the impact of an average over 62. And, you know, I think well done to Zach Crawley, because if with all these sort of maneuverings of do we go with one less batter and then Zach didn't come in and contribute and, you know, there's been all that sort of question. I think, you know, it could have looked more exposing.

The good thing I would say now is England, if they deliver with the bat, you can just about miss Stokes, but he's so hard to replace. You know, selecting a team without him and balancing that is quite a hard job. There was a time, I think, after the second test against the West Indies, when we thought this was going to be another summer of Ben Stokes. Not only did he make that huge hundred, he was running in, round the wicket, pounding the ball in. Can you remember that moment when there was no mid-off field

and he chased the ball all the way to the boundary? himself. It felt like it was Ben Stokes versus the West Indies. And yesterday, when it all went a bit flat, the ball was soft. Azar Ali and Mohammed Rizwan were comfortable. It felt like a time when you wanted Ben Stokes doing the same again,

round the wicket, banging it in another 11 over spell to make something happen. And he's also England's best batsman at the moment, isn't he? He's gone past Joe Root at the moment as the most consistent. Yeah, it's such a shame that he's missed these last two test matches and, you know, We really are thought to go to him and his family.

I reckon, actually, the most promising sign for the test team is the fact that they've played well without anything from Ben Stokes. I think Steph's absolutely right. In those first two test matches against the West Indies, it was exactly a bit of deja vu from last summer that England can only win if Ben Stokes produces magic. Now, in the last three test matches, he hasn't produced magic, apart from that one spell in the first test when he got a couple of wickets,

he said, give me the ball, I'll make something happen. but he wasn't contributing with the bat and obviously he wasn't bowling because of his injury yet England had found a way to win without those contributions and we've had a Chris Wokes performance at Old Trafford. We've had Crawley here, we've had Joss Butler and, you know, Broden Anderson always going to be a strong combination and I think that's very important for the take.

Once you become reliant on one player for so much that one player can't keep going into his well for another wonderful performance so I think it's so important that England learn how to win with a week where Ben doesn't produce the magic and over the last three test matches I think that for me has been one of the most promising signs for the test team that they've played really well

particularly here this week apart from the catching I think it's been a flawless test match performance catching is obviously very important and that's a big kind of push onto the naughty step for the players but this week I think they've looked like a high class test match team

Andy a quick well it's more on Stokes similar to Flintoff had a quite difficult start to test. After 20 tests, he averaged 27 with the bat and 40 with the ball. In the 47 tests he's played since then, he's averaged 42 with the bat and 27 with the

ball and in his last 16 tests his batting averages 56 with 4th century, so he has become a titan in this side. That's a deal with Jimmy Anderson. The last one quite swiftly because I think we've got to lose two of you in a minute. We've got other appointments whatever that might be. So Jimmy

Anderson, wickets at 14 14 at an average of 26.5. So he said, well, until this game, it's a moderate summer by his standards. We obviously missed basically all of last summer's test cricket through injury. His home record over the previous three or four summers had basically been pretty much as good as anyone had ever been at home over a prolonged period of time,

apart from Imran Khan for Pakistan in the early 1980s. But three for 60 in the test, the rain effect. the test last week and then five fair yesterday so he's picked up as the summer's gone on I think one of the main things about Jimmy Anderson is he's played five tests I mean that's real worries about his fitness

and whether or not one injury might finish him he's played five tests and good pace I would say it definitely looks like he's been a mile or so up as well yeah I'll be really honest about this Jimmy Anderson maybe coming to work with us in the T20s and the 50 over games

against Australia I don't have him as being a player with the summer. I think we're trying to be nice. A romantic selection. It was only a couple of games ago. We're saying that, you know, he had such a bad game. He hasn't had a great summer in terms of what Jimmy Anderson produces. He's been terrific here.

But I think we might be looking after a colleague. He has got through it, though. Yeah, great. Great. But, you know, he's certainly not been the story of the summer. He's been the story of this week. But he'll be the first to admit that he's not quite been on his game. I thought his interview was the funny, you know, the one where,

he felt he had a bad game and then to see him sort of call the press conference you know that well that was an interesting maneuver I liked it did you well I liked it but no one was saying anything I don't think I heard any whisper no one was saying he's out he's but he he was like right everyone

I think he said it straight away clever because I think he had a sniff that he may have not played in the second test now if Jimmy Anson if he gives an interview on the Monday before the Thursday said I'm fine I'm putting to bed these retirement room They've got to play him.

But this is my point to you. But this is my point to you about making sure you get in the team. Him and Broad. They have both then, if that's the case, play media blinders. Great. So put the pressure on to get them back in. Absolutely. I thought they're very, very clever of Jimmy Amos.

It's where England have got to be strong in the future, isn't it, when they make sure that they pick the right side for the right conditions. But sort of looking at that list of six players and Vorney quite rightly saying that Anderson hasn't had the summer that we know he's capable of, you look at those six players and there's one name to me that's sort of notable by his absence and I think one player that England would have wanted to be in that six at the start of the summer and it's Joffra Archer.

I think that when you're thinking about the future of this team, the evolution of it, England really probably wanted Joffa to step up and become the leader of the attack this summer and it just hasn't happened. I'd have pushed Dom Sibley into that list ahead of Jimmy Anderson. I think

Dom Sibley's proving to us that I put it in an article last week. I wouldn't be rushing to get there for 11 o'clock to watch Don But I'd pay to watch him back because I like to see players play test match cricket differently and he's the kind of player that knows his game. He's a bit different. You know, he plays for his off-stump.

He leaves and he waits for that straight one. But it looks to me like he wants to bat for a long period of time and that's exactly what you want from your opening batsman. You're listening to the TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live. Well, you can vote for your England player of the test summer on the BBC Sport website and app. The vote will be available until 2pm on Tuesday. with the result revealed on today at the test and on the website. You can catch up with the highlights of what play we've had on the BBC iPlayer

and look out for the Tuffers and Vaughn podcast also on BBC Sounds. We're back on air at 1015 on 5 Live Sports Extra with Radio 4 Longwave joining us at 1045. BBC Sounds, music, radio podcasts.