Test Match Special - Day 4: No play but there is Ask Carlos

Episode Date: July 27, 2020

Daniel Norcross presents from a wet Old Trafford on day four of the 3rd Test between England and West Indies. Play was abandoned due to the weather and will resume on the final day with the tourists on 10-2, chasing an unlikely 399 to win. Joe Root's side will need to take eight wickets to win the Test and series. Due to the washout Simon Mann took the opportunity to chat with summariser Carlos Brathwaite and asked him to answer some of our listeners' questions. Inevitably much of the discussion surrounded the World T20 Final in 2016 when he hit four successive sixes in the final over to lead West Indies to victory against England. He reveals what was going through his mind as Ben Stokes bowled at him in that finale and what was said between the pair afterwards. Amidst all the cricket talk, we also let Carlos have a go at doing the Shipping Forecast!

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. Bring more gear, carry more passengers, face greater challenges. Welcome to the world of Defender, with seating up to eight, ample cargo space and legendary off-road capability. It's built to make the most of every adventure. Learn more at landrover.ca. BBC Sounds, music, radio, podcasts. This is the TMS podcast. from BBC Radio 5 Live. I'm Daniel Norcross and welcome to the TestMat Special podcast.

We've had no play on the scheduled fourth day of the deciding test between England and the West Indies because of rain, so West Indies will resume on 10 for 2, chasing a very unlikely 399 to win. But the bad weather did give us a chance to have an extended chat with Carlos Brathwaite who has been a pleasure to welcome to the TMS box this series. We talked about the World T20 Final, of course,

he took your questions and, as promised, he had a bash at reading at the shipping forecast. Simon Mann was the host for Ask Carlos. You're listening to the TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live. Let's go back to 2016, March 2016. Actually, Matt emails us, he gets us underway with it really. He says, hi, Carlos. Do you feel that your T20 World Cup heroics has led you to be unfairly pigeonholed as a white ball specialist and denied

further test chances. Carlos has played three test matches. He's actually made half centuries in all three of those matches. Yeah, I would say yes. I would have played two test matches before the World Cup final happened and then one

after. And with all due respect in my short test career, it was two tests half centuries in Australia against Australia, one in the West Indies against India. So hardly two poor teams but I just felt as though

after the World Cup the expectation was plenty sixes not even runs it was sixes and I personally have always said they love test cricket

and I just love the fact that when I'm batting you can have four or five men behind the stump one man at a short leg so there's six footers out of your line of sight and you play in good cricket

shots you get full value for your money and during in the buildup to the 26 16 Royal Cut, I was playing first class cricket for Barbados, so I was on a few test stores. And I just felt as though for me personally, when I was playing the longer form, I was forced to get into better positions for a longer period of time. You did the right things in inverted commas, not that you don't do the right things when you're playing white ball,

but you're forced to make those good decisions a lot longer in red ball cricket. And I think that was a good platform and a good foundation for me to then go out and be expressive in the shorter form and hit the sixes with the power that I have. and then selectors, I guess, thought, well, we'll go a different way in test cricket and we'll pigeonhole him as is commonly referred to full white ball stuff. And it's something that I really didn't come to grips with for the simple fact that in whiteball cricket, I was doing a bit of a job of a bit of both type of thing.

I'd be fourth seamer batting at eight. So then it was like, you're not really being. picked for bowling, you're not really being picked for batting, you can't really express yourself much with the bat, and you're just being called to do a job with the ball, and it was tidy enough with the ball, but he felt they had a lot more to offer with the bat. Not many people would know by starting my career as an opening batsman and a top order batsman, and then fast bowling or medium-paced bowling took over because how consistent my lines and lengths were, and that kind of got me into the team. So I guess, on one hand, you live by the sort of day.

but he sort of got you into the team, it was your downfall as well. But I felt they had a lot more to off, and there's a conversation that I had with the chairman of selectors at the time. And I was saying, I didn't bore well in test cricket, I can be honest. I think I average 230. I prefer that with the bat. And they only got one wicket, but I was batting well.

And I was batting in a way that teams have realized now that you need your number six, seven, and eight to be able to bat. Be able, not compare myself to Stokes one or Yota, but the way he's able to defend or block out of situation and then switch gears. I think I had that ability and I proved it and I wanted them to show me some faith and instead of dropping me entirely out of the team

because of my poor bowling stats up to then promote me in the batting order, bat me at six, we weren't batting well at that time either so if I had a chance to bat at five or six then and didn't score runs and continue to fail with the ball then, I mean, I try to be fair, and I would say they wouldn't deserve to play. But you dropped me being in good form of the bat to pick a bowler and keep playing batsmen who were in bad form of the bat as well.

And that took me a good year, year and a half to make peace where they always had that lingering feeling that I'd get my place back. I turned down a CPL contract for the same 2017 tour of England. I couldn't see why it wouldn't be a part of the test squad. turned down the CPL contract preparing for test cricket never got a call and I heard some guys telling me oh yeah they got their call

and they're going to England this date and that date and this is the plan I was like huh so I actually called the chairman of selectors then to be told oh you're not a part of the squad and it was infuriating and as I say it took a long time to make peace with it but if you go back to the question itself

I would much prefer at that point in time for them to say look Charis you've been crap for the ball we can't rely on you with the ball in hand however you've added something to the batting line of which we think we need we can promote you to six and basically you're now a batting all around there if you do score runs you'll be kept in the team

and it allows your bowling to then catch up with your batting if you don't score runs and you're bowling don't improve you get dropped I'd be fine with that when you played in that I mean you played on boxing day MCG boxing day your debut test match

incredible occasion did you see yourself when he went into that match as a bowling all-rounder, a genuine all-rounder, or a batting all-rounder. How did you see yourself then? Well, I wanted to be a genuine all-rounder. I wanted to be able to make the team without a bat or a ball.

But if I'd be honest, with the ball, I was a lot less penetrative than I would like to be. And over the years, like my consistency I'm happy with, but there were a few things that I tried to change and it would have affected certain other things. So I always had this thing for trying to get a bit quicker, quicker trying to get a bit quicker as a result it would have lost some skill

then they're trying to find back your skill you get it back your pace drop what did you bowl that um same thing 81 81 I love to bowl long spells so I'm happy to bowl at 77 77 to 8 if it means I get in 8 well 9 10 overs as opposed to bowling 85 and bowling 5 or 6

so there were things that I felt as though if I had a longer run at test cricket that it would have helped my short-format game. But I wanted to be considered a genuine around. Be able to make the team to battle either six or seven and to be able to

be for a strange fastball if required. You went into the world T20 in 2016. I looked at this. You played those two test matches. You played seven one-day internationals and you'd play two T-20s. Actually debut was quite a long way before. It's back in

2011 in Bangladesh and you had a big break, played one more in Durban. And then into the tournament. So you'd only play two T-20s before that tournament in India. What was your role in that tournament? You know, when you played all the matches, you came into the tournament. What do they say

was your role in that tournament? Well, at that point in time, and at that in 2011, I really know my role, I'd be honest. I was just happy to be there, happy to be a party squad, happy to be recognised for the season I had before that. But I think going into the World Cup, I was a little more mature, I'd understood myself

a bit better. And then looking around the team, it was a team full of all-unders, really, and you had men that were flexible. So for me, I knew it just had to be the best me that I could be and be as flexible as possible. So you had Bravo that could potentially open the bowling and bowler one over. We had badgerie that we know with bowl three of the first six from one end. You had a wrestle bowling at 90 miles an hour. So we knew Jerome Taylor was on that tour as well, bowling rockets. So I knew there might be a possibility of ball one.

in the middle. Did you definitely know you were going to play? No, I didn't. I wasn't even in the first squad. I came in as a reserve for Pollard. But when we went to Dubai, we had some practice games and I was, I'd top of my picking my powers, as you will call it, bowling wise, it's bowling 84, 85

and hitting the deck hard. And I just felt as though my strength at that point in time was bowling that fifth or six over in the power play, bowling two in the middle and hitting the deck hard, mid-off, forcing guys to either try to run down at me and hit me over mid-off or pull into the leg side for ones and kind of halt the

scoring and the momentum and then maybe one at the death. So I had a better idea of what I think I was good at and I tried to perfect that throughout the preparatory camp in Dubai. We had some practice games and it blew very, very well. It was against Zimbabwe and there was two intra-squad games. I remember breaking the window in one of the games. Me and Ashton nurse brought home. a CHF5 over chase and they brought one the windows in Dubai center but bowling wise I knew what you had to do

running a bowl fast or as fast as possible hit the deck hard for that fifth or six over in the power play the two in the middle and then if I come in at the death back my slow balls my yorkers or the length ball so I think it was better equipped

then in the lead up to the World Cup more confident in what I know I could do best to then go out there and execute it. As a team going into that tournament, did you think you had a decent chance of winning it? Yeah. So in the lead at the Royal Cup again, there was talk about, I think the board had changed the policy of how the players would be paid for ICC tournament. So in the past, you could have made six figures quite easily. All of a sudden then, you're now being talked about being paid a thousand US per T20 and all the senior players are a little bit 2007 World Cup, 2011, etc., etc.

your paid X amount. Why all of a sudden with more money being pumped into the cricket, into the board, there is less money coming to the players. So there was a conversation and I heard the murmurs and I messaged bravone. I was just like, well, I'm a reserve. At this time it was still a reserve. And I just want to know what the situation is. Why are the murmurs the murmurs? What is the topic of discussion? So I can evaluate it for myself. Because just because you guys say you can do or not do something don't mean I will agree with it or I will go along with it but I want to be educated enough to know what's happening so he told me xyz this is the reason um I said cool I appreciate that and I actually believed them I understood

where they were coming from um and then a week later so I got the actual call to say well pollard will miss out um you'll come in I think Sunona rome missed it as well asher in there so we were playing for Barbados together and we got the calls basically joint um So then I message him again and say, look, I'm actually in the team now. I just want to know where you all stand. There was no official word of either not going or going, but I just wanted to know. He said, in his Trinidad Twine, Carlos, we go into the World Cup and we're going to win the World Cup. And I said, good.

That's all I needed to know. Not only that they're in it, but they're not in it for the money, they're in it to win. So that gave me some confidence. and then just before the World Cup all these things, you know, pre-tournament, how do you rate this team or their chances? And no one gave us a chance to even leave the group. So it was just there sitting confident

knowing these guys that have played IPL for how many years know they're going to win, and you all can't even see the experience that we have. So we did go into the World Cup, believing that we could win. Yeah. I mean, of course, India were playing at home and they're very good T20 side as well.

They've got a lot of very good T20 players, experienced T20 players. I think a lot of people assumed that they were going to be the team to beat in that tournament. Yeah, I think if you ask the majority of people, at that point in time, they would have probably said that India, South Africa or India, Australia final. No one had New Zealand to do as well as they did. No one had England to do as well as they did. No arrest in these.

And they were 3.84 semi-finalists. Right. Your group was England, Sri Lanka, South Africa, Afghanistan. And one of the notable things about it is, You chased in all four of those matches. In fact, you chased in all six games. Every single game. Yeah, of the World T20. You beat England in the first game by six wickets.

You didn't bat. You weren't needed. And the other thing I noticed is, well, you tend to just bowl a couple of overs. You didn't bowl, sometimes you bowl four, but often you just bowed two. Yeah, and I think it would be one in the middle or two in the middle,

and then Bravo would wrap it up in the back end. Badger would have probably broken the back of the top order. And Russell and Bravo would have finished. and myself and Ben would have bowled in the middle and early in the tournament we'd played the extra bowler so Jerome Taylor would have played as well whereas coming on to the back end of the tournament he was dropped and I think we brought in an extra batsman

so then they had to share more of the load and Sammy hardly bowled at all so I think when they realized Sammy wasn't bowling and they had to drop Jerome Taylor then with Jerome Taylor in team it was a case where he was bowling two he was bowling two you could probably pay extra batsman and Carlos

bowl four or Sammy Bowles won. So I think it was more a case of having too many options in the beginning of tournament and then just sacrificing one and giving me more responsibility. So you beat England in the opening game and Sri Lanka. I mean, you've actually beaten quite comfortably England and Sri Lanka.

South Africa game was a bit tighter, three-wicked win. You were there at the end? Yeah, I actually, I don't want to say I enjoy it yet. Let me say I enjoy that one a lot more and I did the finals. at least directly after finals. Just because I came into bat, we were struggling a bit,

Marlon knocking it to all parts. Again, I think he got 40 something. But then when I came in, I just swung and miss every single thing. I really put him under some pressure. And that was actually when I switched bats. So we were playing in Nagpur. Wicket was a lot slower.

And David Wiese was bowling. And he kept bowling these cutters into the wicket. And I was using a lighter bat then. And I just kept swinging and missing. swinging and missing, and I was just like, no, no, no, again, through the ball too quickly. So he called Ash later, Ash, to bring my other bat. This is the back that eventually continued to use up until the final. And yeah, and then he finished his spell, Marlon got out, and I was like, crap.

It's because of me. He lost all his momentum. I wasn't rotating strike, not getting the ball away. Then it was May and Ramden, last recognized pair. And we just had to do it. Sammy had come and gone and got one ball, Russell, come. and gone and just like cool no is the time rabada obviously had a big reputation still has and we needed nine off or ten off he last couple over something like that or eight balls

something at that and they hit him for six and then got a single we need eight get him for six and then got a single seven and I just like good no around then now only needs to get a single away and the game is won so the journey in that innings like probably 10 balls, but the journeyed that innings from how bad it was to eventually getting our six of here to help us to get close to victory was real sweet, really enjoyable.

Yeah, amazing, isn't it? How much pleasure you can take from a 10 knot out? I tell you, it'll run you through every single ball in 10. You can still see it, can you? You can still see it all. Okay, so you beat England, you beat Sri Lanka, you beat South Africa, you were through to the semi-finals. You lost to Afghanistan.

And, you know, we had a chat. I said the Sri Lanka game. Afghanistan had played someone, and they come close. And we were just like, you know, Afghanistan will beat someone. They're playing such good cricket. They will not leave this tournament without a win. And then we started to look at your picture. We are last.

We can't let him leave with a win. But Chris sat out gave Evan Lewis his debut. And we just let, you know, we don't want to make too many changes and break the rhythm. But obviously, this young man on the bench hasn't played a game, so much potential, Chris sat out and we lost. Chris let us have it at the end of the game. That's why we rate Phil Simmons

as a man manager. He didn't come in and berate us. I don't know if he and Chris had a conversation but when we came in, we sat down there were a few words you can't utter over here and then Chris just stand up and say, look, you know what? And for the next 10 minutes it was just all these faces, all these ears and Chris was the only person talking

and I think for me that showed so much of the passion that he had. It was so easy to say, oh yeah, we threw already, forget it we just lost Afghanistan and what was even more beautiful is that he and Mahamish Shahzad shared a nice little bromance and he told him if you beat us guys

I'll do the champion with you and he was down doing the champion with Mohammed Shazad and it was all jovial little did anyone know watching that video. When we got back to the dressing room It was the other side of Chris Gave, and he let us have it. Just explain the champion?

I don't know where Bravo got his song from, but I guess the calling champion DJ Bravo is not the most lyrically inclined song. But for some reason, when it came out, it was synonymous with our journey. We obviously wanted to be champions. We were champions in 2012, and albeit me not being a part of it,

I remember following it closely and wishing you guys well. for us to not even be considered and persons to write us off completely it was just something good to look forward to. Every time we win a game, we sing this song. We win a game, we sing this song like, cool, let's win more games and sing this song. And that became synonymous with our journey.

And it's just good to have like a little motto or a little anthem of sorts. And I guess as much as that song helped us, we and our journey helped that song as well because it went on to get how much have a millions of views on YouTube and whatnot. So he lost by six runs to Afghanistan. So that was the sort of kick you needed really, was it?

I was there at the end too. Yeah, you were. You hit a couple of sixes. You made 13, two sixes in that 13. And then got out in the last over with like three balls to go, four balls to go, something like that. And I remember he hit a six and the second, the last ball of the second to last over, I pushed a full toss into the leg side and ran a single because the batting would barge rating at that time. and this is actually part of the reason

why New Zealand happened the way it happened here last year and I remember pushing that button and I thought to myself at that time that could have gone for six but in my attempt to be there at the end back the last over I said, you know, well let me get on strike

and let me be in control of the situation let me bring it home and yeah, it didn't get any away after that and then just having a reflection with the guys, you know, they were saying that when you get to that situation you sometimes have to trust your partner if you get a ball like that and you can hit it for six

hit it for six could then even need one run or two run something like that and you back your partner to get one and get you back on strike or you run a risky single or something and so yeah so then New Zealand happened last year and it was like... On this grind. Correct. I'm not trying to get a single

if I can hit it for six and Trent Bolt was... Yeah. Well it would have gone for six if he hadn't been there. Yeah, naughty boy. was a absolutely dramatic I mean pulsating game that 100

against New Zealand the World Cup last year and you just missed out despite scoring a hundred Philip Taylor says I was at Old Trafford last year for the World Cup match against New Zealand

where you hit a brilliant 100, almost won the game I came into that match as a neutral by the end I was willing that final shot of yours to clear the boundary it was gutted when it was caught just wanted to say

how much of a privilege it was for me to be there and see your innings firsthand and what an amazing game it was. I appreciate it, Philip. Yeah, it was blowing. Trying to blow it over. It was down here.

Was that way to our right-hand side? He took the catch, or was it by the point? I was watching on television. I think it was at the point, was it? Yeah, because the temporary stand was, yeah, the temporary stand was there. And that side is actually a bit longer than this side. So the over before it hit Matt Henry,

probably same distance, but he went for six to this side. But that side, probably two meters longer. and he did not step back on the boundary to see him where he did in the World Cup final. Well, there were some very good games in that World Cup, of course, and that was one of the thrilling matches. And, of course, you had a huge bearing on how the tournament worked out.

But just back to 2016, so you came through the group, and then, of course, you play India in the semi-final, and I presume you were written off. Yeah, so my wife was there, and she was saying it was her. Clavelois was chairman of selectors then. it was her, his son Phil Simmons's wife

I think Clive was there as well it was about six of them in the box and they were the only people in the stadium other than us probably cheering for by Cindy's and that was just a that was a game filled with drama I remember bowling

I can remember my figure it probably bow four over for 38 and they went into the last over like something like three for 20s I was just thinking it's not bad at all you're almost going for 10 over but actually when they look at it

did a damn good job um and the drama was a high scoring game wasn't it yeah they think they got 190 190 odd yeah the drama started with bravo to coley um coley played a miss at a slow ball ball going through bat and pad

Coley doesn't know where the ball is going and taking too much steps down ramding collects it underarms it at the stump misses by it goes to bravo Coley so far, I don't know that Bravo has the ball, Coley's miles out of his

Grung still trying to get back and Bravo underarms it from me to you, Simon, and misses the stuff. Which is about two metres. I misses the stump on the other side of the stump. I mean just like, oh my gosh, this is the World Cup.

Coley went on to score, I think, 80 or 90 not out. And in small victories in Baham, remember bowling at Donny? And bowling why the yorkers to him and he was literally the first time I've ever seen Donie walk across

and play a nice little pick-up, Dill Scope or whatever I was thinking, damn, Carolus, you forced Donie to do that. So for me, all them little things I appreciate and I cherish in the heated battle.

And yeah, I mean, it then was Phil Simmons, Lendo Simmons, straight off the airplane into Bat Hat, I think three or four. him and marlin

behind it three and four I think he by that three and marlin and he got three or four chances got 80 odd not out and brought the game home every time you thought he was out stepped on the boundary

no ball boomer dived and caught him like oh my gosh boomer and then he was walking off hold up no ball he was like I looked at Ashen Harris he looked at maybe thinking

the same thing tonight is our night and yeah after I think Coley Bowl the last over and Russell hit him from Mumbai to Kolkata and the stadium was quiet silence

absolutely it was so silent that you could hear my wife in the background screaming in one of the videos as the ball was going for six but then she said like people were so happy obviously they didn't want you to lose but the conversations on her way out of the ground was if India had to lose we would want it to be to the rest in these

and we wish you all guys well in the final and all that. So you can't say you get a lot of love from the Indian fans of the West India. It is remarkable actually how quiet those grounds can go if India are not doing well or if India being beaten in a vital match. It would be nice to hear a 30 second clip

of the crowd when Coley was batting versus a 30 second clip when the ball was travelling for six. Yeah, it goes from massive noise and you can't hear yourself think till you could hear a pin drop. Yeah. I remember actually being the 96th World Cup

I've mentioned this before occasionally but you probably never heard it I remember Aradavinda de Silva 96 World Cup semi-final Sri Lanka India Aradavinda Silver driving the ball down the ground to reach his 50 and I called his 50 and normally you expect some applause and there was absolute size of I thought I got it wrong

because there was no reaction to his 50 whatsoever from whatever it was 80,000 people at Eden Gardens contrast that with the two players being caught at third man in the first over the noise for two Sri Lankan Open

was called a third man in the first over of World Cup semifinal and it was so noisy again that that contrast that you were

talking about so India dispatched in the semi-finals well if you beat India at home in the semi-finals you expect to

win the final don't you we do but even then people were talking about Owen Morgan and his team

how well he's led his troops so there was hardly any coverage of what the Western you said just done from my memory probably we weren't

looking the right places if I'm wrong um but yeah it just felt as though we would never win you come into group stage you weren't supposed to get out of it you did get out of it you played india um you obviously weren't supposed to win that game but you did and then you're facing england who just beat new zealand think new zealand went on beating in the group stage up until the semi-final of the last england and then was like oh england is rejuvenated it's not the same team that wrestling is played in the first game so again we still weren't supposed to win that game and yeah, more of the talk was about England batting

and Owen Morgan's captaincy, Stokes and Jordan at the death rather than the power that we have shown throughout the tournament. How did you prepare for that final? Well, actually, what we'll do, we'll do the shipping forecast in a bit and then we'll have a look at that last over after that. But we'll just talk about the build-up to the game and some of the game itself before 12 o'clock. So how do you prepare for a World Cup final?

try to keep it as close to a normal game. It's kind of cliche, oh, it's just another game. But I think sometimes if we put too much pressure on the occasion, you can be overawed by the occasion and not play the games. And for me, personally, they find their time to perform better in bigger games because they actually try to oversimplify the game. So Karas is just another game of bat and ball. It's a must-win game.

It's just another game of bat and ball. Every time that thought comes into your mind that you're overcom, You try to oversimplify it. And yeah, I remember time my wife? I was just like, I just wondered if I can play because I hadn't said the world like with the ball. I was doing a good job for the team with the ball. But if you look at stats, you wouldn't pick me off stats.

I just wonder, I probably had two wickets or one wicket in the whole tournament. Yeah, I'm just looking at it. I think you had one in the game against Sri Lanka. Yeah, Dilshan, LB, W. There's some tidy spot. I mean, two overs for 16 against England. England, two overs for 11 against South Africa,

two overs to 21 against Afghanistan, and four overs for 38 in a very high scoring game against India. Yeah, so if you, on the face of it, when you look at the stats, I think, what was he doing playing? He has one wicket. But then listening to you guys after, you always should ask senior players, like, well, you think about my spell record,

have it gone different, blah, blah. All that knockouts, you were amazing, bam-um-bum. I think the odd four ball would spoil the figures, but when you look at the spells, I would have bowed. It would have been very important and at important times. So on one hand, he was thinking, you're going into the World Cup, final one wicket, really you play? But then you tell yourself, now you've been bowling well. The stats probably don't show,

but you have been doing a good job for your team. And obviously, with the back, they hadn't had much chance. It's just been South Africa. You win that game. Afghanistan. They managed to get over the line. So I absolutely, I wasn't 100% sure that I would play, probably 90. So then it was just, all right, plan as if you are going to play. it's just a normal game and then they got the team news I was in how far before the start of a game like that do you get the team news back then it was I think we had a meeting because the games were night so you'd have a meeting you'd have a bowler's meeting and a team

meeting and you get the news at the team meeting so they've had time and it'll probably 11 12 o'clock and then you'll probably leave the hotel like 4ish if I'm not mistaken 4 or 5 drive like an hour And then you practice and you warm up, sorry, now you start the game. So I had a few hours knowing that I was in the team. So only on the day of the game, would you know you were playing? Yeah, and back then I used to lay in bed all day before the game. We get something to eat. The curtains will be pulled in total darkness.

Just trying to save my energy as best as I could. So yeah, I just remember just laying in bed and thinking, like, cool, we got another chance to try to help the team to win. And again, I just try to oversimplify it. What are the basics? What do you need to do? but I think in the practices in the lead up to the World Cup in that prefectory camp in Dubai

as well as all the practices throughout it was heavily based on making contact as best as I could regardless of the outcome so I'd work a lot with Andrea Coley obviously when you come in the next and you'd back everyone has like a little 20 minute slot to bat but then I'd either try to find some time outside of that or I'd really try to break down that 20 minute slot

into how many balls I would have faced how many times I would have made contact regardless of if it's a dot, a one or a boundary how many times you make contact because you get 10, 12 balls to face you don't want to be swinging and missing three of those balls and then putting pressure on yourself to have to maximize the others

and I think in the final I think it only missed or didn't make contact with a warm ball and it was a leg bite something like that so for me it was the culmination of all that practice and our planning so the four or six is obviously didn't expect it to happen that way

but when you talk about swinging and missing as I did in the South Africa game then I had eradicated that in the Afghanistan game as well as in the finals So when you prepare for a T20 match I mean as a lower order player as what you were number about seven

yeah you're different numbers in the order but if you're lower order play you're probably thinking you're only going to get maximum six eight ten balls to face aren't you? Yeah and more Often I not know, you look at overs. So what over do I want him to come into bat?

But then I would probably not be batting before he 15th over, sometimes even 17th over. So they didn't start. I think if I come in at a 17th over, 18 balls to be bold, let's say you get half of those, it's only nine. So how can I best maximize those nine balls? Probably looking for a couple sixes. So you're 12 off two.

You might get a couple dots. So you're 12 off four. And then in those five of the balls, how can they get as much as possible? So essentially, I can guarantee the team 20, 23 runs off, 9 balls. So you're trying to see how best you can break down that spell. And then you may find yourself in a situation where, as in the idea, you're coming in the finals with Marlon batting. You don't want to concentrate on your balls, your 9 balls, so hard that you forget the situation, the game, and the person at the other end to actually be able to give them back strike.

So there's a lot of little scenarios, albeit only 10 balls. there are a lot of little scenarios that can be thrown up and it's how you can best maximise that small passenger play. What did you think of the target you were set by England? 156. Bear in mind, sometimes Indian pitches are very flat but sometimes they can be quite hard to score on

if the ball's turning or a bit slow, especially back end of the tournament where some of the pitches have been played on. I didn't find the pitch play bad at all. I thought we bowed exceptionally well. We got some early breakthroughs and then we just never allowed England to build partnerships. So every time they build a partnership, we got a wicket, we got to wake it.

But I didn't think it was a case where it was difficult to score and, you know, we should make it. I think I thought, me and Ashley sit down, we'd have a couple cups of coffee. We'd watch Marilyn or Chris or Lendell as he did in the semi-final, knock these runs off, and we'd be World Cup champions. Obviously, you don't want to think, oh, we can be champions, we can be champions. But you're trying to think, hmm, at the beginning of the day, when we put these guys into bat, we'd love 150.

we would not even have bowed a ball if you told us you have them out for 156 or defending or chasing 156 Yeah, I mean you felt like Huge favourites at the halfway stage But it didn't quite go like that Did it?

And we were so surprised We saw Joe Rutan and was just like This don't make sense We're expecting David Willie To come and sing the new ball Jordan to bowl a couple Then Planket and Stokes Then I do Rashid in the middle

You knew you had an idea Especially based on how things would have gone throughout the tournament the team they would have picked how you thought things would have gone and then Jeru rocks up

spins it from hand to hand and everyone all right let's see how this will go two wickets in the first over and then we start to think cheese wrestling

these never make it easy but once we get a partnership in we're in a good position it isn't too many runs so we can always catch back up and we could always still give ourselves

that 10, 12 over in the last three four or five over is knowing the power we have we have enough time to build a partnership, which is much different to chasing 200 where you have to constantly go, go, go. And then David Willie strikes, Lendell Simmons,

struck in front with three down, and then he's starting to think, Bravo hasn't scored much in the series, Ramden hasn't scored much in the tournament either, Sammy hasn't scored much. So you're thinking then Russell needs to come in, and I may need to actually have a big part of the play with the bat here. and then Bravo and

Marlon back for a bit Stokes had Marlon almost caught but the keeper was actually given out and then they reviewed it or double checked it, it bounced short he started thinking that's one lifeline momentum starting to switch Bravo did a decent enough job

when he got up was the perfect time lost Sammy, lost Russell then he's starting to think we're a little behind the eight ball here and I remember we were looking around and they were just like, no I want this moment and I jumped out because we didn't really sure

who was supposed to go next Sammy was batting and just got out and it was me rammed in and the bowler so just like now I'll take it obviously how previous with South Africa

was in the same situation in Afghanistan and then yeah me and Marlin come to a crease and we put on like 40 or 50 odd right well I can tell you you came in with 49 needed

of 27 balls so it was 107 for 6 after 15.3 overs when you came in right Okay, it's that time, Carlos. Radio 4 Longwave listeners are listening to the shipping forecast. I think this is a nervous moment for you, isn't it?

Right, okay, well, have a go at this. This is Carlos Brathwaite's shipping forecast. Drum rule. Viking Law Shannon 996, expected 40s 987 by midnight to night, Saldily 4 or 5, backing south-easterly 5 to 7, perhaps Gale ate later. Slight or moderate, becoming moderate or rough, occasionally very rough later.

Showers then rain, good, becoming moderate or pro. Poor. Comarty. Gale warning issued 21 58 on Sunday, 26 July 2020. Northwestly, Gale Force 8, expected later. South, 3 to 5, becoming psychonic, then west 6 to Gail 8. perhaps severe Gale 9 later. Slight or moderate, becoming moderate or rough.

Showers then rain, good, occasionally poor. Fourth, Gale Warning issued 0.349 on Monday 27th, July 2020. Westerly, Gale Force 8, expected later. South, 3 to 5, becoming cyclonic, then west 6 to Gail 8, perhaps severe Gail 9 later. or moderate, becoming moderate or rough, showers then rain, good, occasionally poor. Dogger, South 4 or 5, increasing 6 or 7, then veering west. Slight or moderate, becoming moderate or rough, rain than showers, good occasionally poor. Fischer, South 4 or 5, backing south-east 5 to 7, perhaps Gale 8 later, then veering southwest later.

Slight or moderate, becoming moderate or rough later. Showers, good, occasionally poor. German bike. South 4 or 5, backing south-east 5 to 7, then veering southwest later. Slight or moderate, becoming moderate or rough later. Showers, good, occasionally poor. Shannon. Gale Warning issued 1557 on Sunday 26 July 2020.

northwesterly Gale Force 8 expected soon South East Iceland Gale warning 0334 on Monday 27 July 2020 Gail Force 8 backing northerly imminent, northerly 5 to 7 increasing Gail 8 at times

but becoming variable 4 in West moderate or rough rain moderate or good I'm sweating. Jim Maxwell, our Australian colleague, will be very, very jealous of you. I think he'd love to read the shipping forecast, and perhaps we will get him to do that one time in the future when he's with us. Well, if ever the form goes, Carlos,

then you can become a Radio 4 continuity announce. to announce and do the shipping forecast. Yeah, that was fun. I had to be real focused. I had to be real focused. Did you understand any of it? Some of it.

So I hear about Gil for us wins because of Chris Gill. The thing about it, the shipping forecast, I mean, I've listened to it for years because it's on, you wait for it to finish so you can listen to the cricket or whatever. You don't really know necessarily what it means, but obviously it means a lot to the people

out on the sea, but it's got a lovely sort of, there's a sort of lyricism about it that is very beguiling. Yeah, I remember the first, I think it was in Southampton, the first couple days, it's just like, radio for a long wave listeners, and the shipping forecast, I was like, okay, and I hear it again, I was like, Adam,

what is the shipping four guy? And it's only then that Ali stepped in and she was like, you know, this is it, and this amount of thing. I was just so cool, and they actually listened to it who was in Oxford, they listened to like a five minute period of it, and someone had tweeted in said it's calming and I was just like this is really calming yeah it is it is it's very

calming it's something reassuring but even when it says gale force 10 imminent or something like that we left the shipping forecast with West Indies needing 49 of 4.3 overs and then of course they batted for a while Marlon Samuels and Carlos we got the last over and it was 19 to win and it was England's game it was England's game it was England's game game. Ben Stokes was bowling the last over. England were on the verge of winning their second World T20. Carlos was on strike. Ben Stokes was bowling and then this happened. Here is the first ball of the final over. 19 needed. Stokes on his way from the far end. Bowls has hit away hard and into the crowd. It's gone for six. Can you believe it? 50,000 people are on their feet. The first ball of the five.

Final over is flipped in meaty fashion, I have to say. The very good shot from leg stump into the crowd. Oh, 13 from 5. Jonathan Agney, with a commentary there. He doesn't sound very happy, does he, Carlos? He's so happy at all. You can take it up with him. Yeah, any green room or, hey, what's up, you didn't believe in me or?

Well, I think he wanted England to win. I think it's probably what it was. So, yeah. So as you started that first day, what were you thinking? 19 to win. Yeah, so as it stood, Stokes was bowling from the end that would have meant I was hitting into the leg side to the longest side of the boundary.

So I figured they had been bowling Jordan wide yorkers, Stokes, straight yorkers for the entirety of the World Cup. So they'd either go straight yorker, which would then force be to hit straight or. to that big side or Stokes would bowl the odd slow ball into the wicket

take the pace off again forcing me to hit to the leg side so he knew it was only one or two plans but really and truly I just wanted to get good bat on the ball

get the ball in the air I was actually telling my this if I get the ball in the air we cross you're on strike so it was more so me trying to get my own strike rather than me trying to be the hero

when you hit it what do you think six straight away yeah I thought it was six because it was angled down the leg and I basically just picked it up and that is the short corner at Eden Gardens so as soon as I got onto it

I figured it would have gone for six and funny enough I had played a ramp shot over before from that end off really talking to Chris Jordan after there was a little bit of decision making around if mid-off should go back or if the fine leg should go back

just because of that ramp and fine leg was actually back so once it got over his head obviously it was six yeah did you think you had a chance going into the last day. What sort of percentage chance? Do you think this is a bit of a long shot here? Yeah, I didn't want to do too much calculations. It was more about staying focus, watching the ball, staying focus, watching the ball. I remember looking up at the board and saw 19 or 6, and then if you

start to think about it too much, then you start to calculate. So I just think, watch the ball. But when it becomes 13 or 5, I didn't even look back after the first 6, and in retrospect, that's something that I saw Stokes doing in the first touches. He really, he learned from. The first three balls happened so quickly. We timed it. I was back in my club in Ireland. We timed it, it was like, saying like a minute and a half or something like that. First three balls, so it was six, get the ball ball, six, get the ball ball, six. It's only between the third ball and the fourth ball when I think Marlon and Stokes went at it, that it was actually a long time between balls. So it was basically on autopilot for the first three balls.

Whereas, in hindsight, he would have probably wanted to draw the game out a little longer. after the first six probably bring fine leg up and send it back and just give me more time to think and calculate and potentially even second guess

okay then 13 of 5 and here we go 143 for 6 5 balls to go 13 to win in come Stokes now bowls to Brathlet

hit it high down the ground again it's a huge shot that's gone 10 rows back up go the rockets and suddenly again the crowd those that were supporting the West Indies have come alive

a breathway my word well they are killer blows I mean the game's not over seven but it's four hit those two balls for six in this situation astonishing that second one was such a clean hit

it was a monster a monster cause that was Vic Marks with Jonathan And the noise in the background. Yeah, I told you about the noise. Yeah, but no, that one came out of the screws. I'd be honest. I admitted that one.

Yeah, it wasn't his best ball, but it was in, if I had to choose a hitting zone, if I had to set the bowling machine and I had to hit a six to save my life, that's exactly where he would put it. And yeah, it climbed into it, and they got that one up the screws. We surprised to get a ball there then?

Not really. I mean, it is the area that you would want. It's almost as though a meter fuller. It's the perfect. length but at that length obviously is in my hitting zone. You still go ahead and the part but it is exactly where I would want it if I had to hit a six.

So 19 off six you weren't winning the game now seven or four really you expect to win from there but again still I wasn't aware I wasn't thinking about the situation like what was the situation was I needed to get a bat on ball I firstly watch the ball get bat on ball and get

Marlon on strike. Marlon was giving it big ones but I'll just say it's not done it's not done Marlon was running circles around the stumps and around me and if you know Marlon he's not visibly emotional so he'd keep things in and punch gloves and he'd act cool and he'd act tough and after the first one he was like yeah and he was excited and emotional

and after his second one he bypassed me probably gave him like a passing knot on the way but he was around the stumps and back around me and just like Marlon just relax it he's not over walk back and again there was so little time between balls that boom straight back into it again Okay then, well let's listen to the next one 19 to win

It's now seven to win From four balls And Brathwaite is still on strike 149 for six Stokes sets off again From the edge of the circle In he comes now Bowls the right-handed Brathaway

Who swings him over long off Three successive sixes Well That's extraordinary Sixes Stokes He's just on his knees He's on his knees

Three sixes 18 off three Any sympathy For Ben Stokes on his knees Well not at that time Still needed one run to get I would never forget I was at Kings

I was leaving school And Westerners were playing South Africa at King's and Noble needing one run to win And Charles Langelfeld got a hat trick and that was the point in time that I told myself no game is ever really over so although we had one run to get

it was like don't get too high but then they had a little break something with the ball that one I thought it was out I'd be honest I didn't get that one good at all so he went to hit it the same place the second one we went back spun in my hand kind of shanked it and it ended up

like one of those bad golf shots going over mid-offish and it was heart and mouth for a bit and then as soon as they saw the field the back pedal they knew it was gone for six. The third six. The third six, yeah. And it's only then, I think, I was back into more

than, I think I then they had the break. Something was wrong with the ball. Marlon and Stokes were going at it. Morgan got involved. Because they had a bit of history, didn't they? Yes, they did. The old salute, for example. And then he stokes to tow Marlon.

Something when they come into bat, obviously it was Marlin. It was Stokes that was bowling with Marlin. the ball and he was almost caught by butler or caught on the bunks. So a bit was going on there and for me it was just like we winning I don't want to turn ugly and the focus

to be taken off the actual victory so he went down to the no-strike because I was like Marlon Cumblet you know we in the ascendancy we don't need to prove anything we're proving it right now so there's only in between the stage after the third ball there was a massive break I think it's like a minute and a half

and in a minute and a half in cricket terms It was very, very long. Then once Marlon came to the mid-pitch, the time changes ceased slightly. Then when it went back to me to the crease, then it was obviously like, England was just like, all right, you just need one run, just get overweight. What's the thing to do here?

Obviously, you bring up the field. You try to probably get me trying to get a single and have run out and you get a bit of panic or whatever. So there was a bit of time, and it's then that I said, you know, well, let me just enjoy it. You don't know if you'll ever be back here or in what situation. You may be on the other side. You've got how much of thousands of people.

We were so grateful. We might think somebody mentioned it at half time that the rest in these women who had played just before us had stayed on to watch our game. So imagine they would have been mentally tense. They got into their warm up, played their game, won it. They would have done their celebrations, have to be halted because our game had to play. and instead of going back to the hotel to celebrate on their own, they sacrificed their time to watch us play.

And just think for them for a moment, if we had lost, then they can't enjoy themselves as they would like to because obviously, yes, they've won hoo-hoo, but you've got to be kind of sensitive as well. So we had great admiration for them for sacrificing their time and their celebrations for staying with us. So my wife was with them, the families were with them, and they just looked around and they gave it the business.

the big ones, the pumping of the heart and the badge and blew some kisses and stuff. So for me, it was just that opportunity to say thank you for the ladies and share that moment. She was my girlfriend at the time, not wife, but share that moment with your girlfriend. And, yeah, I mean, how many people actually think or think they would be involved in a World Cup, far less a final? And then you get the situation where you're about to score the winning penalty or shoot the winning free throw if there was a basketball world cup or in my case at the winning runs

and you get that opportunity to share it with your girlfriend or your partner at the time yeah it was an opportunity and you just thought enjoy it even if I get out this ball you'd have had that opportunity and you would have made the most of it yeah because as a sports man or woman

you don't often get that chance just to revel in a moment you said there was quite a long time between the third ball of the over and the fourth ball of the over just that chance to soak in the atmosphere to realize what you were achieving and you know, I know it was one or three

and you say you had that experience, Shao Langerfeld and you always make sure you win the game but you must have known that you were, that was it, you've done your job by then. I kind of felt as though even if I don't get this ball for four or we don't get it a single and we don't win and I get bold or I lose my wicked or whatever.

Like I still got faith that we've at least drawn the game and I know we got two balls to get one run. to get one run from two balls. And yeah, you start to think about when someone knows they're making the debut. You fly the family to wherever they're going to play and they want your family to be involved. So for me, I had the opportunity

with my wife or girlfriend being there to actually share in this moment with my partner with the rest of these women. Me and Marlon had not gloves. And Marlon was actually a part of the think tank to bring me to his CPL team in 2014. I'd play for Barbados originally, I was selected for Barbados and he played one game

and Marlon brought me over for more money than I've ever seen at that point in time and for me to be able to share that moment with him as well it was just like cool and he always knew he was a winner as in he'd be the man probably won't set the world alight but when his time, when his real crunch time

you need someone to put the hands up more often and not Marlin would be that man. So it was a lot of little opportunities and a lot of little battles within those 10, I think I feel it's 10 balls. But all those little opportunities and scenarios were good memories. Well, let's hear the 10th ball you face now.

What an ability to produce it, when it matters from Brathwaite. Poor Ben Stokes. I can see Stephanie Taylor there. She's got the trophy sitting in the stands. And now Brathwaite on 28 waits. Stokes is on his way again.

Virtually all the field is inside the circle now. The Stokes comes in, bowls to Brather. It hits him for six and wins the game. With four successive sixes in the last over. I've never seen that before. And England looked utterly crushed. As the West Indies players come rushing out onto the field, Carlos Brathaway is an instant hero.

there we go those were Jonathan's words Carlos Brathwaite an instant hero because Ian Bishop said Carlos Brathwaite remember the name I was just listening

for it forgot it was BPC commentary or not you wonder I would have listened to so many times listening for remember the name I'll have to

I guess to say remember the name now that was a good moment and I didn't even know it right for six I knew the field was in I knew it got a good bat on it and I just turned

hands in the ear head back Marlin was on me as quickly as ever hugging me he sent it to him after he said like you hugging up he was like

yo yo yo yo low that low that so and then everybody would run on Fletcher had been ruled out of the tournament through a hamstring injury

and when you look back at the video Fletcher was leading the church head down in a deep sprint all the boys just rushing on and I think they got a cut to the jaw something someone hit the helmet it, boom, grill into jaw.

It was just a real good moment, a real good feeling. And is that those times in all professional sports, people could tell you, is that those times that time moves really, really slow and you get a chance to get feelings for so many different things. And you talk about not even being selected in the first squad to being called up, to not knowing if your squad is actually going to take the field to Bravo saying, We will.

We can win the World Cup and then winning the game actually being selected in the team, playing all the games, four sixes. It was a good moment. And they didn't even give you the man of the match.

You took three for 23, four sixes to win the game. And Martin obviously played very well as well at the other end. He was 85, not out, which is a fantastic effort. And the thing is, I really wanted the Hugh Blow.

I really wanted the Hublo watch, you know, somebody asked me, do you? do you do you think I'd say that I don't really win

money matches I was always the person that would come in and I would get the wicked to break the partnership and then somebody

else would go on and get five and they would get money match I was like but I probably have a good chance but I wasn't

thinking about it too much it was about celebrating and stuff then actually you know you just hit

four sixes I was like okay so you four of him up a six everything was happening and then we missed

Marlin for a bit and we were told well, got money match. He was going to a press conference, an iconic press conference since then. But yeah, but it was just like, geez, could have given me the money match

and give him me the watch. Here's a question from Matthew Warren. What are your thoughts on the Carlos Brathwaite remember the name commentary? No. No way look back on it. That's iconic. and a great privilege and pleasure

but in the aftermath of it play test cricket got dropped and funny enough I got dropped from the one day team just asked her as well and then it was a case of me trying to live up to the expectations put on me by media and myself really trying to put too much pressure on myself

to be that hero every single time I played or batted and then people will come up to me remember the name and I would always think crap it would always carry me back to those four sixes that made people remember my name remember the four sixes see what I could do and that is probably where the pressure started from so at first it was cool and then a few months later and the performances started to dip then they started to think crap this is the source of the pressure so it used to feel like a burden it used to feel like a I used to call it a little bit of a curse so people say we can't remember you know they and it started like you don't

want to hear it and all of a sudden from me and actually embracing it and enjoying it I used to shy away from it a bit I used to fight shying away from that but also trying to live up to the expectation that that brought and it had me a bit of a conundrum there's only last couple years that I said, you know what, regardless of if you never, ever do anything else in your career, and I have done other stuff, just not to that magnitude, obviously, then you would have had an impact on so many people in the West Indies, and the way that you would have done it was a way that people would remember for a long period of time. It is a privilege to have that bestowed upon you, so don't look at it,

remember the name or the forces as a burden or a curse, actually enjoy it. So since then, people would have come up to me and told me all sort of stories, and no way can actually have a conversation about it because they embrace it. But in the direct aftermath of it, it felt like a huge burden. Yeah, it's interesting. I mean, I can see how that would happen. Bill Chidley on the subject of expectation. He says, given the 1980s West Indies team was the best cricket team

the world has ever seen, how heavy is the weight on the shoulders of the current generation? Is it a help or a hindrance the rich history of West India's cricket? It can be a help. because you find a lot of allies in foreign parts who say I love wrestling these I grow up watching wrestling do this, watching rescindies do that

so you find so many more people that you can have conversations with about cricket, about past glories but it becomes a hindrance when people start to say Kimmer Roach is the next Jason Holder is the next and I mean a professional sport

with the way of media these days you can't get away from it but what I would have loved is if they had a better pathway and a better transition from the 80s to the 90s to the 90s to know where we are. I felt as though we were good, we took it for granted

after everyone stopped the struggle and then had fleeting, brilliant, good players, legends then you had no one, then you struggled again, and now we see Grescentric's starting to pick back up in all formats and for me the most important thing

is leading from the 2020s as we in now to actually have a path where you watch australian english cricket past players they go on afterward they improve themselves with coaching badges and that sort of stuff um broadcasting and they have an influence on the current generation in my opinion it may be controversial actually had a short conversation on mike holding about it um in the restaurant of i think end of the last test or something like that i don't think as though the past players would have done themselves enough justice to be able to translate what they knew

into teaching the present crop of players how to do what they did. They took for granted that because they knew how to do it, that they can tell us how they did it and we automatically know how they did it. Harun Rashid, I was a similar sort of subject really, but could you tell us about any players you've come across whilst playing for Barbados or the West Indies

who you thought had great talent but just sadly never made it? so much Shamar Brooks was almost he was almost going to be top of my list um Jeddierwood he scored the most runs in under 19 for Barbados in the season

at regional level I remember batting with him he got 169 and I came into bat when he was like 80 odd I made 22 and when I got out he was 1.40 and the way he commanded fast bowling whether short whether full swinging or seeming you just thought he

gone. He had real issues with his weight and his fitness and he never, I don't think he's ever played for Barbados and he, in my generation, he would probably be the biggest miss. There was another guy from Trinidad who would have been just before me left arm

spinner, I can remember the name, but Shamar Brooks came back from his first on the 19 World Cup and saying this is the best spin bowler he's ever seen. He was able to bowl four balls at that time and bowl all under 10 cent piece. different paces, different dips and flight.

Trinidadian, born, I think, a thing I mentioned. Trinidadian left arm spinner, and then he just had the hips, and no way to be seen. Daniel Kranach says, I think Carlos has been fantastic on this tour, and I'd be honoured if you could ask my question. Well, there we go, Daniel. As a fellow sportsman, does Carlos think that the devastation brought aback for Ben Stokes in that final over at Eden Gardens

was almost needed for him to become the genius he's become. His career seems to follow the classic narrative of a Hollywood movie, tragedy and loss, followed by resounding victory against the odds. And this is a question I was going to ask. I was a good question, Daniel. Has he talked to Ben much since I said to you what was going on on the field there? But have you had a chance to talk to Ben Stokes? Right after the game.

So before the World Cup, I said they don't eat out as much as they should. they don't get out and enjoy the experience as much as they should and they want to start collecting players' jerseys that I play against and they play tournaments with and watch for now. So I'd made it my business to get a jersey from almost every single team that I played against from one of the players I would have admired. And before that game, I'd say if we play England again,

in the final, I'd want Ben Stokes jersey. And just so happened the way, it did happen. So I called CJ after... Chris Jordan after the... final and it's a commissurations tough luck um he was real happy for me he was like if i if we had to lose i wanted to be the way that it was to my good friend the way that he did it so he really appreciated that and they say if i could talk to stokes if he like disconsolate crying angry or whatever then fine but if he's cool then things like everybody chilled um so apparently they

had like this moment of just reflection and then everybody just like you know what let me enjoy the journey, bam-and-bum, and then they acted as though nothing ever happened. They started to take jokes out of each other and what's not with me, he's dressed him in real light. So by the time I came across, he was already in a better mood, and we talked, and I told him I would

like his jersey and stuff, and he said, well-played, and I told him that someone had to win, someone had to lose, and expected to be that way, and he was like, no, man, well-played and things. So it was not a big, long chat, but a moment of mutual admiration and we speak a bit

but not full-fledged conversations more high and by how things how you're doing in Southampton he had a little problem with his foot asking me if his foot was good if he was wearing tennis shoes to the poor cricket shoes not deep conversation but I can't take credit for what happened to him

he needs to take all the credit for how he reacted in the aftermath and you think something like Stuart Broad getting it for six sixes but you've rather sing he's now embarking on 500 test wickets. There are these characters that might not necessarily need it, but with that public humiliation or devastation,

they then go on to find themselves and get a greater purpose. And I don't know if that was it for him, but he certainly's gone on to show what he's made of and for him to get back up. And, you know, almost four years later, completely 360 transatlantic, transformed the image of himself and his meaning to the team and his leadership in a good group of players. You must salute him and give him great credit.

I'm just trying to haul this out of my memory. Have you faced him since? Yeah. Very first ball. The very first ball after, so the World Cup happened 2016. The next time I would have played against him and actually faced him was, I think, the one day. series in 2018 and the very first ball he bowed to

me after that he got me out in Barbados LBW ball kept a bit low he went back for a massive cat ball jagged back plumb in front so that was a bit anti-climactic that's the game of cricket though isn't it two last questions Carlos it's been a great hour or so

and I sense your voice is just beginning to flag a bit two last questions Mary says what are your memories of playing in Ireland did you try the Guinness so memories of playing in Ireland so actually Actually, Leinster Cricket Club, that's where he played. Their women's group have a walk to Lords thing, so they've measured the distance from Lenskeret Club in Ireland to Lords,

and everyone's going to walk a certain distance until they get that. So credit to them, and they wish them well in the adventure. Yeah, have fond memories. So I used to love the Boulmer's cider, but I think that was $4.90 or something like that, 4.90. and I just remember thinking it was so cool to hang with the guys

and drink this cider and it tastes good and then I remember someone buying a pint of Guinness for me I think it was two euro or something that was like that's making much sense

the Guinness is more traditional to Ireland I guess it's from the draft and it's a lot cheaper this could actually save me some money this summer so I actually switched to Guinness

just because it was cheaper but I really love the Guinness I don't like Guinness in Barbados because it's the bottle, but the Guinness in Ireland is delightful. Only good memories from Ireland. Me and my wife have been back to shout the boys last year. It was being the 10th year anniversary of us winning the All-Ireland. So in Ireland, there's Northern Ireland, Republic of Ireland, two different cricket unions and stuff,

but there's a tournament that all the teams play almost like an FAA Cup type of thing. And that was the first, and I think only time that the club of work. won it and I was a part of it so we celebrated it last year I went over to Ireland for a little bit just before the World Cup so I still stay in contact with the boys and only fond memories

man I kind of dedicated my line if they didn't want me to find another Barbadian pro or another pro that I would have come across funny story so Shubman Gill would share the dressing route of KKR and he would say you know he wants to go overseas and test

himself in English conditions. So I was asking, would you be interested in playing in Ireland, club cricket? And he was like, yeah, you know, I really don't care to be paid well. I just want to test myself in the conditions over the course of a couple months. And I say, look, I'll get on to some guys that play the club in Ireland. They're fantastic group of men. I'll pitch you to them. So I asked one of the guys, I won't call his name, so he won't be ridicule.

So I asked one of the guys, I was like, do you guys have a pros yet? And he said, no, they're flirting with one or two guys, still in negotiations. So like, well, Shubman Gill, he's played for India on a 19, good record. He wants to come to Ireland, not massive payment, just, I guess, housing and stuff. And he was like, okay, cool, does he go to university? I was like, Shubman Gill, on the 19 player, India on the 19, he's playing in the IPL, da-da-da-da. He was like, all right, cool, well, if he wants to come over and do university, we'd be happy to try to help him to get to university, we'll give him a job. And I repeated it about three times, and every time he can.

came back on this scenario about Shul McGill working part-time when I went over last year and they told the guys about it and obviously

by then now Shoeingil had skyrocketed and he finished the IPL with all these big numbers and he's since played for India

everybody slated him he was he was the villain of the summer last summer so good story because they missed out on him

because they missed out on him they could have had Shud Mangil for a whole summer but yeah they've been good to me and I look back on my time in Ireland with four memories. Last one, Carlos, for now anyway.

From Stefan. Can you name all the T20 teams you played for? No. I probably can't. I try to name 10. So the T20 teams in the Caribbean, Barbados, because he was a Caribbean T20, so he played for your country.

And then in CPL, I play for Barbados, Tridents. Antigua, Hawks, Bills, St. Kitts and Nevis Patriots and have been just drafted to Jamaica Tallowers. Five in the Caribbean alone. In England, play for

Kent. Australia, Big Bashel play for Sydney Sixers and Sydney Thunder. IPL. That's eight? Yeah, IPL. Delhi, they're

Devils. Two years. Sunrisers, Hyderabad. and KKR 11 Okay Jeez

You've forgotten the Quetta gladiators The Koolna Titans and the Lahore Kalenders And Peshawar Zalmi as well Not forget Left out Left out

Yeah I don't want the fans To feel I forgot about them No it had some good times Man And got a lot of good memories From me I don't think I had a team

where I felt as though he desperately wanted to get away from them. Always had decent memories and decent relationships. Well, you've provided some fantastic memories over the last. Well, actually, it was an hour and 20 minutes at zip by, or perhaps it didn't, I don't know. Time flies when you're having fun. Well, you know, wonderful memories of 2016, and, you know, from now until the day you die, you'll better remember that moment, that achieved something incredible there, really. Yeah, I appreciate it.

And as I say, now the thoughts have changed more to our privilege. It is a lot easier, it's a lot easier cross the beer, as you will say. So I actually like to listen to people coming up to me and say, oh, I didn't think you could do it, or I always thought you could do it. And people just come up and think to me and say, it was this place or that place and this is a situation or whatever. So it's fun. This is the TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live.

Wonderful to hear all those stories from Carlos Brathwaite He'll be back with us for one final day Join us from 1045 for the last day of the series And check out BBC Sounds for a Tuffers and Vaughn podcast And a look back on the Gouche 333 test of 30 years ago today All the details on the BBC Sport website and app BBC Sounds Music, radio podcasts

Yergan, you're a big fan of the BBC Sounds app Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Well, we've heard reports that you've been enjoying the Football Daily podcast on it. I loved it. That makes me quite happy, to be honest. Jose, Football Daily is bringing top analysis and comment on BBC Sounds. How do you feel about that? Of course, it's the best thing in football. Are you a fan, Oli?

Yeah, I love that. Wow, this is massive. Pep, Football Daily has some big-named guests. Are you excited to listen? This is a good news for us. The team is really good. Listen to the Football Daily podcast on the BBC Sounds app.