Test Match Special - Day 5: Anderson’s 600, an England series win and the Headingley miracle one year on

Episode Date: August 25, 2020

A momentous day for James Anderson as he becomes the first seamer to reach 600 Test wickets. Jonathan Agnew presents from the Ageas Bowl as the TMS team, including Michael Vaughan, Daniel Norcross and Andy Zaltzman, pays tribute. We hear from Anderson himself on his achievement and there’s further insight from his partner-in-crime Stuart Broad about Anderson’s ability, when he first became aware of him and their friendship. There are also reflections on England's series win over Pakistan including interviews with Joe Root, Azhar Ali and Jos Buttler. Lastly, one year on from England’s incredible 3rd Test win against Australia at Headingley, Jack Leach joins us to discuss all the memorable moments: his near-run-out, his vital single and the moment Ben Stokes won the match.

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from BBC Radio 5 Live. I'm Jonathan Agnew. Welcome to the Test Match Special podcast. Looking back on the final day of the test summer, a short day, but an historic one, with James Anderson taking his 600th test wicket. We'll hear from Anderson, the player of the series Joss Butler,

and Joe Root and the Pakistan Captain Azar Ali. We'll get the views of Buck Vaughn, with Daniel Norcross, and a special tribute to Anderson from Stuart Broad. And on the one-year anniversary of that Ashes match at Heddingley, We hear from one of the heroes that day, Jack Leach. But before all of that, here was the moment

that James Anderson reached that special landmark. 109 for 2 of Anderson. Moves in, bells the right-handed as a... He's caught. He's caught at slip. And Jimmy Anderson becomes the first fast bowler in the history of the game to take 600 wickets. He's done it. He could easily have done it early.

so many catches were dropped off him but Joe Root was not going to drop that and I saw Root last night he's walked past and what are you going to do? He said we'll get him there and he's taken the catch that has done so and he's showing the ball around well to nobody but he's got a big smile

at his face that's better sweeps back his hair and he's got there he's done it 600 wickets you're listening to the TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live

Well, let's start our review of the day. It was a truncated day. It didn't begin until 4.15. We had an enormous amount of rain overnight. Storm Francis deposited, well, inches and inches of rain. The outfield held up pretty well, but there were some concerning patches. And even though the rain had stopped by around about 12, half, 12, it took three and a half hours to clear up. There was so much water on the covers. And there were some patches over by the groundsman's hut, which just stubbornly refused to go away regardless of the administrations of the ground staff who've been excellent throughout in this match. When finally England did get out there, all eyes were on Jimmy Anderson, of course, marooned on 599 wickets overnight. It didn't take him long to get there. He got to 600 when Azarali fenced at a ball in the channel, caught well by route. It went quickly to him above his head, and that was the 600. It was a lovely moment, actually, because the... Colleagues in Sky, some of them came out onto their balconies.

I'd witnessed a few of us were on the balconies just clapping. It's so strange for him to reach such an extraordinary milestone in this very surreal atmosphere. And he showed the ball to all parts of the ground, even though there weren't very many people in it, of course. It was beautiful to watch. His teammates were obviously so delighted for him. Thereafter, only one more wicket fell.

It was the wicket of Arsadhafiq, who was called at short. leg off. The bowling of Joe Root, England just couldn't get the ball to deviate off this pitch. The ball itself was soft and old and was doing nothing. And Root resorted to a combination of spinners, some in the loosest sense of the word. Dominic Sibley turned his arm over for an over, which didn't go awfully well. Root picked up a wicket. Don Best didn't. And when the final hour began, only one ball was bowled and then all the players trooped off,

which I do find by Corvorn a little odd. I mean, I do know your point that, you know, they just wanted to, maybe the job was going to get home now. But the ground staff has sent ages getting this ready and getting it prepared. There was a new ball there. We've talked a lot in this series about Pakistan, not really having a lot of batting after the six-wicket falls. Stuart Broad had the ball in his hand. Jimmy Anderson was quite fresh. The light's now improving, actually, as that cloud's gone away.

There was a chance to pick up two quick wickets, to expose the tail and finish on a high. So there will be listeners who are thinking that's a curious. Yeah, I guess with the test championship now and obviously more points for the win, there'll be many that say, why did England stay out there? But I just think they've kind of had enough of all this. And they want to get home. You know, today's the day, not to kind of moan about England not bowling on. It's about Jimmy Anderson.

Jimmy Anderson. I know it's not in the perfect scenario where you've got a full house and everyone's roaring and would have probably stayed on the feet for 10 or 15 minutes afterwards. that's generally what the England crowds do. But I think when he drives home tonight, whether it'll sink in tonight or tomorrow over the next week or so, it's an incredible achievement.

When you just look at that list of great, great bowlers, and he's now as a scene bowler at the top of them in terms of wicket-taking, and he's just got three above him. Annal Cumberley's 19 away. He could easily get past Annal Cumberley and go into third spot. Will he have enough to get past Shane 1?

It's over 700. I'm not too sure. Will he get to Murray Lither and 800, I don't think he can get the 800. When he takes a boffspin? Well, maybe he'll have to, but I just think it's a remarkable achievement. In English sport, we don't generally

we sometimes praise too much and then we criticise, but I think we're witnessing something that's truly, truly great. I thought we felt that when Alistair Cook kind of walked off at the Oval with that 100 and that was a great, great moment. And I know this isn't the same kind of feeling because

there's no crowd, but in a funny way, now I'm not a player and obviously I was a batsman I have so much respect for bowlers you know the tireless hours and the aching bodies that jimmy andersen must have woken to for 17 years as a test match player you know i don my cap for anybody that can stay at this level for five years 10 years is remarkable to stay at this level as a seam bowler for 17 years is nothing short of incredible and you know whatever comes his way he deserves it you know i think the way that he's managed body the way that he's managed his skill levels

over the years and developed new skills wallable seam, wider the crease, not as much swing, that in-swinger to the right-hander and the away swinger to the left-hander. I remember that first few series that he played, his ball booming out swingers to right-hand batsman. His first wicket, Mark Vermoulin was

one of those, a beautiful delivery that clipped the top of off. You know, so I think he's a great lesson. I've said for a few months that whatever happens to Stuart Royal and Jimmy Anderson, English cricket has to eke out every ounce of information. because our next generation need to know exactly how he's done it. We need to put it into context, you know.

It's the difference between him, the 600 wickets between him and other scene bowlers. Glenn McGrath is closest to him, 17 wickets behind. Glenn McGrath, an all-time, great, absolutely no doubt about that. Then you plunge all the way down to 519 for Courtney Walsh and below that, Stuart Broad. Jonathan Agnew has got the Pakistan captain with him, though, Azar Ali. Let's go straight down. Well played.

Hi, thank you very much. You're happy with that now, with the way you batted? Yeah, of course, it was very important innings for me. Obviously, it was tough. First two test matches for me, I was under a lot of pressure. But I tried to keep things simple, and it worked. Yeah. You just need to change your technique a little bit.

You just opened out a little bit. Is that fair to see? Yeah, of course, you know, I was getting stuck with my front foot a lot, falling over a little bit, but also committing my front foot too early. So I worked on it with coaches and also had quite a few throwdowns over there. It helped me during the goal. Obviously, you know, whatever you do unless you score some runs, it doesn't, you know, you don't feel as confidence unless you have scored under your belt.

So when I got my first 50 done, then I think I was feeling a lot comfortable. Good. We certainly looked like it. You played beautifully. What do you make of the series as a whole? I think fantastic series. I think it's under the circumstances. I think hats off to the people who were organized in such a short time. You know, at least we got cricket going. People can watch it on the, if not in the ground, at least on TV.

It's great for the game, great for the fans. And also, I think some wonderful cricket has been played. Unfortunately, the weather was around. But you can't control that. But I think it was a fantastic series. We enjoyed every bit of it. And nice to be back playing cricket. Yeah.

And the spirit was so good. good between the teams as well as I mean over the years there have obviously been a few issues with England and Pakistan test series but this was played so well yeah of course I think fantastic both team played with great spirit I think which is very important there was obviously you know both team was fighting for the win but both had respect for each other which is very important and as I said earlier I think both teams enjoyed the great game of cricket and which is very nice to see James Anderson you're there They're on his list. Number 600, Aza.

Yeah, of course, at least I will get some more air time now. You will. Because they will show the wicket again and again. But hats off to him. Fantastic bowler. I always rate him, you know, one of the toughest, you know, I always say I found him the toughest bowler, especially in English conditions.

He doesn't give you anything. And he keeps testing your technique every time, every ball you have to bring your A game. So hats off to him, the character, he shows on the field, the determination to play test cricket for so long. As a fast bowler, I know it's not easy, but he still bowl some decent pace with swing and seem. We all know he can do.

And congratulations to him the way he has been able to get 600 wickets. I hope I wish him all the best. Whatever he can achieve more, I wish him all the best. And that particular delivery, what was going through mine? Did it bounce a bit? We're looking to run it? Yeah, I think it got some extra bounce on it. A ball before also got it, but I think I played away from my body.

But, you know, with reverse swing was happening a little bit. I couldn't be able to see the shine at that time. But I think it was more of bounce than swing got me. Just the last one. Zach Crawley, he's only 22. How do you rate that innings? Fantastic inning. I think he also scored 50 in the last test match on a very tough wicket.

I think he made it look so easy. He's a fantastic player. A bright future ahead of him and getting 2.50 plus score so early in your career shows how good he is, how confident he is. Obviously, there will be challenges ahead of him

but I'm sure he'll be a bright future for England. I congratulate him for his fantastic inning as well. Well, Asa, thank you for talking to us. Well played. You entertained us royally in this match and we'll catch up with you again soon. Thank you. Azar Ali, a charming gentleman actually. and nice of him to come over and chat like that

but there he is he'll always be there on that replay list however more wickets Jimmy Anderson does take that one will be there featuring all the time Michael Vaughan I think is still up there and anything you picked out of what Azarelli had to say there Michael no I mean he's a gentleman

I think Pakistan are in good hands I know he's not at the best of times as captain but I think the hundred here will give in a huge amount of confidence and I think he'll learn from that last afternoon at Old Trafford where he didn't quite get it right. I'm sure he sits back tonight and when he travels home, he'll start to look at the tactical side of what he could have done differently in that partnership of Joss Butler and Chris Wokes.

But I think over the years, if he stays true to himself and he strays through to these young players, particularly the likes of Nassim Shah and Shaheen Afridi, in those two, he's got two wonderful young quick bowlers, Mohammed Abbas, we know what he can deliver. this Pakistan test team look decent when you've got Babara Zam he's up there with the best of them

with the bat in hand and when they get in conditions that favour their star which is on pitches they're a little bit slower a bit lower spin plays apart we know they're going to be a threat to any team around the world so I think they're a team

that if you get them when the ball's swinging around you fancy your chances but if you get them in you don't have to look at how hard it's been for England to get the wickets on this wicket where there hasn't been the zip and the pace there hasn't been as much lateral movement and Pakistan have made it difficult for them so I think over the next few years

they're going to be a team that can surprise a few I think it is worth talking about the spirit between the two teams as well because there has been bad blood over the years between England and Pakistan in Test Series you know what they've all been about and so on but I think that has been really clearly

put away now and these two teams clearly had great respect for each other yeah and I think obviously Azaral is a fantastic guy Babbra Azami, he'll lead the T20s, starting on Friday, again, a very humble character. And then you look at the coaching team, you know, Mizbah Hulhaks very similar. You know, there was never any real problems when MISB was captain against England.

And then you've got Waka Yunus, Moshak Ahmed. You've got Eunice Khan, again, in the coaching team of Pakistan, all good people. I think, you know, they need to be playing in a way that, you know, that sends a message that the game's being played in the right spirit. As do the England team, I think that's a very strong message. all teams around the world now identify as that it's important to send that message. You're going to have to look at the Ashes series last year. I thought that was played in great spirit as well. We had the Ben Stokes innings from Hedley on just earlier.

It reminds us at the end of the Australians how, you know, in defeat they were giving Ben Stokes and Jack Leach some, you know, strong handshakes and hugs. That's what cricket's all about. You play it tough, but ultimately you've got to be respectful of your opponents. and I think this Pakistan team and England have played a series where we've seen plenty of that. It's waiting for people to appear.

I'm down here on the boundary edge in our interview position. There's no one coming out of the England dressing room at all. I wonder what's going on in there. I think there might have been some revving of engines and a cloud of dust and people were driving home for the first time in weeks. But maybe they're just sitting down

and having a chat about that whole experience, maybe the fact that for those who aren't playing in the T20s and one day internationals, that is it now and they might not see each other for a while. Yeah, I would think that those kind of conversations would have been done this morning when the rain was around. I think the lobbyist sat around and just probably talking about Jimmy Anderson and I'm sure the captain, the coach, maybe Stuart,

broad, his close friend will be making a speech just to revel in what we've just seen, the incredible achievement. I do know that all the players did drop, because they've had to park over your side, aggers, which is the dressing room side, and they all drove around this morning to pack up their car. So I do know that they're all ready to go at that end of the ground. So I don't think you see as many walking across the pitch

as we generally do at the end of the day's play. They've deserved. I think the England team, we've praised the Westerners. We've praised Pakistan, but this England side have showed a huge amount of character to do what they've done over the course of the last 10 weeks. Yeah. They might be like a Formula One start.

starting grid out there by the sounds of it. Jimmy Anderson getting that 600th wicket and it's done. That frees quite a lot up, doesn't it? I mean, it's almost as if England can now have a blank sheet of paper. There's not that complication in the background, the sort of loyalty that you have. Milestones matter in sport. And I know a lot of people are saying,

come, it's only one wicket, but actually it does matter. And so now, actually, they can get on with the job of dealing with Jimmy Anderson and to a certain extent Stuart abroad as well without any of that complicating things in the background I think we're making a little bit too much of it I guess he's 38 and he's saying he's playing on he'll be in Sri Lanka and he'll be in India

wherever that series is I don't think he'll play every game I think they'll use him accordingly I don't think Stuart and Jimmy will play together in subcontinent conditions if it's one of them if any of them but I'm sure both of them will go and the next summer against India it's about how England developed this team and this bowling an attack for the conditions that they're going to find themselves in Australia, but also win.

You know, the two series against India, both away and then at home, are going to be tough series because they're a high-quality team and you've got to beat them, you know, you've got to find a way of getting 20 wickets and the challenge would be harder in India or in Abu Dhabi or whatever that series it takes place more so than it will be with the jute ball next summer in English conditions. And then obviously in Australia, if they're carrying on and they're giving us all the indications that they both want to, again, it'll be about. you know, which combinations are going to be right for each week. In Brisbane, would it be

Anderson and Broad together? You'd suggest not, probably broad in Adelaide with the pink boy, you'd probably say Anderson and maybe not, we're not too sure at this stage, but you know, we can only go on what they're telling us and both of those players and Jimmy Anderson with that interview he gave a week last Monday he's clear in his mind

he wants to play on and why should we doubt him? You know, just because he's 38 and he had that off week in Manchester where he did look a bit old. Well, he's come back and he hasn't looked old since. He's bowl great here. He's got the seven wickets. He wants to play on.

I think we should just revel in however long he plays for, because I don't know if we'll see a bowler like Jimmy again in Test Match Cricket to play for 17 years, doing what he's done, week after week, series after series. So however long he plays for, I guess we just should sit back and just enjoy the ride. Yep, well, I agree with that wholeheartedly. I can see him walking down the steps beside me here. He's got his hands thrust very deep in his pocket. It's Zach Crawley's here smiling.

Clearly, man in the match. I wonder if he might be England's player of the series as well. Josh Butler, I can see, coming down. So things are starting to happen, and we'll get to chat to one or more of these in a moment. And we'll see who's going to come around here first. Josh Butler's there as well. Let's just see who's going to come here first, shall we? because we've got the usual marshalling going on.

It's a little bit different these days down here, of course, because normally I'm out there on the field, and you can just go and ambush players and shove a microphone in front of their noses and they have to talk to it here. It's a case of them being led over, if you like. And who we're going to speak to first? We'll go to speak to Jimmy Anderson first.

He's just on his way now. There's some rather strange music going on the back. I'm not quite sure what that's all about, whether it'll affect the fact that God's shout at each. from two metres away. Jimmy, give us a smile. That is a smile. You could do, it was bigger than that when he got the wicket.

What a moment that was. Yeah, to be honest, I woke up this morning, not expecting to be getting the chance to do it today. I think the ground staff have done an amazing job getting any play at all today, so hats off to them. But yeah, just delighted to get there and obviously special moment to share it with the lads

for Rudy to catch it for it to be a decent ball I didn't want it to be a down the leg side strangle so yeah for it to be a decent ball and as I said Rudy caught it having mates out there I've shared some very special moments with throughout their careers and my career

has been made it even more special it was like that little session being created just for you did you feel that did you feel the pressure on you because if all the cameras are pointing on you you're on telly all the time as if there's nothing else to talk about

really for the game you've got to go out there and we're all expecting you to do it yeah I mean I wasn't holding out too much expectations to be honest because the wicket was slow

the ball was old but yeah just luckily there was a ball in there that managed to do enough to find the edge but yeah there was I did feel a little bit more expectation on that spell

in particular just because as you said the game was sort of it was always going to be very difficult for us to force a result in that short period of time. Yeah. There's been lots of TV programs,

as you've undoubtedly seen while they've been sitting out watching the rain, that young man running in against Zimbabwe with the red in your hair, getting Vermeulen out. And then, I mean, to go, to chart all the progress through, how your actions change,

how your run-ups change, how your hair's changed. It's been an awful lot that's evolved down those 17 years. Yeah. I did see a couple of clips of the first thing that you know, you notice is the hair.

There's some very dubious decisions that I've made down the years with that. But yeah, the actions changed a lot, certainly from that first test match against Zimbabwe at Lords. Do you surprise yourself when you see it? Yeah, yeah, it does. You know, how it sort of evolved over the years.

And, you know, I do feel like now I'm, or certainly the last sort of 10, 12 years, I've gone back to where, you know, my action was right at the start of my career when I was a 12-year-old down at Burning Cricket Club. So I like the way that's evolved. You know, I guess you have to go through the tough parts of the game to appreciate more the good bits,

which luckily over the last few years I've been able to enjoy a few. Yeah. It's a lot of pressure, stroke, sort of complications removed now that you've got that wicket. It took one, if you like, but how long you're going to play for? All those sort of questions that have been lingering around, it's kind of a clear piece of paper now isn't it

and from everyone's perspective yeah I think personally I've struggled a little bit this summer just with the fact that we couldn't get away from cricket everywhere you know you wake up you open your curtains and the cricket grounds there and I found it really hard to switch off

and it felt like there was a lot of sort of noise around you know whether it's myself or Stuart you know how long we're going to to carry on for things like that and i sort of got distracted about actually what i do best and that's bowling well for for england in test cricket and i think i really got back to that this week i really focused on i did some technique work before the before the game started and i felt in a really good place this is you know annoyingly it's the last test for it could be could be for a good few months now and i feel in great rhythm but um you know it's nice to get back to it nice to get five wickets

in the first innings and get back to the form that i know i can i can um show and Hopefully that can continue for however long it might be. Sure. All those drop catches, Jimmy. I mean, crikey. What were you thinking? Yeah, I mean, it was... I thought...

I was Stuart. What was going on there? Well, I mean, it hit him on his forearm, to be fair, so can that class as a drop catch? It's not going to hit his hand. No, it's one of those things, you know. I just tried to... Obviously, it was frustrating at the time,

but then you've got to try and get back to the end of your mark and focus on the next ball being in the wrong, right place and trying to find that edge again. They just feel it might not happen. Yeah, I mean, I think fortunately when you've played a lot that you kind of, you do get days like that where you just think, right, it's not

might not be my day today, but I'll come back tomorrow and hopefully they'll take the chances and that's what you've got to try and keep focusing on and that's what I did. Jimmy, thank you very much. Looking forward to working with you soon. So, that was nice. Thanks to Jimmy Anderson for that. A little bit of insight there, of course, as to what has been going.

Now, Josh Butler, it's quite difficult down here. He's obviously being interviewed. He has to tell me in my headphones, is he man of the match? Man of the series, like? Man of the series, okay, thank you. Because I'm not sure, Michael,

so I've got no screens or anything down here. Well, it was entertaining, as usual, in his laconic way. Yeah, I mean, it was a nice interview. Again, an indication of, you know, a senior pro that's found this environment quite tough, but, you know, what senior pros are very good at is going back and realizing what they have to do,

and that's exactly what Jimmy's done. technique work again a reminder that it doesn't matter how long you've played the game there are little technical flaws that can creep into your game and he had to iron those out and he has done that probably the experience of knowing what to do at the right times and triggering his mind into just focusing is again an experience thing that you can do over the years the more you play the more you understand that you can switch back into this kind of it's just a simplicity mode that just realizing that you've just got to deliver what you can deliver and that's exactly what Jimmy has done

in the last few days he mentioned when the next test matches is who knows when that may be he deserves a break as all the players do they need a little breather Joe Root's going to play T20 cricket on Thursday which surprised me he's going to play for Yorkshire in the vitality blast as are some of the players

but the likes of Jimmy Anderson and Stuart board I think they should rest up for a while yeah it's interesting what he's saying about the bubble as well wasn't it there was no there was no escape was basically what he was saying, wasn't there, that everything has sort of magnified itself while they were stuck in the bubble. And that was quite an interesting observation. I thought he couldn't get away from it. Josh Butler, talking not being able to get away.

He's coming here in a second, which is nice. Player of the series, he's even running around, which is very thoughtful of him and clutching what looks to be a very nice little prize there. Well on, Josh. Thank you. Yeah, that's a terrific series you've had there. yeah it's been nice obviously at the start of it feeling under pressure and etc but nice to have been able to keep the self-belief and come through it still plenty to work on of course but yeah it's been a enjoyable end to the summer I'm just guessing a bit but I think that innings here not even the number of runs but the way you the way you got them so test cricket style if like will really really have pleased you yeah it really pleased me it was just great to be in that partnership as well I think you know the way Zach was playing it was quite natural to just sit in and be there at the other end, really. He was scoring so freely and, you know, I thought my determination was to try and face as many balls as I could

and the situation we were in in the series, we knew if we got big first inning runs, sort of take the series home for us. So, yeah, delighted to occupy the crease, and that's, I think, a good template for me moving forward. Yeah, and a quick word about Jimmy Anderson, obviously. Finally, the catch stuck. Yeah, finally someone held on to one.

It went to Rootie. It's an incredible achievement, isn't it? I think we're all in awe of the way he continues to perform. He's got so many different skills. It's fascinating for us all to watch. And I think the longevity is quite incredible, isn't it? The number of test matches he's played, his career spans so long,

and he's still in such great shape and makes bowling look so easy, and I think he could go on for much longer. He talked about the pressure of being enclosed bubble and how he found it quite difficult to just clear his mind every now and then are you pleased to be being released and get home yeah I am it's certainly been really challenging for everyone you know especially having an extended squad and guys who haven't been playing as well we're really tough on them to be you know sort of locked away and I think in

in ways you know no crowds have some ways made it easier in some ways made it harder I think there's a lot less emotion in the game without the crowd you know the who's and ours that go with And I think that, you know, as well as a play, you know, you miss that and those ups and downs. But at the same time, sort of allows you to focus and takes you back to sort of playing as a kid really. No one's watching. You're just playing because you love playing the game. So there's been pluses and negatives to it. It's obviously a great shame, you know, England's greatest bowler getting 600 wickets. An empty stadium, you know, it would have been fantastic to have a full house here to watch him get that achievement.

Drive safely. Enjoy your break. Thank you. Thank you, Josh, for talking to us. Thank you. there we go man of the series joss butler for those particular those two wonderful innings that he played in the course of it was still waiting for for the england captain who's standing there because i think he's actually got to do an interview for tv before we we get to have a quick chat with him but some of the players and coaches i see wandering off and and leaving and i think you're right michael just relieved to be to be going home for well i can report aggers so we're We can see beyond the dressing rooms to the hill where the cars are parked, and to our right, there has been many cars flying down that hill. I think a few have escaped early. They were revving up as soon as that last ball was bald. They went, right, I'm off.

And I would think Mark Wood would have been at the front of that queue. He's got a long drive back up north. So drive carefully, Woody, if you are listening, yeah, it's been a long week, a few weeks for all the players. And especially mention to those players that haven't actually played a lot, Jack Leeks, Mark Wood, James Bracey. How they've kept their mentality, the way that they have, is remarkable. It's easier when you're playing because you've got, obviously, the days of playing to focus on

and you know that you're going to be playing so you can focus better in practice. And when you know really that you're not playing and you're just going to be carrying drinks and having nets, it can't have been easy. So full credit to all those players. Talk about Anderson getting that milestone and therefore clearing away the complications. I wonder if they will sort of sit down. with him and with Stuart Broad and actually work out a way forward

because it seems to me after clearly after what happened here when Broad was left out the first match if they are going to plan a programme which perhaps both of them can play some sort of part in Australia Broad at Brisbane, Amneson at Adelaide or however it may turn out to be they've all got to understand what's going on haven't they?

Yeah but they also need bowlers who are coming into the side and performing you know Geoffrey Arch is bowled okay this week he didn't get a wicket. You know, Sam Curan last week didn't get many wickets. So I think what England really are desperate for is for these players that come in for their games

to do really, really well. So they can get to that situation. The problem that England have, and it's not really a problem, is that Anderson Broad is still the best two. But are they still the best two in these conditions or are they going to be the best to when England go to Australia?

The last two times we've been to Australia, it's been four and ill five up with those two bowlers. And you have to say that you can't think that another year and a half down the line, Jimmy Aniston near on 40, Stuart Broad will be what, give me about 30, 36 Stuart Broad then. Can you see a 36-year-old and a near-on-40-year-old bowling Australia out with the Cucca Burrubour ball over five test matches in those conditions when they haven't done it the previous two times? You've got to be realistic. I don't think that's going to happen.

So, yeah, the England management have to be clever in the way that they manage, but they also need these younger players that get the opportunities to step up to the mark and almost push them out. the team eventually. That's what the selectors will be hoping for. The likes of Archer, Ollie Robinson, Overton Brothers, the younger players that do get chances, I'm sure they will get chances over the next year. They want them to do really well to push the senior

players out of the side, but at the minute those senior players are doing so well it's very difficult to get rid of them. Yeah. I was a bit surprised with the way that they used Archer again today. I think he's a better bowler than if they throw the ball out and just running in bowling bouncer. And again, I've talked

talked about them planning your way forward with Broaden Anderson. Seems to me they've really got to work out how they're going to use Joffra Archer. Yeah, and Jason Gillespie was on Tufus and Vaughn last night, and he has Joffra Archer as a bowler that bowls top of Ostum, skillful and got a short shark bouncer every now and again. And I think that's the kind of bowler that England have to try and make him into. I think he's a bowler that probably needs a little bit more skill, a bit more movement laterally.

If they can find him a little bit of Jimmy Anderson's wobble seam or swing, particularly away from the right-hand batsman I think that will help him but you know I don't see many I mean I remember Freddie Flint off years and years ago when he first started he was asked to do that role you know bowl bouncer ball wide of off stump you know bowlers that can bowl 90 miles an hour

you've got to be in the stumps you know bring every dismissal into play and you know I think Geoffrey can bowl a bit fuller but I think he's just bowling to the guidelines at the team at the minute what's important and what he delivered this week was his paces he did ball at 90 miles and now and I thought he was very unlucky not to get two or three weeks Yeah, indeed. I think Mike Hatherton's finished. He's finished his round of interviews. Extended. I was going to write a thousand words after all that. Oh poor old Michael. Anyway, he's finished with Joe Root, who's now coming over here. He's carrying the series trophy with him in his left hand. And I'm not going to obviously give him the chance to tell me all about his latest test wicket. We're going to gloss over that. And well done. Congratulations. That's what you came out to get.

Absolutely, yeah, very pleased to be stood here at the end of this summer with both Series 1. I think it's been a fantastic effort from our whole squad and really proud of how we've gone about things. Yeah, and I mean, it's such a shame to have a game like this, but Zach Crawley, I mean, what have you got to say about that innings? It was wonderful. It was marvellous in his, won't it? It's fabulous. I think it just showed great maturity for such a young guy to play in that manner, to read the situations and the passages of play. coming out of his crease at certain times to counter the skill of a bass

the way he played the spinners and manipulated the field on different occasions I think showed great maturity as I said and I think there was a lot more to see from him moving forward even outscored Josh Butler

I've extraordinary really he hits the ball so hard doesn't he makes use of that those long leave as he has and he's quite an imposing player once he gets in so great presence at the crease and hopefully he can kick on from this now

so you've got two 22 year old very promising young batswin on your side now we've got a lot of very promising young batsmen in our squad it's a very exciting time at the minute I think you look at you know talk about the just the batting there but young bowlers as well coming through with the experience in class with the senior bowlers as well

it's a nice plan to have and to perform as we have done and in these conditions in this summer it's been really pleasing. Go on then, Jimmy. Wow. Did you have time to think

as the ball was coming to you to take the catch? Yes, I was panicking, yeah. I didn't want to be the next one to drop one. So, yeah, I was just really pleased it went in, stayed in. And I was so excited that I caught it that I threw the ball away

and then realized we needed to get it back quickly so he could say thank you for everyone. To all the crowd. I mean, it's a shame, obviously, that happened like that but it doesn't take away anything of the achievement of getting 600 wickets

No it doesn't and you know there's so many of the memorable moments within those 600 wickets I think we all know it's not just celebrating that one dismissal today

it's everything else that's come before that as well and as I mentioned earlier he's so much more than what you see on the field you know he offers a huge amount to the young bowlers to the rest of the squad

and adds masses amount out to the dressing room so it's credit to the country credit to this squad of players and we're we couldn't be more proud and privileged to be playing alongside England's greatest ever seen him

yeah in terms of planning going forward in Australia and so on is it actually a good thing that he's got that now and so the complications any some sort of something taken away and you can all including him plan how you do go forward

I don't think that would make any difference at all to be honest we know what we need what our plan is and how we're going to try and get there and you know we've got to factor that in with winning right now as well and feel like we've managed that pretty well throughout this summer and we'll

do exactly the same whenever we get the next chance to play yeah just last he talked about the pressure of of just not getting away at all and having just opened the curtains and there's the cricket ground and so on how has it been now you're going to go home to see your family and so I bet you're very excited

about that, but, you know, could you do it again? Is this the way that, you know, if it has to happen again, you'd do it again? I think if we had to do it again, you know, we'd be fine. We'd be able to cope with it. It's obviously not a preferred choice, but we all love playing test cricket. We love the sport, and we know how important it is to be out there performing and playing. So I'm sure if it is that it has to be like this moving forward, we find a way to manage through that.

But I'm sure if you gave the option, we'd be. we'd like to be playing in front of a packed house and, you know, things almost back to a little bit more normality, but that's completely out of our control. We've just got to make sure that we're ready to go and doing everything we can to win as many games as possible. Have a good trip home and enjoy your break, Joe. Thank you.

Thank you, good to see. Right, there we are. That's, I think, tidied his things up down here. Thanks to Danny Rubin, as always, for ushering people around. She always does so calmly and so professionally. So that's us done. Thank you for listening. Of course, to all of us during this test series.

Lots of one-day cricket to come. And, of course, Dan Norcross will be part of that team as well. Dan, back to you. Thank you very much, Haggers. Thank you very much indeed. Well, some great interviews there, I thought. And I think we can be fairly sure that Jimmy Anderson is not going to hang up his boots any time soon. I've got Andy Zaltzman still with me.

You've been crunching the numbers all summer, and there have been some really enormous ones. We even had a millionth run today, which I think was your favourite big number. What have you got for this on, Jimmy Anderson? Just the charting the improvement through his career. His first 200 wickets, average 31, economy rate 3.3. His second 200 wickets, average 27, economy rate 2.8. And his third lot of 200 wickets, average 21, economy rate 2.4. So it's been a steady improvement through his career,

and particularly outstanding in the last few years. His peak 50 matches, 217 wickets. an average under 21 and the list of bowlers who've averaged under 21 over a 50 match sequences, pretty much a hoot of the greatest bowlers of certainly the modern era

when more test cricket has been played. Malcolm Marshall, Richard Hadley, Wacker and Wazzy Murielie McGraw, Sean Pollock and Alan Donald of South Africa, Kirtley Ambrose, Freddie Truman, Imran Khan and Joel Garner. So Anderson is in that list. That shows how Anderson, at his peak, it was up there

with the best of all time. Stuart Broad, past 500 in the summer had an outstanding summer. 29 wickets average 13.4. That's the second best average in a home summer by an England bowler who's taken at least 20 wickets in the last 50 years. And just quickly on Zach Crawley,

his innings of 267, the second highest ever by an England number three and the second highest ever by an England batsman under the age of 24, and he's only 22. So auspicious innings from him. And, you know, we've seen some wonderful, the butler woke's part. partnership at Old Trafford, they scored 84 not out, woke, 75 Butler.

And I enjoyed the stats from that. In the fourth innings, chase batting at 6 and 7, that's the second and third highest scores by England players and a successful fourth innings chase batting six or lower behind Gilbert Jessup in 1902. So that shows how rare that kind of victorious partnership in the middle order is. And what an incredibly important moment it was. I think when I look back on the summer,

certainly the series between England and Pakistan I don't think any of us gave England any hope at all when Olli Pope got that brute of a lifter, didn't he, from Azeep Shah, was it? Or Shahi Jorafridi? It absolutely flew off the pitch and we thought, well, no one's going to survive this. And somehow Butler and Wokes put together that absolutely extraordinary partnership. I'm going to set you on the hunt for one thing.

And I don't know if you'll get it before we go off there because we're going to go off very shortly. But I just wonder what percentage of wickets Anderson and Broad have taken in the entire history of

English cricket Give me a couple of minutes and that game at Old Trafford England took the last six Pakistan wickets in the second innings in 13 over

and the last five in the first innings in 14 overs and this test they took the last five in the first innings in 17 overs and walked off

with six wickets needed with 15 overs to go today which struck me as a little odd given the test championship points we've been

talking about it was a very unsatisfatisfactory It's a very unusual end, but I think what we heard from all those interviews actually was that people have coped with the bubble. They've coped manfully with it, but it does grind you down. It does get too much. And I think ultimately the lure of those points wasn't quite enough to keep them here. And Michael Vaughn pointed out we saw a whole stream of cars come from the far end of the ground.

And I don't blame them because, you know, you heard from Azarelli to say I'm making exactly the same point, as well as it. England players, that they will do this and they'd love to do this for Test cricket and they're delighted to do it. But at the same time, waking up every day from the same hotel, it's pretty tough. This is the TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live. So we've heard some lovely tributes already to James Anderson,

but here's one from his long-term partner in crime, Stuart Broad. It's just a phenomenal achievement. It doesn't feel two minutes ago since he broke, Glenn McGrath's record at the Oval against India with such scenes of taking the final wicket to win a test match and breaking that record. He has got better with age. He's someone who's inspired me throughout my whole career watching him and the last five years particularly since leaving South Africa in 2016.

He's just gone from strength to strength and, you know, he's a role model to follow for every English cricketer and every young cricketer coming through. What makes him, do you think, the first fast bowler? to get to that mark I mean the physical toll the training everything that must have taken place obviously to get there it takes a huge amount of skill

determination you go through tough times and you've got to pull yourself out of them even in the last couple of weeks for gym fortunate at the moment to have played in a brilliant era of English cricket with some brilliant players and been looked after beautifully you know a bit harder to do it in the 80s and 90s I think with selection policies

etc so I think as players now we feel very lucky to have been supported as we have done by the ECB and how that's been lined up but he is the most goalful bowler that all of us have played with you just have to see that even in training the way he controls the ball and he's up for the fight all the time I know that's such an easy thing to say but in test cricket you've got to turn up each day and produce and he gets very competitive in the battle and you need that to win test matches. There was a time

where you wouldn't have thought it possible to get anywhere near this at the time where they took his action apart who used to turn up at lunch breaks

his bowl at cones incessantly you've never thought he'd got to this that seems remarkable now too. Yeah I mean 600 test wickets

is a phenomenal achievement but it doesn't come without a lot of tough periods and a lot of hard work even in the last couple of weeks

he's had some down moments some criticism and training sessions where he's bowled at cones for 40 minutes and then into the net. You know, hard work never stops at this level and he's testament to someone who continuously looks to put that hard work in all the time. And even when he gets to, was he 38 now, that's not slowed down. He knows almost when you get to that age you've got to work harder and he's continued to do that. And even in this test match, it's probably the best he's bowled

in the summer so far. So that's something that is, it's something that's, it's, it's such his character. You know, he's always searching to be better and better. And 600 won't be the stopping of him. Is he a natural bowler? I mean, I'm thinking of all that remedial work that he went through at the start of his career. What do you think? Yeah, I mean, a huge amount of natural skill there, but you can see how much his actions changed even from, you know, the Pakistan World Cup game in 2003. But the young man is when he took the fife against Zimbabwe on his debut with the red in his hair. He looks very different to that. Yeah, you can see how his action has developed but I think everyone does that as a bowler you you learn how

your body best suits it you know he had some back problems early in his career and had to make slight tweaks but I think he's also developed from purely just a swing bowler up until maybe 26 27 years of age into majority wobble seam now that makes his swing bowling even more dangerous when he looks to do that so he's developed a lot of skills through through different areas of his career that have made him consistently perform at the top level. Talking that red hair, do you ever tease me about that when it turns up on the

telly? Well, to be honest, I don't think this red hair was his worst mistake. Remember about a couple of years ago he went sort of platinum light blonde? If you're 21 you can make mistakes but at 36 it's a bit risky, isn't it? Has he developed his own deliveries? Has he sort of designed deliveries

all of his own? Are you after the like shame-worn Zupa? It's a bit harder as a fast bowler. You've got an away-swinger an in-swing or a wobble seamer, haven't you? But he's someone that, I mean, his craft is amazing. You know, you sort of liken him to someone like a Richard Hadley of your era,

or probably just after your ear, Richard, wasn't he? So yeah, you liken to someone who's hugely natural, but everything he tries, he seems to make look easy. You know, it's not easy to be able to just run and bowling away swinger, starting on the stumps to make a batsman play, et cetera. And actually, you can see the amount of times he's bowled, top-order batsman with away-swingers,

just shows how much he does. does move the ball because that means he's starting it on middle and hitting off and he's someone who's consistently developed his craft and it's been amazing to to see in training and watch from mid on for so many years yeah when did you first see in bowl do you remember great question I certainly I played for England before I've met it really because I remember being in the Loughborough changing room before the 2006 Ashes series with it for a training camp and he didn't say to me for the whole day.

It was like I was invisible. I think that was mainly his shyness, to be fair. But I think I first, obviously I'd seen him bowl on TV and stuff, but live, I think it would have been around the World Cup 2007 when we first played together. So, yeah, he's, I mean, again, his action has changed so much since I'm the style of bowling. But, yeah, it probably wasn't as early in our careers as we may think.

Yeah. Did you ever feel your competitor? us at one stage? It's a strange one with bowlers because I suppose you're always competitors, aren't you? Because there's only three or four spots in the team. But also when you're in the team, your job is to get 20 wickets for the team and get off the pitch and win test matches as quickly as possible. So you're hugely on each other's side.

So I suppose in sport, every player is a competitor in the same team at some stage, whether you're opening batting pair or an opening bowling pair. but that doesn't bring any sort of negative side to it. I suppose it spurs each other on at times. But we love that feeling of winning test matches for England and we've been very fortunate to have a few of those. And when the time comes, and it will, I'm afraid, and you do leave all of this.

Are you the sort of friends that will remain very close friends? You know what I mean? Or are you teammates who enjoy each other's company when you're part of a team? Oh, absolutely. We'll remain close friends. Yeah, we've had an amazing connection that's grown through sport, through cricket, which has been awesome. And a lot of my friends I would never have met if it wasn't for cricket, for sure. But yeah, we have a lot of interests and hobbies off the field that we do together. Each year we do like a Rider Cup style, Broad Anderson golfing trip with our friends around the UK. So, yeah, we will always remain friends. We're always going to have a great. interest in watching bowler's bowl and talking about cricket golf and red wine and lastly it might be a very difficult one for you to

answer I should ask him really but of those 600 if I were to say to him which one which one would be the most special the most memorable or the one that yeah he'd be the most satisfied with you've got any idea what the answer might be great question

I think one that brought him amazing joy at that amazing test match at Trent Bridge against Australia in 2013 where I ended up with 10th I think and got Brad Haddon to finish and the scenes of that test match win Jimmy taking the final wicket 15 to win or something was spectacular I think I think he holds that in high regard you know the milestone ones obviously mean a huge amount yeah 400s 500s 600s but those moments that you can take wickets to win a test match are the ones that really ring true and the first

first series of an Asher series at home at Trent Bridge at Groundy Bowls so well in I think would sit very well with him I'll ask him Thank you Stuart The TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live So that was Jimmy Anderson ending one memorable Ashes match

And today marks the year anniversary of England pulling off that miracle win at Headingley against Australia Joe Rootside were chasing 359 off being bowled out for just 67 in their first innings when Stokes walked the crease on the third day Ingram were 141 for three he produced a superb batting display over the two days

but there were still 73 runs adrift when Stokes was joined by the last man Jack Leach incredibly the pair did it with Leach adding a solitary but vital run to Stokes' unbeaten 135 we'll hear from Jack Leach in a moment but first let's enjoy the climactic moments of the match Here's Cummins, bowls and it's shortened

Very well played. Stokes going for the run. Through they come. Ingon can't lose. Well played Jack Leach. He's off the mark. Stokes is on strike. Ingoon need one to win. And in comes Pat Cummins from the far end.

He bowls to Stokes who hammers it for four. It stands there with a back raised. I can't believe. I'll be honest. I'm a bit misty-eyed listening to that. Wow. Just reliving that amazing, amazing day a year ago today. And it's just so special. And who have got on the line? Somewhere just above me, I think, it's Jack. Jack. Hi, Agers. Were you listening? I wasn't No Oh what Packing your bags

aren't you Jack I've been packing my bags Oh Jack Oh gosh We've been on the edge of our seats here Listening to it all again Well I've seen a few things on social media this morning And one of which was the runout chance

And yeah Adam's face in the background Thumbs up power I was feeling in that moment. Wow. In goes lion. Bowles, reverse sweep, field of field. No, no, no.

He set off. Oh! Lions dropped it. Lions dropped it. No. He was run out by yards and Lion has dropped the ball. No. Leach survives.

Well, should we start with that since you mentioned it? What were you doing? Why did you run off? I think now is the right time to apologise to everyone. what I put everyone through but I'm not sure I think obviously I was thinking about our plan which was four or five balls

of each over and I think by that point Stokes was just on a mission to finish it that over and yeah I suddenly found myself very close to Ben at the other end and yeah and I presume you thought that was it did you?

Yeah it was sort of one of those moments everything happens so quickly but so slow at the same time and yeah I just not much time to think and then obviously the ball after that is the LBW shout and then then I realized well I'm

shaking and I'm thinking I've got to face a hole over here of Cummins and thinking yeah obviously still on naught so I'm thinking I've got face six balls here like this is I need to focus on that so and then obviously managed to tuck one off

hit for one and then yeah the rest is history really yeah did you actually see lion drop the ball um well i don't know i can't really remember no i don't think i you're just dashing for you it all happened so quickly i think um i just i felt so sick i remember that um and um yeah but i think it was one of those um you know being out there is like you have to move on very quickly in those kind of situations and just focus on the next thing. So it was very much in the moment, God, that was awful, but we're still out here and let's crack on. So, yeah, I think it kind of, that one moment I've struggled for, every time I see it, I struggle to watch that moment. Even though you're all right, though, you got that.

I know, I know. I guess in the best moments in sport, you realise how much luck is involved as well. So obviously unbelievable to be out there and Stokesy's innings was just incredible. Watching him back now and it's just amazing. So, yeah, very, I guess, great memories and something I'm very proud of

and to be part of with Stokesy. I'm watching. you're just polishing your glasses again yeah i know i did that a lot didn't i i sort of couldn't believe afterwards how much people were focusing on the glasses and now i'm starting to realize it because it's like it was quite a hot day wasn't it i think i was sweating a lot um yeah they were steaming up nicely so um needed to keep them clean jack forney here do you understand that when you're in a situation like that you know the now the next player and i'm watching we all get very nervous and there was 20-odd thousand in the crowd probably millions watching and to see a

batsman that we desperately need to get off strike cleaning his lenses every other ball it doesn't send the greatest of confidence to us all watching i know it looks so stupid but i i think yeah i i um well the crowd that day i do remember and kind of i guess what's happened this summer you kind of really missed that having the crowd there but especially on moments like these like you realize what a big part the crowd play and yeah it was just incredible to hear the noise when I duck under one or I got on back it was just insane and very surreal but yeah just incredible and loved every minute that's over involving the runout was it all happened in there i mean that one

yeah when i said six or out i mean i have to say i thought ben was going to be caught on the boundary they didn't get hold of it we there was that there was the runout and then the lbw as well i mean what an over yeah i know i know and um i guess it's like you know when you first go out there was 70 or you think you know there's nothing to lose here um you know it's the James gone in everyone's eyes and, you know, I just try and stay there with Stokesy. But I kind of, very early on when I was out there, I kind of sensed this belief from Stokesy and how we, a very clear plan of how we were going to go about it. And the crowd were very, I think they just wanted the partnership to go on for as long as possible,

but probably still not expecting us to get over the line. and then when it gets down to sort of 20, then, you know, is suddenly more, you know, more likely. And I guess as when you're in that moment, you suddenly you've been doing everything in the moment, just fall at a time. And then suddenly you feel like you want it all to just be over and get across the line. And sometimes I guess that's why those sort of things happen towards the end. and it was all action-packed at the end and luckily we did manage to get over the line I remember seeing like the stewards coming out

ready for the finish and we still needed six or something and I was like oh like they think we've done it and then I was thinking no no you've got to concentrate like this isn't done yet we need to stay in the moment and like everyone else thinks we've won but we need to just be like

carrying on concentrating how we are So those kind of things I remember vividly and, yeah, great day. You're down in the non-strikers then for that huge LBW shout. You're a spinner yourself. I put you in the umpire's shoes. Are you giving it out? No, like literally I thought it was going down leg straight away. And I said to Stokesley, when they were going down, like, lions on the floor.

Everyone's going mental. You know, all the Aussies are going mental. and I go down Stoke and I'm like that was going down leg wasn't it and he was like yeah yeah definitely

and I still think that that DRS has been taken off the back pad rather than I think it clips the front pad and then goes on to the back pad but maybe I'm biased

I don't know but that's my opinion well it's fine there was no reviews so you're absolutely yeah and also I sort of look back at that moment

where I obviously didn't get any say I tickle that well you never know what happens but say I get a bit about on that and they don't review that then obviously it was I knew with that particular one off Cummins I think it was that I wasn't going to be out but they reviewed it and kind of showed how panic the Aussies were and yeah it was it was good to be out there for that could you could you feel I mean what were the Australians what were they like I mean

were they aggressive hostile nasty sledging or or or actually Actually, were they losing it a bit? Yeah, I think it was sort of, I guess, at 70 to win nine down. They're kind of quite chill because they think they've won. So there wasn't much chat then. And then I think very quickly, Stokesy got the target down quite quickly and suddenly they're sort of panicking. And, you know, everyone was on the boundary for Stokesy.

obviously when I was on strike I don't remember hearing much they might have been abusing me a lot but I just was so in the zone that I didn't really oh I'm just watching Stokes he can't watch me face the ball it's embarrassing

I know he was looking down and I remember talking to him about this he's actually not looking at you back he can't bring himself to watch I remember seeing it as coming starts his run up I remember going oh what he's not looking

and then I go no no no focus you've got to watch the ball here focus but yeah so no it's understandable and I think Stokes has put so much into that innings you look at his whole innings

and obviously the day before there's two or 50 balls and you know the concentration you know someone else might have lost patience and got out but then and I remember him coming off that evening and I think David Warner had been giving him a few words and he said I'm not coming off that pitch

until I've won the game and then he did it and yeah I think you know the next morning he gets hit on the head like quite a big blow and you know how that would affect other people would probably be bigger than how it affected Stokesy so the innings had absolutely everything obviously that last part is amazing as well but it's just insane what he can do

and I guess the skill but also the mental strength that he showed throughout the innings did you talk much I mean you obviously between overs you've all wandered down mid-pitch and you stood together but did you actually say very much no I mean no not really and I think

once we had that plan sorted. I mean, I don't, again, I don't really remember much of the chat. I think it was just keep sort of, keep going. And I remember when Stozy got to 100, I, like, I didn't even realize. And then I realized that the crowd were, like, cheering even more than they were for other boundaries. And then I saw that he got to 100, and I started walking back down to, like, because I'd only punched gloves with him. And then I started to, I started to, walking back down because I was like, oh, I'm going to look such an idiot if I don't congratulate him. And then Stokesy just like ushered me, like gave me the hand and ushered me away and said,

no, no, no, that. He didn't want to sort of celebrate it. And I think, well, that's just typical Stokes is he just had the, you know, the figure that we needed in mind. And the hundred wasn't important. And yeah, I guess it was kind of, you know, Stokesy played some unbelievable shots and I felt like if I was I felt like inside I was a cricket fan I was going berserk and like how have you done that that reverse sweep off line you know you want to go mental and be like oh my God what a shot but like actually I was just like next ball like because you know he just whatever happened on the ball before it didn't affect what was going to happen the next ball so i felt like just trying to keep keep each other calm was probably

the main thing when everyone else around you was going absolutely berserk um it's probably was probably the the thing that we tried to focus on talk talk me through the winning moment because yeah again i mean ben smashed that one for four yeah and then stood there and it looked a bit so you didn't you didn't quite know what to do yeah i know i know i No, again, I look so stupid, but I, like, run down to him, and I, like, try and, like, jump into him, and then I forget we've both got helmets on, so he, like, just clash grills, and, yeah, I just sort of didn't know what to do. I just couldn't believe, I guess I just couldn't believe what had happened, and, yeah, I think we're very, well, Stokesy was exhausted, and, um, um,

I was pretty knackard as well, to be honest. Yes. Yeah, it was just nice to get over. It was probably more relief, to be honest, after what had happened, probably the over before. It was just relief to get over the line and obviously for the ashes to still be alive. How long did it take you to come down again?

I remember I didn't really sleep very well. I remember waking up real early, still with that adrenaline going, oh, no, just see the run out. God. Which one are you watching? This is the runout, is it? Yeah, it's on the screen.

How, what I do? I would have made it. You're up, off you go. You almost go all the way down. And Lance dropped it. Lance dropped the ball. There you are. You're in.

You're okay. But, yeah, I think. Everyone's reaction. Everyone's reaction is looking at it. They're amazing. Yeah, it's just awful, isn't it? You've also done well, Jack, to not slip over because you were running on the pitch next to the 22 yards,

which was very grassy. And at one stage, it looked like you've gone over. Yeah, yeah. See, that's going down leg. It does look like it, actually. There's just parts of the day. I'm just trying to get around about 10 Aussie players who are all fuming and down some.

stokes. Polishing a glasses again by the way. Yeah, yeah. I'm ready for this. Oh, Jack.

Jack, we could carry on all day. It's just one of those days. Jack, can I ask you? PC Air Wars last year, you bought a very nice painting. It was a painting

of the celebrations, if I remember rightly. Where is that hanging now? That's in my study on the wall, yeah. So it's, yeah, it means a lot to me

that actually is sort of like, I guess it sums up the moment very well. And I guess obviously with it, you know, the money went towards PCA cricketers' trust. And, you know, I guess, you know, a great charity that helps a lot of cricketers. And you never know when it's going to come and could help you. So I think it's a very good charity and something that I sort of, means a lot to me to have that photo of, sorry, that picture of Ben. So, yeah.

Do you take everyone that comes to your house? You just take them to the study and go, there you go, look at that. I'm about to jump on him there. That's what I say, yeah. So I would always be able to say I was at the other end of that. But it was so much more than that, Jack, wasn't it? I mean, it's easy to say, oh, yeah, you know, Jack Leap's one knot out. But you played such a strong role.

You know, did you, I know you've got runs against Ireland and so on, but did you surprise yourself, actually, with the way that you batted? Yeah, I think the most, like, I've never experienced being that focused on the cricket field, like in terms of just being completely in the moment. And that was a nice feeling to have, and it probably taught me a lot, actually. And I think having that island innings beforehand definitely helped me. going into that just having that time at the crease

but yeah I think yeah if people asked me would you what was your favourite innings the 92 or the one and I always say

you know the one is the most special just to experience that crowd and and Stokesy's innings just amazing so yeah well I mean you

you did play such a strong part of that but also do you feel how lucky you were lucky you were to be actually part of that part of that incredible incredible day definitely

definitely do and I guess like when you speak to people about what it meant to them and where they were watching it and that's where you kind of realize it's it was more than just you know me and Ben in the middle

it was like everyone was behind us and that was really special and it's nice to see be playing some cricket actually I know it's been frustrated for you we're about to see you I think so you can talk us through this I think we're about to see you score your one

and then we'll have the winning the winning blow so just hang on I know people are listening and they can't see it but they have just heard it on the radio the whole thing so they know what's coming that field all around you

this one the big over, wasn't it? Because you were on strike at the very start of it. He bowled to bounce at a start with us, that reviewed one. And then, there you go. A little nudge off the hip.

Look at that. Yeah. No fine legs. I could just pull it for four. I think you'd have settled. You'd have settled for the one. So you got to the other end. You got to the other end.

And at this point, at this point, you must know it's done. It's tied anyway. Yeah, like, I feel, like there's no way Stokes he's blocking three balls here with everyone up. He's going to whack this

wherever it is and luckily Cummings Bowles a short, wide one and he absolutely crunches it. And yeah, just sort of nice to be at the other end sort of having done what I think I've sort of

my bit is over and I can just run and jump on him when he hits the winning runs but yeah, it's I just couldn't believe there's so many like there's a short leg there's two guys around the corner and somehow managed to get it into a little gap

where we can get a squeeze a one we're about to see it we've got Cummins he's coming he's coming in now you're standing at the non-striker's ends you're watching him in he goes bowls bang is that I mean just and he's roaring

and you're giving him a hug he's really bellowing isn't he? Yeah yeah it's oh there's the hug oh that's rather nice jack great big squeezy hug I go a little one and then I like I need to hug him again

straight back in to be fair Jack Pat Cummins could a man caddy you know you were backing up a bit too far what you're about a yard out when he bowed that you know as Jack was really nice and I did make this point because we were watching it

the Australians their reaction coming up and shaking your hands and giving you hugs and so on that that was quite something yeah definitely i think um they knew what um you know a special game it had been and um and what styles good stoic seasonings have been to be fair um i think you know when those things when you're on the wrong side of those things you do appreciate um what what the other guys have done and and um yeah so i think um you've just given him a kiss I've just seen you've just kissed at Ben Stokes' neck. Oh, dear man.

Warty neck, was it? Yeah. Jack, I know it's been a really frustrating summer for you. You know, nothing can make up for that, but I just hope that reliving that a year ago today has brought a smile to your face. It certainly has to all of us. Thank you, I guess.

Yeah, no, it's very special to sort of relive it and kind of remember remember it. So yeah, I know I'm looking forward to hopefully playing some cricket soon and yeah. You bet. Well, we'll catch up soon, Jack. Thanks so much for joining us. Cheers, guys.

You're listening to the TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live. That's a great memories there. You can watch highlights of the GES Bowl on today at the test on the eye player or the cricket section of the BBC Sport website and app. And on the website, you can also read a special feature

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