Test Match Special - England name their 12 for first Ashes Test

Episode Date: November 19, 2025

Eleanor Oldroyd is out and about in Perth for reaction to England naming their twelve-man squad for the first Ashes Test. Former England captain Michael Vaughan has his say on where the first Test could be won, England fast bowler Gus Atkinson looks ahead to the first match of the series, and Chief Cricket Reporter Stephan Shemilt and TMS commentator Simon Mann dissect the twelve in England's squad. Plus, how could Australia line up after a hint from Australia bowler Mitchell Starc said he would bat at eight.

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. Bring more gear, carry more passengers, face greater challenges. Welcome to the world of Defender, with seating up to eight, ample cargo space and legendary off-road capability. It's built to make the most of every adventure. Learn more at landrover.ca. podcast with me, Eleanor Aldroyd in Perth. Coming up, we'll find out how the England team is looking just two days ahead of that first Ashes test at the Perth Stadium. We'll hear from bowler Gus Atkinson,

and coming up shortly, we'll get the verdict of Michael Vaughn on how the series, and particularly this first test, is going to go. TMS at the Ashes. Well, here we are in downtown Perth, days out before the test match having a cup of coffee with michael vaughan and the ashes just two days to go the west australian newspaper michael is uh is having it say yet again the noise continues yeah it's becoming my favorite paper i have to say um for one reason it's given a cricket around six or seven pages every day of which most of it is that if we go to the

front page of today's it's uh it's back with uh ben joe and johnny why you're so obsessed with me that it's still going on about the stumping at lords and then there's a couple of pages at six and seven where they're saying that england can't let it go they can't get rid of the past and they keep talking about the stumping well they've actually not it's from a documentary that england did about two years ago but this paper keeps uh kind of bringing it up it's just i've been here for so many ashes series and we probably say it every time but this seems to be more hyped than many of that have ever known. And it's down to papers like this, which is bringing a little bit of pantomime and the amount of England supporters that are arriving here in Perth, the expectation of how England are going to play. This Australian side with that Cummings and Hazelwood, what's the formation going to be? England are going to hit them with a load of pace, so we're excited about that. That first hour is always special in any series, but particularly in Ashes series. But I think the first hour in Perth on Friday, it's going to be electric.

aching basball as they're talking about again they love that don't they the belly aching basballers and actually you know you're talking about the stumping from lords in 2023 they asked Alex Carey and Cameron Green about it the local newspaper and they said we've forgotten all about it why are you asking us about it as well so I think everyone wants to move on from that but you're right you know it is a different series it's a different team it's a different England in every sense from the last two teams that came over here oh yeah I mean you know England are prepared for for this moment you know the way that they've selected players.

You look at some like Zach Crawley. You know, he averages 30 in test match cricket with five tests, 100, 60 games. But they've picked him for this, for these conditions where they feel that the start-off play that he produces, driving on the up, getting on top of good fast bowlers,

which Australia will have. Even without Cummings and Hazelwood this week, they'll still have a quality attack and they feel that, you know, a Zach Crawley-style batter is exactly what you require here in Australia. So time will tell. You know, England, you know,

They've prepared the way that England prepare. They like to kind of arrive in places, having not played a huge amount of cricket, and they like this best went fresh, mindset, mentality. You know, I've watched them train over the last couple of days, and they look a focus team, they look fit. And that's the first thing you look at. The lights of Joffaraj yesterday was at the Perth Stadium.

He was just doing lemps, running across the ground. He had his headphones on. I know we're two or three days away, but you can just see a focus from both teams. You look at the way the Australians, practice and there's a real focus about both sides and, you know, how both teams start is obviously going to be very, very important, but particularly England. You know, I look at Australia and I saw them last year when they went one-nill down to India here and they came

back. I think England have to win in Perth. You know, you look at 86, 87, when they won here, they got off to a good start. 2010-11, got off to a decent start. They drew in Brisbane. I think it'd be very, very difficult for this England side to come back from going Wendell down here. So I'm not saying it's all on this week but England need to get off to a good start. Well it's a generational opportunity isn't it really when you think about you know Stark and Hazelwood and

Cummins and Lyon that try that quartet, the Triumvirate of Paceman and no Cummins no Hazelwood. There's no greater opportunity really for it. Yeah and with that I think brings a little bit more pressure actually because you know the likes of me and yourself

and everyone around the BBC crew we're all excited because I think go on you know grab this chance. You know, there's no Captain Pat who, you know, let's be honest, Pat doesn't know how to lose. You know, he's got that incredible mentality and he's been incredible for Australia that when they've needed a wicket,

it's generally Pat Cummings that gets them that wicket. Well, there's no Cummings this week. And Hayeswood over the course the last couple of months, you know, in whiteball cricket has been Australia's standout bowling. He's not with the Aussies this week. So there's a big opportunity for England, but it doesn't mean you win because two players aren't playing. You know, Scott Bowling's got

a record here that is up there with the great. It's 49 wickets at 12 apiece. Mitchell Stark is, you know, one of these modern generations great fast bowlers who creates a great, obviously, angle from left arm over, and then he comes left arm around. He'll bowl quickly. He found a nice rhythm last week for New South Wales. Brendan Doggett is a, you know, he's the starring state cricket and has been for a couple of years, so he knows how to bowl in these conditions. And obviously, Nathan Lyon, an offspina with over 500 test match wickets, and then you've got Cameron Green or Beau Webster. So, and he's been, and They've got enough Australia to cause a little bit of damage with the England set up.

But, you know, let's not make any kind of look at it in any other way than saying that England have a great chance. But they've got to play great discipline cricket and they have to win the moments. There'll be moments in the test match, I'm sure, for both sides to try and get on top. When that moment comes for England, the first opportunity, they have to grab it. You talked about Pat Kamins not knowing how to lose. And Ben Stokes is a man on a mission. this series, isn't he? Yeah, I mean, I look at Ben and particularly the way that he looks.

And what I like about him so far, he looks calm. And sometimes when, you know, you look at a series like this and you look at someone like Ben Stokes and this England team, I just hope they don't want it too much. And sometimes in life, when you want something so desperately, so much, it goes further and further away from you. They've just got to naturally let it happen by just playing session by session, being really disciplined at the right time, being aggressive,

when they can. I look at both sides and both squads, and Ben Stokes, as he looks now, all right, the series is not started yet, so we have to see if he arrives in form. But if he finds form, he's the best cricketer in the world. There's no doubt about that.

Pat Cummings is right up there with tremendous as a captain, as a bowler, with the lights of Jasper, Brum, you put Cummings in that kind of bracket. But in terms of pound for pound, the best cricketer in the world When he plays well, that's Ben Stokes and he's captain in England. So it's so important that he stays fit.

It's so important that he finds form. It's so important that he utilises his bowling well. And well means the kind of spells that we've seen him in the last couple of years when suddenly he gets on a roll and he bowls a 10 over spell or 12. That's not going to help England win a five-match series. It might help England win one game. But he's got to be so important. He's got to be very careful to manage his body to make sure that by Melbourne's

Sydney, he's still going. So if it is how he has to bowl, you know, a few overs less. And England looked like they're going to hit Australia with all these paces. So he should have enough bowling to kind of turn to rather than bowl himself all the time. But it's how he manages his own body and his own mindset, which is going to be crucial for England. Is pure pace the way to go at this ground at the Perth Stadium? What, it's all England's got. They've arrived there with a barrage.

I mean, it's a cartel of pace bowling. I don't think we've ever arrived in Australia with this amount of pace the one area that I would be a little bit concerned about is that in the last three or four years here in Australia, top of off stump has been the way to go. You know, a bowling style,

a bowler, Josh Hazerwood, Jai Richardson has bowled a few nice spells here, pitch up bowlers that swing it and nip it around. I'm looking at the England attacks then, who's that? And that looks like it's going to have to be Ben Stokes. Gus Atkinson bowls into the pitch You can get it up there, but he's more into that natural, decent length. And then Joffre will hit the pitch.

And then there's Mark Woodall just running for four rovers and bowlers as quick as he possibly can. Josh Tongs, I hit the pitch bowler. Matthew Potts, I guess, is a pitch-up bowler, but I don't think he's in the consideration this week. And that's the only concern that I'd have for this attack, that pace is great, but you've got to still bowl in the right areas. And in Australia, if you get it slightly wrong with pace on, the ball can fly to all parts. and that's going to be the challenge for Ben and the team to make sure, yes, ball quickly, but still remember that here in Australia

with this Cuckaburaboo, ball now that has a more prominent scene, top of off-stumps worked over the last few years, so don't forget that. Make sure that you do the basics right. The Perth Stadium, you were here for the India game last year when 17 wickets fell on the first day. Could we see a repeat of that? Yeah, and again, I look at the way that England play the cricket.

Every game here in Perth has been won by the team. batting first. Yeah, England with, you know, this team that they're going to look like playing, you'd think that they might bowl first. England liked to chase. You know, I always go back to Ben and the toss of the coin at Edgebast against India, and he won the toss. And I think it was one of his first. He said, oh, why are you bowling? We like to chase. It's like a one-day game. We like to chase. That's what England do. That's what they did against India at Henley in the summer when they chased down that big target. So it wouldn't surprise me of England bowl, but I'm a bit old-school here. get the runs on the board and pitchers here in Perth can crack.

They can start to do it a little bit quicker on days two and three. Spin might come into the equation. Nathan Lyon, who is a bowler. I don't think he's bowling as well as he has in the past, but he's got a tremendous record here in Perth, 29 wickets at 21 apiece. So all the talk of pace from England and all the talk of pace of what Australia are going to throw in them,

don't forget Nathan Lyon because he's a wonderful bowler. I'm getting a little hints of optimism, and it's a very rare thing among England cricket fans and bearing in my England haven't won a test match in this country for 15 years getting on for. How optimistic are you? Are you prepared like Mark Ramprakash did the other day to say England win this easily if Ben Stokes plays all five test matches? I mean that's quite a big if, isn't it?

It won't be easy. If you actually look at the summer against India, the two victories against India at Hedley and at Lords, they chased down 370 at Headingley so that's not an easy win but they did it well the Lord's test victory against India it was the game where Benbolded that mammoth spell and then Joff produced some magic to get rid of Rishapant

but it wasn't easy English cricket and England scenes we don't do easy but we do entertaining and if England are going to win down here I would say the 40,000 Brits that have arrived they're in for a ride I also think the Australian public are going to love watching England play I think there'll be a few Australians over the course of the next seven weeks

that I'm not saying they'll fall in love with England but I think they will fall in love with a few of our players with the way that they go about their business. Harry Brooke, for instance. I think the Aussies will look at Harry and think he's a bit mad at times but they'll admire the way that he'll go about his business and I think they've got such admiration for the captain and obviously for Joe Root at number four.

I've not met one Australian, I've been out here for two and a half weeks and I come out here every single winter. there's not one Australian that doesn't want Joe Roo to get 100 and there's not one Australian wants to see Matthew Hayden running around the MCG with his crackers out so it's very important that that does happen and if that happens on an irregular basis two or three times the glue at number four

could be the reason why you can have a huge amount of success but they have a great chance but at this stage it's just a chance and there's a lot of hard work to go between now and then this England side haven't won a five-match series since 2017 seen. There's a reason why that's happened because over five matches, it takes a huge amount of mental toil. It takes a huge amount of physical activity on your body and you have to have the rubber of the green at the right time. At the minute, I would say the rubber of the green looks

like it's going with England. When you look at Cummings out, Hayeswood out, it's even quite mild in Perth, dare I say. There's a few clouds arrived and I don't think it's going to be a roaster at the weekend. So that doesn't mean you win. It doesn't mean you win that you've had a little bit of fortune so far because it's a long series but there's just one or two things that I look at and 2010-11 was the time that England won here and they won well and they arrived here with a top seven that was consistently playing together on a regular basis this top seven has played together for a period of time now they've played great at times they've been disappointed at times but over the course of the last two years they know their roles they know what they're about and it's a great

opportunity for the side. I generally I'm excited because I look at the tools required to win down here and they have them. They've just going to make the most of them. Are you saying England are winning this? I think if Ben Stoke stays fit, I'm not going to say what Ram said that they'll win easy. I think it's going to be too all. I just look at England and think can they win three test matches out of five they can but they'll have to play incredibly well. I can't imagine that Australia aren't going to win at least one, if not two. It's just the way that Australia play the cricket and they win games of cricket. And it wouldn't surprise me if, you know, let's see what happens in the day and night game.

It could be a quick game. There could be raining around. That might actually be a draw. And Sydney could be a draw as well. So one of those two venues I'm saying it's going to be the draw. If England win here and win well and they can challenge Australia and that top three in terms of all they need to rotate or Usman Quad's position in the side is going to become vulnerable. and you've got weather orders just starting out. If they can challenge that top three early here in Perth,

I think England can get off to a great start. If they do that, who knows what may happen. It might be that we go back to 2010 and 11, and the Australian side have just gone over the hill and they start to get dismantled and we see two or three new players by the end of it. That's the dream for England. By Melbourne, Sydney, two or three names are playing for Australia

that we ain't got a clue about. If that happens, England have won. Michael, fingers crossed, eh? Absolutely, yeah. Win the toss, bat, please. The TMS podcast on BBC Sounds. The Dakar Rally is the ultimate off-road challenge. Perfect for the ultimate defender.

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Well, you can watch coverage of the Ashes on the BBC Sport app and website. We'll have video clips of all the big moments and on IPlayer Alex Hartley will bring you the daily Ashes debrief from the Perth Stadium alongside our TMS commentary team out here in Australia. And I'm now with the BBC's chief cricket reporter Stefan Schemelt and TMS commentator Simon Mann. Hello, both. Hello, hello. And the news of the day is that England have named their 12 for the first Ashes test and there is the tantalising prospect of England's fastest men all turning out together,

particularly Joffra Archer and Mark Wood. I'll read you the 12th, first of all, Ben Stokes the captain, then Archer, Atkinson, Chowib Bashir, Brooke, Kass, Crawley, Duckett, Pope, Root, Jamie Smith, the wicket-keeper and Mark Wood. So, Stefan, we have been having that tingly feeling, haven't we coming into this test match and the days running up to it that the pace and bounce of Perth could be the perfect opportunity for England's placement

and that may well be what happens although not for sure not for definite not for sure England have had this plan for I think for quite a long time to play an all seam attack at this ground because of the pace and bounce of the Perth Stadium

and you know we've had all that chat about the pitch the past couple of days the green monster but I think England have just seen something over the past 20 hours that suggests a little bit of dryness in the surface. It was left uncovered yesterday. The greenness of the monster has started to fade

a little bit. So they've put Showy Bashir in the squad just to keep their options open but I still think it will be the five fast bowlers and I think if that is confirmed tomorrow which it could well be. England will settle on in 11 maybe after they've trained in the morning

we might be talking about England's fastest attack in a test match ever certainly in this country and you think of some of the great Ashes series wins here in the past going a long way back actually

because England don't win here very often 7071 Raymond Illingwood's team had Willis and John Snow in the 50s there were Statham and Typhoon Tyson and we're bodyline the most famous Ashes series of all well England are at it again with pace bowling Yeah I'm not going to ask you to remember

then had no Ray Ellingworth series Simon But you can't come back on it, but not from personal experience. You've done a lot, but not that many. In a way, I mean, Bashir's naming today was a kind of mild surprise, wasn't it? Because I think everyone expected England to name 11 when they decided to name their team and with five-paced bowlers in it. They've been talking all along about having Bashir in Australia to exploit pitches that bounce, and this one they think might spin as well.

So in a way, you think, well, kind of, it's a logical choice to play. And that's why he's suddenly into the 12, it seems to me. So they haven't thought a little think about this. But, you know, he's not played much recently because of his finger injury. And, you know, has the project gone a bit awry? But, you know, it's been a long-term project with Bashir. And it's odd to think of him suddenly as being a surprise inclusion in the 12, in a way. So we thought, particularly after the way he bowled at Lila Kill last week,

in the Lions game that maybe even Will Jax had bowled himself ahead of Shouib Bashir and that Jax might be the option for this game because of his batting that if it is going to be a short game and runs are going to be at a premium well back Jack's at number eight and he can bowl a bit of offspin if you need it but you're right Simon in that showy Bashir has been England's frontline spinner for the past 18 months for the reasons that you highlighted is tall he gets bounce and all those sorts of things, and Perth Stadium, the leading wicket-taker, all right, it's a short history at that ground, they've only had five matches, but the leading wicket-taker there is Nathan Leiden.

England are very hierarchical in their selection. They often have a list at whatever department it is, and they go down it. If they wanted a spinner in that squad, and it hadn't been showing Bashir, what would that have said about the whole Bashir project, like you say? So maybe we were wrong to think that it would be Jacks if England did want a spinner, just going on what we know about McCullum and Stokes. To me, Jax is the replacement for Ben Stokes if Ben Stokes were to be injured. So you've got a batter at six who can bowl,

plus you can still play four-paced bowlers. I mean, they don't want to get to that, obviously. But he seems to me that one of the reasons is in the squad has covered potentially for a Ben Stokes injury. You both talked about projects, and we know that there was a project four years ago going into the Gaba, and it was to try and rest

Broad and Anderson for later in the series. We all know what happened there, don't we? So is this a better project? Yeah, I have a little bit of sympathy for what England were trying to do four years ago because if you remember, the schedule was different. The first test was pushed back a little bit. It was COVID-y, test matches were played back-to-back,

whereas here we've got big gaps between test one and two and two and three. So there doesn't need to be that thought about saving pace bowlers for later. But you're right, Ellie, in what they did four years, years ago is they had a plan that could have been cooked up in London or Loughborough or whatever they went to the gabbard and were presented with conditions that surprised them traditional English conditions really when Anderson and Broad would have been ideal they didn't play them there and then England were chasing their tail for the rest of the rest of the tour what they have done here is they've shown a degree of flexibility in that yes five seamers I think has been the plan for a long time it was whispered about in

the home summer but they've seen something today that they've left open the option of playing a spinner of deviating from a long-term plan. Is speed enough though, Simon? Is it going to be about how those fast bowlers bowl, you know, because they can't bowl 94 miles an hour every single over, over potentially five days in the Perth heat? I think one thing about, people say five is too many, but I think there are times in games where you've got your four fast bowlers

and they've almost come to the end of their tether and you want another fast bowler. You'd love to have another fast bowler rather than say a spinner come. on or a part-time bowler. So you've got that option. And you can rest them, you can rotate them. Stephen Finn said to me a while back, he said, I'd hate to play in a five-man pace attack, because I'd have to weigh ages to bowl. But I think there's a sense of relentlessness. Australia are going to feel that sense of relentlessness. And if there is pace and bounce, as the curator today said there would be, said the West Test is pace and bounce. Then, you know, you've got the bowlers potentially to exploit it. I mean, they'll be coming after

Australia. I think England wanted to hit them hard and they've got the options to do that. Can you do that again? The West Test is pace and balance. Good. Thank you for your impression of Islet, the MacDonald, the curator of the Perth Oval. We will talk a little bit more about him in a moment.

It has been a busy day at the stadium, various press conferences, as well as Gus Atkinson speaking to the media, along with Mitchell Stark and the aforementioned curator of the Perth pitch. We'll talk about that and a moment, both first England fast bowler Atkinson, who has been speaking to BBC sports editor Dan Rowan. Gus, good to see you. Thanks for your time.

Just explain to us. I know this is your first Ashes series, but what does this rivalry, this great rivalry, mean to you growing up, how much did it mean to you? Yeah, it means a lot. I mean, growing up, the 2005 Ashes was the main thing for me. And then, you know, ever since, it's been a dream to play an Ashes series. So to get the opportunity is very exciting.

And it could be that you actually bowl, the opening ball of the entire series. How special would that be? Yeah, that would be incredible. I mean, to set the tone of the whole series would be really cool. And I know there's been a few special, you know, moments of first balls in the ashes. So, you know, the chance to add to that would be cool. What do you see your role as in this England pace attack?

Are you the man to provide the control, the consistency, the discipline? I think so. I mean, you know, there's a lot of pace in our attack and I think I'm probably a bit slower than a few of the others. few of the others but yeah I think hold that control and just look to look to take wickets and and keep them batters under pressure and you're one of a number of players in this england squad that haven't experienced an ashes series over here certainly in your case not at all do you think that's a disadvantage because it's all new or actually could it work for england because there's less mental scarring than there may be if you'd all experience those defeats

of the past here yeah I think it could be a an event advantage. You know, I know there's a lot of players who have had some tough times here in Australia. So for us, you know, we're a very relaxed, very positive group. And, you know, no scarring, as you said, it's very exciting. And I think we will see it as a huge opportunity to do something special. And how significant a series do you think this is, Gus, for England? It feels to many, I think it's obviously a huge amount of anticipation back home, as there always is for an actually series. But I think because of the way England play, because of that fantastic series against India. There's more excitement maybe than there has been for some

time. Is that the way you see? I mean, where is this England team on its journey? Does this feel like the sort of culmination of a years-long project? I think so. I mean, I haven't been here since the start of when Baz came in, but from when I've come in, I think the whole, you know, goal has been to get to this Asher series in a good place and, you know, to try and come out here and win. And that's been the goal for three years, Baz has been in, they've been preparing for that ever since. So, yeah, I mean, that's what we're going to look to do, and hopefully we can do that. And England, you know, haven't won a test, as you know, here in Australia since 2011.

Do you feel, does the team feel it has a point to prove, therefore, to the Australian cricket in public? I think so. I mean, I feel like we've always got a point to prove. But, yeah, I don't really know what the Aussie public would think of us, but I'm sure it's probably not great. But, yeah, we're really excited with the opportunity we have to come out here. And there's been a lot made of this five-pronged pace attack that England hoped to feel with the likes of Mark and Joffra, of course, and yourself. How exciting is it potentially to be part of that?

Very exciting. I mean, you hear about these pitches in Australia with pace and bounce, so to come out here is really nice knowing that as a fast bowler, you can make major contributions, so we're all very excited. And how is Mark? I know it looks good, like he's been training this week, but how much for a bonus would it be if England can field him alongside Joffra? Yeah, it'd be great.

I mean, he was bowling lively in the next. net yesterday so hopefully he's all good and can play. In contrast, Australia of course, they've lost their captain Cummings, they've lost Hazelwood as well through injury for this first test. Just how big an opportunity therefore do you think it is this for England given the issues that Australia are encountering? Yeah, it's a huge opportunity. I mean, the world-class bowlers, but we have to respect the bowlers that are playing.

And they're very good bowlers. So yeah, it's a huge opportunity. But also one we can't look at us, you know, the bowlers that are coming in are still world-class bowlers. One of your recent teammates, Stuart Broad said it's the weakest Australia team since 2011, when England last won a series out here. Is that the way you see it? Do you think this is an Australian team that's sort of there for the taking? Or is it the same level of respect? I think, I think, you know, that's, you know, broadly's entitled to his opinion. I don't know too much about the Aussie team from throughout, since 2008.

But no, yeah, they're a world-class team and it's going to be very tough to beat them in their backyard. Over the years, for a long time, England's hopes have floundered here in Perth at the Wacker down the road because of the, this is so unfamiliar, the conditions, the pace, the bounce. Do you think coming here to a new stadium psychologically gives England a sort of a bit more hope, a bit more optimism, a chance to have a fresh start, or do you think, having looked at the wicket, it's going to be just as quick and bouncy as the wacker? I don't know too much about the whacker and stuff, but we have a lot of players who, as we said before, haven't played here. Yeah, I just think it's really exciting. The pitch is, you know, they're quick and bouncy,

but I think our bowling attack is seriously dangerous in these conditions, so it'd be as tough as for their batsmen as it will be for ours, I think. Understood. Rest a luck. Thanks very much, your time. Top man, thank you. Well, Stefan Shermott and Simon Mann are still with me. Simon, what have you made of the vibes building up to this test series?

Because there's always the phony war, isn't there? Day by day it unfolds. I think one of the really interesting things is the war, if you like, or words, has not come from the players at all. Mitchell Stark today was asked to almost condemn England's build-up, the one practice match among themselves. And he said, no, it's what happens these days. It's not like 20 years ago.

We did the same thing last time. You know, you could have pound England and sent out of the Poms have had a terrible build-up. But he didn't say, no, no, no, we did it. We had a practice match among ourselves last time. And, of course, they won the first two test matches. Yesterday, when they had the official launch, you know, there was Jamie Smith there and Josh Tongue and Alex Carey and Cam Green.

I mean, those two, Cam Green and Alex Carey, the two of the nicest lads you could ever wish to meet. You sound like a dad. He's so frustrating. If my daughter brought one of them home Either my daughters brought them home I'd be perfectly happy Is that what this podcast does become?

You were a husband for one of your daughters? They would cut your lawn and do your washing out, wouldn't they? Is that what you need? This is a whole new format for us to pitch, Stelisbury. I'm absolutely lovely blokes. Can we get some of doing post-match interviews to Alex Care Room, Cam Green? You're free for tea, we've gone first.

Jamie Smith and Josh Tyne as well, you know, nice great. There was no snout. darling at all. If you like, all that has come from ex-players and media. That's built it up. That's hyped it up from the players. Like, well, I just thought what are thinking, what is this all about? But on the subject to the phony war, and Smith and Tong speaking yesterday, Smith was brilliant because he was, there were some questions from the Aussie media that we're trying to rile him up, we're trying to get a line. How many rounds of golf you're going to play, mate? Smith, I'm not actually a golfer, but I'm probably none. Are you going to try and stump someone

standing back. If I tried, I'd probably miss I was not be that far away. They were excellent. And Kerry and Green as well, to be fair, there was lots of questions about stumpings and things, and they just moved on, it was great. I mean, Kerry said something, excited. He said he's excited about six times, isn't it? Well, Gus Harkinson was the same

in talking to Dan Rowan. You can feel that from the players actually. They don't want to get into a slanging match. They know each other away from here. They just want to play cricket. They're also staying in the same hotelers. They are. They're bumping each other into each other in the lips. It's salty friendly, isn't it? What would then had an unreal worth have made of it all.

So, I mean, you reckon that Mitchell Stark may have, maybe inadvertently revealed the Australian team in his press conference. Yeah, just doing a bit of detective work because he said, I'll be batting at eight. I thought, hold on a second, just try and piece it all together. That means that Bo Webster's not going to play. There was some hint that he might have batted at eight. And that Nisa won't be batting at eight because Nisa is definitely a better bat than

Stark. Yeah, that's the other thing. So just do detective work. It seems as though Weatherald and Cuagio will open. Weatherall will make his stage a little bit of not a makeshift open, a labasheen at 3, Smith, head, and then green at 6. So the fact that green can bowl, that's the key thing. He was bowling the nets today, but yesterday, he said he's pretty confident.

The fact that he can bowl his overs, his share of overs, means that they, well, they don't have to play Webster, and they've still got all those options. In Glenn McGrath's column on the BBC Sport website, he talks about the perception of Australian selection, chaos, uncertainty, whatever you want to call it. But he says, well, actually, if any team lost their captain and another fast bowler, that would be difficult.

And the way that Australia are responding to that is bringing in two other fast bowlers, what we think will be Scott Bolan and Brendan Doggett. He said the only decision that Australia have had to make is who opens. And they've had to make that decision a lot. since David Warner retired at the beginning of 2024. I think Cowardier has had five different partners in 15 tests. Weatherald will become his sixth and 16. But once that decision is made, who opens?

The rest falls into place. Because if Labershane opened, that opened up the prospect of Green and Webster in the same team. But Australia have gone back to a specialist opener. They've messed around with Labershane, Smith, McSweeney, all these different options. This time, it's Weatherald, a specialist. opener, it's unlucky on Bo Webster who's done nothing wrong, but the line up for Australia is much more

what we're, that is their usual formation. I mean, we haven't had it confirmed yet, but actually they must want to have some kind of certainty because there's been so much, as you say, uncertainty for the last weeks and months, and basically since David Warner retired. Yeah, and eventually it had to make a decision, didn't

it? It did hinge on whether green was fit enough to bowl. He's been bowling a little bit in Sheffield Shield, and he's been bowling the nets here, and it looks as though that's what they're going to go with green at six, rather than green at three, and labashane opening. Not confirmed, but also just imagine the last little bit of Ash's Houserie, shall we call it, Ben Stokes out there in the middle in his blazer,

and then Pat Cummins comes down the stairs, I'm ready to go. Well, Mitchell Starr said they... He wants to play it. He feels like he can play now. Yeah, and Mitchell Stark could... Not Star but Cummings, but not quite the oldest man in the squad. I think Nathan Lyons are older than him. Coager. Coager is the old.

Quarge 38, yeah. Wow. So, but saying he was feeling his age a little bit. He's feeling his age a little bit. He did. And that's because you got asked, you know, you are the last one of the big three standing. How did you feel about it? He said, I feel old. Quick word then finally about Isaac McDonald, because that is always that moment, isn't it? When the curator, as what they call the grounds person here came out, you've mentioned, what was it again? Well, West Test is house about.

very much and how green will that pitch be because we've been down there the last few days it's looked very very green indeed how many layers of brass are going to be shaved off did he reveal that he said i haven't decided yet he said it's nine millimeters at the moment if i heard incorrectly he said it's normally between 10 and 8 so i haven't decided whether i'm going to take any more off the thing this is niche stuff it is me yeah this is very niche if you want to get really niche the thing that struck me today we had a press conference on the outfield with the groundsman and how many people

do you reckon with there Simon 50? 50 60. So we've got the groundsman as a centre of attention in this test. Remember what happened before England's previous test match? Yeah, at the Oval. At the Oval, Lee Fortis and Gautum Gambier, the Surrey groundsman

the India coach. Two test matches in a row in different hemispheres where the groundsman has been part of the story. Centre stage. Thank you very much, Stefan. Thank you to Simon as well. That's it for this episode of the TMS podcast, make sure you're subscribed so you never miss an episode during this Ashes series. We will bring you a TMS podcast every single day of the tour and it all gets underway on Friday morning.

Test match special will bring you every ball of the ashes across the next eight weeks and we're on air at 135 a.m. GMT with the weight finally over and the first ball being bowled at 2.20 in the morning. But for now, it's goodbye. Welcome to the brand new podcast series Rugby League top 10 with me Mark Chapman. It's where John Wilkin, Brian Noble and Jamie Peacock will discuss, debate and argue over lists of the best players, games, finals, iconic moments and plenty of other categories that will no doubt leave you screaming at your device. The most entertaining parts of our sport are these, the jeopardy, the moments. He made rugby league look cool.

Yeah, I mean, that's the difficult thing to do, I think. It is really, is. Yeah, no. I think we've all managed to carry that bathroom off. Rugby League top 10. Listen on BBC Sounds.