Test Match Special - England well beaten as Australia get SEVENTH world title

Episode Date: July 5, 2026

Alison Mitchell is alongside 2017 World Cup winner Alex Hartley, former New Zealand wicketkeeper Katey Martin, and Australian commentator Geoff Lemon for reaction to Australia’s seventh world title, beating England in a full-house at Lord’s.Also, hear from England head coach Charlotte Edwards, Australia’s Phoebe Litchfield and Beth Mooney.

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Listen now, wherever you get your BBC podcasts. You're listening to the TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live. And Australia reclaim their crown. T20 World Champions for a seventh time. A dominant win over England on their home patch at Lords. But Australia have owned it. Gardner and Perry embrace in the centre. It is a hefty, hefty win by seven wickets.

And Australia have got their title back. Seven-time winners of the T20 World Cup, even when it had a different name back in the day, they have been the dominant side. They've won seven, everyone else has won three between them, and no other countries won it more than once. It's an extraordinary run of dominance in the shortest format. They didn't win the first tournament in 2009,

but they've hoovered up just about everything since then. lost that final in 2016 against West Indies. They had a rare run where they didn't hold either of the world trophies, the one-day World Cup or the T20 World Cup, for the last nine months or so. But there have been a couple of those streaks since 2009, but not many. Only three times for a few months,

never more than about a year and a half, that they haven't held one of the trophies. They've got this one back now, and they'll be feeling content, more like things are right with the world. Alex England out done, outplayed today. They just couldn't get going with the bat. Maybe didn't read the conditions or the pitch or adapt quickly enough,

and they have been utterly dominated. Yeah, I just don't think they showed enough aggression, to be honest. I think the power play for me is where the game can be won or lost. Dot balls, exactly the same. I know we're only into the 18th over, but 41 dot balls for England, 41 dot balls for Australia, the boundary count, a total, total difference. and unfortunately if you're only hitting 15 boundaries

and your opposition's hitting 22 you're not going to win the game and it was that 170 that we spoke about as a bare minimum against this Australia side because they will back themselves to chase anything whether it's 150 whether it's 220

they will back themselves to chase it they know how to go up and down the gears Ash Garden has not even had to get in and get going where and Molineux Sutherland's not been needed they bat very very deep they are dominant they are world champions and they are deserving of it.

And a player like Wehram who was striking the ball at 180 through this tournament, not required, like you say, Gardner barely used at the end. I think for me, if there's one moment the key thing was Beth Mooney coming down and banging four over mid-on, not that far into her innings, but saying I'm going to take on the bowling, I'm going to be aggressive, I'm going to find boundaries. That's what England didn't have the confidence to do through their power play. They were anxious.

They constrained themselves. as much as Australia's good bowling curtailed them. And I think going into the innings break, they were telling themselves a story that it had been really tough out there, been really hard to score, but it turned out that it wasn't. Well, I think the strike rates,

the difference in strike rates makes a huge point in that. England's best battle with strike rate was Freer Kemp, her 44 off 28, strike rate 157. No one else had a strike rate of above 115. It was 88 for Danny White, a hundred for Amy Jones, 109 for Nat Silverbrunt, and 115 for Alice Capsine, just 33 for Heather Knight,

but Australia, 150 for Vol, 130 for Mooney, 140 for Litchfield, and 110 and 150 for Ash Gardner. That is such a difference. And the template they've got that we spoke about before they chased, where Vol and Lichfield are the two who've got the license to really go early, and then they've got the experience, the older wiser heads with Mooney and Perry to work around them. And those four pretty much finished off the chase on their own.

It really was a commanding performance in Australia then chasing down that 151 target. They got there with 17 balls to spare. That's the level of comfort and only losing those three wickets along the way. The players have been embracing in the middle. England had their own huddle in the centre. The Australian teams are still, the Aussies are still out there in the middle embracing their support staff. Of course, they all streamed onto the field. We've got a band being set up right in front of us because Clean Bandit are going to be performing,

shortly leading us up until the trophy presentation. We'll get some reaction from down on the outfield as well. But yeah, I'll take you through the scorecard before we get down for that reaction because in that first innings England, yep stuttering with the bat losing early wickets with Jones with the first out for just six giving Lucy Hamilton her first World Cup wicket. Danny Wyatt Hodge out for just eight 32 for two inside that fifth over. So the power play not going well. It's a little a catch by Mooney down the the leg side. Alice Capsi, reverse sweeping to be bold by Molyneux for 23. Heather Knight,

LBW to Garth, one that stayed low, which was really the nature of the pitch at that point in time. Freer Kemp, a breezy, 44 off 28 that England desperately needed, including 1-6. Nat Siverbruntz, 58 from 53, but even that wasn't enough. England needed more. They needed more boundaries. Only 13 in all. The Aussies were accurate in their, in their bowling. And Kim Garth, in particular four overs, one for 20. Lucy Hamilton, one for 19. They look to get after Ash Gardner in particular, three overs, nought for 32. But outside of that, you had Molyneux four overs, one for 32. Annabelle Sutherland, one for 34, Georgia Wareham, two overs for nine.

And then in the chase, Georgia Vol played on to Lauren Bell, 17 for one in the second over. We'll pause for a moment and get some reaction. Henry Moran is on the outfield. Alongside the England coach Charlotte Edwards. lot of your reaction? Yeah, just gutted really. I think we came here with so much belief and confidence to hopefully pull off something really special.

You know, I thought we put ourselves in with a good shout. It didn't look easy to bat on first up to get to 150, but you know, the Australian team are a very good team and we're completely outplayed there in the end and yeah, so just disappointed.

Nat Siverbrunt said to us yesterday she didn't want to leave lords with any what-ifs. Did you see a side that was as bold as they could have been today with the bat or was it just difficult and the conditions? I think the conditions weren't easy. I mean, you know, Nat Silverbrand's probably

the best player in the world and she came off saying it wasn't particularly easy and I thought they bowled well, they bowled straight, good change of the pace. Yeah, we probably just didn't get that partnership going probably early on in the piece. I thought Kemper and Siverbrant were brilliant at the back end

that got us up to a total and I guess we didn't probably start as well as we would have liked with the ball, but they put a lot of pressure on us. And, you know, credit to Australia, I thought, you know, Beth Mooney again, on the big occasion stands up and obviously puts her side in a commanding position. What do you say to your side now? I'm really proud of them. I said, you know, coming into today, you know, where we've come from,

the way we've played throughout this tournament, there's so many positives. T20 cricket is a tough format, you know. And we competed today. We weren't quite good enough, but there's lots of positive signs for the future for this group. Do you feel that this is a team that can now look at this day and think, right, that's the blueprint of what we've got to be doing when you see Australia?

Yeah, absolutely. I think they've led the way for a number of years now in women's cricket. So the depth they've got to be doing. is why they can play the way they can at the top. So yeah, of course they are. We've known that. You need to beat your best to be a little Australian team. We weren't quite at our best today,

and hence why they're lifting the trophy now. This tournament a lot felt like getting England to the final was a big part of the overall narrative just for what today could be. Obviously it isn't the fairy tale ending, but how do you reflect more broadly on the competition and this England performance? It's been an amazing competition

to be part of, I think, you know, more teams being in it. We saw some brilliant games, you know, Ireland, Scotland, Netherlands. I thought they brought so much to this competition. I've loved it. Shame it's come to an end now, but I think it's done so much for women's cricket

again in this country. You know, a sellout here for laws again. Incredible and hopefully we can build on this. We've got the 100 next and hopefully that's a real point. platform for the sport to keep growing. You are ultra competitive and you always want to win and that's what good

athletes always want but there will be a hunger now from this team won't there to come back and show what they can do? Yeah there will be and they've really dug deep throughout this one with some real fight. They never gave up there at the end which I'm

really, really proud of and our time will come now. I don't, you know we've got, we're building you know this is always going to be a a quick turnaround for us but we're certainly further than I thought we'd be in the journey that we've taken and I think the next 12 months is super exciting for us as a group. You said when you got the job, judge me at the end of the T20 World Cup, where are we with that journey? Well that's your to judge me but all I can say is I'm really happy with where we've

come from. Yeah, I couldn't be proud of this group or where the games are and people are talking positively about this team now, which they weren't when I took over. So I'm super proud and that's because they've put in behind the scenes and we've won back the fans because they've come to watch us today, which is absolutely outstanding. And I can't thank the supporters and all of our families enough for the support we've had over the last sort of three and a half weeks. Because it does feel like the narrative has changed around this England team from from a public perception. Well, we're not talking about fitness and we're not talking about fielding. and that was one of the real instances.

I want us to talk about the cricket and the cricket. You know, although we've missed out today, I don't think that's something we should be disheartened by. This is a very, very good cricket team. They've obviously dominated world cricket for a number of years. And, you know, we're not too far away. Lottie, many thanks to your time. And congratulations to your side for their performances in the tournament.

And here comes Phoebe Litchfield. Goodness me, what a performance from this Australian side. Yeah. gone to plan, hasn't it? I think we've been playing the way we wanted to play all the tournament, and today nothing changed. So it's pretty satisfying being on the winners' card. A lot of talk about Australia being a bit of a wounded animal coming into this competition.

How determined were you as a side? What was the messaging internally coming into this? Yeah, we know we're a good side. I know we haven't probably performed the best in those last two World Cops, but internally we know that we're a bloody good side. And we just got to believe that. just win those pressured moments and that's what we did this tournament and we made it really simple and I guess followed through it on that which was really

pleasing and I think a lot has to go to our scuba so for Molineux who's done an amazing job setting us up both physically and mentally but yeah I think the group's in such a great I guess spot and performing well and having fun and I think that's a recipe for success it did look fun out there it looked like you were having the time of your life not a World Cup final yeah well I think you're that's the only way to to be, I guess, you know, packed a crowd at Lords, World Cup Finals, it's stuff of dreams, so it's pretty easy to enjoy it.

In terms of this Australian side of the journey that they're on, it is a new side with a new captain, but it feels as though you just continue this incredible momentum that the ride has shown over the last decade. Yeah, I think that's exactly right. It's easy to keep playing the way we want to play, especially with teammates that have been playing for 10 plus years. And, yeah, that legacy of Australian cricket

will go on for decades. and I guess every new player comes in and knows exactly what they have to do and is motivated by the past players and yeah it's a pretty cool cool team to be a part of particularly special when it's beating England? 100%. They're an amazing side and current to them that had an amazing tournament and I know that they're one to beat and we got the rubber of the green today but I'm sure there's going to be fiery battles in the future

and I know that every World Cup facing up against them is no easy feat So they played amazingly throughout the whole tournament. So credit to them. But yeah, just got over the line today. What do the next 24 hours look like just finally? Not sure. I think follow our skipper. She's a good partier.

Celebrate well. We've worked really hard for this. And the last, I guess, six weeks, has been massive. So I think a lot of us will sit down and look back and go, how cool is this? And not many people win a World Cup final. So we'll celebrate well. Well played today. Many congratulations.

Thank you so much. Phoebe Litchfield down here on the boundary edge amongst some very, very happy Australian players. Yep, thank you, Henry. You could just hear it in her voice. 48 she made today in a match-winning partnership of 100 for that second wicket, along with Beth Mooney, 64 or 49 for her.

So I just finished off the scorecard. The second wicket was Litchfield, bowled by Charlie Dean, and then Mooney with just 11 runs to win, LBW to Eccleston for 64. it turned out that the, well, I think we knew at the time that the catch that was disallowed didn't have an impact on the result in any way really. But a word for, well, Phoebe Litchfield was destined to be a star, wasn't she from a young age? And she didn't play in the 20203 T20 World Cup the last time that Australia had won this trophy.

So yeah, she wasn't going to miss this one. And you feel as if almost this, this innings have sort of been the making of the star. It's something of a coronation, isn't it? She missed a bit of the tournament through the group stages with that quad injury, played the first game, then had to sit out for a while, came back in and looked very rusty here against India, was frustrated, was whacking herself in the pads constantly,

which she couldn't time the ball, but timed it pretty nicely out here today. And there's that fearlessness they've cultivated, and I think that's the big difference today, that difference in attitude, where England were trying to be cagey, they were telling themselves, they were playing it smart.

I think Nat Siverbrunt was thinking, well, I just have to bat through the innings rather than how do I dominate the innings? And you see a player like Litchfield come out at that young age, not a care in the world, saying I'm not here to survive, I'm here to make it, to damage the opposition, I'm here to make an impact.

And that's what she was able to do, the speed of her scoring rate, picking up a couple of sixes along the way, 48 off 35. That's what kills a small chase like this and made the second half of a formality. Yeah, it was a clip of her batting in the net when she was 16 years old, wasn't it, for New South Wales. It went viral and that led her to making her WBBL debut and then into the Australian side.

And here she is winning a T20 World Cup with a fine hand with the bats and in partnership with Beth Mooney. Some reflection, Alex, on what Charlotte Edwards had to say. She, of course, had positive signs for the future. Do you concur with that and where do you see this setup now with Charlotte Edwards as coach, where she's taking them from to getting them here to this final, despite a heavy defeat? feet today. Yeah, I absolutely agree with her. I think the way she said that people are speaking positively about this side now. They're not talking about the fitness and the fielding. They're not, you know, slating the team with the way that they're playing. I think absolutely she is absolutely

spot on, you know, this team have been criticized a lot, but they have also improved so much, so quickly under Charlotte Edwards. The way they've fielded throughout this tournament has been exceptional. The way they've bowled, the way they've batted. I think the fielding for me is been a huge, huge improvement. And ultimately, sometimes you are just beaten by a better team. And Australia are the better team. But the way England have played, they've not put a foot wrong today really, have they? You know, they've, yes, they didn't take on the power play in the way that they could have done or they have done throughout the tournament.

But it's just one of those things. Let's hear from our player of the match. Beth Mooney for an excellent 64 of just 49 balls with 10 boundaries. in there we need to get a mic to Beth at some point there you go you seem to like finals don't you you seem to step up yeah just just happy to be here I think you know it's been pretty well documented we didn't quite make it this far in the last two ICC events so yeah just woke up this morning pretty grateful we made it this far let's talk about how you play first of all with the gloves I mean brilliant take down the the stumps with Danny Wyatt and then obviously

you're batting let's talk about your keeping first of all what did it feel like out there yeah I've you know warmed up in the tournament I think at the start I was a little bit rusty but got some great support in our coaching staff with Gab Twining and and Shells backed me with the gloves and Sean Pleggler so I've had plenty of help along the way I can't take too much credit it's been really nice to to have some consistency with the gloves and to play a role in the field as well tactical as well to stand up to the stumps quite a lot today it seemed yeah you know it's obviously a conversation that happens between me and the bowlers I'm more than happy to do what they they tell me to you know

It's their plans and their job to execute. And thankfully, they back me to clean up anything that goes a bit awry. But, yeah, we're humming and aring about that review off, Dan. But, yeah, we got there in the end. And 64 of 49 balls, so you went pretty quickly. Moved around the crease a lot as well. What was your game plan today? Oh, I think, you know, like I spoke about in the semifinal,

it's really important to settle the dugout in the power play in a big game. So I thought Folly hit the ball really well. and then had a unfortunate dismissal. So, you know, and Phoebe came out and nailed it from ball one. So, you know, I just kept going and tried to make sure we got ahead of the game as early as possible. Beth, congratulations on your player of the match today. Go and join your team and enjoy. The TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live.

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Or is he just the king of the attention economy? Find out on good bad billionaire. Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts. Yeah, well-deserved player of the match, Beth Mooney. Now, scene which has gone on for a number of minutes now and still ongoing, is down at the far side, in front of the dugouts, just in. the advertising hoardings is Sophie Eccleston sitting on the grass and the player who is kneeling down next to her with her arm around her consoling and can and has been there for some

time is Australia's George Evol. I think the two of them have played UPy Warriors together in the WPL but what wonderful sports sportsmanship to see that at the end of a final where tensions did run high at the end when Eccleson's catch was turned down and she was furious and she didn't play in the 27th. World Cup. She didn't get that chance. This was to be her moment. Let's go to the player of the tournament now. Big smiles for the camera. First of all, as an experienced player who's been around, seen many World Cups, do you still get the same buzz? Does it feel the same today? Yeah, you know, this has been on the calendar for a little while for us. So, you know, it's just

nice to be part of the squad first and foremost and have a role to play opening the batting and at keeping so yeah just pumped to be here there's been a lot of evolution in this group in the last 12 months and a lot of growth and some fun times as well so really nice that we've kept off with the win today of course the whole tournament as well your side has been so consistent what do you think the key to your success has been well I think just playing the game with a bit of conviction a lot of freedom a lot of bravery and backing each other and having lots of belief you know I mentioned we've got a lot of support on the sideline our coaching staff and

support staff are amazing had a couple of Eagles along the way that we've managed to, you know, have a full squad to pick from in a big game and I think that, you know, we can't shy away from how important that is. So it's a great group to travel with. We've been on the road for five and a half weeks and, you know, plenty of people have come over from halfway across the world to watch the final some a couple of days ago, some a few weeks ago. So we feel the love and feel the support here and back home.

Word on your new captain as well, obviously pretty exciting to come and win this tournament. What's you been like? Yeah, so it's been amazing. She's just calm and composed and doesn't look too flustered, I think. She's put her own spin on the captaincy and been a great leader. I think she's been a great leader in Australian cricket for a long time. People probably just haven't been able to see that, and we're fortunate we get to see it firsthand. And, you know, the girls have really got around her.

And it's just amazing icing on the Cape Fort. It's been a pretty amazing tournament for us as a group. Well, Beth, you've got a lot of silverware to look after. Put it in the home and the Territory Suite world. Well done again. Thank you. Double celebration for Beth Mooney gets a couple of mementos to take home with alongside a World Cup winner's medal, which they will be presented with in due course.

Yeah, just that beautiful moment down there with Sophie Eccleston. She was distraught. She had made her England debut before the 2017 World Cup, but couldn't play in the tournament because she had to do her A-levels, and she was advised, do your studies, your England career can wait. and then she had this opportunity. And yet, there were tears of joy from the Australians and there'll be tears of upset from the England side, Alex.

Yeah, because, you know, home world cups don't come around very often. It might be that some of the girls first and last or only home World Cup because the reality is that the cycles, you know, the next World Cup, wherever it is. You know, you've got to wait a long time for it to be back here in the UK. So, yeah, England will be gutted. You know, they had a real opportunity. They'd been brilliant throughout this World Cup. But I think on reflection, when the dust is settled and they have really thought about this game,

they'll recognise they've been beaten by a better team. I think just a note on the player of the tournament, there may be some people who would say, well, it should be Danny White Hodge, 302 runs in the tournament. Mooney 238. I think the key there would be that Mooney made 50s in both of the knockout games. Danny White Hodge didn't make a score in either of the knockouts. Yeah, those things carry weight, don't they? And doing it here in a final in this big pressure situation.

Clean Bandit in the background, by the way, taken to the stage in front of us on the outfield. As players are meeting and greeting their family and friends, early in the outer as well and signing some autographs. The stage is also being set up at the far side where they'll be presented with their winners medals. The significance of this, Jeff from the Australian perspective, for Sophie Molyneux as Australia's new captain, because there have been a number of queries, a lot of surprise when she was made captain, but she's now at the first time of asking that Australia to a T20. World Cup trophy. Yeah, understandably there was a degree of controversy because

Mulline is someone who's missed a lot of cricket with injury over the last few years has been unavailable a lot of the time and so the reason that the hierarchy rated her so highly, that was something that they talked about internally a lot but it wasn't something that was broadly

known to people outside of the setup and I don't think they communicated that very well either. There was very much just a sense of well you just have to trust us, she's great rather than really getting into specifics of why they preferred Molineux over other players who've been in the side for longer and who are much more likely to be more obvious picks in a Best 11. So Molineux had those question marks over her ascendancy to the captaincy,

came in in the captain's series in the West Indies where she had to sit out of several games, where she played some games but wasn't able to bowl, all of these kinds of irregularities that just didn't feel very Australian because generally there's a clarity of thought about leadership structures. They put her in place with two vice captains. One of those vice captains isn't in this 11, Talia McGrath. Ash Gardner is in the 11 but then wasn't used to captain when Molyneux was missing because McGraw was.

It's been confusing and I think it has been badly communicated and badly managed. But nothing shuts people up like success. So they've come into a World Cup, they've cruised through it unbeaten. I mean, frankly, they should have, in the group stage, India was likely to be the big challenge and they met that challenge with great surety out here on this ground. And that was probably the stiffest challenge they faced, was having to chase down that 170. But they've done it with ease in the final.

And I think what we keep being told about Molyneux is that she's someone who's able to keep people calm and keep people level without losing some of a sense of fun. She's very dry and serious in her media engagements, but even something like her address to the nation that she recorded in the long room a couple of days ago to say, forget about the football, come and watch us. in a World Cup. You know, there is a sense of humour there. She just doesn't let it out when

when people like us are looking. So you've got to have some level of trust that within that team environment, she's able to make them feel good about the fact that they're here. And I think what we saw today was a team reflected in Litchfield's attitude, Vol's attitude, that they are really happy to be here rather than nervous about being here. Yeah, and she was the one dancing on stage leading the charge, wasn't she with Katie Perry at the MCG in the 2020? She must be might be slightly more withdrawn about doing that now that she's got the captain's the arm band. But you never know, you might just see her, well, probably starting in the tavern as soon as possible. Well, it is an incredible story for her.

Six years later, with stress fracture, two years of struggles with injuries, to them be lifting a T20 World Cup. And a player who did it tough domestically because she led the Melbourne renegades at a very young age when they were the worst team in the comp or up there, down there with the Melbourne Stars as the worst team. They had no international players a lot of the time. The big names didn't want to go and play there, and it was left to players like Sophie Molinue and Molli Strano to lift that team up.

And she did. She built that team bit by bit, season after season, became an opening bat, did every job that needed to be done, and had the commitment to play with a poor team and make something of them so that they are a force in that league now. So that was a big part of, I think, why they wanted to turn to her for leadership, once that spot became available.

Alex, England outplayed here and it means Australia's dominance over England in World Cups. Across all formats now extends to eight out of eight. It's such a familiar question, isn't it? But how does an England side find an answer? Charlotte Edwards will have more opportunities to try and solve this puzzle.

They're on the right path. They absolutely are. And I think one important thing that happened and is happening is the importance of all rounders. Australia were way ahead of the game when it came to all rounders and being everybody being able to bat, everybody being able to ball and everyone being exceptional fielders. So England are on the right path. They've got Freya Kemp, Danny Gibson, Charlie Dean as well. Sophie Eccleston can hopefully become a little bit better with the bat. So they are on the right path. Their fieldings become better. They've not been noticed

because they're fielding in a bad way throughout this tournament. They've been noticed because of positive things so England are on the right path. Australia are just ahead of England. As they have been for a long long time. Thank you to Jeff Lemon who has been with us throughout this women's T20 World Cup and welcome back Katie Martin for a final chat and a bit of an overview Katie on this tournament because this final has been watched by 28,887 in this ground which is a record for a women's match at Lords. overall the tournament's broken records, hasn't it, for attendance at grounds. So just to start with that and the impact that the tournament overall has had on that global scale.

Yeah, I think we talked about leading into this tournament that this was going to be the biggest one ever, the amount of tickets that was sold even leading into this tournament to see group phase. I remember the Oval and how many tickets were sold out there and even in neutral games. And I think it's such a great view to be able to see spectators in and supporting different teams. And I think when you reflect on the results as well, There's been Scotland, how outstanding they were Ireland picking up their first win in the T20 World Cup against the Western D's Alex. Yes, I know you're nodding away. But it just shows that, you know, there's more and more opportunities.

Teams are getting closer. Yes, I think at the top end of the scale, the investment does show that there is still a gap. And that was where Haley Matthews made some very strong statements, didn't she, as Western. And rightly so. Rightly so. I think, you know, for them to get through to the semi-final and then be absolutely hammered by Australia, it shows the huge gap. That's also why tournaments like this are important platforms for players to make their voices heard because at other times a post-match press conference will be lost.

But actually at these tournaments, the world, the cricket world, is listening and paying attention. You always feel, and you'll know this Alex playing here in 2017, you always feel responsibility as a player to be able to continue to develop it and to bring new faces into the game. New kids playing the game as well. And, you know, I guess that's what England's disappointment will be, is that they had the opportunity they would have felt to inspire a nation. but I think they've done that all the way through the tournament

and listening to Charlotte Edwards and what she's brought back. She said people have texted her and said, we're so proud. We love tuning into watching England play their cricket, and I think we're seeing that all around the world. Yes, you always love it, you know, an Australian team to be strong, and I think it's been good for cricket over the last few years to see others competing, and it does, it's a tournament play, isn't it?

Sometimes it's not the best team that always wins, but we have seen that today. Hopefully it's not going to be continued dominance for Australia, because none of us like that, really Alex. Spoken as a true New Zealander. But I think just in general as a tournament has shown, yes, there's still investment gaps in particular areas, but it shows that when the players have the opportunity on big stage,

they really love to step up, and they are inspiring, you know, different generations to be able to continue to pick up the game. And I felt this tournament was probably that generational shift when you see a Phoebe Litchfield, a Charlie Dean, that had grown up watching a lot of their idols playing to now have the opportunity to be able to do this and where their team's colours,

and I think it'll just continue that strength. You throw in the Olympics in 2028. Maybe there'll be a few Scottish people in the Great Britain side. We'll wait and see. But, yeah, I just think it's just continued to evolve the game. And the style of play now

compared to 2009 when we're first here is so different. Yeah, I wanted to look at the totals as well because if you tot up, how many 200 plus scores there have been tot up? I said total. One, two, three, four, five, six scores in all T20 World Cups, going back to 2009 of over 200 of which five of those have come in this tournament.

We didn't see that today and the pitch has a large part to do with that and that's a conversation to be had about everyone knows the pitch is here at Lords, they're moving towards drop-ins and today was not the spectacle of the pitch. I'll tell you what, there's a huge argument that the final could and should have been at the oval. Yes, it's the home of cricket and yes, you know, brilliant today, absolutely brilliant today but the wickets are better at the oval and they still get the crowds there yeah got record crowds there for women's matches as well that's a debate being had as reports say about the the world test championship final potentially but yeah in terms of those scores though we have seen

good pitches around the country but then the skill set and the strength the power to match it to be hitting those big scores I think we've seen the evolution of the game and the one thing I've loved is that the boundary ropes haven't been bought in nice and tight it's allowed to you know for spinners to stay in the game and it's allowed to you know for spinners to stay in the game and it's allowed the running between the wickets and actually emphasize the athleticism, and that's come from the professionalism of the game, the investment in terms of those high-performance programs. And I guess as a player, maybe you look at the likes of Netherlands that were in their first World Cup,

to be able to see and compete against Australia and say, actually, that's the best team in the world. This is what we need to do as an organisation. Sometimes you have to be involved to show and understand what is needed back home to be able to invest in your game and to see where this is at. The professional teams are shown that they've definitely got the skill sets and they can do it consistently, whereas on the odd patches you might get an upset here or there, but generally speaking, the cream of the crop usually rise with their skills. But I think the game's a different game now, and we're seeing those 200 scores, I think, will become more regular,

and the wicket does play a massive part in that. And talking of investments, the prize money for this tournament was the biggest pot overall. The prize money that the Australians will take away is the same as what New Zealand won, wasn't it, two years ago which was 2.34 million dollars so that's 1.75 million pounds for the winners 1.75 million what's that divided by 15 you do the maths I'll let you get your calculator out and you can work out Susie Bates did she built herself a sauna with her winning she did yes most new Zealanders have a house but to be fair it's probably cheaper than a hotel room for a night here in London spoken as a true tourist but 80 grand each yeah you can do a lot with that

Jeez. That's also where investment does need to filter down to the associates and the likes of Netherlands, Scotland and Ireland playing here. And it was a joyous moment seeing Ireland get their first win over like 12 years of playing T20 World Cups to finally get over the line against West Indies. But they need more matches, don't they? And they need more funding in order to be able to stage more matches. The ICC annual conference, interestingly, is being staged in Edinburgh.

I think Jay Shah, who's been here today, they're all travelling there tomorrow for that. hopefully as an indication of we realize we need to embrace the associates and that's where there is room for growth in the game. When I think about women's the 2009, even 2017 now, there was what, seven games that were put on TV and that was only... We didn't have DRS at all the grounds. I failed mass, but what is that? Nine years ago. Just think that the development and the broadcast that's on and you guys being here and us being here to broadcast this tournament and all the technology. And the DRS and every game and all the technology, nine years is such a short span.

in terms of the context of that. So yes, it has grown quickly and rightly so. I mean, 2017 New Zealand could have done with a couple of extra run-out opportunities with going upstairs. We won't reflect on that out. But I just think there's been that now promotion of the game that we're now being able to create heroes

at a woman's cricketers. You know, the likes of people saying, my favourite's Elise Perry and it's a young boy down the road. That's the thing I love about being able to broadcast the game more. And I think associates now having the opportunity in people saying actually there's I didn't know that there was an Irish cricket team that I could actually be a part of. So that's a great thing about.

We always talk about investment, but it is definitely in different context. Some teams need more matches. Bangladesh need more matches against higher opposition. They need just gym access, to be honest. They're in a different capacity because of cultural issues. Whereas others are just from a funding perspective as well. But a huge thing that's changed as well. In 2020, the MCG in Australia felt like they had to put Katie Perry on to sell out the MCG.

And they did, and it was brilliant. brilliant spectacle, brilliant game of cricket and a brilliant concert. Today we've had Rita Orr and Clean Bandit, but everyone's gone. There's nobody here. Clean Bandit are performing to a quarterful stadium. That was Katie Perry plus a brilliant game of cricket. We haven't had such the same entertaining cricket for the home team to get behind. The home team didn't win.

No, but I'm saying people are here for the cricket. People are here for the cricket, not the entertainment like they were in 2020. Do you know what I find amazing in Australia? Ellie, you spent time there and now you have as well. for this Australian women's cricket team throughout the years they've been the greatest sporting team they've won the most games

in their sporting event than any other team in history yet you go back to Australia in WBBL when you compare to the 100 and they're not even half half full you might get North Sydney Oval I find this team is so under supported

within their own country because it's actually probably a byproduct of them being so good they're taken for granted almost they thought MCG here we go this is a breakout moment but you still don't get sold out crowds for Aussie games either. So I'd love Australia to not take this team for granted because they are that good and I think we've seen England crowds go we love our girls, we love the way that they approach the game and they're going to continue to support them both in the 100 competition

and in the blast hopefully more years to come with that and then continue on in these bilateral series. Yeah the visibility has really mattered and I feel there hasn't been a big drive hasn't there around this tournament with the drive to have the the captains and Nats of a Brunt's face and England projected onto the billboards in Piccadilly Circus, for example. These big movements of help to say the game is here, come and watch. And then in this tournament, people have come to the ground in their record numbers. They have seen and they have loved. And that's why they came to pack out laws 28,000 today, the majority,

all supporting the home nation. Just Australia's excellence came to the fore again, and England were not able to adapt and not able to put a total on the board that challenged. The TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5. Live Live. He's widely recognised as one of the greatest footballers in history. He's won the prestigious Ballandour Award five times. He's the all-time leading goal scorer in professional football.

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