Test Match Special - England’s revolution through the eyes of Ben Stokes

Episode Date: December 22, 2022

Ben Stokes brings us inside the England camp after a year to remember for the men's Test side. We hear details of Bairstow’s Trent Bridge blitz, the record breaking win over India and how the Lord��s defeat to South Africa was quickly put to bed leading to a series win. Plus, Stokes also recalls how he steered England’s white ball side to T20 glory at the MCG.

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from BBC Radio 5 Live. Welcome to this special TMS podcast, looking back at the fortunes of England men's team in 2022. It's been an incredible 12 months for the side, and especially for Ben Stokes. This time last year, England were involved in what became a disastrous Ashes series, followed by defeat in the West Indies. But the test team has been totally turned around under Stokes and the new coach Brendan McCullum, while the White Ball team won the T20 World Cup with Stokes playing a key role. It's also been a big turnaround for Stokes personally,

who had taken time out from playing cricket to protect his mental health. Stokes has been reflecting on his year with Tim Peach. The TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live. Looking back on the time where I decided to take a break away from cricket was, I think, a culmination of quite a lot of different things that happened over a prolonged period of time. you know having to spend a lot of time away from home with living under the conditions throughout the you know the COVID times which obviously affected you know the whole world and the whole nation you know and then the illness of my father and then eventually the passing of my father just sort of the relationship with myself and cricket just sort of took a um it just sort of yeah just took a bad turn I think and I was finding myself actually sort of resenting every time that I was either training or out on the field and sort of all just became a bit too much and you know it's one of those things where I was feeling a certain

way when I was by myself but then having to put on another sort of face when I was in the dressing room or you know around the other lads or around other people and stuff like that so having to sort of continuously be you know a different version of myself over a long period of time, you know, obviously just got a bit too much for me and then adding that to all the things that sort of I had to go through over, you know, a long period of time, just got a bit too much. What did that break from the game give you? I think it gave me an opportunity to go away and, first of all, speak to someone about, you know,

my feelings, not just about feelings about cricket, just feelings in general. and how what I was going through at the time and got an understanding about what sort of emotions I was going through and how that was affecting me, my family and my friends and the people around me as well. And it just also gave me a time to just completely get away from cricket and how I sort of had to live my life for such a long period of time which unfortunately I wasn't enjoying when I had to take a break.

So yeah, you know, going away and just not having to and just sort of living a life where I was just sort of waking up and not having to worry about all that other kind of stuff and just spend some time at home and getting myself back into a place in a position where I felt that, you know, I was able to go back and play cricket again. At what point did you realise that you were ready to come back?

The person I was speaking to actually said, he said it will be like a, there will be something that will bring you back, you know, no one knows what it will be. You probably won't know what it will be, but it will just hit you. And it was actually when I had my, my second surgery on my finger when I could actually move it again because when I came back to play after my first surgery I was actually not able to move it at all that was very

painful and it was frustrating not being able to sort of be able to go out and perform so how I wanted to do when I knew that my finger was not allowing me to do that so yeah when I remember being on the operating table and the surgeon actually said oh look your joints actually moving again and And I remember leaving the hospital after my surgery and I was, like, that was in my moment where I was, you know, I felt that once I get on my rehab done and get back into it again, I'm pretty certain I'm going to be able to go back on the field again. There's a quote from you I saw when you were coming back and said you were just looking forward to being back with your mates. how sort of instrumental were those mates in that time away and bringing you back in? If you build relationships with people that go beyond a working relationship.

And I had a lot of guys in the dressing room when I came back in who I've been playing cricket with since the teenage years and built very good relationships with them away from cricket as well who aren't just work colleagues are also very good friends of mine. So, you know, I was staying in contact with them whilst I wasn't playing to then getting back into the dressing and being around everyone was, yeah, I remember being very excited when I met up at the airport before we flew to Australia and got to see everyone again.

You've talked a lot about your dad and what an influence he was on your career but also on your life as well. Was there sort of an element of doing it for your dad coming back? One of the reasons why I was, you know, almost pushing myself to still be out on the field was actually because it was sort of like, oh, this is what, you know, this is what my dad has always wanted, you know, he loved watching me play all over the world for various different teams or whether it be England or in the IPL or whoever it was. So that was something that I used to stay out on the field through that, whereas, you know, looking back on it, actually, that was another thing that made me resent it because it was sort of associating cricket

with my dad passing away so it was a real strange one to think about whereas you know now it's just sort of every time I go out in the field you know even though he's not here I know that he is here and you know I'm always thinking of him always trying to take him out on the field with me as well and and rather than use my dad as a reason to to keep playing you know it's just nice knowing that even though he's not here I've still got him here you talk about taking him out on the field how there's obviously the celebration that you've got from, how else does that sort of manifest itself? I think just naturally, really. I think, you know, there's many cricketers, many sportsmen around the world who do something in memory of somebody. So I'm not the only one

who has something like that, but yeah, it's nice when something goes well individually that you sort of just sort of pay a little bit of respect to him up there. Let's move on to you taking the captaincy. Can you just talk us through how. all that came about. Yeah, Rudy called me before anything got officially announced out in the public just to let me know that he was stepping down from his role as captain. And to be honest, I just sort of let him speak and at that time I was just a listener for him because obviously it must have been a very tough decision to step down from, you know, one

of the greatest honours to lead your country out into a sporting field. he was, you know, an unbelievable, you know, servant to the job. What he had to do for, you know, nearly 18 months or two years of captaining aside through COVID was, you know, unbelievable. You know, I'll always look back on that, on Joe's, you know, captaincy to that period as him holding the fort. And, you know, I was very fortunate enough that when I got the opportunity to captain that, I wasn't, you know, the person bearing that.

and so Joe did a magnificent job as his role as England captain and sort of paved the way for me to come in and and take over and yeah I just remember that it was one of those things where I phoned Keezy because he was new into the job as well I just phoned him just to let him know that if the opportunity is there for me then I'm absolutely ready for it rather than him sort of double guessing himself whether I actually wanted to do it and then yeah we he drove up and met me in the north-east up at Durham at Seam Hall

and we had a good conversation and just sort of progress from there. At what point did you start to think, as England captain, this is how I want my team to play? I think when you get the responsibility to do it, you put your mark on the job and put your mark onto a team in terms of how you want to go and play and bring people in and doing that. And then obviously when Brendan McCullum's name came up in the conversations around new coach,

I was very excited to initially be thinking about having the opportunity to work alongside him as captain, him as coach. And then when it officially got announced, it was just very simple and spoke about how we sort of both see English test cricket going forward and we were very aligned with that. You know, it wasn't like the case of an hour and a half conversation about what we want to do. It was pretty simple and the messages, you know, sort of from the outset have been that towards a time. team so yeah i think early on i was very um very clear about how i wanted to sort of have an input into into test cricket and how i thought we could maybe change the way in which we think about test cricket if you would could describe your approach your collective approach with brendon to test cricket how would you describe it very early on in the summer tried to describe to the lads

that you know feel as if you're in the you're in the entertainment business you know go out and entertain the people who come to watch us live at the ground who watch us at home on TV and people around the world and try to make you know every day of the test matches as entertaining and as sort of watchful as we possibly can try to sort of take the not the result out of it but you know just enjoy the moment of what we're trying to do we're out there representing our country with, you know, the three lines on our chest, you know, and just, I don't know, it's explaining to go out and have some fun, you know, because if you can enjoy playing, you know, test match cricket, representing your country, then, you know, what else is there to do, really?

Not adding any more pressures to what the game already brings with it, going out and playing for England is extreme, it comes with it, it's enough pressures as it is, and trying to take all of the external pressures away from that, that can sometimes be added to individual players is something that we really tried to do early on. And I think in the way in which we delivered in which we spoke to the team, I think we managed to do that really well. And I think that showed in the way in the response that me and Brenda managed to get from the players that went out there and everyone tried to express themselves as well as they possibly could

and just tried to look at it from an exciting point of view and, yeah, just try and enjoy it as much as possibly can. Did the players take a bit of convincing? It's a very different brand of cricket. very different to what anyone else plays, what's been played before. Did, not looking for names, but did some of the team take a bit of convincing to come along with you on the journey? No, I don't think so. I don't think, you know, it took too many people to be convinced by it all. I think what obviously does help is that when you have some, you know, very good success such early on

with the new way of going out and playing, that it obviously helps to do that and it gives people confidence confidence and knowing that, you know, this completely different way of playing, you know, can work. You know, as it was so different, it was just, I think the guys just really enjoyed actually playing around with and experimenting about a different way that they've probably become accustomed to of how to play test cricket. And I think, you know, it showed, you know, Jimmy Anderson was actually smiling on cricket pitch for a change. So, you know, I count that as a win anyway. So, but no, I just think that the lads just really enjoyed the sort of freedom that everybody got given to go out and just really express their abilities and their skills that, you know, they have, you know, because to get picked for England, you obviously have to be a very high, skilled player. But then, I guess, being given the freedom and the backing of the dressing room to go out and, you know, really express yourself and then not have to worry about the next game coming because, you know, we back.

If you get picked, you're going to get backed for a good period of time. It's not a case of if you don't perform within two or three games, we're going to look elsewhere because that's something we really tried to do, is to be consistent with selections and also consistent with our messaging as well. One of your first calls was to bring back Broad and Anderson, who hadn't been at the Caribbean. Was there any questions as to whether you'd do that? That's the first thing I said to Rob Key when we met was Anderson and Broderback.

Pretty much how simply that went. Tull me through going into your first test as permanent England captain, the New Zealand test. And in goes Stokes, is there any bowls on the leg stump? It's flicked away into the leg side. His corner mid-wickard. By Pope. And New Zealand are all out for 132. And they're bowled out in 40 overs.

Yeah, we got off to a great start. Obviously, the first day, you know, bowling first, I think, I can't remember exactly what we bowled them out for. But I remember it was we just kept on taking wickets over and over again. So couldn't go off to a better start. And then with the bat, we didn't get the runs that we wanted. Boles to edge, quarter slip. England are all out. 141 all out.

And New Zealand have polished England off. England do have a small lead. I believe you say, a small lead, having bowled New Zealand out from one or three, two. I must admit, I thought I'd be saying, oh, well, England have cruised nicely to sort of 280, 300. but I should have known better and another disappointing display with the bat from England.

I think Baza's first first words were well we said we were going to be entertaining so what's not entertaining about that getting rolled out for 150 but at the same time it was like it sets up a great test match we're still on level playing field

here in New Zealand we've got to bat again and then hopefully we'll go down and chase it down and that's literally how the game played out you know it was great to get off to a winning start against a very strong team Obviously, New Zealand won the Test Championship as well. So, yeah, I just remember being that first game, very special to leading England out officially for the first time

at Lords and against New Zealand as well. You mentioned it. It must have meant a lot to you that you have got that winning start for that new brand of cricket that you want to play. Yeah, I think it was more important for the team rather than myself and Baz, you know, because we're very, you know, regardless of how those sort of early games went, It was something that we were very clear and we're going to stay true to about this.

If it doesn't work, that doesn't mean we go away to the drawing board and we start again. Before we've even bowled a ball together as captain and coached, we've set out how we want to go about things, and we've been very clear with the boys about that of how we want to go and approach test match cricket. So even if I hadn't have gone to plan, you would have seen the same thing throughout the summer. It obviously does help when you win the majority of your games when you start out. So I want to go to day five at Trent Bridge, free entry for people, a full house coming to see this attacking, attractive brand of cricket. Can you talk me through that day as well, particularly that partnership with Johnny Birste in the middle of?

And England are just one strike away from winning this match, and there's still 22 overs available to be bold. And at T, I'll be honest, I thought, well, that's probably a draw. I think a few times throughout the summer it was great that the grounds were allowing, you know, free entry, especially into the, you know, going to the last days and stuff like that. So it was amazing having full house at Trent Bridge for them to be able to witness what they got to witness there. It was just, it was amazing and for not one second did we ever not think that we were going to go and try and chase us down. Remember Marcus Drosothic sort of knew into the job, he actually said to Brendan on, the balcony, he said, so at any point in this chase, are we going to consider blocking out

for the draw, and Baz just laughed at him and went like, nah. To have that clarity from your coach and just, I guess it just filters down to, you know, the specialist coaches, you know, your back and coach, bowling coach, field and coach. And then it also filters down towards the, you know, to the players, senior players, the not so senior players, just to really give them completeness clarity about what we want to achieve. So, yeah, on day five, all we had in our mind was we're going to try and chase us down. If we are going to lose this game, we're going to lose it because we tried to chase it down. Because I think, you know, that's what the crowd wants to see.

They want to see a team go for the win. And, you know, if we were to lose trying to do that, at least we could say we gave ourselves a crack at doing what we wanted to do and what we set out to do at the very start of the summer. which was to win games. And I think if you're prepared to lose games by giving yourself an opportunity to win it, then if you lose the odd couple here and there, then that's absolutely fine.

In comes Bolt, bowls to Stokes. And there it is. Clubbed away through the offside, and Stokes stands there. Bat raised, left arm raised. Scenes of Headingly 2019. I have to say, he hit that in the same sort of a place. and this full house is absolutely on its feet jumping up and down shouting and chanting and applauding an exhilarating afternoon of cricket

England win by five wickets and set up by Johnny Beirstow and that furious assault after tea that up there on the England dressing run see lots of man hugs going on handshakes and as general celebration and no doubt I'm sure saying what have we just seen. There was a moment during that final day at Trent Bridge where Johnny Bearstow just cleared the boundary and hit a six. You were batting with him. Can you tell us what you said to him? Yeah, I remember at one point the New Zealand team went to one of our tactics of bowling short and to almost, to know,

not buy a wicket but to make it a little bit tougher, you know, because when you've got all the men out on the boundary, you've sort of, you're in two minds about whether you go up or down and Johnny actually said he says I don't know what do you reckon I should do now with all these men back and just went well if the balls are short one I just hit it over the head hit it into the stand and he literally just went all right

and then he did it like five or six times Bear Stowe's waiting back held high Southie Bowles to him oh he's hit him down the ground here it comes very high and it's gone for six he just stood there and whacked it basically And Johnny Berso is not hanging around.

When you know what we're trying to do, when you're trying to chase a total down and then the team goes to something like that, you still have to score runs and, you know, just Johnny's got unbelievable power with the bat. You know, I've seen him play knocks like that and white ball cricket where he just hits the ball miles into the stand many when he went ball short. And just because it's test cricket and you're in whites and you're playing against the red ball, it doesn't mean you have to play it any different. But that knock was just remarkable to stand at the other end to watch, you know, it's

just completely not a domination of a seriously, seriously good bowling attack. South, he bowls to Bearstow, back cuts. There it is. Down towards the deep third boundary. Is it going to go for four? No, it's not back inside the rope. And Stokes has enough in him to come back for a third run and Beresto takes his helmet off, leaps in the air. That has been an astonishing innings from Johnny Barstow. And what a day on which to do it. as well with England chasing nearly 300 on the final day everyone standing up in this Trent Bridge ground to salute him one of the great days of his cricketing life not quite the fastest hundred but it's been absolutely stunning hitting since tea 77 balls

T20 hitting in a test match I don't think people will forget that run chase and that innings in particular because, you know, it was an amazing day and it was a really amazing day for Johnny, you know, one of the greats. And what can you say about Johnny's summer? Because he seems to have been the one who has been most transformed by this new approach. Yeah, I think I look at, you know, not just Johnny, but we're pointing Johnny out here. I think you look at Johnny's whiteball cricket and how successfully he is, you know, he's one of the, you know, one of if not the best. opening batters in the short format but he's very clear and he gets given bit you know a lot of clarity about how to go out and play because it's such a team driven message and we all know how

good johnny is and i just think giving johnny that um you know that freedom to go out and play in this very similar way in test cricket as he does in whiteball cricket because he wants to dominate the bowling attack and you know sometimes the narrative of test cricket is no you need to like sit back and sit in and i see them into the third spells and stuff like that but now I think we're seeing a completely different side to a lot of our players because of the freedom that we've been like they've been given to go out and do that even you know who thought Joe Rook could be better than what he was but you know you look at his summer as well some of the shots he's been playing and breaks well in and Rooke

plays anniversary gets hold of it gets four for it to the left of point all the way down to the boundary just remarkable and I think for me as a captain it's just so good to sit back and watch these lads go out and play in the way how much they do, you know, just the domination that they've showed over some incredible bowling attacks, you know, you think New Zealand, India and South Africa, they're not, you know, I know mugs of the ball, they're a seriously good bowling attack, but yeah, I think it's great to see it, you know, just sort of starting to hopefully filter down from us, down to, you know, the England Lions, England and 19s, and then, you know,

into county cricket because, you know, it's, I think it shows that you don't have to be stuck in a particular way of playing test cricket just because it's been done for however long for, you know, a long period of time. It's, yeah, it's different, but it's exciting to watch. India, let's go to the fourth innings, England's highest ever run chase. Jadaja, over the wicket bowls, a route goes for the first suite. They're going to go for it. A little scuffed shot, but it doesn't matter. And England has recorded the highest ever. score to win a test match, batting in the fourth innings, and they've done it with consummate ease with ridiculous ease. Was there ever any doubt, you're going to say it's no doubt you're

going to go for it, but was there ever any doubt that you wouldn't get it? Yeah, so going into that fourth innings against India, Edgebaston, obviously, you know, trying to chase down a pretty daunting total. It was never, again, never considered to not go for it. And again, it was the message, you know, if we're going to lose this game, we're going to lose it trying to win it. And I think if you look at, there's a lot of great things throughout that summer, but one of the most pleasing things for me was you're watching Zach and Alex's opening stand, you know, opening the batting in England's tough. You know, the ball does quite a lot more than as it gets older and, you know, they found it tough at the top, you know, facing some unbelievable boulders with

a new ball and, you know, for those two to go out and play in the manner in which they did and, you know, you know, not look after themselves, but they really set the benchmark for that chase. I think, you know, 100 run-opening standing, like 19 overs or something like that was incredible. And then, you know, Rudy and Johnny doing what they did, you know, yet again for us in the summer was just amazing. But, no, there was never any doubt in our minds that we were going to, you know, try and chase down what India had set us. Yeah, the lads just sort of run a roll at that point. South Africa at Lords was the first defeat you've had to being appointed captain and was there any moment where you doubted yourself, doubted your approach after that South Africa

test? Yeah so that this test against Africa at Lords you know was just a little blip you know we what was it two and a half days I think we lost the game and obviously all the all the queries are out there getting asked after the game about this style and that style you know you're going to reconsider it and it was just it was like no like absolutely not here is yanson again anderson waits and comes down the wicket and has bowled him that's it that's the end of the test match south africa of one by an innings and 12 runs it has been a comprehensive shalacking of england here at lords inside two days of full play here he is well ben um that's that's a that's a chastening defeat isn't it well that's a defeat yeah

Quick one. Yeah, or defeats a defeat, it's about it's three days or five days. Okay. How do you look back and analyse how England played in the game then? Well, I just think we didn't play anywhere near the, you know, capabilities that we know we're able to go out and produce. You know, no matter what side of cricket you play, if you don't play good cricket, you're going to lose. Unfortunately, we weren't able to produce what we've been able to do in the first four games, and South Africa were just better than us on all three days, or two and a half, as you said. I remember saying, I think it might have been to Jonathan Agnew, and he was like, it was quite a...

quite a, you know, devastating loss that. It was like, yeah, it was like, yeah, but two and a half days. I was like, well, you don't get any points for losing in five days, so, you know, a loss is a loss. You know, whether you're losing two and a half or five, it doesn't really matter. But no, there was never any doubt about how we were going to keep continuing playing. And, you know, if you play to win, you might lose the odd game. But I remember being in the dressing room after, actually, and obviously the lads are a little bit down as you are after a loss. And it's always, you know, it's never a nice feeling losing the game and stuff like that.

It's, yeah, it's not nice. But saying to Bazar, I've got a few days off here. And so I remember, like, going around, should we get some golf sorted for the lads just to, you know, like, just still feel relaxed and stuff. And I remember going, like, first thing I said after that loss was, right, lads, put your hand up if you want to play golf. I remember looking around and a few of the lads were, like, looking at each other, like, what? And it was like, well, me. Like, it was real, like, I'll never forget that, like, sort of looking round and seeing the sort of, like, not smiles come onto people's faces, but the, like, relief, I think, that, oh, God, what's going to happen here? Like, we've been beaten, like, quite badly, like, what's going to be said.

And I think that, again, just sort of lifted another, you know, lifted the weight off a few people's shoulders of, oh, what's going to happen here. And it's fine, like, we're going to lose games of cricket playing in the way which we play. But just because we've had a little blip on the way, doesn't mean that. we're going to stop trying to do what we've set out to achieve. And then, yeah, next test bounced back pretty well. So talking through the rest of that series, again, vindication for your approach. It's funny saying over and over again, you know, next game we're going to, you know, let's go even harder. You know, if we get stuck a little bit, if we feel like we're not sure what to do, you know,

just go harder, take the positive option with everything that we do. And, you know, it's not who's going to work. But, you know, if you're looking to be positive and stuff like that, it just makes everything a lot easier, you know, whether you're, you know, want to go out and play freely or you want to make some crucial decisive decisions at the crease, especially with the bat. I remember another knock that's probably going to be forgotten was Zach, I think he got 30, like mid-30s to 40 at Old Trafford against a reverse swinging ball. And, you know, 30s in a test match sometimes, well, doesn't really get noticed, but I thought

his decision-making throughout that whole innings was incredible against Rabada and Norkia with, you know, Ball and Night Mile Now reverse swing ball. But again, it was, you know, He felt like he was always trying to be positive with his movements, with his decision-making, which he actually said, you know, I felt a million dollars, even though he didn't get the runs that he wanted. But, you know, he still felt great out in the middle. And then, yeah, we just sort of, everything we set out to do after that game at Lodz, you know, showed us where we were really at as a team because obviously we managed to win the next two games and take the series. Anyway, 126 for one, four to win.

Yansson's on his way, cruising in, left arm. over the wicket and bowls to crawley, he leans back and hits it for four through the covers. And England have won their sixth test match of the summer. The first time that has happened since 2004. They've won this by nine wickets. And who on earth would have predicted that amongst the wreckage of the winter? To turn things around as they have is really remarkable. They've beaten the world test champions.

They've beaten India in that one-off game. And now they've beaten the team that is the current leader. the World Test Championship and they've won this series 2-1. And then on to Pakistan and questions over whether you can take this approach to Pakistani flat pitches and you had the first test in Royal Pindi and it shows that you absolutely can and will. I think the question will at work against every opposition will probably keep being asked until we play against every opposition. Because what seemed to be the trick of the summer was,

you can't do this against New Zealand. Worked, can't do this against South Africa. It worked and we won the series. And you can't do this against the Indian attack. The too good. You know, it worked again. And then same again in Pakistan, you know, with the pitchers and everything like that.

You know, is it going to work? You know, you have to be patient. You have to like stick in and play for the long haul. But that's not how we wanted to operate when we came out here. Yes, completely different conditions and you know just you sort of have to think completely differently because of the wickets and stuff like that but still just playing with the same mindset just slightly differently because you know just into the conditions but still focusing on what the goal is which is to give yourself the best opportunity to win a test match and obviously the first game was was one of those times where it was you know like right just don't know just sort of. dangle a little carrot to Pakistan and say, you know, here you go. The game's there for you but, you know, are you good enough to come and do it against us with the way in which we want to operate on the test match? Leech again, strides in. Bowls. It's in on the pad of peel. Before we're

looking up, how Wilson gives him out. And Nassim Shah will have to review this. He does. He trapped him on the front foot. Pitching in line. Impact in line. And it's hitting the stumps So you can stay with your decision, Joel England win And signal now By 74 runs Umpire Wilson

Raises the finger And England have won this match In the most thrilling of circumstances The Sun is just dipping behind the water tank England have gambled They've been positive They threw the gauntlet down

And they have won this match by 74 runs on the blandest, flattest pitch you could find. Ingoes Robinson then looking for that one wicket to win and Allie's forward is caught behind. But England have won the series. They've won their second consecutive test match here. They're celebrating. They've won by 26 runs.

And that's a terrific effort to have won their second match here, never been done before. And you have to say, there's two gripping test matches. and Ben Stokes with a huge smile at his face leads his players off we all understand what we've managed to achieve today to come to Pakistan and wins

obviously very very difficult and you know it turned out to be another down to the wire game again so yeah couldn't have obviously gone any better for us in these first two games and it's another great game to be a part of we seem runs in bowls to Duckett

who slashes that for four through point and England have done it they've achieved something here that nobody's ever done England have come to Pakistan and they've won 3-0 and how fitting that the captain Ben Stokes

who's led this turnaround from the front is out there the moment those winning runs were struck free field away from the test cricket you played in the T20 World Cup you hit the winning runs and Wassim is on his way past the umpah

Stokes weights bat raise and heaves into the next side. That's it. England win the T20 World Cup. The ball trickles away towards the boundary. Liam Livingston leaps all over Ben Stokes. And now all England's players come rushing onto the ground as well. That's a famous win. And then mobbing Ben Stokes, who has taken England home here this evening. Not playing in the World Cup's amazing, whatever game you play in. But, you know, getting to the MCG. and knowing you're going to walk out and playing a final was awesome. And knowing that the MCG was going to be full of 96,000 people, and we knew that Pakistan were going to be heavily supported.

So we knew the atmosphere there was going to be amazing. And, yeah, it was obviously like a low-scoring game, but sometimes those low-scoring games are amazing to watch. And obviously, when it got deeper and deeper in our winnings and it was getting sort of tighter and tighter and didn't really know which way it was going to go but yeah it was amazing to be there at the end and see the lads home and to be lifting the trophy

at the end there after because you know five weeks in a tournament like that to walk away saying that you know you've gone all the way and world cup champions is incredible and I've not left Australia too many times with fun memories of playing cricket there so there's one there's one good memory that I can take away from Australia

and winning the T20 World Cup out there. You think of with this Headingley and World Cup, World Cup finals, you seem, there's something in you that just seems to relish the big moment. Is that fair? I don't know. I think it's just look, maybe, be there at the right time, I guess. But yeah, I don't know. I think just, I think every time I go out and, you know, play and represent this country, it's a huge honour and, you know, just because it doesn't mean that any situation or any given time is more important than the other. I guess, I don't know, maybe just when you know what's on the line,

you know, maybe just switches you on a bit more, but just when you know what's at stake, I think maybe just gives you a little bit more, you know, that tunnel vision as to what you know what's on the line. But it's that man Stokes who's kept the calm, cool head when it really mattered, who's finished with 52 not out and he's made sure that England won here with an over despair. There's one thing that all of your teammates have said to me this evening

as long as Ben was out there we knew we'd be fine. I'd rather be out there trying to affect the game than being in the dugout and saying, oh, I wonder what's going to happen. Just finally, how proud are you of this achievement?

Yeah, very, very proud. World Cups, you don't get to win them that often so, yeah, I guess to say to that we've won two now. Pretty special. You're listening to the TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 live