Test Match Special - From The Ashes: Ryan Harris

Episode Date: November 4, 2025

The BBC’s Chief Cricket Reporter Stephan Shemilt speaks to Ryan Harris about his explosive Ashes career.From his own 'ball of the century' dismissing Sir Alastair Cook, being the perfect sidekick to Mitchell Johnson, his injury woes which limited the amount of Tests he played, and whether he'd ever have played for England with his dad being from Leicester.

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Deloitte. Learn how industry leaders in the energy sector have turned complex challenges into competitive advantage. Available now, wherever you listen to podcasts. Hello, I'm Stefan Shemelt, and welcome to From the Ashes. a series of test-match special podcasts with those who've seen, played and lived some incredible Ashes' moments. Here's Broad comes in, bowls, carries, and she's out. And Stuart Broad takes the final wicket

in a dream finale. Broad comes in and bowls to Agar. Agar swings the short ball away. He could be caught. He's out. He's caught in the dead. He's out for 98. A wonderful. Numberful, Dubu comes to an end.

In goes bick up, dashing up and bowls outside the off-stab. He laces it through the offside. He won't go for four. It'll certainly go for one. That's all that Michael Vaughn wants. He goes back for the second. He's got his helmet off. His bat is raised.

And Michael Vaughn scores his first century against Australia. Alice bustles in bowls to him. Oh, he's caught behind. It's wide. He flashed at it and he's walked. The umpire didn't give him out. He walked off. Ah, that's a big wicket, my word.

Of all the bowlers to have taken at least 50 ashes wicked since 1900, only two have a better average than Ryan Harris. Similarly, in the same timeframe, just one has a better strike rate, and that is Mitchell Johnson. While Johnson terrorised England in the ashes of 2013-14, it was Harris who bowled England Captain Alistair Cook with what ESPN Crick Info called the Ball of the century. Sharing the new ball with Johnson during Australia's 5-0 demolition job, Harris has a unique perspective on one of the most devastating Ashes performances of all time. Despite a knee injury that limited his test career, England batter Kevin Peterson called Harris the best Australian pace bowler he ever faced. This is from the Ashes, Ryan Harris.

Ryan, I think the first thing I like asking people when I'm talking about their ashes careers, what's your earliest Ash's memory? When do you remember the ashes being a part of your life or even being aware of it as being a thing? Oh, Farad, I can't put my finger on it exactly, but I mean, growing up, and my dad wasn't necessarily a cricketer,

but we had a lot of sport in our family there, Obviously, English background, one of these brothers actually, I think, tried out for Lester at one stage there, so they're always in the sport. But when, just as a kid, I remember, you know, wanting to sit up, because it was always on reasonably late when it was on in England. So the memories I have are probably more Ashes series in England rather than here. I probably didn't follow it as much here, probably, but I just remember sitting up late at night and watching Alan Bordering, both of them, Graham Gooch. Mike Gatting, all those just legends. And, you know, obviously our guy, Shane Warren. And I just remember as a young kid sitting

and just watching how good the grounds were in England, the game was, and the commentary, you know, it was just a bit old-fashioned cricket. It was unreal to watch. And it's funny how, as I say that, I just, I don't have a lot of recollection of watching Ashes games here. It was just more about watching it in England.

It was just a summer here. The cricket was on. Probably general I was playing or trying to play some cricket. I was pretty young back then but yeah I remember just watching lots of nights of cricket in England it used to be so good to watch your dad

I think I'm right in saying is from Leicester what was that dynamic like then growing up I mean who did the Harris family want to win the ashes you know it's always been Australia though my dad was quite young when he moved out I think he must I think it was around

three or four years old so they moved out like when he was quite young So he, him and his brothers, he's got a, he had a younger brother who's passed away, but who wasn't born, he was born in Australia, and then his two other brothers were slightly older. They were only a couple of years older. So they're all sort of instilled in the Australian, I guess, lifestyle. You know, their mum and dad and my grandfather and grandmother, I don't even know why they

moved out. They came out in the boat. I think they just felt like they needed, wanted a better life or something different. and I'm not exactly sure the reasoning behind it. But now, early doors, I've always had, you know, Australia, it's always been Australia who we've followed. You know, even, yeah, even, I've never really known any of my family to barrack for England. It's always been in Australia, which is quite, quite amazing.

But we don't have a lot of ties back then now. I'm sure there's some family that we probably lost touch a bit with. Well, my father actually, my dad went back. It was a while ago now. I think it was almost, it was a year I retired, 2015, because I was supposed to be. playing. He booked a trip back there with my father or actually and I had to come home, but they still went and had a bit of a drive through, you know, from, they went to Nottingham, they drove down through all the way down to wherever the next test was. I can't remember that

was, but, you know, and went through Leicester and had a good look at it. That was a little bit disappointed, I think, with seeing his old, the old place, but, you know, it was nice for him to see that and where they sort of, you know, where they lived and, yeah, it was good, it was nice. In the early part of your career, before you played for Australia, there was a moment when you thought you were going to go and play county cricket as a local for Sussex. Was there ever any point where you thought, oh, I might become an Englishman, that actually my international future might be with England, or was it always Australia? Probably not. That was a bit of a – that was a mucked-up situation.

You know, we sort of tried using my British passport for a year to try and get a year's – or cricket, because I always wanted to play county cricket, because I had. had that. There was sort of a, well, with what we thought was a rule that we could do that because Mushy, Mushdak Army was playing at Tussook. So we thought there might have been a bit of a way to get around that for a year. And in the end, it was close to going through. Then the last minute, literally Chris Adams was walking out to toss the corn in Hampshire

and the CEO, I come in the name of the CEO who was there, but he come running out and said, no, stop, stop. Ryan can't play. He's a next second overseas. Obviously, he ran on that, I went overseas. sort of dented that stint. I went over there and trained for a month, had a bit of a pre-season with him,

which was fantastic, met some great people. But, yeah, that just sort of went a bit too far that, because I never, the other part of that was as well. That was when I just realized, I was relocating the time I decided to move to Brisbane as well. So it all ended up in a bit of a mess. But there's been a lot of questions, a lot of reports in fact, saying, you know, you almost turned to be to be English.

and I probably I was never going to do that but you know basically almost had to say that I was to play to play a year of county cricket which was as I said it was a very mucked up situation you didn't make your test debut until you were 30 was there a time when you thought that ship had sailed not really because I didn't I didn't really move to Brisbane to play international cricket

I moved to win Sheffield Shields and one day trophies and as I said, you know, Queensland have a knack of just knowing how to win in their sport. It's not like it sounds really, really silly, but the Queensland team I was going to, Andy Bickle was sort of on the back end of his career, and I guess, well, they saw me as a bit of a replacement for him to when he was sort of, I think he played one year or tried to play one year coming back from a shoulder off and it didn't quite work. So I was sort of a replacement for him. So I'd sort of moved up there just to purely to try and win.

you know, trophies. And as it happened, again, I think I was, I think it was 27 or 26, probably 27, about memory 28 when I did that. And then before you knew it, I was, I was, you know, I made my way into the one-day team, played a game where I got called in as a replacement, and Sean Tate didn't come up in the warm-up, so all of a sudden I was playing against South Africa and Hobart. And then I didn't play again for almost 10 or 12 months. So I had an injury in that time.

as well but um you know so i didn't really even then i was i had a taste of it and i felt as though i always thought if i was going to play cricket for australia i'd probably end up playing whiteball cricket you know because i could bowl pretty good bat it okay um definitely lower order but bat it okay and could feel all right so it was more sort of the format and then as i said once things clicked and i got back fit again uh i think i came back from a shoulder just to clean out of my shoulder i sort of it just sort of kept snowballing and you know kept taking wickets got back into this Australian one day team and then from there that sort of forming the one day team I think I took two fifers against Pakistan in a row here and then

we went over to New Zealand and bowled right over there and it sort of got I got picked in that test tour and then I ended up making my debut and test cricket so again it was 30 it was I loved to have been a bit early but I mean I wouldn't have even if I even it was sort of bowling well enough at those times and I was a bit younger I wouldn't have got Anyway, because you've had Gillespie, McGraw and Lee and Bickle and Casparwitz and, you know, all these legends that are great bowlers that are still, that were still playing. I mean, they most, well, McGra retired in 2009, I think, and a couple of them the year or two before that. I played my first one day with Brett Lee, so he was still going, and that was in 2009. So I wouldn't have played, I don't think, but still, you know, again, everyone says to represent any country in any format of sport or, you know,

You know, cricket, it's a dream come true. But to have a bag of grain is a great achievement, you know, and again, something I thought I'd never do. Over the next half an hour or so, we'll talk about your Ash's career. I think that one thing that might come up often is knees. So, I don't know, maybe we should clear that up straight away. You know, what?

Well, there's only the knee. Everyone keeps saying knees. It was only my right knee. Okay. Yeah, that was the reason that was the, the ending, well, that ended my career. I had a dodgy knee that, I goes back to, when I was in high school,

I had a knee operation. I tore a car, meniscus when I was fielding, I was only young, 17, I think I was playing second grade and I fielded the ball. And I had a sort of decent chunk of meniscus repaired. And I had to sort of go quiet for probably about six to eight months. Wallet healed and sort of, you know, worked its way back in and then I reckon about four months in it started filling

eye and I took a big what we call a hangar of AFL footy up someone's back at school and it ripped it again and in the end the doc took out a decent chunk because it was it was you know not ideal but it was it wasn't going to heal again so and so fast forward what's that probably 15 17 years in six, 15 years, the area that ended up causing me to retire was that area where it was over time, just because of the meniscus wasn't there, it just kept wearing away. And the day at Kent, when, you know, I didn't go to the West Indies because my wife were having a baby, so I missed that to her. So I got myself unbelievably fit. I was the fittest I'd ever been in my career. And then went over and had a couple of training sessions and was

bowling well before I left, Bold of February and got to that game in Kent, and there was a ball that I bowled that I felt a bit of a click in my knee. And I had a lot of different cracks and clunks and things in my knee, but this just felt a little bit different. It was sort of the inside of my knee, the joint. And I sort of went off and saw the physio, Alex Cantouris, who looked after me so well,

and it pointed me in the right direction of great medical advice. he just did a couple of knee tests that he'd done before and I couldn't sort of get the pain so I thought oh maybe it's okay and I went back out and bowled and I actually bowled absolute junk up until then I went back out and finally worked out because I hadn't bowled in a game for a while that I bowled pretty well the last six overs the game finished and then I went off to London to get a scan on my knee and the boys were and then I met them back in Essex and I had to play that game to try and play the first test because I was I'd been out of for a while

and in the end we got the scan back in my net to actually crack the top of my tibia. So I had a bit of pain there, but it wasn't, it wasn't anything, well, in that, at that period of time, even when I bowed on, it wasn't sort of anything, anything worse I had before. But as the days went on,

and I tried to bowl the morning of that first, that second tour game at Essex, and I couldn't do it. And once we got the results back, we worked out why? So that was the reason why. That was my troublesome knee the whole, through my whole career. I had it through probably through most of my test career

because I had it sort of the second year. I moved to Queensland, but it was manageable. There were times where I'd bowl on the day's play and it swell up. And it was a bit of a novelty, actually, that I'd go to the, obviously, after a day's play, we'd have a team room at a hotel where we go in and do recovery and physio. And every now and then the doctor had come in and have to withdraw some fluid out of my knee to become a bit of a bit of a

novelty to the boys to come and watch and see how much they could get out just to free it up and it was amazing how it just freed up. So, you know, yeah, so it was just a thing that I managed over the years and to be honest, what happened to that,

what happened that day in Kent could have happened three, four years before, but it just didn't. So it was disappointing because of the state, the, you know, the training and hard work I had done to get to that Asher series and for it to go then after being, you know, the best shape of my life.

That was probably the most disappointing thing. Your first taste of Ash's cricket came in that 2010-11 series when England won. You know, that was a bit of an Australian team in transition and a very, very strong England team. What are your memories of that series as a first taste of Ash's cricket?

We couldn't get England out. The memory I have, it was phenomenal. I also got injured in that series as well I missed the first test where I think we bowled England out quite cheaply and then they batted in the second year one for five hundred and ten or something like that Yeah, yeah, that's right, a double hundred

I missed that game I played in Adelaide where that was just an nightmare with England were just relentless So we had a good team But you like there was a little bit of transitioning there But that idea The recollection of that is we just couldn't get them couldn't get you guys out.

I mean, Cookie was phenomenal as he was through his whole career, but that series just could not. We just couldn't get him. Trotty was unbelievable. Ian Bell, KP, you know,

we just, we could not. We kept, you know, revisiting plans and talking about how we, what are we doing? And we just, we were doing everything pretty right.

It just, they were better, way better. And, and, you know, obviously ended up coming on top, coming out on top.

So, but I ended up breaking my ankle. running into Bowling the Boxing Day test, that was the other shocking thing that I had as well. So I ended up missing, well, the last test in that series as well. But, yeah, that was, I mean, I just, yeah, just remember walking and changing the brakes

and just thinking, what do we have to do to get these bikes out? Because they scored so many runs. And then bowl really well. Jimmy bowled really well. They all bowled really well as well. But you had success. I mean, you took nine wickets at the Wacker

to level the series. So you'd had a taste of Asher's success personally. Bowles to Pryor, who is caught in the gully by Hussie. The ball bounced on him. Pryor looks quizzically at the pitch. It took the splice of the bat and just lobbed in a very good catch by a diving hussy to his right. And Australia, well, it's been obvious since yesterday evening

they were going to win. And five wickets for Ryan Harris. who has rarely established himself in this Australia side now after his knee injury. Yeah, I mean, that was nice to be able to bounce back, especially after Adelaide, and we knew, we thought we knew. Once we got over that Adelaide disappointment, you know, we thought going to Perth, you know, we again, coming to a place, it's a little bit different.

The conditions are here. They're a bit different to the Gabba. You know, Gabba's a bit more slower bounce. We're here. It's fast bounce. and, you know, so we thought we'd have a chance if we can get there, play well there and then get it back on an even kill,

then we'd, you know, going into Melbourne, which we hadn't lost a lot of boxing day test, we'd be a massive chance, but again, we just, we did well here, and we thought the momentum, we managed to crack the armour that, you know, in their batting, and we thought, yeah, we had a bit more momentum going into Melbourne,

but they just did it again, they were just too good. In 10-11, what did you know, what was your personal relationship with Mitchell Johnson and what did you see him go through in that series? Just remind me, that was sort of, that was the time, I guess, where he was struggling with his rhythm, I think. That's right. Yeah, he just, yeah, he was,

I think for the first time his career was probably challenged with what he was trying to do and the ball wasn't coming anywhere near what he would like and just probably, I guess he called it just form. He just, and I guess mentally, I reckon he sort of, I haven't spoken to him for a long time about it, maybe just started second guessing himself as well and what he was doing. And then, I mean, that happens, unfortunately, when there's so much pressure on, you know, he's in there to do what he was in there to do basically what he did in the next year, 13, 14,

in Australia to go in and intimidate and bowl fast. And he couldn't quite get that. And again, the way that England were batting, they have. handled him and he probably wasn't at the top pace that he wanted to be at and maybe his body was a little bit sore as well um you know and then i think not long after that i think he ended up doing a tendon in his toe which in south africa which was almost it almost came in a really good time for him because it just gave him some time out of the game he just needed some time out of the game he was struggling with a couple of things and um he was able to get away for i think it was

for about nine months and and you know with this injury and and and just refresh and you know that that would have been, I think, 11, 12, I think that may have happened because he came back in time for 1314 because he missed the 13 Ashes in in England because they were back to back that year. So, yeah, look, I mean, I've probably never really asked him directly, but, you know,

he sort of touched on it. I think just, you know, the confidence in himself, he's probably second guest, which he never really probably did in his whole career. You mentioned that 2013 Ashes in in the UK because there was obviously a time there was a bit of turmoil around the Australian team,

he's had a bad champions trophy before that there was the tour of India that didn't go well two nil down after the first two tests there was an incident between David Warner and Joe Root in a bar all those things but when Darren Lehman came in as

as coach even though so many things were going against you did you feel like a bit of a corner had been turned even if it wasn't necessarily reflected in the the series score line which ended up

being 3-0 to England Yeah the dynamic definitely changed I mean Mickey Arthur was And that's the other part We had to change a coach as well You know a week out from the first test So and I was actually on that Australia A tour

Getting some overs and games under my belt Which Darren was coach of So I mean It was we didn't We didn't sort of expect that to happen I guess it sort of surprised Well I mean The senior group maybe the leadership group

may have had an inkling that was going on, but that didn't trickle down the rest of the boys. So, you know, after the disappointment of the Champions Trophy, you know, we had, we had some guys come back from there. I think Phil Hughes and Matthew Wade, they came literally that night, I think, after losing that last game and what needed to come and get some time in the middle and some, you know, game time with the Red Bull. So, but once all that happened, I remember, you know, it's like it was yesterday where, you know, Darren disappeared for a couple of hours.

and we were like, you know, where's the coach? Where is he gone? And that was when Brad Haddon, who he was pretty good at working things out, ads, he had a, he thinks a bit different about different things. He sort of said me, I reckon Boof's going to coach us to be coach by the end of the day. So we sort of, but once he started to set that, a few of us started looking around and there was, you know, we had James Sutherland had come to the ground, I think, Pat Howard, who was a high performance manager.

So we all looked around and thought something's going on here. And it did, unfortunately for Mickey. He sort of, you know, got told, I think, the next morning, he was no longer the coach and Darren was appointed straight away. And the first thing, it was a day after the game, I think. Again, it was at Taunton and we actually, might have been, where was that game? Oh, no, it was at Gloucester, I think.

We went straight on the, gone straight on the bus the next morning, basically said goodbye to Mickey because he wasn't coming with us. And then we went to Somerset. We got into the hotel and Buf had this massive meeting. And it was just about bringing, you know, we've got to be together. We've got to be in this together sort of mentality. And he did.

He just brought a bit of fun to it. Bufs a bit of a lyrican. He was well respected by the majority of the team. He played with the field of guys. Michael Clark, you know, Shane Watson, he played with a few of these guys. So they sort of knew what his mentor was. And it was all about having fun, playing for your country and playing hard,

but fair. And that was sort of the change of feeling that he brought into. the group. I mean, I remember the first thing he did is we had a heap of team values that Mickey had done up and it all started with, I will do this, I will do that. And he just basically flicked that straight away and just said, we changed the eye to we. It was all, it was all about us together, not just individual. We're always, obviously, striving for individual success. We have individual roles in the team, but it was all about what are, what am I going to do or what are we going to do for each other? And that was a massive turning point. I think

that brought a group a lot closer together. The TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live. To embrace the impossible requires a vehicle that pushes what's possible. Defender 110 boasts a towing capacity of 3,500 kilograms, a waiting depth of 900 millimeters and a roof load up to 300 kilograms. Learn more at landrover.ca. In the heat of battle, your squad relies on you. Don't let them down.

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Power up at Lenovo.com. of upheaval and you're against a very good and settled England team and you found yourself 2-0 down you didn't play in the first test at Trent Bridge but then you came in for the second test the first test was close and then England won the second test quite convincingly so you're 2-0 down after 2 but actually over the the course of the remaining three test matches there was clear sort of signs of improvement for the australia team you probably would have won at old Trafford had it not rained durham was close again and then there was a funny sort of draw

at the end of the over when it was affected by the weather. You only played four test matches. You took 24 wickets. You were Australia's player of the series. And in comes Harris again. Oh and that's that is Oaks. He nibbled at that

one. There was no appeal. It was a very obvious one off the outside edge. He just pushed with his bat away from his power, Anderson. It was taken there by Haddon and so 313 for nine. and...

That's the fifth wicket for Harris this moment. Harris's fifth wicket, which is terrific. And he really has, hasn't he? He's worked his heart out and it was a brilliant choice to bring him in for this test match. He's someone who doesn't really survive a full five test series. They've got to bring him in when they think he's right.

It's been perfect for him here. And really, he's been responsible for really not a very good England banning display. Both personally and... from a team point of view because you're in that really unusual situation where you're going to go and play an ashes straight away again back in Australia.

Did you feel that actually, look, we've just lost 3-0 and that is a heavy defeat. I think it's one of the heaviest defeats Australia has suffered in a long time. But were you actually taking a weird optimism and confidence back to Australia

because of what you've done in the second part of that series? That's exactly spot on the mentality we had. Again, you look at it on paper and as you said, it was probably one of the worst results. But we thought we were way close. than that. You know, obviously it got close at Trent Bridge, probably closer than it probably should have. We had young Ashton Agar, you know, making those runs. Obviously, we got pretty well

beat at Lords. But then the next three tests we thought as though we were really, really close. We had, you know, the game almost on toast a few times, but then, you know, I think at Durham we were one for 160 chasing 200 and maybe 60 or 250 or whatever it was. And then Brody came on and lit it up and took, you know, four or five quick week. It just was just redacted. So we had, we sort of let ourselves down. We felt in, in hours of games or sessions of games, it lost us that series. And then, you know, as you say, we get to, we get to Old Trafford.

We thought, again, we thought we were on track there. Then the weather came. But so we, what you say, you know, like we were, we felt we were really close, although it was three nil. So when we got back on the plane, you know, we left there really hungry. The test boys did. And knowing that that was coming straight back, It was a great opportunity for us to, you know, I guess revisit, you know, and go back over what had happened, the way we played.

Our plans obviously would change when they come to Australia a little bit with the conditions. But, you know, we sat down and did a lot of research around together. One thing that, that was the return of Mitchell Johnson because he came back in that one day series before everyone else flew back. You played nine tests in a row as well. So the body must have been holding up quite well. Oh, yeah, I mean, again, it had its challenges. The knee was swelling up a little bit at times. But, yeah, you look back at that and it was a great achievement, you know, to be

able to do that. And I think from there on, that's the other part of that, which is from the Ashes. We went straight to South Africa and played another three tests over there, which, and we ended up winning and became number one in the world. That was our sort of goal, long-term goal. But, yeah, I mean, well, I guess we were lucky. With that, a lot of the games didn't go five days. So, you know, when you're taking wickets and, you know, doing what Mitchell does or did

and you're able to get off your feet and have that extra day's rest. It just, it was a massive help, especially, you know, for me who, my body was getting a bit sore and tired at times and the knee was sort of growling a bit. So having that extra time off was definitely help. And that allowed me or allowed us to get through, completely at the team, same team, five tests in a row, which I don't know when the last time that's happened. It doesn't happen very often.

You talked about, I think it's quite a famous. conversation actually. I think it's been mentioned before that Michael Clark took you fast bowlers aside and said you're the guys that are going to win this series for us. But you mentioned specifically about targeting Alistairc as the England captain and someone who scored a lot

of runs in 2010-11. Harris bustles in Bulls to him. Oh, he's caught behind. It's wide. He flashed at it and he's walked the umpire didn't give him out. He walked off and that's a big wicket, my word. Poor shot, at least from this angle.

it did look very wide indeed and he reached for it it was pushed across him and I mean I have to say the replay possibly makes it look even worse and Haddon took that to his left in front of first slip and it's another wicket for Harris he's taken both so far

the openers are gone England lead by 10 they're effectively 10 for 2 with cookout for 22 what does targeting a particular batter look like because naturally you want to get everyone out and you want to knock everyone over cheaply So what's the difference?

It was just trying to stop him from not giving anything to score and, you know, being open to communication around, you know, what period of the game were in or, you know, but just having really good plans to him and stop him from scoring and then, you know, making sure that we could put pressure on. So again, Pete, Pete Sill and I, to be able to come in and, you know, not letting him score and then Mitchell will be able to come in and bounce him or do whatever he had to do.

And obviously, that was a plan to most of them. the players, as you say, but we just sort of felt, again, from that 2010-11, how dominant he was, if we could cut that down, then, again, they wouldn't have that platform and that foundation that he was so good at setting. You know, so yeah, you're right. We had differently great plans for all the other players as well. But again, we just felt as though he was a big player for them. And again, if we cut that off, someone else is going to have to do it under pressure in the conditions that um well the tour before they were pretty good in but um you know we didn't have mitch bowling like that you know in that last tour and and and we're able to

you know build really good pressure around about around well alistair but then most of their batters as well first test match the cauldron of the gab are obviously a place that you know really well from having you know your time with with queensland um australia 295 all out having been 132 for 6 runs from Brad Haddon and Mitchell Johnson that would become a theme of the series England had got to 82 for 2 and then were 136 all out

in the first innings with the first I don't know flash of what Mitchell Johnson was going to do and Australia went on to win the test match by 381 runs England were blown away in the second innings one that was made famous for Michael Clark's altercation, the words that he said to James Anderson, you know, words that I can't repeat on a podcast on the BBC.

But the aggression that you showed, and particularly the aggression that Michael showed, and maybe showing the Australian public aside to him that they hadn't seen before, what did that show to England and to the supporters, actually, what this team was capable of when you hadn't tasted Asher's success for quite a long time. Yeah, I mean, that was probably surprised

a few of the players as well. Just, you know, he wasn't, he was never really, I didn't know Michael to be sort of that. It was very vocal around the team, but not necessarily towards opposition players like that. And I think Jimmy got under the skin of most players at times. And, you know, I think,

I'm just trying to think of that scenario. George Bailey must have, I can't remember, I think he told me. one day but he said something but it was more of uh so george bailey was fielded he was at short leg jimmy jimmy anderson was batting and mitchell johnson was was bowling and michael clark comes to step in between bailey and anderson because jimmy stepped he was about to face up and then jimmy stepped the way back to short leg and started talking to george he got quite close to him and i think i don't remember exactly what it was but i think

george said it wasn't a going to him it was it was something well what he thought was he was trying to be complimentary, like, you know, he's bowling fast, so make sure he protect this or whatever. I don't even know what it was, but it was, I don't think it was an absolute, just a shot at Jimmy. And it just got misconstrued because what did happen that after now. I remember that quite clearly as well, is the crowd, everyone just got in the back of what we were doing and the crowd were, it was so loud of the gabber.

It was just phenomenal because of what Mitchell had been just sort of done. So I'm not sure. Obviously, I think Jimmy misunderstood what was said. And then obviously, yeah, Michael came in, and again, I'm away. I'm mid-off, I think I was. I might have been fine legs. I didn't know exactly what was going on. But I guess, you know, it was how we wanted to play that way.

We wanted to be aggressive, but not. I don't think there was a lot of sledging. I don't recall, and you might have to speak the English place about that. I don't think there was a lot of sledging going on. It was more, there would have been a couple of words here and there. But we didn't go in. We wanted to be aggressive, but we didn't have a plan to go in. say, right, we're going to go hard at cookie with verbal stuff,

or we're going to go, you know, there were players that we actually sat back and went, like, KP, for instance, he wouldn't chat to him. He just don't talk to him when he bats because it switches him on and he gets in the contest. So, you know, sometimes here we'd come in and like to talk, but we just said, no, we're not talk. So we didn't exactly have that. It was just, we just wanted to be aggressive. If anything popped up like that, which was, again, it was probably misconstrued a little

bit that Michael, I think, came into whatever said, what he wanted to do, and then it just got caught on the mic and that was it and again we sort of like you know saw him i think he pointed the finger from from afar it was just like mate just hurry out and face up but then when we heard the words everyone was like oh that's that's that's that's cool showing what he could what he's he you know we knew he was in it with us obviously been the captain but that was a little bit of a shot but i mean that was just like right we're we're on here and we're going to do everything that we can not not try and break his arm but um you know we're we're we're in a fight here and we're going to back him up as well as much as he was backing us up.

You won that test match and afterwards David Warner made some comments about Jonathan Trott and Jonathan Trott eventually left the tour and David Warner actually subsequently apologised for what he said because Warner himself accepted that he'd probably overstepped the line because of what Jonathan Trott was going through. But the reason I raised that is because after what had happened at the Gabber did you feel like you had England on the run already? We felt if Mitch could do that and we bowled like that, we definitely put pressure on.

I don't think we walked away from there thinking that we were definitely on top of England. I mean, as you say, our batting probably wasn't up to scratch in a couple of those games. And as just, you know, with Haddon Mitch, who scored runs very helpful runs in the middle order, lower order at times, especially in that game. but we knew that if we could keep the pressure on and bowl as we did, then we thought we'd, yeah, no doubt put them under pressure. But, yeah, I know we definitely didn't walk away from knowing how they had played previously that it could happen, again, that they could come out and take time to regroup

and, you know, come out and bat well. And so that was always spoken about. Let's enjoy this and reassess and where we're at. But again, if we had, if we kept bowling like we did, then we're going to put them under under huge pressure. So, yeah, I don't think you ever walk away in a test series like that, even though it was convincing in the end, you never think, oh, we've got them here, we're going to walk you through the next two or three or four.

You know, we never did that. We always, you know, we always kept each other in check to make sure that we're, you know, concentrating, not looking, what, weren't looking too far ahead and making sure. we knew what our role was and we executed and played our role. But you did bowl like that again and Mitchell Johnson did bowl like that again. And this time on quite a slow Adelaide pitch, he took seven for 40 in the second test. Australia won by 218 runs. And by this stage it's becoming obvious that Mitchell Johnson is going to become a huge factor.

an eventually almost a deciding factor in the series. So the thing I want to ask you is, what was it like? What was it like opening the bowling with him? Did you talk much? Were you, were you mates? You know, you said you fielded at mid-off quite a lot. What were those conversations like? Yeah, we were really, we were really tall.

We still are. I still speak to Mitch, probably more than Pete. But in that, in the tour of England, the back end Mitch came to that, So we sort of created, you know, started creating the bond rule, and I'd play with him earlier as well. So, and Pete Siddler played a lot with him. So we were really, really tight. And as I said, we, by going back to the Brisbane before that first test after Michael

spoke to us, we talk a lot about and spent a lot of time together, it was sort of bowlers and then batters that, you know, do their own thing and bowlers. Always the way. Yeah, exactly the quicks. And Nate's line, we'd hang out a lot. So we didn't talk cricket all the time. time. We had similar interests in cars and just different things. We had similar interests. So it was easy for us to get on.

But when it came to the cricket stuff, we communicated so well, you know, if I wasn't mid on, mid off to Pete or to Mitch, then although they were the same with me, we'd always be communicating on what our plan was. And, you know, it was just a great, it was sort of a team and then a team. We did talk to the other guys a little bit, but we were just so focused on on on um on what we had to do but as i said before standing at mid on mid off you know i was down at um i was down at mid of fine league a couple of times and i was bowling i took a couple of catches that you know the ball came to be so fast you know it's it's you know when you're playing stadiums like that especially adelaide you know you got to try and pick the ball up and it was

coming so fast and and you know so being being next to him and watching and you know he was just so determined and so clear on what he was doing um you know as i said it was it was quite an amazing thing to watch and to see how he was getting wickets, whether it was with a short ball or short ball, then a four ball, hitting the stumps. It was just working. We took some really good catches, our cord and took some really good catches in that as well in that series that really helped. But, you know, it was the old traditional set them up.

So he bowled a short one and then pitch it up or vice versa. It was just whatever he did, it just worked. And then as I said, before, you know, Pete and I just, we weren't trying to bowl fast. We were just trying to do what we do, do what we do. most best and you know as I said we picked up a few wickets for it because I know they were coming after us because they couldn't get Mitch away so um you know that that was the sort of chat we were having we just as I said Pete and I just knew what we had to do in our role what was

Mitchell like away from cricket during that series you know how did he take it in his stride because I think I'm right saying he's got quite a lot of interests outside of the game as well I don't think cricket's necessarily the be all and end all to him so how was he like how Was he in the dressing room? Did he get away? Did he know he was bowling the speed of light? I mean, we had the moustache that he smiled through when he looked particularly sinister.

How did all that sit with him? I think, again, he spot on when you said that. Obviously, he had that big break, which I think made him realise that cricket wasn't the only thing. You know, he did have, again, he liked cars. He had a heap of different interests. He had business interests outside. And, you know, I think he's, oh, to try to remember,

remember how he had a young daughter by then. I think Rubica was only quite young then, so that was... I'm going to ask you about that in a second, because I think that's important, but keep going. You had a bit of a distraction around that. I'm pretty sure she was there then, I think. You know, she would have been only very young. But so family, you know, again, I think he just sort of worked out that putting everything

into cricket wasn't healthy for him, and any, you know, once he'd had that time off, spent time with family back home in Perth and, you know, again, worked that out. He came back refreshed it. During the series, he was just a normal bloke. We're all having fun. Obviously, we're playing some good cricket. There was a massive hype around, as it is, you know, as it is with Ashes series here and obviously in England.

But he just, you know, being around him was great, being around the whole squad, everyone got on so well. But again, he wasn't, I don't know, it's hard to explain. He just wasn't all out cricket. You could just say that he was, he worked out what it was to make him happy or the combination that he needed to make him play good cricket and be where he needed to be with his body, with his game, and then he could switch off, whereas before he probably couldn't do that.

You mentioned Mitchell's daughter, I think that's important because in 10-11, he was obviously taunted by a song from the Barmy Army, which he knew was coming. He bowls to the left, he bowls to the right. And his counter to that was to sing, in his head, let it go from Frozen. there you go did you know that

probably did I've got a very bad memory but I don't recall that happening but that again he obviously spent time with you know whether it be psychologists

or whoever it was to find a way to to combat that because that did hurt him that did get to him and you know even he would say now I reckon that again that was

because he was so intense in it that every little thing that someone would say about him he was a fiery sort of he was pretty fiery as well that he just let it get to him and then that would

that would detract from what he was trying to do on the ground to you know he'd be thinking about all this and stuff so yeah that's the thing I do remember that quite a funny way

to get over it but then it worked and he certainly did let it go the third test then at the Wacker you know a ground where you'd had ash its success previously the ashes is there to be

won on this occasion and what an occasion from an Australia point of view George Bailey takes 28 off one James Anderson over England is a notional an unfathomable 504 just to save the test and to save the ashes and then from your point of view

the delivery to Alistair Cook and the first ball that Crick info have called the Ball of the Century And when you look at replays, it almost seems to swing twice, swings into him, hits the service, swings away from him, kisses the top of the off stump, one of the great balls. Well, here we go, then the start of England's innings.

Oh, he bought a first ball. Pucks gone. Harris is three of England and North for one. And Australia are jubilant. Pook's 100 test match is over. and so surely are England's hopes of attaining the ashes. Off he goes. England are not for one.

Would you believe it? I was just thinking then, Simon. The worst possible start here would be to lose early wickets. That there swung in, straight and just hit the top of off-stop. It was not a bad first ball to get, but just when you think it can't get any worse for England, Alistaircourt goes first ball. That looked an absolute beauty, first up.

from Harris. The wonder there was that celebration. Could be over before lunch. Wonderful delivery first up to cook. He's clipping the top of off stump. What is your memory of that? Yeah, that was a great, I mean, it was a great, I mean, everyone's,

a lot of people have come to me and said, they ask that question, how do you swing the ball after it bounces? Like, that's a because you don't. You just, you just, all I try to do is set the seam up and then hopefully it would swing. sometimes it would sometimes I wouldn't so that was interesting you know just a quick story around that I mean that that day was an amazing day because I remember a lot of us

was so nervous knowing what that day could bring I'm pretty sure it was that day it finished it might have been the next morning but one of those mornings where we I'd woken up quite early quite and not slept a lot that night and I never really had a lot of dramas doing that because obviously a lot of overs but I went down to the team room which we had at about 5.30 thinking I get an early coughing. There was like seven or eight players down there because they were so nervous as well on what we're about to achieve potentially. But I mean, going back to that ball, I think that one in the next day we finish the next day. But going to that, going back to that ball, it was interesting because I sort of, I was at

that point when my body was hurting quite a bit, you know, and from first innings to second innings. And I didn't, what I recall, I didn't really, I didn't think I took the first over very often. For some reason I was, I was doing it this time. And I remember running into a ball with no word of a line. I only told this story the other day that my body was that sore and halfway through or three quarters way through my run up, the voice in my head just said, stop because I was, again, the reason why I wasn't on the first over, because the first few balls the over, I'd float up and they'd be hit for, so I'd go for six, eight, ten, if not worse. So the decision, I don't even know why it was. But anyway, so three,

Three horseway through, I was like, stop, and I didn't. I don't know why I didn't. And then that came out. It came out. It just felt good. And obviously, yeah, it sort of swung away and then, you know, nipped away and the rest of history. But, I mean, again, it was to the start, to the start of that innings, again, we weren't, we knew England could bat well. I think Stokes got 100 in that innings as well.

I think, who else? Matt Pryor, I think batted really well in that in that second inning. To be able to get cookie out the way early, that was just another big bonus to be able to do that because, again, we knew what he was capable of. But, you know, I look back at it. And, you know, it's funny, I'm in Perth now because we've got a Sheffield Chill game tomorrow.

And I didn't do it this time, but I came here last year. And the boys, the guys like coached give me a bit of stick about it, but I actually went and put a ball on the spot where I thought it were smucked around for a pitch. They enjoyed that. So it's always nice coming back to, Obviously, the whack-it-down, not an international venue,

but it's always nice coming back to it. Having that success, that ball a little bit, but it's more about it's where we won the Ashes, and that's the important thing to me. Crick Info called it the ball of the century. How often do you get asked about it? How often do you, it must be quite a lot. Every year, my birthday was a few weeks ago, it comes up,

and there's people posted it's always a reminder. And now my kids are getting up. My kids, my little boy, especially, gets any, you know, gets friends at school that see it and they ask him about it he has no clue he's not really into cricket this yet

but you know it's it's a nice thing ball of the century again it's what people want to label it it's not for me it's it was my job and that's what I had to do and again you always want to try and bowl you know beautiful nice

balls like that but again I mean I felt as though I bowed a few other good ones in my career as well but you know obviously that one keeps getting brought up again which is a nice So a little reminder, again, on that such an important test match that we were playing that day.

You talked about the nerves and how important it was to win back the ashes and you've done it. I think it was the first time in more than 1,500 days that Australia could say they were the ashes holders. What were the celebrations like? Yeah, again, I got reminded of, I wrote a stupid tweet when I was in Perth after having a few beers about the casino,

which I got reminded of only yesterday, again, my players brought that up. But we did, we did celebrate it pretty well. And, you know, I remember we ended up, Shane Warren, I think, was going to fly out back to Melbourne that night. And he ended up staying and we ended up having a party in his villa, which was quite cool. What's that like? It was brilliant. It was unreal. We had everyone there.

There was only, with the way our test here, a lot of the girls didn't come to Perth because it was too far away. And so we had a couple of girls there, but it was just more the boys. And then, you know, we just the players and staff. and we just had a great celebration. But obviously, again, once we got through that, it was amazing how we enjoyed ourselves, but once we got on the plane the next day, got to Melbourne, it was like, right,

how are we going to win this 5-0? That was the thing we started thinking about. We're not going to give up an inch here. We're going to do this the way we want to do it. And, you know, again, had a really good night, but then the focus turned pretty quickly once we hit Melbourne. You go to Sydney, 4-0 up, the chance to win

5-0 and you personally you save your best to the last. You take eight wickets in the match including the last wicket that have buoyed ranking what was that like for you personally to put in

that performance when the whitewash is on the line and to have that moment that winning moment to be honest with you I don't reckon on you I'd taken or FIFA in that inning. I don't think I'd sort of, because that was it.

We'd sort of, that was quite an interesting. I think England had probably checked out. I think we went in two and a bit days, was it? Yeah, it's very quick. Lots of debutants in that game and all sorts, lots of upheaval. Yeah, that's right, yeah. So I guess for me it was, yeah, just trying to think back. It was a while ago, obviously.

But it was more about what we've just achieved. It wasn't even, I think it probably wasn't until actually after. when I got presented with the man of the match, so I actually realized I'd taken five. So in the innings, I think it was. So, again, it was just all about what we just achieved as a team was amazing. And then, you know, how are we going to celebrate? That was the best thing.

And, you know, but again, again, I think, you know, as you said, England had changed their team quite a lot by then. There was a little bit about people, as you say, which seems to be when teams come to Australia sometimes, especially the Ashes, it's been, you know, happens a couple of times. And vice versa. When we go there, we've, you know, players retire or coaches in, you know, in their tenure. But, oh, look, yeah, I remember just being a great time.

We had all our families in the round there as well, which was great. It was obviously because there's a New Year's test that, you know, that we have the families around too. So I just remember being a, you know, a great family time. And then we had time with the team just to soak all up and really enjoy each other's company and sort of look back and, you know, what we just achieve. you sang the team song on the pitch straight away that doesn't happen very often that flashed up on tell you

a day I totally forgot about that that was really unusual I don't know I think Lino who leads it we just wanted to take in again because it was pretty busy the crowd was unreal it was loud

and I think it was just let's just take it in here and because we never did that the whole time there was all about doing it later but it was a good little touch it was just again it was a unique thing of what we just

achieved. We talked about how you had got through those nine consecutive ashes tests and went on to play in South Africa where Australia won and you played a crucial role in that. I think you you were struggling to walk but still able to bowl and then you went off and had had more knee surgery and you know you only played a handful more test matches after that South Africa series. You wanted to play in the in the 2015 ashes but you know as we've touched about you your knee broke down again. You had the cracked tibia. How did that feel,

knowing that you weren't going to have another crack at England? Yeah, I mean, it was shattering at the time. It all happened really quickly. I mean, after that, South Africans, the reason I kept pushing through that is, you know, I was definitely, we're all in pain. I think that was probably the hardest test match that I'd ever played. And a few have said to the same.

I think we fielded for 160 overs because, you know, South Africa was so good at, defending. But we got through that. And I knew at the end of that, the reason I kept going and I knew at the end of that, I was having surgery in my knee. So it was all going to be cleaned out and fixed and everything going to be scraped away. So we pushed through. We're all, we're all sore. No doubt about that. But, you know, we're lucky we got the result in because that would have felt like a loss or that would have been a draw. So we're lucky to get through. As I said, that was that sort of put us in number one spot in the world. But, you know, I think

only played, maybe three or four more tests, I think it was against India. I believe that was the last series I played. And, yeah, I mean, as I said, I missed the West Indies because of the birth of our first child. And for me, it was probably, if I can get to England and get through and play well, that might have been a good time to retire. That was sort of in the back of my mind. But then I thought, well, if you go well, and you feel like you're going good, then maybe it might be better to retire at home.

And I think it was New Zealand. I think the tour after all. So I was definitely starting to think more about it I probably saw myself trying to play a bit more state cricket if I was good enough to play franchise cricket but yeah I mean as I said the shape I was in I thought I could definitely you know again play some sort of cricket

but it was probably you know I knew the other thing about that is we had we had some good guys coming through as well we had Patty Cummins and you know Stark's I was going to ask you do you know who replaced you in the squad when you pulled out of the 2015 tour when you were to...

He was never thanked me for that either. But yeah, that was Patty. I remember that. That was South Africa, wasn't it? Firstly, it was South Africa. I came home from the South African tour a couple years before that, and then he replaced me.

Then in that tour, yeah, you're right. So I'd have a passing of the torch almost to some younger guys. Yeah, I mean, it probably was... I just knew I was, again, my knee was... It was getting closer. I just knew that I could, you know, with the surgery that was having done to it, the actual surgery I had after South Africa is the reason why it went

because it allowed my need to be a bit more freely and move freely. And it actually opened, it got me back straightening my leg, which was then putting pressure on the damage area, which wasn't happening because I couldn't bend my leg. So I straightened my leg. So the surgery was great because it relieved a lot of pain, a lot of stuff. but then it actually, you know... No good for fast bowling.

Yeah, it contributed to, you know, putting my knee back into a normal place and then damaging it. So, yeah, look, definitely disappointed. I remember it was such a hard decision. Like, you know, I had a surgeon that had done all the work on it, you know, for a number of years. Tried a couple of different techniques and got me going.

He knew the importance of trying to get as much out of me as possible. So when it happened, I just remember sitting down or going back to the hotel, or shattered, obviously, when I got the result. I sort of knew. And then we rang the surgeon, and he said, look, I've done, we've done as much as we can. I can fix it again,

but it's just going to go again because you've got no protection on it. And so when he said that, because I know that he would, well, I did know that he would do everything he could to get me out there. But when he said that, that was like, that's it. I'm done. I can't do it. But I just, and that was when, yeah, I was a blubbering mess.

I was, you know, I left the ground and went back to the hotel. And then, you know, that night, everyone came, everyone was great. Everyone came down and got around me. But I just remember sitting down with Mitch and Pete. And I said to him, I reckon I can do it again. I just reckon I can do it. And they said, he's spoken to the surgeon. He's obviously told you probably not.

And then they said to me, which really got me, I used to have to take quite a number of, you know, Voltaurans or Panoline forts. And I remember Mitch saying that, mate, I've seen what you have to take to bowl and play. You can't keep doing that because it's going to rip your stomach apart. You're going to have, you know, longer term issues. And I was at that point where every time I bowed, I was in a lot of pain. But I did it because I wanted to. And I remember him saying that.

And I was like, and Pete was the same. Pete Sittle said, that's not great to be going through that. and so I had a bit more of think about it, spoke to my wife and my brother and my dad and just, I had no other opportunity, another option. I had to pull a pin and reluctant as reluctant as I was. I was still, you know, I still, I looked back at it and I played 27 tests more than I thought I was going to play. I wish I had been 50 or 70, but as I said at the beginning of conversation, I never ever thought if I was ever going to play for Australia, it probably wasn't going to be in Red Bull cricket

and I did it 27 times so yeah it was it was decision again it was it was I actually went back to the surgeon again and I just said you're 100% short and he said look we can try and have a go with it but it's going to be long and yeah basically said it that was it so once I got that sort of confirmation it was that was here I think there's a bit of symmetry there isn't that actually that you know it was a conversation with the two guys that you'd achieved your career high with that took the honesty of those two guys

Peter Siddell and Mitchell Johnson for you to go and really reflect on the decision you were making. Yeah and that's how we were. That's how close you were and we cared deeply for each other and they saw what you know I mean

I'm not, it's not about you know every bowl of saw and there's no doubt about that but they saw you know the stuff being taken out of my knee and and how painful that was and, you know, they'd see the scans at times that the physio would pull out and, you know, they'd just see things that they knew I was in pain and how much, you know, it was sometimes a struggle to get up.

But I always, as I said, I wanted to do it because I love what I did. And, you know, I spoke to, you know, a lot of people about it who question me, how did you keep doing it? How did you get injured and then come back? Well, I did it because I wanted to. And that's what we do as athletes. You know, you do, you go through the, hard yards and make those tough decisions and spend hours rehabbing and hours in the gym

because you want to get back to do something that you love so much. And I think I did a talk a couple of weeks ago and spoke about a similar thing. And the reason why, I said, you know, I've bowled the first ball in a boxing day test, you know, for instance, in an Asher series. Like I said, I think I said to him, go and find something that's better than that. You know, like, it's something that you dream of doing. You have every opportunity to do it. You try and do everything you can to do it.

And I did. And I got everything out of my body that I could. And then it just, yeah, as I said, what happened that day in Kent could have happened four years before and I wouldn't have had half the opportunity, or more than half the opportunity to do it. So I loved every minute of it. Of course, we wanted to do it for longer.

But, you know, it is what it is. And I had a great career. Just as a final thought. you played 27 tests and took 113 wickets of those 27 12 of them were ashes tests and of your 113 wickets 57 of them were ashes wickets so more than half of your test wickets were an ash's test of bowlers who have taken 50 ashes wickets your average is 20.63 since the year 1900 only jim laker and rodney hogg have a better Ashes average and in the same time period

only Mitchell Johnson, funnily enough, has a better strike rate than yours of 43.3. So you said, you know, you wished you'd played more but what you achieved in that time and what you achieved in Ashes cricket I mean you wouldn't swap that for a longer test career would you? No, not at all. Well, no, not really.

I mean, when you talk about, Yes, I'd love to play more tests, no doubt. But again, when you say that, it always thought when I was, I timed it right that when I wasn't injured, it was an Ashes series. When I did, I played a, what, two and a half series, one away or half and one at home, you know, away and then home again. Again, the dream was watching Asher's cricket to play it as a kid,

and you're right. I wouldn't. I mean, that when you go through, I don't look at stats and records like that. But, yeah, when you look at that, it was, as I said, I had a great career. I loved every minute of it. Yeah, we'd love to play 70 or 50, but again, what I did, as I said, I got the most out of what I did and had a bit of an impact as well along the way, which is, again, reason why you do it with your team.

And we did that. We had a great time through that period. A tough time in 2010, tough time in 2013, but we're able to rectify it. And I guess that's the only disappointing thing is that going back to 2015. That was the tour that we thought we were going to hopefully win it. But it didn't happen. Then comes Harris, and he bowls. And that's Chip back at him and Corton Bowled.

A really tame end to Bresden's innings. It's been a fine innings of 45. Harris takes his seventh wicket and President walks off swinging his bat in disgust. It's his test best. Well bowled Harris. He's been really after England today He's harried them, he's bowed fast That was From the Ashes

You can read more about Ryan Harris's role in the 2013-14 series on the BBC Sport website and app Previous episodes of From The Ashes have featured Stuart Broad and Michael Vaughn And you can find those on BBC Sounds Make sure you're subscribed

to the Test Match special podcast So you get a notification Every time we upload We'll be bringing you daily podcasts from Australia during the ashes this winter. That's it for now. We'll speak to you next time. Welcome to the team behind the team,

a new podcast series in partnership with the Open University, where we'll be showcasing the people, the tools and the techniques to help athletes and teams reach elite level. Like all elite sports, it's a pyramid and everybody's trying to get to the top. It's not just. my vision. This is shared vision among

the team. What is this? This is not the way I see the game. The team behind the team with Katie Smith. In partnership with the Open University. Listen on BBC Sounds. In the heat of battle, your squad relies on you. Don't let them down. Unlock Elite Gaming Tech at Lenovo.com.

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