Test Match Special - Good Pace for Radio Ep 6: Bye from UAE and the most popular man in English cricket

Episode Date: November 13, 2021

Tymal and Woody reflect on England's T20 World Cup journey coming to an end at the semi-final stage. We get the lowdown on being drug tested and reveal what Eoin Morgan said in the team meeting post-match. Special guest Mark Saxby, AKA the most popular man in English cricket, joins the pod to chat his 15 years working with the squad. He's the masseur, unofficial DJ, and a leader on team culture.

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Mills sprints in, very full, in the air and court. A wicket for Tumal Mills. Wood balls and he's yorked him. Exceptional pace from Mark Wood. Good pace for radio. Inside England's World Cup bubble with Tammal Mills and Mark Woods. Welcome back to the sixth, and unfortunately final episode of Good Pace for Radio with me, Tammal Mills.

And me, sad Mark Wood. Yeah, mate, it's over. It's strange to say, isn't it? Obviously, it's been a whirlwind few weeks and then, yeah, the way that the game ended. And then the way that the match of the podcast. Everything. The podcast is obviously just as emotional. But, yeah, obviously, we'll dive into it in a little bit and obviously in more detail.

We'll also look back at the tournament as a whole. And we'll also, we've sat down with player support coach, Mark Saxby. One of the great men, one of the most loved men in English cricket, really, if anybody that knows him. So we sat down and had a really good chat with Sax, so we'll hear from him as well. But yeah, we'll get into the semi-final. It probably got interesting, we probably have two slightly different views on it, obviously, because you were out there in the middle playing, whereas I was sat in the dugout watching, which was really tough. how did you find the game mate um i don't know it was it was strange to start with obviously

new zealand swung the ball early on didn't they yeah so when you're watching as an opposition so you're thinking well it might swing for us and then in that case we've got you know chris walks who was great with the new ball he swings at both ways so when we saw when we first started i thought oh this might be quite tricky um could be you know a tough battle but then we seem to get into it a little bit and it was a bit of a strange affair it was like a bit too to and fro like I felt like you know by the end we had a good grasp more did really well

um all we're going into did you think that were you happy with what we got one six six yeah no I was happy yeah I was happy I thought we could defend that and you know it was a total worth I felt you know

it might be hard at times but I I would have backed us to defend it I think it's just more at the end of the match like I just felt I tell you what I was really disappointed with actually I was one of the drug test does so I had to get so you just lost the semi-final and I like I'm obviously sweating a lot because I've been bowling and feeling and then the guy

comes here are you you're done for drugs so because we're in COVID times I wasn't actually allowed in the dressing room for a little bit afterwards I had to like stay on the that's rubbish isn't it the tent by the thing for a little bit then I sort of convince him saying look can at least just go into the little because we have a dress room don't you and then you have like a like a dining area yeah then you go out on the field and so I was like can we at least just go sitting the down area because I don't want to sit outside with the New Zealand fans hurling abuse at us

for the next hour so yeah it was just that was frustrating at the end of the game and I remember just feeling like it was weird it was like a sort of missed opportunity kind of thing where it was like we've got such a good side I know we're missing key players as well but like we've got such a good side

it was just like I was almost sure that we were going to do it again like I don't know why I thought that I just I was almost sure that you know we've got such a good side we've started the tournament so well that we were going to do it and I think the game was just I was bowling obviously and we have that 10 over break don't you why you have the drinks and about halfway through I thought right come on we we finish well here and we've got this in

the bag comfortably if we if we do well but it just wasn't to be was it I mean I mean the first over I came back on one for 15 a couple of good shots a couple of where you think it's just going over the way to keep out maybe a change of luck you know Nisham came in and played that knock and then if you look at the Pakistan-Australia game

it was almost identical to our game where you're thinking you know Pakistan I've got this in the bag then Australia weighed and Stoyner's come out and smash it

Nisham just seemed to clear the road I mean there was little things wasn't that where it just went over the boundary Johnny Catch just touches the rope CJ pushes one back in so if they're just like a couple of metres away

we take a catch it changes the game and then little things like it wax from the air and it just lands short so it just seemed to be like you look back now and I didn't think this in the game

but you look back now and you think I could have just little things if they've just gone your way and the fine margins in 2020 it can just be totally different and I just feel I don't know for two or three days

I felt so flat yeah yeah it was difficult and I say from my side watching on the sideline first of all there's really good support wasn't it because considering Abu Dhabi is not the most atmospheric ground obviously you have the big stand behind

and you have like a smaller sand at the other end and then grass banks It was really loud, wasn't it? Yeah, it was good. We had a lot of support. A lot of the British support in, which was really cool. To we felt, a lot of New Zealand support as well.

Yeah. So, yeah, it was a good atmosphere. I thought we batted well. Mowe did a really good job, kind of got us to a score where, I know, at half time, I was confident that we're going to go out there and defend it. I don't think that's an excuse or anything that we can really say. I think it was, it looked like it swung for them early on. But for us, I think it was still, it was the same pitch. I didn't feel like it changed a lot. We watched how they were bowled.

We thought that, you know, the slow balls, if they were really short, they stood up a little bit and were quite easy to hit. So, slow balls had to be on a good length. And we just thought, having spoke to the baters, that sort of heavy length, sort of waist high, coming through waist high, just over the stumps that was the hardest length of hit if it was a little bit full I had skidded on

which mall I got a couple of cover drives away didn't he and played really nicely so it was halfway like you see I felt like we could do this we can defend this and Wokesy made another great start as well yeah yeah exactly he's you know he's been outstanding

well him and more for the whole competition like at the top have been brilliant haven't it yeah token wickets is so key in T20 cricket and yeah so at the halfway mark i know i was sat i was sat on the bench with um with leam dorson and jay roy and jay roy he rides the you know the the emotion the roller coaster more so than any of the players i thought he was going nuts when we were taking wickets and scoring runs and then when new zealand were on top he was you know down he was still in the

bottle it was tough to sit next to he obviously you know obviously he's gutted as i was um you know personally i found it tough watching that second innings Because especially when it got to the end and it was a close game and, you know, death overs, that's, for me, that's like, that's why I play the game. Like, that's my job in a cricket team. Those are the, those are the occasions that I love being a part of. But it's always, it's always easier when you're not in the game, I feel, because you can take step back and you'll say, well, I might have done this there or I might have done that there. But actually, when you're in the game, it's quite hard to, you're just in that moment, are you, the captain with your own thoughts, the pressure's on. was there anything that you saw from the outside

because sometimes when the lads bring the drinks on I like to see it to the you know yourself Tom Curran or David Willie who's not playing is there anything you're seen is that anything we could do different so was that anything you saw that could have done differently

or is that anything that you picked up on yeah it's a difficult one to answer because ultimately I'm watching the game and trying to imagine what I would be doing if I was out there but what I would do would be different to what I would do or CJ or Waxia or whatever whatever. So it's a difficult question to answer because as I said, I just, I just had that, I almost

wanted to just get my kit on and run out there and bowl. And I felt so helpless being on the sideline. Strap me caught off, Griff, I'm ready. Literally, I wanted nothing more. Steve Griffin, that is, sorry, the physio. I wanted nothing more to be out there, you know, bowling and helping the lads. But yeah, it was a tricky, when, like you say, there are moments in the game that do swing. And momentum technically isn't a real thing. You know, the momentum doesn't exist does it but it obviously mentally it does and those moments that you spoke about earlier those drop catches those near misses the you know the fielding ethics within the boundary and those things go the way of the kiwis and then they they ride that and then you know we miss just fractionally either

way on length or line and they get shots away well just actually said i think we got the wicked was it conway yeah and just pulled us in the huddle and he said come and we need five percent more in the field we need five so that wasn't you know anything in a reflection of the other but it was like we were bit sloppy what throws weren't great into him we you know we weren't backing up as well as it was a little bit more frantic than probably how we usually are yeah and then after that talk like we got the wicket and that chat it seemed to like bring everyone back in again but and like you say it was just fine margins of the game i mean probably for a neutral it might be a great game to watch but it left me feeling really flat and just i just felt rubbish at the end of the end of

and it was just like it hurt a lot actually like to think of it because in my mind I never envisaged we're losing like I truly believe

that we're gonna go on I mean I didn't know if this is a bad reflection on me because we lost the two games I've played but like

I still didn't ever believe that we were we were gonna lose the games yeah I know what you mean and the way that the whole tournament the build up

and then the tournament had gone I think that's a positive for our side though isn't it shows that we've got confidence in our team and what we expect as well

and we expect us We expect that of ourselves, and you're right. The way it did feel like we were building towards a final, didn't it? Not to say that we were complacent or anything, but yeah, it did kind of, and then especially after the first 30 overs of the game, most people would have agreed and that we were on our way. And I think it's important we probably should give, you know, give New Zealand credit. Well, if you flip it, and you look at it from their point of view, how do you see from

their point of view? Yeah, well, they'll be really pleased with how, you know, you talk about in T20 cricket, you know, taking it deep, giving you. yourself a chance because one thing Dawson, J-Roy and I, we were talking about obviously they were actually quite light on batting. They go extra bowler with their side. So they had

Nisham at 6 and Santner at 7. So from our point of view when we were sat on the bench we knew they had to take it deep because they didn't, you know, they don't bat really deep. So credit, you have to give big credit to Daryl Mitchell for the knock that he played. Obviously, opening the batting

through and then hitting his boundaries right at the end when he needed to. Nietzium played his role perfectly, didn't he, coming in and just executing, hitting some proper sixes, you know, there's some decent boundaries out there in Abu Dhabi, and they, you know, cleared them easily. So you have to give them credit there where it's due. But obviously, it doesn't make it any easier on our behalf. Devin Conway, he played a really nice hand. We know he listened to some early episodes of the pod. I don't know if he still is, but I noticed after the game, I noticed, you know, you do your shake of the hands, and he wasn't shaking a hand

with his normal hand. He was reaching across and he's come out he's now going to miss the final because he punched his back too hard when he got out so Dev if you are listening rest up mate I hope it's

Dev if you are listening we promised I would bowl good balls and you would not have for one you hit me over six so I'm not speaking you now that's it it's over yeah so he's gone back on his word

you said after the game also you had drug testing which is so annoying I remember I had it so we won the 100 in the summer and all you want to do is celebrate with the lads I got pulled for drug testing there and then

so you have to go and do all that it takes a good half an hour at least doesn't it to the whole process but after that it was I know I felt like a real spare part in the Justin room it was me and Bilbo me in San Billons

Bilbo San Billons were the two that were chosen for the drugs test and I knew that I was going to be a little while obviously because I've been sweating and stuff he tried to get it done straight away and obviously he didn't produce enough so you had to have like a time out and then go back

whereas in that time that he had the time out I'd get the main done. Yeah, so you've got to, yeah, you've got to... Can't your cheeks as high as you can and that's in. So for people that don't know, obviously, if you, once you get called for drug testing, you get, you get taken off, you fill out all the paperwork and such, and then you get said, okay, do you want to, you know, produce your sample, but basically you have to produce enough, and it's quite a lot, isn't it?

It's a full Tubbsworth, and then they also check to see how diluted it is. If it's too diluted, so you've been drinking too much fluid, it's an invalid sample, and, yeah, you have to meet the criteria as such. so it's a long process as it is but it can be even longer I don't know if PGR producer who's doing this that you might not leave us in

maybe too much detail but I've got to leave the tap on it's only where I can push it out because obviously yeah the drug tester is obviously stood there looking at you in all your glory whilst you're producing the sample but enough on that for now

the dressing room afterwards it was obviously somber it was quiet wasn't for us as I said I obviously didn't play and I didn't know where to be after the game so if everybody's gutted obviously morgue's off doing press uh you know you lads were getting drug tested and everybody else is kind of just just in the changing mostly did you do did you pat people on the back or did you just leave it what did you do you want to

just leave it obviously you say kind of hard lines to everybody as they come off and then obviously the lads that have played obviously like but you've been in the battle with everyone as well haven't you so it's not like but it's not the same when you haven't played like you guys came off the field having lost the game so you obviously gutted and everybody just wants to be, you know, left alone, essentially. So I ended up just taking myself back on kind of, in the dugout, really. Just sat in the dugout for a bit, just because you don't want to be in the way. You do.

You feel like a bit of a spare part. And then eventually, once everybody got back together, Silvers and Morgs both spoke to us. I thought Morgs were brilliantly, actually. It wasn't a case of, like, you know, we're all in it together, no blame game. Absolutely. We know what each other can do. and the things that make this team so good is that we don't stand still.

We've got another T20 World Company has time, which means we've got things to work on, things to get better out. So, you know, everybody's going to keep practicing hard, you know, bring it to the next games. And I think that's the way it's got to be. You know, we're not a team that, you know, likes to stand still. We like to push boundaries.

We like to get better. We like to be inventive, try new things, be positive. So that's something that I think we'll try and do from now, won't we? Yeah, and it was, as you say, and it was almost like, okay, we wrapped all that up, and we got on the bus, went back to the hotel, and that was kind of it. Like, the World Cup was done.

So it was a case of the players that didn't have, that weren't going to the ashes or playing in the T10 tournament. They were flying home. A lot of the families were flying home, literally the next day. So, like, we got back to the hotel at midnight, say, and I came home and my wife was having to pack everything because, again, she didn't, 10 o'clock the next morning, everybody was gone on.

Yeah, 11 o'clock they were leaving. So whilst my daughter's asleep And so she was trying to pack everything So you come back and try and help her The rest of the other than in the bar Just kind of having a drink Because then, yeah, that next day Over kind of half of the people

That we've spent the last five weeks with You know, disappeared And a lot of the families as well, wasn't that? Yeah, so I found that tough So obviously as you say we've had our families here In our own little apartments All the kids have been playing together All the wives have got close

And then literally within the space of 12 hours It had all ended Yeah, so like my wife and daughter left back to england and then you kind of i've stayed on so i'm playing in the t10 tournament that's coming up my my quad rehab's going well so far so i should be should be okay for that um so yeah it's it's empty apartments your your wife and son they left the day after didn't they live yesterday and it's it's tough now isn't it it's horrible it's a horror it's always horrible leaving your family yeah like i had to uh we bought loads of toys for for delphi whilst she was

out here and i had to box them all up i was exactly the same i had to been everything up the apartment. I took them straight down to the kids club because I didn't want to see all her stuff in the apartment because you just miss them even more. It feels quiet and empty. Yeah, so like we're sat in my apartment. Now it's quite, they're very, very lucky,

very spacious apartments now and you really are. I see you haven't taken the post us down of yourself. Yeah, they're front and centre. Above my bed, everything. When I wake up in the morning, I see a poster of myself. Yeah, so everybody's kind of going their separate ways. Now I head over to Abbey Dhabi tomorrow.

You guys are flying to Australia. Yeah, best of all right, man. On Monday. Are you going to be fit for the first game? I should be, yeah. What, I got a week, another week. So a week today is the first game. I was doing some bowling drills yesterday down on the, we got like an astro turf area and a fence.

And I was bowling in credit balls into the fence. I bounced one over the fence. You got to mix your landfew. Practicing my full repertoire. So I'm back bowling. I'll keep building up. I'm back running again. And so far, so good.

haven't had any setbacks but yeah again we should touch on the final Aussie versus New Zealand obviously I assume we're supporting New Zealand so for those of you that don't know so if so the Ashes Boys so Woody Josh

Johnny etc they're all and the coaching staff are flying to Australia or Monday with the Australians you're sharing a plane I just can't have them win that game otherwise it's going to be unbearable it will be unbearable like to be fair if it was the other way around

we'd be just as unbearable I'm sure but you can look at them in the I can say well played and congratulations, but when you're about to head off for an Ashes series against them, the last thing you want is them feeling confident and waving a trophy around in your face before you've even got there. Exactly. So, yeah, so cheering on New Zealand tomorrow.

Yeah. Look, New Zealand, like I mentioned in the podcast, are good all-round side, aren't there? So Australia have a match when I start a team. New Zealand are sort of an all-round side across, you know, all formats of cricket at the minute. So I think, you know, it should be a good, final the only thing that worries is is that australia i've got a good record against new zealand

haven't yeah so you know that that worries me a little bit but it's not in yeah you know new zealand or australia where they're used to those conditions it's over here so um it should be a crack i mean let's fingers cross for dev or celebrity listener devon comway um hopefully your boys can do the business exactly so look we've had some good guests come on and join us uh during this podcast since we've been doing the last four five weeks so we thought we got another one on Mark Saxby, who I mentioned player support coach, was initially the masseur, but has taken a larger role within this team. We spoke to him via Zoom.

He obviously is one of the guys that flew off after that semi-final. So we caught up with Sachs and, yeah, probably give a bit of insight into himself and his role. This is Good Pace for Radio with Tamal Mills and Mark Wood. So I'm pleased to say we're joined by a man. who's been involved with 10 Ashes series. This will be his 10th. He's over 200 test matches under his belt, 2010, T20 World Cup winner

and 2019-50 over-world cup winner. Woody, I'm sure you'll agree. Probably the most liked man in English cricket. Yeah, Mark Saxby. Thanks for joining us, mate. Sacks, how are you? Very well, thank you, T. Thank you very much for that introduction.

I feel very humble, to be quite honestly. with you, very lucky, very grateful to so many people in and outside the game. I work with some brilliant people and have done over the last 16 years, you know, in a great sport. We get to travel, we go to some fascinating countries. You know, we laugh a lot. I feel like I've been truly blessed. So my question, Saxe, is what's it like being home as we're still stuck here and by? What's it like? Well, as you can imagine, I haven't seen the kids and Alison for a you know, maybe close on six weeks. So, yeah, it's fantastic. Thank you very much. I managed to get back and pick the kids up from school yesterday. So I didn't tell them that

was coming back. So they were pretty happy to see me. So, yeah, the weather's different. It's really nice. It's dry. I've got, you know, got the coat on and the woolly hat. So different weather, but it's nice to be home. Thanks. Perfect. All right. We'll get into it then, Zach. So you've been, so you started off as the Massa for the England team back in 2005, a long time ago. I think Pudsey was on his first. Was it a Puddy around then? His first tour, I'm sure Puddy was, Liam Plunkett, was around your first tour.

Is that all right, tax? Yes, a very fresh-faced, Liam. We both went to the wonderful country of Pakistan together. We've still both taught very fondly of that trip, and yeah, there's sensational food, as well as the people, the country, but, you know, the food, I've never had lamb like it since. So you got into it in 2005, obviously, you're still going now, so you're obviously doing something right. How's the role changed from back then maybe to what you're doing now, just in terms of the kind of the hands-on stuff that you're doing? Okay, so I started as the

massage guy, and obviously I'm still doing that. But over the years, the role has evolved and developed. And I guess a couple of years ago, a couple of additional responsibilities were added to my job, those being well-being and team culture. And then how, is that something that did you drive that? Did that naturally kind of just kind of come about? Was it something that you'd always wanted to do? It's, I guess, because I've done additional qualifications during my time and it naturally evolved, I suppose, and through conversations with Raff Brandon and Ashley Giles, there was a space there for further responsibilities, if you like. So Massage kind of provides a natural gateway to that well-being space. I really believe that an elite sporting environment

should be highly challenging, definitely, but also a highly supportive one. And that support comes from all of us, doesn't it, within the group, you know, from staff, players. As you know, unity is a cornerstone of our dressing room culture and well-being is everyone's business, really, to look out for each other.

I'm sure that, obviously, people that are listening, Sacks obviously is someone that's well-respected, well-trusted within the groupies sort of a go between, I guess, between the coaches and the other players, if anyone's got a problem, they tend to go to Sacks. Sacks, if you want to say about the culture now, I'm sure this is very relevant with all the topics at the minute.

What kind of things are you looking to drive forward in our team culture? I mean, we know them, but could you let people know of the type of things that were doing behind the scenes? If you look at character first, you know, character is obviously spoken about a lot, isn't it, in sport. And I think it's beholden on as an organisation, as a group of staff as well, to develop character. So you look at stuff like efforts, resilience, passion, optimism and gratitude, of course, but there are other things like curiosity around learning, also around social intelligence as well. What's happening out there in society? So it's important that we are up to speed with what is going off outside of our sport.

It's very important so that when that day comes when we leave these unbelievable jobs, we will be looking to take a full and active role in society. And you know what we're like in the group. We're very big on difference. We're very big on diversity. We celebrate it. We really value it. We promote it.

And we're very sort of into the history that our badge represents, if you like. So those three. cornerstones being courage, respect, unity, they're very important to us. And, you know, we are getting involved in some really nice educational pieces as well around diversity and difference and topics in our society. So that's some of the stuff we're getting involved in. Well, I guess a significant development over the last couple of years has, be the

topics of racial inequality and social injustice, particularly off the back of the tragic events a couple of summers ago with George Floyd and the light

shone on some uncomfortable truths in our society and in our game and we're doing a lot to correct that. to write the wrongs. So it's, you know, it's a known fact, isn't it, that people in our, a lot of people from black,

Asian, ethnic communities do not enjoy the same relationship with society in terms of opportunities, social privileges and distribution of wealth. And being married to a girl from the Caribbean and having two mixed-race children, And I was very comfortable talking to the players last year about these topics. And those conversations continue. As you both know, we're getting involved in some charities that do some fantastic work with disadvantaged children from very diverse backgrounds.

So that has just started. So as a group, we're becoming a lot more socially conscious. I think there's been a generational shift as well in that area. Your generation, the generation coming through are a lot more socially conscious than mine were at that age. That's for sure. What specifically has kind of happened within the England team, I guess? What are those conversations been themed around? Okay.

So as an organisation, we take any form of discourse. discrimination in society and in our game very seriously and what to like I said what we've done with the charities that that's going that's that's moving along but also in addition to that that you've probably noticed as well and you've worn those t-shirts to totally against any form of discrimination so we want cricket to be a game for everyone don't we that we that's what that's what we're trying to get across one cricket to be a game for everyone I certainly think that you know sacks took the lead on that last year we were we were in the the bubble life and I thought those discussions it wasn't just sacks telling us it was actually

quite healthy that the players were jumping on board how can we help because obviously we want to try and be role models we want to try and help you know even myself coming from a sort of working class background you know I still want to you know I still love helping my local club I still love helping you know I mean the price of kit now is so expensive in it and like in general you just want to give people opportunities and you know when you look back at our world cup winning team you know we had I think the diversity side of things the side that were had and all the different brat grounds actually pulled were pulled into a team that was quite successful not just you know a team from scattered all over the place it was actually

we're all under the same umbrella trying the same stuff I think it actually helped your directing sacks absolutely yeah I mean we I sincerely believe that difference and diversity give give any organization a competitive advantage because you know those shared those different perspectives there's different experiences it gives you a you can see all sides of the mountain instead of one narrow view gives you increased creativity doesn't it we saw that you know we've got we've got we've got we've got we've got we've got moe we've got joffra we've got Trevor Bayliss, we've got diversity and age, nationality,

culture, racial origins. We're blessed, to be quite honest with you. It gives you a higher innovation. Problem solving is that much faster than cognitively similar people, better decision making. You know, you're attractive.

You become irrelevant. You've become very relevant. You know, as a sport, there's a big kids turn on their tele. so an Asian boy or girl can turn on the telly. They see themselves reflected back. A black boy or girl see themselves reflected back. And, you know, relevance is so important.

It's the key to engagement. So we found, didn't we, after doing a lot of research, you know, a lot of good people at Lords produced, with some really good meetings with them. And they, you know, they gave us some hard facts around, you know, the low, participation rate, particularly from the West Indian community. And, you know, we're looking at engaging with the brilliant stuff that the ACE program

are doing. So a few guys are aligned with that. So we're taking a real interest in being very active in that space. We also spoke about kneeling, didn't we, that there was a lot of ambiguity about taking the knee. And I felt that that was important to explain what that was about. You know, it is non-confrontation. It's non-violent. Nealing is about respect and respect, like we said, as big as in our dressing room. We kneel to show concern for somebody that's injured or ill. We kneel to a child's level. I saw you both doing that. In the last few weeks, you both had your family out there. We kneel to pray. We kneel to propose. Some people in our sport have knelt to benighted. It's a, it's a, it's a few weeks. It's a, you know,

it's a respectful act, but it's not submissive, it's not begging, it's not promoting some radical political propaganda, it's out of respect. Yeah, 100% that's, I think really good, yeah, really, really well explained. You mentioned earlier, Sacks, how, look, crickets obviously offered you so much in terms of job satisfaction and life as well. I said you met your wife and obviously the mother of your children whilst on cricket tour with England, quite a famous cricket tour, wasn't it? A few other things went on on.

that trip. You must have seen an awful lot over your time as an England team member. Yes, it has been a wonderful life. And cricket has been incredibly kind to me and so many people within the game. In that particular tour, 2007, yeah, I remember it so well. Was that Fred Lord? Fred Lord trip. It was. It was the, you know, it was that hotel with the wonderful Fred and yeah it was a it was an eventful trip definitely so you think back to 2005 and you think like freddie and all these you know iconic players you've seen some amazing players over your time who have you got anyone in particular who you just love to watch was that anyone who you who you just you put the physio bed down and you would have a look and you'd watch them play is that anyone you

can think of oh my goodness it's so difficult too because you mentioned one person then um you know I don't want to, you know, favour one person, but there have been some brilliant international players as well that I've, you know, I've witnessed as well during that period. But in modern day, you know, I love watching you guys. Adil fascinates me. I think he's a magician, but he does. I suppose, like a lot of people, I used to enjoy when Kev,

when KP was in, you know, on full beam. That was, I've been lucky to watch two or three of his, you know, outstanding innings that one in India and the one in Sri Lanka. But, you know, he couldn't have done that without the support of his teammates and people around him. So, yeah, it is a team game and one which I really love. I wasn't particularly good at it myself, but it's a... Hey, that's not true. On the back of South Africa, I managed to get a couple of runs in South Africa and the team. series. I thought I couldn't hit an all-time low when Sacks bowled me with these legs spin.

And from then on, I just thought, right, that's it. I'm going to try and smack it. The Catalyst. So it's actually up the sacks that I got, that I got some runs. Because his leg spin, when he bowled me in middle stomach, I was like, that's it. Oh, I haven't seen, I've not seen the now infamous Sacks legs spin. I need to see those on the next trip, please, Sacks. Well, let's talk a bit more about kind of the massage side of it. You've obviously, you've been around a lot of players in that time. Is there anybody that jumps out to you, and it might be a difficult question to ask, who do you reckon you've rubbed the most over the last 15 years or so?

I suppose your mind immediately goes to the bowlers. Cricket is a very arduous sport at your level. I mean, because the baller is Davin Milan. Bless him. I suppose Jimmy, I guess over the years, because he started it for me, didn't he, He made his debut at a very young age, and he's still going. What a phenomenal athlete is.

He's our physical version of, I don't know, like a Tom Brady, a Ryan Giggs. He's the way he's so professionally looks after himself. And he would have an interesting view of my massaging, I suppose. He would, if I was to say what my massage day looked like, I think you might disagree completely. He thinks I just go wondering off for a towel. I forget about him. and I can be found eating or sleeping somewhere.

And do you work, well, we obviously know this, but tell, for people listening, you work well as a backroom staff, don't you? You've got like the physio, the doctor yourself. You all communicate the strength and conditioning coach on how to get a play out of that back from injury or prevent injury. Do you want to tell us just a little bit how those conversations work? Yeah, absolutely.

I guess from my perspective, it is about ironing out the creases, assisting recovery with the ultimate aim of enhancing your, performance, you guys. My work sort of harmonises well with the physios, with gruith, with cray, with lagers. And to add a little bit of a context to it, I suppose, you know, the information we capture from the GPS. So a test match player can cover, what, around 50Ks, 7Ks of that is faster than a

treadmill will go. In T20s, players can cover around 7Ks with around 80 acceleration. some like CJ's hitting 33 kilometres an hour. There's seven and nine times your body weight going through, the delivery stride, which you know about Mark. Players lose one and a half litres per hour while they're out there. So you can see how these sort of demands draw on the expertise of other practitioners, like you say, Robin Scottie,

who are brilliant S&C guys. We've got Emma, the nutritionist, so she'll deal with your hydration. She deals with your nutrition to make sure you're ready to go again. And then that brings in conversations with the coaches as well. So we're looking at workloads, what you guys have done during that match. That's all very live information, which gets talked about constantly. Injuries get talked about constantly with, with speed. obviously and the other coaches.

So it's a very integrated, sort of collaborative process. You're the team DJ, aren't you, Sacks? I'll notice every day we get set up, we get into the changing room, you set up your table and the speakers straight out. How does he get the vibrate? You know what I mean? It's a big gym. It's a different vibe every day.

I've noticed that. It's an important role. Have you always had that role, Sacks? I guess I've always loved music. Yeah, I've always loved music. And it's something that's happened. I suppose, really over the years. And I'm fortunate that I've got some guys in the room

are very knowledgeable about their music and they help me up, you know, keep up to date with what playlist to have and stuff like that. So when we go to the Caribbean, you play the Caribbean music, don't you? When we go to South Africa, you've got a few South African tunes going on. So you try and keep it, you try and keep the vibe going, don't you, wherever we are? Mind you, I haven't heard you play Linda's Fawn. I know that one we've played in Durham, like.

I think it's an important part of a dressing room but you're right, you've got to try and get that. You've got to pitch you right, haven't you? But yeah, I'm lucky, you know, Jimmy's a big fan of his music, so he keeps me up to speed with what's going on. Yourself, you're a big fan of the oldest stuff as well. So we have a lot of rock music sometimes.

We have indie, we have reggae, we have disco, all sorts, don't we? So, yeah. Perhaps to wrap it up there, Sacks. But thank you so much for joining us. As you say, you're a massive part of this team. We were supposed to do this interview in person, but as we all know, unfortunately, we got knocked out at the semi-final stage

and everybody then kind of disappeared the next day, didn't they? But no, thank you so much to joining us, Sax. It's a pleasure, as always. Enjoy some time at home with your family, and then you'll be off to join Woody and the Ashes crew in a few weeks, weren't you? Yes, very much looking forward to it. And thank you both for your time.

I really appreciate it. And I wish you all the best. Moving forwards, I look forward to meeting down the road again. Cheers, Sacks. Beautiful. Thanks, Sacks. Good pace for radio. Inside England's World Cup bubble with Tamaul Mills and Mark Woods.

So Woody, obviously, this has come to an end now. You've seen your kind of sights are on the Ashes. How excited are you to get out for Australia? Obviously, it's always a big deal, isn't it? You obviously played an Asher series before. What are your thoughts, mate? Are you looking forward to it? yeah to be honest with you I'm looking forward to getting out of the UAE just because I feel like when I'm on that plane to Australia that's when I can really kick in my mindset there the minute we're still stuck here and it feels like you're a bit in no man's land you're trying to sort of get your head around going to Australia obviously some of the boys are already there but mentally probably still like I mentioned earlier a little bit hurt from the World Cup so it'll be good you know family have left we've lost the World Cup it'll be good to get out of the room out of the hotel yeah and get on that flight Australia where and there's a little bit of

that's, you know, a huge series coming up. So, you know, the Ashes is massive for England and Australia. I both sets of players, but as an Englishman, if you can win in Australia, I mean, that's as good as it gets. So we're doing everything we can to try and win there. Yeah, for sure. And obviously, I'm sure everybody will be supporting at home, and I'm sure you love plenty of English support.

Well, I remember when I was a kid, I used to watch Harmi. So Harmi obviously used to play from Ash and he would play and he had a, you know, that couple of series out there. I remember I staying up really late. Would you watch through the night? Yeah, I watched through the night. As much as I could until I'd fall asleep with the old pillows and blankets on the floor watching the telly and I'd fall asleep on the floor watching.

But, you know, the tours that I used to watch like then, England didn't have that much success. And then, you know, of course, Jimmy's won out there. So his, you know, experience would be invaluable and to have the likes of him, Root, Stokes, Brody. These are top, top class players. How long have you got to get ready? So you've just been in T20 mode for the last five weeks. What's it going to be like getting out to Australia? You're going to have to do a bit of quarantine, I assume.

Yeah, 14 days quarantine, but you can train within those 14 days. Okay, that's good. So you're not trapped in your room. Yeah, so you can leave the room, you can train and then come back to the room. But I'll probably start with maybe five slowballs, then work at a four, then maybe three. Eventually, by the end of the week, I'll maybe just be bowling one. Is it generally, is it something that you're not worried about,

but you're aware of okay I'm going to have to get used to I might have to bowl 15 20 overs in a day here and I've not been doing that yeah yeah exactly right exactly right it's more it's more than workload like can you come back for another spell and produce again can you come back again when it's hot or you're tired or you know can you still in my case can I still you know ramp the pace even when it's yeah it's all right for Rovers doing it because in 2020 that's all you have to do but in test match cricket you could be bowling 12 you could be born 20 you could be born 25 so um it's just trying to gear myself up but there'll be some days in training while have to bowl double spells and things like that just you're some warm-up games playing against the lions aren't you i think yeah and that'll be good you know because usually you can play against a um a side that cricket australia i'll put out and you know sometimes they're really good sides like australia and then other times that can give you like maybe something that you would never ever come up against so um you this way will be well prepared um i think it would be wrong of us to try and use any excuses of like oh we've been in the world

cup so like we've been playing matches so actually uh you're more probably battle ready and i know it's very different but you've still been playing so actually we've had that competitiveness so um it's just a case of getting the numbers up and you know i hate working off computers and spreadsheets and that like but in that in this way for injury and stuff it's better that you're trying you know pull more over us for sure so obviously you can look forward to the ashes every ball will be live on BBC five live sports extra via BBC sounds as always and I guess lastly we've got we've had some great listener questions come in thank you to everybody that's got one more I've got one more

to finish off do you want to read it out yeah it's from Jeanette Dixon thank you so much to mal and Woody oh isn't that nice for the podcast my son and I have loved the inside into the England team will you be able to bring it back at next year's World Cup if you're both in the team oh fingers crossed as you say the first that's the first step isn't it we both need to get reselected it would be good to play together wouldn't it We didn't actually play one warm-up game, didn't we, against New Zealand. And after that, we didn't actually get on the field together. So the very start of the series, we thought we'd have a bit of fun, a bit of a competition,

which one of us would bowl the fastest ball during the competition. And unfortunately, for me, Woody beat me quite comfortably. 94 miles an hour on a couple of occasions, absolutely rapid. And we couldn't quite decide on, well, nobody sent us any cool prizes, unfortunately. We didn't get that far. but I thought from me to you Woody I'll give you one of my famous big red sweat bands so I expect to see you first test at the Gabba

charging headband arm so yeah I'll hand over your prize and we'll make sure we get a photo thank you should we have a handshake yeah thank you thank you thank you I think we both came into this podcast A not really know what we were doing we didn't we didn't know how it would work and even with a headband yeah so yeah we've we came into this not really know what we're doing but the laugh, bit of a joke, but I think we've, you know, we've both enjoyed it. It's been a,

loved it, man. It's been a big, big success, I think. So, yeah, thank you to everybody that's, you know, listened and got in touch. Personally, just, yeah, thank you to everybody for, for the support and well wishes that I had during the, during the tournament, especially when I got injured, it meant a lot. But, yeah, fingers crossed, we can, we can reunite next year in, in Australia and, and do it all again. Yep, I've loved it. You know, I think it's been, it's felt, you know, like we've just been having a chat. together. I mean, this is how we would normally chat with each other anyway, isn't it?

Exactly. It's been, hopefully you've enjoyed listening. Again, thank you so much for the support back home. All the players have felt it. We are sorry we couldn't go all the way, but we hope we've done you proud. And, you know, hopefully next year in Australia for the 2020, we can go even further and win another trophy. Definitely. So as I said earlier, during the ashes, you'll hear every ball via BBC 5 Live Sports Extern, BBC Sounds.

and also keep an eye on the TMS podcast feed for Project Ashes, a mini-series, documenting England's behind-the-scenes preparation for the Ashes. And for the last time, goodbye. Goodbye. Cheers, everybody. Inside England's World Cup bubble, this is Good Pace for Radio with Tamar Mills and Mark Woods. Match of the Day. Top Ten Podcasts.

Gary Lineke here to bring you a little message. Match of the Day, top ten podcast. back once again exclusively on BBC Sounds. It's too late for me now, man, I don't know, yeah, it's too late. I thought I was going to get some more dates on match of the day then. Yes, myself, Alan, and the busiest man in football punditry, Micah Richards, return for series five. He was never going to Man City.

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