Test Match Special - Has year six of the The Hundred been a success?

Episode Date: August 14, 2026

We hear from two men at the top of the The Hundred - ECB CEO Richard Gould and Tournament Director Vikram Bannerjee - on whether this year transitional tournament has gone to plan. Plus, Steven Finn and Alex Hartley offer their thoughts.

You're listening to the TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live. Hello, welcome to the Test Match Special podcast. This is Henry Moran, as the 100 heads towards its conclusion in year six. It's been a very different looking tournament this year. And on this edition of the podcast, we'll be hearing from two of the senior figures in charge of making it all happen. Shortly, Richard Gould, the ECB CEO, will be bringing me his thoughts about, the competition and also some wider issues around the English game.

But first, let's hear from the tournament director, Vikram Banerjee. I began by asking him for his thoughts on this year's competition. I think it absolutely has been a better edition than the last. It's been one of the best in my opinion. First and foremost, the cricket on field is unbelievable. And so many memories, whether that's Tim David's catch, that then wasn't the best bit of field, even in that innings, you know, Brevis's no looks six, Phoebe Litchfield scoring the fastest 50.

There's been some unbelievable bits of cricket and the quality now is, you know, the second to the IPL, I think by a clear distance in both men's own women's. But we've also had great engagement, great building of fandom, whether it's from the kind of the shirts and the giveaways and Manchester and Leeds, which has seen people wear them not just at the cricket, but I've seen them in Leeds City Centre or Cardiff or wherever it may be. Our broadcast numbers are looking good. our audiences following us online are all doing some great, great numbers.

So we're growing, we're doing great stuff. So I think it has been our best. So why crowd numbers down? Well, I think overall our engagement and our fandom is up and up quite considerably. But what does that mean? So if you can, crowd numbers are one thing where we're broadly flat. We've had a really good momentum over the last couple of years, a couple of weeks, sorry. So we're now broadly flat, but it's not the only measure of engagement and fandom of this tournament.

There are loads more people watching at home on their tellies. There are loads more people watching on their iPhones and iPads and all the other tablets that you can have. So engagement of the tournament across the globe, fandom of the tournament and the teams is shooting up and doing really well. Has it been unqualified success this year? I think there are every year there are learnings that you take. Every year we want to get better, we want to improve, we want to get bigger, we want to get bigger, we want to get bigger and this year's no different the amount of change that's happened behind the scenes is unprecedented in any sports competition I think we've

done a brilliant job I'm really happy but of course there are things that you've logged and things that we're chatting now about okay they're even better things we can do even better are X Y and Z so you know 27 will be bigger and better than this year and what are those things across a number of areas whether you're looking on the fields you know can we go even better with the product and even better with the quality at cricket where we're looking yeah sure at the attendances and can they go up again you know we'll have the ashes men's ashes and women's ashes next year

and so that will hopefully rise kind of people thinking about cricket talking about cricket which historically has had a positive impact on the hundred can we do better with our digital products and how people follow people are now following sports in different ways so can we meet them where they are in a better way that we've done this year so there are improvements in a number of And what about behind the scenes in terms of the investors? Yeah. What have they found frustrating about the process? I think on the whole, they're in a good place and they're happy.

As a year one coming in, a lot of them not from the UK, so whether it's America or Sydney or India, they're from different areas. They've come in, learnt about English cricket and English sports ecosystem. They're in a really good place. What's brilliant though, from my perspective, is now is the hunger and the passion, and the excitement and the ideas. I've had to buy an extra battery pack for my phone, but that's really good as they are calling and thinking of ideas and new ways

in which we can go forward now. So I'm really excited about what that means there'll be a busy winter, but what it means coming into the 27th season. Any secrets? What can you tell us? No, well, it would ruin the surprise, wouldn't it? Really surprise.

That sense of identity has been a big question mark, because say here at the Oval, there was a real, broad base of fans for the Oval Invincibles and that has now been lost. Do you acknowledge that lots of teams in the same colours, players moving round, it has felt like at times it's a bit of a sort of hard tournament actually to get a bit of a grip of. Yeah, I think it's been a reset year. That was always the plan. For a tournament to grow in the long term, you did need a bit of jeopardy. We want to equalise the teams.

As much as it's great for the Oval to win three years in a row from a tournament perspective, we wanted it that anybody could win it and anyone can win any game. And with that the quality that's got up and the new players that have come in that we didn't previously have. We want fandom to grow, we want fandom to deepen, we want tribalism. And yes, that will take time. But it's been a really good start this year and then as that builds and develops over the next couple of years, I think we're in a good solid foundation. Are you concerned that certain identity might have been lost and certain areas of that fandom has been slightly eroded?

Yeah, but we've built on it in other areas. So yeah, you know, overall invincible has had a brilliant following here, but My London will have an equally brilliant following. My London had a four year head start. There's been quite a lot of those that have transferred across and they did the shirt swap which has worked really well. So fans were able to hand in their shirts and get a Mike London shirt. And across all the venues and all the grounds and all teams, there's been some things that have built. And what we, again, as I say, what we've got now is an ability to really go again for the long haul with these teams and brands that we have got. Will you guarantee there will be no gambling sponsors on shirts next year?

There are no visible betting partners next year or going forward. Can you guarantee that? Yes. Okay. Some players have suggested quality down a bit this year. What would be your response to that? Not what I've seen. I've seen an incredible increase in the quality.

Clearly you can't please everyone. But I think what I've seen both in the men's and women's has been extraordinary cricket. I think it pulls, you know, the IPL and WPL is they are where they are, especially with the Indian players. But we are now second behind them. I don't think without a shadow of doubt. And just finally, do you, accept the notion that or the concerns that some have that England is now becoming too

in thrall to that Indian market? No I don't think I do. I think English cricket on the whole is growing and doing really well. Obviously performances on the field go up and down. That's that's the nature of sports but I think we wanted to bring into the hundred the very best across a number of different areas whether that's cricket, sports, engagement and the IPL has done extraordinary things and it would have been foolish of us not to bring in that skills and expertise like we have but I think with them we've got a great mix you know the London spirit owners with what they bring from a digital and fan engagement perspective is out of this world so I

think the blend is we've got it about right for the hunt well that was Vikram Banerjee sharing his thoughts on this year's 100 the good the bad and everything in between and I'm pleased to say that alongside me, we've got a World Cup winner in Alex Hartley and also an Ash's winner in Stephen Finn. Inevitably, Stephen, there's going to be a lot of positivity coming from ECB towers. But how would you assess what you've seen this year? Well, look, I think the tournament was always going to go through a period of settling in. Again, I think that the pumping in of the money by or the selling of the franchises, I think,

was going to cause a degree of turbulence. I think changing names and kits as well, I think causes a degree of turbulence, especially when people have built up an affinity to the team that has played there before. I think also the transferring of the responsibility for ticket sales away from the ECB and to the home clubs as well. I think we're seen in that first week of the, the attendancees being down quite considerably in that first week and albeit it has picked up after that. So yeah, I think we anticipated teething problems. I think we've had them, but now we're at the crux of the competition. We've had some entertaining games along the way. Vic Ram Banerjee Alex was absolutely certain this was a better tournament this year than last.

I'm glad he thinks so because I don't. I think the men's has been. I think the men's has picked up in standard as the years have gone on. They've got better overseas involved. They're paying the they overseas more money so they're you know the world's best overseas are coming over and playing in the competition but for the women's competition the the numbers have been down the crowds I think have been disappointing the eliminator 10,000 in for that that that's disappointing for me to be honest with you and I don't think the the women's game has been as good as we've seen it in the past I think there's been a number of reasons for that I think a

little bit of leeway that we've just come off the back of a home world cup and that takes a lot out of you as a player and a lot of your energy the extra overseas into the competition means our domestic girls aren't doing as much. I don't think they've had as much opportunity in this year's 100 as they have in the past and the first inning scores have been down and although the stats say that we've had some low scoring thrillers well they're not exactly been thrilling to watch. So other than that no Philly Alex understandably sort of pick out a few elements on the field that haven't quite worked. Do you do you understand that?

Subscribe to that. Yeah look I think the women's game, the four overseas players, I think is a problem for it. I think that it means that there are too many young English qualified cricketers who aren't doing anything in the game. They're batting eight and not bowling. I'm not sure that makes us better as a cricketing nation, especially how much the tournament has done over the last five years to help the professionalism of the women's game and the doubleheaders, one of the really charming things about the competition. competition has grown as a result of both teams, both teams putting on a spectacle. So yeah, I think they might want to revisit three overseas players instead of four for next year would be my preference and I think that we'd see far better balanced teams and I think we'd see the domestic players growing and getting better as a result of that too.

I think a really good example is somebody like Caris Pavley, Karis Pavley, who's had such a good domestic season, you know, leading runs score, a biting up at the top of the order, manipulating the field with a sweep, reverse sweeps, paddles, slaps it down the ground. She's barely done anything this hundred. You know, like Finney says, she's batting eight and not really contributed all that much. And it's really disappointing for me as an England fan and an England cricketer to see our girls doing less and less throughout this tournament. But then do we have to say this tournament is for entertainment. It's been sold off. It's now privately owned. It's

meant to be a spectacle rather than here. Maybe it's not here to develop England players anymore. Maybe it's here for entertainment and to sell tickets and to, you know, get some revenue. Crowd numbers have been down a little bit. They talked about it being basically flat in terms of last year to this. It's I think the third highest attended hundred or addition of the hundred. And he used the word fandom a lot in that interview, Stephen and you know, growing brands and one thing or another. Do you sense this year that a little bit of the identity that had been built up in the first five years has been lost. Well, yeah, I've been to

Southern Brave Games and they're still shouting Green Army down there and they don't, they don't wear green anymore. So yeah, look, this takes time, doesn't it? To expect people to come in and start shouting the names of the new teams and wearing the kits, albeit they have been given out a few of the grounds, haven't they, to turn it into what looks like a nice atmosphere when the grounds are full. But this stuff takes time. Developing those affinities with teams and players takes time with the changing of the names, the changing of the ownership, and then a big auction as well to jumble the players even more, I think has left people searching for that identity more and only time will bring that back. Well, in a moment, we'll be hearing from the

ECB's chief executive Richard Gould, who's been sharing his thoughts on this year's competition, but also some wider England issues. The TMS podcast on BBC Sounds. Let's hear then from Richard Gould, who I spoke to at the Oval, ahead of the Eliminator matches, ECB's chief executive, was it a very smiley mood,

fresh from his bike ride down to the ground, and I began by asking how he reviewed this year's 100. I've really enjoyed it. I've got around and seen all the grounds. I've seen a lot of differences. Clearly with some of the team names, the branding changes, my initial reflections would be the quality of the cricket is really high

and high than we've seen before, a number of overseas players that we've got both men and women. And also the engagement with supporters, I think, is really strong. Manchester, on Tuesday night, you know, the game finished, half nine, loads of people still in around, Manchester City Centre. more cricket shirts than football shirts and I think in a city like Manchester that's a good sign. It'll take time because there are new brands and but you can I think there's a lot more

attachment that you can now get with the teams because they are owned by the clubs and they're owned by the investors rather than own all by the ECB. What's gone well what's gone badly? We would like to see even more people coming to the grounds. You know, the Attendances were more or less flat. It was a slower start built towards the end. I've and there have been some breakthroughs on that as well. You know, Cardiff on a Monday night sort of nine and a half ten thousand people nearly all of them in there for the women's game as well. So attendees we would like to we would we will we will continue to want to drive them forward. The standard of cricket I think has been exceptional and whereas in the past I think there was

the IPL and then a hunting pack I think we've separated ourselves away from the hunting pack because we've been able to attract and retain the very best players why have crowd numbers been down because you must have had those

I know it may be marginal but this is a year where the weather's been perfect well weather's perfect the economy is not that great our economy is perfect but also it's been very hot you know we've had quite a lot of junior games, for example, cancelled in the recreational game where it's just been too hot. But it's kind of flattish and when you look at the changes that we've seen

in terms of branding and team names, there was always going to be a bit of a reset moment. But I've got absolute confidence that we're in a really strong position. How does the overseas investment align more broadly with the goals of English cricket? What it allows us to do is to deliver a truly world-class global tournament. That therefore allows us to keep all of the best English players playing in England, both men and women, throughout an English summer, and also allows us to attract the best overseas players into England during that. Being no doubt there is a competitive market in franchise cricket globally. And if you do not own a window where you can attract and retain the very best players in the world,

you will suffer the consequences in the long term. And we always need to make sure that in England we have got the best players playing in our competitions, whether it's for England or whether it's from my London or Welshfire or Somerset or Surrey. about the influence from India and I suppose the Indian market, how important is that to the success and the future of English cricket? The Indian market is marginal to us in truth. When you look at, at the moment, when you look at relative broadcast values from overseas, you know, this is a, this is a, this is a UK competition largely for a UK fan base and a UK market. and that will always be our strength and that will always be our focus.

I would love to be like the Premier League where 50% of your revenue comes in from overseas, but we're at the start of that journey. So we need to make sure that we focus on what's right for our market. Has the transition to the private investment worked on all levels in terms of marketing, ticket sales, getting that message out there, or is there work to be done? there's definitely work to be done, as you would expect, one year in. It doesn't matter whether you're a football club, cricket club or a rugby club. New ownership takes over.

Takes a little bit of time to understand strengths, weaknesses and opportunities. But I have been so excited by some of the energy and different thinking that we've seen, you know, 65,000 of free shirts being given away by Manchester super giants. some of the some of the stuff that's been happening at London Spirit Mumbai Indians southern southern brave all of them have got have got areas of absolute strength and I know that during the season they will have been watching their competitors and understanding where they can learn and adapt and we help with that as well you know that's part of our job the ECB is to make sure that we can we can help guide but the energy that we're

getting from eight separately owned clubs as opposed to eight teams that were centrally coordinated is different and it's very exciting what could have been done better I'm not going to pick on any individual elements because I don't want to I I don't want to put any of our clubs at a disadvantage or feel as if they're being picked on so I certainly wouldn't do that public Privately, we will always have discussions with owners and clubs to try and guide them along. But this is not a one-way street. You look at the investor group that we've got coming into cricket.

We've got IPL, we've got Premier League, we've got representatives, some of the biggest digital global companies in the world. We have to be on Receive too. And there's a lot of great ideas, great thought and great creativity coming our way. And that will not just be restricted to the hundreds. you will see that going throughout our pyramid, through the county game and into the recreational game as well. Because whenever you've got investors coming in, it's that shared information, new energy coming in, and we're going to make sure that we harness that for the whole game. Speaking of the different formats, England's test side start playing three days later.

How comfortably are you with the tightness of that period? The tightness is a difficult one to manage, but manage it we must. It doesn't matter if we're moving from an IPL season into a moment. English summer or we're moving from a hundred season into a test series and next year we'll go straight from an Ash's test series into a hundred the key is that we need to make sure that we provide the players with the best possible platform so that they can that they can adapt from from from from one format to another that becomes increasingly difficult but now as of today we've got we've got a

couple of the players that hopefully will start for start heading me next week playing it beckett up just down the road. I'm going to go and catch them up within a bit. So it's not perfect. We will make it as good as we can be. But because for cricket, we need to maintain the momentum. We cannot go. We cannot go.

The English season, summer season is so short, we cannot have a period where we just go dark for a couple of weeks. Like a theatre, we have to keep the momentum going. And speaking of the test side and captaincy, Joe Ruelly back as captain, Ben Stokes thought that maybe Harry Brooke was the more obvious choice. Why didn't he get that job? That is a decision that is made by the coach

alongside National Selection, alongside the MD, Rob Key. And clearly for us, what we want to do is to make sure that we had the test coach secured. And I'm delighted that Stephen Fleming is going to come. I think he'll be, it'll make. make up a great contribution to English Crickricker over the next three, four years. So it's a decision that is made by those people.

And so what about Stephen Fleming and why we've got this delay and this gap? Stephen has only recently finished a contract with the IPL, but it's, as we were talking about these franchises all around the world now. So although the IPL finished some time ago, the The MLC and the American in America didn't. So he's been with a franchise out there. We want to make sure that when he arrives on our shores, he is well-rested and good to go. And I'd much rather have that position.

We know that these roles in England can be testing. So we want to make sure that when they arrive, they are well-rested and good to go. Will Rob Key, who's still been posted in England, don't win that series against Pakistan? Yeah, of course. you know we are you know we're not we're not we're not going to be making decisions based on short-term series in this regard and we've we've made significant changes with the england set up over the last eight weeks we're looking forward to a period of stability and we know that we're going to have a very exciting competitive series against pakistan

why was a curfew in place for seven months why was it necessary in June but isn't necessary now? Sometimes short-term control measures or additional control measures are required for a short-term for a period. Joe, Stephen, they have reflected on what they want going forward and what changes they want to make and we'll be very pleased to support them. I suppose the obvious things say is, well, it demonstrably didn't work. I suppose having that curfew if it was broken.

So it may have been necessary, but then wasn't effective. I'm not going to go on further comment on this. It's had enough headlines. What about Andrew Flintoff? Do you know why he left his role? Yeah. Andrew, can I just say, did an... Andrew Freddie?

I never quite sure which guys is in. I think he's done an amazing job in his period with England. Certainly every time I have visited the Lions in a Lions camp, you can see the high regard that the players hold Freddie. And also the, you know, the, I don't know, the passion that he has got to try and make the best of these players, whether it's form, fitness technique, he's been great. But he's a busy man. He's got a lot of other opportunities. I think we are very lucky to have had him with the Lions for the period that we've had. Do you think one day we could see him back in English cricket?

Would you like to see it? I would hope so. You know, when we look at English coaches and opportunities for English players to move into the coaching ranks, that's something that we have to promote. If you look at over a 10 to 20 year horizon, not enough of the best English players have gone into coaching. And that's perhaps in the past because the coaching roles have not been, sufficiently remunerated, not the right profile, not the right opportunities. Many of our best players have gone into the media over the last 20, 30, 40 years.

I think with the introduction of franchise cricket, more opportunities, more high-profile opportunities with international teams, you're now starting to see that reverse. And I'm delighted because we want all of our best players, both men and women, then going into the coaching ranks and helping to take. the game forward. Did it surprise you when he left? No, it didn't surprise me. No, it didn't surprise me because I know how many other opportunities that come across his way. And just finally, stability is something we all seek in life. Do you sometimes sit down, I think, just give me

three months where it's not chaos. It's never chaos. It's always interesting. And I think when we are We're very fortunate to be in a sport where media and supporters are so passionate about the sport. That brings with it at times elements of great scrutiny. That scrutiny is welcome because it just keeps everybody driving forward. You know, there is nobody sitting there with any, you know, everybody's got a huge passion to drive the game forward. And whether it's support a sentiment, whether it's media sentiment, I really enjoy getting the feedback. It's not always enjoyable at the time.

It is always helpful and useful in terms of driving the sport forward. Still enjoying it? Yes. The TMS podcast on BBC Sounds. Well, Alex and Stephen still alongside me. I feel we've covered quite a lot of 100 ground. Let's get on to some of the other issues. issues at play. I'm really interested to know what he thought about the curfew stuff and the

words that he said Richard Gould were, you know, at the time it was necessary and sometimes you do need to put things in place. It is now no longer necessary and it all feels like a bit of a mess. Do you know what? I fully agree with Joe Root. They're grown adults. They can make their own decisions and it's to be policed in-house and to be policed by the dressing room. And if somebody goes out drinking on day three of a test match, well, it's on them. It's on them, you know, I don't think, I don't think grown adults necessarily need a curfew. Finney, do you think we can draw a line under all of that now? Well, I think when Stephen Fleming comes in in December for that test series,

I think that we can draw a line and start moving on. But I suppose it lingers on as a result of there being interim coaches and that side of things. But I think it's a good move from Joe Root to stamp his authority on the team. I think as a new captain, you want to come in with a strong message. One of those will be about players taking their own responsibility for their behavior, both off and on the pitch. So yeah, a good strong start from Joe Root. Sometimes short-term control measures required for a period of time was the description from Richard Gould about curfews. Also was pretty bullish about the fact that he wasn't responsible for the decision to pick Joe Roe.

Ruta's captain. That was very much the sort of team area. And though Ben Stokes has rather put the cat amongst the pigeons in saying he thought that Harry Brooke was the obvious choice. But understandably, Richard Gould doesn't necessarily want to get involved in that. Chief Executive has no right to be making decisions on who is the captain of the men's international team of any of the international teams. The person who is in charge of that, the director of cricket, is responsible for those decisions. I think if the Chief Executive starts stepping in and wanting to influence those decisions. I think it then muddies the lines of communication and responsibility and accountability.

But he was very clear about saying there's no danger of Rob Key's position, even if England were to lose against Pakistan. Well, I mean, look, the decisions that have been made now are going to kick back in. We're just in this weird holding pattern now, aren't we, until December. So the decision has been made to make Stephen Fleming the head coach, which I don't know him particularly well, but everything you hear from people is that he is a very good choice for that job. And England are lucky to be able to have him doing it.

That decision has been made. I don't think what happens in this Pakistan series now should have people's jobs on the line. I just think it would help everyone for England to win this series. So we can move towards December when Fleming comes into place and people can just move on and try and win games and win the ashes next summer. That would be great. I like what Richard Gould said when I said, are you longing for a period where it's not just chaos?

And he says it's not, it's never chaos, it's always interesting. Interesting it is, it is interesting to follow for afar as well, isn't it? Yeah, I mean, do England need a bit of stability for a while? Yes. Are they going to get it? I don't really know. We're in a bit of a limbo phase, aren't we, where we are just waiting for Stephen Fleming and Joe Root to take over properly. and for them to take over all together. I'm hoping that we can just get through a test series and then not be headlines somewhere.

Well, there's no curfew to break now, so we'll be all right on that front. We should, we should be able to get through this three-match series without something happening off the field. We'll see. We'll revisit this conversation into you course. Alex, Stephen, thank you very much for joining me. That series between England and Pakistan gets underway. Not long now. August 19th will be live. from Headingley on the outfield at 1025 on BBC Sounds and five sports extra.

You can follow all the action as well via the BBC Sport website and our live text commentary service and podcasts are out as well. Subscribe on BBC Sounds or wherever you get your podcast. And don't forget TV highlights today at the test as well. So we've got you covered for England against Pakistan. The summer keeps on rolling on future of the 100. Well, we'll wait and see what happens with that. Future of English cricket, goodness knows.

We keep enjoying the roller coaster ride of it all. Thanks, Stephen, thanks Alex. And thanks for listening. We'll speak to you soon. The TMS podcast on BBC Sounds. This goes beyond what the KGB did back in the days. Conspiracy theories and the Football World Cup. Is there ever one without the other?

Well, I've been digging into one of the very best back in 1994. Guy from Iraq gets a red card for a, you know, a dubious tackle. I'm James Montague, and from BBC 5 Live, this is Sports Strangers Crimes Presents, Shadows on the pitch. Listen on BBC Sounds.