Test Match Special - Have England picked the right players for Pakistan?

Episode Date: August 10, 2026

Henry Moeran and Daniel Norcross go behind the scenes at the Hundred to speak to the BBC team about the England squad selected for the first Tests of the Pakistan series.We hear from Dawid Malan, Tymal Mills, Steven Finn, Phil Tufnell. Ebony Rainford Brent and Michael Carberry plus we get the thoughts of national selector Marcus North.

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You're listening to the TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live. Hello, I'm Henry Moran. Welcome to the Test Match Special podcast. England's men returned to test match cricket action on the 19th of August, taking on Pakistan at Headingly in the first of three matches. In this episode of the TMS podcast, we'll be getting lots of opinions from the BBC cricket team about the squad that's been selected. To come, Daniel Norcross has been behind the scenes with our BBC team at the 100 to hear their thoughts on the 16 names that England have called up. In case you miss them, the top lines from the squad, Dan Lawrence is recalled, we expect him to bat at six, Jordan Cox looks like coming in at three, and Olly Pope is back, but likely to be just the spare batter. There's no Ray and Ahmed or any out-and-out all-rounder.

We expect perhaps Dan Lawrence will fulfill some of those overs vacated by the now-retired Ben Stokes with his part-time off-spin. Emilio Gay picked up a shoulder injury but should be fit to open. Jacob Bethel, meanwhile, misses at least the first two test matches with a knee problem. I've been speaking with the national selector, Marcus North. Yeah, look, I think that this presents a great opportunity for a look at different ways. to structure our side. I must say that, you know, Sam Curran is a player of real value for us and interest in terms of that role.

He's had a heavy summer and workload, and he's been playing at the highest level with a number of niggles, and we don't feel he's quite right at the moment for this test spot, but he's certainly someone that we're going to be working around over the coming weeks. But in terms of the squad balance that we've picked here is, you know, we've got Lawrence at 6th, like I said, Smith moves down to seven and gives us an opportunity now to play

the four pace bowlers or if we come across a spinning track and we've got Bashir we feel as our number one spitter in the country at the moment that means that we have to shift and look at either playing three pace bowlers and Vash or we move Smith

off to six and change a balance there so yeah look without Ben Stokes it presents opportunity to see what different structures we can play with Ran Ahmed nodding the squads. What did he do wrong? Oh look Rayan has done nothing wrong. You know he's been, he's someone of real value for us and we highly regard. He's been in all three format squads.

You know, at this stage we felt that going in with us, you know, what we see is our best six batters with smudge at seven is key. That's why he's got the, Lawrence has got the nod at six. Bashir is our spear in the squad. So, an opportunity for Rahad to go back and to dominate with Lester and continue his good season on. So no, the future's still very bright for Rahan. No Sunny Baker, no James Roo as well, so they miss out. Yeah, look, and I think that is a reflection of we've got a fantastic group of bowlers now. Sunny Baker is someone that's continuing to plough very well at every opportunity at whatever level or team he's playing for.

obviously Brian Kass is someone that comes back now who's fully fit and he's been a regular player around the test squad for a couple of years now so he obviously squeezes out sunny in terms of that role and then we've got the inclusion of the likes of Cook who we feel again gives us a slightly different opportunity to play that kind of skill for bowler with Olly Robinson in the squad as well and saw how well he performed at most. boards and Cook and Fisher are kind of probably grouping themselves together that complement the raw pace and ability of the guys bowling up to 90 miles an hour. We feel that combination is something that we want to look at more closely, certainly

in England's conditions. Were any other all-rounders considered, Overton perhaps? Oh look, there was a discussion of a number of different other players, but ultimately we've come to the conclusion this is the best squad for us to win the test matches against Pakistan. This is our most important series as the one that started. against Pakistan. Obviously the results didn't go away against New Zealand, but this is a very important series for us to play well. We get to understand a bit about the players. We're giving

some opportunities too. And hopefully by the end of the series, we're putting some good performances on and we're finding out a bit more and seeing some success come from these guys getting an opportunity. Who was responsible for selection? Anything from Stephen Fleming? Look, Stephen Fleming was involved in a lot of discussions. I think that was really important. Certainly from my perspective, as soon as you got appointed, I reached out and we had long conversations. You know, it makes sense that, you know, Stephen's taking over the side, albeit that Marcus for Scotthick is the interim coach for this series. That it was important that, you know, our selection reflects, you know, the strategy and thinking of long-term moving into the winter when Stephen takes over the team. So I think it was really prudent that he was involved in that.

And obviously, his contribution was great value. what about the specter of Ben Stokes there's all this conversation that you know might you one day return and do you still harbour hopes that he could one day be part of an England side I guess there has been a bit of discussion around that my job as national selector

is to pick with the pick sides with the coach and captain and of players that are available for selection and Ben made the decision to retire and it's great to see him playing well and enjoying his cricket at Durham but until he reverses that decision is, does become available for selection.

You know, my job is to look at the players that are and make sure that we become a strong competitive England cricket team and work our way out those test world ranking is really important. Would you like him to? Make himself available? I think that's one for Ben Sandsen. Not for me. Okay.

And just finally, are you enjoying this? Have you been encouraged by what you've seen in terms of squad depth and potential? Yeah, look, there's a tremendous amount of potential. I think I might have said that when I got the role. having the privilege and opportunity to work in cricket over here for the last eight or so years with Durham and now to take this very privileged role as National Selector is something that I'm thoroughly enjoying and excited about. Just this test squad alone is the opportunity of some of these younger players. We've still got Emilio Gaye in terms of playing his second test series.

So we've still got some players that we're looking forward to seeing how they establish themselves at this level. and like I said the excitement around the depth of our bowling at the moment is incredible we've got some great talent there so the future is optimistic but ultimately we've got to

make sure that we get the structure and we're playing some very disciplined cricket and at the end of the day it's a result's business and we want to start winning test matches and that'll be something that I think we'll be proud of that our supporters are very proud of once we start winning that was Marcus North

so Dan Lawrence is recalled and I got reaction from a former teammate of his, Davin Milan. Yeah, I'm actually pleased he has got a chance because it's not easy when you're a player that comes in and you're sort of someone is that scene that's been able to bet anywhere from, I would say three until seven. He's had to bowl quite a lot as well at times. And then even in his last test where he got that opportunity open in the batting, which obviously didn't go to plan for him. But in the whole, I quite like the fact that players are able to go away to county cricket and actually earn.

the right to come back. He's gone and proved a point by scoring 500s in this year's County Championship and weight of runs at the right time is handy. I mean, this will be his third opportunity of going at the test and you feel like this will probably be third and last, as it will be for potentially a lot of players in this group when you have a new coach, new captain and potential new captain in two years time if Joe Rood decides after the ashes that he's had enough of that as well. So yeah, I'm pleased that he's got a chance and I hope that he gets the opportunity to actually show what he can do.

He's probably going to bat at six or seven. And he has the game to be able to bat with the tail as well, which I think is very important. Is he somebody who, with the move from Essex to Surrey, has benefited from different surroundings and actually becoming maybe a little bit of a different cricketer? Yeah, well, I think sometimes when you're at the same county for long periods of time,

you get really comfortable, you're used to having the same voices, you play with players that you've played with for years. And I wouldn't say you get tested a lot. You almost get quite comfortable in your situation. And I'm a big advocate of players looking to move counties if it doesn't feel like their game is constantly improving. So it gives you the opportunity to go and work with a different coach, different mindset.

You're under different pressure to be able to go and perform. You have to keep getting better because you're expected to come and score runs as a big signing when you go to those clubs. So I think it's benefited him a lot. And it'd actually be interested to see how he goes about. in the county championship, he's been really aggressive because at the time that's what players wanted. They wanted the basball type players to take the game on. He really attacked it. And when he got in, he really dominated and put the bowlers under a lot of pressure by hitting a lot of fours and sixes,

which is a different regime. And if he goes, walks out and gets caught at Cal Corner for Seema in a test match under a new regime, how that would be viewed would be different. But I'd like to see him go about the way he has been and just be as positive as he can, but smart with the way he scores his runs. Jordan Cox at three. He's been unlucky at times in squads, gets injured one thing and another. How good is he? I absolutely love him. I think he's brilliant player. I think he's, yeah, as you say, he's been one of those unlucky players that he's always had injuries at times when you think he's going to get a good run for it. I like his technique. I think he's very solid in defence. I think he's got a lot of confidence. I think he's got a lot of confidence. about him. He hits the ball incredibly cleanly and I think it's a right time for him.

And once again, he's only really getting this chance because of an injury to Jacob Bethel. But he still has an opportunity to stake his claim and whether it be in that number three or down the order if when when Bethel comes back. But I really like him and I hope he gets a good run in this series and hopefully he does get to score under his belt and he's able to push for for more opportunities later on because I think he's a hell of a player. Yeah. And somebody that could be a big part of England future. cross format? Oh, 100%. And you look at him in T20. He's had a couple of goes and ODIs. And the same thing. It hasn't worked out for him in that small sort of sample of opportunities that he's been given. But that doesn't mean he's not a good player. You know, some players come in and get 100 or they get a 50 and suddenly they get back to other players. It takes a little bit of time. But that doesn't mean you're not a good player. And I think he has all the attributes to be very successful in international cricket. He just needs to get a bit of a run. And then when he gets the run, he needs to score runs. Because obviously as basic as that sounds, score. running runs is what keeps you in once you get that opportunity. What about the return of Olly Pope? Because after the Ashes series in Australia, it felt as though his time maybe,

certainly for a slightly longer extended period might have come to an end. I don't think he's going to be in the mind to start matches, but he is back in the test squad. Yeah, I've got to be honest. I was slightly surprised by that. Just to clarify, Ollie Pope's obviously a very good player. He scored 10 test hundreds. You're not a mug with a bat if he scored 10 test hundreds. He scored 10 test hundreds. And he's, I think at times he's been absolutely phenomenal for England. I mean, he was averaging close to 40 batting at three.

And as with any good player, the longer you're in, the more chances you have to fail. And the more you get found out. And he eventually got dropped during that ashes when he had a poor run. And, you know, a lot of the issues that play or people have said that he'd had over the years hadn't really been rectified. I think the surprising thing for me is that he's been dropped. And three games later, he's been picked again. And I know people say he's average 54 in county cricket.

Olly Pope will average 54, 55, 80 every year for the rest of his career in county cricket. He's that good a player. But at the end of the day, you need to get judged on what you do when you play for England when you've been around for a long period of time. Scoring runs in county cricket gets you looked at, and then you get judged on what you do in international cricket. And I think there's a lot of times, and this is not only for Olli, but for other players where they don't perform in domestic, sorry, international cricket, they go away and they dominate. tournament or a period of time they just get repicked again and you forget about the

performances at test cricket but I hope Olly Pope's gone away in this three or four month period he's rectified it because otherwise you're just going to get the same player again but it does show a lot that he's gone away and still been able to score runs to put his name back in the hat he's played 64 tests it's a huge sample size 113 innings averages 34.5 yeah well the tricky you look at numbers because I know the start of Basball there were some really good wickets that they played on and it looked like they went to a shift of going away from the green wickets to playing on flat wickets where where badders could express

themselves but there's also been times where he scored some really tough runs on tough wickets he scored that double hundred in India I think it was on a really tricky wicket and he scored some hundreds before on wickets as well and you look at the ashes stats where batters were really averaging low there weren't a lot of players that that scored a lot of runs. So the wickets you play on are not great. So statistically, sometimes it is hard, but I once got told that at the end of your career,

statistics are what you get judged on. So if you're averaging 34, then that's what, you know, the type of player you're on, whatever the wickets you are. So, you know, that's a lot of test matches, but you have to say he was in and out in the early stages of his career.

And when he did get a run, he did average 39 or 40 for a long period of time. So it shows he's a really good play and he can perform at international cricket. So there's no doubt in that. it's just whether it's the right time to bring him back. And what message you're sending that, oh, you've been dropped for three test matches.

Not only him, but in general, and just go on average, whatever you average score 100 in County Cricket, and you're just straight back in. And I don't know if that just shows about the depth of County Cricket and the depth of the players that they're looking at at the moment. And if they, that pool is actually a lot smaller than what we think. Into the squad comes Sam Cook again after time in the wilderness after his one opportunity against Zimbabwe in the early part of

2025. Numbers, again, domestically, almost demand selection. It does. And I guess it's just the makeup of the of the team and how they go about it. You know, he's knocked on the door for years. He got that opportunity. He came out and said that he thought he tried too hard and he tried too many things. And if he got his go again, he try and be as simple as he possibly can do what he does at county cricket. So, you know, I expect him to have learned from that. He's a smart cricketer. I've played a lot of cricket with him. I played the Rockets for three years.

He thinks about the game so well. He's really clear how he wants to go about his game. And I'm pretty sure that if he gets another crack at it, he will be very good. And I guess the decision for them is whether it's Cook or Olly Robinson, who's come back from an injury, carried a bit of a niggle, but he was phenomenal as well. So it looks like they're trying to find that like-for-like with Robinson and Sam Cook, and then they'll play the pace around that. What about Shera Bashir continues to be selected,

and England are going to play four seamers, and what his role is going to be remains to be seen. And I don't know. It just feels like we continue with this experiment and will continue to say that he is their number one spinner. But I don't know. Your thoughts? Well, I feel for him to some degree. It's not his decision to pick himself.

And it's not just his decision on how things go on the field. He obviously tries as well as he can. I think the hardest thing is that every single person you speak to from a coaching point of view, whether that's Mickey Arthur Derby or England coaches and even Joe Root, they think he's going to be phenomenal. And so when they watch him bowl and they met to him and they face him in the nets, they say this guy is the real deal. So there's a lot when a lot of players are saying, we think this guy is going to be brilliant. It's really tricky when you have to give them the opportunity to play in test cricket and then judge them on that.

And it goes back to the same with the batting. At the end of the day, you're judged on what you do in international cricket. Whatever you do in the nets. and he either needs to be given a run or he needs to go and work on his game and that decision needs to be made it looks like they keep sticking with him because they do think there's potential

they do think he's the next big spinner for England but as I said at some point they need to make a decision on that and either back him because what happened in the ashes wasn't easy for someone like him you're listening to the TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live Lives Less Ordinary is bringing you a special series

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the former England opener David Milan. Let's get some more views now as Daniel Norcross has been behind the scenes at the 100 to speak to our BBC team. I have got Tamal Mills alongside me. Your reaction to this 16 man squad that England has selected. It seems like a very big one for a home three-match series.

Yeah, it is. I guess there's a lot of bowling cover on there. Obviously, the 100 runs right up until the start of the test. So if, for example, two or three of the bowlers are playing in the 100 final, will that affect selection contest day Ollie Robinson's partner for the wife is due their first child in the next week to 10 days as well so I think there's a little bit of that thrown in

so yeah a lot of cover needed particularly on the bowling front and ironically it's a baton Amelia Gaye who's gotten injured and you'll be interesting to see what they do should he not be available but yeah I think a little bit of a few selections in there that have

raised a few eyebrows and or at least caught the eye. I personally really like Dan Lawrence's selection. I think he's been an excellent form all year. He's an excellent player. All forms of the games, he's being really one at the hundred now, but he's also doing really well in the county championship as well and gives you a, I think,

a very good off-skilling option as well. So, yeah, I like personally, Dan Lawrence's a selection, I think he's been merited and, yeah, I know for seeing him playing in the Pakistan shoes. We've had such a dry summer. You would expect spin to come into it, and clearly they've decided that Shoa Bashir is

still the main spinner, but no place for Rehan Ahmed, does that surprise you? Look, they've obviously gone for Dan Lawrence over him as a spinning option. And, yeah, Rehan, he's been tough, I think dealt with a bit of a tough hand because he's been in squads pretty consistently for the last, what, three years, four years, without actually playing very much. And then now, as you say, a decent chance to maybe have a good look at him and they've decided not to go that way. but obviously we've got a new hierarchy now

in English cricket Marcus North Stephen Flaring I'm sure has had his front of running his rule over the squad as well and given his input although he won't be physically in charge for this series

and they've obviously they've picked this squad that they want to have a look at and unfortunately Rayhan isn't been involved but he's so young that his time will come eventually I'm sure

it's just not on this occasion as a fast bowler though are you intrigued by the fact that Sonny Baker who has played a test match this summer already at the overall, not in the squad, but Sam Cook is, and that's sort of a nod to county cricket, but the previous management didn't seem that they wanted to go to a quintessentially English

bowler. They were looking for out and out pace, but this squad just showing signs of maybe just veering more towards the sort of quintessentially English seamer. Yeah, potentially I think with Archer and Tongue, you do have two 90-mile-an-hour holders, so it's not like you're lacking one. So I guess for the, you know, the flavour and variety. variety of different bowlers in different moulds. And it's great to see. Some people, he's a fast bowler. I know his has debut against Zimbabwe last summer

didn't quite go, as he probably would have liked. But, you know, one game doesn't make a bad bowler. But if he gets an opportunity, I'm backing to bounce back. And as I think, they're just wanting to have a variety in there for different conditions, and that we don't know what type of features they're going to be asking to be prepared for,

either headingly for a first test or the tests thereafter. but I think they've got most bases cover. As always, they haven't got a left armour in there, but that's kind of one thing that's been missing from the English test team for a long time. But apart from that, they've got pretty much another basis code. So finally, on that subject,

because they also haven't got a scene bowling all rounder in there. They said that Sam Curran they didn't feel was ready yet because of his injuries, but they haven't ruled him out for the third test. Would you like to see somebody like Sam Curran or indeed Sam Curran in that type? It certainly fits the bill in terms of the skill, that they would want. Ben Stokes is obviously a nile, an impossible player to replace as a cricketer

that remove the captaincy side of things. And Sam Cairn's probably as close as you're going to get in terms of being a genuine batter, which he is. You know, bats in the top five, top four in franchise cricket around the world. If you play for Surrey, he could well do so as well in the Cairchampionship. And he's a good fourth seamer to have as part of your team as well. It gives you your left-arm angle, might create a little bit of rough for your off-spinner, those little things, those of intangibles that, you know, don't always think about. And yeah, look, they obviously name-checked him and said that if he was fit, he probably would have been part of the squad in the first instance. But he had this, I think it's a hamstring. He was struggling with a little

bit, although he's back playing and he's bowling in the hundred. But I guess, you know, if you're going to pick him as a test player, you need to be sure that he can bowl you 10 to 15 overs at least twice during the game. So I think, the smart thing, you know, just holding him off for now. But it sounds like we'll see him back in whites pretty soon. I have got with me Stephen Finn Stephen there are a lot of fast bowlers in this squad there are 16 people in the squad

and what's your take on the squad as a whole well I've been on Ash's series tours with fewer players than they've named in this squad so yeah there's a few to pick from I think that the one certainty is the batting line-up isn't it depending on what Amelia Gaye does with his shoulder and how he comes through that

but Cox at 3 and Lawrence at 6 are two guys who I think of earn their opportunity to see how they get on in those roles. I think the big challenge and the big question and conundrum is going to be the makeup of the bowling unit given that Ben Stokes isn't there to balance it as an all-rounder. And I think they're just going to have to look at the conditions on the day to determine who are the four bowlers that take up the bowling slots.

A couple of notable omissions, you'd say, because in the search for this all-rounder, Will Jacks was a spinning all-rounder in the ashes. Rayan Ahmed has been a spinning all-rounder in quite a few of these squads. And here's one where we, Craig Overton, who's been scoring loads of runs, taking loads of wickets. He might have been able to slot in, do a job there as well, but they've decided against any of those three. Yes, Rayan, for me, is the biggest surprise out of those three not to be in the squad, I think,

because he could give you a genuine batting option at number seven. That's three for his three. team Leicestershire in the championship and has scored hundreds doing that. So he's a genuine batting option in that top seven. So for him not to be in the squad, I think, is a nod towards the way that they think they're going to go with probably what will be a seam heavy attack and then rely on Joe Root, the skipper himself to be the one and Dan Lawrence to do the bowling. So the spin bowling.

So, yeah, I was surprised by Rayan's non-inclusion. I think that with Craig Overton, he's more of a bowler that bats, even though he is having an outstanding season with the bat, but he's not someone that I would see batting in a test match top seven. Well, as a lot of we'd have it, I've also got Phil Topton alongside me. You've heard everything that Stephen Finn said there.

What's your take? Well, I think Finney summed it up beautifully. Listen, they've picked a big squad, haven't they? And if they all play, well, we might win, mightn't we? But as Stephen says, it's all about getting that bowling unit, the batting sort of has picked itself.

I'm delighted to see the likes of Cops get another go and Dan Lawrence get another go. Weight of runs has given them their opportunity. It hasn't rained in England for about two and a half months. So do you want to be going into a test match without a recognised spinner? I want to see a spin bowler there.

Obviously, you can have another pitch. It could be this. They could ask for that and what have you, but they want to see a spinner. And this is there, this is there, this is their sort of, as I think Stephen said, conundrum, you know, how do you get the balance of that attack? Listen, Alders, you know, a Biden cast comes to that commingry, obviously,

and has he done a lot of bowling, I'm not quite sure. You know, it's all about trying to squeeze it in, and as you say, without stoves, you're just forever about a shawl, a bowler short, or we're looking to sort of a fill in here and a fill in there. It's going to be interesting. I think Stephen Flynn has picked the squad, because he wants to have a little look at them all, and see how they are in the dressing and what have you,

But, yes, it's just going to be a little bit tricky to get everyone in. Just a quick pause for thought on Sam Cuck and Ollie Pope, because Ollie Pope obviously out of the squad earlier on in this season, he has scored fair few runs for Surrey, but not a mountain of runs. Sam Cooke has been overlooked since his one test match against Zimbabwe, but he's still taking loads of weaks in county cricket. Is this sort of saying, look, lads, we are keeping an eye on the domestic game as well? Absolutely. I mean, they were criticised about that, weren't they, about not having an eye on what's going on in county critics.

So I think that, as you say, the big squad that's been selected is a nod to say, listen, you know, everyone's got a chance. And that's what you want. You know, you want everyone to be out there busting the gut to get runs, get wickets in county cricket, they get their chance of playing for England. And so, yeah, I mean, I know we take the Mickey a little bit that it's a big squad. But, I mean, it just sort of like says to everyone, right then, lads, you know, we're looking at it. knock the door down and you'll get your go. Last question to both of you, if Emilio Gay was injured, who, it's because there isn't a spare opener in this squad, they've got to look somewhere else.

Have you got any idea who might open alongside Duckett, Philly? No. No, I don't. And I think it would be interesting to see whether they do what they did to Dan Lawrence a few years ago, where they lobbed him up the top, and then we didn't see him again, did we? until this test match to quad here.

So I hope that doesn't happen. I hope if Amelia Gate isn't fit, that they do go for their next best perceived opener. And also with the new regime, it might give them the opportunity to go back to someone who's had a chance before to see if they can make a better go of it second time round. So who might that be?

Has he been, Dom Sibley? Who do you reckon? Well, I don't know. Or are you going to go back to Zach Crawley? Who knows? I mean, oh, who knows? You know what I mean? I quite like the look of McKinney.

up at Durham. He might be a little bit too early for him, but who knows? Hopefully Emilio, who when he came in, did well. I thought he did well on a poor pitch here. He got himself a 50

and had seconded in. He looks to have a great attitude towards the game. He looks to play with a smile on his face. That's what I like. So hopefully he's going to be all right. Otherwise, I agree with Steve. I don't know. Thanks, honours. DC Radio 5 Live. I'm joined by Emily Radford, Brent,

run our rule over the England squad. Will you make you with, Ebony? Big squad, very big squad. And obviously the biggest challenge here is balancing Ben Stokes out of the team, which throws a whole load of problems up. So you can see that in the manoeuvring. I think, first of all,

Jordan O'Cock's coming in at number three. That is, you know, there's got to be a new role for him. Very talented player, but he's going to have to step up quite quickly. The next is Dan Lawrence in at six, which, you know, Will Jacks had been in that role. And in some ways, I felt he had actually shown quite a good skill set and some fight actually in parts of the ashes over the winter. So he'll be disappointed. And for Dan Lawrence, he's going to have to hold that.

Some other things, no opener, Dan. We were just talking off air, actually, about the fact that there is no backup opener to Amelia Gay and Ben Duckett. So the key is that they stay fit and get a long run. I suppose what it does do is show that they, they be. back those two. And Olly Pope being in the side, you know, again, that's another move that maybe few didn't expect after the sort of move. What I would say about Pope is that he didn't have the best ashes, he's a high-quality player and you definitely don't want to write someone like him off. So for him, this is going to be a lifeline, getting back in the environment, and if called on,

is going to have to step up. But the real thing for Joe Root is navigating this new era with a team that doesn't quite have the formula yet that they had. And they're going to have to put some wins on the ball pretty early. A 16-man squad, and you'd expect Jacob Bethel to be back in that squad for the South Africa series, because that's not now until December, so it's a fair time for him to recover. Does this sort of give you the feel that this is the squad they would take to South Africa? Is that why they've taken such a big squad here? I think it's a big squad because they need to get players in and amongst each other,

they refine the formula. I think the hardest thing is finding that genuine all-rounder who can offer you what someone like Stokes does, once he's out of the line up, then you're constantly trying to battle to find that formula. And I think what it shows is they haven't quite, I don't think they've quite got it right. Once Bethel's in, he comes in at free, but then that later sort of middle order is a difficult place to be. So since they need 16 players around right now to get their heads around the next 12 months, the next 18 months and the build up to the ashes. So high-quality players in there, but a lot of navigating to do. I've got Michael Carby alongside me, Carbs.

We've seen the squad, a big squad, 16-man squad. What do you make of it? Does it feel right? Well, there's some interesting picks looking down the line up, Briding Cast back in, though Sonny Baker, who I thought gave him a good account of himself the last time he played for England against New Zealand. So I think he should feel a little bit of grieved that he's not made the squad.

Good to see Dan Lawrence back in. I think he's had a fantastic season with Surrey. And, you know, it's nice to see that runs and performances are rewarded. I suppose, yeah, I mean, Sam Cooke is another one. I think I rate him as quite a good bowler. And again, good to see performances rewarded. An Ollie Pope, the noticeable one back in the spot. So interesting, some interesting picks.

What we do know is that Cox is going to be at three, Lawrence is going to be at six, and he's taking that role of the all-rounder that's been vacated by Stokes. I haven't gone with a scene bowling all-rounder, because I could have looked at, say, Craig Overton. Sam Cullen, they've decided isn't quite bowling fit yet. So firstly, that looks like it means that they're playing four fast bowlers plus Lawrence, unless the pitch really rags.

and then secondly, no spare opener. And there's been an injury scare with Emilio Gay. We think he's going to play, but it just shows there's still a place to play for there, potentially, isn't there, for the top spot? Yeah, I mean, it's going to throw out some interesting questions. I mean, let's deal with the openers first. I mean, there's no to be no spare opener.

So does that mean Olly Pope, who's down to back down the order, which I find strange because he's done well at three, which is kind of an opener anyway. Should he not be, I would have thought the likelihood is he'd either be elevated to open with Benducket or will they bring in?

My pick would be Dom Sibley, personally, but is Dom Sibley still on the Indian radar? Is he a little bit outside of the age catchman now or would they be looking at someone younger to bring in? Yeah, it throws up an interesting question. I'm not sure is Dan Lawrence off-spin good enough at test level to play that

all round the role? Or should they be looking to play actual four specialist bowlers? Lastly, spinner, very dry summer and there's a chance of those pitches might have got dry and dusty. There's only the one spinner in that's what really is show of

Vashir with some part-time off-breaks from Dan Lawrence Joe Root. Are you surprised around Armend's not in that? squad or indeed any other spinner from around the country. I'm always surprised when Ray and Army, it's not in, it doesn't make squads. I don't know what he has to do to make some of these squads. I mean, you think this summer's been incredibly dry.

We've had no raining months. And interestingly, you've got spinners that turn the ball the same way. You've got Joe Rueg, who's some part-time off-spin. You also have Dan Lawrence who's an off-spinner. Shear is also an off-spinner. So that's three off-spinners, and no one turns the wall the other way. I mean, I suppose we've lost that through Bethel, through injury. So you'd think Rayon Ahmed, for me, should come back into the fold

in terms of being able to offer the ball turning away from the back. The TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live. Many thanks to Dan. You can follow the 100 all of this week on BBC Sounds with finals on Sunday, also on BBC 2 and the I player. Well, you'll also find bite-sized highlights of all matches. get to check out also our YouTube channel. And Test Match Special will be on air for that test match series

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