Test Match Special - Hazlewood heroics and the brilliant 'Bumble'

Episode Date: September 11, 2020

James Anderson and Jonathan Agnew react to England's 19-run defeat by Australia in the ODI series opener. We hear from captains Eoin Morgan and Aaron Finch as well as Sam Billings who scored a maiden international century. Then Aggers is joined by David ‘Bumble’ Lloyd to talk about his new book covering his career in the game as a player, umpire, coach and commentator. We discuss the star-studded Lancashire side he captained, recount tales of Bob Willis and Geoffrey Boycott, and get his take on the modern game including where he ranks Ben Stokes among the sport’s greats.

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from BBC Radio 5 Live. I'm Jonathan Agnew. Welcome to the Test Match Special podcast, looking back on the first Royal London One Day International at Emirates, Old Trafford. England were beaten by 19 runs by Australia, despite an impressive fightback from Johnny Bearstow and the Century Maker Sam Billings.

To come, we'll get the thoughts of James Anderson and we'll hear from Billings and Owen Morgan and Aaron Finch. Plus, listen out for a special chat with Bumble, the former England player and coach-turned iconic commentator, David Lloyd. The TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 live. And so England got for a terribly sluggish start. It looked to be absolutely out of it really simply in terms of runs scored in the overs that had gone. 57 for 4 and Butler was caught out in the deep after Roy was out for three, route for one, Morgan 23. But Berto suddenly found his touch. He hit

some sixes, got going. He was very well caught by Hazelwood out in the deep off Zamper. One of his four wickets, Moen Alley out for six and then that stand, Billings really got going with Wokes only made 10 but Billings 118 was the last man out he gave England hope but realistically they were always a big over or two behind but they got closer certainly than we thought they might Hazelwood finishing with three for 26

so it's one of those innings Jimmy that you think well okay a losing cause and he'd be disappointed he got out at the end of the last ball there but you wonder how much good that'll do Sam Billings I think it would do him a huge amount of good I think especially after his start he could have got really despondent not being able to

not that he couldn't hit it off the square but he really struggled to find his time and find the pace of the wicket early on but once he got in once he got going the partnership with Bearstow I thought was really really good and yeah he got England a lot closer

than they ever looked like getting so he deserves a lot of credit and I think he'll do his confidence the world are good Just looking at the start of England's innings, I mean, I suggest that that was probably where the match was lost. Berto then had absolutely no rhythm at all, but there's a number of dot balls. There seem to be a lack of push and run. Even when you are struggling as a bats would hit the big shots, we still keep it moving along.

Can't you look back now and think, well, if they've just pushed and run a bit, they would have got much closer than that. Absolutely. I think both teams were guilty of that in the start of their innings. and I think Marsh and Maxwell actually showed us how to bat on that wicket they manoeuvred the ball round they ran well between the wickets

they pushed hard for twos into the quite big large outfield areas and I think yeah you'd have thought England would have learnt from that but they didn't they came out trying to hit the ball hard Johnny Bear still really struggled

he was trying to force it trying to hit big shots whereas actually if you'd just manoeuvred it around a bit more and Jason Roy as well in fairness to Jason Roy he's not played for a while his first game coming back from injury so he struggled a bit but I just thought yeah England missed a trick

where they could have could have just manoeuvred the ball around a bit better this is interesting the covers are going over the same pitch which suggests it'll be the same one for Sunday there wasn't much pace in this was there and it turned yeah there wasn't but I mean they can do wonders with wickets these days, you know, if tomorrow they could give

it a quick watering and roll it and try and make sure it, you know, obviously repair it and try and firm it up again for the following day. But yeah, I mean, we said earlier that there's not many wickets left to use here, many fresh

ones left, so they're going to have to use a pitch that's been used in a previous game. But I think, you know, it was a decent enough pitch, plenty of runs scored on it. Both teams getting close to 300, I don't think Hazel would have mind bowling on there again. I mean, we talk about England and start of their innings, however.

He bowled brilliantly, didn't they? Yeah, man of the match for me. Yeah. You know, it's a match-winning spell, that first eight overs he bowled. I think two for 21 or two in his first eight, and one of them went for 14. Yes. Yeah, just a really impressive spell. Didn't miss his length, didn't miss his line.

And, I mean, you can look back and say, could England possibly have used their feet a bit more, just try and put him off his length? which I look back to when I played one day cricket, that's what the better batsman in world cricket did. They tried to use their feet. You know, look at a McCullum or a saywag. They'd try and move around the crease, not necessarily just charging at you,

just moving around, trying to put you off a little bit. England didn't do that at all. They just tried to... Is that because they know where the ball's likely to beat? Yeah, exactly. The more metronomic you are, the more they get used to it. And we saw Owen Morgan, when he did hit that over for 14, he used his feet, hit him over extra cover for six,

because he knew exactly where the ball was going to be. so I thought maybe you know it's like criticism of England they could have maybe done that a bit more to put him off but big credit to Josh A's wood brilliant spell it is it's beautiful and the ball he got root with the beauty does move away

he's one of your wobble seam experts now isn't he these times? Yeah you used it brilliantly you know you don't know which way the ball's going to seem but he did get movement both ways he beat the inside of the inside edge and outside edge quite regularly and on another day he could have actually got more

wickets he beat the back that much It'll be a battle against man in the match, Jimmy. It always is. Of course, yeah. We'll see. It might be Sam Billings, that very good, 118. How do we look at England's bowling then today, I wonder? Joffre Archer took three wickets.

Mark Wood got three, didn't it, as well? Yeah. Again, England looking at pace. Yeah. I don't know. I thought, you know, at the end of the Indians, I thought everyone bowed pretty. well. No one really stood out

everyone going for a sort of 50 odd. At 123 for 5 could they have been a bit more clinical, a bit more ruthless one more wicket and you're into the batsman. Pat Cummins coming in at 8 and then seeing Josh Hazel would bowl on that wicket, seeing the more consistent you are there was movement there regularly.

And England did beat the bat, they got movement but in between that there were loose balls, there were four balls that just relieve that pressure. Just so when Wood's running in and bowling at that sort of pace, I mean, it's such an asset, isn't he? But how do they keep him fit? It's a light frame, isn't he?

He's a small man. He hurtles in, he gives it absolutely everything. He's up there low 90s for much of the time, but there's always that thought that, well, I mean, delicate, it's not the right word to use, but susceptible to injuries, probably a better way of putting it. Yeah, and I think the, there's not a huge amount you can do about that.

You've just got to manage the recovery, got to manage his preparation for games, and then potentially manage the games that he plays in. He's not played a huge amount of test cricket this year. I think he played one out of the six. So he's fairly fresh coming into the white ball stuff. So yeah, it's a really tricky one. You've got to give him game time to get his body used to playing,

but also you've got to manage it so he doesn't. overdo it, like you say, with someone who's had a injury record like his, you do have to be careful. Josh Hazel, I'm hearing, is man in the match. Great. So there we go. So finally, we've got some bowlers I would say on the panel

there, but you can't help but look ahead, don't we? We're doing what we're doing. You see Wood and Archer bowling together. For England, have two genuinely fast bowlers like that. You can see the temptation. And again, we're going back to the first test of the summer, when Stuart Ball was left out, of course. But you can sort of see what the selectors are thinking, looking down the line,

can't need to get those two running in together? Yeah, absolutely. I think it's a fantastic spectacle whenever you see it. The T20, I think it was the second T20 at Southampton. Both of the bowling, sort of trying to bowl quicker than the other, and moving it and getting bounds. You know, it's really exciting to watch. But, yeah, it's... I don't know, it's trying to find the balance, isn't it?

You need control as well, as well as the pace. We had that with Chris Wolkes today, saw that with Chris Wolkes. But yeah, if they can get both of them, keep them both fit and firing, bowling, you know, fresh enough to bowl 90 miles an hour each time they go out there. It would be a real spectacle for England. The word about Glenn Maxwell, I mean, he's extraordinary cricketer, isn't he? There is again, he's got 77 for 59 balls.

But he just pops up all over the field. He seems got this uncanny knack of knowing exactly where the balls going to be. Yeah, he's a great thinking cricketer and I think he's probably a frustration for a lot of Australians that he hasn't performed consistently with a bat because he can.

He's such a good cricket brain on him. As we see when he maneuvers himself around the field puts himself in the busy position especially at the end of an innings. He's good with the ball as well, can do a job with his offspin, but it's his batting that sort of has let him down and I think

coming at number seven, someone He's so dangerous if you can get it right at that point of the innings, as we saw today. You're listening to the TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live. Let's get some reaction then. Alison Mitchell has been speaking to the winning captain, Aaron Finch. Well, Aaron, victory over the world champions. How impressed were you by your bowlers in particular tonight? Yeah, they were outstanding.

I thought the tone that we set with a new ball was great. Josh Hazerwood, hadn't played a hell of a lot of one-day cricket over the last few years, but he set the tone for us. He was brilliant, and everyone got on the back of it. It was a great, great display. Did you feel in control throughout that run chase, even with Sam Billings reaching three figures? Not really.

When you get a big partnership like that with Sam and Johnny Berto through that middle part, you know that you still have to keep taking wickets to win the game, and you can do that by over-attacking or defending and bowling really tight, and I thought our bowler's got a spot on today. They were brilliant. How's Mitchell Stark? He's just a little bit stiff and sore.

He gets a little bit of tightness in his groin in hip area, I think, so he'll be fine. You're jiggling things around. I mean, having Zampa bowling so well as well, you've got so many options in the bowling. Yeah, there was a lot of real positives tonight. I thought the way that Mitch Marsh started as well, Stornis and Maxwell chipping in. To have seven bowling options was really important on that wicket. So, yeah, it was a really good display.

I'm really proud of the boys. On the batting front, both teams struggled at the start of the innings. Can you pinpoint why? Yeah, the new ball seemed around a bit. thought the way that Joffa and Chris Wokesbold for England and then Hazelwood and Stark and Cummins for us as carbon copies I think the way that they pitched it up or they were really short. It was tough work early on. That's Aaron Finch with

Alison Mitchell who also spoke with the England's century maker Sam Billings. Congratulations on the maiden century. Some mixed feelings given the result? Yeah absolutely. Disappointed I can get the team over the line so unfortunately, yeah, very much mixed feelings. Look, it's been kind of a long time coming in and out of the side, but glad, obviously, on a personal level to get a score. Just a shame, like I said, it wasn't a winning team performance. How tough was it to bat out there against the likes of Stark Hazelwood Cummins?

To be fair to them, I thought they bowled fantastic well. Hazelwood set the tone fantastically. It just hit a length monotonously in the first. first 10 overs and it was really tough work and yeah I think the surface was tricky I don't think anyone really kind of got going all day really in terms of fluency I definitely wasn't at my most fluent for my first kind of probably 50 but yeah it was a tough wicket it's just like I said a shame that we can get a final partnership together towards those death overs um blueie and I were going really well and unfortunately one day cricket that's the nature of wicket it's very hard to come in

as a new batsman and start from ball one. As and say, you took England a lot closer than otherwise might have been the case. How were you and Johnny trying to pay things, given how hard it was to score at the start? Yeah, we had to try and get a partnership together initially. And then as the rate was climbing, we obviously had to take a few more risks. And yeah, that was kind of the plan. On another day, maybe on a slightly different conditions, we would have been able to accelerate more easily. But I think as Pat Cummins showed at the back end into the pitch,

kind of variable bounce into the pitch was really tough but you can only kind of chase down a score like that if on the surface like that if you have two blokes at the end going even at the end when I was trying to hit it I still couldn't quite get a hold of it you mentioned you've been in and out of the side

you've batted well against Ireland in the series early this summer do you hope that you've laid down a marker to really show what you can do yeah I suppose I thought I'd play really nicely against Ireland and felt comfortable I was playing at kind of my tempo my game that I played for Kent, whereas in the past, I think today when I was under pressure

probably 10 or 40, 30 or 40 balls, I would have probably given it away then as opposed to trying to soak up that pressure, acknowledging that it's difficult pitch against a good quality bowling attack and they were bowling well at the time. So I think for me, that was the most pleasing thing that I actually got through that tough period because definitely wasn't feeling comfortable. Like I said, it was just a shame that we can get another partnership to get us over the line. That's Sam Billings with Alison Mitchell and Alison finally spoke to the England captain, Owen Morgan.

Owen, give us your assessment of how tonight panned out. Yeah, it sort of ebbed and flowed throughout the day. I thought we did a reasonable job with the ball. One of our areas of improvement has been trying to take more wickets early enough and we did that to Australia today. Having them 100 or so for five early really did put us on the front foot. I thought Mitchell Marsh and Glenn Maxwell played well. to establish a partnership and given that if we were outstanding today we might have continued

to take wickets but you've got to give Australia credit they re-established a partnership and put a probably a roundabout a par score on the board so going at the halfway stages we thought that we were well in the game however Australia came out in the first 10 to 12 overs and were very accurate with the bowling they made the ball talk made inroads and really did put us on the back foot and from there I thought Johnny Berso and Sam Billings did an outstanding job to rebuild create a substantial partnership and keep us in the game and we always thought that when you have an established

pair at the crease who can take the game away from you the longer they were at the crease the more we were in the game but it's unfortunate that we've come up short tonight we still have some areas of improvement but huge positives San Billy's come in and scores has made ODI 100. He's been in the waiting room, if you like, for the last four years. His opportunities have come

for you and far between, but to show the character and resilience that he did today is a real positive for us. Yeah, how are you seeing him grow as a cricketer? I think he showed a lot of maturity, probably more so in the last two to three years. He churns out runs at Kent. He averages 50 over the last two or three years, batting at

four. And for us, he's a guy that's great to have around. He trains incredibly hard. He adds a huge amount in the changing room. But to go and play an innings like that against a full-strength Australian team is exactly what you want guys to go and do. How much did the batting power play cost you?

You mentioned how good Australia's bowlers were, but so hard to come back. Yeah, I think that was the difference in the game, to be honest. They took wickets early. They created chances and took the chances and to have us three or four down early it really does stutter our momentum and to be honest we've done well to stay in that game for so long

guys have played incredibly well but it's on a wicket like that I think it's an area that we still need to try and improve on it's our weakest point we're playing on the same wicket again in two days time which is great because we need to get better at playing on slower wickets so the surface did play as you expected

you've just got to play better on it Yeah, it played exactly, like the sun hasn't been out. It sort of, we had glimpses of it this afternoon, but the sun hasn't been out in Manchester for the last week that we've been here. So we were expecting it to be a bit slower on turn, which is great given that the World Cup is in India in 2023. So we need to practice probably the weakest part of our game, and we only do that by playing under pressure in those circumstances.

You're listening to the TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live. Owen Morgan with Alison ending our reaction to the opening One Day International So time for my chat now With a real favourite at the Emirates Old Trafford He's done everything in the game A player, umpire, coach, commentator Initially with us here, of course, on Test Match Special

We worked together for lots of years But lately, of course, on Sky Sports A very successful author His latest book, simply the best Tell stories of those who met across his career From those who played with as a teenager In the Lancashire League To those who shared a commentary box with

all over the world. Of course it's Bumble with whom I've had a tremendously close relationship all those years. Going back to 1978 when you're my first, first class victim, Bumble. A long time ago that was. And I rang you on the anniversary. The 25th anniversary. I said, do you know what you were doing on this particular day? No, no, I don't think I do. Well, you were just getting me out. It swung round corners. I can see it now. Have you ever seen it yet? I can recall it. I can remember it, that this ball swung more than any delivery. I thought it swung round the back of the umpire, to be honest.

Can you mention the pace? Very quick. I mean, I don't think anybody's bowling that sort of pace these days. No, I wouldn't have thought so. No. So, well, I'm glad you've finally seen it since the 98. It's great to see. We've had lots of fun together over the years. Here on the radio, on

stage and theatres. It's been, haven't we, touring around? It's been great fun. And I'm just thinking that the first book that I've got not involved in was CMJ, Christopher Martin Jenkins. He said and he heard all these stories, you should write a book. And that's what I did.

And I wrote it longhand. In the dining room, I got a very nice bottle of red wine and then just started writing longhand. I mean, I don't think they do that these days. And of course, now I get to somebody else that Richard Gibson just helps me along with him. And we meet in all sorts of places. And one that you'll remember at Headingley,

ugly mugs. Oh, yes. Yeah, we'd get a full English. Lovely ladies in there. Yeah, absolutely. So you settle down and tell your stories. That's it, and Gibson writes it all down, and there we are. Simply the best.

It's Tina Turner. What it was going to be called, I got overruled. I wanted it called The Don and Other The Us. Other The The The The, yeah. Well, the Ben, the Jimmy, the Stewart, the Fred. Because they do all start with The. Yeah, all there. Okay.

I'll just start by saying once with it, because you, I will always be very grateful to you and your Lancashire team, who are my heroes. Because the first cricket match I ever saw was in 1971. My dad took me to go to the Jellet Cup final, Lancashire against Kent. And it was a really good game cricket, actually. I was 11 years old. And you were captain at that Lancashire side that day. Not 71.

Jack Bond. Jack Bond. Jack Bond was captain. You were in that side. And the man who got me really into cricket was Peter Leaver, who's playing in that side. But that Lancashire team just became my absolute heroes. He used to come here and bowl.

You wouldn't remember her. a kid who can bowl at you fellas in the nets and so on and I could list every name off in that Lancash society as you do when you're a kid I think but to have that team as my heroes and to play my first match against them was a really weird

weird feeling wasn't that 1971 assy fickball and Jack Bond taking that one the catched extra cover which turned the game completely changed the game and I remember something about that game that Clive Lloyd was patrolling cover point and you never you didn't say we want

you to field there you just let him roam he'd go around and he picked the ball up all in one movement and not middle stump out of the ground to run out. I think it was Bernard Julia. Yeah, brilliant piece of field. Well you've mentioned two characters there for a start who I know you'll talk about a lot but Jack Bond, I don't suppose many people

would know much about Jack Bond would they, I mean a very quiet, unassuming fellow who of course became an umpire as well when he finished playing but obviously had a huge role to play here as as Captain. Massive when in the 60s here and the club was in a fair amount of disarray

and Brian Stadam had retired and they were looking round for a captain they were looking everywhere for a captain and Jack was in and out of the first team mainly in the seconds and he gave him the job but he was a father figure and he would bat anywhere number eight number nine and show things up

or if it needed a bit of sacrificial work he'd go in there but he was a mentor to all of us and I think what he had was a group of young chaps who played league cricket with a couple of gun overseas players. You've got Clive Lloyd and Farouk Engineer who were wonderful overseas players for us

and they still live in the area actually. As does Wazi Macron, who was with us in this last couple of weeks. So Jack was a special man and he was just right for this young team and we'd do anything for him. We were such a lovely chap. But he'd give you a bit of a slap. Oh, would he ever.

I used to be, you won't believe this, but I used to be quite volatile, and I know you might mention the coaching aspect of things. But anyway... I've never seen you lose your time, but... We were down at Essex, and I think it was at Ilford. And, you know, it was a three-day game, and I was out in the last two overs of the game, and I'm disappointed. It was about the third time that I've done this.

You've got about 20 minutes. You're a no-win situation. I'm caught down the leg side, at leg-slip by David Actfield, who couldn't catch at all. and I came in and so I'm absolutely ticking and there's a toilet in front of me so I hit it with my bat and it's split in half and water everywhere they get the plumber in turn the water off

and Jack after it all finished Jack said did it feel better after that did you did it make you feel yeah it did Jack he said well good because you're not playing the next match and just left it at that really yeah yeah interesting I've obviously never played on a Jack but I wouldn't see him big disciplinary necessarily. He tests

selector as well, you know. He test selector for a while. Clive Lloyd then because there's again people now will look at Clive and see him on the telly and so on and see he's got a big lad these days isn't hewbert but what a I mean the fielding talking about that I mean the big people perhaps a bit surprised

perhaps we couldn't remember how lithe panther-like he was in the covers in those days. Well I mean we're going really into yesterday year and you think of the great fielders at that time. Colling Bland from South Africa. Clive Lloyd, very tall, lithe. And as I say,

you'd never used to position Clive. I'd captained him for a little while. You didn't say, I want a cover point, I want a square leg, I want this, you just let him go. And he'd just react to the situation of the game. He was an electric fielder and such a powerful throw, good catcher. And his glasses, I mean, they were like

Jamjoy, bottom. How's he gone? Amazing. And a terrific man, wonderful, man, and Farouk engineer, you mentioned the size of Clive. You want to see Farooke now? Yeah. There weren't many buys. He's had a lot on his plate recently, as Farooke. Yeah.

But they were, but they just set the tone both those two, didn't they? I mean, Clive Lloyd's hitting. Incredible. Well, you know when you'd sign an overseas player, and particularly at that time when they would be on two, three-year contracts, I know it's totally different now when players will come in just for two or three weeks, But they had to be part of the furniture, and we were very, very fortunate. You know, I can think of Clive and Farouk and Wazi Makram,

who were absolutely, if you can, Lancastrian, they were very Lancasterian in the ways. And so I think it's so important that that overseas player blends in to the culture of the team. I think a team makes its own culture, but you need all 11 to buy into it. Yes. you've got such connections up here have you the roots i mean you talk about all the characters in your book i mean the characters that you encountered playing in the leagues up here as well i mean did that really help to to form you as the as the player as the character that you became well many will remember playing league cricket against top class professionals

in the lancashire league i was in the lancashire league and so they see this likely lad at 14 15 16 years of age and you're opening the batting against Charlie Griffiths Roy Gilchrist Des Horre Do you know who they were at that age?

I was absolutely thrilled because I was an autograph collector and everything so I was into all that but your formative years for me at that Accrington Cricket Club were from the senior players the senior men

who knew that you were talented and they push you along all the time and to go to Nets was very very special Wesley Hall was the first professional that I played with. Amazing.

And Wes, I could tell you, Jonathan, that a couple of years ago, Wes wanted to come back to Ackrington Cricket Club and the consul from down in London, the Barbados Consul, got in touch with us and we got him up and Wes saw, we can imagine this picture

this wonderful West Indies fast bowler who turned up at Ackrington and had two sticks. He was quite frail. What did he want to do? He wanted to mark his run up out on these two sticks. And he went,

And of course, I can remember him. It's quite a small ground on one side, and he used to sit on the sight screen waiting for the new batsman coming in, and he wanted to mark it out. It was a special time. I mean, days like that, it must have been, I mean, how lucky you were,

do you think so, to have played at that time when you could play against and with people like that in your really formative years? You know how times change, and in the 60s, mid-60s, it was football in winter, cricket in summer, that's it. Now it's so diverse, so we can

go to the Trafford Centre here and go skiing. You can go, ab-sailing also, just down the road from here. So there's plenty of things to do now, but yeah, back at that time, it was football, and I always wanted to be a footballer, always wanted to be a footballer, and not just good enough, and cricket just took over.

Just think of some of the club cricketers turning up seeing where's hall marking has run out. What they used to do, because of Charlie Griffiths, Chester Watson go on and on Charlie Steyers Charlie Steyers And so what you used to do

You book your holidays You'd look at who you were playing Now when do we play the fast men That's when I'm having a week off I'm going to Blackpool Or as we call it the West Coast Because what were the pitches like I mean to face people like that

On league tracks Well I went back to Accrington When I finished playing county cricket And that was great fun I was no good I'd pass my peak but I love playing competitive like you

wouldn't believe but I have to say at this stage that if we did come across somebody with a bit of pace strangely strangely the run-ups were quite wet

I'm sure we played a semi-final against Todmudan and Ackrington I'm captain of Ackrington and they had a Rattananayaka from Sri Lanka

Ramanayaka Median pace Ratnaica. At medium pace, all round it. Nice. There were two. There was Ravi and there was Ramesh. That's it.

Rubeh is a quick slinger. And so we're having a knock-up at Tomwood, a big crowd on, 2000, semi-final. And this chap walks in with a big coffee and a big cricket bag. And a huge man, huge fella. And now a lads are knocking up and they said, who's this that's coming in here? And I looked across and I said, he's Ian Bishop, that is. Oh, no. And this lad, Ramanayaka, had...

Ratnaicott had got injured and Tomuddin had bought Ian Bishop to play in the semi-final he was playing at Derbyshire at the time we got 190 some out and as I say as captain I said I think I'll go in eight

I thought he might have run out of steam by the time I get in there but we had to play didn't we at least the clubs had to have a pro in those days I remember being injured and going up and playing for Hasling Dunn I think Andy Roberts had played up there

Michael Holding had played up for these teams I mean, it's incredible, isn't it? Yeah, I think it still is a regulation. You have to have one professional. And the anomaly to that was, going back to when I first started here, so I'd only be 16. So the club would have a professional, Eddie Barlow.

But I couldn't go back and play for Akrington because they already had a professional, and I was deemed to be a professional here, which was ludicrous. Yeah, yeah. So you're all about characters. I mean, and you've got a book stuff full of them here, Bumble. I mean, just, I don't know, just going to your commentary team, the Sky team.

And I must say, it's love your dedication to Bob Willitson here as well. And there's a lovely picture of Bob there sitting, looking thoughtful. One great character and great friend that you have lost this year. Well, my goodness, how we're going to miss him. You're what a wonderful man, and you got that call from Bob. And in that sort of laconic way that he, hello, I think we'll have a spot of lunch. So you'd meet at 1 o'clock. You'd still be sat there at 10 o'clock.

And the best thing about that would be you don't know who's coming to lunch. There'd be all sorts of different people, eccentrics who were there. And you'd have a wonderful time. So we're going to miss him dearly. And he was a great colleague and friend, was Bob, as you know. Yes, yes. And without David and Ian as well now. Yeah, a lot of change next door to us.

You know what it's like, that times march on. Of course, Geoffrey's in there, Fred's in there. Go on then. What is about, because you've actually dedicated a whole chapter. You are Lancasteria from Accrington. You've dedicated a whole chapter to Yorkshire. Yeah, well, you can't go wrong with them two likes with Geoffrey. I mean, a story about both of them are, very kindly,

a chap sent two wonderful pictures, huge pictures, of Fred, side-on in full floor. Beautiful. Signed by Fred. Wow. and I come into the commentary box into TMS box and I show them to Geoffrey

I said, no about these Jeff look at these here and he looked and immediately said well you won't be needed too will you I'll say well he said I'll tell you what I'll do he said I'll swap you

one of them of Fred signed for one of my plates with me hundred hundred he thought not that plate again so I got the so true to his word the next match he turns up with this lovely cold port plate

I think he was with and I say well thanks very much Now, don't put it in a draw I get it hung up, I will do And it is, he's hung up in the cottage And so he gave me this plate And I've going away And he called me back, he said, here, come here, come here, come here

He said, there's only 100 on there, you know, I got another 50 odd after that So he's got a prior place in our house As Geoffrey We were lucky to work with Fred, don't we? Oh, wasn't that just? Oh, absolutely fantastic and I put Fred as one of the heroes.

He was brilliant, a complete curmudgeon. The things that when we were in that, do you remember that shed that we used to be in a head of it? Full of smoke. Smoke. It was fire hazard was that when Fred got going. It got this pipe. It were like Ferry Bridge Power Station when it got going.

It liked this thing. People wouldn't believe it now. And it's tiny. It's about eight foot. And we're all in there. It's like a bonfire. Do you remember, you must remember, when he came in, and John, Sir Brian Johnson's only commentary,

and Fred turned up late, as he usually would do, and he's lit his pipe, and he's puffing away, and suddenly we're all in a fog. And John has said to him, he said, oh, I see you've got the pipe with you, Fred, and of course you don't inhale. Which Frindle piped up, yes, but we do. Fred used to hate the smoke, didn't they?

Yeah. He really did. It was impossible. But Fred somehow, there was a really generous side to Fred, I was well, wasn't there? Very terrific. We were lucky to see it. Yeah. I did a theatre night with Fred and Graham Gooch, which was a hoot around England.

And Fred, we had to finish with Fred because if you put him on in the middle, he'd stand up. He'd go on for hours. He were like Ken Dodd. He'd just keep going. Fred, we've got to go home because he did stand up. Do you remember? He did stand up comedy for a little. little while.

Yes. And that program that he did on ITV I think it was Indoor League fantastic

program and he walked on with a pint of hail his pipe yeah that whole city it was funny

because he always had a bit of a thing about about young English fast bowlers isn't he I mean he was

like Darren Gough and people they were but what do you think he would have made of Jimmy Anderson do you think

he would have been generous about Jimmy or would there have been still something that he wouldn't quite have got

well let's go back to Gough, he'd say exactly the same thing about Jimmy as he did about Darren Gough. And it was Brian Johnson again, who could just like the blue touch paper and Fred had be off. When Darren Gough came onto the scene, Brian Johnson said, well, it's wonderful to see this young chap, Gough. He must be the quickest bowler that Yorkshire have found since the last war, to which Fred pipes up straight away.

He said, I can bowl faster than that in a mic and a pair of Wellington. I remember also the lethal handover always when you're working with Fred Nevin Oliver was an absolute one for doing this The Aussie of course, Aussie commentator He would say After a word from you, Fred I'll tell you what, Fred, can you just explain

Why you've never been a coach of England And half the worse of you, in comes Jonathan Agnew You've got this combusting going on beside his friend But I wonder why he wasn't really Wasn't he used as a coach Well, I suppose he was doing lots of other things as well. There were very few coaches at that stage working for England and they seem to be

as Shane Warren would say, it's something to travel to the game on is the coach and so I mean I always remember Fred he came, he was on a tour, he was doing a speaking tour in South Africa and fairly modern times and he came and sat with us which was wonderful, he walked into the commentary box and he said, I've watched this lad and he's very splayed on his front foot he's very chest on he didn't get side on

I'll be having a word with him this Steve Armisen to which I said we're batting fresh he said well who's that then I said that's Andre now well he's the same I'll be having a word with him and all

those wind-ups as well oh don't yeah they were they got not teletext not teletext but the faxes who are used to fire off, didn't we? Send faxes into the commentary box. Sit at the back of the box.

Blois as well fell for every one of them. You and I would be making these things up at the back of the box. It was terrible, isn't it? The great thing was that you, in those days, a very early days of laptops, weren't they? And that generation simply didn't understand anything about it at all. So you could send there, create quite easily a letterhead. And it looked like an authentic thing.

You just press a button, and you could see it coming through the fax machine beside them. They'd be ripped off. And then handed, of course, to blow us, that carpet company, one. Yeah, the carpet company, he's got free carpets. He thought he had a free carpet from Sheffield, didn't he? Give us a mention, but he'll give you a free carpet from Jones's carpets in Sheffield. And didn't everybody else come in? What about me then?

Yes, all the other ones. If you don't mention us, I'll report it to the Director General. Oh, I don't know. We'll ever get those days back again. But did you find Test Match Special sort of liberated you as a broadcaster? Absolutely. I'm indebted. That's where I started.

I always remember the first one that I did and it wasn't TMS it was a Gillette final or a whatever it was at that time and Lancashire v Sussex so I was the sort of Lancashire spokesman and John Bartley was the Sussex man and so I got dressed up to the nines

just you know I've got to get dressed up get a suit on and all that but you're dressed down really it's uh yeah it was that was the start of doing the odd match here and there and then getting invited to work on TMS which was

terrific probably like many I thought it was scripted I thought you've got a script no off you go there's your microphone off you go there's script to go through that fax machine yeah

how do you think the game is now I mean you devoted a chapter to Ben Stokes actually was interesting haven't you yeah of all the cricketers you've seen and you played against and so on and you've, let's face it, go back to those leagues days

and talking, Gary Sobers and everything else you'd have seen. Why do you think Ben Stokes ranks? He's right up there. I marvel at the game. You and I at that certain age are getting there

that we get the best seat in the house. We're watching fabulous cricketers, fantastic. In my opinion, it's improved out of sight. The skills of the game, one day game, the shots that they play,

the extraordinary deliveries of bowlers. And so, you know, That is a change in the game for better, and Ben Stokes is right up there, and he's an entertainer as well, but he delivers. Kevin Peterson, the best batsman that I've seen play for England, and that includes the old stages, if you like.

Tom Graveny, Peter May, Colin Cowdery. I think he was fantastic, Kevin Peterson. Graham Gooch is right up there, David Goward. And so we're in a great position to watch, The one who's working with you now has given me enormous satisfaction is Jimmy Anderson That I remember Jimmy Anderson Coming from Burnley

And getting back to Bob Willis again We did a game here And I certainly was the other way around I'm certainly would have been It would have been And Bob's pressed his lazy switch He said this young man's bowling at 90 miles an hour Is that speed gun right

And that was Jim He just raced in and he had this sort of more eager bit in his air and I've said it many times Jimmy Anderson started as Banksy very acceptable artist and he's finished up as Rembrandt Did you see it coming do you think

Because funny because when he started He had that unusual action The dipped head and they tried to work his action But actually there was a while there But I think Anderson was a bit of a crisis I mean I think he'll say What they were trying to do with his action It wouldn't work for him at all.

In the end, he just went back more or less to how he was. I think that was at the academy in Australia that tried to change him. But, you know, his longevity has been fantastic to Ian Anderson. You go back to what you know. And he, to me, takes great pride in what he does, keeps himself fit. And there's no, he keep looking at his speed. You know, when they call it a day, when they've lost his nip. Yes.

But he's still 84. 85 miles an hour. So age is just a number in this case. Yes. And Stuart Broad as well. Yeah. He's working with you actually conversely, isn't it? I mean the two best bowlers England have had and that is some statement when you think of all the... Well, the ones you've seen, Statham and Trude them. Statham and Truman and going on Hogard and Harmeson, both of them and willies, you can keep going. But these two have been fabulous to watch and, you know, just watching Jimmy Anderson develop this lad at Burnley. You don't get much from him. You should remember Duncan Fletcher, when Duncan Fletcher took over the England State, he pulled me on one side, he said, this lad Anderson, he's, say very much,

he's a bit aloof, a bit above it. I said, no, Duncan, no, no, no. He's from Burnley. I said there's 70,000 like that in Burnley. They just keep staring at you, looking at you, and saying nothing. Oh, yeah, dear. You've done everything, you have, I said in that sort of build-up to you there. Was there any part of the game that you didn't feel totally comfortable with?

Because I know he's a player as an umpire, as a commentator, obviously, and as a coach too, obviously. Have you just been part of the game very easily all the through your life? Yeah, number one, I like cricket. I think that is so important for any of us. I adore cricket. And I'm a bit of a geek in that at weekends if I'm not working, I'll go and watch a club game. watch a league matcher I might watch two or three on the same day so it's a love of the game the uncomfortable bit and it's inevitable that you'd mention it that was it wasn't uncomfortable

I was a little bit upset that when we were in Zimbabwe and I've come out and said we've flipping murdered them yes I was upset that I'd upset some friends and I'm talking about Dave Houghton and about Andy Flower that, you know, it touched a nerve. Whereas from a northern lad like me, I'm going back to football again, and all that I'm saying is that our football team, we've hit the bar twice,

their goalkeeper's man of the match, it's finished nil-nill, we've absolutely murdered them. And there was no offence from me meant, but it touched a nerve. And, you know, I've made me peace with all them guys, and I'm absolutely fine. They wouldn't take any personally, would they? But, Baxter, Peter Baxter, we finished the press conference when I've done it,

and I'm doing a little bit about Out of the Ruff, the book that we did, we collaborated on. And we've got a cup of tea, everybody's gone. And Peter Baxter said, you'd have a cup of tea. And I said, I think that went all right, didn't it, the press conference? And he just paused, and he said, I don't think so. That was it. Oh, good stuff. And you're going to keep going?

I mean, how are you finding life in the bubble? I mean, for all your years of being involved in cricket, surely, I never thought you'd see an England or Australia game played with nobody in the ground? I've got to tell you I'm finding life very difficult, really difficult, and certainly in the bubble. Back home, there's nobody been to the house. I haven't seen my little granddaughter for four months.

I've got a great grandchild who I haven't seen at all. And so I'm finding it really, really takes. the social side of life that I haven't got and it doesn't look like there's going to be any end to it but we're all in the same boat and there'd be many people like me and following the welfare of people I think and the mental health of people

is very important and needs attention and is cricket giving you a bit of a lifeline at a moment? It sure is, yeah just to watch these games and I think that the authorities and particularly West Indies, Pakistan and Australia for turning up here. It's not good in this country.

You can't say that it is, but these guys have turned up and I'd like to think that we've looked after them, but, you know, we own one. We do. This is the TMS podcast. From BBC Radio 5 Live. Well, wonderful to hear from Bumble.

You can watch the highlights of the opening One Day International on the BBC Eye Player or the website, and we're back on air on Sunday at 1245 for the second One Day International on Five Live Sports Extra and also on Radio 4 Longwave.