Test Match Special - Headingley 81. Botham looks back 40 years on

Episode Date: August 27, 2021

Sir Ian Botham joins Eleanor Oldroyd to remember the incredible Test match of 1981 when England produced an amazing fightback to win, despite being forced to follow on.

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. To embrace the impossible requires a vehicle that pushes what's possible. Defender 110 boasts a towing capacity of 3,500 kilograms, a weighting depth of 900 millimeters and a roof load up to 300 kilograms. Learn more at landrover.ca. BBC Sounds, music, radio, podcasts. 1981 and Britain is in turmoil, IRA bombs, rising unemployment and riots across the country. The worst of the rioting came just after dawn when police faced a hail of stones, bottles, iron bars and petrol bombs.

The missiles were hurled from behind barricades of upturned and burning cars. Away from the depressing headlines, England's cricketers. were doing little to lift the national mood. When they failed to win either of the first two Ashes test matches, Ian Botham resigned the captaincy and Mike Brearley took over. The third test started in the same fashion. England were forced to follow on after being bowled out by Australia for just 174. Newspapers were full of angry columns about yet another timid surrender to England's oldest rival.

But sometimes sport doesn't follow the script. The headlines would have to be rewritten. At 135 for 7, England needed nearly another 100 runs just to avoid a humiliating innings defeat. But then Ian Terence Botham with the bat, ably assisted by Graham Dilley, and Bob Willis with the ball, changed the course of the match and also the final destination of the ashes. 40 years after the miracle of Heddingley, I sat down with the now Lord Botham to reminisce about one of the greatest test matches of all time. Hedony, 1981, I guess you're not talked about this much.

Yeah, look, it was a great moment in my life, changed my life. I think the country needed something positive at that stage, if you remember, he had the race riots, Bristol, St. Paul's, Toxteth, London, all on fire. It was a really, really tough time for a lot of people. And along came, Heddingley. I've forgotten about the ones before Heddingley, but from Heddingley onwards was pretty good. So, yeah, it changed my life. I think it gave the country a big jolt

and people in the streets, people wanting the country to do well, celebrating. It's great. It's a really good feeling. How would you sum it up in a few words? Well, the Willis and Botham show. I mean, it was quite bizarre because the two of us were asked if we wanted to play at Headingley. Mike B, came and saw me and said,

look, he said, do you want to play? And this kind of looked at him down and said, What are you on about? He said, well, hang out. I know he's been a bit. I said, Brears, I'm as free as a bird now. You're in charge. Of course I want to play.

It's Australia. And he said, great. He said, I think you'll get 10 wickets and 100 runs. And I wasn't too far off. And then Bob, of course, had had problems with no balling. And he'd also had a flu or a flu. He's like summer flu. And I remember Breer's telling him the story.

He said, I rang him up and said, do you want, are you fit to play? He said, Bob said, why do you think I'm not playing for what? Why do you think I'm not playing for Warwickshire this weekend? Because I want to play for England. And I think it was Mike Hendrick. He was playing and apparently when in those days used to get a letter sent out to your secretary of your club, so in his case, Derbyshire. And then they hand it on to the player.

But when they spoke to Bob, they had to ring, the story goes, they had to ring the secretary of Derbyshire and said, don't give him the envelope, don't give him the envelope. And consequently, Hendon missed out and Bob player came in and did the business. I just want to backtrack a little bit and kind of just kind of run through the story, if we can, just to sort of think back to the start of that series, 1981. You were captain off the back of the West Indies. What kind of shape were you in and what kind of shape were the team in, would you say? I thought we did pretty well in the Caribbean, 1-0-2-0, 1-0 at home, 2-0 over there,

not 5-0-5-0, which was coming up next in the next couple of series. And we got back and their infinite wisdom, Alec Betzer was then chairman, said, right, you're going to do match by match. I said, what do you mean match by match? As captain. That's captain. And I said, well, that's ludicrous.

And he said, well, that's what we've decided. And I don't think it was what we've decided. I think it's what he decided. So I thought, all right, I thought about it. And I thought this isn't going to work. So I said, it went to the first game. And it was very hard because you're always talking in the present. You couldn't actually talk for the future.

And when you've got a team and you want to motivate them and get them going, you need to have that flexibility. So consequently, I found it very difficult. The players found it very difficult. And at Lords, I just had enough. I thought, why am I doing this? And I was playing really well for Somerset. I was in good Nick. Wickets runs. So I just said, I don't need it anymore. And at the end of the game, called the chairman over and said, I need to have a word for you. And I said, look, I said, this is ridiculous. It's not working. So I offer my resignation as captain. And he said, all right, fine. That's fine.

Ian Botham has resigned as the captain of England after the second test against Australia, which ended in a rather tame drawer at Lords this afternoon. And off I went in the dressing room, then I told the boys, I got all the boys together, I said, look, this is what happened. And Gucci wrote me a lovely letter, handwritten letter to say, and the boys.

And I think we were, in some ways, we were all relieved a little bit because now we could get on and do what we're meant to do and not be thinking about the captaincy, so to speak. So, yeah, in Kane Breers. And I don't know if you've ever spent any real time with Breers, Ellie, but he's one of those guys that when you first meet him, he looks at you, and it's almost like he's probing the inside of your head.

Like something of Spock or Star Trek, you know, probing. And that's what he was. He just got the best out of the players around him. Now what about meeting Australians now? What are the chances? They're certainly beatable, you know, that's clear. They're not a great side. They're a pretty good side.

Probably been underrated. It's quite a lot to win two tests out of, to keep two out of four, quite a job, but with a bit of luck, we might do it. Do you think now, looking back on it 40 years on, that giving up... 40 years is amazing, yeah. Do you think that giving up the captaincy

actually, in retrospect, was exactly the right thing to do in terms of your performance, that it just lifted that weight off you? Yeah, but I think it lifted the team as well. I think we all felt relieved to know exactly what was going on. And of course, to compound it, Alec Bess has written, did a press interview, and he turned around and said, well, he's resigned,

but I was going to sack him anyway. Oh, thanks, Alec. Yeah, that's really helpful. But the dresser room, naturally, we all laughed. We all laughed when it came over on the TV, and we just got on with it from that point on. The press asked me a direct question. Were we going to replace the end both of them? And I said, yes, we had decided to do so.

But he said he would like to announce that he'd resign. But if you put yourself in my shoes at 24 years of age, and the selectors come up to you and say, we think you should captain England. Just where am I going, West Indies? So I said, yeah, of course, like any 24-year-old, you'd think, yeah, it's the highest accolade that can be bestowed upon you as a player

is to captain your national team. With hindsight, and there's a lot of hindsight nowadays, isn't there? But with hindsight, I would probably say that I took the captaincy two or three years too early. But I wouldn't change it. What happened, happened. And as I said, right at the start, it changed my life. So going into Headingley, you're one-nill down in the series. You had the miserable experience at Lords.

And Australia then went out and schooled 401 for nine declared. Were they that good or we were England not very good? To be honest with you, I don't think we bowled as well as we could have done. I think we got a little bit excited because the wicket at heading lead can offer you a bit of help, particularly with this cloud cover. But yeah, they got 400 and we went out and, as you know, made a follow on.

And he's gone. Very fine delivery indeed. Both of him, in that over, just losing... concentration, and Rodney Marsh appropriately breaks the world wicket-keeping test record off the bowling of Dennis Lilly, who must surely have given him more victims than any other bowdo. Despite both them splendid innings, England failed to save the follow-on by just 28 runs, and quite rightly, Kim Hughes asked them to go in again. So day three, England were out of it, effectively. You've followed on, you've lost a wicket. Do you not think they were at?

No, I didn't think we're out of it. And the team didn't think we're out of it. Because of the surface, we were playing on, we always felt if we would get a lead, we'd have a chance. After day three, you all went back to your place. The Both and Barbecue. Tell us about the Both and Barbecue. It's quite legendary, I think. We played cricket in those days. He played Thursday, Friday, Saturday, rest day, Sunday, very civilised, and then Monday Tuesday. And we had a barbecue at the house, and the Aussie boys came along, and they were obviously feeling in, you know, it was their game to win. And they came in and they drove into the village in North Lincolnshire where we live, which is only about 40 minutes from

had any 45 minutes. So the bus pulls up outside a house in Blowrow in Epworth and much to the amusement of the locals. There's suddenly this great big bus with 4x all over it arrives and the boys came down the steps with the slab of beer and what have you. And we went to the marquee and we infamously won the last event of the evening which was the scrum down and in the wee hours and we destroyed them but we had gat so we had a whole front running one put one go so we but we shoved them back and um the boys reckon that was actually when it we that's when the series turned turned with the scrum down in the in the marquee but yeah they used to do that uh with all teams and

And even when I was a commentator, for instance, the Kiwis used to come to her house in North Yorkshire and they played and for a night, barbecue and what have you and the Aussies, etc. So it was ongoing for many years. And then on Sunday, you basically said to Kath, right, okay, I'll be checking out in the morning. And Ladbrooks gave 500 to 1. Yeah, and I was unfortunately the idiot out there in the middle and I couldn't get a bed on. But, no, it was, you know, it was pretty remarkable, to be honest. The odds came up and I thought, I mean, two horse race, five hundred to one on this surface. Anyway, we just carried on batting and I saw the Aussie bus driver, coach driver,

a team coach wandering into Ladbrooks and he came back and then we all found out later on that Rod Marsh and D.K. Lilley had a wee wager at 5001. Why wouldn't you? I mean, nowadays, you've been big, for that, but I can assure you there's no Ozzy's going to give up winning to take a bet. And if they put 10,000 on it, you might get a bit creepy, but they don't get a five or each or something. So, yeah, it was great. I mean, the other part of the game, you know, we all checked out and then, of course, the game swung.

Maybe that was a good thing to do, actually. Maybe we went out and thought, I'd put the car bags in the boot. And of course, at the end of the day, we had to get them all out of the boot again and recheck in. And luckily, they still held the rooms. So we checked in and then next day, well, it all happened. So your innings, it was 105 for 5 when you came on. The match seemed done pretty much. So, but what was in your mind?

Do you remember what was in your mind when you went out there? Look, when you go on a pitch like that and you'd go out there and you've got a pitch as behaving as that was, they were attacking the fields. So my attitude was attack, reverse it, attack them. And if you're going to hit it, try and hit it hard because they're, And if you do edge it, you know, you'll fly. And, yeah, there was some, a few, quite a few of those flew over the slips or playing a couple of shots through that side and went through square leg for four.

It's a trickle of a shot I learned from Gucci play it there and big thick inside edge and off it goes. And yeah, I said, I thought I can't enjoy it. Botham who pulls this, it's in the air, but it's safe. Beulham who comes down the pitch and hoist him up onto the top of the football stand. I think that's a sex. for the last ball of the over, and this is batting in the heroic mode. There's no point just scratching around.

You're not going to save the game. There's far too long to go on that pitch. So what's the best stop? The alternative? Attack. And we attacked. And Graham Dilley came in. He just played and enjoyed himself.

Chris Sald did the same. And while they're scoring runs, I'm scoring at the other end. And suddenly, what looked like a hopeless situation, I remember when I got to 100, and I saw Mike Breedie. on the balcony and he's going to me and he's not pointing at me he's pointing at chris old tend to stay tim to play and i can you know the lip reading in the sign language i didn't say anything to chris i left him a load chilly and uh he hung in there and um once we got past 100 i thought well

we're in we've got a real chance here on this pitch and we've got 230 and that was enough what was the famous richie benno commentary again uh which one well there's one when i hit a six he's hit it down the ground it's gone into the ice cream van and it's come out of the ice cream van and the words to that effect no one can do what Richard did with words, maybe John Arler

but that's the only two commentators I can think of and by the looking for that let alone chasing it it's gone straight into the confectionery stolen out again were you in the zone would you say? Sports people talk about

being in the zone no I don't know what the zone means to be honest I hear this how I'm in the zone well, what zone? I was out there to enjoy myself and the banter between myself and Picker was nothing to do with cricket. It was just enjoying yourself, that's great fun

and Pickett come down and he said, I don't know, this bat was as good as this and stuff like that it was just light-hearted. It was there's no point in thinking too far ahead on that pitch. And there is the hundred partnership between Ian Botham and Graham

Dilley. If they haven't turned the match upside down, they've certainly turned the character of the match upside down. That picture of you sitting in the dressing room at the end of the day, smoking a cigar, do you remember what was going through your head at that moment? I was knackard, if I'm honest. There's an adrenaline rush, of course. But then, of course, once you sit in the dressing room, it just sort of all settles down and you sort of realise what's just happened and you absorb it.

And, yeah, I sat there and the amazing thing is that it's become an iconic picture. And it means a lot to me to see that because all the memories of that dressing room on that day. It's quite amazing. As I've travelled the world for the next 23 years when I became a commentator of sky, and I'm wandering around the world. It's amazing how many people. There was only about a quarter full, half full, the ground at the most. But I reckon I've met three million people that were there that day around the world.

So there you go. No, it was one of those great moments. And, yeah, I think when I get a bit older and I'm sitting in the old. feet up, you know, with the old log fire going in the grandchildren and sat around then it might all fall into place. But at the moment, no, it was great fun. Did you think that a lead of 129 was going to be enough to defend? Yeah, of course you do.

You have to, otherwise no point in play. You know, nothing's over. I had a saying throughout my career and through my life, and that is that you ride the torpedo to the end of the tube, meaning there's no point in looking back. All you've got to do is just keep going forward. learn from your mistakes but keep going forward and that's pretty much what um how it was in that dressing room the guys even as i say at 50 for one we still felt we were very much in it

oh dear oh dear pulse rates i wonder how many heart attacks around the country people watching this on television listening to it over the radio and then we got a couple of quick wickets and you get one brings two brings three and especially on the surface like guys they didn't know whether to attack or defend and in the end we've got a couple of trying to defend and the ball bounce and slip catches you know then rod marsh tried to have a guy at skyd and graham dilly caught a very fine catch down a fine leg bowling now to the left-handed marsh who tries to swing him away it's high in the air and underneath it is dilly and dilly catches it caught by dilly staggering back and almost crossing the boundary they were caught between defense and attack and by a time they

perhaps realized they should have been more aggressive it was too close late. What was Bob like that day? Fantastic. He didn't say a single word to anybody while he was bowling. Might have had the odd word in my ear, but that was about it. And he was just, as I say, he was just, all he wanted to do was bowl. Willis is almost with us, bowling the first ball of the new over from the Kirkstall Lane Inn. Up now, he bows to Hughes. Who's good back? He's in there. He's out. He's caught. He's caught by Bothum, at third slip, low to his left. And he'd just have his little celebration for a wicket, and everyone pack him on the back. And you pack him on the back, you're walking with

him because he's off now to the back of the his run-up so I was speaking to him afterwards and I said yeah you're pretty grumpy I said you want to speak to any of us and he said no no he said I was just focusing in just focusing I was I was in that bubble as I call it nowadays and he said I didn't want to lose it and the Aussies I think he freaked them out a bit as well because you know he came in there that starey look and supported well in the field by the guys the team collectively and I went In Australia, we still felt we could win. Well, once Bob got that loose, that was it.

It was all over. Here comes Willis in, bow to Lily. Lily hits us, and he's going to be caught, I think. Yes, he is. He's caught by Gatting at midon. He chipped that one up, Gatting, ran in, caught it low, down on the world. Most of the Australian side very much inside the dressing room can't watch. Willis to Bright.

Bright is 19. Australia, 111 for 9, 19 short of victory. Here's Willis in, Bowles to Bright. Bright, bold. The middle stamps out of the ground. England have won. They've won by 18 runs. Willis runs around, punching the air. The boys invade the ground and the players run helter-skelter for the pavilion. At the end of the game, we had a young guy called Ricky Roberts in the dressing room as a attendant. He had been about 14, I think, 15 at the time. And it was a big thing. They used to put a youngster in the, just a big thing for him.

And he's come over, he knew the secretary, and he's actually came over from South Africa. So, and he comes, Ricky, and he's in there. And he was a really nice lad, and I used to get to sort of talking to him, sat down and chat with him, and he was telling me a bit about his sporting and how he's into golf and likes to cricket, loves all sport. And we've got chatting. And anyway, at the end of the game, I said, Ricky, look, listen, we can't get any champagne because the Aussie've got it all in their bath.

obviously thought they were going to win it can you just go and knock on the door now in those days the head and the dressing rooms one door here and across the corridor there so he went over and knocked on the door and the door opened and the next thing I saw was Rod Marsh and Ray Bright

as Ricky came through the door our door horizontal and which we set him up a bit but it was very he was fine but but the thing is with Ricky Roberts is that Ricky Roberts went on to be Ernie else's caddy to two majors or was it three majors three majors maybe but um it just goes to

show you in a small world and and Ricky reckons that coming through that door horizontal set him up the Ozzie did eventually sell you some champagne didn't they no we got hold of it yeah well they they weren't going to drink it were they what people don't realize as well is that of course we finished on Tuesday night and then we had to travel to Somerset we got a playing in the Benson and edges or the Gillette or whatever it was quarter-final on the next day so there's no celebrations as such and you know you get down and you went to drive down to Taunton went out and met Viv and Joel and a couple of boys and had a couple of beers and then back to business next morning so nowadays you know

if you'd have had a victory I'm sure when Ben had that great endingly against the Australians again they don't like going to head and lead the Aussies and he went there and I'm sure they would have had a great party that evening and celebrated, well, we all have dispersed to different parts of the UK for our coming up and coming games. So it was a diff totally different than those days. So our fun day was the rest day, yeah, and then back to work. Do you think that the way that you played at Headingley affected the Australian's attitude

towards you for the rest of your career in a way? I've thought of that, yeah. Maybe. Yeah. They had a few monkeys to get off their back, didn't they? But yeah, I suppose it would have had some effect. I mean, I go to Australia a lot now

because of the wine business and making my, blending the wines that I do. So I see a lot of these guys. But in Australia, you can't get a bigger compliment from the Australian public than when they say, you're more Aussie than you are a POM.

And I said, well, I've got the convictions. But he's, you know, it's a big compliment from down under. I spend a lot of time there in New Zealand every winter, well, in normal times. Hopefully that will resume sooner than later. With the wine and blending, et cetera, and try and play in the New Zealand Open Golf every year when I'm down there. And it's great because when you think of, you've got to admire Australians and you've got to admire the Kiwis. Your Australia is less population there is inside the M25.

and yet they win World Cups, their whole World Cups, you know, many of them at one go. And then you look at New Zealand, four and a half million people living there, and they've dominated rugby forever. So you've got to admire them as sporting people. Maybe it's where they live that gives them that opportunity, space and good weather. But, you know, they're both big, big competitors. And I think I enjoy that atmosphere. What do you think that that test series in 1981,

and particularly that game at Headingley, did for you, did it change your life? Oh, absolutely. 100%. In fact, it changed in some really good ways and some not so good ways. But you learn to cope with it and move on. There's always, if you're, you know, to go to a pub and have a beer, which I used to love doing with the guys, that had to be cut out because there's always some local boy who wants to show you who's the big tough man and blah, blah, blah.

So avoided that But then that was quite nice The flip side of that was That Bob, myself, Paul Allett, guys like that We used to, instead of going to the pub We'd go to a nice wine bar And we'd go and have a meal We all love our wines, David Gower

Lammy, there was a fair old contingent That started doing that rather than go to a pub And so you cut that out So you know, it was good and bad But to be honestly, most of it was very, very good if you hadn't got the rums that you got at Headingley if you got out for a third successive duck for example in the first innings

how different do you think life might have been yeah well if it was raining here today it'll get wet and it's not as sunny and shiny so let's get on with it yeah that's sift and butts I don't know the answer is the true answer to that is I have no idea because you won sports personality of the year that year didn't you in 1981 and there's not been many cricketers who've done that Andrew Flintoff 2005

then Ben Stokes in In 2019. David Steeld? David Steele, before, yeah, that's right. So he was before you, 75. Do you feel that what you did that summer put cricket in the spotlight in a rare way, that it doesn't happen very often that cricket is at the heart of everyone's attention?

Do you know, I think it could have been pretty much any sport because the country was so desperate for something to hang on to because it was just doom and gloom everywhere you went. All over the country, it was just bad news at that time. So I think, the only thing, I think we just happened to be in the right place, at the right time, to be honest. But it was a great moment. And as I said to you, you can't help that look at what's just happening in the Euros and think that we've had 18 months of turmoil with COVID. Hopefully, fingers crossed, we're now coming out of that. And I think that was the case

back then. And I don't think it's any different. So I think what the boys with the football did, the guys with the cricket ball did 40 years ago. When was the last time you watched the video back? I've never watched a whole video. Grandchildren, they have, and my children, I wander in and it's on, and I think, oh God, I'll go and set my fishing rod up or something. No, I've never actually watched it all the way through. I will be, I think, later this year, because we're doing something in the memory of Bob, so I will see it all the way through then. What do the grandchildren say to you? Well, I'll give you an example. I'll give you an example. I'll give you an example how times change. I was, we had a barbecue at home, and this is probably, well,

James, who's now playing for Wales and rugby, he was probably about five or six. And we had a barbecue at home, and I was trying to hold a glass of red wine and a cricket bat and playing around with the kids. And next morning, Kath took the boys to school, ran them to drop them up at school. She used to help with the school runs and going along the road. And I think it was Jimbo said to Kath, and they called Kath Granny Bee. said, Granny B, was Grandad? Was he really good at cricket? And I said, well, yeah, yeah.

Well, he's crap now. That was my grandson's summing off of my international career, which that sort of brings everything, you know, back down to a level that I think suits all. But that was, I would never forget that. Great comment. Bowling, it's all over. And it is one of the most fantastic victories. ever known in test cricket history.

Bob Willis, eight wickets. A fabulous performance. England have won this match after one of the most astonishing fightbacks you can ever see. Okay, what gets you pressed? Number one topic, man. I knew it.

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