Test Match Special - How New Zealand won the 2000 Women's World Cup

Episode Date: October 25, 2025

Alison Mitchell is alongside New Zealand World Cup winner Debbie Hockley to discuss her side's route to winning the 2000 Women's World Cup at home in 2000.

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. The Dakar Rally is the ultimate off-road challenge. Perfect for the ultimate defender. The high-performance Defender Octa, 626 horsepower twin turbo V8 engine and intelligent 6D dynamics air suspension. Learn more at landrover.ca. You're listening to the TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live. Hello, this is Alison Mitchell with a special episode of the TMS podcast.

We'll be looking back at the Women's ODI World Cup from the year 2000 with former New Zealand captain and member of the winning team Debbie Hockley tells us how the White Fern's victorious journey unfolded and how lifting the trophy on home soil impacted women's cricket in the country. Debbie Hockley, it is the year 2000. survived the mythical millennium bug. It's New Zealand's second time hosting the World Cup after the 1982 event. What sort of attention, first of all, did the tournament have in the country, given your run to the final across the previous two World Cups? Yeah, well, it was very exciting.

You know, the tournament was towards the end of the year. So, and I think that it garnered a lot of attention throughout the country. Lots of people came down to Christchurch to watch all the matches because they were all played in Christchurch. And also, am I correct in thinking that Crick Info, I think they were doing, yes, and they were doing, but they were doing media and broadcast for perhaps the first time. Yeah, Paul Bible, text commentary, audio and video. Yes, so fantastic. And also when it came to the final, I simply don't remember if Sky Television down here, they definitely broadcast the final. I don't recall whether they did the semifinals or not. But because the final was on the 23rd of December, there wasn't a lot of other sporting events that were being played in New Zealand. So that certainly garnered a lot of attention with it.

being live on telly. So I heard lots of reports of people who were at the pub and watching. And so I think that, especially once New Zealand made the final, I think that it garnered a lot of attention on the country. Yeah, and BBC Radio certainly had a reporter going around the matches as well. You mentioned all the matches were played in Christchurch. We should flag this was back to the eight-team round-robin event, although there were semi-finals.

so the top four would go through to semis. So the eight teams were Australia, England, New Zealand, India, South Africa, Sri Lanka, Ireland and the Netherlands. But what was it like, first of all, having all the teams together? Because that's in stark contrast to the India World Cup previously, where travel was all over the place across numerous venues. Yes, you couldn't have a more opposite type of set-up, could you? that, yes, all the tournament was, actually, I'm just remembering that we actually played

the Netherlands at Hagley Park, so not all the matches were played at Lincoln College where New Zealand Cricket's High Performance Centre was, but all of the teams stayed out there. So, you know, we all ate in the, because it's a university there, and of course it was university holidays, so we all ate in the, you know, in the university food hall. and so you certainly got to see players from other teams more readily than you would have done at other talk, like say, for example, in India, where sometimes you might not even see some of the other teams

who weren't in your pool. And what about sort of moving around each other, I guess having access to the facilities that were at the university of Lincoln there, that would have been very important, wouldn't it, for that? I guess the growing sort of professionalism of the game, but whilst you're not actually professional.

Yes, that's correct. So, you know, a really good indoor centre as well as outdoor nets. So I can't remember how the distribution or the timetabling worked for teams to be able to access those facilities. But certainly, you know, I know from the New Zealand point of view, I mean, one of the advantages, I guess, of us hosting the tournament was that our team actually stayed in more kind of like flats-like accommodation, I suppose it was. Like there's three pavilions out at Lincoln College

and our team and management were housed in those three pavilions, whereas the other teams were actually housed more in the dormitory style accommodation. everyone still had single rooms, but kind of like a shared common room. So I just remember that we were fortunate because we probably had maybe we had a bit more space than perhaps some of the other teams were. But certainly the facilities at Lincoln were terrific, really good, really, really good pitches, which is the number one thing you want in any cricket tournament. Indeed.

How much investment had been put in by the New Zealand Cricket Board to to host this event? Yes, a lot of support, especially in terms of personnel and Catherine Campbell, who played in our side, she was, you know, she's worked for New Zealand cricket for many, many years, and at that time had a, she was really, really integral for helping to arrange the whole tournament.

So, you know, we certainly, I don't know in terms of a financial contribution, but certainly we knew that the whole of New Zealand cricket was behind us and we had a terrific group of coaching staff and management and it just made everything run really smoothly so we really felt the backing of New Zealand cricket. Well, I'm not so old-fashioned because it was 2000 and we still had video recording at that time but one of the things I do remember doing was setting the video recorder

you know, like with actual, you know, VHS tapes. Yeah, VHS tapes to record the final. And I managed to get a hold of those tapes after the final so that we could actually play it in the video recorder out at Lincoln the day after the final and relive some of those memories. So that's got nothing to do with Crick Info, but that's just a different form. You know, it's so different compared to today, isn't it?

that you'd, you know, if you see a videotape, lots of people would say, what is that? Yes, quite. Well, the event coverage was quite remarkable with the streaming of the audio and video, live, sort of ball by ball commentary of every match reports. A whole website was built dedicated to the World Cup. The commentary team was led by Ralph Della for online there. You had a team sponsor as well, didn't you, for the White Ferns for that tournament. Clear. Clear Communications was our sponsor. So, you know, we just had, you know, their logo on all of our, on our shirts and on our track suits and things like that. So yes, we did, we did have a team sponsor.

So the 1997 World Cup, your captain there had been Maya Lewis. You'd captained ODIs for a spell in 1999 as well, hadn't you? But then Emily Drum was the captain for this tournament. What was her leadership like for the team? Really cool. I really, because, do you know, I think one of the, she was such a good player that I think, you know, if you want to talk about leading by example, or she was a really good person for leading by example, quite a quiet person. I've almost want to say slightly introverted. I'm thinking compared to me, who's probably a bit more balshy and mouthy, but had a really, really good deputy. and Catherine Campbell as well and I think that those two worked really well and, you know, occasionally if I might have something to add well then, you know, we might

have a wee brains trust but mostly Catherine and Emily just formed a really good team and just, you know, Drumey just got on quietly and led the team really well and led by example,

not only with batting but also you know, with their fielding as well really. You, of course, have always had this rivalry with Australia. It still continues, doesn't it, Australia, New Zealand? But the opening match, given that you'd lost to Australia in the final of the previous World Cup, your opening matches against the Aussies, and you lose by six wickets. Did you think, oh, no, not again? Absolutely.

Oh, yes. Yes. You know, really, I think that was the opening game of the tournament, if I remember correctly. Yeah. So, yeah, really disappointing a way to start the tournament. and it's just like, you know, it's like a bogey team. Although, to be fair, you know, when we had beaten them in the Rose Bowl series, and that was like the last time that I kept in the side,

and we beat them, you know that you can beat them. They're not unbeatable, but it was still disappointing way to start the tournament. But then you just have to, you know, you've still got another six games to play, and then, you know, hopefully you're going to get to the semi-final. So you just have to push past it and carry on. But, yeah, disappointing. Is there a story behind, why didn't you continue the captaincy, Debbie, through to the World Cup?

Do you know, it was the third separate occasion that I had kept in the side because, you know, like I'd captain, the first time I kept in it was 84 and then 85 and then Leslie Murdoch took over for a while. And I took it back on. And after Maya, I think after, say, the World Cup had a knee operation. And so then I got asked if I wanted to do it. And I thought, yep, I'll give it a crack because I always wanted to try and improve on things. I think I could have done a bit better.

And so we played Australia in the series and won the first two matches in Palmerston North and won the Rose Bowl back. And the reason, I found it really stressful. And it wasn't, I found it, like I really enjoyed captain the team, but I found afterwards it really took it out of me. And I just felt like it wasn't very good for my health. So I just decided that I didn't want to captain the side again because I felt that at the time, well, I, you know,

that's one of the proudest, proudest moments I have to say. so especially when we won that set, that Rose Bowl series against Australia, but I didn't actually want to put myself through that again. So that's why I declined carrying on any further. Well, you managed to do pretty well with the bats. What do you recall then of the path to the final? We have that opening game against Australia. You've got these round-robin matches.

Only particular standout moments for you? I think what stood out for me because again I was having a look through the matches just last night that we had good contributions from some different players including the four players who ended up not playing the final like we had 15 players in our squad and it was lovely the fact that especially when we perhaps played some of the teams

that we were hoping wouldn't give us such of a challenge it was really nice for those players to be able to play and do well. And I think overall our bowling unit, I just thought was absolutely sensational. I think it, you know, by that time we'd established, you know, two or three years maybe of fairly consistent players. And the bowling unit was very effective. And we also, like if I recall correctly, Emily was in really good form at that tournament, Anna O'Leary, who was opening. She had some really excellent scores and Rebecca Rawls who had been promoted to being an opener had done well as well.

So in all of those other matches, I think that different people stood up at different times, which was really pleasing. But I do remember like Anna and Emily had scored quite a lot of runs in some of those other matches, which you know you hope if you're getting towards semi-finals that that's going to, you know, carry on. Yeah, indeed the semi-final was against India, which turned out to be quite an emphatic victory. You went unbeaten. That first defeat to Australia was a mere blip in the opening game. after that you were unstoppable. Yeah, a nine-wicket win, India 117 all-out.

And did it feel then it was a bit of a formality to chase those runs down? I think so, yeah. To be honest, I mean, like, when you're playing a semifinal on a World Cup, you just want to win. But if you also, it wouldn't have hurt to, it wouldn't have hurt to be able to have a bit more of a batting innings, I suppose, because generally that's what wins you matches when you're scoring, you know, a lot more runs.

But look, it was emphatic in the fact that we just wanted to win the match and we did that. And, you know, a couple of individuals had good scores and it got us through to the final, because, you know, that's the first goal that you have in a tournament like that. The TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live. Bring more gear, carry more passengers, face greater challenges. Welcome to the world of Defender, with seating up to eight, ample cargo space, and legendary off-road capability. It's built to make the most of every adventure.

Learn more at landrover.ca. So the final is against the Aussies. You've lost the final of the previous two World Cups, including to Australia. You've lost in the opening game to the Aussies. You're up against them again. What's the approach? What was the mindset leading into it? I think just having confidence in our own ability.

But I think that I do recall that when we were in the church, changing room, you know, after we'd batted first and not scored as many runs as we'd wanted. There were probably a few people who were thinking, oh, no, not again. I think that would be fair to say that there were a few people like that. But, you know, the thing is that, you know, a few others of us were saying, look, we've got the runs on the board, let's just go out and defend it. And ultimately, you know, within two overs of our fielding innings, if I recall correctly again, we had two of their best players on the side out.

And so I think that when I look, I think probably just the belief, we had a terrific team and even to this day, you know, we could all get back into a room and just, you know, get on so well. I think that we basically just did it for each other, as corny as that might sound, that we were just such a tight unit and really, really, really wanted to play our best cricket for our mates that we've been on this journey with, including the four players who were on the sideline and everyone else. And once we got out onto the field, you know, our bowlers just kind of took over from where they had been in all of the other matches and backed up in the field.

And especially, you know, within those first couple of overs, Rebecca Rolls took a good catch in the first over to get Lisa Kightly out. And then Helen Watson just had an inspired piece of fielding, pick up and throw, got the absolute danger woman of Karen Rolfan run out, direct hit, non-strikers end. She was all old men, I tell you. Well, if I can read an extract from a report from the time, the final was described as the best final ever. The quotes here, New Zealand and possibly World Women's Cricket has never seen a finer moment. This was the advertisement for the sports that marketers give their right arms for.

It had everything. Fine, tight bowling, belligerence, effective batting. Now, as being compared to sort of the best World Cup final men, or women's that the game had seen because it did all come down to the final over. You've mentioned, you know, some of the great feats that happened there. And given that you were all out for 184,

I'm sure at that point, you worried that that was not going to be a winning score? Yes. Catherine Rammell, top, top scoring with 41. And you mentioned those early wickets, Lisa Kightley and Karen Rolton out earlier. But then you've got Belinda Clark, the Australian captain, scoring 91. Correct.

What were your memories over the course of that innings? Because knowing what she does in the quality of Belinda Clark, she took that, what, to the 42nd over until she was dismissed. How worried were you at that point? Well, as long as we keep getting the other people out, then, you know, as long as you get, as long as you're getting someone out, we, you know, she was always going to be a threat because she was such an excellent batter, such, you know, I loved watching her back.

She was, you know, she was a pain to us, but I loved watching, love watching good players back. And then, you know, it was all my, I don't know what would have been going through her mind because, you know, every, it was such a topsy to the game because every time they probably thought they were getting on top, we would then get a wicket and then it would come back in our favour. And I think that she must have been steering a little bit about how she was going to develop some good partnerships and get them over the line. And then Claire Nicholson basically bolder, bolder around the legs. If I recall correctly, she was probably trying to sweep very fine and got bold. And yeah, like you say, out for 91. And at that point, I think that

we were, you know, we had more belief that we were, if we could just hold on and do what we needed to do, but it was pretty nerve-wracking, I'll tell you. Well, the extra bit of drama around that final over, so it comes to the final over, five runs needed off six balls, and Emily Drum, your captain, thought initially that Claire Nicholson had bowled her allocation of overs. That's right. Do you remember that? She was going to turn to Hady Tiffin.

That's correct. That's correct. And I think that, I think Haiti probably had the ball on her hand. And then I'm not quite sure who, I just don't recall who came to realize that Claire hadn't actually bowled her ten overs, whether someone checked with the umpire or whatever. But I tell you what, I think Haiti threw that ball back faster than you'd ever see. And then Claire, Claire took it on. And, you know, I, I, um, I've repeated the same.

many times that, you know, when someone is bowling in the, you know, the last over match and how many times do you hear people to say that it needs to be full and straight? And so you're thinking, oh, full and straight, you know, they only need to get five runs. And then, you know, what does she do? She actually started, almost started to run in. And then we had another hold up because there was another change in the field. And, you know, and then, you know, you're looking for the full and straight ball. And what does she do?

but she bowls it short and wide outside the off stump, which, which to be fair, when you're bowling to a number 10 or 11 batter, probably more difficult to negotiate. And, yep, got the, got the edge and a, you know, fabulous catch. Yeah, she's on a amazing caught behind catch and it stuck. And, yeah, happy days.

Yeah. It was, like, even, you know, you're right. I think it, I was wondering if any other women's World Cup final had ever been, you know, like that close in terms of winning by four runs or whatever, and I don't think there is. And it's still, you know, like it's now 25 years ago, but the emotions are still exactly the same as if you were there. I was feeling down at long on, actually. I was waiting to take the winning catch. Didn't get the opportunity. But I remember, you know, it had been a long that was my fifth World Cup and

some of us had been and that was our third World Cup final in a row and I just walked in and I just sat down on the ground and probably had a few tears and just said thank goodness it was the feeling the sense of you can't

I just can't describe the sense of relief it was just yeah incredible and also knowing like I definitely knew that that was going to be my last game for New Zealand I knew that my really good mate Catherine Campbell that was going to be her last game and as it happened Katrina Keenan that was her last game and Claire Nicholson's as well so you know a bit of a end of an

era and yeah the sense of relief was just enormous but joy it was very cool and who was also there to share in that joy with you because we all know that for all of you cricketers there is a you know a personal backroom team there is family there as friends there are old coaches there are school teachers like yeah just yeah yeah um so um my partner helen at the time she was there but uh as well as that probably uh my mum and dad were both there and i was actually really thrilled that my mother had uh seen us win a world cup because when we when we made the final in um england in 1993 her triplet brothers uh flew her over just for the final and so she turned up just for the final it was the only game we lost

so i secretly always thought that she might have been a little bit of a bad lap charm so i never told i never told her that but i was i was so thrilled that we actually managed to win a world cup final when she attended so yeah it was it was yeah happy scenes at the end not not the stuff that you'd see now because um you know we played at the bert suck plofoval and there were you know, that was before the times where we had lots of, lots and lots of security. So when, you know, when that final catch was taken, instantly, the ground was just swarmed with our supporters. It's invasion. Yeah, the team was, the team, our team was standing in a huddle on the pitch in the middle, but just surrounded by family and friends.

I think Emily Drum's brother lifted her up onto her shoulders and carried her off the field. So, you know, those are all the sorts of memories that they're just a bit different from what happens now when you don't have that same type of, you know, it was so cool. It was so, so cool. And isn't it right that Emily Drum, your captain, it turned out she'd played the whole tournament with a broken finger. It had been broken by Catherine Fitzpatrick in the opening game. Yeah, she's gutsy, like really, really, really gutsy player. Yeah, yeah.

just one of our best bettas ever and it was just you know what what a thrill for her to be able to hold that trophy up yeah and then much like you in the previous world cup where you're on the losing side at player of the match belinda clark was given player of the match on the losing side so you have a bit of empathy with how she must have felt absolutely yeah it's like it's it's horrible actually because it's just yeah like your your phrase of bittersweet is just the, because look, when you, when you play and you're playing in a World Cup final, when you lose, it doesn't, you know, nothing's a consolation if that makes sense. Yeah. So what was the legacy, do you think, from that World Cup? What, what happened afterwards? Did you get a sense of an impact that your victory made on women's cricket in

the country? Yeah, yeah. I mean, the lovely thing was. was that on Boxing Day, I think it was, there was a test match up at the Basin Reserve in Wellington, and we all got flowing up there, and like at lunchtime got to parade around with the World Cup, and had a lovely reception from the crowd, which was really, really special for us. And I think, you know, we'd been trying to win that World Cup

for a long time. So I think it just really raised the profile within New Zealand further of women's cricket and just inspired a lot of young girls and young boys to take up the game and just keep really interested in how we were going from there. Did you feel it was a sort of step in the right direction in terms of where the game has got to now? I mean, New Zealand has not really kept up the pace in terms of the, the professionalism of, say, Australia domestic set up, the England domestic set up.

But can you still see that that was a significant milestone in terms of raising that profile and ensuring that more people and the right people took note? Oh, yes, absolutely. Yeah, I think that, you know, there was a lot of investment in that tournament, and I think that, you know, I'd like to think that we helped to repay that. And I think, you know, in the intervening 25 years, there's been, you know, great strides made. And, you know, look, we were, I think we were, you know, we were really grateful that when New Zealand cricket and New Zealand Women's Cricket Council emalgamated, I think it was back in about 93. Things, you know, things really improved for us as the New Zealand women's cricket team since that time.

And I think after 2000, yeah, it just kept paving the way for, for improvements. And not only for us, actually, interesting, I'm just thinking, because we are talking about New Zealand, but someone like England, for example, who didn't make the semi-final, that was a pivotal point for England then investing a lot more and thinking, gosh, we're a bit behind the eight ball here and look at how they've gone as well. So even though New Zealand, even though, you know, our legacy of that team was for inspiration of people going forward, it just shows the benefit to me of, you know, sort of having well-cut tournaments for all different teams and how you can make improvements and go forward. And you went on to become the first female president of New Zealand cricket as well.

That must have been very proud time for you as well all those years later. Yeah, it was. I love New Zealand cricket. They are so, you know, they're just, I just, I really admire them and respect them. They're so forward thinking. You know, first, I think I was actually the first female president of any national, you know, cricketing organisation in the world. And I was so shocked.

Stephen Bock and Richard Hadley, I think, might have put their heads together and thought that I might have been a reasonable person for it. And I was so shocked, but it was, it was. was such an excellent experience. So, gosh, you know, since I've, since I've finished playing, Ellie, I reckon that I've had just about, or apart from the World Cup, nothing could be better than that. But I've had so many fabulous opportunities and things that have happened, you know, whether it's been, you know, with, you know, president or, you know, having commentating opportunities. So I'm just a, I'm just a, I'm a lucky girl. That's the way I view it.

And did you share the same sense of pride when the New Zealand women finally won a World Cup trophy again with the T20 World Cup just last year? I absolutely did. And, you know, I looked at people like Susie Bates and Sophie Devine and Leah Tahoo. And it reminded me of people like me and Catherine and Emily when you've played for a long time. And when you play for a long time and you have that desire to. to try and win the, you know, the pinnacle events, which are World Cups. I mean, we didn't play T20s, so we didn't have that World Cup to play for. But when you've tried and tried and tried and you finally get there, you just think,

I know how that feels. And that was such a lovely thing to be able to say when I saw, you know, the three of them giving each other a hug. But the whole team, you just, you can, you know, you're one of the other 15 people who can say, I really know how that feels and good on you. Special, special times. Debbie Hockley, thanks so much for sharing your memories of the 2000 World Cup. Thank you for the opportunity.

Well, that's it for this episode of the TMS podcast. Make sure you subscribe so you get a notification every time we upload. Also, check out the rest of the Women's World Cup podcasts we've done, as they're available on the TMS feed right now, as is the latest episode of No Balls with Kate Cross and Alex Hartley. And while you're on BBC Sounds, search for BBC Stumped while you're there. Thanks for listening. Speak to you next time.

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