Test Match Special - How To Win The Ashes: Glenn McGrath on the 1997 series

Episode Date: June 13, 2023

In the penultimate episode, Glenn McGrath takes us back to the 1997 Ashes where he demolished England’s batting order, taking 36 wickets as Australia secured a 3-2 series victory.He describes his excitement at joining one of the great Australian Test sides, why Lord’s is the “perfect” ground for him and why that Australia side was so dominant against England.

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I'm so excited for the second series, Ben. He's going to be so excited. bigger and better this year. We've got the Lioness as England manager, Sabrina. Wow, as if we've got Serena. I'm happy that I've seen her a couple of times after the Euros.

More on TV than in life. You can see her now here. Let's not forget as well, we've got to hear about all your antics in the jungle too. Every now and then, there'd just be a tannoy going, Jill, you are not allowed to leave camp that way. So I was constantly getting in trouble.

Jill Scott's Coffee Club. Listen on BBC Sounds. BBC Sounds, music, radio, podcasts. Hello, welcome to this Test Match special podcast series, How to Win the Ashes. Some of cricket's greatest players are telling us what it takes to be victorious in the sports' biggest battle of them all.

The new dawn has broken, has it not? Love shine a light in every corner of my heart. The United Kingdom with an amazing score of 227 points are in fact the winners of the 1997 Eurovision Song Contest Let our love shine a light in every corner of our hearts The IRA has announced a complete secession of all military action from midnight tonight. Hingus with a forehand cross-court. Game Zed matters for Ingus deserves the ones.

Wimbledon has its youngest singles winner this century. Now Hong Kong people are to run Hong Kong. It's June 1997, Tony Blair's new Labour have just swept to power. The UK has won the Eurovision Song Contest. and the first Harry Potter book has gone on sale. At Edgebaston, Glenn McGraw is making his first overseas Ashes appearance. It's already been a decade since England last won the Ashes series. Could McGra and Co keep up Australia's dominance? The TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live.

I came into the team in 93-94 and I think the Australian team had turned the corner for quite some time. I remember when Alan Borter took over from Kim Hughes and Australia were a bit of a rebel then and they really, I think AB along with Bob Simpson, really brought the Australian team up and created a bit of an awe around it, self-belief. May strides in again. Little hop-skip jump bowls to Ireland,

who hits this in the air, down the ground. This could be out. The test has been won by Australia and who is it that took the catch, none other, than Alan Border, the Australian skipper. Australians have won by an innings and 148 runs. They take a 3-0 lead in the series. They have now well and truly retained the Ashes.

And when I came into the team, the team was already playing well. And then to play along some of my heroes, I've watched for a long time in, you know, Alan Bauder and David Boone and Craig MacDermott and co. It was amazing. And it just was continuing on the up. And lucky to play in an era where we didn't lose very many series at all. Gooch just enjoying the moment.

It'll be his last test match here. And he's going to bowl the last ball of it. And he runs in now and bowls to Shane Warren, who drives, and he's been dropped by Devin Malcolm at wide mid-off. Well, if anything sums it up, that does. That could have been Gooch's wickets. Shane Warren was dropped off the very last ball. It wouldn't have made any difference as far as the match was concerned

because that was the last ball of the final over and Australia had retained the ashes. Yeah, when you're winning on a regular basis, you learn how to win, you get that confidence and you don't even doubt that you wouldn't win. And I always try to have a bit of fun and make the odd prediction probably more to the latter part of my career.

But I believed that if the Australian team went out and played as well as I could, then we shouldn't lose the series. To be honest, we shouldn't lose the test match. That's the way I felt. And so those predictions, I thought, were quite easy to make. Here comes Shane Warren. Off only two or three paces. He bowls and Gatting is taking on the pennies.

Bowled. Well, Gatting's still standing there. He can't believe it, but that must have turned a very long way. Someone like Shane Warren, who's one of the greatest cricketers to have played. And to have someone like Warnie in the team, you know, just his, you know, he's charisma, his attitude, he's, you know, never-beaten attitude, you can win from any situation and he loved, I guess, the theatre of it all and just he was amazing to having the team and to have at the other end

gave me a lot of confidence and together we could build up pressure. So someone like Shana, who was just an ultimate competitor and just incredible cricketer, Adam Gilchrist coming in at number seven, could just either get us back in the game or take the game away from the oppositional luxury. no, I felt no other team had at that time. Gilchrist swings and he hits it long and high. See you later.

That's way over the boundary. It's almost down the street, that one. Breaking punding, you can go through the wars. Dawson comes up and bowls to war who drives, and drives through the offside for his hundred. That is extraordinary. And then alongside my other fast bowling teammates in Jason Gillespie, Brett Lee and Co. Gillespie, a big jump, he bowls outside.

The off stamp and Prince Offs out. He's caught behind. I heard it from here. It was a strong unit, but the thing I think I enjoyed most was we probably spent more time with each other than we did with our own family. So we became a very close unit. And I always spoke to a few of my teammates about what made us successful. And they, you know, a few of the guys said it was because we really cared about each other. And I think that's important.

But I felt that we enjoyed each other's success. success as much as our own. And if you've got a team or a unit, no matter if it's in sport or the workplace, where you can really gel like that and enjoy each other's success as much as your own, then you're definitely on a winner. And that's what that Australian team had. And it was, it was good fun. Here comes Darren Goff to bowl the first ball of the series. He bowls to Taylor who's beaten outside the off-stum. And listen to the roar around Edgison as that one flies past the outside edge. And Darren Goff follows through there. I contact, I suspect, between bowler and batsman and why not. This is what test cricket's all about, and we've waited for this. Yeah, so 97 was my first Asher series, and I was pretty excited coming over. We landed first test edge, Baston. Eleven without loss.

Here comes Goff again and bowls to Elliot. It is bowled him. First blood for Darren Goff. He goes Malcolm again, bowling across Taylor, who is just a second slip and is caught by Butcher. We didn't bowl very well, we didn't bat very well. Here's Caddigan again. He makes Rubber, swings this, and it's gone high in the air down to third man. Malcolm's underneath it. He's going to be caught. He has been caught. Malcolm has held it. So Warner's gone for 47. Australia are all out for 118.

Beautifully straight driven by Nassar Hussein for his 36-4. Cut away by Hussein and there's his double hundred. Cut through third man. He's hammered away into the onside field. This might be four. It runs down to the boundary and it is. Four rounds. A century for Thorpe here. Warne turns out at the far end and comes in and Bowles to Stuart is tossed up outside. The off-stop is driven through Exoccolour for four.

And Stuart stands there with arms and loft for a moment. He shakes hands of the Ian Healy. Has all round the ground, hundreds of people come running onto the Edgewiston playing area. We lost that test by nine wickets. I think there was a few things said in the media about the Australian team and this and that, especially after what happened in 93, 89, where Australia was so dominant. The day after, I remember Jeff Marsh, who was our coach, got us all the fast bowlers out into the middle at Edgebast

and prepared a centre wicket, and we bowled off our long run for like nearly two hours about getting the right length. And that's probably what we needed. Then we went off to Lords, the first game at Lords, and things turned around. Here comes McGrault. Bowles to Butcher. And he's edged that, in fact, I think he might. may have played into his pad. It's been taken by short leg, Blewett, and England lose their first

wicket. From there, Australia were dominant in that series. McGraar again, and Atherton, Nixon has caught it, slipped by Taylor. Quality bowling. He's really in the groove now. Then goes McGraff. Once again, a ball. Stewart is bowled. The ball is cut back. Stuart didn't play a shot. And England, a 13 for three. In comes McGraths to him and beats him outside the off-stam, but in fact he's got the edge and Crawley is out.

We went off for a break and I had four wickets and the first ball after the break I was bowling to NASA. The first ball of this next session of this test match is underway. In goes McGrath. I ran in bowled at full and it hit him on the pad in front and middle off. And he bowls and a say he struck on the pad. He must be out. He is. Leg before wicket. And umpars Shebert had his finger up in a flash while we gave him out from here quite frankly. 62 for 6. And knew it was going on to hit the stumps.

David Shepherd gave him out and I had five wickets and I knew my name was going up on the board alongside some of the greats of all time and that was a special note. A terrific breakthrough for Australia. Not a very good shot from Hussain. He played all around that. My first innings at Lords, it was probably perfect. We'd worked out what length we should be bowling

because we bought rubbish at Edgebaston. Overhead conditions, which is always great. the ball does a little bit more and the slope at Lord. So everything for me was probably perfect. Then comes McGraw and bells and he flashes at that and he's out. He's caught behind. McGraw has taken his sixth wicket short and he's hooked. He's going to be caught by the wicketkeeper.

Healy runs around and catches it. He goes McGraar again pounding across the turfy. Bowls of full length to Caddick. He appeals to the OBW and he's got his eighth wicket. England all out for 77. To then go on and get another three was a bit of icing on on top. And a fabulous performance here by Glenn McGrath, his best test figures by a considerable margin. And this from a man that was thought by a lot of us to be terribly out of form,

he burst back in the most amazing way. Walking back and coming up, you know, as you walk off, you sort of wave to the crowd, then you come up into the long room and they're all going, oh, well done, old chap, and you're getting a bit of a clap and sort of coming through. And Glenn McGra will get a memorable reception here from the members. They love. their cricketed lords and obviously they're going to say to this man very very well done. got up to the top of the stairs into the change rooms and they'd already up on the board in you know the tape that we tape our ankles up with was up on the board yeah my name eight for 38 so yeah it was a very special a lot of fond memories there the applause that he's getting now

will live with him for the rest of his life and he looks up to his teammates on the balcony with a very Big Smile. Well done Glenn McGrath and here's the reception. The Lords is an amazing place. I think for any touring cricket, especially the Australian team, there's something very special. Coming to Lords home of cricket, just a tradition, the history, everything that goes into what Lords is, is amazing. To walk up the stairs into the change rooms, to then walk out in the field, down the stairs, through the long room, through all the, you know, the MCC members with their egg and bacon tires and jackets on, is quite unique as well.

And you walk out in the field and I always like bowling from the members end. And the slope went from my left to right. For my style of bowling, I just put it outside off stump. Someone hold their line and continue on. Others would come down the slope. So it was, I always felt it was a perfect pitch made for my style of bowling. And the other thing that's quite unique, When you stand at the top of your mark, if you're bowling, at the start of a test match,

and normally I would just take my time, and then the noise and the atmosphere would build, and I always felt that it put a little bit more pressure on the bats when it's building, it's building, it's building, and then you run in and bowl. At Lords, you can hear a pin drop. You're standing there waiting, you're waiting for the atmosphere to build, nothing's happening, you feel like a bit of an idiot, okay, I better go out and bowl, but the Australian players always lifted when we came to Lords. Here's Croft again and he tosses this up and Elliot's down the pitch driving. He'll take the single here and he's going to get there as well.

Matthew Elliott has reached his first century in test cricket and he's done so at Lords and I would think that maybe apart from scoring your first test century on your home ground. I think most people in the world of cricket would choose Lords as number two. Up in the change room I remember Steve Wall said choose your seat and I quickly grabbed the one near the window on the right-hand side window as you walk in locking straight down the pitch and that was my seat every single game

I've played there and I guess that says a lot about cricketers with their little idiosyncrasies and superstitions but Lords is a very special place and in goes Bevan that's bowled on the leg stump Thorpe comes forward and plays it back to the bowler now Mark Taylor's asking

Mark Taylor's saying what's going on chaps Thorpe has tucked his bat under his arm and that is it the match ends as a draw what an irony it is that it's ended in this beautiful sunshine, a game that really was ravaged and will remember sadly for the terrible weather. After Edgebaston where we perform badly, lords where we really turned things around, but sort of the match was seriously affected by the weather, so he didn't get a result and then off to Old

Traff. Steve War is on 97. Croft bowles to him and he goes back and cuts and that's 100. That's a beautiful shot. Out to the cover boundary, War shakes his fist in the air in triumph. Here comes Headley again, bowls to Gillespie, who edges and he's caught by the keeper. Sixth catch to Alex Stewart, and the Australian innings is over at 235 all-out. Shane Warren to continue, and the ball is off the edge to slip, and it's caught brilliantly by Taylor Stewart is out. Here comes Warren, and he's got off stuck on the pad, he's out leg before wicket this time. That may have been a full toss, in fact, but Gough again was on the front foot. There's the Yorker in his bowled. It's all over.

The innings has been wrapped up very professionally by the Australians, so they lead by 73. There's no war waits now as Croft comes dancing in and bowls, and he's flicked out through Midwicket. There's his century, and that really is a landmark for Steve Waugh. It's going out towards the boundary at Deep Midwicket. It won't go all the way, but he'll come back for the third. And Old Trafford now rises for Steve Waugh, who's become the first batsman for 50 years to score a century in each innings of an Ash's test match. a great series. Stephen, I think every time he came in, Australia were three for 30. So our

opening batsman hadn't performed as well as we probably would have liked, but Stephen, he loves the pressure. He went out there and he never gives an inch and two amazing hundreds there. And, you know, when your batsmen fight like that and then all of a sudden, you know, the bowlers are doing the job, you know, there's bowling well, a bit in the pitch, a bit of reverse swing, Warnie's come out, spinning it and we knock England over a couple of times. All eyes for the bell. Yes, he's declaring, he's holding up his hand and he's waving them in. I actually saw it.

And so the declaration has come. 395 for 8. The target is 469. That is what England need to win. More realistically, I think they've got to think in terms of batting for the best part of five sessions to save the match. Heelham edges and it's caught it slip by Healy. So the first wicket falls.

And here is McGaragney Bowes and that's played away in the Antigone's enemy court. Croft is caught a backward short leg by rifle. It was short. He didn't play it at all well. 170 for seven. Next ball to Caddick and he hits this in the air to midon. Out. Australia win the test match by 268 runs to square the series at one test match apiece.

To get our first win under the belt, we just seem to get growing confidence each game and that just, that series was probably over then. Here's Gillespie again. He bowls to Crawley and that's a catch of short leg by Blue at a sensational catch. Yeah, I think just the way Jason Gillespie bowled was amazing. You know, he's just bowled with pace, with venom. Anyway, let's watch Gillespie. Coming in from the far end to Hedley, who drives at his court in the gully.

easily taken by Steve War as Gillespie comes motoring in again and bowls a small dear Smith clean bold and he took a little step away to the leg stump there and completely lost his off stump has been blown out of the ground

Gillespie has taken his seventh wicket he's the hero of the morning here for Australia England are all out for 172 to pick up seventh third deserved it you know Mattie Elliott 199 so close to that double hundred Elliot drags this ball from outside off to the deep square leg boundary

no matter how many he gets here he's past 150 he's going to get a couple of runs they'll come back for the third as the fieldsman out there that smith slips so with three runs matthew elliott reaches another milestone he's 152 now next ball to elliott he's bolding absolutely played over the top of that trying to work it through the onside to midwicket and elliott's grand innings has stopped one short of a double hundred off comes in he bills to ponting well pitched up and there goes the drive off the front foot four Through Kavab. I never thought the Australian team went in to win. They went in to play the best brand of cricket. And if they could do that, then I felt pretty much every time. If we played as well as we could, then we were going to win the match. Here's Croft, and Ponting turns around the on time.

A quick single taken here, and he's got his century. A moment, Ricky Ponting will never forget. So it wasn't whether we're going to win or lose this match. The attitude was we're going in, and we're going to play better than the opposition. And we're going to win the, not only the test match, for the series. He comes McGra again. And he plays and misses.

He's out as he caught behind the Australian start the celebrations. Butcher just looked around eventually. I don't really believe he needed the bad news from the umpire. He knew he'd nick that. McGra picks up the first wicket. I think it was that attitude that sort of held us in good stead over that period, as I mentioned before, a lot of incredible players. And a lot of teams may have one or two guys in the team that can really win it,

you know, match winners, I guess you could call them. but the Australian team of that era I always felt had 11 match winners out there and when you have that you can form a pretty strong unit too Income, so that's the end of Atherton and probably the end of England very well bowed by Glenn Magr

28 for two The team was playing with confidence and yeah back to business as usual fingers rifle and bowls to Croft is caught behind first ball the first ball of this session Robert Croft is caught behind by

healy of the bowling of rifle and it's all over. England are all out for 268. So Australia have won by an innings and there's 61 runs. I think the way the Australian team were playing, we deserved it. We'd been playing some good cricket. We had that self-belief. I think England were on the back pedal. They didn't know how to combat it. And Holyoke is on his way in. Passed on par Mitchley. He's there. He bows, Bluett drives down the ground for four runs. Headley bows again and bowed him. Absolutely straight through him. Glenn McGrath took a swing. Middle stumped, not back.

McGraw, bowled by Headley for one, Australia, all out for 427. McGraw in again. He's there. He bows to... Oh, my bowled him. That's bowled him. That is the end of it. Malcolm jumped around in the crease.

And that was the straight ball that ended it all. England, 313 all out. Here comes Holly Oak, and that's played round the corner by Blewett. That's his 50. Goes down to Caddicate Longleg. One run there. So Bluitt has got 50 against his name. Croft ambles in again from the Radcliffe end,

and Healy rolls this out to backward square leg. That's his 50. Wonderful 50 by Ian Healey. Next ball to rifle, and he goes for a big hit in the air, out to Deep Midwicket. And he's caught out there by Ben Holyoke, and the Australian innings is over. Alex Stewart gallops off the ground.

Australia, all out for 336. England will need 451 runs, to win. Always enjoyed bowling to Ather's, to Michael Atherton. Let's watch McGraw bowling yet. To Atherton as a snorter and he's caught behind. Oh my word, what a delivery that was. I knocked Ather's over a few times throughout my career and probably had the wood on him a little bit at the end. But yeah, opening bowler's job is to get the opening batsman out. So I felt that I'd done that okay. Devin Malcolm, here's the roar of the crowd and watches McGraw roaring towards him and he's out

caught at slip and the Australians have won the series by three matches to one. They've taken five series in a row against England now. They've won the Ashes. Three test matches to one with only the Oval to go. The jubilation in this great Australian team is there to behold. They are hugging one another. It's a marvellous moment of quite a young team. Look at Glenn McGrath. Great smile on his face. My memory of that is Warnie going out the front and dancing with the stump. stop above the head, you know, which was Shano to a T and, you know, the crowd, you know, getting stuck into him, but he absolutely loved it. So, yeah, there was a lot of, that was a special

moment. The Australians very clearly the better team in the series. They lost the Edge Baston test. They had the better of the draw at Lords and have won three consecutive test matches to take out the 1997 Ashes series by a margin of three tests to one. The Ashes are secured for Australia. in those the middle four matches because it was a six test series was you know we played some exceptional cricket McGraw pulls around the wicket oh dear well Butcher's played on there if I think he's actually hit his wicked McGraw balls again Aetton is beaten by that it's an inside edge to the keeper he's out I always felt the bowler you know fast ball or whatever you want to say he controls what happens here comes McGraw then for his first

ball off lunge it cuts back and he's out steward his LBW you know that batsman can't do anything until the bowler runs in and bowls a ball. And if we bowl it full, then the batsman generally comes forward. If he bowls it short, the batsman goes back. In comes McGraw, running towards us again, and bowls to Hussain. Hit it in the air, and caught, well caught to low down at midon. Here's McGar again, round the wicket, and bowls to Thorpe is bowled. Bolled behind his legs and Thorpe looks aghast. Glenn McGrath has taken five wickets. And I wasn't overly quick. I didn't swing the ball much, but I had good control.

Here's McGraher again, and that's a lifting delivery, and that's off the thigh pedal, the bat, that's out. Caught by Blue at a Chouet leg, and McGraw takes his sixth wicket. I think you've got to have that self-belief, that confidence. Being a bowler, you need to have, being at the skill, to be able to bowl, you need to be physically fit and strong and attitude. In comes McGraw, Bowers again. Full length, he plays on. Off an inside edge, full length, he played a little push shot at it. McGrath has taken his seventh wicket.

All those things go into making a good bowler and I think if I had the choice again I'd be a bowler any day because I feel we control what happens out there. Casparvich was in now Bowles and is out no he's gone LBW he had a tremendous swing at that I thought he had to be given out. England on the point of tea are all out for 180. We got into a position in that final test to to win chasing 120 20 in the last inning is a bit more. Here's Cassavich now and bowls to Malcolm is bowled him, legs stump out of the ground.

Congratulations to Michael Kastrovich. 124 required by England to win. And toughers, I think, bowled us out. We sort of let things slip. Tuffel Bowls. Oontat, Bonding, can't do it. He's gone. And now we have Tufnell,

and he's moving in and bowling to McGraw, who hits it in the air towards midoff, and the catch is taken. And he'll have won the match. McGraar is out. What a stunning victory. To finish that series, 4-1 I thought would have been probably a better would be a better way to finish off

3-2 you know so be it it was still a win quite a dominant win but yeah it took a little bit of shine off at the end Australia of course have taken the series 3-2 but what a match to finish the summer it's been a terrific summer of cricket I was happy with way I performed in my first Asher series to to finish that With the series win, I think I got, you know, the Australian player at the time, they give one to each, which is always interesting in the ashes. But yeah, it was very satisfying to come out to England and to perform well in these conditions. Yeah, so I always loved playing cricket in England and bowling in England is nearly the perfect conditions.

The TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live. That was the latest episode of How to Win the Ashes, and you can watch the documentary in full now on the BBC Eye Player. Don't forget, there's full coverage of the Ashes and the women's ashes coming up this summer across the BBC on radio, TV and online, including commentary on every ball on test match. Hello, it's Jason Manford here, and I'm Steve Edge. And this is Best Men.

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