Test Match Special - IPL Pod Ep 5: Roy of the Riders, rubbish run chases and full time IPL players?

Episode Date: April 28, 2023

Simon Mann is joined by IPL commentator Nikesh Rughani and former IPL player Ravi Bopara to discuss the latest talking points from the Indian Premier League.Could some players turn their back on England central contracts or county ties to sign for an IPL franchise all year round? They chat about that as well as getting reaction from the ECB’s head of County cricket Neil Snowball.Plus rubbish run chases and Jason Roy in form for the Kolkata Knight Riders.

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Surely that's another run out. What on earth has happened here for the Lucknow Super Giants? Is that potentially four wickets and four balls as well? Yeah, that's four wickets and four balls we're looking at. Ashwin around the wicket, flattar, swung away in the air again. This should be another six. Into the crowd, it goes. Ashwin, looking to dart that one in a bit quicker.

Catch Shimdube off guard. He's up to the challenge. Last ball of the over. sweeping. Don't worry about that. That's got miles. Over the leg side. Halfway back, the lower tier. Four, six of the O from Jason Roy. Colcata Knight Rider's. Sixty-six without loss. Roy, 48 from 20. You can hear live IPL coverage on five sports extra and BBC sounds. And I'm joined by two members of our comedy team, Nikesh Raghani and former IPL player Ravibo Parra to discuss the latest talking points from the tournament, plus how possible IPL expansion could have a significant impact on the future

of international cricket. IPL cricket on five sports extra. Well, I think there's only one place to start this week, and that is with the story that was in the times that initial discussions have taken place after at least six English players, including some international stars, were approached by IPL franchise owners and asked whether in principle they would accept a deal that would make an Indian team their main employer rather than the ECB or an English county. What do you make of that, Ravi?

This was coming. This has been a chat in the county circuit and around cricket in general that this was always going to happen, especially when the IPO team started acquiring teams around the world. So, you know, the South African League and then the major league in, America coming up. We had already seen them acquired teams in the CPL. And that was just the start of it, really. They were sort of testing the wars, I guess,

with buying teams in the CPL so they can recruit, you know, West Indian players when they come through, when they're new. So it was happening. And it hasn't surprised me at all that this has come about. And there's been offers or discussions, if you want to call it, with some of the English players that have come up. I'm sure Josh Butler will be part of that conversation. Sam Curran will probably be another.

We can't exactly pinpoint exactly who. But those two would definitely be a part of that discussion. So no, it doesn't surprise me. And it's a real thing to start thinking about for the players. Because it's big money. And if they're offering long-term contracts, I'm talking three-year contracts, four-year contracts, even five-year contracts. Now, it's a serious subject to start thinking about as a player.

Do you give up your English rights for that? If you're one of those players that's coming to the end of his England career, you know, you've had a good England career and you're sort of thinking, maybe I've got only two or three years left in the England side, then you might be thinking, actually, this is a better option for me. if you're someone who's just starting at your England career that's a serious dilemma

because there's no guarantee you're going to play for England there's no guarantee you're going to play five, ten years for England because there's people who are out there to take you, you've got no contract with England they just pick you if they want to pick you

if you're playing well then you get picked but there's no guarantees at least with this contract there's guarantees you've got a three year contract you've got a four year five year contract it's guaranteed and that's going to be the difficult thing what would you have done

when you were playing for England? Good question. I had a similar situation. I won't say similar, but I had a situation back then with Mumbai Indians. So I had a call from the great man himself, Satchin, said, oh, could you come over and play for Mumbai? It was a replacement sort of thing.

Because I can't remember if I entered the auction at that stage because I was playing test cricket. So, you know, I had put my priorities for. for test cricket but I was sort of on the on the brink of being picked or not being picked for England and I got a call from him and then I remember calling up Graham Gooch and saying look I've had a call from Mumbai Indians they want me to come and play in the IPL so he said oh you're going to have to make it it's a tough choice because your test matches coming up and you know do you want to play test cricket because you're going to have to play county

cricket before you know get selected so I was sort of thinking about then spoke to Andy, Andy said, look, if you go to the IPO, then you won't be considered to play the test matches in the summer. Okay. So it was a tough decision, but so then I turned it down. So I said, look, I'm going to go for test cricket. I didn't get picked in test cricket that summer. So I'd missed out on the IPO contract and missed out on playing for England, which was a bitter pill, really, because I was thinking, damn, you know, I've I've missed out on both there. trying to be loyal and then it's sort of stuck with me from that day onwards that that really it's just a business everything's just a business really and you can't rely on other people to to select you you're better off taking the contracts that are guaranteed because there's there is no guarantees you're going to get picked for England so I mean that's the that's the dilemma that I was in back then and if if you ask me now 37 years old

100% I'll take the I appeal contract without even thinking. I'll just say, where's the paper? I'll sign it right now. Nick Hache, what's the situation as far as the BCCI is concerned? There's lots of talk about a Saudi Arabian link up. I mean, all sorts of things that happen. There's a lot of speculation and perhaps there's not enough detail at the moment. There are a lot of reports around.

And they're really interesting the way the game is going. And a year-long contracts or two, three-year contracts is one thing. a link up with Saudi Arabia. We've seen in the Gulf where players have been bought really, haven't they? Could Saudi Arabia buy Indian players against the wishes of the BCCI or would there have to be some kind of partnership between the two organisations? Well, certainly they've got the money to potentially be able to do that in the future. The only confirmed bit of news that we've got is that the BCCI have put out a statement

amid all these reports about a Saudi Arabian league saying that Indian players will definitely not be made available for that. These are, they say Indian players, but BCCI contracted players. But that's the big issue, isn't it? How long will they be BCCI contracted players if the landscape changes? And really interesting points that Ravi was making as well. I think the landscape has changed so much

since when he was playing test cricket for England and that period that he spoke about. We're getting to a situation now almost where T20 international cricket might become null and void outside of World Cup years. Or, you know, not even World Cup years, they probably just won't be bilateral series. You might have a couple of warm-ups with the national side before a tournament. ODI cricket, after this coming World Cup in 2023, how important is that going to be, especially when it comes to bilateral cricket between nations?

Are we getting to a stage where whiteball international cricket will just be World Cups? And aside from that, we'll have test cricket. cricket, hopefully, fingers crossed, and we can still have some sort of world test championship. Even that is up for debate because you look at most countries make huge losses from that. So we're getting to a situation where it's very similar to football and you know, you are contracted to a club essentially in football and you go and play for your national side if your club gives you permission to do so. So I'm not sure about players not having that loyalty and that sort of affecting their international careers, I think if the shift happens in the way that I

expect it to happen, certainly in the next 10 or 15 years, this is going to be a thing. And maybe we will see Indian players go to other leagues around the world if that does happen because the BCCI won't necessarily need them for six, eight months a year to play bilateral white ball cricket. And they can go and play in the MLS in America or, sorry, MLC, South African League, UAE league, Saudi Arabian League, they might even be made available. to come to England in the future, depending what happens with domestic cricket over here. So it could happen, at the moment, though, the only confirmed bit of news is that the BCCI says,

no, BCCI contracted players are not allowed to do that. But if the Saudis went to the players themselves and said, I don't know how much Viat Kodi's being paid by, for his BCCI contract, but say he was being paid $5 million a year. And the Saudis said, well, okay, we'll give you 10 million pounds a year. We'll double your money. And you come and play for us and we control you. that is tempting. You know, you're almost buying the game. Good point. I mean, somebody like a Viracoli, look, he makes tens of millions from commercials. So he doesn't need that extra

five million as a yearly contract from somebody. And, you know, so I don't think it would affect somebody like him, but it's the younger players. You're right. The more younger up-and-coming players, they might be on a sort of C-grade type contract with the BCCI, and then they might play a few one-day internationals, a few T-20s every year. And, you know, what England players used to call an incremental contract, that sort of thing. And yes, certainly if you get a young Indian player, sort of early 20s, just making his way into international cricket, not quite earning that top-tier money, both for a country or in the IPL,

and then the Saudis come and say, well, offer you five million pounds a year, then it's a different question, because if that's a five-year contract or a four-year contract, that is their future pretty much secure. It's a tough decision to make, and you could see some of them going for it if that does happen. Ravi, do you see a situation in the future where it is franchise contract and then windows for players to play international cricket? Is it inevitable? I can see it happening.

The thing that comes into my mind is then you're going to start getting egos here. So they'll say, well, hold on, you've committed to franchise cricket, therefore we won't select you in the England team. And I don't see the reason why it's, It has to be like that. You want to pick the best England team to win the game of cricket on the day. It doesn't matter whether that person's committed to an IPL team and said, no, I don't want an ECB contract.

I want to play franchise cricket. But I'm one of your best players in the country, so you should still pick me to win a game of cricket for England. That's how it should be, because that is the basics of selection. Not about, well, we're only going to pick people who are loyal to us. Because how does that help you win a game of cricket? it doesn't you want the best players playing um so at the end of the day people human beings sport whatever is going to follow the money cricket's going to follow the money it just it's going to happen it always happens um and it's just a matter of who's going to pay more in the end it always

comes down to that um that is the basics of of of business um is where's the money where's the money show me the money and that is where people will go that's where the sport will go and we just got to be prepared for that okay let's move on it's been a fascinating week in the IPL some great performances and some really eye-catching matches as well

no more so when the Lucknow Super Giants failed to make the mid-130 score they needed to take down the defending champions Gujarat Titans Kail Rahul played his part in that he made 68 of 61 balls they need 31 to win off 36 with nine wickets in hand. I mean, it's almost unbelievable that they didn't win the game.

Have you ever played in a game like that? I have, in fact, and it was only last year. I can recall the game against Gloucester. Similar situation, we needed 30, probably 35 from about 40 balls with eight wickets in hand. We had a guy set on 80. We had another guy set on about 20. So it was pretty much game over.

I remember Stephen Finn saying, I said to Stephen Finn, I said, I don't think this game's over. And he said to me, dog, in his words, dog, I'll get my pads on. Now, and I'll come off for you. 20 minutes later, he had his pads on. And he had to walk out to bat, and we still needed 15 runs to win. And it was, when you lose a game like that, it is demoralizing. You just think, well, where's the responsibility?

How do you lose? I don't care how bad the wicket is. How do you lose a game from that position? Well, how do you lose a game from that position? really know because it's such a hard one to explain because I guess it is people don't take responsibility they just think okay the games over someone else will do it I'll hit a few sixes make an impact here whatever and then one does it and it's like okay he gets out and then another one comes in he says oh well we only need 30 we've got loads of people I'll have a

little dip and then he gets out and then it just keeps happening and keeps happening and before you know you're under pressure you know hold on we could lose this game and the sudden Pressure starts playing a funny, funny game, and then you find the guys that can't handle the pressure down the back, and you can't expect lower all the batters to score the runs, and then you suddenly lose the game, and it's a killer because you go back in the changing room, and that day I'd lost it. That's the first time in a long time where I really was frustrated with the team, and I just had no words for it. I did a live interview at the time, it's because of a TV game. and I said

I haven't seen that's the worst cricket I've ever seen in my entire career over the 20 odd years over the 400 odd games in T20 cricket that's the worst I've seen

and it seems like that was the same situation the other day for Lucknow you shouldn't lose from that position you just shouldn't and look

Kail Rahul probably feels the same way ultimately he top scored and nobody else really contributed with the bat with any kind of significant scores. But the only issue with Kail Rahul, and I suppose one of the reasons why he's been getting so much stick on social media

in the Indian TV channels, who we know about the wall-to-wall IPL coverage over there, he's got form for this. The last three or four years, his strike rate has come down considerably in both IPL cricket, in international T20 cricket as well. As an opener, Ravi, I wonder what your thoughts are on this.

is his game suited he's a proper cricketer he's he's a classy player he's got all the shots is it a mental thing is he is he cut out for this opening in t20 cricket in the ipel it's such a great question because he's got the technique he's got the stroke play to be an opener and score big scores get you the old 80s those 90s that win you games or cricket does he put too much value on his wicket i think so i think he just puts a little bit too much value on his own wicket he wants to be a run getter and almost goes the other way and puts his team in a little bit of danger in a way just because he wants to score those big runs and you know he obviously enjoys scoring runs he's a batsman you know he's a test player he's used to score in big

runs and he's not used to getting 30 or 15 balls and being happy um because sometimes you walk out and you come back with 30 on the board and you think i haven't done anything that's that's nothing. I'm used to score in hundreds. So maybe he puts a little bit too much value on his wicket. And maybe for someone like that, to make him go the opposite direction, you almost got to put them maybe lower down the order and say, look, you're going to come in at number six when he's got five overscore. There's not much value on your wicket then. And then you might see the best of him. And if he goes and does that for a bit, and then can come back to opening and go, okay, now I've learned and realized that my value, that maybe I'm putting too much value

my wicket. I actually can put the ball at the park more often than I think I can. I can play more aggressively. I can play more risky than I think I can. It might be the best thing for him. So that could be an option. Maybe it's a forced change and say, look, you're going to go down the order, you're going to about a five and six where there's less balls left and you're going to have to get on with it. Good draft defending champions. I mean, they're a tidy side and they pulled off a remarkable win. What about Hardik Pandia

potentially as a future Indian whiteball captain. It's pretty much already there with the T20 international side, unofficially. This is an interesting one because Rojah Sharma has not been playing T20 international since the last World Cup. They call it being rested, but he's 36 years old. Is he going to play in the 2024 edition? Probably not. So I think the only reason the BCCI haven't officially made Hardik Bandia, the T20 International Captain, is because of the whole politics around Virac Koli

and when he wanted to quit one form of whiteball captaincy, they made him quit the ODIs as well because they wanted one whiteboard captain. Now they're going to have two different whiteboard captains because Roet's going to lead the side in the ODI World Cup this year in Haidthik, probably in the 2024 T20 edition as well. So I think he's pretty much there. And it just goes to show how much he's matured over the last three or four years, really.

He's had big injury problems, of course. We weren't sure if he'd ever be able to bowl again with those back injuries that he had. So that's one heartening thing just to see him fit and firing on all cylinders with ball and with bat. And just that extra responsibility that he seems to have about his game. He comes in at number four with the bat for the Gujarat Titans. He seems to have a great relationship with all these players. It seems like a very relaxed environment.

Every single player seems to know their roles within that franchise as well. And a lot of it, look, I've said it before, a lot of it has got to do with his personal life. He's married, he's become a father, and that seems to have really. mellowed him. He was accused of being this arrogant young kid who, you know, just came out and thought he was God's gift when he was playing for the Mumbai Indians initially. And he was a very talented player. And, you know, some people said that might have got to his head and, you know, may have caused him a few problems, particularly when he went up into international cricket and, you know, the levels kind of changed there. And he maybe wasn't as good as he thought he was. But he's gone

away. He's worked at various things. And he's become this responsible character and a great leader of men and it's working for the Gujarat Titans. Look, they're right up there towards the top of the table. They've had some great results and, you know, once again, look like one of the teams to beat. Yeah, he surprised a few last year in what he did with the Gujarat Titans. Ravi? Yeah, I think he's, I think he's been brilliant so far. He does look a change man. I agree with you. He seems calmer. He seems like he's a bit more in control. I think he's looking outwards now rather than inwards, because when you're young, you focus on your own game so much. I think You do that all through your career, but you get to a certain age where you start looking

outwards and saying, right, how can I help others? How can I make my team perform better? How can I get other guys to perform better if I can help them? Because you've got to leave a mark on the game. And the only mark you, the biggest mark you can leave on the game is helping others improve their game. And if that's the way he's thinking now, I think he can make a great captain. That is the key.

you know how can you help others become better how can you get the best out of other people looks as though he is look he's got that look in his eye you know when you see him on the TV he's sort of looking outwards a little bit which is great as a captain and I think he is a future

Indian captain I think he'll be a very good one how much is the IPL a shot window for the Indian selectors in test cricket so I'm thinking of Rahani back in the squad for the World Test Championship Rahani, he's a completely new player this season. What about that, Nicky?

Absolutely, yeah. And look, it's T20 cricket and he's been selected for test cricket. He did have a good first class season for Mumbai as well. And it seemed as though he's at a stage now where he doesn't know how long he's got left at the top level. And he's playing with an extra bit of freedom, I feel. And that has translated into IPL performances as well. In terms of Indian selectors looking at the IPL, though, as a sort of shot window, we have seen that in test cricket before as well

where IPL performances can influence test selection which isn't always right I'm speaking to Abhishek Junjanuallo is part of our team as well about this and he was of the opinion that somebody like a Rahane look he's it's more about the way he feels at the moment his clarity of thought the clarity around his game the fact that he just seems in a relaxed headspace at the moment

and because he's got all that experience in test cricket it's probably the correct decision to play him in this one-off match, which is in England. He's got a good record in England and overseas generally against the pace bowlers that Australia will have in that one-off test as well. So, you know, he's of the opinion that that's fair enough. But you look back to even Virac Koli in 2008. He was quite quickly shoehorned into the test side for India shortly after that. And that was as a result of primarily IPL performances.

Ravichandran Ashwin, another one who started off. off in the IPO with the Chennai Super Kings and was quite quickly elevated as a test player rather than, you know, a white ball specialist. So we have seen form before. It can be a little bit dangerous because these players who, you know, particularly spin bowlers who talked about Ashwin, if they're bowling a certain style in T20 cricket, that's not the style you need in test cricket. So there has to be a little bit of caution when doing that. But I certainly think with Rahane's selection in that World Test Championship side, I think it's warranted not just based on the IPL, but also his general first class form.

Okay, more from Nikesh and Ravi, after this. Match of the Day, Top 10 podcast. The Match of the Day Top 10 podcast is back. With bigger debates, bigger topics and bigger laughs from this man. Yes, Micah Richards is back, along with myself and Alan Shearer for Series 8 of Match of the Day Top 10. Only on the BBC iPlayer and BBC Sounds, where if you subscribe now, you'll find the rest of our box sets to listen to

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of 3,500 kilograms, a weighting depth of 900 millimeters and a roof load up to 300 kilograms. Learn more at landrover.ca. IPL Crickets on five sports Right, Rabby, you're a T20 captain. When you go out for the toss, do you always want to bat second? The reason I ask that question is because the chasing teams in this season's IPL have won only 15 of the 37 games to date.

But the captains who have won the toss have elected to field 33 times out of 37. So what's going through your mind at the toss? You must be looking at the conditions, the pitch. So why is it that captains are batting second, despite some of the trend that's going on in this season's IPL? I think the massive reason why captains bat second or teams want to bat second is the due factor. It's normally always the due factor.

Because what you'll find in day games around the world, in the franchises that are played, they're happy to bat first in the day games. But when it comes tonight, everybody wants to chase because they're not quite sure if the dew comes down then you know the game's massively in your favor as a chasing team and and that can only explain the reason why people normally or captains and teams and coaches want to bat second in england slightly different you don't get that due factor as much um you're more open to batting first in england i know

when you're playing at hove at sussex you're actually better off batting first you win more games batting first because because the pitches hold a little bit there's a bit more grip in england so if you do get a team under pressure early uh chasing 170 for example or 180 if you get them under pressure early it's really hard to to get the game back as a as a batting side um hampshire's another place southampton i mean if you bat first there and get the team behind the uh behind the run rate and it only has to just get behind the run rate it's almost impossible to get it back. So England's a slightly different ballgame, but when you do go in Asia, the dude does play up big time. And it does work in your favour as a batting second

team, but obviously it's showing that it's not. And maybe teams have just become better at defending. Spinners have got better. The mystery of spin now, just, you know, people are not picking it, getting wickets and then piling pressure on because they know they have to. Tactics have probably got better. Yeah, teams are getting big scores. But also, there's the what happens at the toss with the teams as well? Absolutely, yeah. You can take two teams out, so you're bowling first. This is your team.

If you're batting first, this is your team. You've also got the impact substitutes as well. So you can bring in that extra bowler when you're defending as your impact substitute. And that can often, as Ravi said, be a quality spinner as well. So that has certainly helped in terms of the tactical side of being able to defend those scores. And I think that's great because you don't want to see teams winning the toss and then having an 80, 90% chance of winning the game. What's the point in watching then?

You know, it's not great for anyone, really. And we saw a lot of that, particularly when the IPL was played over in the UAE. So, predictable. You're about second 99 times out of 100. You're going to win the game. So this is great. It's a much more level playing field. And I think so far those new innovations are working really well,

both the naming of the two teams, and you choose which one dependent on the toss and the impact substitutes as well. Yeah, it does seem to be having a decent effect. You know, balancing things up in terms of who goes on to win the game. Yeah, I agree. And I think that extra, the fact that you can bring the extra bowler in when you're defending a score has a far bigger impact, I think, than bringing an extra batsman if you're chasing. Because the extra, he could have, the extra bowler can come in and bow two overs. That's 12 balls to affect the game.

The extra batsman, he might not face 12 balls to affect the game. He might only face one ball and get out. so the guy who's coming in as the extra bowler in defending he's probably impacting the game a lot more than the guy who's coming into bat for the chasing team so that could be a major factor other people who are having an impact Fafti Plessi and Virac Koli leading the scoring charts

but RCB they're still in that mid-table area it just shows you I mean it's a teen game it is and look they've always had such a powerful batting unit and they've been accused of being a little bit light with the ball. They've got one or two who are doing a great job. Mohammed Siraj in particular has been outstanding

this season as well but just as a team it just doesn't quite seem to click. Year on year you see these great individual performances but they just don't seem to be able to pull it together consistently. They do on occasion. You know, look, they've made playoffs, they've made the final before. It's not as if they've

always done really badly through the whole IPL. it's just they're not quite at that same level of the Chennai Super Kings or the Mumbai Indians of old you know that consistency through several seasons where you know everybody has a defined role they seem a little bit more haphazard in that way I don't know if you agree Ravi but just you know they've got the two or three stars in Duplice Coley Glenn Maxwell's been doing well Syraj with the ball there's a lot of gaps to fill in in between every player has to do his part in every game and it's so hard to to pinpoint with RCB, what's going on?

Veracoli in the past has probably been guilty of just not scoring quick enough. He might get you 70 runs, but it was taking too long. So, I mean, that's a little bit a part of it. In the past, they've also had weak bowling lineups as well. So that would have played a massive part. But this year round, they've got a good bowling line up. And they've also got a very good batting lineup. Why do they not dominate?

is it can only be the players the weaker players that's the only thing I can put my finger on is that they're not pulling their weight final thought on Jason Roy drafted into the IPL and his career looked almost in the balance last year but he scored runs this year

and he's had a good time of it in the IPL so far for KKR okay not the strongest side but he's he's reeled off 43, 61 and 56 in his last three innings And he's also, he's one of those players, you know, he seemed to be having a dip. But actually, he felt too young to be having a significant dip in his career. You know, he's only 32. You know, there's still international runs for him.

There's still T20 runs for him. And he's producing so far. Yeah, I don't think he's too young to have a dip in his. I think you can go through. What I mean by a dip, I mean, like a permanent dip, I mean, you know. Yeah, well, I agree. He does have time on his side as a 32. You're never done as a batsman.

I don't believe you ever done as a batsman. you've always got, you've always got the ability to score big runs and affect games. So it's good to see him back in form. He struggled in international cricket. I think he's got to earn his place back in that England side. He's definitely got to come in and score runs in England, in the blast, in the 100, to really make an impact. I think scoring runs overseas in some of the Asian countries is heavily weighted towards batsmen.

So when he comes back to England, does he go and get big runs and push for his spot in the England side, that's going to be the key for him. He's definitely got time on his side, and he's a very, very dangerous player. Yeah, indeed, absolutely agree with all those points. And look, like you say, he's 32 years old. You know, the way these guys are now, they can go into their late 30s if they keep their fitness levels up. If they're playing predominantly whiteball cricket, T20 cricket, you know, you're not quite, it's not quite the rigours of playing the long-form game, which he doesn't do anymore. So, um, Look, I think he's got a lot more left in him.

It's great to see him back in the runs. There were big, big question marks over whether or not he's just completely done, not only as an England cricketer, but even as a top-level franchise player as well. He did well to get the opportunity in this season's IPL. And once you get those opportunities in this kind of league, you take him with both hands, and that's exactly what he's done. I just contrast that with Harry Brooke,

who did make that 100 for the sunrises, but he scored 63 and 73 balls from his other innings that he's played in the IPL so far. He's had a lot of low scores and one significant score. What's going on there? Is it just the adapting to Indian pitches and a completely different style? I know he's had to open the innings, for example.

He's got a long way to go in performing consistently in franchise cricket. It will take time. It's all new to him. He's not quite sure how to approach it. He's done well, getting 100 as well. He's a fine player. He's still new to T20 cricket. I know he would have grown up on a dive,

of T20 cricket you know he's one of the young guys so he would have done a lot of that stuff in his youth he's got a big future in franchise cricket but it's just going to take a bit of time it might not come this season it might not come next season but the more he plays I think he'll get better and better and better and score big runs for for franchises in the future absolutely I think this is a great learning experience for him as well because we we've seen some of his struggles against the spin bowlers and his strike rate goes significantly down Even when he did score that 100, he was striking at well over 200 against the quicker bowlers and less than 100 against the spinners, even though he got 100 off 55 balls or whatever it was.

So it's just being out there facing these top-quality bowlers, the likes of, you know, Ashwin and Rashid Khan and all these magicians out there in helpful conditions, it's going to do wonders eventually. He's a young man like Rabi says. He's learning his trade. he does look like he's the real deal in terms of the talent that he's got it's just playing in different conditions against different types of bowling

and that's what franchise cricket is all about and that's why it's been so beneficial to so many England cricketers, Australian cricketers from various other countries going to places like India to Pakistan and wherever else and learning in different conditions so I think he'll be fine

he'll be fine he's got the talent and he's too good a player for it not to click at some point IPL cricket on five sports extra Well thanks to Nikesh and to Ravi One of the subjects we were chatting about there was the possibility of IPL teams wanting to contract players all year round

and how that could threaten the domestic season in England and potentially the international game Well that comes at the same time as players are reportedly being offered the equivalent of a year's county salary to play for two weeks in the forthcoming Major League cricket in the United States. So what, if anything, can the ECB do about this?

Kevin Howells has been speaking to their managing director of county cricket, Neil Snowball. There's a certain amount that we can do, but it's also the collective, really, because this is players, it's its agents, it's the counties, and obviously it's the ECB. So look, I mean, in terms of franchise cricket, yes, clearly there's been an explosion of franchise cricket, just a number of different leagues. I mean, if you look back to January, we had three different leagues going on at the same time in January so there has been an explosion

of that. When I say it's a positive I think it's a positive that the number of English qualified county cricketers are being attracted to those shows the quality of those players and I think it's great for them to get that experience overseas etc. In terms of things that are happening

in our season you're right that is a concern and that's something we need to get ahead of because the IPL has obviously encroached into the start of the season as we're seeing at the moment. The CPL, yes, it runs at the same time. It's had less of an impact.

And just to your point on the 100, I think there were a couple of players that left the 100 to go to the CPL, but they were replacement players who were already contracted to the CPL. So it wasn't that the CPL came in after the event and enticed them away. That was a contractual thing

because I think they were injury replacements. But you're right, Major League cricket is a major focus for us at the moment. And I think, just to be clear, that there aren't a huge number of county contracted players that have been approached. And, of course, those that have been approached, they are under contract to their county. And during that time this year, you've got championship cricket, you've got the end of the blast, and you've got championship cricket. So they're not available in simple terms. And then, obviously, we've got players who are England centrally contracted, who are on an England central contract.

and they've also been approached and they're not available because they've got England commitments. So I think this is something we've been aware of that's going to come for a while. They're very well resourced those teams and we need to look at that and work at it. But at the end of the day, that is our season.

Players are contracted. How can you turn around though to a player who's not on the wages of Ben Stokes, the England test captain, who still has the family commitment, still wants to look after them and you're saying, no, you're not going off there for two weeks, but it's okay for Ben to go to the Indian Premier League.

Well, I didn't say that we would say they can't go. I mean, if you've got a player who's contracted to their county, and I think this is really important, is that a few people have sort of speculated about whether cricketers will become like tennis players or golfers, where they are literally freelance. They go around and they have their own teams around them. We're not at that point yet.

And also... But what are you going to do to stop us? Can you do anything to stop that from happening as the ECHA? Well, I think what we can do is make sure that the competitions that they're playing in here in our season are attractive enough to make them want to play in them, whether that's for their county or in the 100. And that means paying them enough really, doesn't it?

Which means that paying them enough. So you can compete with these leagues? Well, I think we can compete in a number of different ways. The other thing that I was going to come on to, though, what, and you'll appreciate this, what's really important is players need a base. Yes, if you look at, if you look at what's going on at the moment. Some of the DOCs, sorry, the director of cricket are getting a bit concerned about players who've gone off through the winter, coming back a little bit broken or a little bit tired. Broken, they can't play. They'll, I mean, the surgery they should have had during the winter, but they weren't because they were playing in those games.

Exactly. So from that point, but what they do do is they come back, they get patched up and they get put back on the field again. Now, I think certainly the PCA, I know, we talk about this a lot. They feel it's important that those player, their members and the players have got a base where they can come back and play and practice and have their physiologic, et cetera, et cetera. Now, I think there might come a time where a handful of players might go freelance and I don't think we can necessarily stop that

if that's what they want to do. But I don't think that will be huge numbers. I think a lot of people will still want their base be able to come back to their county and do their practice, do their rehab, etc. But it is a changing world. And going back to your earlier point, this is what we were looking at

also through the men's high performance review is how do we make sure that the opportunities back home are as attractive as abroad by making sure we've got high-quality competitions that we're not overloading them in terms of workload and that they want to play here as well as overseas, which is what we've got at the moment. Well, that's Neil Snowball, the ECB's Managing Director of County Cricket with Kevin Howells. Check out BBC Sounds for plenty more podcasts, including a new series From The Ashes, where Stefan Schemelt discovers untold stories from England-Australia clashes. This week, Glenn McGrath on the unexpected assistance he received

to his near-miracle recovery ahead of the Old Trafford test in 2005. We were up here in Manchester. And I was just gingerly walking, but I was starting to walk a lot better. And then we went down to Manchester United's game. And we did a bit of a training session down there, met a few of the men, new boys. and that was where I first started to be able to jog on it and run on it and then the following day in the test match I was running and I could bowl and away we went

Manchester United helped you get fit for the third test well I was I don't know if they actually helped but it was it was great sort of you know it's at Alex Ferguson and everyone was there so it was just a great experience to be down there and just to experience how we did a bit of a session there and yeah it was good Our IPL coverage continues on Five Sports Extra and BBC Sounds. And don't forget, you can also follow every ball of every county match via the BBC Sport website and app. Check out BBC Sounds for more podcasts, including a new episode of the award-winning no balls

with Kate Cross and Alex Hartley, Stumped and Tail Enders with Greg James, Felix White and Jimmy Anderson. Tailenders, much more than just a cricket podcast. Loosely cricket-based, meaning we've very very much. very rarely talk about world cricket. Yes. But when we need to, we can do. Boy, can we deliver. As England's greatest ever bowler,

you don't need to do this podcast, but why do you? Welcome to Tellendez, a Lucy Cricket Base. Thank you, Mr. Lendez, Tulsa, Lucy Cricket Base. With podcast from me, Chief Force, him Felix White, him Jimmy Anderson, matching tenderly, Tail Enders.

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