Test Match Special - It's Ashes week in Perth

Episode Date: November 17, 2025

Eleanor Oldroyd chats to Phil Tufnell and Alex Hartley, plus we have a look around the Perth Stadium as the countdown to the first Test continues.

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. Bring more gear, carry more passengers, face greater challenges. Welcome to the world of Defender, with seating up to eight, ample cargo space and legendary off-road capability. It's built to make the most of every adventure. Learn more at landrover.ca. Welcome to the Test Match special podcast. We've arrived in Perth and the men's ashes is nearly upon us. After all of the planning, speculation and anticipation, it's nearly time for it all to begin. We'll be out and about at the Optus Stadium, hear from a Perth insider about what it means for the test to be starting in Western Australia, and chat to a very excited Phil Tufnell and Alex Hartley.

Well, what an absolute joy it is to be in Perth. Ahead of the Ashes, four days to go. A couple of us got in last night, and it just feels like the team is gradually assembling. TMS, assemble. And it's a nice lunchtime. We thought we'd... Sorry, I'm going to do this again.

Well, it's lunchtime, so we thought we'd pop around the corner to our local. And who should we bump into? But Phil Tufnal and Alex Hartley. How are you? How lovely you? to see you. Very well, thank you Elliot. It's lovely to be here in the sunshine. Do you know what? We talk

about jet lag. I don't know what time you woke up when we got in last night. I slept till 11am. Absolutely fine. Jet lag is just a mindset Ellie. Ten hours sleep for me. We've absolutely smashed it so far. Tough as you came in on the red eye this morning. How are you feeling? I'm feeling absolutely fine. Yes, just landed

a couple of hours ago so I thought I'd get myself out and about. Beautiful blue skies. Sand between the toes with a little bit of cricket thrown in. It couldn't be better. Loads of Barmy Army and English supporters on the plane over, so everyone's very excited and just can't wait to get stuck in and get going. How many conversations did you have at various points of the journey

about your predictions for the Ashes Tuffers? Well, absolutely. No, there was lots of very, very keen supporters on the plane over as well. So, yeah, we're all discussing about Australia's sort of injury woes, Is that going to play? Everyone's right on it. You know what I mean? They know all the facts

and all the details about it. So, yeah, it whiled away the time, actually. Yeah, I had a very nice conversation with a lady in the ladies' loo at Dubai Airport, Alex, as we were in transit about, you know, predictions for the ashes and how many games we were doing. But there is a buzz about this. It's a buzz that we haven't had for eight years as well

because the fans can be here. Absolutely. I think, you know, when tours are organised, you know, where we're going to be, what dates, games are going to be. You know, you hear thousands of fans are travelling over with the Barmy Army. We saw so many people with England shirts on. They're already in their playing kit.

The fans ready for the game that starts in five days' time. So look, there is a buzz. It's the best chance England have had for such a long time. Everybody seems to have got behind them. And I'm absolutely loving the media. England versus Australia. You know, we've seen so many podcasts, so many newspaper articles. And it's almost like, okay, we're counting down the days for it actually to start now.

Yeah, well, today's a bit of the phony war, toughers is Channel 10, a TV news channel who've sent a camera crew to a random golf course and spotted Ben Stokes and Joe Root having a round of golf. I mean, you know, it's a kind of when there's nothing to write about, they have to write about something, don't they? And that's tapping into that criticism really, isn't it? It's that idea that this England team, they don't care they spend their whole time on the golf course. Well, you can't practice every day, you know, for every minute of the day.

So listen, they're going to be prepared. They're going to know their plans and what they're going to be looking to do and everything. So, listen, I've been on many tours with England, and sometimes you've just got to sort of ignore what's coming up a little bit. They know what's going to be happening, you know what I mean? It's huge. Listen, there was a mild sort of confidence on the plane from the England fans. Now, I've said that before on a plane to Australia, but no, listen,

they know what they're doing. They'll be focused. They'll be ready. So you go out there. I'm not worried about the guys going out and having a game of golf. We're still got three or four days, you know, till the first test starts. So listen, go out there, relax the mind, enjoy yourself. But there will be switched on come that first test match.

Yeah, and that's the way England do it, don't they? You know, if they want to relax and, you know, they've played a practice match as well. So there's only the only one practice match, obviously. But still, time to just allow themselves to enjoy the weather, get out, feel what it's like to be in Perth. It really, really makes me laugh that England have got this. this reputation of playing golf and not training and, you know, not doing the hard work. Every single sports team in the world goes out and plays golf. Cricket in particular, everybody gets out on the golf course.

It's a really good chance to switch off, get away from the game. You can't live in each other's pockets. This is a very, very long tour. And if you're hanging out with the same people all the time, sitting in cafes and sitting in the hotel and just playing call of duty like they did during COVID, you know, they'll go out of their minds. So, yeah, I've got absolutely no problem with them playing. of because we know we've seen them train they do train hard and they listen it's not new for this

stokes and mccullum regime is it you know i mean this is what they do you know what i mean and they sort live and die by it as well i think the last couple of tours they've always got off to a good start by winning that first test match so i'm not bothered about that really listen this is what they do this this this this is the stokes and mccullum regime and and and that's what they're going to do about it so whatever these people say and you know all the press and all the papers and everything and knocking it and what having, they won't really mind about that. You say what you want, but this is how we prepare, and they will be judged on it. And I think one of the differences between this England and Australia team going into this test match

is that England pretty much know what their team is. They've actually had a much more settled build-up to this stage with a little bit of a worry about Mark Wood's hamstring, but that seems to have gone away. But Australia are not in that position. And England have been together as a squad. They do more or less know their team. Australia don't, haven't had the team confirmed yet. and today was actually the first time

they were all together as a squad It's a grueling tour An Australian tour Hot weather as you say We're sitting here in our cafe Under a shade It's a glorious day It's grueling

The pitches are hard It's going to be tough hard cricket It's not going to take one or two guys To win an Ashes series It's going to take the whole squad And the whole team So England will be They would have been concerned

About Mark Wood's hamstring obviously But it's not going to be The end of the world If they think it's not quite right well, just slot one of the other guys in. It's a simple, and we'll see you on the second test match. It's a team effort to win Ash's, you know, down under. It's as simple as that.

And I think that will go for the Australian. So everyone's sort of going, oh, Aiserwood's out, and so-and-so's out, you know, who's going to be coming in and everything. Five test matches, long, long way to go. It does sort of feel like the survival of the fittest, though, doesn't it? Five test matches. It hasn't started. We've got injuries left, right and centre. The question we were all having, or the discussion we were all having last night,

was who starts the first test and who plays the last test. And we all had different opinions on who was going to play and who was going to play all five. And look, these are the conversations we're going to be having for weeks and weeks. But when you're looking at the build-up to this ashes, it does feel like it's going to be survival of the fittest. Right, well, and that's going to be the case for the TMS team as well, I think. So I'm going to let you two finish your lunch,

maybe get a little bit of an afternoon nap in Tuftas, if you can. And Alex and I, we're up and firing already. We've had less than 24 hours in Perth, and we're hard at work. I'm going to pop along to the ground. The TMS podcast on BBC Sounds. Well, here we are for the first time of this Ashes outside the Optus Stadium. It's a beautiful sunny day. The sun is beating down from a bright blue sky

and the bronze cladding around the spaceship. I think you could call it of the Optus Stadium. The first time it will have hosted an Ashes test match here. And everyone is getting very excited. looking forward to going inside, seeing what it feels like inside the bowl. Henry Moran, our cricket reporter, producer, commentator is alongside me. I mean, Henry, it's the first time I've been to Perth, first time I've been inside this stadium.

How excited are you on a scale of 1 to 10? Oh, well, around about an 11 or 12, I'll say. It couldn't be more different from the wacker across the river, could it, with those huge, great concrete floodlights. And it's a spectacular venue this. And it is, it's like a spaceship has landed. somewhere near the river and you know it's a spectacular venue 60,000 seats it was voted the most beautiful sports ground in the world in 2019 and you know it is going to be a very different experience

to what we've seen in previous Perth test matches we're trying to get a little bit of a sense of what the pitch is going to be like and a bit of local knowledge as well that sort of thing but yeah when fans have this glorious walk from the centre of Perth to this stadium they're going to see it from a long distance away, you see the reflections coming from the bronze outer that surrounds it. It is like a great big sort of sporting donut that's been dumped on the edge of the river. You can make comparisons, and this is the only time I'm going to make the comparison with Perth and Cardiff. But if you're an England fan coming to this game, imagine staying in the centre of the city and then walking along the river through a public park. So this is on the Burswood Peninsula, the Swan River runs right through it.

There's lots of picnic areas, places to just enjoy yourself, to relax with the family, public artworks around the park as well. So slightly different weather from Cardiff, but actually the fan experience for those England fans who haven't managed to come to An Ashes for the last eight years, I think it's going to be something really to relish. I think it is. It's something that they do incredibly well in Australia, is that experience of not just the venue itself, but all of the surrounding area, because they've got the space in many ways. And it is that sense as you walk from the distance, you see the ground rising up in front of you, you get that fan park experience,

the noise builds, the stalls that you see outside the ground, the barbecues, the bars, all of these things that come Friday morning are going to be heaving. And they're going to have that sense from all of those England fans and all of those Australian fans,

we know the first couple of days are sold out, it's going to feel like the biggest occasion in the world. And yeah, I can see the similarities with Cardiff. Perhaps it's, as you say, not quite the same as a Six Nations weekend in February. But what it will be is that real feeling of a sporting occasion that is going to be almost like a pilgrimage for those fans making their way from the centre of town because it is going to be a sweeping mass of cricket fans ready for what will be the biggest day of the cricketing calendar this year.

And, you know, Ashes cricket does something different. And, you know, we can make the arguments about World Cups and we can make the arguments about different series, border Gavisca, England, India, all of these things. But let's make no mistake about it. We've been thinking about and building up to these series and walking towards this venue metaphorically for so, so long. Now we get to do the walk ourselves in reality

in the sunshine of Perth. And goodness me, it's thrilling. Well, let's go inside because there's a member of the Australian team waiting to talk to us all. And we're also going to get a bit of insight into what it means to the people of Perth to have the privilege of starting the ashes. The Dakar Rally is the ultimate off-road challenge. Perfect for the ultimate defender. The high-performance defender, Octa, 626 horsepower twin turbo V8 engine and intelligent 6D dynamics air suspension. Learn more at landrover.ca.

So we are match day, T-minus 4, and the drilling is going on around the Optus Stadium, getting everything ready for the start of the ashes, the first time that the ashes has started in Perth for a very, very long time. And I'm sitting with Alex Malcolm from ESPN Crick Info. Perth, born and bred, do you feel proud? I mean, even though you live in Melbourne now, do you still feel proud that this is. where it's all going to start? I don't know about proud. Yeah, it's great for, it is great for the city, it's great for the state. They've been starved of Ashes cricket,

obviously because of the COVID situation four years ago, but there's a lot of excitement. I know a lot of my friends and even family members are coming to the game this week. So there's a lot of excitement and anticipation for what's ahead, and it's obviously going to be a cracking test match, cracking series, so many storylines, so many things to be excited about.

So, yeah, it's plenty to look forward to. How painful was it for years? ago to miss out on a test match here. And it was because Western Australia had really strict COVID rules. Yeah, I mean, I was living in Melbourne at the time. So it was quite difficult for us to not see family members for a good two years there. Yeah, I think just the nature of what was going on globally and what was happening in Australia and what was happening particularly in this state. I don't know if it was as painful maybe as it might have looked from the outside. I think because Western Australia was kept reasonably well open, even though

they were closed, fenced off from the rest of the world. They lived reasonably well compared to the rest of Australia at that time and obviously the UK as well. So, yeah, it would have been disappointing to them not having an Ashes test then, but they've had plenty of good crickets since. Indy came here last year. So, yeah, it's great to have the first Ashes test here and to start the summer here is pretty unique and pretty special.

And also, I wonder if it actually takes away some of the fear factor of, well, 40 years getting on for since England, won the opening test match of an Ashes series. Do you think Australia have lost any kind of edge that it's here rather than there? Funny you should say that. The team themselves are very happy that they're playing here. They're undefeated at this venue.

Oh, no, sorry, they lost last year, I should say. That was the first time they'd lost at this venue. Previously, they'd had great success here. I mean, the gabbatois has fallen too in recent times. They obviously lost to India there in January of 2021 and then lost to the West Indies in January of 2024. So the fear factor of both of the stadiums is probably a little less for the visiting teams now.

I think teams have got used to the pace and bounce. I mean, this surface actually is the best batting track in Australia. It has been for the last four years, so that will suit England's batters if they can get in. The difficult part is getting started on this surface. There's a bit of extra steep bounce that you have to get used to here, which is very different to playing elsewhere and very different to playing in England.

And that's something that once you adjust to and you make the right decisions as a batter, you can really get in and fill your boots. So the England guys, I think, will be excited. about that and then from a bowling perspective they've loved bowling on this pitch particularly mark wood and joff ratch if they both get together even atkinson cast pots at tongue whoever it would be but again they've got to get their lengths right on this surface but yeah they've got a great opportunity and i don't think they should fear this place at all because the

wacker did have that reputation didn't it for that pace and bounce so when the curator here laid the wicket for the first time and was there a sense of trying to replicate that wacker experience here very much so they got exactly the same clay from um Harvey Bay down south, and it has the same characteristics as the old whacker. The current whacker has actually slowed down quite a bit as a surface. Obviously, those pitches are getting tired. They've been there a long time. They've played a little bit differently in shield cricket with a lot more grass,

being a little bit softer, actually, not like the old concrete, hard wacker surfaces that England saw in the 80s and 90s and even early 2000s. But this has similar characteristics. There'll be a bit more grass on it than what you might have. seen in previous times coming to Perth, but there will be steep bounce. There'll be lots of pace. Jamie Smith will be taking the ball above his head a long way back from the stumps. The guys will have to play off the back foot and make good decisions off the back foot. One of the big things here for batterers is not playing vertically off the bat foot early.

It is a place where you can nick a lot, and it's a place where batter's visiting for the first time I've had trouble. India had trouble in the first things last year, but they made some better decisions than the second. Jaiswell got a huge hundred. Virot goal. He got a hundred second hundred here so if you make the right decisions here guys can cash in but it just takes a little bit of time to adjust to it you mentioned that india test as you say was it 17 wickets fell on the first day i mean we could have a short test match here if it's replicated yeah it was it was bizarre yeah i mean because of the heat here he does and he's putting some water into the surface right now they do like to keep a little bit of moisture in it certainly early so it doesn't break up sooner

rather than later because when it gets dry the big cracks open up and that's when it can get uneven in terms of bounce and sideways so he will usually have a bit more moisture in at the curator and so it can do a lot on that first day. It did a lot more than probably they anticipated I think Bummer was just special on the first night

it had settled down a little bit but he was just incredible and Australia weren't able to handle that having done all the hard work where Hayserwood and Stark had bowed beautifully in the morning so it'll be interesting but then days two and three are always the best days for batting here good chance if whichever team is batting after lunch day two

will have a great opportunity to build a big score and then when the cracks open up it'll get harder day three and four so traditionally here on no side has one batting second so every team that's played at this every game that's been played at this venue has been won by the team batting first

so the toss could be important we know we're going to have lots of English fans here there were lots on the plane coming out yesterday what about the locals are they going to turn out in force for this? I think they will I mean, there will be a huge ex-pack community here as well. So those that have made a life here from the UK will also find their voice and find their way here.

It'll be a huge crowd. It's expected to be a sell-out first two days and then very strong crowds in day three and day four if the game obviously gets that far. Yeah, so it should be an awesome atmosphere. I think there'll be so much energy. I know a lot of the locals are very excited and will be coming. So, yeah, it should be a fascinating first couple of days

with lots of energy and buzz, and we'll see if the cricket matches that. I'm sure it will. It should be electric. So first Test match in the Ashes here for eight years. Cam Green, we're expecting to play, expecting him to have a big part. He's somebody you know.

You played cricket with him growing up. So is he going to be the man to look out for here, do you think? Yeah, he'd be very excited. He played well in the recent shield game over the road at the Wacker. He got 94, I think it was, against Queensland. Yeah, he hasn't played a lot of test cricket. I think he might have only played one or two tests at this venue. He's either been injured or, you know, obviously his debut series

and the series after was the Ashes series four years ago and they didn't play in Perth in either of those ones because of COVID. So he hasn't played a lot of test cricket at this venue. I think he's only played a handful of even short-form internationals here. So, no, he'll be very excited and, yeah, he's, I think coming back after back surgery, it's been a long road for him. They've been very deliberate in their build with his bowling, but he's got confidence in his body from what I can gather.

I haven't spoken to him for a while, but yeah, he should take a lot of confidence from what he did in the West Indies. I know there's been a lot of talk about him not being the right option at number three, but he was one of Australia's best batters in that series. A lot of people probably don't realize that. It just didn't look at it on the scores because there was such low scores on such difficult surfaces.

But, yeah, he should bring a lot of confidence. He knows the place. He'll have a lot of friends and family, a lot of support here. so he is a fulcrum in that lineup, sort of shapes that Australia's 11 if he's fully fit on both sides, a little bit like Ben Stokes. He's obviously not as experienced or as good as Stokes, but yeah, he's very important for Australia, and I'm sure he'll be well prepared and keen to do well.

Alex Markham from ESPN Crick Info. Thank you very much indeed for your time, and thank you for welcoming us to your hometown. My pleasure. The TMS podcast on BBC Sounds. Well, we're standing now in the shadow of, of the sight screen looking up around the bowl of the Optus Stadium, blue skies above and a shade around the top as well. You think it's going to get hot. The temperature's going to get

be well up into the 30s over the next few days, looking down at the grass. It's that familiar, slightly lighter coloured Australian grass that you get with the sand underneath as well. And Henry, what's your impression? It's my first time here at the stadium. What's your impression just standing down here? Well, it's more Melbourne cricket ground than it is Wantage Road. I think it's fair to say. It's a huge bowl, isn't it? It's an extraordinary venue. And you look at the three tiers,

the grey seats that are going to be filled by these eager spectators come Friday. And I think the first thing to notice is that, you know, it is a sports arena. The Wacker is a cricket ground. And this is a stadium that is used for all sorts of different things. It's used as an Australian rules for football ground. and it's certainly somewhere that you know is a multi-sport facility as opposed to a bespoke boutique ground like the Wacker is and yeah it's a spectacular venue it really is and it's one of those grounds that you look at and still shiny still new what less than 10 years old and you think it is it is special but what I don't know is if it's going to have that intimidation of the furnace you see the signs outside the Wacker that say welcome to the furnace those great big floodlights. This is sleeker. This is

neatie. You've got the huge, great sort of tunnels underneath it as well where deliveries of vast staging equipment for the big concerts come about when Queen or whoever come and play. And yet it is a different vibe, of course it is. But what it certainly

unquestionably will be is an intimidating atmosphere, the steepling stands, the noise that's going to echo around. Come that first ball on Friday, this is going to be a special place to be. So when it comes to that first ball of the series, whoever bowls it. It was dependent on who wins the toss.

We're about to see Scott Boland do his first press conference. But this is going to be a very different Australian attack, whatever happens. So no Hazelwood, no cummins. The pressure is going to be on them, isn't it, really? Because they've got a lot to prove. Well, they do. But I think you only have to go back four years ago when the boxing day test at Melbourne and everyone said,

well, here comes Scott Boland. He's just a sort of, you know, a bit of a shableness. Field Shield Pro that's been around the traps and, you know, what sort of threat is he compared to the great three of Stark Hazelwood and Cummins? And look what he did in that test match. And it was extraordinary. As we've heard, there's a lot of talk about Brendan Doggett, what he could do as well. I think, yeah, whoever bowls that first ball is going to be nervous. It's going to be nervous for whoever is facing that first ball.

And for some reason, the first ball of an Ashes series is different to any other moment in sport. It is, regardless of you're at Trembridge, the Gaba, here at the Optus Stadium, it is a special moment where it feels as though every single pair of eyes in the sporting world beams down upon that sort of dual sort of battle, if you like, that moment of battling both the cricket ball and the nerves. And we saw what happened to Rory Burns four years ago at the Gaba, and it's going to be fascinating to see what happens with whoever has the ball in hand. It is the sort of moment that you build up to over years and years and years, almost like the starting gun for the 100 metres final at the Olympics. There is something about that moment. And goodness me, when we stand here, Ellie, ground level, looking out straight from the sight screen at that surface.

Inocuous looking 22 yards, it's just slightly paler than the ground around it. And you think it is going to be the centre of that sporting universe. And goodness me, that roar when that first ball is bold, it's going to be something else. Yeah, is it going to be Rory Burns bowled round his legs by Mitchell Stark or is it going to be there? Well, it's not exactly, that kind of moment or is it Zach Crawley hitting his first ball for four of the ashes in 2023? Well, this is it, isn't it? That's the exciting thing. And that's the thrill of it all, is that we are so uncertain as to how this is all going to play out.

And it is what we want from sport. This is exactly why, you know, this series is delighting and thrilling even before a bowl has been bold, because we just have no idea how it's going to go. One thing that I think is worth bearing in mind in all of this is that, yeah, Australia, they're a side that are without two of their senior bowlers, but they have extraordinary consistency in terms of selection and what they've done over the last few years. Eight of the 11 that played at Hobart are still very much part of the squad.

Compare that to England, who had an opening partnership of Rory Burns and Hassee Permead in that series. Ollie Robinson, infamously bold first ball to conclude this series. I think Agers' commentary, that just about sums it up, will live long in the memory. And, you know, it's going to be absolutely compelling from the first ball. And now we're here, we're on the outfield, there is that buzz, there is that sense of occasion already. And everywhere you go in Perth, be it the security guard at the airport, checking your visa and everything else, or the person making sure that you get into the stadium and all of the, every single element of, it feels like a city that is just tightening like a coiled spring ready for something quite

spectacular to occur on Friday and yeah goodness me you're counting down the minute well the England and Australian press packs are just gathered away to our right to hear what Scott Boland's got to say and here he is since the game the MTV when I debuted and I've been sort of life changing since then I probably thought I still thought I had some good years to to go, but I didn't think it was going to be as good as being on all these tours for Australia. So I'm really grateful that that's happened and, you know, probably been travelling a lot more than what I expected, but I wouldn't change it for the world. Like, any time I'm in, the Australian squad all this team and, yeah, I definitely don't take it

for granted, so, yeah, obviously you don't want to be missing two great players like Josh and Pat, but I think our bowling stocks have been really strong for quite a while, but no one's been able to sort of break in with the resilience of Starkey and Pat and Josh and myself. So I think it's going to be an exciting time because a new guy or two will get a look in, but they're not inexperienced guys. Like Brendan's coming in, he's 31 years old, he's played a lot of first-class cricket now. He knows his game, and he's played Shill Creek for the best part of eight years. so he knows what he's going to need to do for him to express his skills out on the big stage.

Well, whoever bowls that first ball here at the Optus Stadium will have all eyes on them and we haven't got long to wait. At 20 past 2 on Friday morning UK time, we'll see the opening salvo of this special series and you'll hear it all on Test Match Special across Five Sports Extra and BBC Sounds. Don't forget, Five Live Sport has a cricket show on Monday evening from 7 p.m. with Steve Crosman, joined by Mark Ramprakash, Jack Leach and Ryan Campbell. BBC Sport is the place to follow the men's ashes. The countdown is very much on.

TMS at the Ashes. Five live sports. The Rugby Union Autumn International. Unbelievable scenes are shell-shocked Wickenham. Rugby Union's elite clash in a bid to close out the year in style. Oh, what a trial. Keep up to date with all the insight and analysis with the Rugby Union weekly podcast. The Rugby Union Autumn Internationals. It doesn't stop.

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