Test Match Special - Joe Root on his 100th Test

Episode Date: February 3, 2021

As Joe Root prepares to play in his 100th Test match, Jonathan Agnew speaks to the England captain to look back on his career, his Test debut, and to ask what the future holds. Sir Alastair Cook says he has no doubt that Root will surpass his record total of Test runs, whilst Michael Vaughan thinks that he will become England’s greatest ever batsman. Plus we hear from his parents, Matt and Helen, on what a cricket-obsessed Joe was like growing up.

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Hello, I'm Jonathan Agnew, and welcome to a very special test match special podcast, marking Joe Root's 100th test match. I'll be speaking to Joe himself from his quarantine hotel in Chennai, as well as his first England captain, Sir Alistair Cook, his mentor, Michael Vaughn, and his parents, Matt and Helen, on bringing up not just one, but two professional cricketers. We'll hear about his upbringing, his sibling rivalry with brother Billy, as well as his captaincy, and just how much longer he can go on. for but first up we'll start with a man himself follow england's tour of india via the tms podcast with a new episode at the end of each day's play i can't believe you've played a hundred tests amazing i know it's um it seems to have come around quite quickly i don't know when the

time's got it feels like yesterday walking out at nagpour so hopefully it's it's it's not near the end of the journey over there's plenty more games to come and plenty more fantastic memories to make um but yeah very excited for this week Yeah. Can you remember how you felt when he walked out? It was actually it was an important game that, wasn't it? And you was kind of suddenly pulled in, a bit of a change of the balance, where England needing not to lose that to win a series there for so long? Yeah, I mean, once I walked out,

I sort of completely forgot the situation of the game and the magnitude of it. I was just so overwhelmed and happy and just enjoying that moment. They get the opportunity to play for England, to play test cricket. walking out Kevin Peters and stood at the other end, I just couldn't stop smiling. I'd take a little bit of time just to refocus and just sort of think, well, stop thinking about the fact that Satchington Dolkwood stood at Middorf and Kevin Peters and who had grown up watching stood at the other end and just really focus on the job in hand. And thankfully, managed to stay out of that for a bit of time and help us get across the line.

Yeah. You looked very young too. I mean, when you look back, didn't he? I mean, there were angelic smile and very slight. Yeah, hopefully that continues. Hopefully I can stay looking young when I get to your age, I guess. You've lost the smile. Yeah, I've lost, it's weathered me having to speak to you all these years.

Hopefully, I can still stay on the younger side of things. But, yeah, a lot of times past since then, there's been a lot of things happen. And, as I say, hopefully, this is just part of the journey. And then there's plenty more to come after this. Yeah. How much of you changed as a person do you think? I mean, I'm not talking about physically yet, but, you know, when you settle into the side, you know, you have got a good sense of humor. You like a laugh.

And you were there with Bob Willis and personations. But now you're captain. I mean, I've seen a change when I talk to you and I have to interview over things. You know, it seemed as if you, you know, you have had to. to, well, change a bit yourself, at least publicly. Yeah, I still want to have fun. I still want to enjoy my cricket. Something that, you know, that's one thing when things aren't going well,

is just to try and remember what it was like that first time I walked out. Remember what it was like being 10-year-olds playing in the nets at Abidale's Sports Club or, you know, on the driveway and garden with my brother, the enjoyment that I get from the game is still there. And I just, more than anything, want to keep embracing that as much as possible. Of course, throughout your career, you grow up, you've enjoyed. outside of the game and, you know, your life moves on outside and away from cricket, but within the game as well, I think you mature as a player.

And that comes through experiences, you know, experiencing different moments, dealing with disappointment, dealing with, you know, elation. And thankfully, I've had some wonderful teammates that have been there along the journey with me and been able to share those great moments and as well to lean on. in the difficult times as well. So ultimately that's probably one of the most enjoyable things about the game is sharing it all with the guys around you. Yeah.

And when someone like Dan Lawrence makes his debut in Sri Lanka, do you hark back to that first walking out at Nagpur, which clearly was a bit of a dream for you? I mean, do you sit down and talk to the newcomers now and lean on your experience with that first match? Well, you try and offer a little bit of advice, but you also are very aware that there's so many people not necessarily giving them advice but wishing them well

and as an individual you're just trying to prepare yourself so I think more than anything you watch with interest to see how they handle it and it was great to see Dan go about it exactly how he did I thought he held himself magnificently so you know it does take you back yourself as a player when you see someone receive that first cap and that smile on their face

and all of the hard work that's gone into that that moment and you know it's a really nice nice thing to be a part of seeing someone get that opportunity and hopefully they make the most of it. Yeah. How are your family going to be feeling this week do you think? I mean they

they love their cricket, they love following you around they can't be there obviously this time which is a shame. Yeah I'm sure they'll be extremely proud you know they'll be excited to watch the cricket and a lot of what's happened and me getting to this stage down to them, the hours that they put into taking me to training sessions, not just my parents,

my grandparents as well. And my brother, too, the amount of test matches we played in the back garden on the driveway, all of it together, it's nice to be able to enjoy that, enjoy moments like this with them. Yeah. Well, you're always quite competitive as brothers, and I wonder how he looks at your, you know, he's obviously had a successful career himself, but he's not captain of England. How did that play out as brothers? We always had a strong rivalry. Not in a bad way. I think that competitive element between the two of us is probably what helped us become better players. I think it's a big part of the sport. You've got to have a competitive edge. You've got to want to get in a contest. And from being a really small kid, both of us have always had that.

Yeah, he's made a fine career for himself. It must be quite difficult being compared to an England captain or someone playing for England. But I think he deals with it extremely well. And I think his best years are still to come. How did it feel a bit cruel, maybe, when you actually hit him for six at that time at Trent Bridge? When any time, he's actually played against each other. Yeah, well, he'd given me some verbal. So I was quite pleased that he had to wait for the right ball.

I was terrified of getting out to him. But thankfully, he bought me an absolute rank long hop and the film was up. So I had to drive him home that evening as well. So he was pretty quiet in the car. But, you know, it's a really nice thing to be able to play against each other. It was quite a strange occasion. And actually, the first fixture of the summer is Yorkshire vipa Morgan. So hopefully that would be another opportunity to do the same.

About your parents, was it quite difficult for them to have two, it's a very promising young lads to take around to games to coach to I know getting ready for weekends and so on I mean to have one might be quite hard but I wonder how they split their times between you yeah I mean for a large proportion of our childhood we went and watched dad play on a Saturday and Sunday

and we'd be in the nets we'd be at his training sessions playing on the side so for a large proportion it was it was spent watching him play and watching at Sheffield Collegiate Side all around the Yorkshire leagues. And then when it started to come to games, Bill was a fantastic player as a youngster

and he played a lot of age up cricket. You know, as a youngster, he'd come in and play in my age group. So a lot of the time we'd be playing in the same teams. And that's, you know, they're great memories as well, looking back playing with family members and things. But it must have been very challenging, trying to split time and organise. getting to different games and such, that's where, you know, we're very grateful to have people

so invested in giving us opportunity, not just in cricket, but in other sports as well. You know, I know I was extremely lucky to have a family that were more than willing to provide those opportunities and give me every chance of success, but also to, because they knew how much I love playing sport. Yeah, and it is difficult getting that line right, isn't it? Especially as, you know, sort of pushy parents and all that, you know, too much coach. too much shouting, too much expectation, trying to, you know, in the father's line, maybe sort of trying to live his career in yours, you know, and seeing, you know, when did your dad stop sort of coaching, if you like, and saying, okay, I've got to let this, this, this, this boy go now

and there are others who will take him on. Oh, he still, he still tries now every day, but he sees, he stops himself, he does stop himself, but no, he was, he was obviously a big influence in my career. I think once I started working with Kevin Sharp at Yorkshire from being about 12, 13 years old, who sort of understood that, you know, he was going to have a big influence on my career and, you know, he just wanted me to do well.

He wanted to build to do well. And like I say, he's created opportunities for us to do that, spent time throwing countless balls at us in the nets. And I couldn't ask for any more from them. They've been amazing. Just one about Kevin Sharp, I've always been intrigued about it. I mean, I've played against Kevin a lot.

and he was mad. I mean, beautifully eccentric and a very good friend of mine. But it's interesting, he was clearly a very good coach. I wonder what it was about Kevin that you saw that as an opposing bowler, I wouldn't necessarily have seen in Kevin the player.

I think a lot of players turn out to be very different as coaches. I'd still say Kevin is quite eccentric. And I think always will be. but I think the way he spoke about batting to me even being a really young kid, it resonated with me really early on and we had a really good relationship from the start. He obviously saw something in me

and wanted to help him work with me and he had a very good way of understanding my game and me as a person as well. There are a number of occasions where things wouldn't be going well for me and he would just keep smiling at me and just saying it'll turn, it'll turn. The good Lord's just testing you, it'll turn.

That was his little phrase that he used all the time. And I was fortunate to get opportunities. I think you do need that little bit of luck and that little bit of backing if you're going to be successful. And thankfully, Kevin saw that in me. And 100 tests on and all these runs and you're on the leading run scores of all time. Do you still need to go back? Are there still times where you really have to look hard at your game

even now and try and change things, put things right? cut out habits that might have crept in, whatever it might be? All the time. I think as soon as you start standing still as a batter, the rest of the world will or the opposition will catch up. There's so much information now, so many trends and different things that teams can look at. And the more you play, the more evidence there is. So I think it's really important that you evolve with the game. The game's always changing, whether that's the impact of the other formats.

But test cricket will always challenge you in different ways. You know, there'll be new guys come on the scene that you've never seen before, even if you're an experienced player. There'll be also guys who have got you out a number of different times and overcoming that mental hurdle and that barrier that, you know, wasn't necessarily there in the past. So there's always a different challenge. There's always something there that will test you,

along with, you know, even media scrutiny at times, being able to manage that, you know, whether it's ex-players that you really respect going through your game and picking it to pieces. It's all part and parcel of the journey and being a test player and it's something that you have to understand, really.

It's not something that you can experience in county cricket. So using the people around you, having a real clear understanding of what's going on, what's actually happening and really trusting that is really important. And how are you with the other formats?

Are you still chasing T20 a bit? We'll talk about the other 300 tests, but that other part of the game is still out there. And are you still eager to be very much a central part of that? Absolutely, I'm, yeah. I'd love to be a part of that World Cup squad. I love playing all three formats. Everything is a different challenge.

I find them all great fun in different ways. And I haven't had opportunities to play a huge amount of 2020 cricket in the last few years. but also I'm very aware of the guys that have got those spots at the minute they're playing some amazing cricket and there's some brilliant players in there that fully deserves a shirt and all I can do is if I get an opportunity is trying to score as many runs as I can when it comes to those 20-20 games and for me the most important thing is that England go to that World Cup

with the strongest squad and we give ourselves the best chance of winning out there and hopefully now I can be a part of that squad but if not I'll be backing those guys to the hill because it would be a huge achievement off the back of what we achieved in the 50 World Cup and as I mentioned there's some wonderful batters

within that current team yeah and how hungry are you for stats Joe I mean are you one of those bats who is driven by the stats and numbers and averages and people are always comparing you with Coley and Williamson

and Smith and all of those things does that bother you or is it part of what you are or does it drive you on I've never really been won for numbers I've been more about winning games and I think obviously if you're scoring big runs you're helping the team go and do that

so I think there is a little bit of a crossover but more importantly is how many games you can affect and how many games can you really contribute to to help England win and that's always been my mindset that will always be my mindset and of course at the end of my career I'll probably look at things slightly differently

but for now all I'm concerned about is doing my part for the team and the majority of the time that is trying to score as many runs as I can in a given situation what is runouts, eight I think it is now that's even more than boycott well there's about five of them

were in the last year so they need to come to a start but unfortunately it's an unfortunate part of the game it's something that is avoidable and a couple of them being slightly unlucky but, you know, that's something you want to try and eradicate from your game and, you know, make it harder for you to be got out.

So hopefully that's the end of them. Just the last one. I was talking to Alistair Cook other day, and we were talking about you, obviously, and he said at 30, he would have had no idea at all that he was going to retire at 33. How do you feel at 30 and how long are you going to keep going for? Would it surprise you if you suddenly felt a bit done by 33? Who knows? At the minute, the way I see things is I want to play for as long as possible.

I love playing for England. I love playing cricket. I love this former. And I want to see myself play as long as I'm still enjoying it. And for now, I can't see when that's going to stop. So I look at someone like Jimmy and Brody and those guys in the way that they just keep going. keep finding ways to motivate themselves

and find new challenges and they just seem to be getting better and better and they're a great inspiration for someone like me at the point of my career that I just want to play as much as I can so hopefully that fire and that drive stays there and I can keep going well enjoy your big day Friday Joe

I know you'll say the team comes first and all that but it's a shame your family can't be there it is a bit of a shame but I'm sure they'll be you know they'll be watching on and hopefully they can really enjoy it as much as I will. Well, they can't be out there watching him, but we'll hear from his parents, Matt and Helen soon. First, though, we'll hear from his mentor and confidant Michael Vaughan and his first

England captain, Sir Alastair Cook, who told me what Root was like on his first England tour back in 2012. He came on that tour. Actually, I saw him in a one-day game. I think the first time I ever saw him was a one-day game, Essex versus Yorkshire. We had won there. We got promoted for the Divisbury. division two four days after day before me drove up to headingley and had a one day

game the last game of the season then he opened the batting I cannot have been more than I'm going to say 17 I want to say 16 actually but he looked 12 he did look 12 and he got he got 60 off 60 balls you know maybe maybe not quite what was needed in a 40 over game but you just saw he had something about him I remember talking to the Essex lads I he looks so organised for a 16 year old and then obviously he was around around for a bit and then yeah came obviously did well enough I don't quite know how

well he did in for Yorkshire over his period but then came on that tour to Nagpore and played in that last game and how did he play because it was an important game that wasn't it was someone ill or what happened no so he replaced sammet Battelle so right you played a batten rather than an all-rounder yeah so it got to a stage where during that tour

well Sammy battered at six and it was like our third spinner yeah you know behind we played in the first game we only we played three seamers and one spinner and then realized that isn't right and then played two spinners you know played

Monty and Graham Swan for the next two along alongside Sammit Vettel obviously for his all round capabilities but actually with no disrespect to Samick because how well Monty and Swanee bowl we didn't need that extra option of the left armour

And a draw was enough, wasn't it? Exactly. So we went for the extra batter. And in the nets, if you're kind of asking us who was a really good player of spin out the whole team, already you'd have said whoever looked the most comfortable would have been Joe Roots. So it was a brave call in one way, but actually, you know, very sensible to strengthen our batting. And also, as we've seen here, we've seen it over his test match career, what a good player of spinning was. Yeah, absolutely.

Good then, Michael. They'll take us back to your beloved Sheffield, Sheffield Collegiate. I mean, you've obviously known the Root family a long time, and a family really steeped in the love of cricket as well. I used to play with his dad, Matt, for Sheffield Collegiate. I think more in the thirds and the seconds. His granddad Don was a part of the, we called them the Sheffield Collegiate Mafia. It used to travel and follow with us, about four or five elderly gentlemen

with the chairs every Saturday, wherever we play, whether it was Castleford, Scarborough. and there'd be watching us I just remember both Billy, Rudy's brother and Joe just being around the grounds all the time playing cricket with one of those orange wind balls coming into the

dressing rooms and picking up people's bats and taking them out and you'd have to try and have a look in your bag to make sure that the bats were there at the end of the day's play you know the one thing I always remember at Sheffield that Billy was very talented and he's doing well at Glamorgan now it's taking him a little bit of time It's a good move for him then

Yeah, it's done really well for him. And everyone said, look at Billy. He's got all the tricks. He can play all the different shots. Even back then, you know, he could play all the sweeps and the reverse sweeps. He bowled all sorts. Leg spin, seamers, you name it. He could do everything, Billy.

But I also used to look at Joe. He was quiet. But he was just going about his business in a very mature way, even though he was a young player. And my brother actually captained him for the second 11 at Sheffield Collegiate. And I always remember my brother ringing me and said, oh, he's a real player. And what we're going to do, we're just going to do, going to let him open the batting. It doesn't matter how many runs he gets. It doesn't matter how

many balls he chews up. We'll have to get a few runs around him as senior, older players, but we want to give him a chance to really kind of thrive as a player and he used to keep ringing me and saying this kid can really play. He's a really, really good player. And then obviously he progressed through to the first team. Then I got to see him a little bit more

at Yorkshire. You know, I've told the story many times, but one of the main reasons I've retired was because of Johnny Berstow and Joe Root playing in the second team at Yorkshire. I was knackered in the first team, and he was gone. I wasn't playing great. I couldn't train as hard as I wanted. And I kept on sitting on a physio's bed during the games, you know, coming off from fielding, looking at the TV screen, watching other sports rather than focusing on cricket. Then the phone call would always come and

it would always be that Johnny Baxter and Joe Rue got another 100 in the second team and I'd be like, they need to be playing, you know, I'm wasting up a young player's spot here. And that was one of the reasons that, you know, I kind of moved aside. But the one thing that always stands out about Joe and I think it stems from his family and the love of the game. He's so enthusiastic about cricket. You know, it really drives him to be in this play. He just loves playing the game. Whether, you know,

it's a fourth day in goal as England captain, under pressure, I don't think it really matters. He could go back to play for Sheffield Collegiate in the summer and he'd have the same enthusiasm, same love for the game. He'd be the same person which I think, you know, we probably don't mention enough. He's a great, great

person, great around people, just loves the game, loves talking cricket. A bit of a cricket badger, you'd say, Cookie, you'd say he's a bit of a cricket badger, but I think that's what's making him to get to 100 tests, and he's going to play many, many more. He's going to get thousands more test match runs, and it's because of that

enthusiasm that he drives with. It's interesting, you say the same person, but I think an area in which he has had the change, has been, I mean, he's naturally a bit of a bit of a comedian, isn't he? I mean, he's a bit of a character in the dressing room, I'm thinking there's Bob Willis impersonations and all that sort of stuff.

And his first period as captain, and I felt he was still trying to keep that a little bit, but actually he's realised that as Captain of England, you can't. And he seems to be much more, certainly out, the public persona of Joe Rook now is a much more sort of straight-laced,

more mature individual, Alistair. Yeah, absolutely. And I think he'd really grown into the leadership role. I think, I don't think, like, being Captain of England has been natural for him in terms of that, you know, you'd say that Andrew Strauss was a natural leader, Michael Vaughn, I'd say, natural

leader. And I don't think Joe Root is in terms of that kind of stuff. But, you know, you're talking about the love of cricket. His love to be the best captain batsman he can be has driven him to work at it incredibly hard. Yes, he's had to change a little

bit of his, you know, his character in the dressing room. As you remember, the Bob Willis mask, but that wasn't, you know, that wasn't it, the walkout at Nagpur. Remember that? He wasn't wearing a helmet. He was so proud of his England cap. He walked out, the massive smile in his face. This is just the best thing in the world to be playing cricket for England.

Almost not believing that he was there cap on and played beautifully with that smile. Every time he did anything, he had a smile and his face. Obviously, he's a bit different now, the slightly more serious nature of his role in kind of his senior responsibility. But, you know, that love and determination to get better as a leader is unbelievable. And, you know, he wins today and he goes, you know, one win short of Michael's record. and everyone has criticised his captaincy in one way, but that's an unbelievable win ratio and winning all these games at the moment

in the subcontent with his side. It is his side now, isn't it? And he's doing the right for that. Yeah, I think what impresses me more about him than anybody that I've kind of taught cricket with is his kind of drive for getting better all the time. You know, three or four years ago, I thought he was a world-class performer.

And I remember he got 100 at, I think it was at Trent. bridging a one day game he played brilliantly and it was a day-night game i can't remember who it was against and i remember driving back i was driving back home and the phone rang it's joe and i said hello joe and he said hi-i-i-mike said anything for me i went fantastic in he said did you see anything that could improve my game and i thought he was one of the great one-day hundreds i was like well i never got a one-day hundred but i'd have been i wouldn't have been driving home by the way i'd have been celebrating doing something else but i think that's what drives him on even last week when he got his double a nice few text message

with him and again he said is anything that you've seen and that wasn't on this baton just on captain's there anything that you're seeing he's always asking that question is there anything that you've seen that I could improve or the team could improve upon and I think that's very important I had people that I used when I was captain no one really knows who they were or who they are

there's one or two actually not involved in the game that I would use to just try and drive me on as a leader is there anything that I said that I could have said differently and things like that whereas Joe is anything tactically that I could have done differently, anything that you feel that we could have improved as a team. I think

it's a real lesson to anyone that wants to be the best, and he is up there with the best and he will be in years gone by, you know, be talked about one of the greatest, if not, you could argue, the greatest player across all the formats. You think that he's such a good player in 2020 cricket. The way

that he plays spin, I guess, let's be on it, he's got to be involved in the T20 World Cup in India. He has to be. Yes, indeed. The way that he plays the spinners. And then he's a brilliant 50-over player. He has a hasn't got the Chris Gale-style power. But, you know, it's such a wonderful player across all three formats that I do think in time

we will be talking about Joe Root as being England's best ever batsman. How was he in Australia, Alistair, when he got dropped? Early on, what was it, 13, 14, wasn't it? And he was batting out a position. He had a pretty gruesome time and got left out. I mean, in some ways, it's good for you, I think, early in your career,

to have a bit of a setback and reflect and have a look at where you are. and that possibly I think actually more than possibly I think it does potentially make you a better player as a result but it's not very easy at the time to take that No I mean that was a tough tour

for everyone and actually for me I think he might have scored more runs than me up to that up to that game and I was the one who told him we were leaving him out of that last game maybe actually I can't actually remember the reason probably for his own good in one

sense just take him out the firing line for that last it was only the last test match last test match at Sydney where the wheels had pretty much come off that tour it was a disaster and it was almost he was a young obviously a young man at that stage and we left him out of that one game

and he took it terribly as in it broke his heart telling it also me telling him watching it he almost had tears in his eyes and was very quiet but for the next day but obviously around the lads he was as good as gold

as you know running out of the drinks being 12th man but then obviously the tour ended I can't remember if he was in the one day leg of that tour or not, but when we got back to Lords, he'll straight back into the side against Sri Lanka, which seems to be probably his favourite team, his record against him, is phenomenal. And he got a big double hundred, didn't he?

And it was that real, like, I'm here to stay now. You know, I've had that little blip. I know how tough test cricket can be in Australia. That's the standard I've got to get to. And he just went away. You know, there was no sulking a game. Word's incredibly hard at his game. I think he turned up physically in Better Nick.

he's obviously putting a lot of hard yards away from the spotlight and he's kind of just flown from there and when I saw him in Nagpur I don't think even I would have said he'd have been the good as he is now I think he's almost improved beyond what I thought he is always going to be a very very good player but I didn't think he was going to be as good as that and that's the only credit the person can take credit for that is himself

that real drive of determination to work as hard as he has done and be a great team man as well you talked about people in the dress room in the England dressing room who they love playing cricket with and they would say you know they would say Joe Rue right up there

they talked about the big four didn't they for four years or so ago Coley Williams and Smith and Rook was in that group then he has dropped out of that rather I think he just dropped out of the top ten of batsman I mean does he deserve to be still talked about in those in those terms do you think along with those other three yeah yeah

absolutely I mean this is such a big year for him and he started it so well you know the India four tests away massive series for him the way that he plays spin potentially two against New Zealand at home five against India at home then the ashes the one thing I think that it's probably missing on his in his kind of the history books if you like is to dominate an ashes series you know he's done okay against Australia he's played nicely But I think he can dominate an Ashes series, particularly away from home. He's yet to get a century away from home against the Ozzy.

I think that's right. I'm just a cookie. You're the stature. He definitely won the Compton Miller Medal. Did he get 300s in the 2015 series? Yeah, I'm talking to a real domination. I like a monster one. Yeah, domination.

Is that good a player, Steve Smith style, that we've seen Steve Smith twice now. Kind of be the standout individual player. I certainly think he's good enough. and I think that one thing that he's missing is in Australia, can he go and be England's real lead player with a team that I believe will have a sniff. They'll have a sniff of winning in Australia in a few months' time, but it will need Joe Rooke.

I don't think he'll need to. I hope he didn't have to get as many runs individually as he's doing now and I hope he gets more kind of support around him. But I just think that he's got that little tick to kind of produce to really put him in that real super-sup. star status of English test match history. I mean, he scored six who does it, he's scored six-fifties, but no, he hasn't

scored a hundred in Australia. I know on the last couple years, his figures haven't been, you know, like the averaging 60, but he's still averaging 40 over those two years. And it's not easy when seven of your games are in English conditions every single

year. You know, you don't get a whole 12 months of, you know, absolutely for 18 months ago, an overseas player. Sometimes you go to, in Australia, India, you know, you're away games, your home games, you're an Indian player, you've got to get Australia, it's flat, and then you come back to India. So it is hard to always be amazing new good in England with the conditions as they are, because sometimes they are consistently in the bowler's favour. So it's not as if he did dreadfully averaging 40, you know, that would have been England's highest average player over those periods by probably quite a long way as well. So, but I think we've just seen in these last two innings, the real, um,

determination to go when to change that conversion rate and say I don't need to dominate the bowlers I don't need to take the game away from them but in fifth gear like a one day mode I will bat in third gear be a little bit more selfish in one sense knowing how important that daddy hundred is the England side even if it takes a little bit longer rather than trying to do it all in one day trying to do it single-handly and take the game away from the opposition a bit like say Kevin Peterson in a day in a day and a half at very very low risk I just wonder how long he'll go I mean he's 30

he's got what about 4,000 runs to overtake you cookie I'll fly past that I have no I have no doubt you will because because I think if I'd ask you that when you were 30 whether if you'd carry on a bit longer than you did I I don't know I think the captain takes a lot out of you doesn't it and there's a lot going on and and he and he's done you know he's coming towards what four years three years four years of captain now it's it's called coming to that cycle when there can be some burnout but from what you've been saying about him

and what Michaels were saying about it seems to be as if he would he be able to just retire to the ranks and carry on as a bat sort of I mean he's had enough of the captain's here I think it's a bit of him yeah I definitely think he would you know how many times is he played a test match for England and then he's bit different to me and then he's going he went back about two days later to play for York for the T20 because he was desperate to go get in the T20 side you know there's a couple of things about there you don't know again I 30 I would never have thought I'd retired at 33.

No. And I think that there is a big shift once you've been captain to go back into the ranks and mentally. And the only other thing we, you know, you don't know, do you? The mental side of being in the bubble, how long is living in a bubble with his young family going to affect him in terms of his longevity? But I, you don't know the answer to that question. You don't know.

And hopefully physically he's fine. But in terms of pure talent, you know, hunger and ability, you know, he should probably fly past that record and he will deserve it. I honestly I guess it'll all depend a lot on the ashes this year. If he can have a really good ashes series and if he can get the ashes back as a captain

I think we'll have a captain that go on for quite a long while. If that goes wrong, as Cooky said you just don't know how mental that will affect him because if he loses or doesn't win one of the three Ashes series that he's captained in, it's very difficult for him to carry on from Australia

if it goes badly. If it goes as well, I think he'll carry on. And then he has to get back into the ranks as a player. It was one, I mean, it was like Alistair, when he went back into the round. I didn't have any queries that he would be able to just sit in the dress room and just be a player again because he's a good guy. And I think Alistair Cook will be exactly the same. Sorry, Joe Rout will be exactly the same.

We'll just go and be the player. I'll state now, if his back stays fresh and it stays okay, I reckon I'll be playing for England. He'll almost be, he'll be the Jimmy Anderson of the Batting Brigade. He'll just carry on play. No one's going to stop Joe Rout from playing cricket for England. if he's fit enough to do so. Follow England's Tour of India via the TMS podcast

with a new episode at the end of each day's play. That was Michael Vaughan and Sir Alistair Cook. So let's finish with his parents, Matt and Helen. Let's start with you, Matt. What are you going to be doing on Friday morning? Well, pretty much the same as I was doing. First time we played for England, I think. I can remember the tour he was in select on.

He didn't play in the first three tests and we flew out for the first two. Hoping that he might get picked, but he didn't. So I think they picked him in the fourth test, hoping to firm up the series. They were leading going into that. So we were back in England and couldn't get back out because we didn't have a visa.

So we had to watch it on TV, but it was a great occasion. I don't think you ever watching your kids play. You never fully relax when they're out there. It gets a little bit easier as they've done. play more and more. But I remember that first test was really nerve-wracking and it's just great that he did so well in it. I was saying to him in our chat, Helen, how small he looked when he walked out to Bat in Nagpur in his first test. I just remember this. He was, I mean,

very young and he looked young as well, didn't he then? Yeah, he did. He's not looking quite as young now but still looks really fresh face but he's clearly been rather more of a steely character though than that very

young looking boy who walked out to back that first time though yeah much more sheffield steel than it appears at first and who does he get that from

Matt oh his brother definitely but it is it is true isn't I mean Matt he did I just said to me he just looked

he looked like a well not a young boy but he did look young going out and playing He was saying there's Satchentendulco. There's Kevin Peterson who's sort of pinching himself as he walked out to make this debut in Nagpur. Yeah, I mean, he always looked quite young as a kid.

You know, he wasn't particularly tall for his age. He had a bit of a gross spurt. He was about 17. But as you can imagine, when he was sort of 12, 13 playing in men's cricket, he got a lot of balls up around his ears. So, you know, that shot he plays sort of backward of square off the back foot. He scored a lot of runs through there. And I think that's why he plays off the back foot so well.

But, yeah, he's always, I mean, when he played for England for that first time against the Australians, I think he got a bit of stick from the Aussies for looking quite young. But, yeah, even though he's looked quite young, he's got a fairly mature head on his shoulders, particularly good. What was it like in those early days then, Helen, you've got two boys. You can tell that they love cricket, they've got a passion for cricket, you've got a husband who's playing as well. You must have been torn in all sorts of directions, weren't you, looking after them all and getting all the various games on time and so on?

Yeah, well, but we managed quite well because Grandpa Don would help out frequently. So between us, we got it sorted. So, especially if I was working, Don would take that, he went to all over. He went up to Cumbria and... We got rained off twice at Cepras. He said, yeah. Well, pulling a ball. What was it?

Matt, you've got, I suppose then in those days, it was your club cricket that took priority, did it? Yeah, yeah. I can remember, you know, the kids had come along and just play at the side of the pitch, and I remember them bringing in this sort of,

this age group limit to how many overs you could bowl. I think it was six ores at the age of 14 and 15, and they just made a mockery of that, really. They'd been the nets from, you know, the moment we got to the pitch till we dragged them out after close a play. So, but in those days, you know, Joe and Billy be playing along the side of the pitch, playing quite well. And people would say, you know, they're Matt Rootstads, those.

And, of course, now I'm Joe and Billy Rootsdad, you know. But it's quite hard school. I mean, you mentioned about Joe playing and, you know, having big Yorkshire fast bowlers sticking the ball around his head and so on at a young age. I mean, it was pretty tough cricket, was it? Especially for a kid to be playing. Yeah, yeah. I mean, at that age, you know, he'd train with the first seat. And I can remember, it was a few years earlier, Michael Vaughn was at Collegiate,

and when he was a 15, 16-year-old, he had Kenny Benjamin bowl at the net at him. So, yeah, it's a tough school. And, you know, I think you cope with it quite well, even at a very early age. Yeah. How did you feel, Helen, when he was, and Billy, of course, as well,

playing against these men and so on, and you were sitting on the sidelines. You sort of fear for them? Well, not really. no no if they practice hard enough if they miss one they miss one don't they no no they were

I felt quite confident about it when did you feel then Matt that you know these both boys that's be fair both boys were going to kick on and actually become professional cricketers I mean forget the England bit for a moment

but just when can you tell do you think that they were actually better than most quite early yeah I think I think that you can you can sort of tell at a reasonably early sort of early teams

whether or not there's likely to be a chance they could play first class cricket and I think the first hurdle is are they going to be good enough to make a career out of it that's a fairly big decision

to make about it not much later than that and then of course it's question of how far can they go you know I mean I don't think you can have a look at a young teenager and say you know they're going to be good enough

to play for England people do say that but there's a lot that can go wrong between sort of 13 and 20. A lot of things, you know, cricket's the most important part of the life at that age, but it isn't always going to be. It's how they deal with that, I suppose. So there, the cricket enthusiast you has to give way to the parent you as well a bit,

and you're thinking of their futures and whether or not it's worth pursuing and putting all this time in and universities or whatever options there might be, you know, so the parental side kicks in to make sure they're making the right decision, I suppose. Yeah, I suppose it does. And I think the hardest decision is when they get to sort of 13, 14, 15 is handing them over. You know, they got to go play in the county and, you know, you've got to just be brave enough to say, okay, I've done my bit now, I've got them interested in the game, let's hand it over to the professionals. And that's quite difficult.

But they, you know, they were both fortunate enough to go into the Yorkshire system, Yorkshire Academy system, which is pretty good at picking up kids that age and developing them into cricketers. Yeah. What are they like around the house, Helen? I mean, in the garden, where they're playing cricket all the time or were there other sports as well that they took up? They played a lot of cricket in the house on the drive

and was forever hearing them knocking bats in. That used to drive their potty. Two of them at once. Yeah. A ball, a cricket ball in a sock And then they progressed to some sort of mallet saying Ooh, it should drive the bag And do they fight? Were they competitive?

Were they always falling out? Or was it good-natured stuff? Well, it used to get a bit tense Because they had to get, Billy had to get Joe out so that he could bat Finally get him out And then he'd be out three balls later And then Joe would be back in again There was a famous time

a Yorkshire League game at Scarborough where the game had to be stopped while I went off the field, I was fielding to go and break up a fight because that just happened. He was chasing Joe on a pitch with his bat Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, but that's lovely though.

It's difficult being a parent, I think, and I know you see a lot of stuff, particularly like footballing fathers mainly, and mothers too, let's be fair, you know, being just too pushy and you know, really all over their kids. And almost also, you know, you as a decent cricketer, Matt, I mean, almost, you know, pushing your career and your ambitions through your children.

And they're under real pressure. How did you manage to cope with that? Well, I mean, we never had to force them to play. You know, they just wanted to play at every opportunity. So I think all you can do as a parent is give them the opportunities, you know, provide them with the opportunities to go and play. and give them as much support and encouragement as possible. I think it's one thing that we tried to do was just to try and make them feel that they were good,

you know, they were exceptionally good players and believing themselves. I think, you know, a lot of cricket, a lot of sport is between the years, isn't it? Yeah. Could you sometimes see issues? I mean, Joe didn't have a great year last year. I mean, he didn't do have a bad year,

but by his own standards. And then he went to. away and work really hard in the autumn and so on. Could you see things? I mean, do you know his game well enough and being a batsman yourself that you might just see something and do you offer it to him or do you just keep completely out of it now? I do actually, yeah. I mean, I don't think it listens to me anymore. But what I do know from talking to him after games, you know, he seems to be at the time thinking the same sort of things that I was thinking that when I watched it, you know, I was saying, you know, did you consider this? Yeah. Yeah. Or, you know,

his emotions seem to be in tune with mine when he's when he's out there but you know so which i didn't realize it first you know it's only over the years that i've come to realize that we're sort of thinking the same things at the same time so now it's quite interesting because i think whatever i'm thinking he's probably thinking the same thing yeah how do you how do you cope with criticism and media criticism and and you know stuff that you read in the papers if joe's having a rough time or something how do you handle that well um i've come to the decision that going to read the good news. Otherwise, it's just, you could just get too, too upset.

And obviously people are entitled to make points about, you know, his game and what he could have couldn't do and what he might need to improve on, et cetera. But I really hate doing this. But. You mean people like, I guess, criticising him all the time? No, no. No, no.

Well, we had a bit of a bunch of that. It's going to happen. And, you know, I've been guilty of making the same sort of criticisms of other sports, you know, cricketers or tennis players or anything. And then when it becomes, you know, more personal, you get a bigger picture. You see a bigger picture and you just have to not, I mean, particularly social media platforms. Oh, yes. You just really have to just keep off then. But, you know, sometimes I enjoy reading the articles and but mostly try to stick to read.

did it all the good news and not and not get hung up on on any of the more critical articles. I think it gives you a good appreciation of professional sports people and what they're going through. I've got it for my season of a season ticket at Bramall Lane. So I go down there and before I out my mouth to criticise, you know, I'm thinking the same things that, you know, that there are people talking about Joe and Billy, you know, about being critical. So it does give you an appreciation of what people are going through soon yeah it's an interesting relationship isn't it i mean i think i've got a good relationship with joe actually but you know every now and then you know you you're in the heat of the moment you're asking tough question or

something and you know it's it's it's not always easy is it no and i think there's a lot of frustration that that sort of comes out you can imagine you've been toilet away for six hours in the dirt yeah build and you come off the pitch and someone sticks a microphone in front of you and things haven't gone particularly well it's uh it's easy to leave you cool i suppose Absolutely. And what a start he's had to this year, I mean, you know, is we just look ahead to this test match and his hundreds and everything else. I mean, he couldn't, apart from having to sit in his hotel room for six days. I mean, he couldn't really have asked for a better build-up to it, could he? No, he's really applied himself well. I think he's always been pretty good against spin. You know, he's always judged length well. And I remember throwing some balls at him in the nets last year and with a dog thrower. I couldn't believe how far up I had to. pitch it before I could get him on the front foot. And, you know, when they're on some spinning pitches in the subcontinent, he sort of comes into his own. I just hope he can continue that

form into the next series against the new. That was Joe Root's parents, Matt and Helen. You can read more about Joe Root's 100th test on the BBC Sport website and the app where there'll be plenty more coverage during the India series. And there'll be a new TMS podcast on this feed at close of play on every day throughout the series. We're also bringing back the Cricket Social on the BBC Sport website and the app. Join the conversation wherever you are in the world throughout the India series with me, Michael Alistair, and your favourite TMS names. For more insight from Jonathan Agnew, Michael Vaughn and the rest of the Test Match special team,

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