Test Match Special - Katherine Sciver-Brunt Special

Episode Date: May 5, 2023

England’s record wicket taking women’s bowler Katherine Sciver-Brunt speaks exclusively about her retirement from international cricket. In an interview with our chief cricket writer Stephan Shemilt, Katherine looks at the highs and lows of her 20 year England career. She explains why she has decided to give up the international game despite the lure of a final Ashes series and discusses what the future of women’s cricket may look like. Plus Katherine reveals how her cricket career nearly didn’t happen because of a music festival.

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You're listening to the TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live. I'm Stefan Shemmelt and welcome to a special TMS podcast. Legendary England bowler Catherine Siverbrunt has announced her retirement from international cricket. And in this bonus episode, I speak to Catherine about why she's decided to call time on her record. break in career, what she will do next, and how all of this almost never happened because she had tickets to the festival. Catherine, congratulations on one of the all-time great international careers. 19 years, 267 caps for England, 335 wickets.

But, why have you made the decision? decision to end it now? Because I'm an old hag. No. Many reasons. It's definitely the right time and I'm definitely happy with the decision I've made. Reasons, that's been like the hardest bit to work out over the last couple of years. I feel like I've been thinking about it forever because not so much from a love perspective,

but from a like body perspective and am I still giving the best I can for England? That's always the question. Can someone else do what I'm doing better? Am I letting the team down, stuff like that? My ambition was always to go out on top. I wanted to still be at the top of my game, not having comments of, oh, she's slowing down, she can't keep up with the kids.

She should stop, things like that. But I feel like I've done that justice. If I've been completely focused and stuff, I've given it, you know, everything I've got, as I always have. But I think for me, my mind slipped in the last sort of six, six to eight months where I have felt like I haven't been able to give a hundred percent of myself without knowing that I wasn't. So like the stuff that I do outside of cricket is just

completely taken over and my mind and my focus, if you like, of what I want to do with my life now because I'm not a teenager who's a keen being and wants to get stuck in and can't wait for the next tour. I'm not I'm not there anymore. So I didn't feel like it was giving it justice to not be 100% committed and there because I do believe if I tried as hard as I possibly could, had my mind solely focused on this, got lean and fit and worked on my skills for actually what would be longer than anybody got to work on them for this buildup, that I would still be the best bowler we had.

And I like knowing that. And I believe that, but I just can't commit to that. I just can't do it and this role deserves somebody who can do that and can commit to that so I also don't want to become a version of myself that I'm not

I don't want to be this person who's in these games where their thought process is different to how it has been the last 20 years and how it can affect me emotionally and make me become a version of me that I'm not so So, yeah, it's definitely right.

I've thought about it an absolute ton. And there's neither a right or a wrong answer, but this is the one that I'm most comfortable with. So here we are. You said you thought about it a lot, actually, over a number of months. But when did you actually make the decision? When I was in Hong Kong, to be honest. And in Hong Kong with Fairbreak.

And that was, you know, a really great experience. But I very much started to do things, of half-heartedly so like practicing like barely just sort of rocking up and trying to take nothing seriously and to be honest i liked that that version not really caring and not putting too much on myself it was nice to just be able to almost play a bit within myself and you know and then that started i started reflecting on whether i could go back the other way then from that can i now you know, turn this up a ton, bleeding up to the ashes. And I spoke with that about it every single day or hours.

And every time I brought it up, she would smile because it was driving her up the wall. And from that point, I think when I clocked the looking at her eye one of the mornings, I knew she just wanted me to make a decision because she knew it was torturing me. Because I'm not a quitter. I think that's the one thing that's telling me about making a decision. decision either way is that it feels like I'm quitting. It feels like I'm letting someone down or and that's just so the opposite of me. And so when I started thinking of it as not, I'm not quitting something. I'm not letting anyone down and I'm just making a decision for me

and my happiness. That became easier. So that's the decision that you've come to relatively recently because fair breaks only finished a couple of weeks ago. How much of a pull was one last crack at the Aussies. Oh, like so, so hard. Because I absolutely love the Asher series. I love it more than anything. Like, you cannot, you can't explain it and you can't replicate it.

Like, it's just one of those things. And when you're right in the heat of it, it's bloody great. And as a fan, it will be, too. 100% every time watch the men. Like, it's just great. losing it's great like yeah that little carrot was dangled in the west indies and because i had said to nat last year that the win the world cup would be my last one and john john louis actually

threw my mind forward to those three t-20s in the ashes and i seriously thought why not how good would that be and i couldn't see why i wouldn't knowing that i would have a hundred after that so it would be like being able to keep going do you know what i mean but yeah all those things in between have happened, but that was definitely so hard to let go, yeah. We've spoke about you retiring before actually.

And you said to me that the way that the other Claire Taylor retired, she just got up on a chair in the team room, said that was it, and she walked off into the sunset. Now this is similar to what you're doing because you haven't said,

right, this is my last England match. You've played your last England match now you're not going to play again. So you have something similar. You didn't tell anyone that you weren't going to play for England ever again. You're doing it. Yeah, and I didn't even tell Natalie. This is, it is a surprise to her too.

Obviously, she was the first to know, but I think she had in her head that I was definitely going to this Ashes series. It was basically like it would have been so nice just to say to everyone, the sweetie 20s, I'm going to do them, and I'm going to finish at Lord's at home. the best venue in England, in a Natch series, amazing. But the reality is, like, how much pressure would that have put on me to not only contribute in those 3T20s,

but to finish on a high at Lords in front of, it will be a sellout and all your family being there. I think that might have just messed with me a bit. And I can't tell you if it would have or not, but the thought of it potentially, like, turning into something not good. I don't think I would have been able to live with that, so, yeah. So what was the reaction when you told people, both of Natalie, of your teammates, of your family and coaches, all those people that are so close to you?

Yeah, like, well, my family were preparing buying boxes at Birmingham and the Oval and Lords and I was actually sorting it for them too and I honestly just within, it was like a five, it was two weeks in Hong Kong but the five days in a row that were, it just knocked

it out of me basically. Yeah, I didn't want to talk to anyone about it because I didn't want too many opinions. I didn't want there to be anybody that would try and force me to keep going. Not that there would have been but there might have been some of my family members.

because they want they wanted me to have a big send-off they want me to have a stage and a you know a lap of honour or a guard of honour things like that they want that for me but I just want what's going to make me happy at this stage in my life and that's what I feel I've done so I didn't want to feel pressure into almost doing what other people want if you know what I mean well you are going to keep playing you're going to do one more season in the this won't be the last that people have seen of Catherine Brunt on a cricket field yeah I'm going to come join you

I'm going to talk more than welcome I can't swear can I it's dreadful we might have to work on that yeah can talk loads of dross about cricket great yeah I'm going to like the last since my first back surgery in 2007

and then I had another one in 14 and that really did terrify me so I was like I haven't really got an education. I haven't gotten to the passion. The hell am I going to do? Like, if this is the end, what now? So for the last 10 years of my life,

I've worked really, really hard at securing my life outside of cricket. And I'm really proud of what I've done. And I really love what I do, which is being the most important thing, is to find something that I love that's not cricket. This is probably, we're talking about, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

And that is all just from me, from reading, from watching, from doing it, failing and then learning and then succeeding and then failing again, like pretty much just like cricket. But, yeah, I've really enjoyed the journey. I've got, you know, I've made something really great out of it. I'm probably fine now for the rest of my life, which I'd never thought I'd ever be able to say. And cricket gave me the stepping stone to be able to make that happen. and so now I'm I have I'm now allowed to sit down and not be told to where to go at what time and what to where and be at gate five at Heathrow at 5pm yeah so I'm like it's going to be so nice to be able to do what I want when I want follow my wife around watch her be brilliant and hopefully her pay for it but but how do you feel because it is over I said it at the start you know a nine a nine a nine year career, more wickets for England than anyone else, more international wickets than anyone except Duel and Goswami. How do you feel it's over? People are going to know that it's

over and you're not going to pull on the three lines anymore. Is their sadness, is their pride? Is it all of those things? Yeah, it's all of those things. Yeah, I did feel relieved when I made the decision. I felt really relieved. I then straight away felt really sad because, oh wow, you got me Yeah. So, yeah, it is sad, but I do feel relieved and that I'm in a good place with it now. Is the plan just one season of the 100 then ride off into the sunset? Yeah. It always sounds funny that line, isn't it? I'm just going to bring a stallion to Trent Bridge just right off. Yeah, it will be. Follow that around the world for however long she wants to. to continue doing it also

and then maybe look at a family and what that means and yeah, we'll see. Your last game for England was the defeat in the semi-final of the World Cup against South Africa. Is there a little bit of regret that didn't make it through to the final

and go one stage further? How'd you look back on that last game that you did play for England? Yeah, of course, like, yeah, there's a lot of feelings from that game for everyone. Basically, we've got a new team, a new coach, loads of youth, been through some pretty big changes in just the last year.

But it's really exciting, and there's definitely a window where you can see exactly what this team can be. It would have been brilliant for us all to be there at the same time, and that's how lucky Australia is, is that they've got this team who are full of experience, like full of it and at a level where they know their team, they know their setup and they're just running and they've just ran with it for as long as they possibly have and it works and we've gone a bit like this and how we want to go about things and then having new players

in and then a new coach and trust me we'll get there because those five warm-work games we had in South Africa when we arrived were brilliant. We absolutely smashed everyone. The amount of freedom we played with and confidence was brilliant. And what the saddest bit was that no one, by the Pakistan game, none of you got to see any of that really. You got to see bits, but there's so many of our players who are disappointed with not being able to give that side of themselves. And if that's your sport, you're going to be on,

sometimes you're going to be really off sometimes. And unless you can all come together, then it doesn't quite work. but that will happen and it will happen soon. Were your own frustrations on that day compounded by the fact that you knew it was your last World Cup? Yeah, I guess so. Like, I don't want this to be a story. Like, I didn't want that to be a story.

I was really, really actually upset and disappointed in some stuff that was written about me after that game. Because if anybody had followed me the last 19 years, you know who I am and what I'm about and the players know who I am and what I'm about. And I didn't want, you know, there to become something of that. But when you're, you know, full of emotion and having these thoughts inside that no one else is carrying,

of course, something's going to be different. But can you control that? Who can? Like, most people, you know, in some sports, get to hide for a minute. Do you know what I mean? But you have to – a batter can get out for a duck. walk off and go and destroy the changing room and say every swear word

you wouldn't have a clue if anything like that had happened but a bowler can get smashed for 30 and then they got still filled for an hour where do they go to smash things and swear and you're always on show and it's just one of those things you spend your whole career

harboring it because it comes from a good place but yeah 100% affected the way I felt but I didn't know it before I went into it for sure because if I knew I'd act all crazy before I went out to probably wouldn't play. You're listening to the TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live.

Still to come, we'll go through Catherine's achievements, discuss what she thinks the future holds for the women's game and how her career and live could have been so different if she decided to go to a music festival. That's all after this. BBC 5 Live. I'm Mette Antonio. I'm Callum Wilson

and this is the Footballers Football Podcast. We'll be discussing transfers, injuries, goals. Oh no, no, no. It'll be me talking about the goals. We'll be joined by Football Fanatic, Ricky Hayward Williams. This is the only place where you can hear what top professional players

think about all things Premier League. Hold on. My agent's called me. This could be a point. Hello. Transfer live on the podcast. What's going on? No one wants him.

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The TMS podcast from BBC Radio, 355 live 335 is more wickets than anyone has taken for England across all formats only Jewel and Goswami has taken more in international cricket three ashes wins 250 overworld cup wins

one T20 World Cup win how do you reflect on all of that how does it make you feel when I say those things that you've achieved when you hear them like list off you realise you've you've done it all like you've achieved it all

but yeah I really I really just love taking part in them winning them was brilliant don't get me wrong but it's the journey like the journey I've had

has been like so good the people I've met like the memories have made like some of these girls will never get to make some of the memories

that I've made like and it's like giving me so much like it's giving me best friends for like a wife a roof over my head like and like and there's still things to come so i'm just i'm just so grateful and happy for

the time that i've had um which was probably double the amount that i thought i would get so it's all good well you nearly turned it all down you were a 19 year old with a ticket to v festival when claire connor asked you to play in a test match against new zealand and you were going to go to me because you wanted to see the Kings and Leon amuse and your sister Rachel had to talk you into it. I really didn't happen. I know that is, that is wild, isn't it? I sometimes think about that and I think, what the hell.

But that's what you are when you're 19. You do daft things and like you make the worst decisions. But luckily I had a really, well, have a forceful sister who is not afraid to speak her mind and practically pushed me to back towards Claire Connor to say, I'm sorry, I've just lost my mind, can you please take back what I said and take me with you to South Africa or wherever it was. But it was actually New Zealand, is it?

But, yeah, I owe Rachel a lot for that because much as I went kicking and screaming, after a week, I was like, this is what I want to do for ever, or as long as I can, like, this is brilliant. And I literally didn't look back. I just had to be pushed into it. And I guess that's what I'll tell anybody listening

that's thinking about taking it to the next level. Just go for it. And then you can always say no in the end, but you don't want to miss out, and I nearly did. And on top of all that, the England cricket teams bought you a wife as well. It has. I don't know how managed that.

I think everybody needs a ying to their yang, don't they? Like, Anya Shrub's always my bowling ying yang, and when I met Nat, there's not many people who have put up with me, like I'm daft, and I think in small doses, but like I am as soft as a brush as well, and that just has the patience of a saint, and also is just an incredible human who's really driven and ambitious and great at everything, which is slightly annoying as well. So I mean, you can't let that pass, can you? So I tied her down. How is this going to work when she's going off to play for England, either at home or abroad? Do you still want to be there watching her? Or is it a slightly, an odd dynamic if you're around a team

that you are no longer part of? Is this even something not really thought of yet? Yeah, I haven't really. I spoke to John Lewis a couple of days ago when I announced it and he said to me, we're still here for you. We'll support you and anything you need. Just keep talking to me, whatever you

want and, you know, that meant a lot to me. And I told him that I just needed some time to reflect and just chill and sit back and do me for a little bit and then I would look at what my options were and I'm not going to

say no to anything, I don't think, because why would I? I'd like to try everything. Like, if somebody wanted me to do, for instance, an assistant coaching role in the BBL or a mentorship with one of the counties or a coach for a 100 team or a bowling consultant, anything, like I would probably try my hand at anything like I did commentary and a founder that I liked it. So these things are, you know, there's having lots of different avenues is great because I like to have variety and that's why I'm an all-rounder because you don't want to be bored.

So, yeah, I'd love to grab anything that anybody threw at me. How do you reflect on the way the game's changed in the time that you have played it and not necessarily on the field, but all the opportunities, professionalism that has come to the game, WPL now, which has had an extra dimension

to women's cricket, you have spanned those eras. How do you reflect on that? Not sure, to be honest. It's mind-blowing in it. Like, as soon as the auction happened, we all just looked to each other and we were like, what the, like, this has just changed everything.

Like, the only thing that I worry about is now is where it will change people's focus. Like, as you're seeing Shab near Mishmel, ultimately wanting to spend more time with the family because the schedules are unreal. And as you get older, and if you're an all-rounder, you can only spread yourself so thin. And your family and being just at home in your own bed

and not in a suitcase is a massive part of feeling happy and human. So some things have got to give, and some people are saying goodbye to international cricket to just have the right mental capacity to be able to play those franchise stuff because they are nicely separated. And you can pick and choose if you're, you know, a good player. So basically that's now, isn't it?

And people will chase money. Anybody that says they don't play for money, so I'm just like, are you serious? Like, you've got to factor that in. Like, look at the, you know, economy and the cost of living. You've always got to constantly think ahead. Like, I've got this till I'm 30, 30 odd. Like, what about the rest of my life? What am I going to do then?

So, yeah, money. is going to change some stuff. It's going to change the way people think, play, spread their time. And that's important, but, and that's, I think, for me, the biggest difference, but also the biggest worry. And that's what I was going to ask.

Worries the word, actually, I was going to ask you about, do you worry about international cricket that the big three, England, Australia and India will be able to stay strong because they can pay their players and compete with those franchise leagues, but maybe some of the other international teams won't be able to stay as strong.

strong. We've seen it with South Africa and a little bit with the West Indies. Countries that were really becoming a force in the women's game might now no longer be able to do that because their players are seen a different way of life, a different way of earning their money in franchise cricket. Or do you think there might even, you know, is there going to be another Catherine Brunt who plays for international cricket as long as you have? Well, I hope so. That was the goal. I wanted, I said I would step away if somebody came and chump my heels off and there's always been that potential hasn't there there's always been we've got plenty of talent don't get me wrong it's just whether or not they can stay fit

because getting injured these days is quite easily because there's so much cricket I think I was blessed the first 10 years playing two tours a year or something so yeah I've had a slow build-up into my you know my workload so these girls though now they come in and they're bowling tons per week so. I do worry for that, that we need to be looked after very well. And what the best thing I think for us would be, as the men do, is rotate their bowlers and rotate their players. There's nothing wrong with having a one-day captain, a T-20 captain, a test captain. The men do it. And it just gives people's chance to breathe and chance to, you know, rest and let somebody else have some stress for a bit and then being able to rotate our seamers like how important is that

in keeping them fit and fresh and and keen because it's just something we've never done and I've not I understood it because there wasn't much to pick from but I'd love to see that be the future of it there'd be so much to choose from that we get to look after these people so much that they don't step away like not did in September and miss all of that tournament you want to be able to say, come in for two one days and one, two T-20s, but you can go home between that, for instance. That is just, for me, it's just like a no-brainer of being able to swap and change and give people time and space that they need.

And what about protecting the international game, that it remains the most important thing in women's cricket above franchise tournament? You can't replace wanting to represent your country. Yeah, I've always been really proud of that, being able to. to represent England knowing I'm one of the best players in England and that I'm there on behalf of them and have the whole nation behind me. Like it's such a great feeling.

And that was the only thing you did it for. You didn't do it to pay a mortgage. Why, I'm not thinking about that at 19. Or anything like that, you just do it and you crack on and you think about nothing else, no worries, and it's great. And I'd love for everyone to feel like that and feel like that forever because they're really worse, the best times of my life and my career. That's most certainly what's happening now is that the way people think

and the way things are going might end up going that way once all the 30-year-olds have gone from this team because the 30-year-old you're not in your family and Heather. They're all still very much from that era. So they're there and trying to instill that in our young players for sure. But, you know, time will change things. How is you back? And how are you affected in everyday life through what cricket has taken its toll on your body?

Oh, don't get me wrong. In the last 19 years, it's affected my life and my everyday life a lot. Like, I've had times where I couldn't go to the toilet properly. I couldn't get changed on my own. I couldn't sleep for more than two hours a night I was in a wheelchair at one point I used to walk around the kitchen at 2 o'clock in the morning

banging me out against the wall like some of the yeah I mean if anyone knows what sciatic is like you'll know exactly what I'm talking about but I've been I felt very debilitated right now I feel good and the last few years I've been good to me surprisingly nearly 40 so

yeah I'm in a good place with it and it's not had any impact on my decision at all, which I wanted it to, but it didn't. So, yeah, all good. Some quick ones, when you say the first thing that comes to mind, best moment?

I mean, I cannot beat my first Ashes experience. I cannot, no matter who talk to and how many years go by. Like, I don't think anything, and I never, it's so funny, I used to think it's so hard to start on something like that, because nothing can beat it, but you always try to, and you always try to remember that.

But that was honestly just like a once-in-a-lifetime week for me. Like, imagine coming fresh off, not even not off debut, but my debut ashes, I don't really know what the ashes. I knew the ashes, but I didn't know it was about, like, I soon found out day one. It's Patrick trying to knock everyone's head off. But to be able to, like, play in that and, like, play the way I did, but joining on this huge, like,

a celebratory moment that I didn't quite understand, but got to understand, like, it was just awesome. And, yeah, the 100% the best few days of my life, yeah, for sure. Worst moment? There's been quite a few, actually. Because, as you know, as an athlete, like, there's way more lows than there are highs, like, way more. I mean, you spend most your life failing.

probably being carried off the pitch yeah that was a dark time as in a wheelchair everyone was crying I thought that was it and yeah it was a bit of a mess to be honest but it also like helped me as well

probably with the next part of my career best friends in the game you know I love good people like there's nothing better than going to a franchise team and just being amongst good people like I never want to join a team that's just stacked with really great players because as great as that would be sometimes you don't get the best bond

and the best like out of the experience but Elise Bellani from Australia great crack off the pitch Emily Smith, great crack Kingie, Alana King very funny, Mignon Dupree one loveliest human in the whole world like so lovely

Nick Carey I actually had a good stint with Meg Langanin for us for as quiet and as completely polar opposite to me as she could be

like she's she's a good girl loves the game Deandra doting she's funny like she just messes with me all the time and Shaddenham

I've had a good couple of games were very similar like in temperament and attitude and she's just so black and white with how she sees things

she does not hold back but yeah and then obviously Amy Nan Sophia Donkley should go Lydia Greenway like I got

the list goes on like every every this is the best thing about the England team right every single person that's

come in the squad is a legend great girls all very supportive some obviously that click more with because I'm you know

unique um toughest opponents the best battles I've ever had Alyssa Healy for sure she's giving me nightmares

because she was one of the first people right that just took you on she didn't care if you were great at the time or if you weren't known for you know bowling balls to hit back over the top she would just find a way and she would try and smash you every ball

and that was something I hadn't come across in a long time and like Jimmy Anderson I don't like going for boundaries so she was one of my nightmares um de andre's a bit of a nightmare as well but not really i didn't really feel like i wouldn't win i always felt like i could win that most of the time um tammy beaumont in the nets what an absolute nightmare she's so competitive we would have big slag matches in the in the nets shouting each other but other than that honestly i don't

feel like anybody really got the got the better of me mentally you know yeah other than that I think just but Susie Bates just the sheer awkwardness of not knowing what she's going to do next and what will you miss the most about playing for England

I will miss the feeling where I turn into the Hulk that's not a thing by the way it's just my best way of describing it right so during a game where you've got to like find something from somewhere you've got to find this in a beast because

as we know it, 50 over games, they're six hours long, right? You've got to keep yourself, like the first 20 minutes are like there because you can't help but just run on adrenaline, but that teeters out. And then test matches, well, that's multiple days, multiple naps, multiple over, like you've got to find stuff from somewhere. And when it's, when you can, the moment where you can flip the switch and become this like animal who's just charging in and all they're seeing is just trying to cause Carnies.

When I have those moments, it's the best feeling ever. And I can't explain it. All I can do is say the last time I felt it was that Ashes test match in Australia. How do you normally find it? What is the trigger usually? Is it someone coming at you? Do you have to have around with a teammate? Do you have to have around with yourself?

What is that trigger for the Hulk to come out? Yeah, generally somebody taking me on, making, like, which is their job but I take offence to it how dare you hit me for a boundary and I just start chuntering to myself and then go up four miles per hour the crowd is a huge one for me

and I've never really had that we never had like in that test match there were people singing songs they'd made songs for us and they were loud as and that I really you don't you block a lot out but I really tuned on to that and that got me that got me really going

Courtney Winfield Hill was the main curator in that and a lot of our academy girls. So it felt like, really, like we knew how much they were behind us, really felt it. So big occasions, people getting behind you. If my family ever came to a game, which they didn't often come to ever, I would really want to impress them. So they were a good spark. But generally, just the battle, someone sticking their chest out and having a go at me would basically trigger something.

How will you feel the next time you see England take the field and you're not involved? I would think, thank God I don't have to do that warm up. Honestly, I will be fine. I stopped playing, I didn't tell anyone, but I stopped playing one day international cricket last summer after that first game at North Ants. I decided that I would just let the youngsters run free and prepare for the next 50 of the World Cup

even though I was still playing it good and from that moment on I have been on the bench now watching the 50 over stuff so I've had a lot of time to watch and go oh I wish I was playing because I generally play everything

never sit out unless I'm injured so yeah I know I'll be good I'll sit and watch with my eyes closed when Nat's playing for sure because I hate that but I'm going to be their biggest fan and hopefully I'm going to be in every hospitality box there is so for all you county you know teams around the country there's some chief

execs who are going to get a big bill because you're going to be in their hospital just keep me in mind get me in the box if you want me to entertain someone I'm your woman but I like pink champagne if anybody's wondering and what what has it meant to you to be able to pull those three lines onto your chest for all these years I can't I can't I can't tell you that step i honestly i i can't like it's why i've spent too long thinking about the end because i never wanted it to end oh it's it's a lot of things like it's saved my life for sure and it's created me an amazing life that i can only have dreamed of both then and now yeah i love it it's such a special sport it's an art it's you know a

a life lesson. It's everything you need. What's everything I needed to be who I am today. I'm proud of the last 19 years and I'm proud of who I am now and all the people that I've played. Yeah, it's been special. Not something I can describe. That's the best thing I can and way I can describe it for you. What would you say to that 19 year old with a ticket to the festival? wasn't sure what to do no I'd smack myself around the face and be like

what are you doing go back what would I say I would say stop at 10 years no I don't know honestly I don't know

because I feel like everything happened the way it did for a reason it's been great and I've loved every stage every step

no I'm not bitter about how far cricket's going. I am just proud that I've been in the last two decades and influenced the game to go in the direction it has and been a stepping stone to make this game greater and more accessible path for women and I will continue to do that.

All I can say is, congratulations, Catherine. Good luck with whatever comes next. And obviously, we are going to see you playing in the 100 later on this summer. I think we're going to see lots of you around the cricket matches as well. You are. Hopefully in a, what's the word, with decor.

Or lack of. You're listening to the TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live. That was Catherine Siverbrunt. There are plenty more podcasts available on BBC Sounds, including episodes of my series From the Ashes with Glenn McGraar and Stephen Finn, No Bulls with Alex Hartley and Kate. Cross and our weekly IPL roundup with Simon Mann, Nick Eshragani and Ravi Bipara.

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