Test Match Special - Kishan goes crazy as India hammer Pakistan

Episode Date: February 15, 2026

Daniel Norcross is alongside World Cup winner 2017 Alex Hartley and Aatif Nawaz for reaction to India’s T20 World Cup victory over Pakistan in Colombo. Get the thoughts of both captains, Suryakumar Yadav and Salman Ali Agha, and player of the match Ishan Kishan who got India off to a flying start by scoring 77 off just 40 balls. Plus, the TMS team in Kolkata looks ahead to England’s final group match against Italy.

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From the BBC, this is the interface. the show that explores how tech is rewiring your week and your world. This isn't about quarterly earnings or about tech reviews. It's about what technology is actually doing to your work, your politics, your everyday life, and all the bizarre ways people are using the internet. Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts. You're listening to the TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live. Harding into Osman Tharik.

Bold him. Middle stump from Harding. He had one ball to dismiss him, and he used that one ball to perfection. India register a huge win over Pakistan. They win by 61 runs, having bowled out Pakistan for 114, with two overs remaining. A sensational win. India victorious here in Colombo by 61 runs. So in the fixture that we wondered whether it would happen at all between India and Pakistan Last minute diplomatics meant that we did get a game but it's same old same old this time of the

R Pramadasa Stadium in Colombo Pakistan being thrashed by India India winning by 61 runs and at no point in today's game did they ever really look like coming close to India Pakistan from the very outset brilliant batting from Ishan Kishan, the standout player with the bat today. And then with the ball, well, I tell you whether it was the bowling itself that was so particularly skilled or some of the top-order batting that was so inept. World Cup winner Alex Hartley is alongside me, as is Artif Nawaz. We are going to chew the cut and try and work out what NIRTH has happened there.

What has happened, first headline is that India has won three out of three. There through the next round there was never any danger of that. In all probability, Pakistan will be two. if they win their last game against Namibia, which they surely will do. If they don't, however, they will be behind the United States on net run rate. And it's even a tiny sniff of possibility

for the Netherlands if they could beat India, but that's not going to happen. So there is something big on that game for Pakistan, and I don't think anyone really considered that to be a dangerous fixture for Pakistan. But after watching the way they played today, I was hugely disappointed, I was hugely disappointed with how they both.

Older Dishan Kishan. They did drag it back in those middleovers with the ball, but then with the bat, how they found themselves 34 for 4. 13 for 3 in double quick time. That did for their chase. Chase, they needed to make a 176. The highest chase it would have been in a World Cup match, T20 World Cup match between these two men's sides.

But nonetheless, it felt like a pretty limp performance. It really did. I think it's fair to say that this Pakistan team didn't play to their potential. They're a lot better than that, particularly their top four, who would have really fancied their chances, despite the fact that they let India get about 20 runs too many. Chahina freely, very expensive with the ball today. Just couldn't find anywhere to hide 15 runs off his, 15 and a half runs off his two overs apiece, so 31 from his spell altogether. And Shadab also expensive, went for 17.

Salman Aliaga with many options with the ball, used seven bowlers in total. He was given good performances by Osman, Thaerik, Saima, Yu. and himself bold really admirably. You're going to league run somewhere against India, I suppose at 175 they did let them get away 20 more. Perhaps they felt the need to overcompensate when they came out to bat, not even overcompancy, but compensate for that

when they came out to bat their top four and they sort of played all manner. Yeah, thank you very much. I'm down here with Ishan Kishan as a man of a match. I'll ask Kavita Singh, senior vice president of Aramcoe to please hand over. A fabulous award for a first. absolute fabulous innings.

77 today, that's got to feel amazing. Ishaan. 100% I think the wicket was not that easy in the beginning, but you know, sometimes you just have to believe what you want to play, what shots are on, and you know, you have to just focus on your strength. So I was just keeping it simple and, you know, watching the ball and playing with the field,

maybe making, trying to make them run as much as they can, but yeah, I think it worked pretty well in my side. Everything looks this completely in sync. Your hands look magnificent. Today you favoured the offside a little more than you have in other tournaments. Was that something that was, yeah, you had a new game plan? I think I did work a lot on my offside game, you know.

It will give me the balls where I want them to bowl if I play good shots on offside. So I was just trying to hit the gaps because it's a big boundary and you know, when it's a big ground you get bigger gaps. So I was just trying to keep it simple, like I said, trying to hit the gaps, trying to at least take two runs because, you know, Wicked was not easy. And, you know, I had that in mind that we need to.

to put like total like 160, 170 runs and it will be a very good total for us. Ishan, the lead up to this match is enormous. From both camps, I'm sure, lots of pressure, lots of anxiety. Do you feel now that there's a sense of relief now moving into the backup of this tournament? I think, you know, India versus Pakistan. It's always a special game, not only for us, for our country as well. So, you know, we had to win this one. It was a very important game.

And you know, they had a pretty good spinners in their side, and we were just supposed to, you know, play the good shots. And, yeah, winning this against Pakistan team, you know, it will give us a lot of confidence going ahead in the tournament and, you know, we'll try to just keep the momentum going. A quick word on Jasperip Bumra and Hardik Panya in those first five overs. I think they bowl tremendously well, you know, paceballers, when I was batting, when Shaheen was bowling.

I didn't feel like the ball was doing much for the paceballers, but at the same time looking at them bowl, so two beautiful overs. So yeah, it was a plus point for us and especially we know how just he can bowl whether he has new ball in his hand and whether he's bowling in the dead overs and especially credit goes to Hardik Pandya

for keeping it on the tight areas, you know, bowling what we planned before the game and executing his plans pretty well. Special day, Ashan, congratulations, mate. Good luck for the rest of the time. Thank you so much. Thank you. That was Matthew Hayden talking to the player of the match. Ishan, Kishan.

And he really did bat better Alex Hardy than anybody else on show today. I mean, his numbers are just head and shoulders above everybody else. 77 off 40 balls, 10-4s, three-sixes. There are only three further sixes in India's innings. He managed to keep the strike, farm the strike, and you saw how hard it was for the likes of TILAC Varma, 25 or 24. Suria Kuma Yadav, the skipper, usually explosive, 32 of 29.

So it was a tricky pitch, wasn't it? And he made it look easy. I think it was when Suria Kuma Yadav was struggling. I was like, okay, that's a special innings, because he came out and he found the boundary from. ball one. Yes, he was eased into his innings because Shaheen Shara Freed didn't bowl too well at him.

His first over went for 15 in the power play ball, the second one of the power play. But he was the only batter who could time the ball on that surface and I think for him to recognize that or recognize that he was on and just carry on. It was very impressive.

It started pretty well for Pakistan by which I mean the first over. Yeah. When Salman Aliyaga the skipper brought himself on to bowl and we've seen a few different bowling plans on Pakistan. They are a flexible outfit, which should stand them in good stead for other challenges later in the tournament. And he picked up the wicket of Abashik Sharma really early on.

To that stage, one for one. End of the first over. You're thinking game on. Crowds gone berserk. Atmosphere's amazing. Place is completely packed. And you didn't hear silence because although there's about 80% Indian fans, about 20% Pakistan fans,

so they made their presence really felt. but it was in that partnership which dominated by Ishan Kishan. 87 they put on in 7.4 overs of which Isha Kishan scored 76. I mean I don't want to belabor the point

but it was where he was sitting here Matthew Aid was talking about accessing the offside some of his leg side sixes were enormous did Pakistan bowl badly at him or did he just have one of those inspired days? I think there were bad, but I think Shahin Shah-Friedy bowed badly.

I don't think he's bowled well at all. In this tournament, he definitely doesn't look at his best. He couldn't nail his yorker. He was either too full in the slot or he was too short. So I don't think he necessarily bowled well. And then there was probably one or two bad balls and over. There was a few outside the off stump where, I'm sorry, if you've got the covers up in the power play,

you're going to get cut for four as a spinner. And everybody knows that. You know, a bra in particular was really expensive, and usually expensive for him. I think he was one of the best spin bowlers in the world just couldn't quite get it right today. So I think Ishan Kishan with the way he was batting also made Pakistan bowl poorly, if that makes sense.

Yeah, I mean, Abraal was a massive disappointment for me. Three overs for 38. He was taken to the cleaners. I'm going to try to find some crumbs of comfort, some kernels of hope, because this tournament is far from over for Pakistan. We've mentioned it already. They've beat Namibia.

They've got three more games to play in the Super 8s, with a real chance of getting through to the 7th. semi-finals, playing on pitches like today's really turned. There was some extravagant turn, especially for Sae Mayube, who bowled really well today, Artiv. And so, Pakistan's game plan of having those spinners is not a bad one, and could yet come to fruition here in Sri Lanka. It's just that in the immediate aftermath of everything else that happened in the game, I know it's hard to see that, but, you know, it's not all doom and gloom, is it, or is it,

or is it, or faces suggesting it is? No, no, I'm just very hot, Daniel, because the AC's off in this room now. Yeah, sorry about that. Yeah, we're going to have to find some kind of AC balance here. But it's going to be difficult for this Pakistan team because it's going to be quite brutal, the post-water back home. And, you know, there's going to be a really negative reaction to this, despite the fact that, as you said, they still have a very strong chance of making it through to the Super 8s

and indeed to the semifinals because they have a really good combination. Their spinners, their attack, their balance. It kind of fits this tournament perfectly. But they have to try and keep in mind as they've just played the best team in the world who've come in and put in a very clinical performance. I feel like India has some kind of psychological hold over Pakistan, perhaps that head-to-head record, not just in World C-20s, Pakistan having only won three of the 17 matches they've played against each other in T20 internationals. That's starting to become something that really weighs heavily on Pakistan's minds and perhaps creating the kind of pressure that doesn't allow them to actually play to their potential. They're constantly looking to compensate in those big moments.

I felt like that's Shaheen's big problem as well. He's trying to compensate. Every time he gets it for a six, he tries to come back and do something even more complex and world-bending, when really he just needs to try and execute his basics. Yes, first up to talk to Salman Aliaga, captain of Pakistan. Salman, commiserations on the loss. Can you break it all down tactically for me?

Yeah, I think we were believing over spinners, and they had our off day today. The execution was missing in some parts of the game. But we were obviously going to always believe our spinners because they have done really well last six months. And with the batting, I think we didn't start well. And in T20 games, if you lost, like, three or four wickets in Power Play, you're always chasing a game.

Having watched the three games prior to this that have been played here with the team's batting first, managing to get a score and then defend it, and also with the team's batting second being bowled out, What was it you discussed with your troops, yourself, Heirsen and everyone that said batting second would be the way to go? I think to be very honest, like in first inning it was a bit tacky. It was that the ball was gripping as well. So the execution was I think missing when it's come to bowling,

but I think the pitch played better in the second inning than first inning. But our bowlers like we didn't bowl according to the situation and when it's come to batting we didn't apply to ourselves and gave us a chance to go deep in the game. Is there anything to be said about this being a big occasion that has you and your team kind of trying to deal with emotions as well on the day? Well, in these kind of games, the emotions are always going to be high. We just need to deal with that because we have played enough cricket and we have played

enough these games like that. So it's just we need to gather ourselves very quickly and we have a game in two day times. We need to look forward for that as well. And still kind of look ahead to the rest of the tournament because this isn't the end, is it? Yeah, obviously, you have to see the bigger picture. We have a game in two times we need to win that game and qualify for the Super Four, and then it's a new tournament start again. Okay, well all the best with that new start.

Thank you very much. Captain of Pakistan, Salman Ali Agha. Now time to speak to Surya Kumayadav, the victorious captain, captain of India. Surya, what about the victory today impresses you most? I think this is for India. But yeah, it's completely, we played the same brand of cricket what we wanted to play. I told you at the toss as well. I think batting first was a better option on this wicket and the way Ishan batted and he was batting in the last few games and also in the domestic circuit.

He batted the same way and took the team ahead. In coming here, there was obviously the understanding it would be different, it would be a slow pitch. Was the plan to attack in the way that he did? Not really. We wanted to. to play the same way how we were playing. I think Ishaan, Ishan thought something out of the box. After 0-4-1, there had to be someone taking responsibility in the power play. And the way he took that responsibility, I think it was amazing. I think we were very ahead in the power play. There was a little bit of lump in between 7 to 15, but then that's the beauty of T20 cricket.

And the way Tilak, Shivam and Rinku batted, I think it was commendable. 175 you get on the board. How many above power did you guys feel that was? See, it's difficult to tell when we were batting first because you never know there might be a little bit of duo or Rikai might play a little better under lights. But as soon as we reached 175, we thought it was 1520 runs above par. I think 155 would have been a very tight game. But then 175 was a very good score. And the ploy with how to attack them with ball, what was the discussion? No, I think we followed the same thing what we did before when we played them.

Bahadik took the new ball, taking charge from ball one. Then Bumra coming in, what he does the best. He showed the world why he's the best bowler in the world. And then Warun Kuldeep, Aksar, as a matter of the fact, Tillak as well, coming and chipping in. I think it was great to see everyone contributing. How do you keep the run going all the way back from winning the trophy back in Barbados? You continue to go on.

How do you ensure that this keeps going? We'll think about that tomorrow. First, we'll go back, say, have some good time together as a team. and then when we take the flight tomorrow, reach Ahmedabad, we'll start thinking about the next games. Well done today. Congratulations on the wind. Thank you. So a couple of little things have come out of that for me.

Syria can we add a certain difference of opinion there between him and Salman Aliaga, who thought that batting first was a good idea. The numbers suggest, well, Pakistan Noss by 61 runs. Sounds like it was a good idea. But actually, if you quiz the movement on the pitch, there was a lot more spin in that first innings. I think that it was the right decision to bowl first.

The pitch actually did play a little bit easier in the second half, and it's just that Pakistan did not execute very well with the bat at all. They didn't, but the games that have played on here, teams have won batting first and defending. So you sort of, India have looked at that and gone, okay, it might not be what we would usually do because, like Sura Kumar was just saying that there is that risk the dew might come in, it might skid on,

it won't do as much, and it didn't do as much. they had the runs on the board. It's such a vast outfield. Boundaries aren't that easy to come by. We've seen that throughout the competition. So actually having runs on the board gives you a little bit of a buffer. But Pakistan should have been better

because the ball was definitely doing more in the first innings. It really was. And we were looking at that, thinking, right, that the big threats are going to be Warren Chakravati, Kordip Yadov,

Aksha Patel, especially bowling at the pace that he did bowl at, or does bowl at. The problem for Pakistan was that they were, blown away by Hardik Pundia and Jasprit Bomber. Now, anybody can be blown away by Jasbid Bumra,

and Hardik Pundi is a very fine bowler, who is getting up to 86 miles an hour. But some of the batting in those first three or four overs, Artiv, will have incensed Pakistan fans. And just fans of neutral fans, who wanted to see a tight game. And I don't know where to start. I almost want to start at the end of the collapse,

which was Baba Azam, who played a wild heathed Akshar Patel, When he's been criticized for being too much of the glue, this was the moment at 34 for 3 when he needed to be a bit gluey. And he plays a wild swing across the line. He's seen his captain ship a ball up in the air. He's seen Fahann get out to a pretty limp shot early on. That was the time for him to actually lead into his strengths, wasn't it?

It certainly was. But I'd rather, if I may, just sort of start at the beginning with Saibzada-Ferhan who was coming into this game. A lot of the buildup about this game was going to be the battle between Saib Saeb Zahahahaharan and Jaspreet Bhumra. Because Saib Zahahahahah memorably took him to task in the Asia Cup last year, became one of the first battered to really dominate Jasprey Bumra. There was a lot of buildup about that on our coverage. We had Nagaraj who was talking about that as well.

And then it never came to fruition because sort of ball, after facing three dot balls, he seemed to just crumble under pressure, played this sort of wild cross-battered shots, you know, easy catch. And he was dismissed early. Pakistan immediately on the back foot. Salman Aliaga did something similar. Saima Yu was sort of trapped by Justbreed Bumra. Just marginally, I sort of have a little bit more sympathy

to Simon Yu because you got a very good ball. But a lot of the other shots were born out of compensation. And I feel like, again, this goes back to two things. One, they let India get too many runs, and they knew it. And they felt like they had to compensate for that with a really strong start in the power player statement start that included lots of boundaries and things like that. They played high-risk shots and really, frankly,

a couple of brainless shots. there as well that put them in a horrible position where they were four down and their top four couldn't make it into double figures the second part of that for me is this whole the psychological hold that i got into just before those uh post-match interviews that india have over bachistan in those key moments if you go back to 2022 Pakistan had that game in hand and let it go uh if you go back to 2024 in new york where Pakistan were really close to winning they dismissed india their target was 120 a runner ball you'd back them to score you'd back most teams to score that but they just crumbled under that pressure. There's something about playing India at the moment that just

affects Pakistan on a psychological level. It does not allow them to play their best cricket. I mean, maybe that's the difference between the two sides and the way that they've developed over the last couple of decades. You know, in the IPL, these Indian players face these scenarios on a regular basis where they're being tested, where they're put under intense pressure, where they're in front of massive crowds, and, you know, the scrutiny level is very high. Pakistan on the other hand don't have anything like that they do have the PSL but the scrutiny isn't anywhere near the level of IPR and some would argue that the level isn't really on the same

scale either I just feel like right now there's definitely a skill gap like India is undoubtedly the best team in the world favourites for this tournament defending champions and all that jazz we all know that but Pakistan should have performed better than that they did not play anywhere near their potential because had they done they would have made this at the very least a close game. They just crumbled under pressure. By the time, Osman Khan was putting his runs

on with Shadab Khan, and I thought he batted really well as well because he was coming into this game again. A lot of scrutiny. Waja Nafi is sort of breathing down his neck for a spot in the first 11, but I think he batted quite well, showed a lot of composure, but he too eventually, there was a ball with his name on him, Aksha Patel, turning one

past him, beautiful stumping from Ishan Kishan. I mean, it was quite telling that he hasn't played very often against India before, and he didn't have the same amount of pressure but a lot of these players are coming off regular losses to India, three in the Asia Cup last year,

in the previous World Cup. They've only beaten them once before. That was when Barbara and Rizwan secured a 10-wicket win for Pakistan. Well, Rizwan's not there anymore. Shaheen doesn't look like the same Shaheen who was famously described as a bowler that India cannot play.

That Shaheen looks like a million miles away from the Shaheen we've seen today who looks short on confidence. We saw him go down, get some strapping on his knee, He didn't look ultra-mobile in the field either. I don't know if there's something going on with him in terms of the fitness element. Pakistan just did not play as well as we know they could and made it relatively straightforward for a very strong Indian team.

We were always favourites. You've mentioned a very strong Indian team. Alex, they were good today. I didn't think they were at their best, and yet they've still won by a considerable margin. They put Rinku Singh on to bowl. Yeah, that was weird. That was...

Yeah, I wasn't quite sure that I really liked that particularly. No. Because they still had overs as their from, but they'll argue they're trying to save them. Yeah, that was like when like Alistair Cook used to ball in a test match or whatever, you go, what's going on? Why? It felt a bit like that. But I guess... Sorry, Cookie.

Yes, sorry. Did pick up a wicket. But back to my original point. They won convincingly today and they got so much left in the tank. We've only had, what, three overs from Varan Chukravati, only three overs from Cool Deep Yardov. two from one from two from

Bumra three from Hardick they didn't bat particularly well in the middle overs it was a brilliant

77 from his Shankishan that propelled them to that it just makes you think they are they look if they can

if they can beat Pakistan that well not playing that well they're going to be formidable back in India

of course and they are you know when you see them play they they dominate don't they they are the best

team in the world I think credit to India for adapting on that surface. You know, if, you know, players came out and saw the way Ishan Kishan-Kisham batted and said,

okay, we must get 240 here. We're absolutely flying, let's all go at it. Actually, the ball was turning, it was doing a little bit. So the way that the batters, when wickets fell, came out and said, actually, I'm struggling out here. I'm just going to knock the ball into the outfield. I'm going to rotate the strike

and just get six, seven, eight and over. And then if the ball's in my spot, then I'll hit it. I think that was really impressive. But again, India's, showing their strength, their depth, their adaptability. Yes, they are the best team in the world. But having said that, Pakistan let them get 15 or 20 runs too many,

like the captain just said at the post-match interview. If, I always said at the halfway stage, if Pakistan were chasing 160, it would have been a different game. You're listening to the TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live. If there was a big rent button that would just demolish the internet, I would smash that button with my forehead. From the BBC, this is the interface, the show that explores how tech is rewiring your week and your world.

This isn't about quarterly earnings or about tech reviews. It's about what technology is actually doing to your work, your politics, your everyday life, and all the bizarre ways people are using the internet. Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts. England are back in action on Monday, playing their last game in the group stage, they will need to beat Italy to ensure qualification for the Super 8. But the Italians come into the match in good form after recording a brilliant 10-wicket win against Nepal.

Commentary on 5 Sports Extra and BBC sounds on 9.15am and Henry Moran will be leading our coverage from Kolkata. Well, here at Eden Gardens, it is the day before England take on Italy, a seemingly unimaginable cricketing fixture. But it's a game in Group C that have significant meaning for the future of England's campaign. Certainly, lose and they're all but out. Victory will assure their passage through to the Super 8th. An Italy side who can't be taken lightly as well, they thrash Nepal in a really thrilling run chase by 10 wickets thanks to the efforts of two brothers who may have been born in Sydney but make no mistake.

They are very much Italian by heritage. as so many of this Italian side are. Many live in Italy and almost all have Italian grandparents or parents. Justin Mosca and Anthony Mosca born in Sydney, but with Italian family together in the middle with a record-breaking partnership as they chased down 124 against a Nepal side, who of course ran England very close. Now Justin is a PE teacher, Anthony, a carpenter who teaches woodwork at a juvenile detainal.

attention centre and I caught up with the two brothers on the boundary edge at Eden Gardens. You couldn't wipe the smile off their faces. And I began by asking them about the success of Italy's cricketers who have won as many games in a cricket world cup as the footballers have in a football world cup in the last two decades. It was obviously a good day for Italy cricket, but the bowler set the tone at the start for the batters. And then obviously we knew the power play was going to be a pivotal. play a pivotal role in the win, so to speak.

Fortunately enough, we happened to come off and then we were able just to get the job done. Anyway, a new battle to come in on that week, it would have been hard for them to start, so it was crucial that we went on and done it ourselves. It seemed like an incredible performance, given what Nepal had done against England. Did you see it coming?

I don't know if I saw that coming. I mean, cricket's a funny game, though. Like, if you have a look three days before things with a complete other end of the spectrum for us as a team. But for it to turn around that quickly, it just goes to show how things can turn. Yeah, I didn't see that performance coming, but I definitely had full faith in us

as a team in being far better than we were in the first game, and that showed out there which was good. It's an incredible story, Italian cricket, and something I think 10 years ago would have seemed almost fairy tale. Talk us through your journey, you two, as cricketers born and raised in Sydney but with Italian

heritage. Is that that? right? Yeah that's correct. Obviously growing up, the Australian culture was was a part of our grandparents' life when they, when they migrated to Sydney and our parents' lives. So, you know, but they also brought a lot of Italian culture with them. So obviously on our street was, was, there was a lot of Italians there, and we always had a lot of functions and our cousins would come over and we'd be watching the football and, you know, we'd walk around with Italian jerseys and we go to Italian restaurants and have coffees and then on the other end, We'd be having a VB or we would be going on cricket and watching cricket and watching boxing day test and watching Ponting go and Brett Lee and McGraw.

So we had the best of both worlds there and obviously our passion comes from the Italian side and maybe the cricket ability comes from the Aussie side. It's a good mix. And Andrea Piro, posting messages. Christian Vieeria. I mean, it's amazing some of the names that have got involved in there. Yeah, it's been incredible a couple of weeks. In our prep before coming here, we're in Dubai and we actually bumped into Mario Ballot. and Maldini at the airport.

So just to even be in any of their company is being amazing. So we've been quite fortunate to cross paths with a few of the greats of Italian history. So yeah. Were they aware of what you guys were doing? I know Vieri is. I'm not so sure about Balotelli and Maldini. Their response was a little bit different. But with a bit of luck, you know, that's the aim of this side to try to get some awareness around Italy in general.

in general because you know there's plenty of opportunity there to grow this sport in that country and like I've said many times before Italy is such a passionate country with everything they do with a bit more eyes on the game hopefully it expands a bit more for us apparently on the back pages as well I mean it really is cutting through that's obviously something something small that can go a long way to to increasing Italy's cricket community and getting it getting onto a bigger stage in Italy it's obviously growing now but we want to get to a little bit further and get us on the world map more so than what it is. Because there's a bit of a sense sometimes with teams in World Cups that you've got players

that maybe expats that are going over and representing through quite tenuous heritage. But alone of your team live in Italy and train in Italy. Yeah, that's another part of this experience that's been a bit different. Like we cop a fair bit of flack around, whether it's right or wrong, it's up to those people that make those calls. But we do have a lot of the boys that have sacrificed so much that live there for a better life and they've grown there and they've learnt their trade through Italy. That doesn't seem to get highlighted as much, but at the end of the day, we, in our group of

circle, in our circle, we know our heritage, our culture, we know where we're from, so that's all that matters at the end of the day. And let's not forget, this is an England team with three players that were raised in Barbados, so, you know, it's easy to make, it's easy to make accusations, of course. And what am I hearing about Andrea Bacheli on the team bus on the way home from Matching? Yeah, it's probably one of my favourite songs. And I reckon there was a few of us that I introduced that song probably a year and a half to two years ago into a team drive. We'll go on a train and I think and we put it on.

Obviously, Ed Sheeran's a legend. And then when the Italian version come on into that second verse was like, wow, this is amazing. So that becomes our sort of victory song when we're on the bus now. So, or even before the games, to be honest, we put that song on. put that song on and we seem to switch on a little bit when that comes on because it's obviously a beautiful song and two legends singing it so yeah no it's it plays a role in all our hearts in this squad go off yeah now i had a bit of a different taken i remember vaguely uh in our first tour for england actually sitting in the karaoke bar in finland and um a j and harry mannanti actually got

up on stage and that was the song they sung at about three o'clock in the morning so from there it sort of came into the yeah into the dress room it is awesome like it's one of the great experiences. I think the best one we've done so far was actually a pretty good one the other night. But when we qualified in Netherlands, that team bus was, it was an incredible moment. Yeah, with a bit of luck, we'll get Bacheli out here one day. And so how much of the sort of Italian culture pervades this team on a day-to-day basis from what you guys are doing? Don't worry about that, man. There's a lot of blokes in your side that can eat. So I've got a lot of guys that can eat. Everyone in your squad loves their coffee.

And almost, I reckon I'd say 99% of us, bar one or two, you. use our hands a lot when we talk. So when we're, if we're in, if we're having a disagreement with each other or something and then there's hands waving everywhere. And, uh, but no, we are, we know, it's a big role for us as a group that the reason for doing this is for each other and our family.

So automatically our culture is instilled into this group. So when we talk, when I talk to Grant, Grant Stewart's another one. When I talk to Grant, it's, everything in there does is just for his family and his culture. And that's it. There's no, no two ways about it. no personal ego, there's nothing that we want to get for a personal aculate, whatever it is.

It's just everything's for the team and to give back to our families that gave us this opportunity. That's the number one rule. You mentioned the Menenties. It's another big link. And guys are part of your cricketing journey. Yeah, absolutely. They're two of our great mates and the beauty of sporties you meet different people. But, you know, they're really close mates of some of our best mates that we met through cricket.

And they're absolute beauties. Like, we're a bit older than both the Menenties. and to see where they've come in their own careers is very inspiring for us as well. I remember Benny Fonley from when he first played his first grade game of cricket, the work ethic he's had. They're great boys, great people with a great family

and we're very lucky to have done this with them. If you spend a couple minutes around us, you'll probably question yourself as to how we're friends because the language that gets thrown around. Not that very kind, but the boys, they're absolute beauties and entities, It's very special to be able to share these moments with them. Shared a lot of special ones, not even just on the cricket field, outside in life in general,

but this is right up there. What would it mean if you could do something spectacular against England? What would it mean? Obviously, it would mean the world as it would, but we can't think too far ahead. We've got to stick to our processes, and if we do that, we've prepared well. If we do that, we know we can give it a good nudge. We know obviously the quality England brings to cricket.

If they're not the best in the world, then they're up there. But we've got to back our skill sets. And if we do that, then as I said, we'll go close. But it would mean a lot. And I reckon it would definitely put us up there on the world stage in cricket if that happened. Yeah, no, I think he said spoke pretty well. They're like it's obviously going to be a massive achievement if we can get the job done. We're under no illusions that, you know, the difference in, you know,

so it's both standard, like they're full-time cricketers. they do this for a living, but we're very confident we can match them. It's just about putting that into action. So while we know it's going to be a tough challenge, we'll be putting our best foot forward, that's for sure. And Andrea Baccelli might get a heck of an outing. If you do get the job done, I'd want to build that team, Bust. Yeah, he follows cricket, doesn't he? I'm pretty sure he follows cricket.

So if he does, I might have to send him a message just asking for a couple of tickets and maybe I can get on stage with him. Actually, no, I've been a great voice. Yeah, I'll have to meet him one day. Either him where Ed Sheeran on the bus will be perfect at the end of the day. I know I feel the, I know Bethel from the English side, so I might even get him to jump in and he can experience the moment. Thank you, boys.

Thank you very much. Cheers. Thanks, Stainter and Moran, for that 9.30am, Monday morning on Sports Extra for England against Italy. That's where you can hear every ball of that game. That's it for this episode at the TMS podcast. Make sure you're subscribed so you never miss an episode. And keep up with all the latest from the men's T20 World Cup on the BBC Sport app. website. But for now, from Columbo, it's goodbye.

The TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live. If there was a big rent button that would just demolish the internet, I would smash that button with my forehead. From the BBC, this is the interface, the show that explores how tech is rewiring your week and your world. This isn't about quarterly earnings or about tech reviews. It's about what technology is actually doing to your work, your politics, your everyday life, and all the bizarre ways people are using the internet. Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts.